'No question about it': Nancy Pelosi on a future woman president

[0:00] And Nancy Pelosi has made history as the first and only female Speaker of the House, [0:05] with her career in Congress spanning nearly four decades. [0:08] Now at 86 years old, she's become one of the most recognizable and powerful figures in American politics, [0:14] shepherding passage of a number of landmark bills, [0:16] from the Affordable Care Act to the American Rescue Plan. [0:20] She's also become a favorite target of Republicans, including President Trump. [0:24] Yesterday, you may have noticed I wasn't hosting this show. [0:26] I was actually in attendance as her career was celebrated in her home state of Maryland. [0:31] And in an MSNOW exclusive, the former Speaker opened up to me for a wide-ranging interview, [0:36] from the state of Congress to patching up her rift with President Biden, [0:39] and of course, the upcoming midterm elections. [0:43] We will come to Biden in just a moment, but first, ahead of the 2028 election, [0:47] I asked about the women who have run for that nation's highest office. [0:52] Watch what she told me. [0:52] I hear a lot of chatter going into 2028 about, [0:57] oh, Democrats. [0:58] Democrats can't have a female nominee. [1:00] Do you think that that is fair? [1:03] No, I don't. [1:05] I think that, let me say this, backing up. [1:09] I always thought the American people were much more ready for a Madam President [1:16] than Congress was for a Madam Speaker, because it is a marble ceiling. [1:21] It's not a glass ceiling. [1:22] It's a marble ceiling. [1:23] But campaigns are campaigns, and you have to go out there and make the case. [1:27] I think Hillary Clinton was. [1:30] And it's going first place, the most qualified person of the generation, [1:34] certainly more qualified than the creature that is there now. [1:38] So, but it was just a question of getting people, I guess, used to the idea, [1:44] a woman could be commander in chief. [1:46] Do you think you'll see it in your lifetime? [1:49] Well, not in my lifetime, because I'm old. [1:51] But it will come sometime. [1:53] It will come time soon. [1:54] There's just no question about it. [1:57] We'll see what she means when she says soon there. [2:00] No, I've written a book. [2:01] I've written a book about this topic. [2:02] And it's fascinating to hear her praise Hillary Clinton. [2:05] She later praised Vice President Kamala Harris, [2:07] saying that the party would have lost more seats [2:10] if Harris wasn't the one leading the Democratic ticket, [2:13] praising her work there as well. [2:15] But I think Pelosi is right, according to my research and work in this space, too. [2:19] The more women who run, the more easy it is, or the easier it is, [2:23] for Americans to get used to voting for women, [2:26] seeing them in top leadership positions. [2:28] And frankly, that is a huge part of Pelosi's legacy as well. [2:31] Even as she talks about it as breaking a marble ceiling in Congress, [2:35] the fact that she's done it means that there is a bigger pathway [2:39] for more women to rise to that highest spot in Congress as well. [2:43] Really important to hear her reflecting on that [2:45] as we end Women's History Month as well. [2:49] And as for President Biden, [2:50] the two, of course, had long shared a close relationship [2:53] until on Morning Joe in 2024. [2:56] Pelosi made comments that became an inflection point [2:59] in Biden dropping his reelection bid [3:01] and all of a sudden, she's back in office. [3:02] Ultimately straining their relationship. [3:04] I asked about that. [3:07] I wonder if you factor in the way that Biden's campaign ended [3:10] when you think about your own legacy. [3:13] I think that many people credit you or blame you [3:17] for the way that that campaign ended. [3:19] Well, I don't know. [3:22] How can I say this in a nice way? [3:24] The Biden administration accomplished great things. [3:29] People compared him to LBJ in terms of the amount of [3:33] and the quality. [3:35] And quantity of accomplishments. [3:36] The only thing I asked the president to do were two things. [3:40] I get more credit or blame than I deserve. [3:43] And that is that I wanted him to have other posters at the table [3:48] than just listening to one. [3:50] And B, I wanted him to assure the public that he could serve the term. [3:56] They didn't agree with that. [3:57] And so he then decided to step aside. [4:00] It was his decision. [4:02] Rather than talking about that, [4:04] I'd rather talk about Kamala Harris. [4:08] She was just happy. [4:13] It happened so fast. [4:14] She ran a great campaign. [4:16] She turned out so many more people than who would have voted. [4:20] I think she doesn't deserve enough credit for the outcome of the election [4:25] in terms of we would have lost probably 14 seats in that election [4:31] if she had not been the candidate. [4:34] Have you and Biden spoken? [4:35] Yes, we have. [4:36] When was the? [4:37] Did he call you when you retired? [4:38] I'd rather it'd be up to him to tell people when we spoke. [4:43] And so, of course, I did make some phone calls after speaking with Speaker [4:47] Emerita Pelosi, and I'm actually told that former President Biden and the [4:51] former speaker have had lunch recently. [4:54] Interesting to see that relationship be patched up as they are both in the [4:58] twilight of their political careers. [5:00] And just reflecting on my own time being spent with her, we went from a room in [5:06] Annapolis where Pelosi herself. [5:08] Was having her career celebrated. [5:10] She, of course, is finishing out her final term in Congress, having [5:13] announced her in her retirement several months ago. [5:16] But the fact that she is still so focused on being in the fight, we spoke [5:20] about concerns she has about the midterm elections, plans that Democrats [5:24] are making to ensure that they are on effectively the up and up and that [5:27] nothing can be tampered with. [5:29] I asked her about the potential for ICE being at the polls or the Supreme [5:32] Court changing the rules around mail in balloting, and she assured me that even though Democrats are [5:38] concerned, they have a plan for how to counter those measures and ensure that people can still [5:42] access their ballots and their rights to vote fairly. [5:46] She also told me she has no concerns when it comes to Democrats being able to flip the chamber, pointing to [5:52] Hakeem Jeffries as a strong leader, even as I asked about criticism that he and her longtime colleague, [5:57] Chuck Schumer, have gotten from the Democratic base as they just want to see more. [6:02] Pelosi instead said the message will be strong and it will have a contrast from Republicans. [6:08] I also asked, and we will play this clip later on Morning Joe as you see more of this interview, [6:13] but I asked about the ways that many people see Congress as broken, and Pelosi actually said that [6:19] this institution that she has molded and that has molded her is not irretrievable, but she did blame [6:25] Speaker Mike Johnson for effectively diminishing the role of a speaker and relinquishing so much [6:31] power to President Trump. Again, this was wide-ranging, a lot of news, and so much that I [6:38] think is very interesting. We are, of course, going to have more of this interview with [6:40] Congresswoman Pelosi coming up on Morning Joe, and the full interview is going to be [6:45] available on YouTube if you want to spend some time with it there, too.