Scott Bessent, Hakeem Jeffries and more

[0:01] I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington and this week on Face the Nation, President Trump travels to [0:06] Asia hoping to make trade deals with foreign friends and adversaries alike. Treasury Secretary [0:12] Scott Besson will be here with breaking news in advance of the much-anticipated Trump-Xi meeting. [0:20] President Trump was all smiles as he kicked off a trip filled with plans for international [0:26] wheeling and dealing. He may be ready for deal-making abroad, but back home, the standoff [0:36] over funding the government continues. Health care subsidies for the Affordable Care Act are [0:41] about to run out, causing premiums for millions to spike and grocery prices continue to soar. [0:49] Inflation I've already taken care of. Economically, the country is the strongest it's ever been. Thank [0:55] God for tariffs. If we didn't have tariffs, we wouldn't be here. [0:56] have tariffs, we'd be a third world nation. [0:59] House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries will be here, as will South Carolina [1:03] Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. We'll also talk with Congressman John Molinar. [1:09] He's the head of the House Select Committee on strategic competition between the U.S. [1:14] and the Chinese Communist Party. Finally, also breaking this morning, Paris [1:19] prosecutors say arrests have been made in last week's robbery of an estimated $100 [1:25] million worth of jewels and diamonds at the Louvre. [1:30] It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. [1:50] President Trump has left the government shutdown, now in its 26th day behind him, and is [1:56] making his way through three Asian countries on a globetrotting trade tour this week. [2:03] His trip will culminate on Thursday when he meets with Chinese President Xi Jinping in [2:08] South Korea. [2:09] We spoke just a short while ago about the U.S. [2:10] trade talks with China in advance of the meeting between the leaders of the world's two largest economies. [2:22] We asked the Secretary whether or not the President's threat to impose a 155% tariff on China effective November 1st was still on the table. [2:32] Well, Margaret, I think we had a very good two-day meeting. [2:35] I would believe that the... [2:37] So it would be an extra 100% for China. [2:39] We will have the details of that. [2:40] 100% from where we are now. And I believe that that is effectively off the table. I'm not going [2:46] to get ahead of the two leaders who will be meeting in Korea on Thursday. But I can tell [2:53] you we had a very good two days. So I would expect that the threat of the 100% has gone away, [2:59] as has the threat of the immediate imposition of the Chinese initiating a worldwide export [3:07] control regime. That export control on rare earths, which is used in all sorts of electronics [3:14] and automobiles, that'll be lifted? Well, it was never imposed. So they threatened to impose it [3:22] in December. And President Trump, to give me and the trade team leverage, decided that it would be [3:32] a good idea for him to threaten 100% additional tariff. And it did give us a great deal of [3:38] leverage. President Trump's very good. [3:39] Thank you. [3:40] And they're very good at creating leverage for us. This is the fourth meeting, excuse me, [3:44] the fifth meeting that we've had with the Chinese. My Chinese counterpart is the vice [3:50] premier, Ho Lee-Fung. So we had a very good two days. We discussed a wide variety of issues [3:56] from the rare earth, from the rare earth magnets, to trade, to substantial purchases of American [4:03] agricultural products, to the Chinese helping us end this fentanyl crisis that we've had [4:09] have in the U.S. On the purchases of American goods, American farmers have been hit hard by [4:16] China's boycott of American soybeans that went into place after the tariff war began here. [4:25] The administration is pumping at least $3 billion in financial aid to farmers to help make them [4:30] whole or at least offset the pain. Can farmers expect to sell their soybeans to China again [4:38] and when? Margaret, I'm not going to give you the details here, but I can tell you that the [4:45] soybean farmers are going to be extremely happy with this deal for this year and for the coming [4:51] years. A few weeks ago, there was a photographer who snapped a photo of you texting with the [4:58] agricultural secretary about this. She indicated concern about the unintended damage to American [5:04] farmers from the U.S. financial lifeline being given to Argentina, [5:10] because they're not going to be able to make a profit. [5:10] Margaret, I'm not going to give you the details here, but I can tell you that the soybean farmers [5:10] are going to be extremely happy with this deal for this year and for the coming years. [5:10] Margaret, I'm not going to give you the details here, but I can tell you that the soybean farmers [5:10] are going to be extremely happy with this deal for this year and for the coming years. That country [5:11] was able to sell more to China. That gave Beijing leverage over the United States. Is that leverage [5:19] still a problem today? Well, first of all, [5:25] the text from Secretary Rollins was talking about a purchase of soybeans that the Chinese did. [5:34] And Margaret, those soybeans were always going to get purchased. They just did it at a time when the [5:41] Argentines had lifted their export taxes. So you know, those soybeans were always going to be on [5:49] the market. It's a global market. The three leading suppliers are Brazil, Argentina and the U.S. [5:57] And I believe that we have brought the market back into equilibrium, and I believe that the Chinese [6:03] will be making