Marco Rubio, Sen. Chris Van Hollen and more

[0:01] I'm Margaret Brennan, and this week on Face the Nation, the Trump administration stages [0:06] a dramatic, top-secret mission in Venezuela and captures its leader, dictator Nicolas Maduro. [0:12] But what's the U.S. role going forward? We'll talk to Secretary of State Marco Rubio. [0:19] Nicolas Maduro is now in a Brooklyn jail facing drug trafficking charges after being captured [0:26] by the Army's elite U.S. Delta Force as part of a massive U.S. military operation early Saturday [0:32] that reportedly killed at least 40 Venezuelans. [0:36] And it was an assault like people have not seen since World War II. No nation in the world could [0:44] achieve what America achieved yesterday or, frankly, in just a short period of time. [0:50] The mission was months in the planning, but executed in just under three hours. [0:56] What's next? [0:57] We'll find out. [0:57] But it will take much longer as questions about the legality and justification of the [1:02] strikes continue, as well as how and who will rule Venezuela going forward. [1:07] We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious [1:14] transition. [1:15] In addition to Secretary of State Rubio, we'll also hear from Senate Intelligence Committee [1:20] Chair Tom Cotton and the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman [1:25] Jim Himes. [1:26] Plus, Maryland [1:27] Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen will also be here. [1:31] It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. [1:48] Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. [1:51] Americans woke up yesterday to the shocking news that the U.S. had staged a massive air attack on [1:58] the capital of Venezuela and captured Nicolas Maduro. Today, we'll explore questions about [2:04] what it means for the U.S. and why it's such a seismic development. We begin today with Secretary [2:11] of State Marco Ramos. [2:12] We begin today with Secretary of State Marco Ramos, who joins us this morning from Miami. [2:15] Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary. [2:18] Good morning. [2:19] Good morning. [2:20] President Trump said that the United States will run the country and that Venezuela will [2:25] be largely run by, he pointed to you and some of the other Cabinet members when he spoke [2:31] to the public yesterday. [2:33] He said the U.S. retains all military options, including boots on the ground, until U.S. [2:39] demands have been fully met. [2:41] How do you plan to run the country? [2:43] Well, first of all, I think it's going to be a very, very successful campaign. [2:43] I think it's going to be a very, very successful campaign. [2:43] I think it's going to be a very, very successful campaign. [2:43] I think it's going to be a very, very successful campaign. [2:46] I think it's going to be a very, very successful campaign. [2:46] Well, first of all, I think the important thing to point out is that the key to what that regime [2:51] relies on is the economy fueled by oil. And right now, it is an oil industry that is backwards and [2:58] really needs a lot of help and work in terms of it. Not only that, but it doesn't help the people. [3:02] None of the money from the oil gets to the people. It's all stolen by the people that are on the top [3:06] there. And so that's why we have a quarantine. There's a quarantine right now in which sanctioned [3:11] oil shipments, there's a boat, and that boat is under U.S. sanctions. We go get a court order, [3:15] we will seize it. That remains in place. And that's a tremendous amount of leverage that [3:19] will continue to be in place until we see changes that not just further the national [3:23] interest of the United States, which is number one, but also that lead to a better future for [3:28] the people of Venezuela. And so that's the sort of control the president is pointing to when he [3:32] says that. We continue with that quarantine, and we expect to see that there will be changes, [3:37] not just in the way the oil industry is run for the benefit of the people, but also so that they [3:42] stop the drug trafficking, so that we no longer have these gang problems, [3:45] so that they kick the FARC and the ELN out, and that they no longer cozy up to Hezbollah and Iran [3:50] in our own hemisphere. [3:52] What you are talking about is more of a sanctions pressure, not boots on the ground. So just to be [3:58] clear, there is no plan for U.S. occupation of this country of nearly 30 million people? [4:06] Well, I think, first of all, the president always retains optionality on anything and on all of [4:10] these matters. He certainly has the ability and the right under the Constitution of the United [4:14] States to act against imminent and urgent threats against the country. [4:18] That said, and all of that said, right now, I think what you see is a force posture, [4:22] which is one of the largest naval deployments in modern history, certainly in the Western [4:27] Hemisphere. And it is capable of stopping not just drug boats, but stopping any of these [4:32] sanctioned boats that come in and out and really paralyzing that portion of how the regime [4:37] generates revenue. So that will continue to be in place. What the president has said, [4:42] obviously, is, and I think what he's pointing to is that this obsession people have about boots [4:47] and this or that. [4:48] He does not feel like he is going to publicly, you know, rule out options that are available for [4:53] the United States, even though that's not what you're seeing right now. What you're seeing right [4:57] now is an oil quarantine that allows us to exert tremendous leverage over what happens next. [5:03] Well, he also said the U.S. is ready to stage a second and much larger attack if we need to do so. [5:08] But I'm curious, because you just described the regime as still in place, essentially. I mean, [5:16] I'm curious why the Trump. [5:17] Administration decided to leave it intact and only arrest Nicholas Maduro and his wife, [5:24] the person who controls the police, the chief thug, Diaz Cabello. He's the interior minister. [5:31] He's been indicted by the United States. He was in that indictment the administration released. [5:35] He's a narco terrorist. There's a $25 million price on his head. He's still in place. The [5:41] defense minister, who has deep ties to Russia, $15 million price on his head. He is still in place. [5:47] I'm confused. Are they still wanted by the United States? Why didn't you arrest them if you are [5:54] taking out the narco terrorist regime? [5:57] You're confused. I don't know why that's confusing to you. [6:00] They're still in power. [6:01] I mean, it's very simple. You're not going to go in and wrap up. But yeah, but you can't go. You're [6:05] going to go in and suck up five people. They're already complaining about this one operation. [6:10] Imagine the howls we would have from everybody else if we actually had to go and stay there four [6:14] days to capture four other people. We got the top priority. [6:19] Number one person on the list was the guy who claimed to be the president of the country that [6:23] he was not. And he was arrested, along with his wife, who was also indicted. And that was a pretty [6:27] sophisticated and, frankly, complicated operation. It