Face the Nation: Turner, Cruz, panel on Iran

[0:04] We're joined now by Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Congressman, you are on the Armed [0:11] Services Committee. I know you've been in contact with the administration to understand what is [0:15] going on. The ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner, was briefed [0:22] by Secretary Rubio, and he is calling this Warner is a war of choice. He said there was no evidence [0:28] of imminent harm to Americans or an imminent threat to our country. Were you informed of a [0:34] specific and imminent threat to the United States? Well, this issue of imminent is really [0:38] this fallacy that comes from the Obama administration's nuclear weapons, nuclear enrichment negotiations, [0:46] where the Obama administration and the JCPOA set up this fallacy that we were just going to set up [0:54] cameras and watch Iran do this nuclear enrichment until they got all the way to a nuclear weapon, [1:01] and then they were going to kick to the next administration whether or not there was going [1:04] to be a military conflict, which is what we've come down to. It was a pretty detailed international [1:09] accord with stages. There were parts at sunset. But this concept of imminent, I mean, as we just saw [1:15] from the international... Well, that's separate from imminent threat to justify U.S. military [1:20] No, but it's not because it goes to really this inherent policy that we see [1:25] that has a thread that's come through the Democrat side that we still see from the Democratic Obama [1:32] administration's policies of what is imminent. Imminent here really is that the Iranian regime continues to [1:41] be a sponsor of terrorism and an amassing of missiles and inventory where they have declared themselves [1:54] an enemy of the United States and of our allies, where they've committed themselves to nuclear enrichment [2:01] and refused to declare themselves as not pursuing a nuclear weapon and have... They said they weren't. [2:06] Well, actually, they have not. As we have seen, even just last year, we had the head of the [2:14] International Atomic Energy Agency saying that they were just mere months away from being able to [2:18] have several nuclear warheads. So this imminent issue, this imminent issue is one where people want [2:27] to have them be with their hand almost on the button to something that has been completely assembled. [2:33] In this instance, the administration has declared that they had information and imminent aspect of that [2:41] that Iran was a threat both to us and to Israel, our ally, and had the opportunity to take [2:51] an action to eliminate that threat. That's important. We don't have to wait. [2:56] Sorry, which threat? [2:57] We don't have to wait. Because the president said the nuclear threat was obliterated. [3:01] And none of the nuclear sites have been... No, no. He said that at those sites that we had taken [3:05] action to eliminate, where there are nuclear enrichment sites, that we had obliterated those sites. [3:10] But they had continued to amass missile technology and missile inventory. They had continued, [3:16] had been declared to pursue their intention of nuclear enrichment. They had continued... [3:27] Rubio said they weren't enriching. [3:29] They had continued their intention to pursue nuclear enrichment. They had said and declared that they [3:34] were going to do that. Their programs had not been completely abolished and their intention had not [3:40] been abolished. They remained a threat. And the fact that we had the ability to intervene, that [3:50] imminence is incredibly important. This standard of what is imminent, I mean, you... [3:55] Well, people want to know why. Why now? That's why I'm asking. [3:59] Because the opportunity is there to eliminate an imminent threat that is an imminent threat to the [4:04] United States and our operations and in the area and our ally. [4:08] I want to ask you about another standoff between the Pentagon and Anthropic, which is the only AI [4:16] company whose products are used in classified systems for things like target ID, intel assessments, [4:21] and battlefield simulations. This morning, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that their AI [4:27] was in fact used in these operations, even though Secretary Hegseth and Trump ordered it to be cut [4:32] off due to this contractual dispute over the use of the model. Anthropic's CEO told CBS in an exclusive [4:38] interview that it is up to Congress to act here, to really create clarity as to how AI can be used. [4:47] It's clearly essential if the Pentagon's still using it in this operation. Will Congress act here? [4:52] I mean, you know, this is something that they're going to have to deal with and come to Congress [4:56] before. Obviously, in this particular circumstances, I'm unaware of this particular issue. This is going [5:04] to have to be something that is going to have to be dealt with in more detail than obviously an interview [5:09] on CBS. Can I ask you, in that targeting of the Supreme Leader that Senator Cotton talked about, [5:17] did the U.S. carry out that strike? Well, I think this is very important. [5:21] What's very clear here, and I think this is important to discuss, you know, the President [5:27] of the United States indicated that we were targeting the military, military infrastructure, [5:33] and not the regime and not regime change. And yesterday, when I had the opportunity to talk to [5:39] Secretary Rubio, you know, I asked that question, and he was very