substantial purchases again. So you dispute the idea that America hurt itself by [6:09] giving this $20 billion lifetime? Well, I think the Chinese will be making substantial purchases again. [6:10] So you dispute the idea that America hurt itself by giving this $20 billion lifetime? [6:10] So you dispute the idea that America hurt itself by giving this $20 billion lifetime? [6:11] So you dispute the idea that America hurt itself by giving this $20 billion lifetime? [6:13] So you dispute the idea that America hurt itself by giving this $20 billion lifetime? [6:13] Can you guarantee Americans they'll be made whole on that? [6:17] Margaret, I can tell you that the exchange stabilization fund [6:23] has never lost money. It will not lose money this time. And we are not giving money to Argentina. [6:29] It is a swap line, which the U.S. has done many times in the past, and we've never lost money. [6:38] On the Chinese, I saw that you mentioned TikTok was discussed. Are the details [6:43] of the president's executive order released in September, are those finalized? Has China agreed [6:49] to give up control of the algorithm that determines what users see? [6:54] Margaret, we reached a final deal on TikTok. We reached one in Madrid, and I believe [7:03] that as of today, all the details are ironed out, and that will be for the two leaders to [7:11] consummate that transaction on Thursday. [7:14] in Korea. Can you tell us any details of that transaction? Margaret, I'm not part of the [7:22] commercial side of the transaction. My remit was to get the Chinese to agree to approve the [7:30] transaction. And I believe we successfully accomplished that over the past two days. [7:36] Over the past two days, did the U.S. make any concessions here beyond what we discussed with [7:42] the tariffs? Are you dropping restrictions on exports of, for example, semiconductor chips [7:48] or restrictions on Chinese investment in the United States? [7:53] There have been no changes in our export controls. [8:00] When Presidents Xi and Trump are able to speak on Thursday, do you believe that the president's [8:07] position here, his ability to negotiate a deal with China, is going to be hurt [8:14] by the U.S. and China? [8:15] The fact that he's been unable to get a deal here at home to reopen the U.S. government? [8:21] Well, look, I don't think it's going to hurt. It's a global embarrassment what these Democratic [8:28] senators are doing, keeping the government shut down. I mean, look at the numbers. It's 52 to 3, [8:35] 52 Republican senators, three Democratic senators have come across the line. [8:39] So I just think it's an embarrassment. It doesn't affect his ability on the international stage. [8:45] Now, what it does affect, it's starting to affect the economy. It's starting to slow down [8:49] air traffic. And I would urge moderate Democrats to be heroes, come across the aisle like they did [8:56] in the spring and pass a clean CR. [8:59] A continuing resolution just to fund the government without any add-ons. [9:04] Does that mean when the president comes back to the United States, [9:07] he's going to summon congressional leaders to the White House to end what you call the [9:11] global embarrassment? [9:13] I don't know what good it does to summon them to the White House. [9:17] This is a Democratic-led boycott. And I'm just not sure what they're doing. [9:24] What's changed between now and March, other than Chuck Schumer's poll numbers? [9:28] And I think Hakeem Jeffries is now going to be primary from the left. [9:32] And I didn't think there was a lot of room over there. So both of them are worried about their [9:37] primaries and not the American people, not the government employees, not our military employees, [9:42] because we were able to pay the military employees from [9:47] extra money. [9:47] I think we'll be able to pay them beginning in November. But by November 15th, our troops [9:55] and service members who are willing to risk their lives aren't going to be able to get paid. [10:00] What an embarrassment. [10:03] Understood. We'll talk to Hakeem Jeffries later in the program. [10:06] I want to ask you about what the president just announced in regard to Canada. [10:11] Today, the president said he wants to raise tariffs on Mexico. [10:15] Yesterday, he said he's going to raise tariffs on Canada. [10:18] Canada by 10 percent. He blames what he called a fraudulent ad that featured [10:24] Ronald Reagan advocating for free trade. It was put up by the province of Ontario. [10:30] Is this ad really the issue here? Or is it just a tactic in this negotiation? [10:38] Does the president want the USMCA free trade deal renegotiated? Or is he looking to do [10:43] two separate deals, one with Canada, one with Mexico? [10:48] Well, [10:49] a lot of questions there, Margaret. But let's go to the first one. I've read that the province [10:54] of Ontario is spending up to $75 million on these advertisements. And it's propaganda coming across [11:01] our border to decry the tariffs. So the premier of Ontario seems to have come off the rails a [11:10] little. He has taken the ads down. But what's the purpose of that other than to try to sway [11:18] US public opinion? [11:19] You know, we've seen the, you know, I'm sure you and your network have decried election [11:25] interference. Well, you know, this is interference in US sovereign matters. [11:30] But is it really the premise for damaging negotiations with a top trading partner? [11:37] Well, it's clearly damaged our relationship with the most populous province in Canada. [11:46] When it comes to inflation here at home, the president said it's been defeated. But as you [11:52] know, the president is not going to be able to do anything about it. He's going to have to go to the [11:52] that