is not easy to land helicopters in the middle [6:33] of the largest military base in the country. The guy lived on a military base. Land within three [6:38] minutes, kick down his door, grab him, put him in handcuffs, read him his rights, put him in a [6:42] helicopter, and leave the country without losing any American or any American assets. That's not [6:47] an easy mission. And you're asking me, why didn't we do that? Why didn't we do that? Why didn't we do [6:49] that in five other places at the same time? I mean, that's absurd. I do think this is one of the [6:54] most, you know, daring, you know, complicated, sophisticated missions this country has carried [7:00] out in a very long time. Tremendous credit to the U.S. military personnel who did it. It was [7:05] unbelievable and tremendous success. And today, an indicted drug trafficker who was not the [7:11] legitimate president of Venezuela, who we don't recognize, the Biden administration didn't [7:15] recognize, 60-something countries don't recognize, the European Union doesn't recognize. [7:19] And many countries in Latin America don't recognize. He was a convicted, he was an indicted drug [7:24] trafficker. He was arrested. His wife was arrested, also indicted. Right. But the others, the others [7:29] who are also indicted are still in the American system of courts. The others who are also indicted [7:32] are still in place. So that's the point of my questioning there. But you talked about not being [7:39] the legitimate president. So you wanted us to land in five other military bases? No, I'm asking why [7:43] you chose that this was the limit of the military operation. But to your point that you just made, [7:49] that Maduro was not the legitimate president. He was the guy who was claiming to be the [7:53] president. Right. Well, the opposition. He was the top target. Okay. The opposition leader, [7:58] Maria Karina Machado and Mundo Gonzalez, won that 2024 election by your own account. They were some [8:05] of the first people you called when you were secretary of state. You said Mundo Gonzalez is [8:10] the rightful president of Venezuela. Is that still the U.S. policy? And if so, are you working on a [8:16] transition to have those elections? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:19] know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:20] know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:21] know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:24] know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:25] know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:26] know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [8:51] THINKS EVERYTHING IS LIBYA, EVERYTHING IS IRAQ, EVERYTHING IS AFGHANISTAN. [8:55] THIS IS NOT THE MIDDLE EAST. [8:57] AND OUR MISSION HERE IS VERY DIFFERENT. [8:58] THIS IS THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE. [9:00] WITHIN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, WE HAVE A COUNTRY, POTENTIALLY A VERY RICH COUNTRY, THAT HAS [9:05] COZIED ITSELF UP UNDER THE CONTROL OF THIS REGIME, HAS COZIED UP TO IRAN, HAS COZIED [9:10] UP TO HEZBELLA, HAS COZIED, HAS ALLOWED NARCO-TRAFFICKING GANGS TO OPERATE WITH IMPUNITY FROM THEIR [9:15] OWN TERRITORY, ALLOWS BOATS WITH DRUGS TO TRAFFIC FROM THEIR TERRITORY, AND WE ARE [9:19] ADDRESSING THAT. [9:20] AND, BY THE WAY, EIGHT, NINE MILLION PEOPLE IN THE LARGEST MASS MIGRATION EVENT IN MODERN [9:24] HISTORY HAVE LEFT THAT COUNTRY SINCE 2014, ALSO HAVING AN IMPACT ON US. [9:29] THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ADDRESSING NOW. [9:30] WHEN YOU SPOKE YESTERDAY— [9:32] WE'RE NOT JUST ADDRESSING THE REGIME. [9:34] WE ARE ADDRESSING THE FACTORS THAT ARE A THREAT TO THE NATIONAL INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES. [9:37] UNDERSTOOD. [9:38] WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH DELCY RODRIGUEZ, WHO IS NOW, ACCORDING TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, SWORN [9:42] IN AS THE PRESIDENT, AS THE LEADER OF VENEZUELA, DID SHE PROMISE YOU THAT SHE IS EXPELLING [9:49] ALL THOSE AMERICAN ADVERSARIES FROM VENEZUELAN TERRITORY? [9:52] WHAT EXACTLY DID SHE AGREE TO DO WHEN SHE SPOKE TO YOU? [9:57] WE ARE GOING TO— OUR OBJECTIVES WHEN IT COMES TO HOW VENEZUELA IMPACTS THE NATIONAL [10:03] INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES HAVE NOT CHANGED, AND WE WANT THOSE ADDRESSED. [10:06] WE WANT DRUG TRAFFICKING TO STOP. [10:08] WE WANT NO MORE GANG MEMBERS TO COME OUR WAY. [10:10] WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE IRANIAN AND, BY THE WAY, CUBAN PRESENCE IN THE PAST. [10:14] WE WANT THE OIL INDUSTRY IN THAT COUNTRY NOT TO GO TO THE BENEFIT OF PIRATES AND ADVERSARIES [10:18] OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE. [10:21] WE WANT TO SEE ALL OF THAT HAPPEN. [10:22] WE INSIST ON SEEING THAT HAPPEN. [10:23] DID SHE PROMISE THAT? [10:24] AND WE ARE GOING TO WORK TO CONTINUE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN. [10:27] WELL, RIGHT NOW, THE UNITED— WE ARE GOING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS MOVING FORWARD. [10:30] LET ME JUST SAY THAT. [10:31] I'M NOT OBVIOUSLY GOING TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS IN THE MEDIA. [10:33] THESE ARE DELICATE AND COMPLICATED THINGS THAT REQUIRE MATURE STATEMANSHIP, AND THAT'S [10:38] WHAT WE INTEND TO DO. [10:39] BUT OUR GOALS REMAIN THE SAME. [10:41] THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE PERSON WHO WAS IN CHARGE, EVEN THOUGH NOT LEGITIMATELY, IN [10:46] THE PAST WAS SOMEONE YOU COULD NOT WORK WITH. [10:48] WE JUST COULD NOT WORK WITH HIM. [10:50] HE IS NOT A PERSON THAT HAD EVER KEPT ANY OF THE DEALS HE MADE, BROKE EVERY DEAL HE [10:54] EVER MADE, MADE A FOOL OUT OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ON THE DEAL THEY MADE WITH HIM. [10:59] AND WE OFFERED HIM ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REMOVE HIMSELF FROM THE SCENE [11:03] IN A POSITIVE WAY. [11:04] HE CHOSE NOT TO DO SO. [11:05] BUT HIS NUMBER TWO IS NOW RUNNING THE COUNTRY. [11:08] HIS NUMBER TWO IS SOMEONE YOU CAN WORK WITH? [11:11] IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE IMPLYING HERE? [11:13] AND DID SHE TELL YOU THAT SHE WILL TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY? [11:17] AND THE WOMAN WHO WON THE ELECTION ALONG WITH HER PARTNER THERE, MARIA CORINA MACHADO? [11:24] WE ARE GOING TO MAKE OUR ASSESSMENTS OF PEOPLE. [11:27] YOU'RE ASKING ME TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT? [11:28] WE'RE GOING TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT ON THE BASIS OF WHAT THEY DO. [11:31] NOT WHAT THEY SAY PUBLICLY IN THE INTERIM, NOT WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE PAST IN MANY [11:36] COUNTRIES. [11:36] BUT WHAT THEY DO MOVING FORWARD. [11:38] SO WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT. [11:40] YOU'RE ASKING ME DO I KNOW WHAT DECISIONS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MAKE? [11:43] I DON'T. [11:44] I DO KNOW THIS, THAT IF THEY DON'T MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS, THE UNITED STATES WILL RETAIN [11:48] MULTIPLE LEVERS OF LEVERAGE TO ENSURE THAT OUR INTERESTS ARE PROTECTED. [11:52] AND THAT INCLUDES THE OIL QUARANTINE THAT'S IN PLACE, AMONG OTHER THINGS. [11:57] BUT WE ARE GOING TO JUDGE MOVING