Sen. Mark Warner, Rep. Tony Gonzales and more

[0:01] I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington and this week on Face the Nation, mindful of the upcoming [0:06] midterm elections, the Trump administration moderates its tone on deportations while [0:11] ramping up efforts to undermine confidence in our election process. With an eye towards November [0:17] and an ear filled with Republican and voter concerns about the deaths of Minnesota residents [0:23] Renee Good and Alex Pretti at the hands of federal immigration agents, President Trump concedes that [0:29] lessons might have been learned about the way deportation roundups were conducted in Minneapolis. [0:35] PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I learned that maybe we can use a little bit of a softer [0:40] touch, but you still have to be tough. These are criminals. We're dealing with really hard criminals. [0:46] With congressional efforts to agree on reforms tied to DHS funding stalled, we'll talk to a Texas [0:52] Republican congressman, Tony Gonzalez. His district is home to that family detention facility that [0:57] housed five-year-old Liam Ramos and his father, Larry. [1:00] Last month. Plus, President Trump frauds Republicans to nationalize voting, a move that prompts [1:06] pushback from Democrats and state election officials. And what is behind the FBI's seizure of [1:13] 2020 election records from Fulton County, Georgia? We'll talk to the top Democrat on the Senate [1:18] Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner, and elections expert David Becker. Finally, we'll talk to former [1:24] FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb about the alarming spread of measles around the U.S. and get [1:29] his take on the situation. [1:30] We begin this morning with the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, [1:56] Virginia's Mark Warner. Good to have you here. [1:58] Thank you, Margaret. [1:59] I want to talk about elections and security. Back on January 28th, the FBI went to [2:06] Fulton County, Georgia, and seized ballots and 2020 voting records linked to the presidential election. [2:13] The director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, then was spotted outside the elections [2:19] office, and she argued that her presence there had been personally requested by the President of the [2:24] United States, and she had broad statutory authority to coordinate, integrate and analyze [2:29] intelligence related to election security. What would justify her involvement? Is there any foreign [2:37] nexus that you have been informed of? We have not been informed of any foreign nexus. The job of the [2:44] director of national intelligence is to be outward-facing about foreigners, not about [2:50] Americans. And remember, many of the reforms that were put in place actually took place after the [2:59] Watergate scandal under President Nixon, where a president was directly involved in certain domestic [3:05] criminal activities that appeared with the Watergate break-in. And my fear in this case [3:09] is it almost seems Nixonian. You know, if the president asked Gabbard to show up [3:15] in Georgia on a domestic political investigation, first of all, how would he know about the search [3:20] warrant even being issued? That's not his job. And then to have the director of national [3:25] intelligence down there, which is totally against her rules, unless there is a foreign nexus. [3:31] And she has not indicated any foreign nexus to us to date. There's been no communication with [3:37] the committee whatsoever on this issue? We have asked. Okay. We then subsequently found that this [3:42] was not the first time she was involved in domestic activities. She went through [3:46] and seized some voting machines in Puerto Rico earlier in the year. Again, we had no knowledge [3:51] of that. And then the question of what she was doing in Georgia, there's been three or four [3:56] different stories since it broke. First, she said the president asked, then the president said he [4:00] didn't ask her, then he said it was Pam Bondi, the attorney general. So we don't have the slightest [4:05] idea other than the fact that the whole thing stinks to high heaven. And the fact is Donald [4:10] Trump cannot get over the fact that he lost Georgia in 2020, that he lost the election in 2020, [4:16] my fear is now he sees the political winds turning against him, and he's going to try to [4:21] interfere in the 2026 elections, something that a year ago I didn't think would be possible. [4:26] That's a tremendous statement. But just to clarify here, it was Reuters that first reported that [4:30] Gabbard went to Puerto Rico back in the spring to seize voting machines. Was Congress informed [4:35] at all? Or did you learn about it in the press? I believe the first we ever heard about this [4:40] was from the press itself. Wow. So you've laid out that the intelligence agencies usually focus [4:45] overseas, but the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House, [4:47] the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House, [4:47] the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House, the White House is arguing that [4:48] the director was there for good reason and that federal law, they argue, assigns a DNI [4:54] statutory responsibility to lead counterintelligence matters related to election security, election [4:59] voting system risks, software voter registration databases. You're concerned, but are your fellow [5:05] Republicans on the committee concerned about this? Well, here's the ironic thing, Margaret. Many of [5:10] the protections for our election system were put in place during the first Trump administration. [5:17] Right. We set up systems. [5:17] CISA, the cybersecurity agency to help work with state and local elections. There was an FBI center [5:23] set up for foreign malign influence, foreign influence. And then we put into law something [5:28] called the Foreign Malign Influence Center at the Director of National Intelligence Office. [5:32] All of those entities have been basically disbanded. CISA cut by a third, the FBI center [5:38] cut back, the ODNI's center cut back, which we think is frankly counter to the law. But it's all, [5:45] in terms of the ODNI, has to be involved of foreign influence. Right. [5:48] Foreign involvement. There has been no evidence of that to date. [5:51] Where is Chair Cotton on this, though? [5:53] We have jointly been making sure that we get updates on election security. And I think we're [6:01] going to see more of that to come because this is critical. And my concern is that when we see [6:09] artificial intelligence tools and others, it was almost child's play what happened in 2016. [6:14] China, Russia, Iran, others could be interfering. We've not seen evidence to date. [6:18] Yeah. [6:19] Gabbard, if she's got any evidence, should have provided it to the Congress. [6:23] I think this was