clear in the answer that we did not [5:44] not target Khomeini, and we were not targeting the leadership in Iran. So the aspect of that the [5:59] United States was not undertaking regime change is very important. Our aspect of what the President [6:05] of the United States has undertaken was this imminent threat that he described in his announcement. And [6:11] and that, I think, his response and his statement to the United States is an important aspect. [6:19] But just to be clear, you're not saying that Israel carried out that strike without the U.S. [6:23] permission, green lighting, buy-in? You know, the fact that Khomeini has been a murderous authoritarian, [6:32] who has killed an unbelievable number of Israelis. They have an absolutely, I think, a strong basis [6:41] in which to do so. And I think it certainly shows that if you're a murderous authoritarian, [6:46] and you are, and you, that you're at risk, and you're, it's better to be a friend of the United [6:52] States than a murderous authoritarian. You know, it's also interesting that Putin just said that he lost, [6:57] speaking of murderous dictators. That he lost a friend in, in, in losing Khomeini. And we, [7:04] we certainly didn't see Khomeini as a friend. We will leave it there. Congressman Turner, [7:09] we'll be back in a moment with more Face the Nation. We go now to Texas Republican Senator Ted Cruz, [7:18] who joins us from Austin. Good morning to you, Senator. I'm glad we got your audio working. [7:23] You are from Houston, I believe, this morning. I am. Good morning, Margaret. Good morning. I wanted to ask [7:28] you about Austin though, because there are reports of three people dead, more than a dozen injured [7:34] following a mass shooting in that city. The FBI is saying this morning that their Joint Terrorism Task [7:40] Force has joined the investigation. Is there any nexus to terrorism or anything that is going on in regard [7:49] to the, the worldwide caution at this moment? We don't know for sure. There are some early reports [7:58] that this shooting may be connected to terrorism, but we need to follow the evidence and see, [8:03] see in particular what motivated the shooting. We are certainly, Heidi and I are praying [8:08] for those who were wounded and the families of those who were killed. But, but at this point, [8:14] we don't know what the evidence will show in terms of whether this was an act of terrorism. [8:18] We'll continue to follow those, those early reports. But Senator, just looking at the, [8:23] the global environment right now, CENTCOM announced three Americans were killed and five seriously [8:29] wounded in this operation. President Trump and President, Vice President Vance campaigned on [8:35] not getting America involved in new wars. What do you say to Americans this morning who are asking [8:41] why we are in this conflict now? President Trump's decision to launch this decisive action against Iran [8:50] is the single most important decision of his presidency. I think he laid out powerfully and effectively [8:56] why he is taking this action. He is taking this action because the government of Iran is a profound [9:03] and malign influence. They have been the leading state sponsor of terrorism for 47 years. [9:10] Mm-hmm. They have over that time killed nearly 1000 Americans. They provide more than 90% of the funding [9:21] for Hamas. They provide more than 90% of the funding for Hezbollah. The Iranian Ayatollah was, [9:28] until yesterday, actively trying to murder the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. [9:35] I spent the entire day with President Trump on Friday, right before he launched these attacks. He and I [9:41] discussed this at length on Friday. My counsel to him was that the Iranian regime has never been weaker, [9:48] that it was teetering. And now was the time. My advice was, do not miss this opportunity. I think the [9:57] president has acted boldly. He's acted decisively. And Iran no longer being led by a theocratic, [10:07] murderous dictator. That makes America much, much safer. Senator, you are not going to find a lot [10:15] of people in any way defending the Supreme Leader. That is for sure. However, putting Americans in harm [10:21] way is what I'm pressing you on here. Did the president explain to you why he called off active [10:30] diplomacy? Because at the very same time he was on that plane, the vice president of the United States [10:36] was talking to the Omani mediator who was trying to get a deal and told us that they were close to one. [10:41] Why not choose diplomacy? Because the diplomacy was an abject failure. The Iranians approached the [10:49] diplomacy with arrogance, which with absolute hubris, they said they would not stop enriching. No [10:57] matter what, they were going to continue to enrich uranium. They would not discuss zero enrichment. [11:03] They claimed a right to enrich uranium in underground bunkers with no supervision. [11:10] As president Trump said on Friday, when he was with me in Texas, his line was zero enrichments. [11:17] And the Iranians refused to discuss it. They also refused to discuss their proxies. They refused to [11:22] discuss Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis. And President Trump understood that the Iranian, [11:29] quote, negotiation was just a stall tactic. And that the only response, my advice to him, [11:36] I said, there's only one deal you should accept. And it's the deal that you offered Maduro, [11:42] which is if you want to leave and flee the country, you can do so. Anything else [11:47] is