FORWARD. [11:59] WE'RE GOING TO JUDGE EVERYTHING BY WHAT THEY DO. [12:01] AND WE'RE GOING TO SEE WHAT THEY DO. [12:02] OKAY. [12:03] SO YESTERDAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID MARIA CORINA MACHADO DOESN'T HAVE THE SUPPORT OR [12:06] RESPECT WITHIN THE COUNTRY. [12:08] AND BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, SHE WALLOPED NICOLAS MADURO IN THE LAST ELECTION. [12:14] SO IT DOES SOUND LIKE A DECISION WAS MADE. [12:15] SHE WASN'T ON THE BALLOT IN THE LAST ELECTION. [12:17] NO, BUT HER PARTY WAS. [12:21] ADMUNDA WAS. [12:22] CORRECT. [12:23] YES. [12:24] IT WAS AN ILLEGITIMATE ELECTION. [12:25] AND THAT'S WHY HE'S NOT A LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT. [12:26] RIGHT. [12:27] BUT IS THERE AN AGREEMENT TO TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY? [12:29] IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S NOT. [12:30] I THINK WHAT'S POINTED OUT IS THE OBVIOUS. [12:35] THERE HAS TO BE A LITTLE REALISM HERE, OKAY? [12:36] A TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY. [12:38] THEY'VE HAD THIS REGIME, THEY'VE HAD THIS SYSTEM OF TRAVISMO IN PLACE FOR 15 OR 16 YEARS. [12:43] AND EVERYONE'S ASKING WHY 24 HOURS AFTER NICOLAS MADURO WAS ARRESTED THERE ISN'T AN ELECTION [12:47] SCHEDULED FOR TOMORROW? [12:48] THAT'S ABSURD. [12:49] NO, NO. [12:50] I'M ASKING WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT WITH HER. [12:51] THESE THINGS TAKE TIME. [12:52] THERE'S A PROCESS. [12:53] RIGHT. [12:54] AND YOU ARE... [12:55] I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO DETAILS ABOUT ANY OF THOSE THINGS OTHER THAN TO TELL YOU THAT [12:58] OUR EXPECTATIONS REMAIN THE SAME. [13:00] AND WE ARE GOING TO JUDGE WHOEVER WE'RE INTERACTING WITH MOVING FORWARD BY WHETHER OR NOT THOSE [13:04] CONDITIONS ARE MET. [13:05] WE WANT... [13:06] OF COURSE WE WANT TO SEE VENEZUELA TRANSITION TO BE A PLACE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT [13:10] IT LOOKS LIKE TODAY. [13:11] BUT OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T HAVE THE EXPECTATION THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 15 HOURS. [13:15] WHAT WE DO HAVE AN EXPECTATION IS THAT IT MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. [13:19] WE THINK IT'S IN OUR NATIONAL INTEREST AND FRANKLY IN THE INTEREST OF PEOPLE OF VENEZUELA. [13:22] THE PRESIDENT USED THE WORD OIL 20 TIMES AT THIS PRESS CONFERENCE. [13:26] YOU TALKED ABOUT THESE TREMENDOUS OIL ASSETS THAT VENEZUELA HAS. [13:31] BUT THE PRESIDENT'S LAST ENVOY TO VENEZUELA, ELIOT ABRAMS, IS PUBLICLY ARGUING THAT YOU [13:36] KNOW BETTER THAN THE POLICY YOU'RE BACKING. [13:40] HE SAID, QUOTE, VENEZUELAN PLUTOCRATS OR U.S. OIL EXECUTIVES SEEM TO BE COMING TO MAR-A-LAGO [13:45] AND WHISPERING ABOUT HOW EASY LIFE WOULD BE. [13:48] IF WE JUST MADE A DEAL WITH THE REGIME ONCE MADURO WAS GONE. [13:53] IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED HERE? [13:57] NO. [13:58] THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED HERE. [13:59] WHAT HAPPENED HERE IS THAT WE ARRESTED A NARCO TRAFFICKER WHO IS NOW GOING TO STAND TRIAL [14:03] IN THE UNITED STATES FOR THE CRIMES HE'S COMMITTED AGAINST OUR PEOPLE FOR 15 YEARS. [14:07] AND THE PERSON WHO HELPED HIM, OF COURSE, HIS WIFE WHO WAS CO-LOCATED WITH HIM, SO SHE [14:10] WAS ARRESTED AS WELL. [14:11] THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE. [14:12] AS FAR AS OIL, LOOK, OIL IS CRITICAL NOT JUST TO FUELING ECONOMIES ALL OVER THE WORLD. [14:17] IT'S CRITICAL TO VENEZUELA'S FUTURE. [14:19] THEIR OIL INDUSTRY IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED. [14:21] IT'S DESTROYED ALL THOSE OIL FIELDS THAT USED TO PRODUCE A LOT AND WEALTH FOR THEIR COUNTRY [14:25] AND THEIR PEOPLE. [14:26] THOSE THINGS ARE DECREPIT. [14:27] THEY'RE BANKRUPT. [14:28] THEY NEED TO BE REINVESTED IN. [14:29] IT'S OBVIOUS. [14:30] THEY DO NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO BRING UP THAT INDUSTRY AGAIN. [14:34] THEY NEED INVESTMENT FROM PRIVATE COMPANIES WHO ARE ONLY GOING TO INVEST UNDER CERTAIN [14:38] GUARANTEES AND CONDITIONS. [14:39] THAT HAS TO GO TO THE BENEFIT OF THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE. [14:42] RIGHT NOW, ALL OF THAT WEALTH IS STOLEN. [14:44] IT'S STOLEN AND IT GOES INTO THE HANDS OF OLIGARCHS AROUND THE WORLD AND THE OLIGARCHS [14:49] INSIDE OF VENEZUELA. [14:50] A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE BENEFIT FROM IT. [14:52] THE PEOPLE DON'T BENEFIT FROM IT. [14:53] ON TOP OF THAT, IT'S VERY SIMPLE. [14:56] IN THE 21ST CENTURY, UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A COUNTRY LIKE VENEZUELA [15:01] IN OUR OWN HEMISPHERE IN THE SPHERE OF CONTROL AND THE CROSSROADS FOR HEZBOLLAH, FOR IRAN, [15:06] AND FOR EVERY OTHER MALIGN INFLUENCE IN THE WORLD. [15:09] THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO EXIST. [15:10] LISA DESJARDINS MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE, WOULD LOVE TO KEEP TALKING TO YOU, [15:13] BUT I'M TOLD YOU ARE OUT OF TIME. [15:15] I HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE. [15:16] MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE, THANK YOU. [15:18] LISA DESJARDINS LATE YESTERDAY, CBS EVENING NEWS ANCHOR TONY DEKOPOL TALKED EXCLUSIVELY [15:23] WITH SECRETARY OF DEFENSE PETE HEGSETH AND ASKED WHAT THE PRESIDENT'S COMMENTS ABOUT [15:27] THE U.S. RUNNING VENEZUELA MEANT AND ASKED IF THE SECRETARY WAS PREPARED TO HAVE TROOPS [15:32] ON THE GROUND THERE. [15:34] WELL, IT MEANS WE SET THE TERMS, PRESIDENT TRUMP SETS THE TERMS, AND ULTIMATELY HE'LL [15:39] DECIDE WHAT THE ITERATIONS ARE OF THAT, BUT IT MEANS THE DRUGS STOP FLOWING. [15:45] IT MEANS THE OIL THAT WAS TAKEN FROM US IS RETURNED ULTIMATELY, AND THAT CRIMINALS ARE [15:50] NOT SENT TO THE UNITED STATES. [15:52] IT MEAN THAT FOREIGN COUNTRIES DON'T HAVE A LODGEMENT INSIDE OUR HEMISPHERE, SO ULTIMATELY [15:57] WE'RE GOING TO CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS NEXT BECAUSE OF THIS BRAVE DECISION. [16:01] PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SHOWN AMERICAN LEADERSHIP. [16:04] AND HE'LL BE OKAY. [16:04] WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DICTATE WHERE WE GO NEXT. [16:07] FACE THE NATION WILL BE BACK IN ONE MINUTE. [16:09] STAY WITH US. [16:14] WE'RE JOINED NOW BY THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, ARKANSAS REPUBLICAN [16:18] TOM COTTON. [16:19] GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, SENATOR. [16:20] THANKS, MARGARET. [16:21] YOU HAVE OVERSIGHT OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, WHICH WAS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THIS [16:25] OPERATION TO GO INTO VENEZUELA MILITARILY AND EXTRACT NICOLAS MADURO AND HIS WIFE. [16:33] DOES THE U.S. STILL ASSESS THAT THE REGIME IN VENEZUELA IS MADE UP OF NARCO-TERRORISTS, [16:39] WITH TIES TO IRAN, RUSSIA, CHINA, AND CUBA? [16:42] WELL, FIRST OFF, LET ME COMMEND, NOT ONLY OUR MILITARY, AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID, THIS [16:46] WAS AN EXCELLENT OPERATION, ONLY THE UNITED STATES MILITARY COULD HAVE PULLED IT OFF, [16:50] BUT THEY COULDN'T HAVE PULLED IT OFF WITH THE SUPPORT, WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THE PROFESSIONALS [16:54] IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY AT THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY. [16:58] AND