FULL Democratic Debate: Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton Face Off In New Hampshire — MSNBC

[0:00] Let's get going. Please join us in welcoming Secretary Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders. [0:06] Special thanks to the New Hampshire Union leader for helping make this debate possible, [0:50] and their readers who helped provide some of the questions and topics that we'll be addressing [0:54] tonight. The rules tonight, by the way, are simple. 90 seconds for answers, 30 seconds for [0:59] follow-ups and rebuttals. And with that, that's it. We're going to begin with 60-second opening [1:06] statements from each of the candidates. And as agreed to in advance by the two campaigns, [1:11] we are going to begin tonight with Senator Sanders. [1:13] Now, Rachel, thank you very much. Millions of Americans are giving up on the political process. [1:21] And they're giving up on the political process because they understand the economy is rigged. [1:29] They are working longer hours for lower wages. They're worried about the future of their kids. [1:34] And yet, almost all new income and wealth is going to the top 1%. [1:41] Not what America is supposed to be about. Not the fairness that we grew up believing that America [1:49] was about. And then sustaining that rigged economy is a corrupt campaign finance system [1:56] undermining American democracy, where billionaires, Wall Street, corporate America can contribute [2:03] unlimited sums of money into super PACs and into candidates. Our job together is to end a rigged [2:15] economy, create an economy that works for all, and absolutely overturn citizens united. One person, [2:22] one vote. That's what American democracy is about. Thank you, Senator. Secretary Clinton. [2:30] Well, I'm happy to be here in New Hampshire for this debate as we move toward the primary on Tuesday. [2:37] I believe that America has the opportunity to once again live by our values, live up to our values in the [2:45] 21st century. But I think that America can only do that if Americans can succeed. [2:52] And there are lots of reasons why Americans today are feeling left out and left behind. [2:58] Yes, of course, the economy has not been working for most Americans. [3:03] Yes, of course, we have special interests that are unfortunately doing too much to rig the game. [3:09] But there's also the continuing challenges of racism, of sexism, of discrimination against the LGBT [3:16] community, of the way that we treat people as opposed to how we want to be treated. [3:22] I believe that we can get back on the right track, that I want to imagine a country where people's wages [3:28] reflect their hard work, where we have health care for everyone and where every child gets to live up [3:33] to his or her potential. I'm fighting for people who cannot wait for those changes, and I'm not making [3:40] promises that I cannot keep. All right. Let's get started. [3:45] Secretary Clinton, last night, you cited the Concord Monitor when you said of Senator Sanders that, [3:50] quote, it's very hard to see how any of his proposals could ever be achievable. [3:55] So please tell us why you think if he's elected president on a platform of promising things like free public [4:02] college and universal health care that he cannot achieve those things. [4:07] Well, let me start by saying that Senator Sanders and I share some very big progressive goals. [4:12] I've been fighting for universal health care for many years, and we're now on the path to achieving it. [4:18] I don't want us to start over again. I think that would be a great mistake to once again plunge our [4:25] country into a contentious debate about whether we should have and what kind of system we should have [4:32] for health care. I want to build on the progress we've made, go from 90% coverage to 100% coverage, [4:37] and I don't want to rip away the security that people finally have. 18 million people now have health [4:43] care. Pre-existing conditions are no longer a bar. So we have a difference. I also believe in [4:50] affordable college, but I don't believe in free college because every expert that I have talked to [4:56] says, look, how will you ever control the cost? What I want to do is make sure middle-class kids, [5:01] not Donald Trump's kids, get to be able to afford college. I want to get the economy going again. [5:07] It's not just enough about what we're against, as important as that is. I have a plan to create new [5:13] jobs, manufacturing, infrastructure, clean energy jobs that will make us the 21st century clean energy [5:20] superpower. I also want to make sure small businesses can start and grow again. And of course, [5:26] I believe in raising the minimum wage and equal pay for work. But the numbers just don't add up [5:32] from what Senator Sanders has been proposing. That's why all of the independent experts, all of [5:38] the editorial boards that have vetted both of us have concluded that it is just not achievable. [5:44] Let's go down a path where we can actually tell people what we will do. A progressive is someone [5:50] who makes progress. That's what I intend to do. Thank you, Secretary. Senator Sanders, [5:54] so just to explain how you've spent nearly two decades in Congress and haven't gotten any of [5:58] these things passed. Why do you think as president you'll be able to achieve big, big new programs? [6:03] Well, I haven't quite run for president before. You know, let's deal with some of the comments [6:15] that Secretary Clinton made. And by the way, you know, sometimes there's a lot of drama here. [6:21] I've known Secretary Clinton for 25 years and respected very much. Here is the issue. Every major [6:30] country on earth, whether it's the UK, whether it's France, whether it's Canada, has managed to provide [6:37] health care to all people as a right. And they are spending significantly less per capita on health [6:45] care than we are. So I do not accept the belief that the United States of America can't do that. [6:52] I do not accept the belief that the United States of America and our government can't stand up to the [6:58] ripoffs of the pharmaceutical industry, which charge us by far the highest prices in the world for [7:04] prescription drugs. Number two, in the economy today, everybody understands that we need a well-educated [7:12] workforce. This is 2016. When we talk about public education, it can no longer be K through 12th grade. [7:22] I do believe that public colleges and universities should be tuition free. Well, how do we pay for that? [7:28] It's an expensive proposition. I do believe that we should substantially lower student debt in this [7:34] country, which is crushing millions of people. We pay for it, in my view, by attacks on Wall Street [7:41] speculation. The middle class bailed out Wall Street in their time of need. Now it is Wall Street's time [7:48] to help the middle class. If I could just follow up on that, there is no disagreement between us on [8:01] universal coverage for health care. The disagreement is where do we start from and where do we end up? [8:07] The Republicans want to repeal the Affordable Care Act. I want to improve it. I want to build on it, [8:13] get the cost down, get prescription drug costs down. Senator Sanders wants us to start all over [8:18] again. This was a major achievement of President Obama, of our country. It is helping people right [8:26] now. I am not going to wait and have this plunge back into a contentious national debate that has very [8:32] little chance of succeeding. Let's make the Affordable Care Act work for everyone. [8:36] Let me just say this, as Secretary Clinton may know, I am on the Health Education Labor Committee. [8:48] That committee wrote the Affordable Care Act. The idea that I would dismantle health care in America [8:55] while we're waiting to pass a Medicare for all is just not accurate. The Affordable Care Act has [9:02] clearly, as Secretary Clinton made the point, done a lot of good things. But what it has not done [9:09] is dealt with the fact that we have 29 million people today who have zero health insurance. [9:14] We have even more who are underinsured with large deductibles and copayments, [9:20] prescription drug prices are off the wall. So I do believe that in the future, not by dismantling what [9:28] we have here. I helped write that bill. But by moving forward, rallying the American people, [9:34] I do believe we should have health care for all. All right. Thank you both. Rachel. [9:39] Secretary Clinton, Senator Sanders is campaigning against you now, at this point in the campaign, [9:48] basically by arguing that you are not progressive enough to be the Democratic nominee. He has said [9:54] that if you voted for the Iraq war, if you are in favor of the death penalty, if you wobbled on [9:59] things like the Keystone Pipeline or TPP, if you said single-payer health care could never happen, [10:03] then you're too far to the right of the Democratic Party to be the party's standard-bearer. [10:10] Given those policy positions, why should liberal Democrats support you and not Senator Sanders? [10:15] Well, because I am a progressive who gets things done. And the root of that word, [10:21] progressive, is progress. But I've heard Senator Sanders' comments, [10:26] and it's really caused me to wonder, who's left in the progressive wing of the Democratic Party? [10:32] Under his definition, President Obama's not progressive because he took donations from Wall Street. [10:38] Vice President Biden is not progressive because he supported Keystone. [10:42] Senator Shaheen is not progressive because she supports the Trade Pact. [10:47] Even the late, great Senator Paul Wellstone would not fit this definition because he voted for DOMA. [10:53] You know, we have differences, and honestly, I think we should be talking about what we want to do [10:58] for the country. But if we're going to get into labels, [11:01] I don't think it was particularly progressive to vote against the Brady Bill five times. [11:05] I don't think it was progressive to vote to get gun makers and sellers immunity. [11:10] I don't think it was progressive to vote against Ted Kennedy's immigration reform. [11:14] So we can go back and forth like this. [11:17] But the fact is, most people watching tonight want to know what we've done and what we will do. [11:23] That's why I am laying out a specific agenda that will make progress, get more jobs with rising incomes, [11:32] get us to universal health care coverage, get us to universal pre-K, paid family leave, [11:38] and the other elements of what I think will build a strong economy that will ensure that Americans keep making progress. [11:46] That's what I'm offering, and that's what I will do as president. [11:48] Senator Sanders, how do you establish a list of what it means to be a progressive that is unrealistic? [11:56] No, not at all. Here's the reality of American economic life today. [12:02] The reality is that we have one of the lowest voter turnouts of any major country on earth [12:08] because so many people have given up on the political process. [12:10] The reality is that there has been trillions of dollars of wealth going from the middle class in the last 30 years [12:19] to the top one-tenth of one percent. [12:22] The reality is that we have a corrupt campaign finance system [12:27] which separates the American people's needs and desires from what Congress is doing. [12:36] So to my mind, what we have got to do is wage a political revolution [12:40] where millions of people who have given up on the political process [12:44] stand up and fight back, demand a government that represents us [12:49] and not just a handful of campaign contributions, contributors. [12:54] Now, all of the ideas that I'm talking about, they are not radical ideas. [13:00] Doing, making public colleges and universities tuition-free. [13:04] That exists in countries all over the world, used to exist in the United States. [13:08] Rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and creating 13 million jobs [13:14] by doing away with tax loopholes that large corporations now enjoy [13:20] by putting their money into the Cayman Islands and other tax havens. [13:24] That is not a radical idea. [13:27] What we need to do is to stand up to the big money interests [13:31] and the campaign contributors. [13:34] When we do that, we can, in fact, transform America. [13:38] Let's go. Thank you, Senator. [13:44] That Secretary Clinton said, Senator, [13:47] you know, President Obama has not called for abolishing the death penalty. [13:49] President Obama is for the big Asian trade deal known as TPP. [13:53] And just yesterday, you said you can't be both a moderate or a progressive, [13:57] but you can't be both. [13:59] Is President Obama, in your judgment, [14:01] based on these policy positions, a progressive? [14:04] Let me just pick up on this point. [14:06] This whole discussion began because I commented, [14:10] not making an overall evaluation about the secretary. [14:13] She was in Ohio, I think, in September or November. [14:17] And she got up and said something like, [14:20] I have been, I'm paraphrasing, [14:21] I have been criticized because people think I'm a moderate. [14:26] Well, I am a moderate. [14:27] That's where this came from. [14:28] It wasn't me paraphrasing her. [14:30] It is what she said. [14:31] And all that I said is nothing wrong with being a moderate. [14:34] But you can't be a moderate. [14:35] You can't be a progressive. [14:36] In terms of President Obama, [14:38] I think if we remember where this country was seven years ago, [14:43] 800,000 jobs being lost every month, [14:48] $1.4 trillion deficit, [14:51] the world's financial system on the verge of collapse, [14:55] I think that President Obama, Vice President Biden, [14:58] and the Democratic leadership [14:59] in the House and the Senate have done a fantastic job. [15:02] We are in much better shape today [15:04] than we were seven years ago, [15:06] although my Republican colleagues [15:08] seem to have forgotten where we were seven years ago. [15:12] That's the fact. [15:13] But we still have a very long way to go. [15:16] Do I think President Obama is a progressive? [15:18] Yeah, I do. [15:20] I disagree with him on a number of issues, [15:22] including the trade agreement. [15:24] But, yes, I think he has done an excellent job. [15:27] Well, Chuck, if I could, [15:28] you know, in the very first debate, [15:31] I was asked, [15:32] am I a moderate or a progressive? [15:34] And I said, [15:34] I'm a progressive who likes to get things done, [15:36] and cherry-picking a quote here or there [15:39] doesn't change my record [15:40] of having fought for racial justice, [15:43] having fought for kids' rights, [15:45] having fought against the kind of inequities [15:47] that fueled my interest in service in the first place, [15:51] going back to my days in the Children's Defense Fund. [15:54] It certainly didn't stop me [15:55] from taking on the drug companies [15:57] and the insurance