Face the Nation: Pence, McCain

[0:04] welcome back to face the nation we are joined now by former vice president mike pence who has [0:09] a new book what conservatives believe rediscovering the conservative conscience [0:14] good morning to you mr vice president good morning mark good to see you you clearly think [0:18] your party needs some reminders here um and and you write that americans are confused about what [0:24] it means to be a conservative you say for many right-wing populists grievance dictates policy [0:31] who or what are you thinking about there well i think look from all of my adult life the republican [0:39] party has been defined by a commitment to a conservative agenda to america as leader of [0:46] the free world to limited government free market economics and traditional moral values especially [0:52] the right to life and i'm proud to say that that from the reagan administration to the first trump [0:57] administration we governed on that agenda but i i wrote what conservatives believe because just [1:04] in the last four or five years there's been a rise of what i call the populist right that focuses more [1:12] on what we're against than what we're for focuses more on grievance than a positive conservative agenda [1:18] i mean the conservative movement has always been uh battling politically with the progressive left but [1:25] now there's a new threat from the populist right that would uh embrace uh policies of isolationism abroad [1:33] that would embrace big government and protectionism at home marginalize the right to life and as we go [1:40] into this fall's elections and go into 2028 i thought it was important that we take a moment as a party and [1:46] as a movement to remind ourselves what we believe but some of what you are describing um isn't just on the [1:53] fringes or within the party it's the president of the united states who's leader of that party and you [1:58] right he has not always governed as a conservative um i understand that the president's overall approval [2:07] rating is low it is but he still seems to have this vice grip on the neck of the republican party right now [2:14] so how can you revive a portion of it that that he is in opposition to i mean right to life was one of [2:21] them as you just detailed you split with him very publicly on that you think he betrayed it you think [2:26] he betrayed on for example spending and the way he's uh dealing with some of the free market issues [2:31] right well look i think the second uh trump administration has got a lot right they got [2:36] the border secured after the worst border crisis in american history they extended those trump pence tax [2:42] cuts that we passed in their entirety uh they've stood uh without apology for our cherished ally israel [2:49] and took the fight directly uh to iran but on on other instances you've seen the impact and the embrace [2:58] by the president and people around him of the politics of the populist right uh the price controls on on [3:05] credit cards and pharmaceuticals nationalization of american businesses of course broad-based tariffs on [3:13] friend and foe alike add to that marginalizing the right to life doing nothing about uh the broad [3:20] distribution of the abortion pill by mail that joe biden's administration made possible and then the [3:26] stops and starts on ukraine while they've been strong on israel strong with iran the stops and starts [3:33] reflect more the politics of the progressive left and appeasement than that time-honored conservative [3:39] agenda that's defined our party at home and abroad why isn't the party standing up to him then well [3:45] look i i give the president all you've got the majority in the house and senate they're pretty silent [3:49] he has earned great uh loyalty among republican primary voters we saw that in texas he saw that in [3:56] louisiana we saw that in indiana in our recent state senate primaries and i think it's because look [4:02] the the progressive left uh has been essentially in the saddle for about 100 years in this country [4:10] ronald reagan began the battle back i think republican voters truly appreciate the way that [4:16] president trump has fought back against the radical left and continues to but i want our voters to know [4:24] that there's there is this new push from the populist right and as we look at the midterm elections as we [4:30] look at 2028 i think it's important that we focus on on what we're for because not only is it a winning [4:36] agenda for republicans margaret i i believe it's delivered freedom and prosperity for the american [4:41] people well when you say primary voters you know that that is not necessarily all republican voters [4:47] certainly you just look at the turnouts in that texas race to speak to that but isn't your party from [4:54] the president on down with this gerrymandering push locking in the changes that will only [5:00] feed into that more extreme part of the party well the populist it's uh you know it's it's awfully hard [5:08] for democrats to throw stones when they live in glass houses on gerrymandering you know they're sure [5:13] but there are states around the country that incentivize bipartisanship right there are states [5:17] around the country though where 40 percent of voters