I'M GLAD THAT WE HAVE A DIRECTOR, JOHN RATCLIFFE, THAT HAS RESTORED CONFIDENCE IN [17:02] THE C.A.A. AND THE PRESIDENT HAS. [17:04] I THINK THE PRESIDENT RESPECTS THE C.A.A. AS MUCH AS HE EVER HAS. [17:08] IT'S A GREAT DAY, NOT JUST FOR OUR MILITARY, FOR OUR C.A.A. [17:11] THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THE PEOPLE IN VENEZUELA, WHO ARE STILL IN CHARGE OF THE APPARATUS OF [17:16] THE GOVERNMENT, ARE SANCTIONED AND INDICTED OFFICIALS, AND THEY'VE BEEN IN LEAGUE WITH [17:20] NICOLAS MADURO UNTIL JUST YESTERDAY. [17:23] I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO TURN A NEW PAGE. [17:27] NOW, THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST. [17:29] IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN SYRIA, AS YOU KNOW, AHMED EL-SHAYR USED TO BE AN ISLAMIC [17:33] GOVERNMENT. [17:34] HE'S NOW A PRO-AMERICAN LEADER OF SYRIA. [17:38] MUHAMMAD KHADAPI, THE SAME WAY, HAD MUCH BLOOD ON HIS HANDS AFTER THE IRAQ WAR. [17:42] HE TURNED OVER A NEW PAGE AND CAME OUT OF THE COLD. [17:45] THE DIFFERENCE IN THOSE TWO CASES IS THEY MADE CONCRETE CONCESSIONS TO THE UNITED STATES [17:48] AND OUR POLICY GOALS AND INTERESTS, OR THEY HAD A LONGER HISTORY OF TURNING THE CORNER [17:53] LIKE AHMED EL-SHAYR HAS. [17:54] OR IT'S AN ENTIRELY NEW GOVERNMENT. [17:56] WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOW IN CHARGE OF THE APPARATUS OF THE [18:01] VENEZUELAN GOVERNMENT ARE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE NICOLAS MADURO'S WAYS, AND I THINK THAT'S [18:04] WHAT THE PRESIDENT MADE CLEAR YESTERDAY. [18:05] BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY POSSIBLE FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS TO CUT ALL [18:09] TIES TO THE CARTELS. [18:11] THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO TURN THE PAGE IN VENEZUELA AND TO HELP [18:16] AMERICA ACHIEVE OUR POLICY GOALS THERE. [18:18] HOW MUCH TIME WOULD YOU ALLOW FOR THAT? [18:19] I WOULDN'T ALLOW MUCH PERSONALLY, BUT I KNOW THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE ONGOING. [18:24] AS SECRETARY RUBIO SAID EARLIER ON THE SHOW IN YOUR INTERVIEW, WE WANT THEM TO STOP THE [18:28] DRUG AND THE WEAPONS TRAFFICKING. [18:30] WE WANT THEM TO TAKE THE REFUGEES BACK. [18:31] WE WANT THEM TO KICK OUT THE IRANIANS, THE CUBANS, THE ISLAMIC RADICALS LIKE HEZBOLLAH, [18:36] AND JUST RETURN TO BEING A NORMAL NATION THAT WILL HELP BUILD STABILITY, ORDER, AND PROSPERITY, [18:41] NOT JUST IN VENEZUELA, BUT IN OUR BACKYARD. [18:43] SHOULD A FREE AND DEMOCRATIC VENEZUELA STILL BE A GOAL OF THE UNITED STATES OF [18:47] AMERICA? [18:48] DO YOU HEAR FROM THE ADMINISTRATION A PLAN TO TRANSITION TO THAT? [18:52] I THINK IT SHOULD. [18:53] SECRETARY RUBIO WASN'T CLEAR. [18:54] I THINK IT SHOULD BE A GOAL. [18:55] THE OPPOSITION LEADERS, MISS MACHADO, MR. GONZALES, HAVE SAID THEY THINK THERE NEED [18:59] TO BE NEW ELECTIONS. [19:01] I HOPE THE GOVERNMENT THAT'S RIGHT NOW IN PLACE IN VENEZUELA WILL ALLOW THEM TO RETURN, [19:05] ALONG WITH MANY OTHER EXILES WHO HAVE LEFT, POLITICAL EXILES WHO HAVE LEFT VENEZUELA, [19:10] AND THAT IN SOME PERIOD OF TIME, IT PROBABLY IS NOT GOING TO BE DAYS OR WEEKS, MAYBE A [19:14] NUMBER OF MONTHS, THAT YOU CAN HAVE NEW ELECTIONS IN VENEZUELA THAT ARE FREE AND FAIR. [19:18] THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE HAVE MADE CLEAR NOW, UNDER NICOLAS MADURO, THAT THEY DO NOT WANT [19:23] A CHAVISTA REGIME GOVERNING THEM. [19:25] THEY WANT TO SAY IN THEIR OWN FUTURE, VENEZUELA HAS A LONG HISTORY OF STABLE, ORDERLY GOVERNMENT [19:30] THAT WAS FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES. [19:32] WE ARE THEIR NUMBER ONE CUSTOMER FOR OIL, AND WE WORK TOGETHER TO HELP BUILD PROSPERITY [19:37] AND STABILITY IN OUR OWN BACKYARD. [19:39] I HOPE THAT WE CAN DO THAT AGAIN WITH THE FUTURE GOVERNMENT IN VENEZUELA. [19:45] CBS IS REPORTING THAT THE CIA SOURCE INSIDE THE VENEZUELAN GOVERNMENT HELPED THE [19:49] U.S. TRACK MADURO'S LOCATION LEADING UP TO THIS CAPTURE BY THE ARMY'S DELTA FORCE. [19:54] THE PRESIDENT SAID YESTERDAY THE U.S. SHOULD NOT PAY OUT THAT $50 MILLION BOUNTY THAT WAS [19:58] ON THE HEAD OF MADURO. [20:00] DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE CIA ASSET INSIDE STILL WORKS FOR US? [20:04] WELL, I HAVE NO COMMENT ON CIA SOURCES OR METHODS IN VENEZUELA. [20:09] OR ELSEWHERE. [20:10] BUT THEY WON'T BE RECEIVING THE $50 MILLION REWARD? [20:12] I'LL SIMPLY SAY THAT THE CIA'S AMAZING WORK HERE THAT HAS INSTILLED SUCH CONFIDENCE IN [20:17] THE PRESIDENT IS A REMINDER NOT JUST TO NICHOLAS MADURO'S CRONIES IN VENEZUELA, BUT OTHER BAD [20:24] GUYS ALL AROUND THE WORLD THAT WE HAVE VERY GOOD INSIGHTS INTO WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND [20:29] WHAT THEY'RE UP TO. [20:30] SO WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAYS WE WILL RUN VENEZUELA, YOU ARE CONFIDENT THAT THERE ARE [20:35] ACTUAL AMERICAN ASSETS HELPING TO DO THAT? [20:38] IS THAT HOW I SHOULD INTERPRET THAT? [20:39] I'M CONFIDENT. [20:40] I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE HAVE VERY GOOD INSIGHT INTO VENEZUELA AND OTHER ADVERSARIES, FOREIGN [20:44] NATIONS AND TERRORIST GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD. [20:47] WHY WAS CHINA THERE? [20:48] THAT'S WHY THE PRESIDENT HAS SUCH CONFIDENCE IN JOHN RATCLIFFE AND THE CIA. [20:52] WELL, CHINA WAS TRYING TO PROVIDE SUPPORT TO VENEZUELA DURING A U.S. PRESSURE CAMPAIGN, [20:56] BUT WHERE WERE THEY WHEN DELTA FORCE WENT IN AND GOT NICHOLAS MADURO? [21:00] THEY WERE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. [21:01] AND FRANKLY, THAT'S THE SAME THING YOU SAW IN JUNE WITH CHINA AND RUSSIA IN IRAN. [21:07] WE STRUCK IRAN, CHINA AND RUSSIA DID NOTHING. [21:09] THEY STOOD IDLY BY. [21:10] THAT'S A REMINDER THAT THE UNITED STATES IS STILL THE WORLD'S DOMINANT SUPERPOWER. [21:14] OUR FRIENDS ARE VERY HAPPY TODAY. [21:16] OUR ENEMIES ARE VERY WORRIED. [21:17] BUT THE PERSON RUNNING THE COUNTRY, DELSEY RODRIGUEZ, SPOKE YESTERDAY WITH RUSSIA'S [21:23] TOP DIPLOMAT. [21:24] THEY ARE IN CONTACT WITH RUSSIA. [21:25] THE DEFENSE MINISTER HAS DEEP, DEEP TIES TO RUSSIA. [21:29] IS THERE A U.S.-RUSSIA AGREEMENT HERE? [21:30] BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN SPECULATION BASED ON TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS BACK IN 2019 BY ONE [21:36] OF TRUMP'S TOP RUSSIA ADVISORS, FIONA HILL, THAT RUSSIA HAS BEEN FLOATING A VENEZUELA [21:42] FOR UKRAINE DEAL HERE FOR SOME TIME. [21:45] IS THERE ANY SUCH DEAL? [21:46] NO, THIS IS A U.S. OPERATION THAT WAS DESIGNED TO REMOVE NICHOLAS MADURO BECAUSE HE WAS A [21:52] U.S. INDICTED DRUG TRAFFICKER. [21:54] AND YOU DON'T GET IMMUNITY FROM AMERICAN JUSTICE WHEN YOU'RE INDICTED BY OUR COURTS JUST BECAUSE [21:59] YOU'RE THE ILLEGITIMATE COMMUNIST DICTATOR OF ANOTHER COUNTRY. [22:01] BUT TO BE CLEAR, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING HERE. [22:04] IS THERE AN IMPLICATION? [22:05] NO. [22:06] THAT IF RUSSIA DOESN'T MEDDLE IN AMERICA'S BACKYARD, SOUTH AMERICA, THE UNITED STATES [22:10] WILL DO SOMETHING LESS IN UKRAINE, WHICH RUSSIA CALLS ITS BACKYARD. [22:13] NO, THERE'S NO SUCH IMPLICATION. [22:15] AND OBVIOUSLY RUSSIA DOESN'T NEED ANY KIND OF PRETEXT TO DO SO. [22:17] IT'S INVADED UKRAINE TWICE OVER THE LAST 11 YEARS. [22:21] THERE'S NO SUCH