companies [15:58] before it was called Hillarycare. [16:01] It was called, [16:02] I mean, before it was called Obamacare, [16:03] it was called Hillarycare [16:04] because we took them on, [16:05] and we weren't successful, [16:07] but we kept fighting, [16:08] and we got the Children's Health Insurance Program. [16:10] And every step along the way, [16:12] I have stood up and fought [16:13] and have the scars to prove it. [16:15] So, again, I think it's important that, [16:18] look, I understand Senator Sanders [16:24] is really trying to distinguish himself. [16:27] I understand that. [16:28] That's what you do in campaigns. [16:30] But at the same time, [16:31] let's not be in, I think, [16:35] an unfair way, [16:37] making an accusation [16:40] or making an attack [16:41] about where I stand [16:43] and where I've always stood. [16:44] And it is fair to say, Senator, [16:47] that in your definition [16:49] as you being the self-proclaimed [16:51] gatekeeper for progressivism, [16:53] I don't know anyone else [16:54] who fits that definition. [16:56] But I know a lot of really [16:57] hard-fighting progressives [17:00] in the Democratic Party [17:01] who have stood up time and time again [17:03] against special interests, [17:05] against the powerful, [17:06] on behalf of those who are left behind [17:08] and left out. [17:09] And that's what we ought to be celebrating. [17:11] Let's talk about what we would do [17:12] as president and commander-in-chief [17:14] to make sure the progress continues [17:16] into the future. [17:19] Go on, Senator. [17:19] 30 seconds, [17:20] and then we'll move on. [17:21] That's right. [17:22] I mean, instead of arguing [17:23] about definitions, [17:24] let's talk about... [17:25] You began it yesterday [17:26] with your comments. [17:27] ...what we should do. [17:28] And one of the things [17:29] we should do [17:30] is not only talk the talk [17:32] but walk the walk. [17:34] I am very proud [17:35] to be the only candidate up here [17:37] who does not have a super PAC, [17:40] who is not raising huge sums of money [17:42] from Wall Street [17:43] or special interests. [17:44] And enormously proud. [17:47] Never believed it would happen [17:49] that we have raised [17:50] three and a half million [17:51] individual contributions [17:53] averaging $27 apiece. [17:56] That is what [17:57] the political revolution means. [17:59] Senator Sanders, [18:04] as a Vermonter, [18:06] you have almost a home state [18:08] advantage here in New Hampshire. [18:10] But back home, [18:11] across the border, [18:12] you also have a long history [18:13] of running against Democrats [18:15] as a third-party candidate [18:17] for governor, [18:18] for Senate, [18:18] for Congress. [18:19] In 1988, [18:21] your candidacy [18:21] as a third-party candidate [18:23] arguably cost the Democrats [18:25] a congressional seat [18:26] and sent a Republican instead. [18:28] How can you lead [18:30] the Democratic Party [18:31] nationally [18:32] when you have not been [18:33] a member of the Democratic Party [18:34] until very recently? [18:35] Well, Rachel, [18:36] actually, [18:36] that wasn't accurate. [18:37] In 1988, [18:39] the Republican did win, [18:40] I believe, [18:40] by three points. [18:41] I came in second. [18:43] It was 34, 31, [18:44] I think 19 for the Democrat. [18:46] In that race, [18:47] the Democrat [18:48] was the spoiler, [18:49] not me. [18:50] And it is true. [18:51] It's true. [18:57] It's not to be denied. [18:58] I am the longest-serving [19:00] independent [19:00] in the history [19:01] of the United States Congress. [19:03] People of Vermont [19:04] sent me to Washington [19:05] as an independent. [19:06] That is true. [19:07] But on the other hand, [19:09] I have, [19:10] when I was in the House [19:11] for 16 years, [19:12] I caucused with the Democrats. [19:14] In the Senate, [19:15] for nine years, [19:16] caucused with the Democrats, [19:18] of course. [19:19] And I was elected [19:21] by the Democrats [19:22] to be chair [19:23] of the Veterans Committee [19:24] a couple, [19:25] three years ago, [19:26] which I'm very proud of. [19:27] And now I'm the ranking member [19:28] on the Budget Committee, [19:30] leader of the Democrats [19:31] in opposition [19:32] to the majority Republicans. [19:33] I am running for president [19:35] as a Democrat. [19:39] And if elected, [19:40] not only do I hope [19:41] to bring forth [19:41] a major change [19:44] in national priorities, [19:45] but let me be frank, [19:46] I do want to see [19:48] major changes [19:49] in the Democratic Party. [19:50] I want to see [19:51] working people [19:52] and young people [19:53] come into the party [19:54] in a way [19:55] that doesn't exist now. [19:56] And you know what? [19:57] I want a 50-state strategy [20:00] so the Democratic Party [20:01] is not just the party [20:02] of 25 states. [20:04] Secretary Clinton. [20:05] Clinton, you know, [20:10] the person who first [20:11] put out the idea [20:13] of a 50-state party strategy [20:16] is former Governor [20:17] Howard Dean, [20:17] who's with us tonight. [20:19] And I'm very proud [20:22] and grateful [20:23] to have the support [20:24] of so many elected [20:25] Vermonters [20:26] and former officials. [20:27] two former governors, [20:29] the current governor, [20:31] the current other senator. [20:33] I really appreciate that. [20:35] And I think it's because [20:36] they've worked with me, [20:38] they've seen what I do, [20:39] they know what a kind [20:40] of a colleague I am, [20:42] they want me [20:43] as their partner [20:43] in the White House, [20:44] and that's exactly [20:45] what I will do. [20:46] We'll get things done together. [20:48] Democrats, Republicans, [20:50] independents, [20:50] we're going to make [20:51] progress together [20:52] when I'm president. [20:53] Senator Sanders, [20:54] to this point, [20:56] Secretary Clinton [20:57] is raising the issue [20:58] of endorsements [20:59] by your home state Democrats. [21:03] She's implying [21:04] that that says something [21:06] about the people [21:06] who know you best. [21:07] Well, I don't see [21:08] it quite like that. [21:10] How do you see it? [21:11] I will absolutely admit [21:15] that Secretary Clinton [21:16] has the support [21:17] of far more governors, [21:19] mayors, [21:20] members of the House. [21:21] She has the entire establishment, [21:23] or almost the entire establishment, [21:26] behind them. [21:27] That's a fact. [21:28] I don't deny it. [21:29] But I am pretty proud [21:30] that we have over [21:31] a million people [21:32] who have contributed [21:33] to our campaign, [21:35] averaging 27 bucks apiece, [21:37] that we have had meetings [21:38] where 25,000, 30,000 people [21:41] have come out, [21:43] that our campaign [21:44] is a campaign [21:45] of the people, [21:46] by the people, [21:47] and for the people. [21:48] So, Rachel, yes, [21:51] Secretary Clinton [21:52] does represent [21:53] the establishment. [21:54] I represent, [21:55] I hope, [21:56] ordinary Americans, [21:58] and by the way, [21:58] who are not all that [22:00] inavid with the establishment, [22:02] but I am very proud [22:03] to have people [22:04] like Keith Ellison [22:05] and Raul Grijalva [22:06] in the House, [22:08] the co-chairman [22:08] of the House [22:09] Progressive Caucus. [22:10] Well, look, [22:11] I've got to just jump in here [22:13] because, honestly, [22:15] Senator Sanders [22:16] is the only person [22:17] who I think [22:18] would characterize me, [22:20] a woman running [22:22] to be the first woman president, [22:24] as exemplifying [22:25] the establishment. [22:26] And I've got to tell you [22:27] that it's really [22:35] quite amusing to me. [22:37] People support me [22:39] because they know me, [22:40] they know my life's work, [22:41] they have worked with me, [22:43] and many have also worked [22:44] with Senator Sanders. [22:46] And at the end of the day, [22:47] they endorse me [22:48] because they know [22:49] I can get things done. [22:52] I am not going to make promises [22:53] I can't keep. [22:54] I am not going to talk [22:57] about big ideas [22:59] like single-payer [23:00] and then not level with people [23:03] about how much it will cost. [23:04] A respected health economist [23:06] said that these plans [23:07] would cost a trillion dollars [23:09] more a year. [23:10] I'm not going to tell people [23:12] that I will raise your incomes [23:14] and not your taxes [23:16] and not mean it [23:18] because I don't want [23:19] to see the kind of struggle [23:22] that the middle class [23:23] is going through [23:24] exemplified by these promises [23:27] that would raise taxes [23:29] and make it much more difficult [23:31] for many, many Americans [23:33] to get ahead and stay ahead. [23:35] That is not my agenda. [23:37] Senator Sanders, [23:38] you have 30 seconds [23:39] to respond to that. [23:42] What being part [23:44] of the establishment is [23:45] is in the last quarter [23:47] having a super PAC [23:48] that raised $15 million [23:50] from Wall Street [23:51] that throughout one's life [23:53] raised a whole lot of money [23:54] from the drug companies [23:56] and other special interests. [23:59] to my mind, [24:01] if we do not get a handle [24:03] on money in politics [24:05] and the degree to which [24:07] big money controls [24:08] the political process [24:10] in this country, [24:11] nobody is going to bring [24:13] about the changes [24:14] that is needed in this country [24:15] for the middle class [24:16] and working families. [24:18] Yeah, but I think [24:19] it's fair to really ask [24:22] what's behind that comment. [24:25] You know, Senator Sanders [24:26] has said he wants [24:29] to run a positive campaign. [24:30] I've tried to keep [24:31] my disagreements over issues [24:33] as it should be. [24:35] But time and time again, [24:38] by innuendo, [24:39] by insinuation, [24:41] there is this attack [24:44] that he is putting forth, [24:46] which really comes down to, [24:48] you know, anybody [24:50] who ever took donations [24:51] or speaking fees [24:52] from any interest group [24:55] has to be bought. [24:58] And I just absolutely [24:59] reject that, Senator. [25:01] And I really don't think [25:03] these kinds of attacks [25:04] by insinuation [25:05] are worthy of you. [25:07] And enough is enough. [25:09] If you've got something to say, [25:10] say it directly. [25:12] But you will not find [25:13] that I ever changed a view [25:16] or a vote [25:17] because of any donation [25:19] that I ever received. [25:20] And I have stood up [25:22] and I have represented [25:24] my constituents [25:25] to the best of my ability. [25:28] And I'm very proud of that. [25:29] So I think it's time [25:31] to end the very artful smear [25:33] that you and your campaign [25:34] have been carrying out [25:36] in recent weeks. [25:38] And let's talk, [25:39] let's talk about the issues. [25:41] Let's talk about the issues [25:43] that divide us. [25:44] We both agree with campaign [25:47] finance reform. [25:48] Let's talk about issues. [25:49] I worked hard for McCain-Feingold. [25:51] I want to reverse Citizens United. [25:52] Let's talk about issues. [25:54] Let's talk about issues. [25:55] Let's talk about issues. [25:56] All right, let's talk about [25:58] why in the 1990s [26:00] Wall Street got deregulated. [26:02] Did it have anything to do [26:04] with the fact that Wall Street [26:06] provided, spent billions of dollars [26:09] on lobbying and campaign contributions? [26:12] Well, some people might think, [26:14] yeah, that had some influence. [26:16] Let's ask why it is [26:18] that we pay by far [26:19] the highest prices in the world [26:21] for prescription drugs [26:22] and your medicine [26:23] can be doubled tomorrow [26:25] and there's nothing [26:26] that the government can do [26:27] to stop it. [26:28] You think it has anything to do [26:30] with the huge amounts [26:31] of campaign contributions [26:33] and lobbying [26:34] for the fossil fuel industry? [26:36] Let's talk about climate change. [26:38] Do you think there is a reason [26:40] why not one Republican [26:42] has the guts [26:43] to recognize [26:45] that climate change is real [26:46] and that we need to transform [26:48] our energy system? [26:50] Do you think it has anything [26:51] to do with the Koch brothers [26:52] and ExxonMobil [26:53] pouring huge amounts of money [26:55] into the political system? [26:58] That is what goes on in America. [27:00] I am not. [27:01] I like... [27:01] There is a reason [27:14] why these people [27:15] are putting huge amounts of money [27:17] into our political system. [27:19] and in my view, [27:21] it is undermining [27:22] American democracy [27:23] and it is allowing Congress [27:26] to represent [27:26] wealthy campaign contributors [27:28] and not the working families [27:30] of this country. [27:31] Senator, I don't think... [27:33] I don't think any person [27:39] in political life today [27:42] who has been subjected [27:43] to more attacks [27:44] and had more money spent [27:46] against her [27:46] by special interests [27:48] among whom you have named a few [27:50] than I. [27:51] And I'm proud of that. [27:52] You know, when I took on [27:54] the drug companies [27:54] and the insurance companies [27:55] for universal health care coverage, [27:57] they went after me [27:58] with a vengeance. [27:59] Today, you've got hedge fund [28:00] billionaires aligned with Karl Rove [28:03] running ads against me [28:05] to try to get Democrats [28:06] to vote for you. [28:07] I know this game. [28:09] I'm going to stop this game. [28:10] But while we're talking about votes, [28:13] you're the one who voted [28:14] to deregulate swaps [28:16] and derivatives in 2000 [28:18] which contributed [28:19] to the overleveraging [28:20] of Lehman Brothers [28:21] which was one of the culprits [28:23] that brought down the economy. [28:25] So I don't know... [28:26] I'm not impugning your motive [28:28] because you voted [28:29] to deregulate swaps [28:30] and derivatives. [28:31] People make mistakes [28:32] and I'm certainly not saying [28:33] you did it [28:34] for any kind of financial advantage. [28:36] What we've got to do [28:37] as Democrats... [28:38] What we've got to do [28:39] as Democrats [28:40] is to be united [28:41] to actually solve these problems [28:44] and what I believe [28:45] is that I have a better track record [28:47] and a better opportunity [28:49] to actually get that job done. [28:51] That's what this election [28:52] should be about. [28:53] Sorry, sorry. [28:54] 30 seconds [28:55] and then we're going to move on. [28:58] I think as Secretary Clinton knows [29:02] there is nobody [29:04] who fought harder. [29:05] I was on the House [29:06] Financial Committee [29:07] at that point. [29:08] I heard the arguments [29:09] coming from Democrats [29:10] and Republicans [29:12] Robert Rubin, [29:14] Alan Greenspan [29:14] about how great an idea [29:17] it would be [29:17] if we did away [29:18] with Glass-Steagall [29:19] and if we allowed [29:21] investor banks [29:22] and commercial banks [29:23] and big insurance companies [29:24] to merge. [29:25] Go to YouTube today. [29:28] Look up Greenspan Sanders. [29:31] Listen to what I told them then. [29:33] I helped lead the effort [29:35] against deregulation. [29:37] Unfortunately, we lost that. [29:39] The result is... [29:40] It was the worst financial disaster [29:43] since the Great Depression. [29:45] Thank you both. [29:46] Senator Sanders, [29:47] Secretary Clinton, [29:48] obviously we've touched a nerve. [29:50] We're going to be back with more [29:51] on this subject [29:51] and much more right after this. [29:52] Stay with us. [29:53] Okay. [30:02] Senator Sanders, [30:03] you were talking about [30:04] all of your campaign contributions [30:06] and campaign finance reform. [30:07] You rail against big money [30:08] in politics. [30:10] But do you realize [30:11] there is one public financing system [30:14] that we do have in place [30:15] and it is in place [30:17] to run for president. [30:19] Why aren't you walking the walk on that? [30:21] Why aren't you participating [30:22] in the presidential public financing system [30:26] which is designed [30:27] to essentially keep big money [30:30] out of presidential politics? [30:31] Chuck, actually, [30:32] we looked at it. [30:33] But it turns out [30:33] to be a disaster. [30:34] The way it is structured right now, [30:36] if you make it all the way [30:37] to California, [30:38] you could do pretty well. [30:39] But in terms of the early states, [30:41] Iowa and New Hampshire, [30:42] the other states, [30:42] it just doesn't work. [30:44] But your point is well taken. [30:46] I believe in public funding [30:48] of elections. [30:49] Absolutely. [30:49] But this system is, [30:50] I don't know if the secretary [30:51] would agree, [30:52] is currently very antiquated [30:54] and no longer applies [30:55] to modern-day politics. [30:57] Well, going on that, [30:59] then why criticize her [31:01] on super PACs [31:01] and you've got all this [31:03] when it is, [31:04] you know, [31:05] that's the system. [31:05] I mean, [31:06] you could be participating [31:07] in a publicly financing, [31:08] public financing system [31:09] and being able to set, [31:11] being able to set an example. [31:12] It's a public financing system [31:13] that everybody knows [31:14] is antiquated. [31:15] It no longer works. [31:16] Nobody can become president [31:18] based on that system. [31:19] So what's the alternative? [31:21] There are two alternatives. [31:23] And, you know, [31:23] we looked at it. [31:24] Well, should we do a super PAC? [31:25] But I concluded, [31:26] honestly, [31:27] I don't represent [31:28] corporate America [31:28] or billionaires. [31:29] I didn't want it. [31:30] So the other alternative [31:31] was to ask working families [31:33] and the middle class [31:34] to help out [31:35] in a transformational campaign. [31:37] And you know what? [31:38] We got three and a half million [31:39] individual contributions, [31:41] 27 bucks apiece. [31:43] I think that's pretty good. [31:45] Secretary Clinton, [31:49] Wall Street. [31:50] On the issue of Wall Street. [31:51] On the issue of Wall Street, [31:52] when our reporters [31:53] go out and talk to people [31:54] on the ground in the early states, [31:55] what they tell us over and over again [31:56] when they find voters [31:58] who are leaning [31:59] towards Senator Sanders [32:00] rather than yourself, [32:01] is that the most frequent [32:03] area of concern [32:04] that they hear [32:05] from those voters [32:06] is the issue of Wall Street [32:08] and whether or not [32:09] you are too close to Wall Street. [32:10] Last night, [32:11] when you were asked [32:12] about speaking fees [32:13] and the amount of speaking fees [32:14] you got from Goldman Sachs speeches, [32:16] you said that's what they offered. [32:18] Have you been too dismissive [32:20] of voters' concerns [32:22] about this issue [32:23] in your own campaign [32:24] and your own career? [32:24] Well, you know, Rachel, [32:25] I think I may not have done [32:27] the job I should [32:28] in explaining my record. [32:30] You know, I did [32:31] when I left [32:31] the Secretary of State's office. [32:33] Like so many former officials, [32:34] military leaders, [32:36] journalists, others, [32:37] I did go on the speaking circuit. [32:39] I spoke to heart doctors. [32:42] I spoke to [32:43] the American Camping Association. [32:46] I spoke to auto dealers. [32:47] And yes, [32:47] I spoke to firms on Wall Street. [32:49] They wanted me [32:50] to talk about the world, [32:51] what my experience [32:52] had been as Secretary of State. [32:55] But what I want people to know is [32:57] I went to Wall Street [32:58] before the crash. [32:59] I was the one saying [33:01] you're going to wreck the economy [33:02] because of these shenanigans [33:05] with mortgages. [33:06] I called to end [33:07] the carried interest loophole [33:08] that hedge fund managers enjoy. [33:11] I proposed changes [33:12] in CEO compensation. [33:14] I called for a consumer [33:15] protection financial bureau [33:17] before it was created. [33:19] And I think the best evidence [33:20] that the Wall Street people [33:23] at least know [33:24] where I stand [33:25] and where I have always stood [33:27] is because they are trying [33:29] to beat me in this primary. [33:31] They have collected [33:32] and spent as much [33:34] as $6 million on these ads. [33:36] Hedge fund billionaires, [33:37] Karl Rove, [33:38] another billionaire jumped in. [33:40] And why are they doing that? [33:41] These are guys [33:42] who try to make smart investments. [33:44] They know my record. [33:46] They know me. [33:47] They know that I say [33:48] what I believe [33:49] and I will do it. [33:50] And I also have [33:51] a pretty good understanding [33:52] about how to stop them. [33:54] So I do want people to know that. [33:56] And I think it's important [33:57] for everybody to understand [33:59] I have a record. [34:01] I have stood firm [34:02] and I will be the person [34:03] who prevents them [34:04] from ever wrecking [34:05] the economy again. [34:06] Senator Sanders, [34:07] you have been [34:08] critic of Secretary Clinton [34:12] taking those speaking fees [34:13] and having donations [34:14] from Wall Street. [34:15] What about her defense [34:16] of her record? [34:17] Let me just say this. [34:23] Wall Street is perhaps [34:25] the most powerful [34:27] economic and political force [34:29] in this country. [34:31] You have companies [34:32] like Goldman Sachs [34:34] who just recently [34:36] paid a settlement fine [34:39] with the federal government [34:40] for $5 billion [34:42] for defrauding investors. [34:46] Goldman Sachs [34:47] was one of those companies [34:49] whose illegal activity [34:52] helped destroy our economy [34:54] and ruin the lives [34:55] of millions of Americans. [34:58] But this is what [34:59] a rigged economy [35:01] and a corrupt campaign [35:02] finance system [35:03] and a broken criminal [35:06] justice system [35:07] is about. [35:07] These guys are so powerful [35:09] that not one of the executives [35:13] on Wall Street [35:14] has been charged [35:15] with anything [35:17] after paying, [35:18] in this case of Goldman Sachs, [35:20] a $5 billion fine. [35:22] Kid gets caught with marijuana, [35:24] that kid has a police record. [35:26] A Wall Street executive [35:27] destroys the economy, [35:29] $5 billion settlement, [35:31] no criminal record. [35:35] That is what power is about, [35:37] that is what corruption [35:38] is about, [35:39] and that is what has to change [35:41] in the United States of America. [35:43] It has to change, [35:57] and that's why [35:58] I have put forward [35:59] a plan to do just that. [36:02] And it's been judged [36:03] to be the toughest, [36:04] most effective, [36:05] and comprehensive one. [36:06] I have great respect [36:07] for Senator Sanders' [36:09] commitment [36:09] to try to restore Glass-Steagall. [36:12] But I do not believe [36:13] that that is enough. [36:15] And in fact, [36:16] I don't believe [36:16] it really addresses [36:17] a lot of the biggest issues we have. [36:19] You know, [36:20] we now have power [36:21] under the Dodd-Frank legislation [36:22] to break up banks, [36:23] and I've said, [36:24] I will use that power [36:25] if they pose a systemic risk. [36:27] But I want to go further, [36:28] because it was investment banks, [36:30] it was insurance companies, [36:31] it was mortgage companies, [36:32] all of which contributed. [36:34] So let's not just be [36:36] narrowly focused [36:37] on one part of the problem. [36:39] We have a lot of issues [36:40] with corporate power [36:41] that have to be addressed. [36:42] My plan takes us further, [36:44] and it would do the job. [36:45] Secretary Clinton. [36:46] I would say that [36:47] folks who have looked [36:50] at this issue [36:51] for a long time, [36:52] whether it's Elizabeth Warren [36:53] or many other economists, [36:56] would tell you [36:56] that right now, [36:57] yes, [36:57] we do need [36:58] a 21st century [36:59] Glass-Steagall legislation. [37:01] And I would tell you also [37:02] that when you have [37:04] three out of the four [37:05] largest banks [37:06] in America today, [37:08] bigger than they were, [37:09] significantly bigger, [37:10] than when we bailed them out [37:12] because they were [37:12] too big to fail. [37:14] I think if Teddy Roosevelt [37:16] were alive today, [37:17] a good Republican, [37:18] by the way, [37:19] what he would say is [37:20] break them up. [37:22] They are too powerful [37:23] economically, [37:24] they are too powerful [37:25] politically. [37:26] And that is what I believe [37:28] and many economists believe. [37:30] Time to break them up. [37:32] Look, we have a law. [37:33] I appreciate the senator's advocacy. [37:38] We have a law. [37:40] It was passed. [37:41] It was signed by President Obama. [37:44] It lays out a process [37:45] that you go through [37:47] to determine whether [37:48] a systemic risk is posed. [37:50] And by the way, [37:51] President Obama signed that, [37:53] pushed it through, [37:54] even though he took [37:55] donations from Wall Street [37:56] because he's a responsible [37:57] president. [37:59] So we have a law in place. [38:02] If the circumstances warranted, [38:04] I will certainly use it. [38:06] And from what you say, [38:07] I know you will as well. [38:08] But that is not enough. [38:10] And I keep going back to this [38:12] because part of the reason [38:13] the Wall Street guys [38:14] are trying so hard to stop me, [38:16] the hedge fund guys, [38:17] the shadow banking guys, [38:19] is because I've got their number [38:21] on all of that. [38:22] And my plan goes so much further [38:24] to try to prevent the problems [38:26] of the future. [38:28] You know, we can't just fight [38:29] the last war. [38:30] We've got to be prepared [38:31] to stop these guys [38:32] if they ever try to use [38:33] their economic power once again [38:35] to hurt the economy [38:37] and to hurt so many Americans. [38:39] And my plan, [38:40] Paul Krugman, [38:41] Barney Frank, [38:41] a lot of experts [38:42] who understand [38:43] what the new challenges [38:44] might be have said [38:46] I am exactly on point [38:47] and the Wall Street guys [38:49] actually know that. [38:50] Go ahead, Senator. [38:51] And responding to the fact [38:52] that she has had [38:53] more people praise [38:54] her plan than yours. [38:55] Well, we've got a number [38:56] of economists supporting [38:57] our legislation. [38:59] And here's where we are. [39:01] The American people can judge. [39:04] Six largest financial institutions [39:06] in America today [39:07] have assets of roughly [39:09] $10 trillion, [39:10] equivalent to 58% of the GDP [39:14] of the United States of America. [39:16] That is a lot of money. [39:17] They issue two-thirds [39:19] of the credit cards. [39:21] And by the way, [39:21] they're ripping off [39:22] a whole lot of people [39:23] with high interest rates [39:24] on the credit cards. [39:26] And they write about [39:27] one-third of the mortgages. [39:29] That is a lot of power [39:31] for six financial institutions. [39:33] That's it. [39:34] I think it is too much power. [39:36] Too much economic power, [39:37] too much political power. [39:39] And the economists [39:40] that I talk to say [39:41] we should break them up. [39:42] Thank you both. [39:43] Let me move on [39:43] to our next question here. [39:44] And in fact, [39:45] it comes to us [39:45] through New England Cable News. [39:47] Secretary Clinton, [39:47] it's addressed to you. [39:49] And it's about this issue [39:49] of the speeches, [39:50] particularly to Goldman Sachs. [39:52] This is what the questioner [39:53] wrote, [39:54] verbatim. [39:55] I am concerned [39:56] with the abuses [39:56] of Wall Street [39:57] has taken with [39:57] the American taxpayer's money. [39:59] And then she asked [40:00] whether you would release [40:01] the transcripts [40:02] of your Goldman Sachs speeches [40:04] and then added, [40:05] don't you think [40:06] the voting public [40:06] has a right to know [40:07] what was said? [40:09] But let's make that bigger. [40:10] Are you willing to release [40:11] the transcripts [40:12] of all your paid speeches? [40:13] We do know [40:14] through reporting [40:15] that there were [40:16] transcription services [40:17] for all of those paid speeches. [40:18] In full disclosure, [40:20] would you release all of them? [40:21] I will look into it. [40:22] I don't know the status, [40:23] but I will certainly look into it. [40:25] But I can only repeat [40:26] what is the fact [40:27] that I spoke to a lot [40:30] of different groups [40:30] with a lot of different [40:32] constituents, [40:32] a lot of different kinds [40:33] of members [40:34] about issues [40:35] that had to do [40:36] with world affairs. [40:38] I probably described [40:39] more times [40:40] than I can remember [40:41] how stressful it was [40:43] advising the president [40:44] about going after bin Laden. [40:45] So my view on this is [40:48] look at my record. [40:51] Look at what I am proposing. [40:53] And we don't, [40:55] we have a vigorous agreement here. [40:58] We both want to rain in [40:59] the excesses of Wall Street. [41:01] I also want to rain in [41:02] the excesses of companies [41:04] like Johnson Controls [41:06] that we bailed out [41:07] when they were an auto parts company [41:09] and we saved the auto industry. [41:10] Now they want to avoid paying taxes. [41:12] I want to go after [41:13] the pharmaceutical companies [41:14] like Valiant and Turing [41:17] that are increasing prices [41:18] without any regard [41:20] to the impact on people's health. [41:22] So I have a broader view. [41:24] Now, if all we're going to talk about [41:26] is one part of our economy [41:28] and indeed one street [41:30] in our economy, [41:31] we're missing the big oil companies. [41:33] We're missing other big energy companies. [41:34] We're missing the big picture. [41:36] And