Face the Nation: Adams, Sadjadpour, McKenzie

[0:04] welcome back to face the nation we turn now to former u.s surgeon general dr jerome adams who [0:09] joins us this morning from indianapolis good morning to you doctor thanks for having me [0:15] margaret and i'd like to start by saying that the most important thing for your viewers to [0:19] understand is that america's most pressing health threat today isn't opioids or obesity [0:24] it's mistrust 70 of americans say they support childhood vaccines and school mandates yet a [0:29] similar majority say they do not trust health information from robert kennedy and say they [0:34] would not trust surgeon general nominee casey means so a failure to acknowledge this plummeting [0:38] trust or worse if we're seeing to accelerate it is going to hurt americans and actually margaret [0:44] according to republican pollster fabrizio ward it's going to hurt republicans in november [0:48] elections uh well that's not where i was going with the question but yes i've seen some of that [0:53] polling um and it says that the maha health guidance resonates more with voters than the [1:01] vaccine skepticism so republic [1:04] and seem to be signaling what would be more resonant with the majority of voters but [1:09] in terms of the policy at this moment in time you were president trump's surgeon general during his [1:15] first term um there are now more than 1500 confirmed measles cases in the u.s since january [1:21] according to the cdc there is this spike out in utah why can't the existing health infrastructure [1:29] stop this well that's a great question and you have to start off by understanding that almost [1:35] 50 000 people have been cut from hhs um and so uh normally we have measles cases every year we had [1:42] about 250 in 2024 we had about 2 000 last year as you mentioned we're at 1500 already this year [1:49] but normally we're able to control those outbreaks because of the cdc because of public health [1:55] infrastructure and funding all of that has been cut and now instead of one case turning into two [2:00] or three and being stopped it's turning into 20 and 50 and 100 cases of measles in the u.s so that's [2:05] going to be a big challenge for us and we're also seeing falling vaccination rates a broad group of [2:08] states are falling below that 95 threshold for uh herd immunity from measles utah colorado florida [2:16] georgia kentucky all below that 95 threshold and the further we get below that the more these [2:22] outbreaks explode well you mentioned the memo um this was a pollster who continues to consult for [2:29] the president and for republicans uh tony fabrizio in the memo he writes policies related to [2:35] vaccines and vaccine safety need to be addressed carefully and with nuance that's because overall [2:41] a slim majority of voters are not convinced there are negative health impacts from vaccines he was [2:48] speaking about how maha and maga need to continue to work together for the benefit of the republican [2:54] party but by saying there's a slim majority who are unconvinced he's making it sound like [3:01] your party really is struggling with this frankly um [3:06] absolutely are and i understand why parents um are frustrated with the health care system it is [3:12] not working for people and we've always as physicians been taught to respect patient [3:17] autonomy but the difference here is you're seeing a health secretary and an infrastructure that is [3:23] actively sowing distrust in vaccines and in the health care system i believe we can do both i [3:30] believe we can respect patients autonomy we need to make sure we're facilitating those conversations [3:36] between patients and their doctors or their pharmacists or nurses while at the same time [3:41] telling people what we know to be true and that is that childhood vaccines like measles mumps rubella [3:47] are safe um they're effective um and they're the most important public health achievement [3:53] of our lifetimes we're not going to make america healthier if we go backwards on vaccines so the [4:00] chair of the health committee senator bill cassidy who's also a physician asked casey mean she is the [4:06] doctor you referenced who is the choice of the trump administration to be the next surgeon [4:10] general he asked her whether she would recommend a mother vaccinate her child against measles [4:16] here's the part of the exchange from her confirmation hearing the nation's doctor would [4:22] you encourage her to have her child vaccinated i'm not an individual's doctor and every individual [4:26] needs to talk to their doctor before putting a medication in their body i absolutely am supportive [4:31] of the measles vaccine and i do believe vaccines save lives and are important part of the public [4:36] health strategy [4:37] so the doctor did say she's supporter supportive of the measles vaccine [4:41] why does that stop short of what you would want to hear from someone in that role [4:45] well number one i watched the the hearing this was after much pressing and equivocating number one and [4:52] she said she's not an individualist doctor