IMPLICATION HERE AT ALL. [22:23] AND THIS IS AN OPERATION THE UNITED STATES CONDUCTED ON OUR OWN WITHOUT ANY COORDINATION [22:29] OR COOPERATION FROM OTHER COUNTRIES TO ADVANCE OUR NATIONAL INTEREST, WHICH IS TO STOP THE [22:34] DRUG TRAFFICKING AND STOP VENEZUELA FROM COOPERATING WITH COUNTRIES LIKE RUSSIA AND [22:38] CHINA AND CUBA AND IRAN. [22:40] OKAY. [22:41] I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT AUTHORITIES HERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COMMERCIAL BREAK THAT [22:47] WE ARE GOING TO TAKE. [22:48] SO LET ME DO THAT AND COME BACK. [22:50] ALL RIGHT. [22:51] STAY WITH US, SENATOR TOM COTTON. [22:53] WE RETURN NOW TO OUR CONVERSATION WITH SENATE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN TOM COTTON. [23:04] SENATOR COTTON, THE PRESIDENT SAID SATURDAY THAT A SECOND-WAVE MILITARY ATTACK HAD BEEN [23:09] PLANNED. [23:10] IT WASN'T NECESSARY. [23:11] BUT IT COULD STILL BE CARRIED OUT. [23:13] WHAT WOULD NECESSITATE IT AND WHAT WOULD YOU SUPPORT? [23:17] WELL, WHAT I TOOK THE PRESIDENT TO MEAN IS THAT WHAT WE JUST DID WITH NICOLAS MADURO [23:22] COULD BE DONE AGAIN TO OTHER VENEZUELAN LEADERS. [23:24] SEVERAL OF THEM ARE INDICTED IN U.S. COURTS. [23:26] THEY'RE SANCTIONED BY THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA AND EUROPEAN UNION AND OTHER NATIONS. [23:31] AND IF THEY CONTINUE DOWN THE PATH THAT MADURO TOOK THE NATION OF VENEZUELA, THEN WE COULD [23:36] CONDUCT THE SAME KIND OF OPERATION AS THEM. [23:38] I TOOK THAT AS THE PRESIDENT URGING THEM TO CHANGE THEIR WAYS OR FACE THE SAME CONSEQUENCES. [23:43] AND WOULD YOU SUPPORT A STABILIZATION FORCE? [23:46] U.S. BOOTS ON THE GROUND, AS THE PRESIDENT SAID, HE WOULDN'T RULE OUT. [23:50] WE ALREADY HAD BOOTS ON THE GROUND AS NICOLAS MADURO LEARNED THE HARD WAY. [23:53] IT'S ALWAYS THE PRESIDENT'S OPTION TO USE THE AMERICAN MILITARY TO PROTECT AMERICAN CITIZENS [24:00] AND INTERESTS. [24:01] AND OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS INSIDE OF VENEZUELA, AND WE HAVE MANY INTERESTS [24:05] AND PROPERTY AS WELL. [24:06] BUT, YOU KNOW, COMBAT AND STABILIZATION FORCES ARE DIFFERENT. [24:08] BUT I DON'T THINK HE PLANS TO DO THAT. [24:10] I THINK WE'VE SEEN, TOO, THE PRESIDENT'S WAY OF WAR OVER FIVE YEARS IN OFFICE. [24:16] IF YOU LOOK AT FOUR MAJOR OPERATIONS, THE KILLING OF THE ISIS LEADER IN SYRIA, THE DRONE [24:21] STRIKE AGAINST THE IRANIAN TERRORIST MASTERMIND IN IRAQ, THE STRIKE AGAINST IRAN'S NUCLEAR [24:28] FACILITIES, AND NOW THIS CAPTURE OF NICOLAS MADURO, WHEN OUR VITAL NATIONAL INTERESTS [24:32] ARE IMPLICATED, THE PRESIDENT TAKES BOLD, AUDACIOUS, DIRECT ACTIONS. [24:36] HE ACCOMPLISHES THE MISSION, AND THEN THE MISSION IS OVER. [24:40] IN SOME WAYS, THIS IS THE GREATEST MISSION OF THEM ALL. [24:42] I MEAN, AS IMPRESSIVE AS OUR MILITARY WAS IN IRAN IN JUNE OR IN ITS FIRST TERM IN IRAQ [24:48] AND SYRIA AGAINST THOSE TERRORIST MASTERMINDS, IT'S PROBABLY HARDER TO CAPTURE SOMEONE AND [24:53] GET OUT WITH NO AMERICAN LOSS OF LIFE THAN IT IS TO KILL A TARGET OR TO BLOW UP NUCLEAR [24:58] FACILITIES. [24:59] SO YOU ARE DRAWING A DISTINCTION THERE IN TERMS OF AUTHORITIES AND USE OF THE MILITARY. [25:05] THE WAR POWERS ACT REPORTED. [25:06] IT REQUIRES THE PRESIDENT TO NOTIFY CONGRESS OF THE REASON FOR COMMITTING TROOPS WITHIN [25:09] 48 HOURS OF THEIR DEPLOYMENT AND REQUIRES THEY BE REMOVED WITHIN 60 TO 90 DAYS UNLESS [25:14] CONGRESS AUTHORIZES IT. [25:17] ARE YOU OKAY WITH THIS OPEN-ENDED COMMITMENT TO KEEP FORCES AS THEY ARE? [25:21] WELL, I THINK HE HAS REMOVED THE TROOPS. [25:23] THEY WERE ONLY THERE FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS TO NAB NICOLAS MADURO. [25:25] YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DELTA FORCE OPERATORS WHO ARE ON THE GROUND. [25:28] BUT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT MILITARY BUILDUP ALL AROUND SOUTH AMERICA RIGHT NOW. [25:33] YES. [25:33] YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT? [25:35] DOES CONGRESS NEED ANY AUTHORITY? [25:35] NO, I STRONGLY SUPPORT IT. [25:36] I MEAN, PART OF THAT DEPLOYMENT WAS TO COLLECT INTELLIGENCE, TO CONDUCT THIS OPERATION, TO [25:42] QUARANTINE THE OIL TRADE THAT VENEZUELA WAS SENDING TO CUBA OR SENDING TO OUR ADVERSARIES [25:47] AROUND THE WORLD. [25:47] BUT IT'S NOT MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. [25:49] WE WON'T HAVE ACCOMPLISHED OUR MISSION UNTIL VENEZUELA STARTS ACTING LIKE A NORMAL NATION. [25:54] IT STOPS THE DRUG TRAFFICKING AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING. [25:56] IT KICKS OUT ISLAMIC RADICALS AND IRANIANS AND CUBANS AND HELPS THE UNITED STATES BUILD [26:02] A MORE STABLE, PROSPEROUS WESTERN HEMISPHERE. [26:05] THAT'S THE ULTIMATE GOAL, AND THAT'S WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP LAID OUT YESTERDAY. [26:07] SO LAST MONTH, THE CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT SUSIE WILES TOLD VANITY FAIR THAT ATTACKING [26:12] TARGETS ON VENEZUELA'S MAINLAND, SOVEREIGN TERRITORY, WOULD FORCE TRUMP TO GET CONGRESSIONAL [26:17] APPROVAL. [26:18] QUOTE, IF HE WERE TO AUTHORIZE SOME ACTIVITY ON LAND, THEN IT'S WAR. [26:22] THEN WE'D NEED CONGRESS. [26:24] YOU ARE A COEQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT. [26:27] WHY DOESN'T THE PRESIDENT NEED YOU OR YOUR AUTHORITY OR YOUR CONSULTATION? [26:31] WELL, I CONSULT ROUTINELY WITH THE PRESIDENT AND HIS SENIOR ADVISORS. [26:35] YOU PERSONALLY, SURE. [26:36] WELL, AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, THEY KEEP ME APPRISED OF WHAT [26:41] THEIR PLANS ARE AND WHAT'S GOING ON. [26:44] I MEAN, I SPOKE IN THE LAST 24 HOURS NOT JUST WITH THE PRESIDENT, BUT WITH HIS SENIOR TEAM, [26:48] EVERY MAN THAT WAS ON THAT STAGE WITH HIM YESTERDAY, MARCO RUBIO, JOHN RATCLIFFE, [26:52] PETE HEXETH, DAN KANE, STEPHEN MILLER. [26:54] THE CORE ARCHITECT OF THE PRESIDENT'S POLICY HERE. [26:57] I'VE SPOKEN WITH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IN THE LAST 24 HOURS. [27:01] CONGRESS HAS ACTED TO PROVIDE THE PRESIDENT THE RESOURCES AND AUTHORITY THAT HE NEEDS [27:06] TO PROTECT THE VITAL INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES, WHETHER IT'S TAKING OUT THIS DRUG [27:10] TRAFFICKER, NICHOLAS MADURO, WHO HAD CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEATHS OF HUNDREDS OF ARKANSANS AND [27:14] HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS OR STRIKING IRAN'S NUCLEAR FACILITIES. [27:18] HE HAS THE INHERENT AUTHORITY UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION TO PROTECT THESE AMERICAN NATIONAL INTERESTS [27:23] AND AS THE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO MAKE SURE THAT INDICTED DRUG TRAFFICKERS FACE [27:27] JUSTICE, WHETHER THEY'RE INDICTED IN VENEZUELA OR INDICTED IN THE UNITED STATES. [27:30] BUT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, THE DEA ADMINISTRATOR SAID THAT COCAINE PRICES HAVE GONE UP NEARLY [27:35] 45%. [27:36] DRUG TRAFFICKERS HAVE ONLY CHANGED ROUTES. [27:38] VENEZUELA IS NOT A FENTANYL PRODUCER, NOT A COCAINE PRODUCER. [27:42] DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THIS HAS ENDED? [27:44] VENEZUELA IS UNIQUE IN LATIN AMERICA, THOUGH, BECAUSE THE MADURO REGIME IS ITSELF IN LEAGUE [27:51] WITH THE DRUG TRAFFICKING CARTELS. [27:52] IT DOESN'T JUST TOLERATE THEM OR IT DOESN'T JUST FAIL TO CONTROL ITS TERRITORY. [27:56] IT