unacceptable. And Khamenei made his choice. Well, there's disputes there in terms of your [11:54] characterization of what was actually on the table and what the administration had indicated it was [12:00] willing to accept in terms of allowing enrichment for medical purposes and the like. But that's now [12:05] obviously done. So, Margaret, what I just told you, what I just told you is almost word for word [12:12] what Secretary of State Marco Rubio told me yesterday. Can you tell us now, [12:17] if you believe that there was an ongoing nuclear weapons program? One of the top arms control, [12:25] arms control experts out there, David Albright has written, there should be an immediate priority on [12:29] rapid response operations to secure Iran's nuclear stockpiles right now. Can you assure the public [12:37] that it will be secured? And if so, who is doing it if there are no Israeli or US forces on the ground? [12:43] So, there is no doubt that a year ago, Iran had an active and ongoing nuclear weapons program. [12:50] We took out the vast majority of that at the end of the 12-day war. [12:55] That US intelligence assessment was not made public, if that is what was briefed to you. [12:59] We took out, we launched targeted bombs at the end of the 12-day war, where we dropped the equivalent of [13:07] about a third of a nuclear weapon on those underground facilities, facilities like Fordo, [13:13] which was built into the base of a mountain. The bunker buster bombs we used, Israel doesn't have [13:19] those bombs. No other country has those bombs. We took them out last year. The Iranians were still [13:27] hell-bent on rebuilding them. And one of the things we are doing right now is taking out their missiles, [13:33] in particular, the Southern Missile Belt. Right now, Iran is building roughly 100 missiles a month. [13:39] They are actively building missiles to threaten their neighbors. [13:43] They're firing some of them right now at their neighbors, at our allies. [13:47] They're illustrating powerfully. They're attacking virtually every Arab neighbor that surrounds them. [13:53] They are firing missiles at. It's almost like they want to illustrate to the world just how malign they are. [14:00] But in terms of containing the risk, who's securing the nuclear material that you say [14:04] still exists within Iran? Who's doing that? [14:06] Look, the quantity of nuclear material, I didn't say anything one way or another on that. What I said [14:14] is they were building nuclear weapons a year ago and our bombing took that out. They also had an [14:20] ongoing desire to rebuild them. I don't have present day intelligence on what progress they had made [14:28] towards rebuilding nuclear weapons since we bombed their facilities. I have no indication that they [14:35] were anywhere close to getting nuclear weapons because our bombing was devastating. And Margaret, [14:40] that's one of the reasons I urged President Trump, now is the time. Dictatorships survive because [14:48] they're perceived as invulnerable. And in this instance, Iran decisively lost the 12-day war that [14:55] weakened the regime and set up what the president is doing now. [14:59] Senator Ted Cruz, we have to leave it there for today. Thank you for joining us. We'll be right [15:03] back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us. We're joined now by Iran policy analyst Karim [15:12] Sajipour, who is with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, as well as former CENTCOM [15:17] commander and CBS News contributor retired general Frank McKenzie, who joins us from Tampa this morning. [15:23] It's good to have the both of you here. This is such a dynamic situation right now. Karim, [15:30] I want to start with you. Apparently, President Trump has told The Atlantic that he's willing to [15:33] talk to the new leadership of Iran. Who is the new leadership of Iran? [15:37] I don't think that's even clear inside Tehran, who is the new leadership. You know, this is one of the [15:42] most unpopular regimes in the world. And I'm skeptical that there's going to be anyone who is palatable [15:50] for both the senior clergy, the Revolutionary Guards, and 90 million Iranians. There's probably [15:56] no government in the world with a greater gap between its government and its people than Iran. [16:01] So I'm skeptical there's going to be any single figure who can immediately fill the enormous void [16:07] of Ayatollah Khamenei. General McKenzie, what Karim is sketching out here sounds like chaos. [16:14] It sounds like the potential setting for civil war. Is that how you would assess what we might be seeing [16:19] come next? I think we're still in the early stages of this campaign. There are several days of continued [16:26] strikes ahead of us from central command and from Israel to reduce the Iranian ability to volley fire [16:33] rockets at us. We'll see how that progresses in the next few days. The leadership targets have clearly [16:38] had an effect. And I believe the loss of Iranian effective national level command and control is [16:44] going to have a pernicious effect on their ability to wage this war. As to what might follow, [16:48] whether it's civil war, a fractured state, don't know. Actually, for me, it's hard to see how it [16:54] could be worse than what we had before. General, you know this morning we have CENTCOM acknowledging [17:02] at least three American deaths, five seriously wounded. These are just the opening hours, [17:09] but it does appear that the situation is only escalating. What should the American people