I have a record [41:37] of trying to go at the problems [41:39] that actually exist [41:41] and I will continue to do that. [41:42] Senator, do you sound like [41:43] you want to respond? [41:43] Go ahead. [41:43] I do. [41:45] I agree with much [41:47] of what the secretary said. [41:49] But, Madam Secretary, [41:50] it is not one street. [41:52] Wall Street is an entity [41:54] of unbelievable economic [41:56] and political power. [41:58] That's a fact. [41:59] And I want to say something [42:00] and it may sound harsh, [42:01] not to you, [42:01] but to the American people [42:04] in this sense, [42:06] in my view, [42:06] the business model [42:08] of Wall Street [42:09] is fraud. [42:11] It's fraud. [42:12] I believe that corruption [42:15] is rampant [42:16] and the fact that major bank [42:18] after major bank [42:19] has reached [42:20] multi-billion dollar settlements [42:21] with the United States government [42:24] when we have a weak [42:26] regulatory system [42:28] tells me [42:29] that not only did we have [42:31] to bail them out once, [42:33] if we don't start breaking them up, [42:34] we're going to have [42:35] to bail them out again. [42:36] And I do not want [42:38] to see that happen. [42:39] Well, Senator, [42:39] no one wants [42:40] to see that happen. [42:41] I mean, look, [42:42] I care deeply about this [42:46] because just like you, [42:48] I have met so many people [42:50] who had their life savings wiped out, [42:52] who lost their homes, [42:54] who are barely back [42:56] with their heads above water. [42:58] This was a disaster [42:59] for our country. [43:00] And we can never [43:02] let that happen again. [43:03] We have no disagreement [43:04] about this. [43:05] But I think [43:06] it's a broader target list [43:08] than just Wall Street. [43:10] Sure. [43:11] And I believe [43:11] that we have to be [43:13] very focused [43:14] on how we try [43:15] to take back [43:16] the power [43:16] and increase [43:18] the empowerment [43:19] of the American people. [43:20] And I think [43:21] that I have [43:22] that kind of experience, [43:23] maybe because [43:24] they've beaten me up [43:24] for so many years [43:25] and I know exactly [43:27] how to handle them [43:28] because I've been [43:28] in the arena [43:29] with them time and time again. [43:30] Senator Sanders, [43:31] let me turn to, [43:33] I think, [43:33] where this direction [43:34] is heading anyway, [43:35] which is the broader issue [43:36] of big business [43:37] and power [43:37] in our political system. [43:39] You, [43:39] on the campaign trail, [43:40] have railed against [43:41] big-name American corporations [43:43] like Boeing [43:44] and General Electric [43:45] and Walmart. [43:47] But some big businesses [43:48] in this country [43:49] have also been part [43:50] of advancing progressive goals [43:52] like the nationwide initiative [43:53] to expand employment opportunities [43:55] for veterans. [43:57] That was all about cooperation [43:58] between the Obama administration [43:59] and some very big businesses. [44:01] The Affordable Care Act, [44:02] some of the thorniest problems [44:03] in that bill [44:04] were worked out [44:05] in cooperation [44:06] with big business [44:07] in order to accomplish [44:08] progressive goals. [44:10] Could you work with them? [44:12] Sure. [44:12] Or have you made enemies [44:14] of big business [44:15] in this country [44:15] with the way [44:16] you've approached them [44:17] in this campaign? [44:17] Of course I could work with them. [44:19] But let's be clear, [44:19] when I talked about Boeing [44:21] and I talked about [44:22] General Electric, [44:23] General Electric, [44:25] what I was referring to [44:26] is an outrage. [44:28] I suspect the secretary [44:29] agrees with me. [44:30] Right now, [44:31] you have a loophole [44:31] such that these guys [44:33] are putting their profits, [44:35] multi-billion dollar [44:36] profitable corporations, [44:37] putting billions of dollars [44:38] into the Cayman Islands, [44:40] Bermuda, [44:41] and other tax havens. [44:42] And in a given year, [44:44] Rachel, [44:44] after making billions [44:45] of dollars in profit, [44:47] you know how much [44:48] they're paying in taxes [44:49] to the United States government [44:50] in a given year? [44:51] Zero. [44:53] Now explain to me [44:54] how that makes [44:55] any sense at all. [44:56] So what I have said [44:57] with regard to Boeing [44:59] and GE [44:59] and other multinationals, [45:01] that pay zero taxes, [45:02] you know what we're going to do? [45:03] We're going to end [45:04] that loophole. [45:06] They are going to pay [45:07] their fair share of taxes. [45:08] We're going to use that money [45:09] to rebuild our infrastructure [45:11] and create up to 13 million jobs. [45:14] Can I work with corporations? [45:16] Are there good corporations [45:17] doing incredible, [45:19] cutting-edge research [45:20] and development? [45:21] Absolutely, they are. [45:22] And we should be proud of them. [45:25] But on the other hand, [45:26] there are many corporations [45:27] who have turned their backs [45:29] on the American worker, [45:31] who have said, [45:31] if I can make another nickel [45:33] in profit [45:33] by going to China [45:35] and shutting down [45:36] in the United States of America, [45:37] that's what I will do. [45:40] I will do my best [45:42] to transform [45:43] our trade policy [45:44] and take on [45:46] these corporations [45:46] who want to invest [45:48] in low-income countries [45:50] around the world [45:51] rather than [45:51] in the United States of America. [45:53] Senator Sanders, [45:53] thank you. [45:54] And with that, [45:55] we are going to take... [45:56] We'll be right back. [45:58] Get to trade [45:59] and a lot of other issues. [46:00] Both in terms of [46:15] some trade issues, [46:16] but also national security. [46:18] And Secretary Clinton, [46:19] we're going to start with you. [46:19] There are more than [46:21] 4,000 American troops [46:23] back in Iraq right now [46:25] as part of the fight [46:25] against ISIS. [46:26] It has been 15 straight years [46:28] of wars and multiple deployments [46:31] for America's military families [46:32] who have borne [46:33] such a disproportionate burden. [46:35] Is President Obama right [46:37] to keep escalating [46:38] the number of U.S. troops [46:40] that's fighting ISIS right now? [46:42] Well, I think [46:44] what the president understands [46:46] and what he's trying to do [46:47] is that we have to support [46:50] the Arab and Kurdish fighters [46:52] on the ground [46:53] who are actually doing the fighting. [46:55] I agree with the president. [46:57] I've said myself, [46:57] we will not send [46:58] American combat troops [46:59] back to either Syria or Iraq. [47:01] That is off the table. [47:02] But we do have special forces. [47:04] We do have trainers. [47:06] We do have military personnel [47:09] who are helping with the air strikes [47:10] that the United States is leading [47:12] so that we can try to take out [47:13] ISIS infrastructure, [47:14] take out their leadership. [47:15] And I think that given the threat [47:18] that ISIS poses to the region [47:20] and beyond, [47:21] as we have sadly seen [47:23] in our own country, [47:24] it is important [47:25] to keep the Iraqi army [47:27] on a path [47:28] where they can actually [47:29] take back territory [47:30] to work with the Sunni tribes [47:33] in Anbar province [47:35] and elsewhere [47:35] so that their fighters [47:37] can be also deployed [47:39] to work with the Kurds [47:41] to provide them the support. [47:43] But they're doing the fighting. [47:44] We're doing the support [47:46] and enabling. [47:47] And I also think [47:48] we've got to do more [47:49] to stop foreign fighters, [47:50] foreign funding [47:51] and take ISIS on online [47:53] as well as doing everything [47:54] necessary to keep us safe at home. [47:56] So as I look at [47:58] what the president is doing, [47:59] it adds up to me. [48:01] We just have to keep [48:02] trying to get more support [48:04] for those people on the ground [48:06] in Syria and Iraq [48:08] who have to actually physically [48:09] take the territory back. [48:10] To be clear, [48:11] to the specific question, [48:12] if that strategic goal [48:14] that you're describing [48:14] requires considerably [48:16] more Americans, [48:18] an ever-increasing number [48:19] of Americans in Iraq [48:20] and maybe in Syria, [48:21] are you okay [48:22] with the numbers increasing? [48:23] No. [48:23] I mean, of course, [48:24] that's a theoretical question [48:26] and we don't know [48:27] what it would be for [48:28] and we don't know [48:28] how many numbers there are. [48:29] I am against [48:30] American combat troops [48:32] being in Syria and Iraq. [48:34] I support special forces. [48:36] I support trainers. [48:37] I support the air campaign. [48:39] And I think [48:40] we're making some progress. [48:41] I want to continue [48:42] to intensify that [48:43] and that's exactly [48:44] what the president is doing. [48:46] Thank you, Madam Secretary. [48:47] Go ahead. [48:47] Senator Senator, [48:48] 30 seconds. [48:48] Let me agree [48:49] with much of what [48:50] the secretary said. [48:52] But where we have [48:53] a different background [48:55] on this issue [48:56] is we differed [48:58] on the war in Iraq [49:00] which created barbaric [49:02] organizations like ISIS. [49:05] Not only did I vote [49:06] against that war, [49:07] I helped lead the opposition. [49:09] And if you go to my website, [49:11] BernieSanders.com, [49:13] you will see [49:14] the statement [49:15] that I made in 2002. [49:17] And it gives me [49:17] no pleasure to tell you [49:19] that much of what [49:19] I feared would happen [49:20] the day after [49:22] Saddam Hussein was overthrown, [49:24] in fact, did happen. [49:26] All right. [49:26] Senator, I want to stay. [49:27] Go ahead. [49:27] 30 seconds. [49:28] If I could disrespectfully add. [49:30] Look, we did differ. [49:33] A vote in 2002 [49:35] is not a plan [49:35] to defeat ISIS. [49:37] We have to look [49:37] at the threats [49:38] that we face right now. [49:40] And we have to be prepared [49:41] to take them on [49:43] and defeat them. [49:44] We're staying [49:46] basically on this topic. [49:47] Obviously, [49:48] you've been emphasizing [49:48] this difference [49:49] on the Iraq war. [49:50] But one place [49:50] where you do agree [49:51] and one place [49:52] where you voted [49:52] to authorize the use of force [49:54] was in favor [49:55] of the war in Afghanistan. [49:56] Right now, [49:57] it is possible [49:58] President Obama [49:59] is going to be leaving [50:00] the next president, [50:01] perhaps President Sanders, [50:02] at least 10,000 [50:04] troops in Afghanistan. [50:05] How long [50:06] will those troops [50:08] be in Afghanistan [50:09] under President Sanders? [50:11] Well, [50:11] I think our great task [50:14] is to make certain [50:15] that our young men [50:16] and women [50:17] in the military [50:18] do not get sucked [50:20] into never-ending [50:21] perpetual warfare [50:22] within the quagmire [50:23] of Syria and Iraq. [50:26] And I will do [50:27] my very best [50:28] to make sure [50:29] that that doesn't happen. [50:32] I agree with the secretary [50:33] that I think [50:34] what has to happen [50:35] and let me just mention [50:36] what King Abdullah of Jordan said. [50:38] I think he hit the nail [50:39] on the head. [50:41] And what he said [50:41] is essentially [50:42] the war against ISIS [50:44] is a war [50:45] for the soul [50:46] of Islam. [50:48] And it must be [50:49] Muslim troops [50:50] on the ground [50:51] that will destroy ISIS [50:53] with the support [50:55] of a coalition [50:56] of major powers, [50:58] U.S., U.K., [50:59] France, [50:59] Germany, [51:00] and Russia. [51:01] So our job [51:03] is to provide them [51:04] the military equipment [51:05] that they need, [51:06] the air support [51:07] they need, [51:08] special forces [51:09] when appropriate. [51:10] But at the end [51:11] of the day [51:12] for a dozen [51:13] different reasons, [51:14] not the least of which [51:16] is that ISIS [51:17] would like [51:17] American combat troops [51:19] on the ground [51:20] so they can reach out [51:21] to the Muslim world [51:22] and say, [51:23] look, [51:23] we're taking on [51:24] those terrible Americans. [51:26] The combat on the ground [51:27] must be done [51:28] by Muslim troops [51:29] with our support. [51:31] We must not get involved [51:33] in perpetual warfare [51:34] in the Middle East. [51:35] Can you address [51:35] the question [51:36] on Afghanistan? [51:36] How long are these troops [51:39] going to be there? [51:39] If President Obama [51:40] leaves you 10,000 troops, [51:41] how long do you think [51:42] they're going to be there? [51:42] Well, you can't simply [51:42] withdraw tomorrow, [51:44] which we could, [51:45] and allow, you know, [51:46] the Taliban [51:47] or anybody else [51:48] to reclaim that country. [51:51] But what we must do [51:52] and what we have seen [51:54] in recent months [51:56] is some progress [51:57] in Iraq, [51:59] where finally, [52:00] the Iraqi army, [52:01] which has not been [52:02] a particularly effective [52:03] fighting force, [52:05] retook Ramadi. [52:06] ISIS has lost, [52:08] I think, 40% [52:09] of the territory [52:10] that it held [52:10] in the last year. [52:12] Hopefully, [52:12] and, you know, [52:13] one can't predict the future, [52:14] that maybe our training [52:16] and their fighting capabilities [52:18] are improving [52:19] and we are going to make [52:21] some progress [52:22] in destroying ISIS. [52:23] Secretary Clinton, [52:24] 30 seconds. [52:24] How long are these troops [52:25] going to be in Afghanistan? [52:26] We have more American troops [52:27] in Afghanistan right now [52:28] than what we were talking [52:29] about with Iraq. [52:29] Oh, absolutely. [52:30] The president decided [52:32] to leave more troops [52:33] than he had originally [52:33] planned in Afghanistan. [52:35] We have a very cooperative [52:37] government there [52:38] with Ashraf Ghani [52:41] and his top partner, [52:47] Abdullah, [52:48] and they are doing [52:49] their very best [52:50] and the Afghan army [52:51] is actually fighting. [52:52] The Afghan army [52:53] is taking heavy losses [52:54] defending Afghan territory. [52:57] And I would have to make [52:58] an evaluation [52:59] based on the circumstances [53:01] at the time I took office [53:02] as to how much help [53:04] they continue to need [53:05] because it's not just [53:06] the Taliban. [53:07] We now are seeing [53:08] outposts of, you know, [53:10] fighters claiming [53:11] to be affiliated with ISIS. [53:12] So we've got this arc [53:13] of instability [53:14] from North Africa [53:15] to South Asia [53:16] and we have to pay [53:18] close attention to it [53:19] and we have to build [53:20] coalitions, [53:20] something that I did [53:22] to take on [53:22] the Iranian nuclear program [53:23] and what I will do [53:24] as