an effort where Donald Trump can't get over the fact that he lost Georgia. [6:28] So obsessed. And it begs the question, what was Gabbard doing there? And it frankly begs [6:32] the question, why was the president even aware of this investigation before the search warrant [6:36] was issued? [6:37] Well, we would love to put those questions to the director and have asked to do so. But [6:43] now that you are here, can you just button this up for me? Because we're talking about 2020 and that's [6:48] what Fulton County focus was about. But you also said you think in 2026 there's an effort to [6:55] interfere. What evidence do you have of that? This was what I'm seeing from the president's [6:59] own comments about nationalizing elections and putting Republicans in charge counter to [7:05] the Constitution. We've seen these activities in Georgia where could there be some effort [7:12] that suddenly gives him an excuse to try to take some of these federalization efforts? We've seen, [7:20] ICE, we focus a lot of this activity on ICE in terms of they're going rogue in Minneapolis. [7:26] But there is a very real threat without reforms at ICE that you could have ICE patrols around [7:32] polling stations. And people would say, well, why would that matter if they're all American citizens? [7:36] Yeah, non-citizens cannot vote. [7:38] Because we've seen ICE discriminate against Latino families. We've seen as well [7:46] mixed families where someone may be legal and others not. And candidly, you don't need to do a [7:51] lot to discourage people from voting. And we've more recently seen ICE starting to use technology [7:57] where they can get information about Americans. Recently, there was an individual in Minnesota [8:02] that got denied a global entry card to get through TSA quicker because he or she appeared at a [8:10] protest rally. Do we really want ICE having that information? [8:13] Is that what you just said? Hypothetically, that was what happened in [8:15] Minnesota. Hypothetically, if ICE is getting information and you've got an unpaid parking [8:20] ticket, would you vote for them? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. [8:20] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. [8:21] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. [8:22] Would you go vote if you've got an unpaid parking ticket thinking that an ICE patrol might be at [8:26] a polling station? This is unchartered territory. And yet you've got the president's own words in [8:32] many ways raising concerns because he says, well, gosh, we Republicans ought to take over elections [8:38] in 15 states. We're going to talk about some of that and the operations at the local level with [8:42] David Becker, our elections expert ahead in the show, and the immigration reform. [8:46] But I want to ask you about what's going on with Director Gabbard, because there was [8:51] a whistleblower who filed a complaint against her personally and offered to come to Congress [8:57] to share the information, according to the attorney for this whistleblower. [9:01] This is about a complaint that two inspectors general, one of them Biden era, [9:06] concluded had a non-credible nature. You've viewed a redacted version of the complaint, [9:12] as I understand it. Do you accept their conclusions? Well, first of all, [9:17] the previous inspector general, who'd been a long-term professional, viewed it as credible. [9:21] The new... Which of the two complaints? [9:24] The original... I can't talk about the contents of the complaint. I'm old-fashioned, [9:28] it's classified. And the complaint is so redacted, it's hard to get to the bottom. [9:32] I got additional questions. My concern, what the director did, [9:36] is that this information was not relayed to Congress. There is a process. And we didn't even, [9:43] we, and I mean we, the gang of eight, didn't even hear about the complaint until November. [9:48] We only saw it in February. And we've got this complete, [9:52] complete contradiction where the then-lawyer for Director Gabbard said he shared the [9:59] responsibility. She had to share this with Congress in June, the legal responsibility. [10:04] She later stated that she was not aware of her responsibility. Ignorance of the law is not [10:10] an excuse if you're the director of national intelligence. [10:13] Well, as I understand it, because when it's deemed non-credible, [10:17] it is not necessarily an urgent concern that starts at a time clock that would force... [10:21] There was a ruling... [10:22] Congressman... [10:23] ...of urgency by the first Inspector General. That was contradicted by the Trump Inspector [10:27] General. But the process was still ongoing. The fact that this sat out there for six, [10:33] seven, eight months now, and we are only seeing it now, raises huge concerns in and of itself. [10:38] Well, I know you said you will not share what the intercept and the intelligence was about, [10:43] or the complaint itself. But CBS has been told by a senior intelligence official, the whistleblower [10:48] complaint included reference to an intelligence intercept between two foreign nationals in which [10:53] he mentioned someone close to President Donald Trump. U.S. intelligence did not verify whether [10:58] the conversation itself was more than just gossip. Will you be able to speak to the whistleblower? [11:05] Will you be able to see this underlying intelligence? [11:07] My understanding is the whistleblower has been waiting for guidance, [11:12] legal guidance, on how to approach the committee. [11:14] Does the whistleblower still work for the U.S. government? [11:17] I don't have any idea. [11:19] Will you be able to view the intelligence, the intercept itself that she's accused of not sharing? [11:23] My question is, we are trying to get both the redactions... [11:25] My question is, we are trying to get both the redactions... [11:25] My question is, we are trying to get both the redactions... [11:25] ...and the underlying intelligence. [11:28] And that is in process. I'm not going to talk to the content itself. [11:33] But this whole question, remember this whistleblower, came forward in May. [11:39] It's now February of the following year, and we're still asking questions. [11:44] Tom Cotton, the chair, says he's comfortable with the process to date, but on the... [11:50] I am not comfortable with the process, the timing, and I can't make a judgment [11:55] about the credibility or the veracity because it's been so heavily redacted. [12:00] Well, the director is frustrated with you personally and issued this really long, [12:03] blistering statement saying you have repeatedly lied to the American people, [12:07] that the media also lies, and that she never had the whistleblower complaint in her possession [12:14] and saw it for the first time two weeks ago, I guess the actual hard copy. [12:19] So do you care to respond to this accusation that you are lying? [12:22] I would respond