be [17:16] prepared for? The American people should be prepared for several more days of exchanges, [17:21] of long-range rockets. We're going to continue to strike them with our aircraft, with our T-LAMs, [17:27] our Tomahawk land attack missiles. And the essential calculus over the next 72 to 96 hours, Margaret, [17:33] is going to be whether or not we can reduce the Iranian ability to generate volleys. And by volleys, [17:39] I mean groups of missiles that are fired at our bases in the region. It's hard for them to generate a [17:44] lot of missiles at Israel because of the range and just for various reasons. But what we want to do [17:49] is we don't want them to let them fire large numbers of rockets at Al-Yadid Air Base, for example, [17:54] Al-Dafra Air Base, or the cities of our friends in the region, which they have done indiscriminately. [18:00] So that's going to be a key thing to watch over the next 72 to 96 hours. CENTCOM has planned for this [18:05] for years. We're probably going to take more casualties. I think the president's comments [18:11] actually were spot on when he warned the American people that this wasn't going to be, [18:15] it wasn't going to be a cakewalk. I think he knows that. And I, but I think, you know, [18:19] we're probably going to have more casualties before this is over. I hope we can certainly minimize those. [18:23] And I know that our commanders in the region are doing everything they can to keep those numbers down. [18:28] We have seen already some civilian casualties in some of those Gulf states who are taking the incoming. [18:33] Kareem, the president, you've heard all of our Republican guests say that the president laid [18:40] this all out very clearly. What I heard that eight minute video was a recitation of 50 years of [18:47] Iran's malicious activities, everything from the bombing of the Marine barracks in 1983 by Hezbollah, [18:53] the taking over the embassy, all sorts of different things. He even linked the attack on the naval [18:59] destroyer in Yemen to Iran, even though it's often attributed to Al-Qaeda. It was just sort of [19:05] an argument, Iran is bad. We haven't necessarily gotten the detail on the immediate threat to the [19:10] United States. You've been watching this so closely. When the president said at the end of his video [19:16] that the Iranian people should rise up, is there any chance that the Iranian people can do that? [19:21] That is a possibility, Margaret. As I said, this is an incredibly unpopular regime. I think they [19:27] probably have at best 15 support. At the moment, the Iranian people are spectators, not yet [19:33] participants. President Trump also implored them to initially stay home for the next few days, [19:38] as it's unsafe, and then to seize their institutions. And so I think people are watching very carefully [19:45] to see if there are any splits within the regime. But, you know, they say about dictatorships that [19:51] they're most murderous at the beginning of the reign and at the end of the reign. And we saw this regime [19:59] massacre potentially tens of thousands of people last month. And the question is whether they still [20:05] have that coercive and cohesive security forces to continue to do the same. [20:10] Yeah, we're listening there and seeing some audio from celebrations among some people at the news of [20:16] the Ayatollah's death. You have written, and I thought this was pretty eloquent, Ayatollah Khamenei lived by [20:24] death to America and death to Israel. He died by death from America and Israel. What does this mean [20:31] for the Islamic Republic to have him gone? He was the longest serving dictator in the world for four [20:37] decades. He reigned over Iran. For most Iranians, three quarters of whom were born after the 1979 [20:42] revolution, he was the only ruler they ever knew. And I think this is a society, I would describe it as [20:49] perhaps the most secular society in the Muslim Middle East, perhaps the most pro-American society [20:55] in the Middle East. And people, Iranians recognize they'll never fulfill their enormous potential as [21:00] a nation, so long as the ethos of their government is death to America and death to Israel. And so [21:05] there's an enormous demand for a government which is perhaps not democratic, but puts national interest [21:13] before revolutionary ideology. General McKenzie, very quickly, have you heard an end game? How does [21:18] America declare victory here? Well, first of all, Margaret, we need to have an end game in view, [21:25] but we shouldn't be thinking about an off ramp right now. We need to think about continuing to [21:29] impose our will on the enemy and continuing this fight at a very high level. Yes, there's an end game. [21:34] And for me, at least, an end game would be either you get a regime that you can negotiate with, [21:38] a new regime. That may be unlikely, but our history of predicting regime changes in the Middle East of [21:44] totalitarian states is uniformly poor. The other alternative is you get some kind of successor [21:50] state that you might be able to cut a deal with while it may be unpalatable in some dimensions. Nonetheless, [21:55] you may get a regime that's going to talk to you about the nuclear program or the ballistic missile [21:59] program. So I think there is an end state in view. We will watch for it, General McKenzie. Kareem, [22:05] thank you for your time. And thank you all for watching. Until next week, and it's been a busy one, [22:11] for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.