IS IN LEAGUE AND PROFITS FROM DRUG TRAFFICKING CARTELS. [27:59] THAT'S THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN VENEZUELA AND OTHER NATIONS. [28:02] SENATOR COTTON, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. [28:05] THANK YOU, MARGARET. [28:05] WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK. [28:10] WE TURN NOW TO CONNECTICUT CONGRESSMAN JIM HINES. [28:12] HE IS THE TOP DEMOCRAT ON THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, AND HE JOINS US THIS MORNING FROM [28:16] GRENIDGE. [28:17] CONGRESSMAN HINES, YOU ARE PART OF THAT GANG OF EIGHT, WHICH MEANS THAT INFORMATION ABOUT [28:22] THESE SECRET OPERATIONS IS STATUTORIALLY INTENDED TO BE SHARED WITH YOU AS PART OF THIS VERY [28:29] SMALL GROUP. [28:30] GIVEN THAT AND WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW, CAN YOU CLEARLY EXPLAIN WHAT THE UNITED STATES IS [28:38] DOING? [28:41] YEAH. [28:42] BY THE WAY, I WAS DELIGHTED TO HEAR THAT TOM COTTON, CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE [28:45] COMMITTEE, HAS BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS. [28:46] HE HAS BEEN IN REGULAR CONTACT WITH THE ADMINISTRATION. [28:48] I'VE HAD ZERO OUTREACH, AND NO DEMOCRAT THAT I'M AWARE OF HAS HAD ANY OUTREACH WHATSOEVER. [28:52] SO APPARENTLY WE'RE NOW IN A WORLD WHERE THE LEGAL OBLIGATION TO KEEP THE CONGRESS INFORMED [28:56] ONLY APPLIES TO YOUR PARTY, WHICH IS REALLY SOMETHING. [28:59] BUT, YEAH, NO, LOOK, I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE, MARGARET. [29:01] WE'RE IN THE EUPHORIA PERIOD OF ACKNOWLEDGING ACROSS THE BOARD THAT MADURO WAS A BAD GUY [29:07] AND THAT OUR MILITARY IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. [29:09] THIS IS EXACTLY THE EUPHORIA WE FELT IN 2002 WHEN OUR MILITARY TOOK DOWN THE TALIBAN IN [29:14] AFGHANISTAN, IN 2003 WHEN OUR MILITARY TOOK OUT SADDAM HUSSEIN, AND IN 2011 WHEN WE HELPED [29:19] REMOVE MUAMMAR KHADAFI FROM POWER IN LIBYA. [29:22] THESE WERE VERY, VERY BAD PEOPLE. [29:23] BY THE WAY, MUCH, MUCH WORSE THAN MADURO IN VENEZUELA, WHICH WAS NEVER A SIGNIFICANT [29:28] NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES. [29:31] BUT WE'RE IN THAT EUPHORIA PHASE. [29:33] AND WHAT WE LEARNED THE DAY AFTER THE EUPHORIA PHASE IS THAT IT'S AN AWFUL LOT EASIER TO [29:39] DO WHAT THE PRESIDENT PROMISED TO DO, WHICH IS TO RUN IT. [29:43] AND SO, AGAIN, LET'S LET MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ENJOY THEIR DAY OF EUPHORIA. [29:48] BUT THEY'RE GOING TO WAKE UP TOMORROW MORNING KNOWING, MY GOD, THERE IS NO PLAN HERE ANY [29:52] MORE THAN THERE WAS IN AFGHANISTAN, IRAQ, OR IN LIBYA. [29:55] WELL, YOU HEARD THE SECRETARY OF STATE SAY, WELL, THIS IS NOT THE MIDDLE EAST. [29:58] THERE ARE CONFLICTING STATEMENTS FROM CABINET MEMBERS. [30:02] HEGSETH TOLD CBS, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL ABSOLUTELY BE IN [30:07] CHARGE HERE. [30:08] AND LEANED INTO THE IDEA. [30:09] MILITARY OPTIONS. [30:11] PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THERE WILL BE AN OPTION OF BOOTS ON THE GROUND. [30:15] SECRETARY RUBIO, THOUGH, REALLY JUST LEANED INTO AN OIL QUARANTINE HERE. [30:21] WHAT EXACTLY IS THE POINT OF LEVERAGE HERE? [30:26] WHEN DO YOU EXPECT TO GET ANSWERS? [30:28] DO YOUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES PROMISE YOU THAT THEY WILL GET SOME OF THESE ANSWERS TO [30:33] THE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE? [30:36] OF COURSE NOT, MARGARET. [30:38] I MEAN, LOOK, YOU'RE SEEING IT ON TELEVISION TODAY, RIGHT? [30:40] TWO-THIRDS OF MY REPUBLICANS. [30:41] THEY PICK UP EVERY SINGLE MORNING, AND THE ONLY QUESTION THEY HAVE IS WHAT CAN I DO TO [30:45] PROVE MY LOYALTY TO THE PRESIDENT TODAY? [30:48] AND WE SEE THIS BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT HAS COMPLETELY SHIFTED WHO HE WAS. [30:53] I MEAN, AS I WATCHED THAT NEWS CONFERENCE YESTERDAY, I THOUGHT, OH, MY GOD, THIS IS [30:57] DICK CHENEY AND THE NEOCONS. [30:58] NOT ONLY ARE THEY TAKING OUT A ‑‑ THEY'RE DOING A REGIME CHANGE IN A COUNTRY, BY THE [31:03] WAY, NOT A TIER 1 THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES, BUT THAT THEY JUST DON'T LIKE, THEY'RE WARNING [31:07] THE OTHER DICTATORS. [31:08] THIS IS DICK CHENEY IN 2002 SAYING WE'RE TAKING DOWN SADDAM HUSSEIN. [31:12] AND, BY THE WAY, SYRIA AND IRAN BETTER WATCH OUT. [31:14] AND THE FASCINATING THING ABOUT THAT AND WHY IT'S REALLY HARD TO ANSWER THE QUESTION OF [31:18] WHERE THE HELL THEY'RE GOING TO GO FROM HERE IS THAT THE PRESIDENT WON BY PROMISING MAGA [31:22] AND HIS OWN PEOPLE THAT THIS KIND OF STUFF WAS DONE, THAT THE NEOCONS WERE OVER. [31:28] AND HERE WE ARE. [31:30] THAT WAS DICK CHENEY IN THE CONFERENCE YESTERDAY, YOU KNOW, DECIDING THAT THE UNITED STATES [31:33] WAS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, MILITARILY CHANGE REGIMES AND THREATEN OTHER ONES JUST BECAUSE [31:37] WE DON'T LIKE IT. [31:38] WELL, BUT THEN THE SECRETARY OF STATE WAS TALKING ABOUT WORKING WITH THE REGIME AND [31:45] WORKING WITH MADURO'S NUMBER TWO, WHO'S NOW RUNNING THE PLACE, AND OTHER INDICTED CRIMINALS, [31:52] ACCORDING TO THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, WHO ARE CONTINUING TO RUN VENEZUELA. [31:57] SO CAN YOU REALLY SAY THAT'S REGIME CHANGE IF THEY'RE WORKING WITH THE REGIME? [32:02] AS YOU POINTED OUT, IT'S NOT, RIGHT? [32:04] AND, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT LOST TO EXPLAIN ANY CONSISTENCY HERE. [32:09] I MEAN, AS YOU POINTED OUT, [32:11] IT WAS A VERY, [32:11] VERY BAD GUY IN AN INDICTED TRUMP TRAFFIC. [32:14] FIVE WEEKS AGO, THE PARDONED INDICTED TRUMP DRUG TRAFFIC, THESE GUYS GET A PARTY, [32:21] LET THEM GET THE FULL MILLION, TAKE THEM FROM NEW YORK. [32:25] I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT. [32:27] THERE IS NO LONGER, MAYBE, MAYBE HE BELIEVES THAT HE CAN WORK WITH THE, BUT I MEAN, LOOK, [32:35] AGAIN, GO BACK TO WHEN HE MADE IT AS A LIBERATOR. [32:38] CONGRESSMAN HINES, I'M SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF HERE. [32:40] I'M HAVING A TERRIBLE TIME AUDIO-WISE. [32:43] I'M GOING TO TAKE A BREAK BECAUSE HOPEFULLY OUR TECHNICIANS CAN FIX IT IN THOSE TWO MINUTES. [32:47] SO PLEASE STAY WITH US. [32:48] WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK. [32:53] WELCOME BACK TO FACE THE NATION. [32:54] JUST WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO OUR VIEWERS THERE. [32:57] CONGRESSMAN HINES DID NOT HAVE A BAD CASE OF THE HICKUPS. [32:59] WE HAVE TECHNICAL PROBLEMS. [33:01] THAT'S WHY HE WAS GETTING INTERRUPTED THERE. [33:03] IT'S CALLED LIVE VIEW. [33:04] THAT'S THE TECHNOLOGY BEING USED, AND IT WASN'T WORKING. [33:06] SO APOLOGIES FOR CUTTING THAT SHORT. [33:08] YOU'RE BACK WITH ME NOW IN STUDIO, AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO MARYLAND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR [33:13] CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, WHO IS HERE IN PERSON. [33:17] GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, MARGARET. [33:18] WE'LL NOT HAVE THOSE PROBLEMS, WE HOPE. [33:20] BUT LET'S PICK UP ON THAT VERY SAME POINT THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING WITH CONGRESSMAN HINES [33:26] THERE. [33:27] HE SAYS THAT NO INFORMATION WAS BEING SHARED WITH THE TOP PEOPLE WHO HAVE OVERSIGHT, LIKE [33:34] HIMSELF. [33:35] WHAT LEVERAGE