that is correct but but you're applying to be the nation's [4:56] doctor for me this isn't personal or political number one and i've talked to you about this it's [5:01] about her not having the basic qualifications to do the job she does not have an active [5:06] medical license and would be the first [5:07] surgeon general ever to be in the role to not have an active medical license but beyond that to the [5:14] point you brought up in the midst of a massive measles outbreak america needs a surgeon general [5:18] who can clearly stand behind vaccines when i came in we had the opioid epidemic in an overdose [5:24] crisis imagine if i had said you know a surgeon general it's not my place to tell people to take [5:29] naloxone the opioid overdose reversal agent they should talk to their doctor about it [5:33] that would not be acceptable in that circumstance and it's not acceptable to have a surgeon general [5:37] who equivocates on vaccines much less one who can't actually practice medicine and meet the [5:43] qualifications to be a physician in the court well the doctor uh apparently has an inactive medical [5:49] license that she says she voluntarily placed on inactive uh status and i i want to talk about this [5:56] because it it seems a feature not a bug right because the hhs secretary has described dr means [6:04] as um as being perfect for this job he's saying he's not a doctor he's not a doctor he's not a [6:07] doctor he's not a doctor he's not a doctor he's not a doctor he's not a doctor he's not a doctor [6:07] he says the surgeon general is a symbol of moral authority who stands against the financial and [6:12] institutional gravities that corporatize medicine he said she was a great student and surgical [6:18] resident but she left traditional medicine because patients weren't getting better and that's why she [6:23] should be the disruptor in this moment so when you say there's distrust how do you respond to those [6:29] who say disruption is the purpose of this selection well again number one a recent axios poll came out [6:38] and that poll showed that uh 68 percent of people um who were who were questioned said they would not [6:45] trust health advice from a surgeon general casey means so you're not going to restore trust if [6:51] preemptively the public is telling you we're not trusting the person you're putting forward and [6:56] again i i don't want to underplay this every physician every nurse every pharmacist and the [7:01] public health service corps has to maintain an active license i had to fire people for not having [7:08] an active license so this is is not about disruption casey means can be a part of this [7:13] administration she can advise the white house she can advise um uh secretary kennedy as her brother [7:19] does but that does not mean she's qualified to be surgeon general of the united states [7:23] after dropping out of a residency and not having an active license [7:26] yeah and just a note there is also no uh senate confirmed cdc director currently amid the crisis [7:33] let me ask you about social media as well because there were these big cases this past week a new [7:38] jury found that meta platforms violated consumer protection laws by misleading users about the [7:44] safety of facebook of instagram and whatsapp out in california there was another lawsuit linking [7:51] meta to a young woman's depression as a doctor are you convinced that social media has a direct link [7:58] to health as a doctor and as a parent i'm convinced of these facts i have three teenage kids [8:06] we know based on surgeon general murphy's [8:09] report but there is uh increasing and and very valid evidence out there showing links between [8:15] social media use particularly at a younger age and increasing anxiety increasing depression [8:20] less sleep which actually leads to mental health problems and also obesity and so we need to as a [8:27] society understand the harms that are coming from social media similarly to the harms that [8:33] surgeon generals have pointed out before coming from cigarettes we also need to similar to cigarettes [8:39] we really need to remember that there are very high levels of negative and negative consequences [8:43] against children and that they do not have high levels of human suffering and drug use [8:46] and we need to understand that that can beful to children as well as to a young little child [8:49] and i want to point out that the fact that these substances meaning social media platforms are [8:54] incredibly addictive and uh we're hearing again in these in these lawsuits that they were specifically [8:59] designed to addict children again the way cigarette manufacturers tried to addict children [9:04] back in the day so i'm i'm happy that we're having a conversation about this the policy's going to be [9:09] keeping social media and phones out of schools. [9:12] And we need to really understand the harm [9:14] that's occurring to our children [9:16] because of this unfettered access [9:18] to screen time and social media. [9:20] Before I let you go, Secretary Kennedy [9:23] spoke to the Conservative Political