that I do not believe that Director Gabbard... [12:25] ...is competent for her position. [12:28] I don't believe that she is making America safer by not following the rules and procedures [12:34] on getting whistleblower complaints to the Congress in a timely fashion. [12:38] I believe she has been totally inappropriate showing up on a domestic criminal investigation [12:45] in Georgia around voting machines. [12:47] I think she has not been appropriate or competent in terms of, frankly, cutting back on [12:54] investigations into foreign-line influence. [12:56] Mm-hmm. [12:56] Literally dismembering the foreign-line [12:59] influence center that's at the director of national intelligence. [13:03] And we are going to agree to disagree about who's telling the truth. [13:08] And I believe her own general counsel, who's now her deputy general counsel, [13:14] testified this week that he shared with Director Gabbard in June her legal obligations. [13:20] Well, the NSA has released a statement saying that they are abiding by the law. [13:23] We do invite Director Gabbard on this program. [13:26] Before I let you go, I have to say, I have a question. [13:27] I have to ask you about Iran. [13:29] There have been a number of think tanks who have published photos of what [13:33] they believe is evidence of Iran reconstituting and rebuilding its [13:36] nuclear program that the U.S. bombed eight months ago. [13:39] Are they rebuilding? [13:40] When we struck Iran, Iranians' nuclear capabilities, our military did a great job. [13:49] It was not totally obliterated. [13:51] So that standard that the president himself set, and Iran has been indicated in public documents, [13:58] is trying to reconstitute. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:00] Mm-hmm. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:02] Mm-hmm. [14:02] And the big fear, is that we don't have the ability to bring the full power of pressure [14:12] against Iran. [14:12] A few weeks back, when the Iranian people bravely were in the streets, and there might [14:14] have been a moment, we couldn't strike because the aircraft carrier that was usually in the [14:18] Mediterranean was off the coast of Venezuela doing the blockade there. [14:22] You believe that's why the January strikes were called out. [14:23] On top of that- [14:23] On top of that, on top of that as well, we were unable to bring the full force of pressure [14:29] of our allies in Europe against Iran, because at that very same moment, regarding that [14:32] same moment president trump was disrupting nato with his greenland play we are stronger when we [14:39] use our allies when we have our full military capabilities in region and that military is [14:46] getting stretched as good as we are as the president gets engaged in activities all over [14:51] the world you support the diplomacy underway now i support diplomacy absolutely all right uh senator [14:57] mark warner thank you for your time today base nation will be back in one minute stay with us [15:02] there is some devastating news out of the winter olympics in cortina italy legendary downhill skier [15:12] lindsey vaughn racing on a badly injured knee crashed just seconds into her race this morning [15:18] the 41-year-old vaughn lost control while taking a turn and then spun briefly in the air [15:23] she was airlifted off the race course to a nearby hospital just nine days ago vaughn ruptured her [15:29] acl in a training race in switzerland some good news for team usa though teammate breezy [15:36] jenner is back in the race with the team and the team is back in the race with the team and the [15:36] team is back in the race with the team and the team is back in the race with the team and the team [15:36] johnson won the gold medal for that race becoming the first american to win gold in this year's games [15:42] and we turn now to texas republican congressman tony gonzalez good morning good morning thanks [15:47] vernier for having me on uh let's talk about immigration we've spoken before you have this [15:52] border district you know a lot of border patrol agents personally your constituents so friday [15:58] homeland security funding is going to expire right and there's this standoff in the senate [16:02] in particular democrats are demanding a number of reforms and i want to lay them out here [16:07] and this is sort of the cost of their vote democrats want to require a judicial warrant [16:12] not just an administrative one to enter private property they want federal law enforcement agents [16:17] to show id wear body cameras standard uniforms no masks protect sensitive locations like schools and [16:23] churches stop racial profiling coordinate with local jurisdictions to prosecute crimes [16:28] are you on board with any of these demands do you see a deal um i think we need to work through it [16:35] there's some things that make sense of a lot of things that don't uh just a few days ago this was [16:39] a bipartisan vote and all of a sudden now the democrats are trying to hold the country hostage [16:44] i'll tell you what's not going to be in there amnesty for illegal aliens i'll tell you what's [16:48] not going to be there stripping away protections for law enforcement officers that are trying to [16:52] protect themselves if rioters get to wear masks then then law enforcement gets to wear a mask [16:58] as well what can be in there i think the body cameras make a lot of sense i was really encouraged [17:02] to see secretary noam and tom homan uh execute [17:05] that i think those are those are good parts of it and another another thing that works going back to [17:09] my district another thing that works is communication uh i think it'd be very very key [17:13] if there were communication liaisons in all the communities that ice has meaning not changing [17:18] policy just sharing communication from the community let's say the city manager let's say [17:23] city council community leaders up to the administration and back down i saw the [17:27] biden administration do this with ranch liaisons when the ranchers were really upset and once again [17:32] that helped these are a couple things that i think could make it could [17:35] be could be the glue that gets this package going if the administration will go along with that [17:40] coordination with local officials yeah absolutely the liaison piece makes a lot of sense to me i mean [17:44] that one once again you're not yeah ice is not going to stop going to these communities it would [17:49] be helpful if we had many tom homans all throughout the country basically saying this is [17:54] what we're doing not leaving things to what ifs and letting other people fill that void but an [17:59] actual sharing up and down the chain of command let me ask you about the warrants here um the [18:05] law in the first trump administration changed how to use warrants and arrests they permit [18:10] warrantless arrests as well this