DO DEMOCRATS HAVE TO FORCE THE ADMINISTRATION? [33:40] TO TREAT CONGRESS AS A COEQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT? [33:44] WELL, MARGARET, IT'S HARD WHEN THE REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS ARE TOTALLY AWOL, RIGHT? [33:49] WHEN THEY WANT TO GIVE DONALD TRUMP ESSENTIALLY A BLANK CHECK, BECAUSE THEY CONTINUE TO HAVE [33:55] MAJORITIES, OF COURSE, IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. [33:58] OBVIOUSLY, IN 2026, IF DEMOCRATS REGAIN CONTROL OF EITHER HOUSE, WE WILL HAVE THE GAVEL. [34:04] BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE NEED TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND JUST MAKE IT VERY [34:09] CLEAR THAT IN THIS CASE. [34:11] IT'S MY VIEW THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. [34:15] THIS HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT STOPPING DRUGS FROM COMING TO THE UNITED STATES. [34:19] WE ALL SUPPORT STOPPING DRUGS. [34:21] THIS, FROM THE BEGINNING, HAS BEEN ABOUT GETTING RID OF MADURO, GRABBING VENEZUELA'S OIL FOR [34:27] AMERICAN OIL COMPANIES AND TRUMP'S BILLIONAIRE BUDDIES. [34:30] THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. [34:32] THAT'S WHY DONALD TRUMP SPENT SO MUCH TIME YESTERDAY TALKING ABOUT OIL. [34:36] 20 TIMES THE WORD OIL WAS USED IN THOSE REMARKS. [34:39] THE DEFENSE SECRETARY SPOKE TO MY COLLEAGUE. [34:41] TONY DUCOPOL AND USED THE WORD OIL ABOUT SIX TIMES. [34:45] THERE IS A LOT OF FOCUS ON THOSE NATURAL RESOURCES. [34:48] BUT ARGUABLY, ISN'T THAT WHAT CHINA, RUSSIA, IRAN, OTHERS ARE ALSO TRYING TO DO, WHICH [34:55] IS TO EXTRACT THEIR OWN BENEFIT FROM THIS COUNTRY? [34:59] WHAT IS THE COUNTER TO THAT POINT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WOULD ARGUE? [35:02] WELL, THE COUNTER IS YOU DON'T INVADE A COUNTRY TO GRAB THEIR NATURAL RESOURCES, RIGHT? [35:08] DO YOU CONSIDER THIS AN INVASION, EVEN THOUGH, ALTHOUGH IT'S UNCLEAR? [35:11] WELL, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY. [35:13] THEY BOTH SAID THERE WERE BOOTS ON THE GROUND AND THAT THERE AREN'T. [35:15] WELL, THEY TOOK, THEY HAD BOOTS ON THE GROUND, RIGHT? [35:17] THEY TOOK OUT THE LEADER. [35:20] AND NOW THEY'RE DEMANDING ACCESS TO VENEZUELA'S OIL. [35:25] THAT'S WHAT THIS HAS BEEN ABOUT. [35:26] I MEAN, DONALD TRUMP, YOU KNOW, CLAIMED THAT HE'D BEEN AGAINST THE WAR IN IRAQ FROM THE [35:30] BEGINNING. [35:31] THAT WASN'T TRUE. [35:32] BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS HE SAID, WELL, HAVING GONE INTO IRAQ, WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEIR [35:37] OIL. [35:38] THIS IS WHAT DRIVES DONALD TRUMP. [35:40] AND OUR SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN PERFORM MAGIC. [35:43] MAGNIFICENTLY. [35:44] BUT I THINK IT'S OUTRAGEOUS THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES PUTS AMERICAN LIVES AT [35:48] RISK SO BIG AMERICAN OIL COMPANIES AND HIS BILLIONAIRE BUDDIES CAN PROFIT. [35:53] BUT ARGUABLY, THERE ARE ALSO CRITICAL MINERALS THERE. [35:56] THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF NATURAL RESOURCES IN VENEZUELA THAT THE DRUG CARTELS EVEN WERE [36:01] GETTING IN THE BUSINESS OF THAT THE CHINESE WERE THERE TRYING TO GET. [36:05] HOW DO YOU DO BOTH THINGS, BOTH CORNER THE MARKET ON THINGS THAT ARE OF VITAL NATIONAL [36:10] SECURITY INTEREST, THOSE KIND OF MINERALS, AND STILL ACTUALLY MAINTAIN THE PRINCIPLES [36:15] THAT YOU'RE ARGUING SHOULD BE UPHELD? [36:17] WELL, THE UNITED STATES IS WORKING, AND UNDER THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, ALSO WORKED TO [36:21] SECURE CRITICAL MINERAL SUPPLY CHAINS. [36:25] UNFORTUNATELY, IN MANY OF THESE AREAS, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ACTUALLY HAS SURRENDERED [36:31] TO CHINA. [36:32] I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT, FOR EXAMPLE, CLEAN ENERGY AND ALL THOSE ISSUES AND BATTERIES, [36:38] WE'VE ESSENTIALLY SURRENDERED THAT MARKET. [36:41] TO CHINA. [36:41] WHAT YOU DON'T DO, MARGARET, IS YOU DON'T PUT AMERICAN LIVES AT RISK TO GO IN AND GRAB [36:48] OIL RESOURCES TO BENEFIT THE BILLIONAIRES THAT SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP. [36:53] SO CHEVRON, AN AMERICAN OIL COMPANY, HAS BEEN OPERATING IN VENEZUELA THROUGHOUT, AND THEY [36:59] TOLD CBS YESTERDAY THAT THEY CONTINUE TO WORK THERE. [37:02] MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF AMERICANS WORKING AND LIVING IN VENEZUELA STILL. [37:07] REPORTEDLY, THERE ARE AT LEAST FOUR WHO HAVE BEEN DEPTAINED. [37:11] BY THE REGIME. [37:12] THE REGIME THAT REMAINS IN POWER HERE. [37:14] YOU WERE ON SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS. [37:16] WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE DETAINED AMERICANS? [37:18] WHAT CAN YOU FIND OUT ABOUT HOW THEY'RE DOING? [37:22] I'VE NOT GOTTEN AN UPDATE FROM THE ADMINISTRATION ON THOSE DETAINED AMERICANS. [37:26] MONTHS AGO, I DID WORK TO SECURE THE RELEASE OF AN AMERICAN, A MARYLANDER, WHO WE NOW HAVE [37:32] BACK IN BALTIMORE, MARYLAND. [37:34] I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS LOOKING AT THOSE DETENTIONS CURRENTLY ONGOING IN VENEZUELA [37:40] AND DETERMINING. [37:41] HOW MANY OF THEM ARE WRONGFUL DETENTIONS? [37:43] HOW MANY THAT THEY DON'T THINK ARE WRONGFUL DETENTIONS? [37:45] BUT CERTAINLY, MY VIEW IS, WE SHOULD WORK TO BRING BACK EVERY AMERICAN WHO IS WRONGFULLY [37:51] DETAINED OVERSEAS. [37:52] I THINK THIS IS GOING TO COMPLICATE THAT EFFORT WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION JUST DID. [37:59] BECAUSE THEY COULD DESIGNATE VENEZUELA AS A STATE SPONSOR OF HOSTAGE SHAKING NOW? [38:03] IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THAT? [38:04] NO. [38:05] MY VIEW IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION SHOULD DESIGNATE AS WRONGFULLY DETAINED ANY AMERICAN [38:12] THAT THE VENEZUELAN GOVERNMENT HAS SEIZED WRONGFULLY, AND THEN THERE ARE WAYS TO CONTINUE [38:18] TO PUT PRESSURE ON. [38:19] NOW, NORMALLY, THAT PRESSURE WOULD BE THROUGH SANCTIONS. [38:21] HERE, THE ADMINISTRATION OBVIOUSLY HAS TAKEN MILITARY ACTION. [38:26] AS YOU'VE BEEN POINTING OUT, WE'RE STILL LEFT WITH THE REGIME. [38:30] I MEAN, THE VICE PRESIDENT'S PART OF THE REGIME. [38:32] DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE'S RUNNING VENEZUELA. [38:36] THIS IS NOT GOING TO END WELL. [38:39] IRAQ DID NOT END WELL. [38:40] OTHER EFFORTS TO TRY TO GET RID OF VENEZUELA. [38:42] BAD PEOPLE, AND WE'RE GLAD TO GET RID OF MADURO. [38:44] I'D LIKE TO GET RID OF LEADERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES, BUT YOU [38:47] DON'T DO IT THROUGH FORCE. [38:50] THAT JUST DOESN'T WORK OUT WELL IN OUR EXPERIENCE. [38:54] RIGHT. [38:54] AND EVEN ON THAT POINT, THE SECRETARY OF STATE RUBIO [38:57] CHALLENGED ME IN SAYING WE COULDN'T GRAB ALL THOSE PEOPLE [38:59] AT ONCE, BUT ATTORNEY GENERAL, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL [39:03] BARR WAS ON FOX NEWS THIS MORNING, THE MAN WHO PUT [39:06] TOGETHER THAT FIRST INDICTMENT OF MADURO, AND HE SAID THE [39:09] INTENTION WAS TO CLEAN THE PLACE OUT OF THIS CRIMINAL [39:12] ORGANIZATION, SO THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE FOLLOW-UP ACTION. [39:15] TO BE CLEAR, DO YOU OPPOSE ALL SNATCH-AND-GRAB OPERATIONS OF [39:18] INDICTED PEOPLE? [39:21] WELL, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE PUTTING AMERICAN MEN