president [53:25] to make sure [53:26] that we defeat [53:27] these terrorist networks. [53:28] you know, Senator Sanders, [53:30] nobody knows [53:30] who your foreign policy [53:32] advisers are. [53:32] You haven't given [53:33] a major foreign policy speech [53:34] and it doesn't sound like [53:36] all the time [53:36] that foreign policy [53:37] is a priority [53:38] other than when you're [53:39] asked about it [53:40] and you say [53:40] you're going to crush ISIS [53:41] as you said last night [53:42] and earlier. [53:43] You have not proactively [53:45] laid out a foreign policy [53:46] doctrine yet. [53:47] Why? [53:48] That's not quite accurate. [53:49] I did give a speech [53:50] at Georgetown [53:51] where I talked about [53:53] democratic socialism [53:54] and foreign policy. [53:55] Maybe I shouldn't have [53:56] combined the two [53:57] in the same speech [53:58] because the foreign policy [54:00] part of it [54:00] didn't get much attention. [54:02] So let me take this [54:03] opportunity to give you [54:04] a very short speech here [54:05] on the issue. [54:07] I think while it is true [54:09] that the secretary [54:10] and I voted differently [54:11] on the war in Iraq, [54:12] what is important [54:13] is that we learn the lesson [54:15] of the war in Iraq [54:16] and that lesson is [54:18] intrinsic to my opinion [54:21] by foreign policy [54:21] if elected president [54:23] is the United States [54:24] cannot do it alone. [54:27] We cannot be [54:28] the policemen of the world. [54:30] We are now spending more [54:32] I believe [54:32] than the next eight countries [54:34] on defense. [54:36] We have got to work [54:37] in strong coalition [54:38] with the major powers [54:41] of the world [54:42] and with those Muslim countries [54:45] that are prepared [54:46] to stand up [54:46] and take on terrorism. [54:49] So I would say [54:49] that the key doctrine [54:51] of the Sanders administration [54:53] would be [54:54] no, we cannot continue [54:56] to do it alone. [54:57] We need to work [54:58] in coalition. [54:59] Secretary... [55:00] If I could just add, [55:01] yes, Frank. [55:01] You have 30 seconds, please. [55:03] A group of national security experts, [55:08] military, intelligence experts [55:10] issued a very concerning statement [55:13] about Senator Sanders' views [55:16] on foreign policy [55:17] and national security, [55:18] pointing out some of the comments [55:21] he has made on these issues, [55:22] such as inviting Iranian troops [55:24] into Syria [55:26] to try to resolve [55:27] the conflict there, [55:28] putting them right [55:29] on the doorstep of Israel, [55:31] asking Saudi Arabia [55:33] and Iran to work together [55:35] when they can't stand each other [55:37] and are engaged [55:39] in a proxy battle [55:40] right at this moment. [55:42] So I do think questions [55:43] have been raised [55:44] and questions have to be answered [55:45] because when New Hampshire voters [55:48] go on Tuesday [55:48] to cast your vote, [55:50] you are voting both [55:51] for a president [55:51] and a commander-in-chief. [55:53] And there is no way [55:54] to predict what comes [55:55] in the door of that White House [55:56] from day to day [55:58] that can pose a threat [55:59] to the United States [56:00] or one of our friends [56:01] and allies. [56:02] And I think this is [56:03] a big part of the job interview [56:04] that we are all conducting [56:06] with the voters here. [56:07] I fully, fully concede [56:15] that Secretary Clinton, [56:18] who was Secretary of State [56:19] for four years, [56:20] has more experience. [56:21] That is not arguable [56:23] in foreign affairs. [56:25] But experience [56:26] is not the only point. [56:29] Judgment is. [56:31] And once again, [56:32] back in 2002, [56:34] when we both looked [56:35] at the same evidence [56:36] about the wisdom [56:37] of the war in Iraq, [56:39] one of us voted [56:40] the right way [56:41] and one of us didn't. [56:43] In terms of Iran [56:45] and in terms of Saudi Arabia, [56:47] of course they hate each other. [56:48] That's no great secret. [56:50] But John Kerry, [56:51] who was I think [56:51] doing a very good job, [56:53] has tried to at least [56:54] get these people [56:55] in the room together [56:57] because both of them [56:58] are being threatened by ISIS. [57:00] Well, let me just add [57:01] that, you know, [57:03] I've said this before [57:04] and I'm very proud of it, [57:05] that when it comes to judgment, [57:06] having run a hard race [57:08] against Senator Obama [57:11] Obama at the time, [57:11] he turned to me [57:12] to be Secretary of State. [57:13] And when it comes [57:14] to the biggest [57:15] counterterrorism issues [57:16] that we faced [57:17] in this administration, [57:19] namely whether or not [57:20] to go after bin Laden, [57:21] I was at that table. [57:23] I was exercising my judgment [57:25] to advise the president [57:26] what to do on that, [57:28] on Iran, on Russia, [57:29] on China, [57:30] on a whole raft of issues. [57:32] Because I know [57:33] from my own experience [57:34] that you've got [57:35] to be ready on day one. [57:37] There is just too much [57:39] unpredictable threat [57:41] and danger in the world today, [57:42] you know, [57:43] to try to just say, [57:44] wait, I'll get to that [57:45] when I can. [57:47] That is just not [57:48] an acceptable approach. [57:49] Secretary Clinton, [57:50] at the last Democratic [57:51] debate in Charleston, [57:52] I want to get specific here. [57:53] Senator Sanders called [57:55] for moving as aggressively [57:56] as we can [57:57] to normalize relations [57:58] with Iran. [57:59] Your campaign [58:00] has criticized him [58:01] for saying that. [58:02] Now that he's standing [58:03] next to you here [58:03] on this stage, [58:05] can you explain [58:06] why the U.S. shouldn't [58:07] try to normalize relations [58:09] with Iran in your view? [58:10] Absolutely. [58:11] You know, [58:11] I did put together [58:12] the coalition [58:12] to impose sanctions. [58:14] I actually started [58:15] the negotiations [58:16] that led to the nuclear [58:17] agreement, [58:18] sending some of my [58:19] closest aides [58:20] to begin the conversations [58:21] with the Iranians. [58:22] I'm very pleased [58:24] we got that nuclear agreement. [58:26] It puts a lid [58:26] on the nuclear weapons [58:28] in this program. [58:29] We have to enforce it. [58:30] There have to be [58:31] consequences attached to it. [58:33] But that is not [58:33] our only problem [58:34] with Iran. [58:36] We have to figure out [58:37] how to deal with Iran [58:39] as the principal [58:41] state sponsor [58:42] of terrorism [58:42] in the world. [58:44] They are destabilizing [58:46] governments in the region. [58:48] They continue to support [58:50] Hezbollah and Hamas [58:52] in Lebanon [58:53] against Israel. [58:55] A lot of the work [58:56] that we have to do [58:57] is going to be [58:59] incredibly hard. [59:02] I'm prepared to do [59:03] that work. [59:03] But I believe, [59:04] just as I did [59:05] with imposing the sanctions, [59:07] you have to get [59:08] action for action. [59:09] If we were to [59:10] normalize relations [59:11] right now, [59:12] we would remove [59:13] one of the biggest pieces [59:14] of leverage we have [59:15] to try to influence [59:17] and change Iranian behavior. [59:19] The president [59:19] doesn't think we should. [59:20] I certainly don't think [59:21] we should. [59:22] I believe we have [59:23] to take this step-by-step [59:24] to try to rein in [59:26] Iranian aggression, [59:27] their support for terrorism, [59:29] and the other bad behavior [59:30] that can come back [59:32] and haunt us. [59:32] Who said [59:33] that I think [59:34] we should normalize [59:35] relations with Iran tomorrow? [59:36] I never said that. [59:37] I think we should move forward [59:39] as quickly as we can. [59:40] And you're right. [59:41] They are a sponsor [59:42] of terrorism [59:43] around the world. [59:45] And we have to address that. [59:46] But you know, [59:47] a number of years ago, [59:48] people were saying [59:49] normal relationship [59:50] with Cuba? [59:52] What a bad and silly idea. [59:53] They're communists. [59:54] They are our enemy. [59:55] Well, guess what? [59:56] Change has come. [59:58] So please don't suggest [59:59] that I think we normalize [1:00:00] relations with Iran tomorrow. [1:00:03] We don't. [1:00:03] But I would like to see us [1:00:05] move forward [1:00:06] and hopefully someday [1:00:07] that will happen. [1:00:08] And I would say, [1:00:09] if I might, [1:00:09] Madam Secretary, [1:00:10] and you can correct me [1:00:11] if I'm wrong, [1:00:12] when you ran against [1:00:13] Senator Obama, [1:00:14] you thought him naive, [1:00:17] naive because he thought [1:00:18] it was a good idea [1:00:19] to talk to our enemies. [1:00:21] I think those are exactly [1:00:22] the people you have to talk to [1:00:24] and you have to negotiate with. [1:00:26] Well, Senator, [1:00:26] let me just correct the record [1:00:27] if I can. [1:00:28] Let me correct. [1:00:31] I certainly recall [1:00:35] the question was [1:00:37] to meet with [1:00:39] without conditions. [1:00:40] And you're right. [1:00:41] I was against that. [1:00:43] I was against it then. [1:00:44] I would be against it now. [1:00:45] Okay. [1:00:46] Part of diplomacy, [1:00:47] the hard work of diplomacy [1:00:48] is trying to extract [1:00:50] whatever concessions [1:00:51] you can get [1:00:52] in giving something [1:00:53] the other side wants. [1:00:55] Of course, [1:00:55] you've got to [1:00:56] try to make peace with [1:00:58] and work with [1:00:59] those who are your adversaries, [1:01:00] but you don't just rush in, [1:01:02] open the door and say, [1:01:03] here I am, [1:01:03] let's talk and make a deal. [1:01:05] That's not the way it works. [1:01:06] I think President Obama [1:01:07] had the right idea. [1:01:08] And the bottom line is [1:01:10] that, of course, [1:01:11] there have to be conditions. [1:01:13] But, of course, [1:01:14] it doesn't do us any good [1:01:15] to not talk [1:01:17] with our adversaries. [1:01:20] Well, we set the conditions [1:01:21] on Iran. [1:01:22] We worked hard [1:01:22] to get them established [1:01:24] and to be enforced [1:01:26] and then we talked. [1:01:27] All right, let's talk about it. [1:01:27] That's exactly the right sequence. [1:01:28] And that's what I did [1:01:30] with the president. [1:01:30] So he and I [1:01:31] were on the very same page. [1:01:32] And just to set the record [1:01:34] straight, [1:01:34] I very strongly supported [1:01:38] the agreement, [1:01:39] which makes certain [1:01:40] that Iran does not get [1:01:43] a nuclear weapon. [1:01:44] All right, [1:01:44] as commander-in-chief, [1:01:45] Senator Sanders, [1:01:46] you've got to prioritize [1:01:47] potential threats [1:01:49] to the United States. [1:01:50] Three countries, [1:01:51] North Korea, Iran, Russia. [1:01:52] How would you rank them [1:01:53] in order of their threat [1:01:54] to America's security right now? [1:01:56] Starting with the biggest threat. [1:01:58] ISIS, you forgot one. [1:01:59] I understand that. [1:01:59] ISIS would be... [1:02:00] We've had that. [1:02:01] I'm talking about these three countries. [1:02:02] How would you orient... [1:02:03] How would you orient [1:02:05] our national security... [1:02:06] Our national defense posture? [1:02:07] Well, clearly, North Korea [1:02:08] is a very strange situation [1:02:10] because it is such an isolated country [1:02:13] run by a handful of dictators, [1:02:17] or maybe just one, [1:02:19] who seems to be somewhat paranoid [1:02:21] and who has nuclear weapons. [1:02:25] And our goal there, in my view, [1:02:28] is to work and lean strongly on China [1:02:30] to put as much pressure... [1:02:33] China is one of the few major [1:02:34] countries in the world [1:02:35] that has significant support [1:02:37] for North Korea. [1:02:39] And I think we've got to do [1:02:39] everything we can [1:02:40] to put pressure on China. [1:02:42] So I worry very much [1:02:43] about an isolated, paranoid country [1:02:47] with atomic bombs. [1:02:49] I think, clearly, [1:02:50] we have got to work closely [1:02:52] with China to resolve [1:02:53] the serious problems we have. [1:02:55] And I worry about Putin [1:02:56] and his military adventurism [1:02:58] and his military adventurism [1:02:58] in the Crimea and Ukraine. [1:03:03] Secretary of Defense Ash Carter [1:03:05] this week picked one of those three [1:03:06] and he said Russia was basically [1:03:08] the most important national security threat, [1:03:10] sort of reorienting the defense [1:03:12] and the challenges to that. [1:03:13] Do you agree with his decision? [1:03:14] No, I don't. [1:03:15] I worry very, very much [1:03:17] about an isolated country. [1:03:20] That's what makes me nervous. [1:03:22] Russia lives in the world. [1:03:23] China lives in the world. [1:03:25] North Korea is a very, very strange country [1:03:28] because it is so isolated. [1:03:29] And I do fear that a nation [1:03:31] with nuclear weapons, [1:03:35] they have got to be dealt with [1:03:36] and dealt with effectively. [1:03:38] Secretary Clinton, [1:03:39] what do you think of Secretary of Defense Ash Carter? [1:03:42] He's basically putting Russia [1:03:44] above Iran, above North Korea [1:03:45] as sort of the chief national security challenge right now. [1:03:48] Well, I haven't talked to [1:03:50] Secretary Carter, [1:03:52] but here's what I would think he's planning. [1:03:56] You know, we do have [1:03:57] the nuclear weapons agreement with Iran. [1:03:59] That's an enforcement, [1:04:00] consequence, action for action, follow on. [1:04:04] We have a plan. [1:04:05] We will watch them. [1:04:06] We will be vigilant. [1:04:07] We do have to worry about North Korea. [1:04:10] They continue to develop [1:04:11] their nuclear weapons capability [1:04:13] and they are working very hard [1:04:14] on their ballistic missile capability. [1:04:16] And I know that some of those plans [1:04:20] could very well lead to a missile [1:04:21] that might reach Hawaii, [1:04:23] if not the West Coast. [1:04:24] And we do have to try to get [1:04:26] the countries in the region [1:04:27] to work with us to do everything we can [1:04:30] to confine and constrain them. [1:04:32] But what Secretary Carter is looking at [1:04:34] is the constant pressure [1:04:37] that Russia is putting on our European allies. [1:04:41] The way that Russia is trying to move [1:04:43] the boundaries of the post-World War II Europe. [1:04:47] The way that he is trying to set European countries [1:04:50] against one another, [1:04:51] seizing territory, [1:04:52] holding it in Crimea, [1:04:54] beginning to explore whether they could make [1:04:57] some inroads in the Baltics. [1:04:59] We know that they are deeply engaged [1:05:02] in supporting Assad [1:05:03] because they want to have a place [1:05:07] in the Middle East. [1:05:08] They have a naval base. [1:05:10] They have an air base in Syria. [1:05:12] They want to hang