core inflation edged up to 3% in September, less than forecast, hotter than August. But for [11:57] people at home, they are seeing prices still high on furniture, energy, gardening, lawn care, [12:04] apparel. Do you expect these things to cool off and when? Well, it is cooling off because [12:11] the core inflation number that you referenced was 0.2%, which is down from the previous sequence [12:20] over the previous months. And you listed the things that are up, but we're seeing plenty [12:26] of things that are down, whether it's energy and rents. Inflation is a composite number. [12:31] And I think we are on a glide path to lower inflation over the coming months. [12:37] Lower inflation, but not necessarily that Americans will look around and things have [12:41] gotten cheaper. Margaret, again, there's affordability and then there is inflation. [12:50] So, [12:52] some of the things that can get cheaper, rent has gotten cheaper, mortgages have gotten cheaper. [12:57] We are at, I believe, an 11 or 12 month low on mortgage rates. [13:04] Mr. Secretary, before I let you go, I want to ask you, the U.S. sanctioned Russia's top oil and gas [13:12] companies this past week. But Vladimir Putin's envoy, who is here in the United States, [13:17] Carol Dimitriev, I know you know him, said the sanctions will have, quote, [13:22] absolutely no effect on the economy. And I think that's a very important point. [13:23] No effect on Russia's economy. They will simply lead to higher prices at gas stations in the [13:28] United States. Is Dimitriev wrong? And when will Russia actually feel the pain? [13:36] Well, I think Russia is going to feel the pain immediately. I can tell you that we've already [13:40] seen India has done a complete halt of Russian oil purchases. Many of the Chinese refineries [13:47] have stopped. And, you know, Margaret, are you really going to publish what, [13:54] say, Russian propagandists says? I mean, what else is he going to say? That, oh, it's going to be [14:00] terrible and it's going to bring Putin to the table? Of course. The Russian economy is a wartime [14:09] economy. Growth is virtually zero. Inflation, I believe, is over 20 percent. And everything we do [14:19] is going to bring Putin to the table. It's oil. [14:25] That funds the Russian war machine. And I think we can make a substantial dent in his profits. [14:32] I understood you had some competing noise there. But just to be clear, Dimitriev is in the United [14:38] States because sanctions were lifted on him to conduct meetings here, including with President [14:45] Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff. When you say he's a propagandist, do you mean that we shouldn't [14:52] listen to anything he says? [14:53] I, I, [14:56] I don't think so. What do you think is going to happen to him if he goes back home and says, the good Lord, you know, what if he had said on TV. This is terrible. President Trump just did the right thing. This is a maximum pressure campaign that's going to work. [15:12] Margaret, what's he going to say? Of course, he's going to say this. If you go through and look at every Russian talking point, they seem to use the word we have immunized the economy against this. [15:24] Well, they haven't immunized the economy. [15:25] their oil earnings are down 20% year over year. I would suspect that this could take them down [15:32] another 20 or 30%. So again, President Trump was criticized for not doing enough. He takes [15:41] this bold maneuver, and then you're quoting a Russian propagandist. All right. We'll leave [15:48] it there with you, Mr. Secretary. I know you've had a long day. Thank you for your time. [15:53] Thank you. Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us. [15:56] And we're back with the top Democrat in the House, Leader Hakeem Jeffries. He joins us [16:05] from his Brooklyn, New York district. Good morning. [16:09] Good morning. Great to be with you. [16:11] Well, Leader Jeffries, Treasury Secretary Besant said the shutdown is starting to affect the [16:16] economy, and by November 15th, the troops will not be paid. Do you expect the shutdown to last [16:23] that long? I certainly hope not. This is day 26 of the Trump-Republican shutdown, [16:29] and as Democrats, we've maintained from the very beginning, [16:32] and continue to maintain, we will sit down any time, any place, with anyone, [16:36] either at the Capitol or back at the White House, to reopen the government, to negotiate a bipartisan [16:42] spending agreement that actually meets the needs of the American people, and to decisively address [16:47] the Republican health care crisis, particularly as it relates to the urgent need to extend the [16:53] Affordable Care Act tax credits so we can prevent tens of millions of Americans from experiencing [16:58] dramatically increased health insurance premiums. [17:02] And I know that we'll make access to a doctor unaffordable. [17:04] I want to come back to health care in a moment, but the Treasury Secretary accused you of playing [17:08] politics personally. And I know that your Democratic whip, Catherine Clark, said on Fox [17:14] this past week that shutdowns are terrible, but as she put it, it's one of the few leverage items [17:20] Democrats have. Do you think Democrats are gaining from this fight? [17:25] No. Our focus continues to be on driving down the high cost of living for everyday Americans. Donald, [17:32] Trump and Republicans promised that they would lower costs on day one. We know costs haven't gone [17:37] down. They're going up. Inflation is moving in the wrong direction. The Trump tariffs have made life [17:42] more expensive for the American people, to the tune of thousands of additional dollars per year. [17:47] We know that electricity bills are through