are republicans and there are no republican [5:22] representatives from those states in the congress so i've so you support i've never been a fan of [5:27] partisan gerrymandering but look i have great confidence in the american people and in republican [5:33] voters i think if we hold the banner of of american leadership on the world stage of limited government [5:42] free market economics of traditional values in the right to life high i think voters will rally to our [5:48] cause in these midterms and in 2028 when we're going to decide whether the progressive left with its [5:56] embrace of socialism is in the lead on the national stage or or whether a populist right that uh that [6:04] is a form of progressive politics i mean this is when you look at uh the embrace of isolationism [6:11] protectionism nationalization of companies uh and marginalizing values it's it is a it's it's more and [6:20] more an echo of what the left has provided i think as president reagan said years ago the republican [6:26] party ought to offer a choice not an echo but isn't the vice president jd vance an echo of all of those [6:32] things if president trump's not a conservative is jd vance one well look let me say i lost count of the [6:39] number of times president trump corrected me when i said that a particular position was conservative in [6:45] fact he said himself he he's not a conservative he's never really claimed to be uh i i'm less clear [6:52] about the vice president's views and his philosophy of government but i'm very clear as i wrote in my [6:58] book that there is this new tension within the republican party that will take those pieces of the agenda [7:06] the populist right agenda that president trump has embraced and try and make that the new direction of [7:11] the republican party i think that'd be bad for the republican party i think it'd be worse for the [7:16] country that needs a vigorous strong conservative party committed to freedom committed to free markets [7:23] committed to traditional values talking about the midterms you also spent a lot of time writing about [7:27] character um and you say it matters last week texas republicans voted to make you know this is coming [7:34] ken paxton is their their nominee uh he's the current ag he was impeached by the republican controlled house [7:40] um multiple charges of abuse there including bribery his wife a sitting senator in that state accused [7:48] him of committing adultery and is divorcing him on quote biblical grounds he was indicted [7:54] in 2015 on securities fraud charges though those charges were dropped and the president chose him [8:01] over a much more conservative in your description john cornet does character represent does character of [8:10] ken paxton represent your party well i think as i write in my book uh i think character uh integrity [8:16] to principle uh are enormously important uh in the life of our movement in the life of our nation but [8:23] you know when i look at the texas primary when i look at louisiana uh kentucky indiana's many [8:29] state senate races i i see it more as a reflection of the grip that president trump has on republican [8:36] primary voters who are grateful for the way that he has stood up and fought against uh the radical left [8:43] look you look at where the democratic party is today i mean it's it's amazing to see if republicans [8:49] in part have lost our way with the with embracing the populist right uh democrats have have gone over [8:57] the beam with embracing socialist candidates socialist policies i think republican voters [9:02] from ken paxton he does not republican voters want to push back on that they respect the president's [9:08] views i just want to make sure people understand that as we sort through all these elections this [9:13] year that there's a new force afoot in the republican party and i think we've got to get back to those [9:18] core values and principles that have always made our country and our party strong and prosperous [9:23] well at louisiana's senator bill cassidy his offense to president trump seemed to be that vote to [9:28] convict him in the second impeachment trial following the attack on the capitol on january 6th does it [9:34] trouble you that the president is even making primary choices based on grievances having to do from [9:39] january 6th well i i don't know precisely what the president's reasons were for weighing in in louisiana [9:46] pretty explicitly the way that he did so you know we have we haven't chatted in a while so uh but uh yeah i [9:54] i i i you know i i'll be honest with you that i'll never minimize uh what happened on january 6th [10:01] and i'll always believe by god's grace we did our duty that day to the seat of the peaceful transfer [10:06] of power under the constitution it's it's one of the reasons why i this talk of a weaponization fund [10:12] right margaret uh the idea of creating a fund that could compensate people who who assaulted police [10:18] officers and vandalize the capitol uh that day is totally unacceptable uh my hope is the [10:24] administration will drop it drop the idea entirely do you think senate republicans will make them [10:30] drop it because it's hard to stand up to the president many republicans find well because of [10:35] what you