on to that. [1:05:14] And I think what Secretary Carter is seeing, [1:05:16] and I'm glad he is, [1:05:18] is that we've got to get NATO back working [1:05:21] for the common defense. [1:05:22] We've got to do more to support [1:05:24] our partners in NATO. [1:05:26] And we have to send a very clear message to Putin [1:05:29] that this kind of belligerence, [1:05:32] this kind of testing of boundaries [1:05:33] will have to be responded to. [1:05:36] And the best way to do that [1:05:37] is put more armor in, [1:05:39] put more money from the Europeans in [1:05:41] so they're actually contributing more [1:05:43] to their own defense. [1:05:44] Thank you both. Rachel. [1:05:45] Secretary Clinton, [1:05:46] I want to ask you about a national security issue [1:05:47] that is closer to home. [1:05:49] There are thousands of veterans, [1:05:51] over 100,000 veterans living in the state of New Hampshire. [1:05:53] Either one of you is nominated [1:05:56] as the Democratic Party's nominee. [1:05:58] You will likely face a Republican opponent [1:05:59] in the general election [1:06:00] who wants to privatize or even abolish [1:06:03] big parts of the VA. [1:06:06] It's a newly popular idea in conservative politics. [1:06:09] How will you win the argument on that issue, [1:06:12] given the problems that have been exposed at the VA [1:06:14] in the last few years? [1:06:15] What's your argument that the VA should still exist [1:06:18] and should not be privatized? [1:06:19] Well, first of all, [1:06:20] I am absolutely against privatizing the VA. [1:06:23] And I am going to do everything I can [1:06:26] to build on the reforms [1:06:27] that Senator Sanders and others in Congress have passed [1:06:30] to try to fix what's wrong with the VA. [1:06:33] There are a lot of issues about wait times [1:06:37] and services that have to be fixed [1:06:39] because our veterans deserve nothing but the best. [1:06:43] But you're absolutely right. [1:06:44] You know, Rachel, [1:06:45] this is another part of the Koch brothers' agenda. [1:06:49] They've actually formed an organization [1:06:51] to try to begin to convince Americans [1:06:53] we should no longer have guaranteed health care, [1:06:57] specialized care for our veterans. [1:06:59] I will fight that as hard as I can. [1:07:02] I think there's where we can enlist [1:07:04] the veteran service organizations, [1:07:06] the veterans of America, [1:07:07] because yes, let's fix the VA, [1:07:09] but we will never let it be privatized. [1:07:11] And that is a promise. [1:07:13] Senator Sanders, [1:07:16] you as a congressional leader [1:07:18] on veterans' issues and the veterans' committee, [1:07:20] you've worked in a very bipartisan way [1:07:22] with Senator John McCain and others on veterans' issues. [1:07:24] Is that the right contour of the fight? [1:07:27] The way she's talking about this issue? [1:07:28] Well, let me agree. You know, [1:07:28] as the secretary knows, [1:07:30] I chaired, I had the privilege and the honor [1:07:32] of chairing the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs. [1:07:37] And it is interesting to me, [1:07:39] you know, Republicans give a lot of speeches [1:07:41] about how much they love veterans. [1:07:43] I work with the American Legion, [1:07:46] the VFW, the DAV, the Vietnam Vets, [1:07:48] and virtually every veteran's organization [1:07:50] to put together the most comprehensive piece [1:07:53] of veterans legislation in the modern history of America. [1:07:56] That's what I did. [1:07:57] And I brought it to the floor of the Senate. [1:07:59] Every Democratic voted for it. [1:08:01] Every Democratic voted for it. [1:08:04] I got two Republicans. [1:08:06] We ended up with 56 votes, [1:08:08] and I couldn't get the 60 votes that I needed. [1:08:11] That is pathetic. [1:08:12] This was legislation supported [1:08:14] by all of the veterans' organizations [1:08:16] addressing many of the serious problems [1:08:18] that veterans face in health care [1:08:20] and in how we deliver benefits to them. [1:08:22] So Republicans talk a good game about veterans, [1:08:26] but when it came to put money on the line [1:08:29] to protect our veterans, frankly, they were not there. [1:08:32] What I did next, Rachel, [1:08:34] is I had to retreat a little bit. [1:08:35] I had to compromise. [1:08:37] I did work with John McCain. [1:08:38] I did work with Jeff Miller over in the House. [1:08:40] And we put together not the bill that I wanted, [1:08:43] but probably the most comprehensive VA health care bill [1:08:46] in the modern history of this country. [1:08:49] Secretary Clinton is absolutely right. [1:08:51] There are people, Koch brothers among others, [1:08:54] who have a group called Concerned Veterans of America, [1:08:57] funded by the Koch brothers. [1:08:58] Koch brothers, by the way, [1:08:59] who want to destroy Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, [1:09:03] every governmental program passed since the 1930s. [1:09:07] Yeah, there are people out there who want to privatize it. [1:09:09] Last point that I'd make. [1:09:10] I had a hearing. [1:09:11] I had all of the veterans groups in front of me. [1:09:14] And I said to them, [1:09:15] tell me, when a veteran gets into the VA, [1:09:19] understanding there are waiting lines and real problems. [1:09:22] When a veteran gets into the system, [1:09:24] is the quality of care good without exception? [1:09:27] What they said, good, excellent, very good. [1:09:30] We've got to strengthen the VA. [1:09:32] We do not privatize the VA. [1:09:34] Senator Sanders, Secretary Clinton, [1:09:36] we're going to take another break. [1:09:37] We've been talking about Social Security [1:09:38] and some of those other issues. [1:09:39] We're going to get into a little bit of election politics, [1:09:50] electability a little bit. [1:09:51] Senator Sanders, [1:09:53] the Iowa Democratic Party has declared Hillary Clinton [1:09:55] the winner of Monday's Iowa caucuses, [1:09:57] narrowest of margins. [1:09:58] Today, the Des Moines Register has an editorial [1:10:01] that calls for an audit of the results saying, [1:10:03] quote, [1:10:03] what happened Monday night at the Democratic caucuses [1:10:05] was a debacle, period. [1:10:08] The results were too close not to do a complete audit. [1:10:10] Senator Sanders, [1:10:11] do you accept the idea that Hillary Clinton won Iowa? [1:10:15] And do you, or do you believe the caucuses are still an open question? [1:10:20] Well, I agree with the Des Moines Register, [1:10:21] but let's not blow this out of proportion. [1:10:23] This is not a, this is not like a winner-take-all thing. [1:10:27] I think where we now stand, [1:10:29] correct me if I'm wrong, [1:10:30] you have 22 delegates, [1:10:31] I have 20 delegates. [1:10:33] We need 2,500 delegates to win the nomination. [1:10:37] You know, [1:10:37] so this is not, [1:10:38] this is not the biggest deal in the world. [1:10:41] We think, by the way, [1:10:42] based on talking to our precinct captains, [1:10:45] we may have at least two more delegates. [1:10:48] What the Des Moines Register said, [1:10:49] you know, [1:10:50] there were coin flicks, [1:10:50] I think there were half a dozen coin flicks, [1:10:52] a fairly chaotic type of situation. [1:10:55] At the end of the day, [1:10:57] no matter how it's recounted, [1:10:58] it will break roughly even. [1:11:00] And by the way, [1:11:01] I love and respect the caucus process in Iowa. [1:11:06] See, and I don't have to say it [1:11:07] because they voted already. [1:11:10] And I love New Hampshire too, [1:11:12] because you haven't voted. [1:11:13] But look, [1:11:15] I think people are blowing this up out of proportion, [1:11:17] but I think we need improvements [1:11:18] in the process by which results are determined. [1:11:22] Secretary Clinton, [1:11:22] will you participate in some sort of audit [1:11:24] if that's what the party wants to do? [1:11:25] You good with that? [1:11:26] Whatever they decide to do, [1:11:28] that's fine. [1:11:29] Fair enough. [1:11:30] Okay. [1:11:31] All right. [1:11:31] Good. [1:11:31] We move on. [1:11:32] We're happy with that. [1:11:33] We have more questions. [1:11:34] Senator Sanders, [1:11:35] in 1964... [1:11:37] Oh, word. [1:11:39] See, when you are old, [1:11:42] then they go back all these years. [1:11:43] All right. [1:11:44] What do you got? [1:11:44] In 1964, [1:11:45] I heard that the Republicans nominated Barry Goldwater, [1:11:49] who was the hero of the conservative movement. [1:11:51] He was, however, [1:11:52] far to the right of most of that party. [1:11:55] In 1972, [1:11:57] the Democrats nominated George McGovern, [1:11:59] who was a hero of liberals in the anti-war movement, [1:12:01] but he was to the left of his party's mainstream. [1:12:05] Both of those nominees made activists very excited, [1:12:09] and they both got destroyed in the general election. [1:12:13] Right. [1:12:14] Even Democrats who love you worry about your fate in a general election. [1:12:18] And I know you have good head-to-head polling numbers [1:12:21] against Republican frontrunners right now. [1:12:23] We know that. [1:12:24] But do you have a general election strategy [1:12:26] that is different than the way you're running right now [1:12:29] to try to get the nomination? [1:12:31] Well, you know, [1:12:31] a general election is different than a primary and caucus process. [1:12:36] But let me just say this. [1:12:37] In terms of where we are right now, [1:12:40] as you've mentioned, Rachel, [1:12:41] in a number of national and state, including New Hampshire. [1:12:45] For example, the last poll I saw, [1:12:47] there may have been a newer one. [1:12:49] Last one I saw here in New Hampshire, [1:12:51] a battleground state had me defeating Trump by 19, [1:12:54] the secretary defeating him by one. [1:12:57] There were also pretty large margins in Iowa and Wisconsin. [1:13:01] These are polls. [1:13:02] Polls go up, polls go down. [1:13:03] But here's why I think I will be, if nominated, [1:13:06] the strongest candidate. [1:13:08] Democrats win when there is a large voter turnout, [1:13:13] when people are excited, when working people, [1:13:16] middle-class people, and young people [1:13:18] are prepared to engage in the political process. [1:13:22] Republicans win when people are demoralized [1:13:25] and you have a small voter turnout, [1:13:27] which, by the way, is why they love voter suppression. [1:13:30] I believe that our campaign up to now has shown [1:13:34] that we can create an enormous amount of enthusiasm [1:13:38] from working people, from young people, [1:13:40] who will get involved in the political process [1:13:44] and which will drive us to a very large voter turnout. [1:13:47] If there is a large voter turnout, [1:13:50] not only do we retain the White House, [1:13:52] but I think we regain the Senate, [1:13:55] we win governor's chairs up and down the line. [1:13:58] So I believe if you want to retain the White House, [1:14:02] if you want to see Democrats do well across the board, [1:14:06] I think our campaign is the one that creates [1:14:09] the large voter turnout and helps us win. [1:14:12] Secretary Clinton, your campaign and surrogates [1:14:15] and people who have missed you suggested that, [1:14:20] or even said that if Senator Sanders is the nominee, [1:14:23] that Democrats will suffer nationwide [1:14:25] and the chances will go down of Democrats [1:14:27] holding onto the White House. [1:14:28] With him here standing next to you, [1:14:30] can you tell us whether or not you believe [1:14:32] he would win the general election if he were nominated? [1:14:36] I can only tell you what I believe, [1:14:39] and that is that I am the strongest candidate [1:14:41] to take it to the Republicans and win in November [1:14:45] with great respect for the campaign [1:14:51] that Senator Sanders has been running. [1:14:53] I personally am thrilled at the numbers of people, [1:14:56] and particularly young people, [1:14:58] who are coming to support your campaign. [1:15:01] I hope that I will be able to earn their support. [1:15:04] They may not support me now, but I support them, [1:15:07] and we'll work together. [1:15:08] But what I'm concerned about is the views of many Democrats [1:15:13] who know their states, who know how hard it is [1:15:17] to win a general election. [1:15:20] And it also will put whoever the nominee is [1:15:24] into the spotlight. [1:15:25] I've been vetted. [1:15:27] There's hardly anything you don't know about me. [1:15:29] And I think it's fair to say [1:15:32] that whoever is in that position, [1:15:34] Senator Sanders or anyone else who might have run, [1:15:37] will face the most withering onslaught. [1:15:41] So I think that I am the person [1:15:44] who can do all aspects of the job. [1:15:46] I think I'm the person best prepared [1:15:49] to take the case to the Republicans. [1:15:52] And I think that at the end of the day, [1:15:55] it's not so much electability. [1:15:57] It is who the American people can believe, [1:16:02] can keep them safe, [1:16:04] can get the economy moving again, [1:16:07] can get incomes rising, [1:16:09] can build on the progressive accomplishments [1:16:11] of President Obama. [1:16:13] And I think that the coalition [1:16:15] that President Obama put together to win twice [1:16:19] is a coalition that I can put together and add to. [1:16:22] And that's what I'm prepared for. [1:16:23] Thank you both. [1:16:24] I want to, we're going to keep on, [1:16:25] we're staying on this issue. [1:16:26] We're staying on this topic. [1:16:28] Secretary Clinton, [1:16:30] just like there are some Democrats [1:16:31] that question Senator Sanders' ability [1:16:33] in the general election, [1:16:34] many Democratic voters [1:16:36] that our reporters have been running into [1:16:37] in Iowa and New Hampshire, [1:16:39] they tell our reporters over and over again, [1:16:41] they're worried about the emails issue, [1:16:42] not because they don't believe your explanation, [1:16:45] but because it's a drip drip, [1:16:47] because the cloud is hanging over your head [1:16:50] and that it will impact the general election. [1:16:52] They see your numbers right now [1:16:54] and they think it's the email issue [1:16:56] as to why you're not polling very well. [1:16:59] So can you reassure these Democrats [1:17:01] that somehow the email issue [1:17:03] isn't going to blow up your candidacy [1:17:05] if you're the nominee? [1:17:06] Absolutely I can. [1:17:07] You know, before it was emails, it was Benghazi. [1:17:10] And the Republicans were stirring up [1:17:13] so much controversy about that. [1:17:16] And I testified for 11 hours, answered their questions. [1:17:19] They basically said, yep, didn't get her, we tried. [1:17:23] That was all a political ploy. [1:17:25] Now we had a development in the email matter today [1:17:28] when it came out that Secretary Powell [1:17:31] and close aides to former Secretary Rice [1:17:35] used private email accounts. [1:17:37] And now you have these people in the government [1:17:41] who are doing