wasn't done even during the first trump administration [18:15] leader jeffries was on another network this morning and said judicial warrants should [18:19] absolutely be required before ice agents can storm private property it should not be controversial [18:25] uh this demand they just want adherence to fourth amendment constitutional protections [18:32] as a conservative shouldn't a judge be consulted of course i believe in the fourth amendment but [18:36] uh we see these lines in the play Vill Dawg right now when we get a legislation that is [18:41] based on what powers come for Gabe issue um what their power is um and the buds are [18:45] saying that it is pretty predictable therock judgments have been made clear that the judge [18:50] should not hold up everything we're seeing judges all over the country uh go beyond their level of [18:55] authority and so if a law enforcement officer let's just say for example sees a crime that's [19:00] being committed or has due pro or has due uh cause then why can't they go in there these administrative [19:05] warrants they aren't new all of a sudden the left new interpretation of them and the ice director has disclosed that well they're complaining about the the use of them but if you're an [19:06] How are you supposed to get that criminal that's in somebody's community? [19:09] How are you supposed to remove them? [19:10] That's what worries me. [19:11] If we allow judges to be the roadblock, it doesn't keep our community safe. [19:17] So you, that's a hard line for you in terms of you would never get on board with requiring [19:23] that a judicial warrant be required to enter private property? [19:28] Administrative warrants work. [19:29] I want to give law enforcement every tool they need to go out and apprehend these convicted [19:35] criminals that are loose in our community. [19:37] To me, that makes a lot of sense. [19:38] Why you would want to shackle your own law enforcement from keeping our community safe [19:42] makes no sense to me. [19:43] Well, the Fourth Amendment protects all people, regardless of citizenship or national origin, [19:47] from unreasonable search and seizure. [19:49] So some of those collateral arrests are warrantless. [19:52] But that's the politics of this funding bill. [19:56] I'll put the policy aside for a second because I want to ask you about the cross-examination [20:00] you're going to have the opportunity to make this week because you have the head of ICE, [20:05] CBP, and another agency. [20:07] You've come before the Homeland Security Committee. [20:09] The Republican chair said he has questions about training of immigration agents and [20:13] their use of force. [20:14] Are you comfortable with what you saw happen in Minneapolis? [20:17] I mean, are Republicans going to approach this in a partisan way or hold them to account? [20:22] What happened in Minneapolis, nobody in this country should want. [20:25] We should all strive not to be Minneapolis. [20:28] We don't want to see local communities not work with the federal government, and we don't [20:32] want to see— [20:33] The leaders of the agencies are the ones you're going to be questioning, though. [20:35] Of course. [20:36] And I want to know. [20:37] What are you doing to work with others within the community so that way it's not just the [20:41] ICE going in alone? [20:42] It shouldn't be that way. [20:43] And this is what we're seeing. [20:45] Secretary Noem has been very clear on trying to build these relationships out, and Tom [20:49] Holman is delivering on this by going in there. [20:52] Eighty counties are now all of a sudden working with ICE, allowing us in their jails. [20:56] That was a choice by the administration. [20:57] That works. [20:58] To start working with locals. [20:59] That was a change. [21:00] They've been trying to do this. [21:02] The problem is, is you've got so many local municipalities that don't want to communicate, [21:07] don't want to work together. [21:08] And when that happens, your city burns. [21:10] We don't want Los Angeles. [21:12] We shouldn't want Minneapolis. [21:13] People can protest. [21:14] People can be able to say, hey, we won't agree with certain policy, but there needs to be [21:18] more collaboration at the local, state, and federal level. [21:21] Well, we're going to have to take a break here, but I have more questions for you on [21:24] the other side of it. [21:25] So if you would stay with us, we'll be right back with more Face the Nation. [21:33] As Americans struggle with the heated debate about immigration enforcement tactics and [21:37] public safety here at home. [21:39] Some of the U.S. athletes competing in the Winter Olympics in Milan have acknowledged [21:43] the complicated feelings they're navigating as they represent their country on the biggest [21:48] stage in global sports. [21:51] It brings up mixed emotions to represent the U.S. right now, I think. [21:54] It's a little hard. [21:57] There's obviously a lot going on that I'm not the biggest fan of, and I think a lot [22:01] of people aren't. [22:02] Just because I'm wearing the flag doesn't mean I represent everything that's going on [22:05] in the U.S. [22:06] I love the USA. [22:08] And I think I would be happy to be a part of it. [22:08] I would be happy to be a part of it. [22:09] I would never want to represent a different country in the Olympics. [22:13] With that being said, you know, a lot of times athletes are hesitant to talk about political [22:18] views and how we feel about things. [22:22] I feel heartbroken about what's happened in the United States. [22:25] I think that as a country, we need to focus on respecting everybody's rights and making [22:31] sure that we're treating our citizens as well as anybody with love and respect. [22:36] And I hope that when people look at athletes competing in the Olympics, they realize that [22:40] that's the America that we're trying to represent. [22:42] Those comments have drawn tough criticism from a number of Republicans, including [22:47] President Trump himself. [22:57] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [22:58] We return now to our conversation with Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez of Texas. [23:04] On the homeland security front, we see in our CBS polling that the credibility of the [23:09] president's deportation policy is in question. [23:13] You can see it right there. [23:14] A lot of the American public just doesn't support the methods used for mass deportation, even though they're not in the U.S. [23:17] They're not in the U.S. [23:18] They're not in the U.S. [23:19] Even though they like the idea of mass deportation. [23:22] In the past, you've questioned whether the administration was really focusing on the [23:25] worst of the worst. [23:26] You said, don't deport abuelita. [23:28] Do you think that they are actually hearing the concern that people like you have raised? [23:34] And do you think there's