Action Conference [9:25] yesterday. He said he's worried about cell phones [9:27] and recommends parents don't let their kids sleep [9:30] with phones beside the bed. [9:32] Would you agree with that recommendation? [9:34] Yes. Actually, AAP, the American Academy of Pediatrics, [9:37] the Health Department of California, [9:40] all say that we should not allow cell phones [9:42] in children's bedrooms. [9:44] It keeps them up at night. [9:46] It subjects them to bullying constantly. [9:49] And yes, it is a good practice. [9:51] And I agree with the Secretary on this. [9:53] I want to find common ground with the Secretary. [9:55] This is one place where we agree [9:57] we should not be exposing young people [9:59] to cell phones and social media, [10:01] particularly in their bedrooms at night. [10:03] All right. Doctor, thank you for your insights today. [10:07] We'll be right back. [10:09] We're on the ongoing war in Iran. [10:11] We're joined by Iran policy analyst Kareem Sajjafour, [10:14] as well as former CENTCOM commander [10:16] and CBS News contributor, retired General Frank McKenzie, [10:19] who joins us this morning from Tampa. [10:22] Good morning to you both. [10:24] Kareem, let me start with you. [10:26] Today in Islamabad, you have Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, [10:29] these self-proclaimed mediators gathered together [10:32] to talk about how to de-escalate the war. [10:35] Iran so far hasn't responded to the 15 points [10:38] the Trump administration put forward. [10:40] And Rubio said he's not even sure [10:42] who they'd be negotiating with. [10:44] So what is the reality of who we're negotiating with [10:47] and are we even negotiating? [10:50] Well, Margaret, this is a regime, [10:52] the Islamic Republic of Iran, [10:54] which came to power in 1979 taking American diplomats hostage [10:57] and now they think they have the global economy hostage. [11:00] And they're fighting a war of survival. [11:02] They're also fighting a war of revenge against President Trump. [11:05] So at the moment, they don't feel compelled to compromise, [11:08] it seems, because the trend lines are, [11:10] oil prices are going up. [11:12] American public opinion about the war is going down. [11:15] And many of these leaders that we're hoping to negotiate with [11:19] are right now living underground, fighting for their lives. [11:22] Well, to your point on that difference, [11:25] that asymmetric difference in power, General, [11:28] I want to bring you in here because one of the things [11:31] that Iran had been waiting to do was activate its militias, [11:35] or the militias it supports in Yemen, the Houthis, [11:38] over the weekend, they jumped into the fight [11:41] and fired on Israel. [11:43] Do you think that this is a game changer [11:46] given that they could not just disrupt the Strait of Hormuz [11:49] but another passageway through the Red Sea? [11:53] Margaret, I don't think it'll be a game changer. [11:56] Their ability to attack Israel is quite limited. [11:59] Yes, they will have the ability to further stop slow traffic [12:02] through the Bab el-Mandeb going up into the Suez Canal. [12:05] We have the ability to go down there and prevent that. [12:07] It will require additional resources. [12:09] But we have those resources and we can certainly do it [12:11] if that becomes necessary. [12:13] Well, the President has made clear that he needs to reopen [12:17] the Strait of Hormuz. [12:18] His language has been contradictory on some of these points [12:21] as to who's going to do it and when. [12:23] What's the military reality of making it passable? [12:29] We're on our way to doing that now, Margaret. [12:31] This is part of a plan that's been in existence for many years. [12:35] What we're doing right now is we're reducing Iranian ability [12:38] to target ships in the Strait through their short-range missiles [12:41] their drones and other activities. [12:43] We do that by maintaining air superiority over southern Iran [12:46] on a 24-7 basis, looking for where these missiles are [12:49] and striking them relentlessly. [12:51] Once we reduce those to a very low level, [12:53] then you'll be able to go in, if necessary, sweep for mines. [12:56] I'm not certain they put mines in the water yet. [12:58] I predict eventually they will. [13:00] It's their nature. [13:01] But we have the ability to do this. [13:03] We're on plan. [13:04] I'll be honest with you, Margaret. [13:06] I've simulated this many years in many positions at Central Command. [13:09] We're a little further along. [13:10] We're a little further along than we would have expected to be [13:12] at this point in all the simulations that I've seen. [13:15] I'm going to guess in your simulations, [13:17] you looked at what would happen to the Strait of Hormuz, [13:19] even though the president said no one ever thought of it. [13:21] You thought of it, didn't you? [13:24] The U.S. military thinks of a lot of things. [13:26] We certainly have thought of the Strait of Hormuz, [13:28] thought of Karg Island. [13:29] Think of all those islands on the southern littoral of Iran. [13:33] Karim, the