the same thing to Secretary Powell [1:17:43] and Secretary Rice's aides they've been doing to me, [1:17:46] which is that I never sent or received [1:17:49] any classified material. [1:17:51] They are retroactively classifying it. [1:17:54] I agree completely with Secretary Powell [1:17:56] who said today, this is an absurdity. [1:17:59] And so I think the American people will know [1:18:01] it's an absurdity. [1:18:02] I have absolutely no concerns about it whatsoever. [1:18:07] All right, Madam Secretary, though, there is an open, [1:18:11] there is an open FBI investigation into this matter [1:18:16] about how you may have handled classified material. [1:18:19] Are you 100% confident that nothing is going to come [1:18:23] of this FBI investigation? [1:18:25] I am 100% confident. [1:18:26] This is a security review that was requested. [1:18:30] It is being carried out. [1:18:31] It will be resolved. [1:18:33] But I have to add, if there's going to be a security review about me, [1:18:37] there's going to have to be security reviews [1:18:38] about a lot of other people, [1:18:40] including Republican office holders, [1:18:42] because we've got this absurd situation [1:18:46] of retroactive classifications, honest to goodness. [1:18:49] This is, this just beggars the imagination. [1:18:52] So I have absolutely no concerns about it, [1:18:55] but we've got to get to the bottom [1:18:57] of what's really going on here. [1:18:59] And I hope that will happen. [1:19:01] Well, Senator Sanders, you famously, [1:19:03] at the first debate, said you didn't give a darn [1:19:06] about her emails. [1:19:07] I think you used another quote. [1:19:09] You're right. [1:19:09] I'm trying to, it's a family hour. [1:19:11] It's a family hour still right now. [1:19:13] After 11 o'clock, I'll say it the other way. [1:19:15] And you mostly have refrained from commenting on it. [1:19:17] But recently, you called it a very serious issue. [1:19:20] And then the other day, you said, well, [1:19:21] she's getting slapped with the email controversy. [1:19:25] Are you, how are you feeling about these darn emails now? [1:19:28] I am feeling exactly the way I felt at the first debate. [1:19:31] There's a process on the way. [1:19:33] I will not politicize it. [1:19:35] OK. [1:19:36] Senator Sanders. [1:19:37] Senator, thank you. [1:19:41] And by the way, and by the way, if I may, [1:19:45] the secretary probably doesn't know [1:19:47] that there's not a day that goes by [1:19:50] when I am not asked to attack her on that issue. [1:19:53] And I have refrained from doing that. [1:19:54] And I will continue to refrain from doing that. [1:19:57] Senator Sanders, thank you. [1:20:02] In December, one of your campaign staffers [1:20:04] was fired from your campaign for taking voter data, [1:20:08] essentially, from the Clinton campaign. [1:20:10] You apologized for that when the incident was made public. [1:20:13] Your campaign has now been criticized for its operatives, [1:20:16] essentially, impersonating culinary union members, [1:20:20] wearing union pins in Nevada. [1:20:23] And the Nashua Telegraph has complained recently [1:20:25] that you falsely implied in an advertisement [1:20:29] that they had endorsed you when they did not. [1:20:31] None of these issues, obviously, is the end of the world, [1:20:34] but they all are of a piece. [1:20:36] Are you, in some sense, losing control of your campaign? [1:20:40] Not losing control of our campaign. [1:20:42] You know, we have hired a whole lot of people in a rapid way, [1:20:46] and I am familiar with the first two instances, [1:20:48] and they are unacceptable. [1:20:50] And we have apologized and dealt with that. [1:20:52] In terms of the last one, as I understand it, [1:20:57] we did not suggest that we had the endorsement of a newspaper. [1:21:02] Newspapers who make endorsements also say positive things [1:21:06] about other candidates. [1:21:08] And to the best of my knowledge, that is what we did. [1:21:10] So we never said, never said, [1:21:13] that somebody, a newspaper, endorsed us that did not. [1:21:16] What we did say is, blah, blah, blah, blah, was said by the newspaper. [1:21:20] Just to follow up on that, [1:21:21] the title of the ad in question was endorsement. [1:21:24] But that was only for, that was not to be on television. [1:21:28] That's an important point. [1:21:29] That was just something, as the secretary knows, [1:21:32] you put titles on ads and you send them out. [1:21:35] But there was no word in that ad, none, [1:21:37] that said that those newspapers had endorsed us. [1:21:40] Secretary Clinton, do you want 30 seconds on this issue? [1:21:43] No. [1:22:09] All right. And with that, candidate's debate. [1:22:10] Secretary Clinton, on the issue of the death penalty. [1:22:12] Here in New Hampshire, the one person who is on death row [1:22:16] is there for killing a police officer. [1:22:18] It's a crime that has caused anguish in this state, [1:22:21] both among death penalty opponents and death penalty supporters. [1:22:25] The last time I had the chance to talk with you on this issue, [1:22:28] on the death penalty, you said that capital punishment has a place [1:22:32] in a very few federal cases. [1:22:33] But you also said you would breathe a sigh of relief [1:22:36] if the Supreme Court abolished the death penalty nationwide. [1:22:41] Tonight, do you still support capital punishment, [1:22:44] even if you do so reluctantly? [1:22:46] Yes, I do. [1:22:47] And, you know, what I hope the Supreme Court will do, [1:22:53] is make it absolutely clear that any state [1:22:57] that continues capital punishment [1:23:01] either must meet the highest standards of evidentiary proof [1:23:05] of effective assistance of counsel, [1:23:08] or they cannot continue it. [1:23:10] Because that, to me, is the real dividing line. [1:23:13] I have much more confidence in the federal system, [1:23:18] and I do reserve it for particularly heinous crimes [1:23:22] in the federal system, like terrorism. [1:23:24] I have strong feelings about that. [1:23:26] I thought it was appropriate after a very thorough trial [1:23:31] that Timothy McVeigh received the death penalty [1:23:35] for blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma City, [1:23:38] killing 168 people, including 19 children in a daycare center. [1:23:43] So I do, for very limited, particularly heinous crimes, [1:23:49] believe it is an appropriate punishment. [1:23:52] But I deeply disagree with the way [1:23:56] that too many states still are implementing it. [1:23:59] So if it were possible to separate out the federal [1:24:02] from the state system by the Supreme Court, [1:24:05] that would, I think, be an appropriate outcome. [1:24:07] Senator Sanders, you have singled out the death penalty, [1:24:10] and Senator Clinton's support for the death penalty [1:24:13] as an issue that makes it hard [1:24:14] to consider her a progressive in your mind. [1:24:17] But, look, I hear what the secretary said, [1:24:19] and I understand, but look, there are, [1:24:22] all of us know that we have seen in recent years [1:24:26] horrible, horrible, horrible crimes. [1:24:28] And it's hard to imagine how people can do, bomb, [1:24:32] and kill 168 people in Oklahoma City, [1:24:34] or do the Boston Marathon bombing. [1:24:37] But this is what I believe, and for a couple of reasons. [1:24:40] Number one, too many innocent people, including minorities, [1:24:46] African-Americans, have been executed when they were not guilty. [1:24:51] That's number one. [1:24:52] So we have to be very careful about making sure about that. [1:24:57] But second of all, and maybe in a deeper reason, [1:25:00] of course, there are barbaric acts out there. [1:25:02] But in a world of so much violence and killing, [1:25:06] I just don't believe that government itself [1:25:09] should be part of the killing. [1:25:12] So when somebody commits, when somebody commits [1:25:18] any of these terrible crimes that we have seen, [1:25:21] you lock them up, and you toss away the key. [1:25:24] They are never going to get out. [1:25:25] But I just don't want to see government be part of killing. [1:25:28] That's all. [1:25:32] That's all related to the proper role of government, [1:25:33] and in this case, specifically the role of government [1:25:36] between the federal government and the states. [1:25:38] I want to talk for a moment about the issue of Flint, Michigan. [1:25:41] On the Flint lead poisoning disaster, [1:25:43] you have both been highly critical of Governor Rick Snyder [1:25:46] of Michigan, and how the state in Michigan [1:25:49] both caused the lead poisoning problem, [1:25:51] and has not acted fast enough to fix it. [1:25:53] You have both been outspoken on that. [1:25:55] The fact is, Michigan, though, has not fixed it. [1:25:58] There is no door-to-door delivery of clean water in Flint even today. [1:26:02] Not a single lead pipe has been replaced in Flint even today. [1:26:06] If the state is failing, would you, Secretary Clinton, [1:26:11] would you as president order a federal response [1:26:14] to get it right over and above the wishes of the state? [1:26:16] Absolutely. Absolutely. [1:26:18] You know, Rachel, you and I have talked about this before. [1:26:21] I thank you for going to Flint to hold that town hall. [1:26:24] I will be in Flint at the mayor's invitation on Sunday [1:26:27] to get an in-depth briefing about what is and is not happening. [1:26:32] This is an emergency. [1:26:34] Every day that goes by that these people, [1:26:37] particularly the children, are not tested, [1:26:40] so we can know what steps must be taken [1:26:42] to try to remediate the effects of the poisoning [1:26:45] that they have been living with, [1:26:48] is a day lost in a child's life. [1:26:51] And I know from the work that I've done over so many years, [1:26:55] lead, the toxic nature of lead, [1:26:58] can affect your brain development, [1:27:00] your body development, your behavior. [1:27:03] So I absolutely believe that what is being done [1:27:07] is not sufficient. [1:27:09] We need to be absolutely clear [1:27:10] about everything that should be done, [1:27:12] from today to tomorrow, into the future, [1:27:15] to try to remedy the terrible burden [1:27:20] that the people of Flint are bearing. [1:27:22] And that includes fixing their pipes. [1:27:24] It includes guaranteeing whatever healthcare [1:27:27] and educational embellishments they may need going forward. [1:27:32] And I think the federal government has ways [1:27:35] where it can build the state of Michigan. [1:27:37] If Michigan won't do it, there have to be ways [1:27:40] that we can begin to move and then make them pay for it [1:27:43] and hold them accountable. [1:27:44] Senator Sanders could be doing it. [1:27:49] President Obama could be ordering done right now [1:27:52] in Flint, Michigan, that are not being done [1:27:53] that U.S. President would do. [1:27:54] Absolutely. [1:27:56] I mean, I think the secretary described [1:27:58] the situation appropriately. [1:28:01] You know, I don't go around asking [1:28:03] for governor's resignations every day. [1:28:06] In fact, I think I never have in my life. [1:28:09] But I did ask for the resignation of Governor Snyder, [1:28:12] because his irresponsibility was so outrageous. [1:28:17] What we are talking about are children being poisoned. [1:28:22] That's what we're talking about. [1:28:24] We don't know. [1:28:25] No one knows for sure, [1:28:26] because they haven't even done the appropriate studies. [1:28:28] But there's no question that kids' intellectual development [1:28:32] may have been impacted. [1:28:34] We don't know how many thousands. [1:28:36] The idea that there has not been a dramatic response [1:28:40] is beyond comprehension. [1:28:42] And when you have one of the, I think, [1:28:45] significant public health crises of recent years, [1:28:49] of course the federal government comes in. [1:28:51] And of course the federal government says, [1:28:53] you're not going to be poisoning little kids [1:28:56] and impacting their entire lives. [1:28:58] Last point on this, and I suspect the secretary agrees, [1:29:02] one wonders if this were a white suburban community, [1:29:07] what kind of response there would have been. [1:29:13] Flint, Michigan, Flint, Michigan is a poor community. [1:29:17] It is disproportionately African-American and minority. [1:29:22] And what has happened there is absolutely unacceptable. [1:29:26] All right. Thank you. [1:29:28] Secretary Clinton, let me turn to the issue of trade. [1:29:29] In the 90s, you supported NAFTA, [1:29:31] but you opposed it when you ran for president in 2008. [1:29:34] As secretary of state, you supported TPP, [1:29:38] and then, which of course is that trade agreement [1:29:40] with a lot of Asian countries. [1:29:41] But you now oppose it as you make your second bid for president. [1:29:44] If elected, should Democrats expect that once you're in office, [1:29:47] you will then become supportive of these trade agreements again? [1:29:51] You know, Chuck, I've only had responsibility [1:29:54] for voting for trade agreements as a senator. [1:29:58] And I voted against a multinational trade agreement [1:30:01] when I was a senator, the CAFTA agreement, [1:30:04] because I did not believe it was in the best interests [1:30:07] of the workers of America, of our incomes, and I opposed it. [1:30:14] I did hope that the TPP negotiated by this administration [1:30:18] would put to rest a lot of the concerns [1:30:21] that many people have expressed about trade agreements. [1:30:24] And I said that I was holding out that hope [1:30:27] that it would be the kind of trade agreement [1:30:29] that I was looking for. [1:30:30] I waited until it had actually been negotiated, [1:30:33] because I did want to give the benefit of the doubt [1:30:36] to the administration. [1:30:37] Once I saw what the outcome was, I opposed it. [1:30:42] Now, I have a very clear view about this. [1:30:45] We have to trade with the rest of the world. [1:30:47] We are 5% of the world's population. [1:30:49] We have to trade with the other 95%. [1:30:52] And trade has to be reciprocal. [1:30:54] That's the way the global economy works. [1:30:56] But we have failed to provide the basic safety net support [1:31:01] that American workers need in order to be able to compete [1:31:05] and win in the global economy. [1:31:07] So it's not just what's in the trade agreement [1:31:09] that I'm interested in. [1:31:11] I did help to renegotiate the trade agreement [1:31:13] that we inherited from President Bush with Korea. [1:31:17] We got the UAW on board because of changes we made. [1:31:21] So there are changes that I believe would make a real difference [1:31:26] if they could be achieved. [1:31:28] But I do not currently support it as it is written. [1:31:31] Well, Senator Sanders, I know you want to respond on this. [1:31:33] You have never supported a trade deal since you've been in Congress. [1:31:37] Absolutely right. [1:31:38] But if you do that as president, [1:31:40] if you do that as