'PISSED that I fell for it': Ex-Trump supporters explain why they left MAGA movement

[0:00] There are growing signs that President Trump's MAGA base is fracturing, [0:04] with high-profile defections by former Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene [0:09] and influencer Ashley St. Clair, [0:11] and recent polling that indicates that the overall number of people [0:14] who identify as Republican is shrinking. [0:16] But for the diehard, leaving MAGA isn't easy. [0:20] When you were a part of the MAGA movement, how deep were you? [0:23] I was as deep as anyone could have been. [0:27] I was an aspiring MAGA pundit. [0:29] I had bylines in places like Fox and The Federalist. [0:33] I spoke at Trump groups. [0:34] I was a donor on the campaign. [0:36] I was unapologetically a MAGA and Trump supporter. [0:40] Rich Logos is the founder and CEO of Leaving MAGA, [0:44] a nonprofit for those disillusioned by the movement. [0:46] The group, which Logos says is funded entirely by small donors, [0:50] provides support groups, deradicalization resources, [0:53] and a platform for members to share their experiences. [0:57] After I left in 2022, I realized that because MAGA is a community itself, [1:04] to leave, I thought that I should build a community for people who also decide to leave. [1:11] When I left MAGA, I had nowhere to go. [1:14] To get a better understanding of what makes people leave MAGA, [1:18] we heard from an array of the group's members. [1:20] I grew up really poor. So, a lot of my friends' parents would be responsible for helping me get [1:25] to prom or making sure I had new shoes for school. And they were all MAGA. And it was very much this [1:31] constant conversation of, if you want to have nice things, be a Republican. Look at what we have, [1:37] look what we're doing for you. They say Republicans are cruel and heartless, [1:41] but, look, I'm taking care of you. If I was cruel and heartless, would I do that? [1:44] I really wanted acceptance with my father. And my father was very much into Fox News. So, [1:51] that was something that we would connect on. [1:52] I became heavily indoctrinated into trad wife culture. Household voting was something myself [2:00] and my fellow trad wives in the church, we were all absolutely fine with household voting. [2:04] And that led... [2:05] So, just to clarify, for people who don't know, household voting means a woman does not vote. [2:10] So, the SAVE Act, in essence, is to take that right away from women. [2:15] In 2015 and 16, I felt that the two parties were the same, that democracy had failed most Americans, [2:24] and that elected officials cared mostly about the wealthy and the powerful. [2:29] And even though Trump ran as a Republican, I was very enticed by his outsider status. [2:37] From the timelines you've given me, you guys were all sort of on the MAGA train, [2:40] to some extent, in 2020, right, at that point? [2:43] Yes. [2:43] Yes. [2:44] When you heard Trump claim that the election had been stolen, were any of you like, [2:49] yeah, they stole this election, Trump won? [2:51] Yeah. [2:52] Yeah? [2:52] Up until fairly recently, when I left MAGA, I did believe that the election was stolen. [3:02] I believe that the riots were actually, those were patriots. [3:07] They stormed the Capitol, and I'm like, well, yeah, I guess this is what you got to do if you have a [3:11] corrupt, you know, election process happening. [3:14] Until I actually switched off Fox News and started getting my news from [3:18] other places, my information, that's when it finally hit. [3:22] WILLIAM BRANGHAM. [3:22] Diversifying their news turned out to be a common factor in leaving MAGA. [3:27] I met my now husband in 2021. [3:31] He is a Black man. [3:32] And he saw a Trump flag on my profile. [3:34] And he was like, hey, could you read White Fragility? [3:37] I'd really love it if you would. [3:38] And I did. [3:38] And it was very interesting, because I was terrified of that book up until that point. [3:42] And I read it. [3:43] And it wasn't even as scary as I thought it was going to be. [3:45] And they made me watch a documentary on January 6th. [3:48] And I didn't even know what happened on January 6th prior to the PBS documentary. [3:52] And I looked at him and I said, Scott, did that really happen? [3:55] And he was like, where have you been? [3:58] It's so hard for people, because I said, it's not that you're dumb. [4:02] You were fooled. [4:03] That's incredibly hard to admit. [4:05] We are in the United States of algorithms right now. [4:09] And MAGA media is very efficacious. [4:13] It's