any improvement? [23:36] Very early on, I mentioned, hey, if we go down this route as a party, we're not going [23:39] to be successful. [23:40] And we're seeing some of that with some of these special elections that are happening. [23:43] I am encouraged. [23:44] I've seen the administration highlight more unconvicted criminal aliens. [23:48] I'm seeing Secretary Noem and Tom Homan. [23:50] In their messaging or in their arrests? [23:52] In their arrests and in their focus of going into the jails. [23:54] If you go into a jail and you go cell by cell, that makes a lot more sense to American people [23:59] than going house by house, going, are you American citizen or not? [24:03] And it's safer. [24:04] It's safer for the agents as well. [24:05] So I think if we go down that route, we, as a Republican Party, will be successful. [24:10] The other part of it, too, is to talk about legal immigration. [24:13] The president has mentioned this many times. [24:15] Last week, there was 65,000 workers. [24:17] That's a lot. [24:18] And he's talking about the federal visa that he signed off on where he goes, you're not [24:21] invited to this country if you come in illegally, but if you're here legal, we encourage you [24:25] to come do it the right way. [24:27] Well, I want to talk about that again in a moment. [24:29] But just to pick up on what you mentioned in your home state, you saw this stunning [24:34] win by Democrat Taylor Remet in what had been a reliably red district and in fact, one of [24:40] 26 state house seats that have flipped from Republican to Democrat nationally since President [24:46] Trump took office. [24:47] This wasn't a one-off, in other words. [24:50] And in the Texas press, there's a lot of focus on the Latino voters as having really swung [24:56] back or swung to the Democratic Party. [24:59] Why? [25:01] What's happening? [25:02] People are anxious. [25:03] Is it the deportation policy? [25:05] It's some of what's being portrayed. [25:07] And one of the things I think is very effective for the administration is for them to highlight [25:11] the people that they're deporting, put them on the website, show them and go, these are [25:16] the folks that we're coming after. [25:17] I would argue the Hispanic vote is what gave us, the Republicans, the House, the Senate [25:23] and the White House. [25:24] And if we want to keep that long term, we do have to make a shift, not necessarily in [25:28] policy, but in communication. [25:30] I mentioned this earlier, a communication liaison of someone saying, hey, this is what [25:34] we're doing, working with others. [25:36] So it's not just a surprise. [25:37] Prime example, San Antonio. [25:38] We have a new ice facility built in San Antonio. [25:40] A lot of people are anxious. [25:41] They don't know what's happening. [25:43] This is $125 million that's coming to the community. [25:46] We have 1,200 jobs. [25:47] And after it gets established, there'll be another $125 million with 325 good paying jobs [25:54] for our local community. [25:55] But respectfully, in the past, you have said this isn't just a PR problem. [25:58] You actually looked at the numbers and found that it was not the worst of the worst in [26:03] those detention facilities. [26:04] Right. [26:05] It's not a PR problem. [26:06] It has to be. [26:07] It is a policy problem. [26:08] It has to be a policy. [26:09] And what I am seeing is they are going after the worst of the worst. [26:12] They're talking about we're going after the worst of the worst. [26:15] The part I think we can improve on. [26:17] Is communicating with the local municipalities. [26:20] Those that don't have an idea and be able to go, no, you have a seat at the table. [26:24] We want you to have a seat at the table. [26:26] Even if it's different. [26:27] Even if it's a different conversation or a different ideology, you should have a seat [26:30] at the table. [26:31] So that way your citizens know what's happening in your community. [26:34] So Trump was not the first president of the United States to detain children. [26:39] Sure. [26:40] You have this facility, though, in your district, Dilley, and that is for family detentions. [26:45] That's where little five-year-olds go. [26:47] That's where little five-year-old Liam Ramos from Minnesota was held before a judge, that's [26:50] the picture of him there, ordered him released. [26:53] He was ordered released because his family has a pending asylum claim, a legal process. [26:59] He had entered with U.S. government permission through a process that the Biden administration [27:04] had deemed legal. [27:05] The current administration does not. [27:06] The CBP won out. [27:09] Liam's father gave an interview to Telemundo. [27:11] And you read the transcript. [27:13] He's talking about this five-year-old. [27:15] He's not okay. [27:16] He's waking up at night crying. [27:18] He's worried he's going to be taken again. [27:21] It's psychological trauma, according to the father. [27:24] And the administration is still trying to deport him. [27:27] Do you understand why they are so focused on this five-year-old and his dad if they [27:32] did come in through the front door with U.S. government permission? [27:35] Well, the front door was via an app that Biden knew exactly what he was doing. [27:40] And he created this huge mess that now President Trump is there to clean up. [27:44] But he came in the front door. [27:45] He wasn't sneaking across the border. [27:46] Through an app. [27:47] That wasn't vetted. [27:48] And the bottom line is that he's likely, they're not going to qualify for asylum. [27:52] So what do you do with all the people that go through the process and do not qualify [27:55] for asylum? [27:56] You deport them. [27:57] I understand the five-year-old and it, you know, it breaks my heart. [28:01] I have a five-year-old at home. [28:02] I also think, what about that five-year-old U.S. citizen? [28:05] You feel comfortable defending that? [28:07] I feel comfortable. [28:08] We have to have a nation of laws. [28:10] If we don't have a nation of laws. [28:11] They were following the law. [28:13] I don't see this. [28:14] That's the rough. [28:15] You're on it. [28:16] We have to. [28:17] That's the last administration's regulation not to be legal. [28:20] We can be compassionate and we can also, we can also enforce our laws. [28:25] And I think that's the secret sauce that the administration and Congress must do. [28:29] Let's enforce our laws, but let's do it in a humane way. [28:32] The facility in Dilley, I've visited there many times. [28:35] I've visited dozens of different facilities. [28:37] It is a nice facility. [28:39] It's a detention facility for people that are in the country illegally that are about [28:42] to be deported. [28:43] But it is a nice facility. [28:44] Nicer than some elementary schools here in San Antonio. [28:46] I think that's true. [28:47] Thank you. [28:48] Advocates have said