president, [1:31:42] how are you not essentially letting China, [1:31:45] who will do all of these deals around the world, [1:31:48] how are you going to prevent China [1:31:50] from essentially setting the rules of trade for the world? [1:31:53] Chuck, I believe in trade. [1:31:56] But I do not believe in unfettered free trade. [1:31:59] I believe in fair trade, [1:32:01] which works for the middle class [1:32:02] and working families of this country [1:32:04] and not just large multinational corporations. [1:32:09] I was not only in opposition to NAFTA, [1:32:11] and this is an area where the secretary and I have disagreements. [1:32:15] I was not only in opposition to NAFTA, [1:32:17] I was on the picket line in opposition to NAFTA. [1:32:21] Because I understood, [1:32:24] I don't think this is really rocket science. [1:32:26] We heard all of the people tell us [1:32:28] how many great jobs would be created. [1:32:30] I didn't believe that for a second. [1:32:33] Because I understood what the function of NAFTA, [1:32:35] CAFTA, PNTR with China and the TPP is, [1:32:39] is to say to American workers, [1:32:41] hey, you are now competing against people in Vietnam [1:32:45] who make 56 cents an hour minimum wage. [1:32:50] I don't want American workers to compete against people [1:32:53] making 56 cents an hour. [1:32:55] I don't want companies shutting down in America, [1:32:58] throwing people out on the street, [1:33:00] moving to China, [1:33:01] and bringing their products back into this country. [1:33:03] So, do I believe in trade? [1:33:05] Of course I believe in trade. [1:33:06] But the current trade agreements over the last 30 years [1:33:10] were written by corporate America, [1:33:12] for corporate America, [1:33:13] resulted in the loss of millions of decent paying jobs, [1:33:17] 60,000 factories in America lost since 2001, [1:33:21] millions of decent paying jobs, [1:33:23] and also a downward spiral, [1:33:26] a race to the bottom, [1:33:27] where employers say, hey, you don't want to take a cut in pay? [1:33:31] We're going to China. [1:33:32] Workers today are working longer hours for lower wages. [1:33:35] Trade is one of the reasons for that. [1:33:37] All right. [1:33:38] Thank you both. [1:33:40] We're going to sneak in one more break here, [1:33:44] trying to squeeze in as many questions as we can [1:33:46] before we end this thing. [1:33:47] We'll be right back. [1:33:48] Home stretch. [1:34:01] Home stretch of this only Democratic debate [1:34:04] in the final week before the primary. [1:34:06] Let me start with you, Secretary Clinton, on this question. [1:34:09] Obviously, President Obama got a lot of ambitious stuff done [1:34:11] in his first year and a half. [1:34:13] You're going to have to make choices, [1:34:15] and there's a lot of heavy lifts, and he made choices. [1:34:18] He did health care, and it came at the expense, [1:34:20] arguably, of immigration reform. [1:34:21] Had he put immigration reform first, [1:34:22] perhaps that gets done, and health care doesn't. [1:34:25] So there's three big lifts that you've talked about. [1:34:27] Immigration, gun reform, climate change. [1:34:31] What do you do first? [1:34:33] Because you know the first one is the one [1:34:35] you have the best shot at getting done. [1:34:38] Well, I don't accept that premise, Chuck. [1:34:40] I think that we've got so much business we have to do. [1:34:43] We've talked a lot tonight about what we're against. [1:34:46] We're against income inequality. [1:34:48] We're against the abuses of powerful interests. [1:34:50] We're against a lot of things. [1:34:51] I'm for a lot of things. [1:34:52] I don't want to just stop bad things from happening. [1:34:55] I want to start good things from happening, [1:34:57] and I believe if I'm so fortunate as to get the nomination, [1:35:01] I will begin to work immediately on putting together an agenda, [1:35:04] beginning to talk with members of Congress and others [1:35:08] about how we can push forward. [1:35:10] I want to have half a billion more solar panels deployed [1:35:14] the first four years. [1:35:15] I want to have enough clean energy to power every home [1:35:18] the next four years. [1:35:20] I want us to keep working on the Affordable Care Act [1:35:22] to get not only to 100% coverage, [1:35:25] but bring down the cost of prescription drugs [1:35:27] and out-of-pocket costs. [1:35:29] I want to move forward on paid family leave, [1:35:31] on early childhood education. [1:35:33] I want us to do more for small businesses. [1:35:36] Small businesses have to create most of the jobs, [1:35:38] and we're not creating and growing small businesses. [1:35:41] I think if you have a smart agenda, you pick the committees [1:35:45] that you know have to begin to work on these various pieces, [1:35:49] because that's the way Congress is set up. [1:35:51] You go through different committees, [1:35:53] and you really make a big push in the beginning. [1:35:56] Immigration reform, economic revitalization with manufacturing, [1:36:01] infrastructure, we put it out there, [1:36:04] and we begin to work on an ambitious, big, bold agenda [1:36:07] that will actually produce the results [1:36:09] that I want to see for our country. [1:36:11] All right, but Senator Sanders, [1:36:12] you still got to do something first. [1:36:14] As you know, history shows what you pick first [1:36:20] is your best shot at getting it. [1:36:21] How you prioritize things, immigration reform, [1:36:24] for instance, fell by the wayside in the first term [1:36:26] because of this. [1:36:27] I am absolutely supportive of comprehensive immigration reform [1:36:31] and a path toward citizenship for 11 million people today [1:36:34] who are living in the shadows. [1:36:36] All right, we got to do that. [1:36:38] But you missed, when you looked at the issues, [1:36:42] you missed two of the most important, [1:36:45] and that is you're not going to accomplish [1:36:47] what has to be done for working families and the middle class [1:36:51] unless there is campaign finance reform. [1:36:56] If the law interests control the United States Congress, [1:37:02] it is going to be very hard to do what has to be done [1:37:05] for working families. [1:37:06] So let me be very clear. [1:37:08] No nominee of mine, if I am elected president, [1:37:11] to the United States Supreme Court will get that nomination [1:37:15] unless he or she is loud and clear and says [1:37:19] they will vote to overturn Citizens United. [1:37:23] The second point is that the only way we make change [1:37:31] in terms of health care, in terms of dealing [1:37:35] with a broken criminal justice system, [1:37:38] which today allows us to have more people in jail [1:37:41] than any other country, largely African-American and Latino, [1:37:45] the only way we create millions of jobs [1:37:49] by rebuilding our infrastructure or have a tax system [1:37:52] that says to the wealthy that they are going to pay [1:37:55] their fair share is when millions of people [1:37:58] become involved in the political process. [1:38:01] No, you just can't negotiate with Mitch McConnell. [1:38:04] Mitch is going to have to look out the window [1:38:06] and see a whole lot of people saying, [1:38:08] Mitch, stop representing the billionaire class. [1:38:11] Start listening to working families. [1:38:13] And as president, that's what I will work hard on. [1:38:16] Okay? Thank you. Rachel? [1:38:17] Secretary Clinton, Republicans, particularly in campaign years, [1:38:24] often talk about which departments of government, [1:38:26] which agencies of government they would get rid of [1:38:29] if they were elected president. [1:38:30] The EPA, the Department of Education, [1:38:32] the Commerce Department, Oops. [1:38:34] Is there a department of government that you would get rid of? [1:38:40] Or is there a whole new one that you would create? [1:38:42] The answer to both of those is no. [1:38:45] I'm interested in making what we have work better. [1:38:48] I want to streamline programs that are duplicative [1:38:52] and redundant. [1:38:53] I want to have a top to bottom review [1:38:56] about what works and what doesn't work [1:38:57] and be absolutely clear. [1:38:59] We're getting rid of what doesn't work. [1:39:01] I have had the opportunity to run a big agency. [1:39:05] I was very flattered when Henry Kissinger said, [1:39:08] I ran the state department better than anybody had run it in a long time. [1:39:12] So I have an idea about what it's going to take [1:39:15] to make our government work more efficiently. [1:39:18] And when you put together a budget, [1:39:20] you have to make a lot of hard decisions. [1:39:22] But I think it's not appropriate to say, [1:39:25] I'm going to get rid of this, get rid of that, [1:39:27] until you have a very good process that gives you [1:39:30] the information about what to do. [1:39:32] But I want to add something else, you know, [1:39:34] because, look, we have so much work to do in our country, [1:39:39] and I think it's the greatest work that Americans will be called to do. [1:39:45] And, of course, we have to have people in every community involved in it. [1:39:49] We have to have the political voice, [1:39:51] the political grassroots speaking up and speaking out [1:39:54] about what we have to try to accomplish in Washington. [1:39:57] But we also need to have a very clear set of goals [1:40:01] that we are going to achieve, [1:40:03] and we need to level with the American people [1:40:05] about what they are, what they will cost, [1:40:08] what will be expected of our citizenry. [1:40:11] So I see, as president, having a constant dialogue with Americans. [1:40:17] Here's what we're trying to get done. [1:40:18] Here's why I need your help. [1:40:20] Here's why you may think comprehensive immigration reform [1:40:23] with a path to citizenship isn't something you care about. [1:40:26] But I'm telling you, it will help fix the labor market. [1:40:28] It will bring people out of the shadows. [1:40:30] It will actually raise wages. [1:40:31] You have to make all those connections [1:40:33] so that you've got people with you every step of the way. [1:40:37] That's what I want to do. Thank you. [1:40:39] All right, before we go, we want to ask each one of these. [1:40:46] Secretary Clinton, you've made it clear [1:40:48] that when you look at Senator Sanders, [1:40:49] you do not see a president. [1:40:51] I've never said that. [1:40:52] Do you see a vice president? [1:40:54] Look. [1:40:56] Would you unite the party [1:40:57] by trying to pick Senator Sanders as your running mate? [1:41:00] Well, I'm certainly going to unite the party, [1:41:02] but I'm not getting ahead of myself. [1:41:04] I think that would be a little bit presumptuous. [1:41:07] If I'm so fortunate as to be the nominee, [1:41:10] first person I will call to talk to about where we go [1:41:12] and how we get it done will be Senator Sanders. [1:41:19] Would you consider to the secretary? [1:41:21] I agree with what the secretary said. [1:41:23] We shouldn't be getting ahead of ourselves. [1:41:27] And as I have said many times, you know, [1:41:28] sometimes in these campaigns, [1:41:30] things get a little bit out of hand. [1:41:32] I happen to respect the secretary very much. [1:41:34] I hope it's mutual. [1:41:36] And on our worst days, I think it is fair to say, [1:41:41] we are 100 times better than any Republican candidate. [1:42:04] Secretary Clinton, closing statements, you are first. [1:42:06] Well, first, thanks to MSNBC and thanks to all of you [1:42:11] for holding this debate before the New Hampshire primary. [1:42:15] I am going to campaign as hard as I can between now and Tuesday [1:42:20] to earn your votes in that primary. [1:42:22] And I hear some talk that people are trying to decide, [1:42:25] do they vote with their heart, do they vote with their head? [1:42:28] I'm asking you to bring both your heart and your head [1:42:31] to vote with you on Tuesday. [1:42:33] Because we have a lot of work that can only come [1:42:36] because your heart is moved. [1:42:38] You know, we didn't get to talk about the continuing struggles [1:42:41] that Americans face with racism, with sexism, [1:42:43] with discrimination against the LGBT community, [1:42:46] with new Americans, with people with disabilities. [1:42:48] Yes, we have income inequality. [1:42:50] We have other forms of inequality that we need to stand up against [1:42:53] and absolutely diminish from our society. [1:42:57] So I have been moved by my heart ever since I was a young woman, [1:43:01] about the age of a lot of Senator Sanders supporters, [1:43:04] worrying about what I could do to make a difference for my country. [1:43:08] And I will bring that heart with me. [1:43:10] But I will also tell you, we've got to get our heads together [1:43:14] to come up with the best answers to solve the problems [1:43:17] so that people can have real differences in their lives [1:43:20] that will make them better for now and into the future. [1:43:23] Senator Sanders. [1:43:38] I, my dad came to this country at the age of 17 from Poland. [1:43:43] I didn't have any money, couldn't speak English. [1:43:47] He died pretty young. [1:43:48] And I think it would have been beyond his wildest dreams [1:43:51] to see his son up here on the stage today running for president. [1:43:56] I love this country and my dad loved this country. [1:43:59] And he was the most proud American because of what it gave him [1:44:03] in terms of raising his family, even though we never had much money. [1:44:07] But today in America, we are the only major country on Earth [1:44:11] that doesn't guarantee health care to all people, [1:44:14] that doesn't guarantee paid family and medical leave. [1:44:17] We have the highest rate of childhood poverty [1:44:19] of almost any major country on Earth. [1:44:23] We are seeing millions of families unable to send their kids to college [1:44:29] in the United States of America. [1:44:31] I'm running for president because I believe it is just too late [1:44:35] for establishment politics and establishment economics. [1:44:39] I do believe we need a political revolution [1:44:41] where millions of people stand up and say loudly and clearly [1:44:46] that our government belongs to all of us [1:44:49] and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. [1:44:53] Thank you all. [1:44:59] I promise you, Rachel and I have a lot more questions, [1:45:03] but we just don't have any more time unless we can convince them [1:45:06] to do a third hour, but I don't think so. [1:45:08] Our debate coverage, host debate coverage will continue [1:45:10] in just a moment with our colleague Chris Matthews. [1:45:13] But we want to thank all of you for being here [1:45:15] and we want to thank the two candidates for taking part [1:45:17] in this important event. [1:45:18] We also want to thank our host, University of New Hampshire [1:45:21] and the people of New Hampshire. [1:45:23] You guys get to vote. [1:45:30] We'll see you in a few minutes. [1:45:31] Thank you. [1:45:31] Thank you.