the roof. Housing costs are too high. Childcare costs [17:52] are too high. Grocery is too expensive. And now tens of millions of Americans are at risk of [17:57] having their premiums explode. In some cases, by 1,000 to 2,000, [18:02] that's what this fight for us is all about. Republicans have come up with a new conspiracy [18:08] theory every week for the last six weeks. The Democratic position, Margaret, has been clear. [18:13] Cancel the cuts, lower the costs, save health care. [18:15] Well, that was the quote from the whip herself when she said leverage. But I hear you on rising [18:22] health care costs. But the immediate term, people aren't getting paid. 750,000 federal workers are [18:30] on unpaid leave. [18:31] 80% of the folks who are on unpaid leave are on unpaid leave. [18:32] 80% of the folks who work on our nuclear program are included in that figure. The [18:37] agriculture secretary said there will be delays in food stamps for many of the 41 million people [18:43] who rely on SNAP. And then at airports across the country, half of the flight delays, according to [18:48] the transportation secretary, are because of staffing shortages. This pain is real now. So [18:55] is there a point at which it becomes too great to justify continuing the shutdown? [19:00] Well, there is an urgent need to [19:02] open the government, which is why we continue to demand that Republicans sit at the negotiating [19:08] table so we can enact the spending agreement that's bipartisan in nature. That's what we've [19:14] called for from the very beginning. But the Republicans are saying they won't do that until [19:17] you pass the funding bill, the clean funding bill that already passed the House. Why can't Democrats [19:23] and the Senate get on board with that? [19:25] Well, we've made clear, and I'm thankful for the leadership of Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats, [19:32] that you have a partisan Republican spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the [19:36] American people in an environment where Republicans have already enacted the largest cut to Medicaid [19:42] in American history. Hospitals, nursing homes, and community-based health centers are closing [19:47] all across the country. There's the possibility that Medicare could face a $536 billion cut, [19:55] the largest cut to Medicare in history if Congress doesn't act by the end of this year because of [20:00] what Republican policies have done in their $1.5 billion budget. So it's a tough situation. I think [20:02] big, ugly bill. And now they refuse to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. That impacts [20:08] working class Americans, middle class Americans and everyday Americans throughout the country, [20:12] including in rural America. Well, they haven't refused. Leader Thune said he'd even put that up [20:17] for a vote if you open the government first. But next Saturday is the beginning of open enrollment. [20:24] I mean, people are going to see what that bill is going to look like. Practically speaking, [20:29] aren't you out of time here? Insurance companies have set these premiums in place. That's how [20:34] they're already in the mail for people to open and see on Saturday. What becomes the strategy [20:39] after November 1st if this shutdown lasts that long? Well, listen, we want to reopen the government [20:46] and we need to stand by our hardworking federal employees who are doing all that they can to make [20:52] sure that taxpayer dollars are spent effectively and efficiently, even under the most adverse [20:58] circumstances. [20:59] Remember, in terms of federal employees, the Trump administration has fired or dismissed more [21:05] than 200,000 civil servants prior to them shutting the government down on October 1st. We want to [21:13] reopen the government. Now, in terms of health care, part of the reality is that tens of millions [21:18] of people are already receiving notices in October that their premiums are about to skyrocket [21:24] because of the Republican refusal to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credit. And by the way, [21:28] they, [21:29] uh, have had the opportunity, both House Republicans and Senate Republicans repeatedly [21:34] throughout the year to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, and they've consistently [21:38] voted against it. That's why we need action, not simply words, a wing and a prayer promise [21:45] from people who have tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act more than 70 different times [21:50] since 2010. But aren't the premiums already locked in here? Or are you saying Republicans [21:54] are right when you can make up for it at the end of the year with the tax credit? [21:57] The premiums, uh, [21:59] are not locked in in terms of, uh, the reality that if we can act legislatively and act now, [22:05] we can extend the open enrollment, uh, period. We can push it back, and we can intervene as a [22:11] Congress in order to actually protect, uh, the affordability of health insurance for tens of [22:17] millions of people. [22:17] All right, uh, Leader, stay with us. I have to take a quick commercial break. The Paris [22:26] prosecutor's office announced today that French police have made arrests, although we don't know [22:31] how many, in last Sunday's robbery. [22:34] At the Louvre, one suspect was detained at the Charles de Gaulle Airport as he tried to flee [22:40] the country. Thieves stole an estimated $100 million worth of jewels and gems during a brazen [22:46] daytime robbery that took less than eight minutes. We'll be right back. [22:51] Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return now to our conversation with House Minority Leader [23:04] Hakeem Jeffries. Um, Leader Jeffries, I want to