just said it is primaries and those midterms it it is but uh i've been heartened uh by the [10:41] number of republicans the senate who's spoken out against it look that people that assaulted police [10:48] officers uh on january 6th and vandalized our capital should not get one dime of taxpayer money [10:55] from that fund or anywhere else but i mean even just the the precedent of setting it up um should [11:02] they exclude january 6 attackers that the idea of a weaponization fund um it is its own you know thing [11:09] that it bears examining but i want to explicitly ask you about something also that happened in washington [11:14] we don't we don't need slush funds to settle cases you view it as a slush fund there was a pro-life [11:18] family that was literally run over by the biden department of justice that it was just a seven [11:24] figure settlement for them the the doj can settle these uh issues where where people have had their [11:30] rights trampled on uh and and ought to do that i welcome that settlement greatly uh last week at the [11:36] request of the department of justice a federal appeals court threw out the convictions of four members [11:41] a far-right extremist group the oath keepers that was a militia involved in january 6th do you think [11:47] that the trump administration is deliberately whitewashing that day well i've certainly seen [11:57] evidence of that um particularly i i was offended uh on the anniversary of january 6th when the white [12:05] house put out a timeline that literally blamed capitol hill police for the riot that took place that day [12:12] uh look i'm very confident uh that uh of the judgment of history uh in the years ahead about [12:21] our role about all the republicans and democrats who returned that day after capitol police secured the [12:27] capitol and we all did our duty under the constitution but uh but there there there's clearly been an effort [12:34] by some uh to rewrite that history but i i don't expect it'll work all right mr vice president thank you very [12:43] much for sharing your reflections it's good to have you here in person too uh thank you margaret [12:47] appreciate it we'll be right back world food program executive director cindy mccain is stepping down [12:55] from her post monday during her three years at the helm of the un agency there have been two famines and [13:01] when we spoke with her late last week from rome she told us we're looking potentially at several more [13:07] among many other challenges there is this emergency response to ebola in the congo that's a country [13:14] that's already struggling as i understand it with about 27 million food insecure people [13:21] i know the u.s state department is pledging some help here but but what are you hearing about the [13:26] situation on the ground for emergency responders like yours it's not good and this is it's it's uh [13:35] hitting people in a mass way and there's really no no way to know right now how many people have been [13:41] affected by this we know that it's it's a rampage now with it so what what we need to do is not only [13:48] be able to get in we we run logistics we bring in supplies we bring in people um and we and we do much [13:55] more than that as well just in the region uh but this is going to take a real world effort this is very [14:01] deadly you said there's a rampage of ebola i mean are you are you able to keep your workers on the [14:09] ground our workers are on the ground but my one of my big projects my the reason a large reason what [14:17] we planned today was taking care of our own people the duty of care and that comes into play because [14:23] right now there's no adequate facility set up to handle that and so we're looking uh you obviously putting [14:31] together a task force and a team that will do just that to make sure that we're protected as well [14:36] as of course anyone that is from wfp well you have been in this role at a time when there are so [14:42] many hot spots so many conflicts and of course the mid-east continues to um be a big challenge i [14:50] understand that you still do have some operations inside of iran as you know there isn't a free press [14:57] on the ground able to document what's happening what can you tell us about how civilians there [15:03] are doing things aren't good i mean let's face it when you shut the straits of war moves and you've [15:08] got bombings on both sides all the way up and down uh people are going to kind of not only become food [15:14] insecure they're going to starve it's time to end this and make sure that we can open the straits of [15:20] war moves because it's affecting everybody and it will take us months to get back on track when they do open [15:26] it months to get back on track why is that because the ships with the food are stuck or because of [15:31] the food prices why prices uh availability uh a movement uh good example is that we we do work in [15:42] afghanistan and before what would usually take us three weeks maybe to get the food in from where it [15:49] comes in from now it takes us almost three months and so so in the but in the meantime women and children [15:56] which are always the first to be hit are starving and so this is the case with all of them when you [16:02] talk about fertilizer