president said the Israelis killed the second-tier pragmatist types [13:39] that he had thought he might be able to go and negotiate with. [13:42] In recent days, the name that has emerged [13:45] is the parliament speaker, Ghalibaf. [13:47] What do we know about him? [13:49] Is he someone you can make a deal with? [13:51] Ghalibaf is, importantly, a former senior Revolutionary Guard commander [13:56] and a close advisor to Mujtaba Khamenei. [13:58] Under different circumstances, [14:00] he is someone who aspires to be Iran's modern strongman leader. [14:04] I've actually met him in the World Economic Forum in Davos. [14:08] Just the fact that he shows up in Davos shows you a little bit about his worldview. [14:12] But under the current circumstances, [14:14] no one in that Iranian system is capable of changing the long-time ideology [14:21] of antipathy toward America and toward Israel, even if they wanted to. [14:26] Explain that, if you would, [14:28] because what we hear from the White House and from Israel [14:32] is that pressure will break them. [14:34] You're saying they're unbreakable? [14:37] At the moment, and this could change in the future, [14:40] but we haven't seen any cracks in the regime's resolve. [14:44] We haven't seen any cracks in the cohesion of its security forces. [14:50] And given the fact that so many of its top officials, [14:53] including the Supreme Leader, have been killed, [14:56] it's a regime which is not prepared to compromise or change its ideology. [15:01] They actually believe that antipathy towards America is part of their identity. [15:06] And if you capitulate on that, [15:08] it actually doesn't... [15:10] If you prolong your shelf life, it actually could hasten your death. [15:14] So if there's not a negotiated settlement, how does this end? [15:19] I don't see any possibility of a resolution to this conflict. [15:24] I think the U.S. and Iran are miles apart when it comes to their goals here. [15:29] Now, I think we could see a potential ceasefire that opens the Strait of Hormuz, [15:35] which would shift this back from a hot war back to a cold war. [15:39] But there's no possibility, in my view, [15:41] so long as this regime is in power, of a U.S.-Iran normalization. [15:45] General, do you agree with that assessment? [15:48] I mean, it does seem that the Trump administration is acknowledging [15:51] the regime will stay if they are at least offering to negotiate with the regime, [15:57] so it would allow for them to remain in power. [16:00] The primary goal of Iranian statecraft, Margaret, is survival of the regime. [16:06] Back in the late 1980s, they signed a truce with Iraq [16:11] when things were going very bad for Iran. [16:13] I think that's the only solution. [16:16] I think the only solution in Iranian history is known as drinking from the poison chalice. [16:21] I believe that they will break. [16:23] I believe that they will come to terms. [16:25] And it may be an imperfect solution, [16:27] but I think it would be one that would include opening the Strait of Hormuz, [16:30] possibly some deal on the missiles, on the missile systems. [16:33] The nuclear program is certainly a possibility. [16:36] But I believe eventually they'll make a deal. [16:38] But we need to keep the pressure up. [16:40] We need to continue to press them very hard, [16:43] and we need to keep the pressure up. [16:44] So the president had posted he's postponed the deadline [16:46] to open the Strait of Hormuz [16:48] as a result of the Iranian government asking for it. [16:51] He says he's shifted that to April 6th at 8 p.m. [16:55] We also hear from the Secretary of State [16:58] that he's talking to the allies about a post-conflict necessity [17:02] of having other countries help to essentially police the Strait. [17:08] And he said that you will need tankers to have military escorts. [17:12] So this doesn't sound like this is a short-term project. [17:18] This sounds like even if combat ends, [17:20] we're going to be talking about a military presence [17:24] in the region for some time. [17:26] Am I wrong? [17:27] Margaret, you could be right. [17:31] Let's see what happens. [17:33] I think a negotiated... [17:34] There are two ways the Strait of Hormuz can be opened. [17:36] It can be opened if the Iranians negotiate with us to open it, [17:39] and of course that's the desired solution. [17:41] The other solution would be if they don't and they decide to fight, [17:43] we can open the Strait under that condition. [17:45] The second condition is obviously a lot more intensive [17:48] in terms of ships and equipment they would have to bring into the region. [17:51] And yes, help from our allies would certainly be very useful in that case. [17:56] We have the ability to open the Strait of Hormuz [17:59] under any condition that the Iranians choose to exist under. [18:02] Does it appear to you that one of the contingencies [18:05] that the White House is planning for, [18:07] given that they're continuing to move troops into the region, [18:10] and you have these Marines who are moving into the area as well, [18:14] are they preparing for a ground