ask you about some other matters as well. Um, in [23:12] New York City, city of more than 8 million people, there's about to be, um, an election of a new [23:18] mayor. You waited until this Friday, the day before early voting began, to endorse the Democratic [23:25] Socialist candidate Zoran Mamdani. Why did you wait so long? [23:30] Uh, well, uh, as I indicated, the last several weeks, uh, we've been immersed in the intensity [23:36] around the government shutdown and the run-up to that in advance of September 30th and the [23:41] expiration of the fiscal year. [23:43] But I support the Democratic nominee, as I indicated, uh, and we're in alignment in terms [23:48] of the issue related to affordability and the need to address it decisively for the city of New York. [23:55] And of course, affordability is an issue for people all across the country. From a public [23:59] safety standpoint, I supported the notion, uh, that he would retain Police Commissioner Jessica [24:05] Tisch to continue to lead the NYPD forward. That's incredibly important from a public [24:10] safety standpoint for every community, including, [24:14] as a high priority, the safety and security of the Jewish community. And in terms of the moment that [24:18] we find ourselves in, Donald Trump represents an existential threat, uh, to the city of New York [24:23] and beyond because of the extreme assault that has taken place throughout this year on the economy, [24:29] on healthcare, on farmers, on veterans, on law-abiding immigrant communities, [24:34] on due process, on the rule of law, and of course, on the American way of life itself. [24:39] And we all, as Americans, are going to have to be aligned in pushing back. [24:43] Yeah. [24:44] So we can end this national nightmare that Donald Trump has visited upon the American people. [24:48] Well, you still waited until Friday, um, and the election's upon us, [24:52] but you're leaving room in your answer there for understanding that you don't agree with [24:57] the candidate on some other issues, though you agree with him on affordability. Um, since [25:02] Democrats are running for reelection in the midterm races, you want to retake the House. [25:07] Would you recommend they mimic some of Mamdani's messages, uh, as a progressive model for the party? [25:13] No. [25:14] Because what we've said from the very beginning, uh, is that we have to decisively address the [25:20] affordability crisis that Donald Trump and Republican policies have made worse in the [25:24] United States of America. We need to lower the high cost of living. We need to fix our broken [25:28] healthcare system. [25:29] So no. [25:29] And we need to, of course, clean up corruption in the United States of America. No, [25:33] what we're going to mimic is our own views as it relates to the need to make life more [25:39] affordable here in America. When you work hard and play by the rules in this country, you should be [25:44] able to live a comfortable life, live the good life, good paying job, good housing, good health care, [25:49] good education for your children and a good retirement. But far too many people are [25:54] struggling to live paycheck to paycheck and can barely get by. That's unacceptable in the [26:00] wealthiest country in the history of the world. [26:01] Uh, I want to ask you about something you said. You said Democrats, [26:05] there are no election deniers on our side of the aisle. You said that back in January, [26:09] but recently you've been using the term rigged elections in reference to the upcoming [26:14] midterms. Democrats were appalled when President Trump used language like that. How do you justify [26:19] using that now? Doesn't that undermine faith for voters? You need to show up. [26:25] No, I've been using that term in the context of Donald Trump's unprecedented effort to [26:32] gerrymander congressional maps in a partisan fashion all across the country in order to rig [26:38] the midterm elections and deny the ability of the American people to actually decide who should be [26:45] in the majority. [26:46] Yeah. [26:46] You know, Democrats are also going through gerrymandering and redistricting. [26:53] No, no, no. Well, Democrats are going to push back aggressively to make sure that we have [26:58] fair maps across the country, not partisan gerrymandering, which Republicans have initiated [27:05] in state after state after state. [27:07] Leader Jeffries, thank you for your time this morning. We'll be right back. [27:12] We turn now to Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. He joins us from Seneca, South Carolina. [27:20] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [27:22] Thank you. Good morning. [27:25] On Friday, Defense Secretary Hegseth ordered the deployment of the Navy's most advanced aircraft carrier, the Gerald Ford, to Latin America. [27:35] President Trump was asked if he planned to ask Congress for a declaration of war. Take a listen. [27:40] I don't think we're going to necessarily ask for a declaration of war. I think we're just going to kill people that are bringing drugs into our country. [27:49] Okay? We're going to kill them. You know, they're going to be like dead. [27:53] You don't need an aircraft carrier to hit drug boats. Are land strikes planned? [27:59] Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a real possibility. I think President Trump's made a decision that Maduro, the leader of Venezuela, is an indicted drug trafficker, [28:11] that it's time for him to go, that Venezuela and Colombia have been safe havens for narco terrorists for too long. [28:19] And President Trump told me yesterday that he plans to brief members of Congress. [28:26] When he gets back from Asia about future potential military operations against Venezuela and