otherwise. [28:49] But quickly before I let you go, a number of Republican lawmakers have objected to the [28:52] video that the president and his staff posted to a social media account, the one of President [28:58] Obama and the former first lady. [28:59] Do you think he needs to apologize for it? [29:02] It's up to the president. [29:03] There's no room in this country for racism, anti-Semitism, socialism. [29:07] All the isms need to go. [29:08] But what I think it was that at the end, I mean, I think it was very, very upsetting [29:13] to a lot of people. [29:14] What? [29:15] What? [29:17] What? [29:18] What? [29:19] It was about election integrity. [29:20] It was about election integrity. [29:21] And so, the bulk of it was on election integrity, which is a very important topic. [29:23] What I suspect's going to happen is the White House is going to, in the coming days, issue [29:26] a memo on their policy for this upcoming election, and I suspect Director of National Intelligence [29:34] is going to be at the center part of building that out and making sure our midterm elections [29:39] are safe and secure. [29:40] And I know the president claimed the video was credible. [29:43] Also claimed he had watched it but then not seen that part of it with the racism. [29:46] It was at the very end. It was at the very end for one second. It was really weird. [29:49] The president of the United States and his staff, wouldn't you expect that [29:52] they actually look at what they do before they do it? [29:56] The president of the United States should not be worrying about all the people that are upset with [29:59] him. If he's doing that, he's not keeping our country safe. I did appreciate them taking it [30:02] down. I did appreciate him saying, hey, look, you know, that shouldn't have been on there. [30:06] But should the staffer who allegedly did it be fired? Should there be consequences for something [30:10] like that? Do you think that video is actually credible? [30:12] The president can make that decision. We just had Jeffrey, you know, Hakeem Jeffries get up there [30:17] and say the F word to the president. I mean, the direction our politics is going is not the right [30:23] way. We need to pull it back and we need to go, wait a second here. How do we make sure we're [30:26] safe? How do we make sure our economy is thriving? How do we make sure Americans are better off today [30:31] than they were yesterday? All right, Congressman Gonzalez, [30:33] thank you for your time. And we'll have David Becker ahead. We'll talk about that video [30:37] in a moment. We're joined now by David Becker. He is the executive director of the Center for [30:45] Election Innovation and Research. [30:47] And a CBS News election law contributor. Always good to have you here, David. [30:52] Great to be back with you, Margaret. [30:54] I want to pick up on a few things that have come up in the program. Senator Warner voiced what [30:59] some Democrats are concerned about, arguing that President Trump is laying the groundwork to [31:04] undermine the upcoming election or interfere in it in some way. And in fact, during the program, [31:11] the president is tweeting about American elections being rigged, stolen, and a laughingstock all [31:17] around the world. [31:17] What do you think of these statements here? Are both parties undermining confidence in our [31:26] election? What do election officials that you speak to feel and think right now? [31:32] Yeah, it's very hard to predict where this is going, but we can look at what's happened already. [31:37] The president has signed an unprecedented executive order regarding elections trying [31:41] to dictate policy to the states. That's now been enjoined, blocked by three different federal [31:46] courts. His Department of Justice is seeking highly sensitive, [31:50] comprehensive data on hundreds of millions of American voters, is suing 24 states and D.C. [31:56] Two federal courts just in the past few weeks have blocked that, and the remainder are still [32:00] to be heard. The cybersecurity apparatus that Senator Warner talked about that had been built [32:06] up under the first Trump administration to assist election officials has been dismantled. So when I [32:11] talk to election officials, they're very concerned about this. I think it's safe to say this is [32:15] unprecedented. We have never seen a president try to exert executive authority over elections [32:20] in the states like we have. And of course, this is contrary to the Constitution, which [32:25] specifically grants states the authority to run elections under Article 1, Section 4, the [32:31] Elections Clause. Congress can also act. And if Congress does, of course, those laws will be [32:35] followed. But both parties have tried to pass sweeping bills in the last five or six years and [32:39] have failed. So the Constitution, as you just point out, states it is the states who are going [32:47] to run these elections. But the president, I want to play what he said. So the [32:50] president has said that he wants the Republican Party to nationalize voting and take over voting [32:58] procedures in 15 states. Take a listen. [33:00] PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, Take a look at Detroit. Take a look at [33:04] Pennsylvania. Take a look at Philadelphia. You go take a look at Atlanta. Look at some of the [33:09] places, horrible corruption on elections. And the federal government should not allow that. The [33:15] federal government should get involved. These are agents of the federal government to count the votes. [33:21] If they can't count the votes legally and honestly, then somebody else should take over. [33:27] So what would prevent the president from doing something you just told us is unconstitutional? [33:34] Well, the president might try to act, and that's why it's so hard to predict exactly what's [33:39] going to happen. But the courts have been very firm on holding the limits of executive power [33:44] under the Constitution. There was just a court decision a couple of days ago from the state of [33:48] Oregon, a district court there, that denied DOJ access to this highly sensitive, [33:52] uh, voter data that they were seeking from Oregon, and specifically said, again, [33:58] that the Constitution is clear. The founders carved out elections specially to say the [34:03] federal government can only act if Congress acts, the states have the authority, and they expressly [34:08] excluded the executive from that at all. They were very concerned about the excesses of an [34:14] executive, a president who would seek to consolidate more power than the Constitution [34:18] granted by seizing the mechanisms of elections. So two other things I want to run [34:23] through with you. The White House took down that video that we were just discussing with [34:28] Congressman Gonzales. The focus has been on the racist portion of it, which was widely condemned. [34:32] The video leading up to it that Congressman Gonzales defended was about election software [34:39] and security. In that, when you listen to it, you hear descriptions of problems with [34:47] technology and things that the speaker says were anomalies, like in 2025, key states stopped [34:54] counting at a certain time. Can you fact check some of this for us? [34:58] Yeah, um, this is a very common, uh, methodology for those that are spreading lies about the [35:05] elections to find, just throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. And the rest of that [35:10] video, in addition to the ending, was also troubling, because it was a lot of disinformation, [35:13] just blatantly false. We have paper ballots in the United States. 