AND WOMEN [39:24] AT RISK IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS. [39:27] I MEAN, I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY SITUATION, BUT AGAIN, THE [39:30] MOTIVATION HERE IS ABOUT GRABBING VENEZUELA'S OIL FOR [39:35] AMERICAN OIL COMPANIES. [39:36] YOU ALREADY SEE FOLKS ON WALL STREET LINING UP, SO LET'S JUST [39:40] BE REAL AS TO WHAT IS REALLY BEHIND. [39:42] I MEAN, DONALD TRUMP SAID HE WAS GOING TO FOCUS ON THE UNITED [39:46] STATES, WE HAVE PEOPLE'S HEALTHCARE COSTS GOING THROUGH [39:48] THE ROOF BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO EXTEND THE AFFORDABLE CARE TAX [39:52] CREDITS. [39:52] MEANWHILE, HE BAILS OUT ARGENTINA AND WANTS TO RUN [39:56] VENEZUELA FOR THE BENEFIT OF AMERICAN OIL COMPANIES. [40:01] WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT ALL THE THINGS YOU JUST [40:03] RAISED IN A FUTURE EPISODE OF FACE THE NATION, BUT CLEARLY ON [40:07] THE QUESTION OF WAR POWERS, DOES THE PRESIDENT HAVE THE LEGAL [40:11] AUTHORITY DO WHAT HE'S DOING? [40:13] NO, HE DOES NOT. [40:13] I MEAN, THIS IS... [40:14] YOU'RE ON THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE. [40:16] YOU'VE GOT POWER. [40:17] WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT? [40:18] WELL, I WORKED WITH SENATOR MERKLEY ALREADY TO OFFER A [40:22] RESOLUTION IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE TO CUT OFF ANY U.S. [40:25] TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO FUND AN ATTACK AGAINST VENEZUELA. [40:31] REPUBLICANS BLOCKED US FROM DOING IT. [40:33] SO, YES, WE WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH. [40:35] IN FACT, I'M SURE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A VOTE ON A WAR POWERS [40:37] RESOLUTION PROBABLY AS EARLY AS THIS WEEK, IF NOT NEXT. [40:41] LAST TIME WE OFFERED THOSE, MARGARET, [40:43] REPUBLICANS VOTED NO, ALL BUT ONE OR TWO. [40:46] SENATOR PAUL VOTED WITH US, MAYBE ONE OTHER. [40:49] BUT FOR THE MOST PART, REPUBLICANS ARE HAPPY TO GIVE [40:53] DONALD TRUMP A BLIND CHECK AND SURRENDER THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL [40:56] RESPONSIBILITIES TO DONALD TRUMP. [40:59] SENATOR VAN HOLLEN, A LOT MORE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT. [41:02] THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE TODAY. [41:04] THANK YOU. [41:05] TO LEAVE IT THERE. [41:05] WE TURN NOW BACK TO OUR CONVERSATION WITH CONNECTICUT [41:09] DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN JIM HINES, WHO I THINK CAN BE HEARD NOW. [41:13] CONGRESSMAN. [41:14] I'M GLAD WE GOT THE LINK BACK UP. [41:19] FOR THOSE VIEWERS WHO LOST YOU THERE, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US, [41:25] THE ADMINISTRATION IS ARGUING THAT WHAT THEY DID IS LEGAL AND [41:30] THAT THE SNATCH AND GRAB OPERATION OF TAKING AN INDICTED [41:33] CRIMINAL, NICHOLAS MADURO, TO THE UNITED STATES THROUGH [41:37] MILITARY FORCE HAS PRECEDENT. [41:39] AND THEY POINT BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LATE 80s WHEN [41:44] NOURIE GOT INVOLVED. [41:44] WHAT'S YOUR CHALLENGE TO THAT? [41:46] YEAH, WELL, FIRST, IT'S CLEARLY ILLEGAL UNDER [41:52] INTERNATIONAL LAW, RIGHT, FULL STOP, U.N. [41:54] CHARTER, NO QUESTION THERE. [41:55] NOW, YOU MAY NOT CARE ABOUT INTERNATIONAL LAW, BUT IF YOU [41:57] DON'T CARE ABOUT INTERNATIONAL LAW, REMEMBER YOU'RE GOING TO BE [42:00] MAKING AN APPEAL TO INTERNATIONAL LAW TO TRY TO GET [42:02] RESTITUTION FOR THE SEIZURE OF CHEVRON'S OIL STUFF, SO MAYBE [42:07] YOU WANT TO RETHINK HOW MUCH DISDAIN YOU SHOW FOR [42:09] INTERNATIONAL LAW. [42:11] CLEARLY NOT LEGAL UNDER THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE THOUGH [42:13] PRESIDENTS OF BOTH PARTIES HAVE ARGUED AGAINST THIS, THE [42:16] CONSTITUTION IS REALLY PRETTY CLEAR THAT THE REPRESENTATIVES [42:19] OF THE PEOPLE GET TO BE CONSULTED AND ULTIMATELY [42:22] APPROVE MILITARY ACTIVITY. [42:23] THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED HERE AT ALL. [42:27] AND SO, AGAIN, THERE'S NOTHING LEGAL ABOUT THIS. [42:31] AND MORE TO THE POINT, AGAIN, UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL LAW [42:34] POINT, THINK OF WHAT RUSSIA AND CHINA JUST LEARNED. [42:37] RUSSIA AND CHINA JUST LEARNED THAT ALL YOU NEED TO DO IF YOU [42:40] WANT TO GO INTO ESTONIA IS TO SAY THAT THE LEADER OF [42:43] ESTONIA IS A RUSSIAN. [42:44] IF YOU WANT TO GO INTO ESTONIA IS A BAD PERSON, YOU DON'T EVEN [42:45] NEED TO MAKE A PARTICULARLY GOOD CASE. [42:47] LOOK, THERE'S NO NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT SAYING THAT [42:49] VENEZUELA WAS A MORTAL THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES THREE WEEKS [42:51] AGO. [42:52] SO WHAT CHINA AND RUSSIA JUST LEARNED IS THAT THE BEACON OF [42:55] LIBERTY AND RULE OF LAW IN THE WORLD HAS NOW GREENLIGHTED [42:59] SNATCH-AND-GRAB OPERATIONS IN ESTONIA, IN TAIWAN, WHEREVER [43:02] XI AND PUTIN DECIDE THEY WANT TO GO NEXT. [43:06] SO I TAKE YOUR POINT ON THE PRECEDENT THERE. [43:09] DO YOU THINK THAT CHINA OR RUSSIA WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY [43:13] TO CARRY OUT THAT KIND OF LIGHTNING OPERATION THE UNITED [43:17] STATES DID? [43:21] WELL, NO. [43:23] BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN, WELL, CHINA, YES. [43:25] CHINA, YES. [43:26] CHINA VERY SOON. [43:27] AND, YOU KNOW, THEIR LEADER HAS SAID WE WILL DEVELOP THIS [43:29] CAPABILITY. [43:30] WE KNOW THAT THEIR INTENT IS TO DO PRECISELY THIS IN TAIWAN. [43:33] RUSSIA IS A MORE COMPLICATED CASE. [43:35] IT'S, YOU KNOW, RUSSIA LOSES 10,000 PEOPLE TO GET, YOU KNOW, [43:37] THREE ACRES OF LAND IN EASTERN UKRAINE. [43:39] BUT THAT MAY NOT BE TRUE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW. [43:41] AND, BY THE WAY, BACK TO THE NORIEGA CASE, BECAUSE YOU DO ASK [43:44] A GOOD QUESTION THERE. [43:45] PANAMA IS A TERRIBLE PRECEDENT. [43:47] WHY DO I SAY THAT? [43:48] BECAUSE WHEN WE WENT INTO PANAMA, THE PANAMANIAN CONGRESS [43:52] HAD DECLARED WAR ON THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, RIGHT? [43:56] THEY HAD KILLED A UNITED STATES MARINE AND WOUNDED TWO OTHERS, [43:59] AND THE CONGRESS HAD BEEN CONSULTANT. [44:01] THE CONGRESS IN THE NORIEGA MISSION HAD AUTHORIZED REGIME [44:08] CHANGE. [44:09] SO IT'S A TERRIBLE PRECEDENT THAT THE [44:11] ADMINISTRATION IS USING TO SAY THAT THIS IS LEGAL. [44:15] YEAH. [44:15] AS WE UNDERSTAND IT, BECAUSE WE LOOKED THIS UP, NORIEGA CLAIMED [44:18] HEAD OF STATE IMMUNITY, AND THE COURT SAID THAT THAT IMMUNITY [44:21] WAS MEANT TO PROTECT OFFICIAL STATE FUNCTIONS AND PRIVATE [44:24] PROFITING OFF THE DRUG TRADE. [44:25] BASICALLY, THE COURT'S RULED ON HIS ACTIONS AS A LEADER AND NOT [44:28] ON THE LEGALITY OF THE SNATCH AND GRAB OPERATION ITSELF. [44:32] SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO TRACK ALL OF THIS. [44:36] THANK YOU, CONGRESSMAN HINES. [44:38] THANK YOU, SENATOR VAN HOLLEN. [44:40] WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK. [44:46] THAT'S IT FOR US TODAY. [44:47] AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF BREAKING NEWS. [44:49] THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. [44:50] BE SURE TO TUNE IN MONDAY NIGHT AND EVERY WEEKDAY NIGHT FOR THE [44:54] CBS EVENING NEWS AS TONY DECOPOL BEGINS A NEW GENERATION HERE AT [44:58] CBS NEWS. [45:00] UNTIL NEXT WEEK, FOR FACE THE NATION, I'M MARGARET BRENNAN.