Colombia. [28:34] So there will be a congressional briefing about a potential expanding from the sea to the land. [28:40] I support that idea, but I think it has all the authority it needs. [28:44] Senator Gallego on another network accused President Trump and our military of committing murder by attacking these drug boats. [28:52] To our men and women in uniform, you're not murdering anybody. [28:55] You're making America safer by going after a narco terrorist. [29:00] You're following lawful orders. [29:02] When President Bush 41 took Ortega out in Panama, Reagan went into Grenada to deal with the Cuban influence from Grenada in our backyard. [29:13] He has all the authority in the world. This is not murder. [29:16] This is protecting America from being poisoned by narco terrorists coming from Venezuela and Colombia. [29:23] Well, a lot there. [29:24] But just to clarify. [29:25] The examples you're citing also involved ground troops. [29:28] You said time for Maduro to go. [29:30] That sounds a lot like regime change. [29:33] Are you talking about troops on the ground? [29:37] I'll let the president speak to that. [29:39] I'm talking about a briefing that would expand military operations potentially from the sea to the land. [29:45] It is time for Maduro to go. [29:47] It was time for Ortega to go. [29:49] You know, the Monroe Doctrine has been robustly applied by President Trump. [29:53] So these military assets are moving forward to deal with the country. [29:57] This got blood on its hands when it comes to Americans by flooding our country with drugs from Venezuela and Colombia. [30:06] So I hope Maduro would leave peacefully. [30:09] But I don't think he's going to stay around much longer. [30:13] I think President Trump is tired of Venezuela being used as a staging platform to poison America. [30:19] Well, there's a lot there, sir. [30:22] But you cited a Democratic senator's criticism. [30:26] He's not the only one. [30:27] Some of your Republican colleagues have been uncomfortable with what little information has been shared with Congress. [30:33] Take a listen. [30:34] If they want all-out war where we kill anybody and everybody that is in the country of Venezuela or coming out, that has to have a declaration of war. [30:43] It's something that is not pretty, very expensive, and I'm not in favor of declaring war on Venezuela, but the Congress should vote. [30:51] The president shouldn't do this by himself. [30:53] If this was happening with this level of insight under the Biden administration, I'd be apoplectic. [30:58] Todd Young also criticized this. [31:00] What exactly is the end game? [31:03] Because you're talking about regime change in Venezuela. [31:05] The president says this is about drug boats. [31:08] Yeah. [31:11] Well, I think the end game is to make sure that Venezuela and Colombia cannot be used to poison America, that the narco-terrorist dictator Maduro no longer be able to threaten our country and to send in drugs to kill Americans. [31:28] As to Rand Paul. [31:29] Yeah. [31:30] I just disagree fundamentally with his approach. [31:33] We didn't have a declaration to go into Panama. [31:37] Bush 41 went into Panama to replace the leadership there because the Panama leadership, Panamanian leadership, were working with drug cartels to threaten our country. [31:49] Reagan didn't have a declaration of war, congressional authorization to deal with Cuban influence. [31:55] So this idea of Rand Paul, I just fundamentally disagree with. [32:00] To the other senators, you deserve more information and you're going to get more information. [32:05] But there is no requirement for Congress to declare war before the commander-in-chief can use force. [32:12] Panama and Grenada are two examples in our backyard where Republican presidents chose to go after countries and leaders that were threatening our people. [32:24] But there seem to be a number of issues wound up in here. [32:28] I know you personally used to serve as a Judge Atkins. [32:30] You served as a judge advocate in the Air Force. [32:33] Yeah. [32:34] We looked at the JAG manual. [32:36] Preventative self-defense employed to counter non-imminent threats is illegal under international law. [32:43] So if we are not at war and these suspected criminals pose no threat of imminent violence, isn't this potentially a war crime to be killing the people on these boats and then to be taking out a leader? [32:58] No. [33:00] Not at all. [33:01] I don't know what manual you're referring to, but I know what President Bush 41 did. [33:06] He took down Ortega, the leader of Panama, because he was involved in drug trafficking threatening our country. [33:13] Venezuela is now partnering with Hezbollah. [33:16] Hezbollah is running out of money because Iran is weak. [33:19] That's not new. [33:20] They're partnering with drug cartels in Venezuela. [33:23] No. [33:24] It should have stopped. [33:25] Here's what's new. [33:26] You've got a commander-in-chief that's not going to put up with this crap. [33:29] We're not going to sit on the sidelines and watch boats full of drugs come to our country. [33:34] We're going to blow them up and kill the people that want to poison America. [33:38] And we're now going to expand operations, I think, to the land. [33:42] So please be clear about what I'm saying today. [33:45] President Donald Trump sees Venezuela and Colombia as direct threats to our country because they house narco-terrorist organizations. [33:55] The leader of Venezuela is an indicted drug dealer. [33:58] He's an indicted drug dealer in American courts. [34:01] So, yeah, the game is changing when it comes to drug traffickers and drug cartels. [34:07] We're going to use military force like we have in the past to protect our country. [34:13] That's the new game we're