98% of all Americans vote on [35:19] paper ballots. The only exclusion is the state of Louisiana, which is moving to paper ballots. That [35:24] means those [35:24] ballots can be checked against whatever the machines tally, and they are checked. Famously, [35:29] in Georgia, those paper ballots in 2020 were counted three times, three different ways, [35:34] once entirely by hand, over 5 million ballots counted by hand in five days, [35:39] with observation from both campaigns and observers. There's no way to get around the [35:44] fact that this is the, 2020 was the most scrutinized election in American history. And [35:49] every time when courts reviewed it, when people who lied about the election were taken to court, [35:53] the work of [35:54] election officials withstood that scrutiny. It's really remarkable. Not only are our elections not [36:00] rigged, they're as transparent and verifiable and as secure as they've ever been. No matter [36:04] whether you like the outcome or not, and we're seeing disinformation being spread, in this case [36:09] by the President of the United States, targeted at his own supporters, at others who might not [36:13] like the outcome of elections, and unfortunately, some are believing it. [36:16] Well, it's unusual, because the President won the election, [36:19] and Republicans won the last election. So when he is saying now that suddenly, [36:25] the system is broken, it seemed to work when it elected him, but it didn't work when he lost in [36:32] 2020. That is what is contradictory in sort of just the common sense version. [36:39] That's exactly right. [36:40] But on the facts of it, you're saying this has actually been verified time and time again. But [36:46] those ballots you just talked about from Fulton County, we have body camera footage of these FBI [36:50] agents going and taking the ballots. Why would the FBI now be taking the ballots? Why was the director [36:56] of the National Intelligence there? And what would they do with these ballots? [36:59] This is a great question, and it still has not been answered. First of all, [37:03] there was no crime committed in 2020. Those ballots have been counted and reviewed so many [37:08] times. We know exactly what happened in Georgia in 2020. Joe Biden won that state by a relatively [37:13] narrow margin of 11,779 votes. In 2024, Donald Trump won that state. Democrats didn't somehow [37:20] have the magical ability while out of the White House to steal an election in 2020, and then [37:25] forget to use that power in 2024. That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. [37:27] That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. [37:28] So we know exactly what happened. If there was a true, honest review of those ballots, [37:33] it will confirm exactly what the result was, just as when the cyber ninjas reviewed the [37:38] Maricopa County ballots in Arizona, they found the same exact outcome. As for the director of [37:43] National Intelligence being in Fulton County, there is no viable reason to have a high-level [37:49] political appointee during the execution of a search warrant. That search warrant has many [37:55] defects, as the body cam footage showed. There was a defect. [37:57] In the address when they first showed up, they had to go back and get a corrected search warrant. [38:02] And there's also this issue of the statute of limitations. There's a five-year statute [38:09] of limitations under federal law for any of the crimes that they mentioned in the warrant. There [38:13] were two specific statutes. That five-year statute has expired by any measure. And so [38:18] I'm not sure why a magistrate signed off on it. We're not sure why the DNI was in Fulton County [38:23] inside a local election warehouse. We've heard shifting explanations first. [38:27] The Deputy Attorney General said she happened to be in Atlanta. I don't know that that's [38:31] particularly credible. And then we heard the president directed her, and then Attorney General [38:35] Bondi directed her. We have no idea what actually happened. [38:37] Well, we checked, and at least nine top Trump administration officials by CBS criteria raised [38:41] out about the validity or integrity of the 2020 election. That count does not include the [38:45] president of the United States himself. David Becker, thank you. We'll be back in a moment. [38:50] We turn now to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He is also on the board of Pfizer and [39:00] UnitedHealthcare. Dr. Gottlieb, [39:02] welcome back. [39:03] Thank you. [39:04] You have a history of making accurate predictions that are also terrifying on [39:09] this program. And it was around this time last year that you said you were very concerned about [39:14] the measles outbreak and that it would spread. You're right. In South Carolina, about 900 [39:19] reported cases, largest outbreak since measles was declared eliminated. You got out in [39:24] Disneyland in California two cases. Here in D.C., cases detected. Should we avoid mass gatherings? [39:33] How concerned should we be? [39:34] Look, I don't think we should be worried about mass gatherings at this point. I think that this [39:41] is going to get worse, unfortunately, before it resolves. Last year, we had 2,000 cases. This year, [39:45] so far, we have 750 cases reported. It's going to be a lot higher by the end of the year. I think [39:50] this is going to be a long cycle. Right now, if you look at the people who are getting infected [39:53] with measles, the majority of people are between the ages of 5 and 17. They're not toddlers. And [39:58] we're seeing vaccination rates decline among toddlers, really, as part of a broader movement [40:03] away from pediatric vaccines. So, we're going to have to wait and see. We're going to have to wait and see. [40:04] From pediatric vaccines in this country, as those toddlers age into school-age settings, [40:09] the scope of the measles outbreaks are going to continue to escalate in this country. [40:13] If you think back to the early 1990s, 1991, there were about 25,000 cases of measles. [40:18] In 1992, we had about 10,000. Vaccination rates had declined in the 1990s. Only about 88 percent [40:24] of American children were vaccinated for measles, mumps and rubella. Right now, it's about 90 percent. [40:29] But in some of the states where you're seeing these outbreaks, the rate is as low as 81 percent [40:33] in Alaska, 88 percent in the United States. So, we're going to have to wait and see. We're going [40:34] to have to wait and see. We're going to have to wait and see. We're going to have to wait and see. [40:34] We're going to have to wait and see. We're going to have to wait and see. We're going to have to wait and see. [40:34] And a number of states that are having outbreaks right now. So, we're starting to get down to [40:38] lower levels. And I think that's going to continue to decline. And, again, as these children who [40:41] aren't getting vaccinated age into school-age settings, they're going to start spreading [40:46] broader and larger outbreaks. So, I think this is a long cycle, especially now that this has [40:51] gotten embedded in political psyche in this country. I think this is a generational change. [40:56] Yeah. Well, and those percentages you point out are important because we're below herd immunity. [41:01] And as I understand it... [41:03] That's right. [41:04] just the United States. [41:05] Britain, Canada, Spain, a number of European and Central Asian countries lost their measles [41:10] elimination status. [41:11] This is a global anti-vaccine movement, it would seem. [41:14] DR. [41:17] MICHAEL MINA, Yeah, look, I think that that's right. [41:18] And I think a lot of this comes out of the COVID pandemic, where people felt compelled [41:22] to take vaccines that they had hesitations around through state action. [41:26] I thought that was a mistake at the time. [41:27] I still think it's a mistake. [41:29] We talked about in this show that would breed an anti-vaccine backlash. [41:32] And I think that's what we're seeing. [41:33] And it's given voice to a lot of people who are anti-vax from the outset, who are now [41:37] gaining political resonance and starting to drive a lot of the policy agenda, including [41:41] at the Department of Health and Human Services. [41:43] So the scope of these is going to continue to grow. [41:45] It's not just MMR. [41:47] It's diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis as well. [41:50] We're seeing pertussis outbreaks in this country. [41:52] Those are going to continue to grow. [41:54] So we're in a long cycle right now. [41:55] And I think it's important that we continue to educate people about the importance of [41:58] these vaccines, especially the MMR vaccines. [42:01] Measles is very contagious. [42:02] And, as you said, the herd of measles is very contagious. [42:03] DR. [42:03] MAURA ANN LORENZO, M.N.: Theiny other immunity rate is about 95 percent vaccination [42:06] in a community. [42:07] In certain pockets of this country, we're well below that. [42:10] You look at some states, there's pockets of communities where their vaccination rates [42:14] are about 70 percent. [42:15] And so that's where you're seeing the outbreaks, particularly in South Carolina, Texas. [42:19] Florida has an outbreak right now. [42:20] There's been big outbreaks in Utah and Arizona as well. [42:23] Arizona had 250 cases, Utah about the same. [42:27] STEPHANIE SY, There was a hearing this week with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. [42:31] He's the NIH director. [42:33] He did say people should get their measles shot. [42:36] But he was pressed about vaccines, and he was testifying under oath. [42:40] And here is what he said. [42:41] REP. [42:43] JOHN KERRY , Do vaccines cause autism? [42:45] Tell that to the American people. [42:46] Yes? [42:48] No. [42:49] REP. [42:50] JOHN KERRY , I do not believe that the measles vaccine causes autism. [42:51] REP. [42:52] JOHN KERRY , Uh-uh. [42:53] Uh-uh. [42:54] I didn't ask measles. [42:55] Do vaccines cause autism? [42:56] REP. [42:57] JOHN KERRY , For — I have not seen a study that suggests any single vaccine [43:00] causes autism. [43:01] REP. [43:04] JOHN KERRY , I don't see any of those remarks, because I think it's important [43:05] to hear them directly. [43:07] The director claimed the next day in a social media post that he was mischaracterized and [43:12] that he's fully aligned with Secretary Kennedy on finding the root cause of autism. [43:18] Why is the messaging so muddled here? [43:21] Is it that political embeddedness you talked about? [43:24] REP. [43:27] JOHN KERRY , Look, I think a lot of the appointed officials in the administration [43:30] who work for Secretary Kennedy are reluctant to buck the secretary on this. [43:34] And the secretary has been a longstanding advocate. [43:36] Anti-vaccine advocate. [43:37] He really led the charge throughout the last two decades for the anti-vaccine movement. [43:42] Now that he's in that position, he's able to give much more voice to it and embed it [43:46] in official policy. [43:47] You know, Jay's comments there were very carefully worded. [43:50] He said no single vaccine causes autism. [43:53] The only vaccine that's been studied, as he pointed out in his Twitter post extensively, [43:57] is the MMR vaccine. [43:59] So he backed away from those comments the next day, I think because he and a lot of [44:03] other officials are reluctant to buck the secretary on this. [44:06] Mehmet Oz this morning was speaking to this issue, and he was very clear, and that's [44:10] what I would expect of him. [44:11] He's a good physician. [44:12] He was very clear on the importance of getting the MMR vaccine. [44:14] I think it's important that more officials step forward with those very clear messages. [44:18] LISA DESJARDINS- You have an op-ed talking about your personal experience with [44:22] cancer, and you link it to past infection with a virus. [44:26] Can you explain that? [44:29] REP. [44:30] JOHN KERRY , Yeah, look, I think a large part of the anti-vaccine dogma, if [44:33] you will, is that these infections aren't that serious to begin with, and, therefore, [44:37] any risk. [44:37] Theoretical or actual from the vaccines themselves isn't worth it. [44:41] It's not worth taking the vaccine to mitigate a virus that in and of itself is incidental. [44:46] That's not true. [44:47] I had Epstein-Barr virus. [44:49] It led to the development of a B-cell lymphoma. [44:51] We know that HSV-1 is associated with Alzheimer's disease. [44:55] Enterovirus is associated with type 1 diabetes. [44:57] We now believe EBV virus is associated with multiple sclerosis and maybe a causative factor [45:02] in lupus as well. [45:03] So viruses do have long-term sequelae. [45:05] LISA DESJARDINS- Well, Dr. Gottlieb, it's an important question. [45:06] REP. [45:07] MARGARET BRENNAN , Thank you for your time today. [45:08] We'll be right back. [45:09] LISA DESJARDINS- That's it for us today. [45:10] Thank you for watching. [45:11] Until next week, for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.