troop presence? [18:20] And what does that look like? [18:24] Margaret, for many years we've considered options [18:26] along the southern coast of Iran, [18:29] seizing islands, seizing small bases, [18:32] typically raids, and a raid is an operation with a planned withdrawal. [18:36] You're not going to stay. [18:37] But some of those islands you could seize and hold. [18:39] That would have a couple effects. [18:41] First of all, it would be profoundly humiliating for Iran [18:44] and would give us great weight in negotiations. [18:46] The second, the example of Karg Island, [18:48] which everyone talks about, [18:50] if you seize Karg Island, [18:51] you really can shut down the Iranian oil economy completely. [18:54] And the beauty of seizing it is you're not destroying it. [18:57] You're retaining it for further use by the global economy [19:00] and possibly for return to Iran under certain conditions. [19:04] So all of these things, [19:05] these are not back-of-the-envelope calculations. [19:08] These are things we've been working on for many years. [19:10] And I think we're right to threaten the entire littoral, [19:14] to hold all these options out there. [19:15] And I think we're right to threaten the entire littoral, [19:16] to hold all these options out there. [19:18] So I think the president's message is spot on [19:21] when he talks about all these alternatives. [19:24] But can he achieve his goals without ground troops, [19:27] which is what the Secretary of State says? [19:29] And how does this end? [19:31] How do you call this a success? [19:34] Sure. [19:35] I think a success looks like the Strait of Hormuz is open. [19:38] We get some kind of deal on the ballistic missile program, [19:40] some kind of deal on the nuclear program. [19:43] That's probably about as much as you could hope for. [19:45] But I think there are very discreet things [19:47] would be, would look like victory. I believe [19:50] all of those things are actually within our grasp. We just need to continue. [19:54] Iran will ultimately respond to the use of force. They know and understand it [19:58] perhaps better than we have, we have in the past. This administration is willing to [20:02] use force. [20:03] Other administrations have been thoroughly deterred by Iran. [20:07] President Trump is not deterred by Iran. Yeah. [20:10] Well, the president says he wants a deal, [20:14] even though I know you think that's going to be pretty hard to get to. [20:18] And he said Vice President Vance is going to be directly involved here, [20:23] Kareem. What does that signal to you? Well, the Iranians actually want to negotiate [20:28] with Vice President Vance for a couple reasons. Number one, they think he comes [20:31] from the anti-war wing of [20:33] the Republican Party. And number two, they think because of the fact that J.D. Vance [20:38] wants to run for president, he's incentivized to [20:40] want to wrap this war up pretty quickly. And I agree with something General [20:43] McKenzie said, [20:44] which is we know over the last five decades that this regime is only compromised [20:48] under really clear circumstances, when it faces existential pressure [20:53] coupled with a clear diplomatic exit. I think it's feeling existential pressure. [20:58] I don't think they've yet seen a clear diplomatic exit. [21:02] Well, gentlemen, thank you both for lending us your expertise for this conversation. [21:07] We'll have to leave it there. We'll be back in a moment. [21:11] This week could mark the beginning of a new era for human spaceflight. [21:15] NASA's Artemis 2, which is a new era for human spaceflight, [21:16] NASA's Artemis 2, which is a new era for human spaceflight, [21:16] NASA's Artemis 2, which is a new era for human spaceflight, [21:16] NASA's Artemis 2, which is a new era for human spaceflight, [21:16] NASA's Artemis 2, which is a new era for human spaceflight, is scheduled to launch [21:18] is scheduled to launch [21:18] is scheduled to launch on April 1st, carrying four [21:20] on April 1st, carrying four [21:20] on April 1st, carrying four astronauts in a loop around the [21:22] astronauts in a loop around the [21:22] astronauts in a loop around the moon before they return to Earth [21:23] moon before they return to Earth [21:24] moon before they return to Earth 10 days later. The crew, three [21:26] 10 days later. The crew, three [21:26] 10 days later. The crew, three Americans and one Canadian, [21:28] Americans and one Canadian, [21:28] Americans and one Canadian, includes the first woman, the [21:29] includes the first woman, the [21:29] includes the first woman, the first person of color, and the [21:31] first person of color, and the [21:31] first person of color, and the first Canadian expected to travel [21:32] first Canadian expected to travel [21:32] to the moon. It's the first crewed lunar mission in more than 50 years. And if all goes according [21:39] to plan, you can see full coverage here on CBS News and next Sunday on Face the Nation. [21:47] That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week, [21:51] for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.