very effective. [4:15] And it's very disciplined. [4:16] Stefania became disillusioned when MAGA beliefs clashed with her understanding of medical science. [4:22] When I really began to wake up was during COVID. [4:25] Because as a trained respiratory therapist with five children, [4:28] the mixed messaging was something that finally broke through the cognitive dissonance. [4:33] Because I was hearing, wear masks. [4:35] No, no, no, don't. [4:36] They don't stop respiratory viruses. [4:38] When I very much knew that they did. [4:40] Stefania would be forced to return to her work in respiratory therapy in 2022, [4:44] when her husband contracted long COVID and could no longer work. [4:47] It all felt very karmic. [4:49] Like I was experiencing the aftermath of things I had voted for. [4:56] You know, downplaying COVID only for it to then hit us. [4:59] It's not easy to believe something firmly and then come to the conclusion that you've been wrong [5:05] for many years. [5:07] Was that hard for you, just on a factual level, to say, [5:10] oh, I believed things factually that I now realize were not true? [5:15] Yes, yes. [5:17] That was something that I just couldn't square. [5:20] Because I couldn't be wrong. [5:21] Because I consider myself intelligent, knowledgeable. [5:25] There was no way that I was wrong about it. [5:28] And I held that belief for a long time. [5:31] You know, I had believed that when Trump ran that he would be somebody who would [5:37] be different as an outsider. [5:39] I think that he was correct in pointing out a lot of the flaws of our political system. [5:46] It just turned out, unfortunately, that he didn't try to solve those or remedy those ills, [5:54] that he exacerbated them. [5:56] Hearing you guys talk about MAGA and about supporting Trump, [5:59] it sounds like you're talking often about, like, a cult that's damaging. [6:04] It is. [6:05] Right? [6:05] Yeah. [6:06] But he's the president of the United States. [6:09] And it's not a cult. [6:11] It's like the dominant political ideology of the United States in this moment. [6:16] You know, we all have a need for community. [6:21] Our species yearns for a communal existence. [6:24] And what MAGA does provide is a place where people feel seen and heard and recognized. [6:31] And some of their very valid fears and concerns are acknowledged and validated. [6:39] We used to say, we're not in the cult. [6:41] The outside world is the cult. [6:43] And we're not the crazies. [6:44] The outside world are the crazies. [6:46] The group says that leaving MAGA often means losing relationships with loved ones. [6:51] But it also teaches them to approach those loved ones with empathy. [6:55] When I left MAGA, like I said, I kicked the door open and jumped through. [6:59] I had a heart full of hate. [7:01] I hated everything about Trump, everything about MAGA, everybody that was in MAGA. [7:06] Just hate, hate, hate, hate. [7:08] Because I was pissed that I fell for it. [7:10] So I would just go on the offensive and attack anybody and everybody that still supported it. [7:15] And I've learned over time that that's not going to change anybody. [7:19] In fact, it's going to push people over. [7:21] So I've learned to be that empathy, that voice of concern, that caring voice. [7:27] You can do this. [7:28] I did it. [7:28] As part of leaving MAGA, there's really two outcomes that occur. [7:34] The first is renouncing the lies, falsehoods, and conspiracies of MAGA politics. [7:40] And the second part of it is that someone who leaves MAGA decides to build up rather than [7:46] tear down democracy by making the continued case that we agree more than we disagree. [7:52] You know, we're doing a billboard campaign right now across the country. [7:56] And the message on the billboard is very simple, welcoming, and inviting. [8:00] And it says, having doubts, you are not alone. [8:04] And we have more people than ever who are in MAGA coming to us, asking us for help leaving. [8:12] Do you guys think that this group that you are a part of plays a role in this political moment, [8:18] in the midterm specifically? [8:19] Do you think it might have a measurable effect on the way that things go moving forward? [8:23] Every time we as a nation have been in a crisis situation, the way that we've gotten through it, [8:29] the way we've pushed forward and progressed, is by forming unlikely but necessary alliances. [8:36] And everybody who leaves MAGA, there's a chance to form an unlikely but necessary alliance with [8:43] people who have left. We are all living proof that it is possible to change.