playing, and I'm glad we're playing that game. [34:17] And if I were Maduro, I'd find a way to leave before he goes down. [34:21] Is trafficking cocaine an armed attack on the United States? [34:25] That's what you're equating it to? [34:28] I am saying that there's plenty of law under Article II. [34:34] Article II powers of the president are designed to protect our countries from threats, foreign and domestic. [34:41] Was it illegal for Bush to take Ortega out in Panama? [34:45] Was it illegal for Reagan to go into Grenada to stop Cuban influence building this big, long runway? [34:52] There's plenty of precedent here to do what he's doing, but the game has changed. [34:57] The game has changed. [34:58] The game has changed when it comes to narco-trafficking drug organizations. [35:03] We're going to take you out. [35:06] Well, you referenced something earlier, sir, I want to come back to. [35:09] You said to the men and women of the military that they are carrying out lawful orders. [35:15] Secretary Hegseth removed the top uniformed lawyers in the Air Force. [35:21] You know this, the Navy and the Army, because he called them roadblocks to orders that are given by a commander in chief. [35:27] There have been other departures. [35:28] There have been other departures as well. [35:30] This raises concern that commanders are not being given adequate legal counsel. [35:37] That is why you just said that sentence, to assure them. [35:42] That's garbage. [35:44] That's absolute garbage. [35:46] Which, that Hegseth said that? [35:48] No, no, I'm saying that the theory that President Trump's doing something here illegally, dealing with a country that's run by an indicted drug dealer, [35:59] is the same as Panama. [36:01] There's a better case to go into Venezuela than there was Panama. [36:05] There's a better case to deal with Colombia than there was Grenada. [36:09] Yeah, I've been doing this all of my adult life. [36:12] I have all the confidence in the world that President Trump has the legal authority, but more importantly, he's doing the right thing. [36:19] More Americans have died from cocaine and fentanyl poisoning than any terrorist group in the world. [36:25] I am very pleased that we now have a president. [36:28] We now have a president who's going to use the full force of the American people, the might of America, to protect us from narco-terrorist states and drug organizations. [36:39] Keep it up, Mr. President. [36:41] We're not committing murder. [36:42] We're protecting our nation from people who want to poison us. [36:45] Well, there's obviously buyers on the other end of it, which is why the cartels are selling, right? [36:51] Yeah, we'll do with a vote. [36:54] We'll do with a vote. [36:55] Well, I want to come back to it. [36:57] Let's talk about lawful orders here. [36:59] I, myself, spoke to a former senior commander who said he'd want that in writing because of concern that this is going to be down the line questionable. [37:11] You've already heard the orders to carry out operations. [37:14] You've already heard Democratic lawmakers, including on this program, say that they have concerns about future prosecutions of officers. [37:22] Well, act on your concerns. [37:23] Why don't you do it? [37:25] Okay, if you've got concerns, here's what we can do as members. [37:28] We can cut off funding for military operations we don't like. [37:32] So if you're concerned as a Democrat or a Republican, why don't you introduce legislation to cut off all funding to the military when it comes to attacking drug votes and going after narco-terrorist states through the military? [37:46] You can do that. [37:47] Go ahead and do it. [37:48] I'll vote no. [37:49] I think it has all the authority in the world in Article II and international law to make sure that countries like Venezuela can't be staging these operations. [37:57] We can't be staging areas to infiltrate drugs into our country. [38:02] I think it has all the legal authority in the world, and I'm just really glad he's doing this. [38:07] And, Mr. President, keep it up. [38:09] Well, we look forward to hearing those justifications when they are shared with Congress. [38:14] You made some news there, Senator. [38:16] Thank you for your time today. [38:17] We'll be back in a moment. [38:18] And joining us now is the chairman of the House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, Michigan Republican Representative John Molinar. [38:28] Welcome, Congressman. [38:29] Thank you, Margaret. [38:30] Good to be with you. [38:31] So much to get to with you. [38:32] But just quickly, if the prime adversary and threat to the United States is in China, in the Pacific, is bringing all the military in the Western Hemisphere in such full force and focus the thing to do? [38:45] Well, I think we're sending an important message that we're no longer going to allow drug trafficking coming in and killing American lives. [38:52] And, you know, China is very much behind the fentanyl crisis that's killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. [38:59] That's out of Mexico, primarily. [39:01] And I think the president takes the Western Hemisphere very seriously. [39:05] And getting the drugs out of our backyard, I think, is an important step forward. [39:09] On the committee work that you've been doing, I'm sure you heard from Treasury Secretary Besson at the top of the program that he says China has agreed to the TikTok deal. [39:19] 170 million Americans use this social media app. [39:23] Congress had passed a law to force this sale and cited it as a national security threat if it continued to operate. [39:30] The way it has. [39:32] Have your national security concerns about the app and then about this transaction been addressed? [39:41] Well, I think it's important