when you talk about seeds of course and other things they're they're being [16:07] moved around that helps stave off hunger it's a real problem bigger picture when you look at the [16:14] destruction in the middle east just within the past few years how do you describe to an american at home [16:22] what the longer term impact is well the longer term impact to put it very bluntly is not good uh you [16:31] know we staved off hunger in gaza when it was finally the ceasefire held and we were able to get trucks in [16:38] at scale we're back to where we were we can't get trucks in at scale people are you know as you know [16:43] there's bombings there's all those things and we're looking at a not just a serious situation we're [16:49] looking at possibly losing a generation of children uh so in any of these countries where there's an [16:55] issue lebanon uh gaza syria sudan you know all the ones that i've been to plus ukraine um it it access [17:05] and being able to get in at scale is most important and make sure making sure that our humanitarian workers [17:11] are not targets and that we respect humanitarian law and that simply isn't happening right now [17:18] it's very dangerous to be an aid worker right now what do you mean losing a generation of children [17:24] well when you when you talk about kids that are not either not getting enough food or what they're [17:29] getting is not nutritious enough and plus there's no schools open and there's no uh you know proper [17:35] housing clean water etc medicine etc uh that that spells disaster for a child especially and so i'm a [17:44] obviously a one that has as a mother first and a grandmother six times over and so i see it through [17:50] my mother's eyes i you know it you will do anything to feed your children anything as a parent and the [17:58] fact that that can't it's not happening in so many of these areas now is really alarming and very desperate [18:05] i've heard you say feed them now or fight them later you draw a direct connection to national security [18:12] and radicalization yes no you're absolutely right uh we believe that because when folks who are hungry [18:21] can't get adequate nutrition or food they will turn to the bad guys because food's offered there [18:27] you recently were asked about um the conservative movement and that within the conservative movement [18:34] aid you said has become a dirty word and being a humanitarian useless [18:40] you're a lifelong conservative um when when you describe things going this direction that has to [18:50] be hard to stomach why do you think this is happening and do you think it is temporary i i i will say this [19:00] obviously that was uh that was frustration speaking to a great degree i believe there are many many many [19:08] good people in the united states that are more than willing to help this cause or help you know [19:13] whatever whatever they see fit to do for all of this but we need more of it and we need we need [19:19] actionable items from not just the united states but other countries around the globe that will stand [19:25] up also and help us we can't do this alone and we're we're hoping as you know the united states is [19:31] our largest donor and we're very proud of that but we need everybody involved in this america [19:37] though has changed its policy towards aid the trump administration uses that frayed phrase trade not [19:44] aid arguing they're going to be more efficient and and more effective with the support they provide in [19:50] the form of foreign assistance when you look at the places you operate do you think there has been [19:58] an impact from the dismantling of usaid i i do i really i do aid was it was an intimate [20:08] part of all of these things and and of course we relied on them on them to a degree as well [20:16] i wish we still had aid but it was the choice of this administration and so we have to work with that [20:23] i do i am hoping though that eventually we can put back some of the soft power aspects that we were [20:30] able to do as well as you know that's a very important part of at least usa but again i'm not [20:37] criticizing anybody in the administration i'm simply saying we need help our full interview [20:45] with ambassador mccain is on our youtube channel and our website and on face the nation's podcast [20:50] platform the kennedy center will soon once again be the kennedy center on friday a federal judge ordered [20:59] president trump's name to be removed in the next two weeks saying quote congress gave the kennedy [21:04] center its name and only congress can change it the judge also ruled that the kennedy center's board led [21:10] by president trump's hand-picked trustees cannot move forward with its plan to close the facility [21:16] in july for a multi-year renovation president trump expressed his frustration at the decision in a social [21:22] media post and said that he had canceled involvement with the failing and unsafe to be in kennedy center [21:28] it's just the latest setback for the president's effort to reimagine some of washington's historic [21:32] landmarks his renovation of the lincoln memorial reflecting pool and his demolition of the white house [21:37] east wing to build a ballroom are also facing legal challenges we'll be right back