that we note that the law requires a divestment and getting the Chinese Communist Party control away from the app as well as the algorithm. [39:52] And it allows ownership only up to 20 percent for the Chinese entity ByteDance. [39:59] And to me, it's very important that that happens. [40:01] That's carried out. [40:04] We don't know all the specifics of this, but we know that American companies are very interested in participating. [40:11] There's the proposal for a lease agreement. [40:15] But how you get that algorithm completely out of the Chinese control is going to be up to the experts. [40:22] You know, there's six million pieces of code in this algorithm. [40:27] And we need to make sure that it's protected for the American people. [40:31] So that algorithm is the data tracking system that's pulled from a user's habits. [40:35] And so the accusation was also that this was basically manipulating consumers in terms of what they were able to see. [40:43] So will that algorithm be maintained and will upgrades only be conducted by, for example, American engineers? [40:53] That would be my recommendation, because ultimately we don't want a Chinese propaganda effort. [41:00] Right. [41:01] We don't want a Chinese propaganda effort affecting 170 million Americans. [41:03] We also want to make sure that data from Americans is kept secure. [41:08] And as long as the Chinese are involved, I think there's reasons for distrust. [41:14] Even with the 20 percent stake? [41:16] I'm still concerned about it. [41:18] Quite frankly, you know, the Chinese report to the Chinese Communist Party, and they will leverage every advantage they get. [41:26] But the president has set a goal of making this available to the American people, [41:30] following the law that was passed in a bipartisan way. [41:33] And I trust that they are doing that. [41:35] The president has not been following the letter of the law that you voted for. [41:40] Well, I think... [41:41] You know that. [41:42] I think the goal has been to come to an agreement, to come to a deal. [41:46] And they've been working very hard to do that. [41:48] But when you have the Chinese Communist Party, Xi Jinping, with direct leverage on this in terms of what they will do, what they won't do, [41:57] it's very difficult to continue to make that available. [42:00] But I trust the people who are negotiating that recognize we've got to get the control of the algorithm away from the Chinese Communist Party, [42:08] the app, and make sure that the ownership is controlled by America, not China. [42:13] So let's talk about that ownership. [42:15] The president said the investors would include Michael Dell, Lachlan Murdoch, whose family owns Fox News, [42:21] and Larry Ellison, whose son owns Paramount, parent company of CBS News. [42:25] Do you have concerns that people who are boosters of the president, [42:30] will have ownership of social media in this way? [42:34] You know, I think... [42:35] Since it's so powerful. [42:38] Well, there are some, I'm sure, investors, not everybody is simply a supporter of the president. [42:43] But I believe that in this case, Congress has a role for oversight. [42:49] And we will be meeting with the parties of transaction. [42:53] We also will have hearings on this. [42:55] Because at the end of the day, we want this controlled by American companies, [42:59] regardless of what their political affiliation, [43:02] we don't want it controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. [43:05] But Secretary Besant said he got the Chinese to say yes. [43:08] And on Thursday, he used the word consummated that this deal will be signed off between Xi and Trump. [43:14] So are your hearings just after the fact? [43:17] Or, you know, what effect do you hope they will have? [43:21] Well, oversight. [43:22] Congress has a legitimate role of oversight. [43:24] We passed a law. [43:26] Meaning you assume this deal is done, that this transaction is happening, [43:28] and you're just going to monitor it. [43:30] I would assume that if the president comes to an agreement, [43:33] which he's charged to do under the law, [43:35] and if that happens on Thursday, [43:37] then it will move forward. [43:39] And there may be challenges to that law or the implementation of it. [43:44] But Congress has a role of oversight to ensure that the law is followed. [43:49] The Wall Street Journal reported that Xi Jinping called TikTok, quote, spiritual opium. [43:55] And he saw this as just like a low-cost bargaining chip [43:58] for China. [44:00] Do you think that that's what's happening here? [44:04] That this is just an easy thing to hand over to President Trump? [44:06] I believe it's a very addictive app. [44:09] China has made a lot of money because of that. [44:11] But they've also used it in a way that allows, you know, their information, [44:16] their propaganda to be propagated. [44:18] They control the algorithm. [44:20] And that's why we passed that bipartisan law. [44:23] So I believe Xi Jinping views this as a strategic asset. [44:27] That's why he didn't want to sell it. [44:29] He wanted to sell it to some of the other American companies [44:33] that were interested in purchasing it. [44:35] So as long as they're involved, [44:37] I think we have to recognize that TikTok, [44:41] even an American version, [44:44] still could be open to influence from the Chinese Communist Party. [44:48] Or whoever owns it. [44:50] Whoever owns it. [44:51] The algorithm. [44:52] The algorithm. [44:53] Congressman, thank you very much. [44:56] And we'll be watching for those hearings. [44:58] Thank you. [44:59] If you have them. [45:04] That's it for us today. [45:05] Thank you all for watching. [45:06] Until next week. [45:07] For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.