Face the Nation: Isaacman, Broglio, reporters panel

[0:04] on thursday we spoke with archbishop timothy brolio the archdiocese for the military services [0:10] he oversees more than 200 priests serving as catholic chaplains in the u.s military [0:15] on bases and the battlefield we began by asking about the situation in the middle east [0:20] and the spiritual guidance the church is providing to service members who seek it we're dealing with [0:25] the situation in the middle east now for example where the chaplains are still in place but many [0:31] of the dependents have been moved to europe or back to the united states so they find themselves [0:39] in a situation where the faithful to whom they were ministering are either gone or they're in [0:44] hotels so that changes the whole reality and then there are others of course who are with the troops [0:51] that are have been moved in and of course their minister ministry in a certain sense is a little [0:57] more a little more regular but um it's still a challenge uh because of the situation [1:03] given that you're a priest ministering to people in the military i imagine much of your work much [1:09] of your focus is built around saint augustine and the idea of just war or when is war justified [1:16] the idea that it's only waged as a necessity and in order that peace may be obtained and more [1:21] broadly perhaps that the response is proportional correct that's to gloss over pretty deep teachings [1:27] but essentially that's the the root of it um i know that after the president for example threatened [1:33] to take greenland by force you had said in an interview it doesn't seem acceptable [1:37] to invade a friendly nation and that such rhetoric tarnishes the images of the united states [1:41] you said it would be an illegal and immoral order to kill deliberately the survivors aboard [1:45] an alleged venezuelan drug boat if they don't post an immediate lethal threat to our armed forces [1:51] so given what's going on in the middle east i'm curious is the war with iran justified [1:58] i would think under the justify under the just war theory um it is not [2:03] because while there is a there was a threat with nuclear arms um it's a it's compensating for a [2:11] threat before the the threat is actually is actually realized and i think there uh i would [2:18] i would line myself up with pope leo who has been urging for negotiation i realize also that you [2:26] could say well with whom are you going to negotiate and that that is that is a problem but um in the [2:34] meantime lives are being lost both there and also among our our troops so it's it is a it is a concern [2:41] and so if you're hearing from a service member who says if your teachings if your guidance is this is [2:49] not justified what am i to do as a catholic who's in the service and that that's a very good question [2:57] because obviously the way uh conscientious objection is set up in the united states military [3:03] you cannot object to a specific [3:05] war or a specific action you can only object to i'm opposed to war um so i would think [3:13] it depends on where you are in the uh in the chain of command obviously you know the [3:19] marine who's given an order he's not in a position really to to resist that order i mean he has to [3:26] obey unless it's it's less it's clearly immoral um and then he would probably have to speak to [3:32] his you know to his chaplain to his chain of command the question might be would [3:36] you know would would would generals or admirals have space to perhaps say can we look at this a [3:42] different way right um but having spoken to some of them too they're they're also in the same in [3:48] the same dilemma um so i guess my counsel would be to do as little harm as you as you can and to [3:55] try and preserve innocent lives and you're approaching this from a moral perspective this [3:59] isn't a partisan thing this is an ideological for your geopolitical it's you're a moral leader uh so [4:07] someone in the service who grapples with this will seek guidance from you and and your brother [4:12] chaplains how often do they come to you talking about how to seek forgiveness perhaps for being [4:18] part of this that is actually something we've done a lot of work on as an archdiocese the whole [4:22] question of moral injury so i mean even if you obey a legitimate command but you have to kill [4:28] someone um that's going to leave some some traces uh in you know in your in your heart or on your [4:36] soul and so there um we've tried to provide uh structures and and help to to people in that [4:46] situation to try and help them heal from those from those situations and that's not a question [4:51] of making a judgment it's just a question of healing the individual who finds himself in that [4:55] or herself in that in that situation yeah you obviously and and your and your brother priests [5:02] are on pentagon property uh taking orders obviously denmark lots of people are prepared to help in the [5:06] through the military chain of command there's been a lot of conversation in [5:12] recent weeks separate from the actual war itself regarding the rhetoric of say [5:19] the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth who openly invokes Jesus repeatedly when [5:25] talking about the war with Iran especially and has prayed openly from [5:28] the Pentagon press room for blessings upon American service members obviously [5:32] his right to pray in public and however he sees fit but what do you make of that [5:38] sort of focus and sort of trying to cast this war as something that perhaps Jesus [5:44] would justify it's it's a little bit problematic in the sense that a the Lord [5:53] Jesus certainly brought a message of a message of peace and and also I think [6:01] war is always a last resort [6:03] um now you know they may have information that that led them to think [6:09] that that was the only choice they had I I'm not making a judgment about that [6:12] because I really don't know um but I do think that it's it's hard to uh to cast [6:19] this war um you know as as as something that would be sponsored by uh by the Lord [6:28] and that's certainly something the Pope has suggested himself right not not [6:33] commenting on [6:34] the Secretary but a commenting on war generally that this idea that uh that you know if you're [6:41] praying uh for the success of the war what is it he said recently he said God does not listen to [6:46] the prayers of those who wage war but rejects them I mean that would seem to put a lot of what's going [6:51] on right now in conflict it's certain it certainly would and I I turned back to uh just to uh Paul [6:58] VI who who made very few trips outside of of Italy um but when he did come to the U.N [7:05] he made that dramatic appeal which which I saw live on television as a as a little kid [7:11] um you know jamais plus la guerre jamais plus la guerre never again war never again war and and [7:17] yet that was in 1965 I think um now so many years later we're still we're still in this situation [7:26] so I I think uh I think I would be in I think Pope Leo would definitely uh support saying that [7:33] uh you know we have to find a situation where [7:37] uh men and women can sit down and and find avenues of peace in our remaining moments you [7:42] obviously Minister primarily to Catholic service members but this is a holy season Passover underway [7:49] Ramadan recently having ended and ultimately on the battlefield it doesn't matter to your brother [7:54] chaplains whether they're Catholic or Protestant or Jewish what's the interfaith dialogue like [8:00] these days especially at a time of war uh I think it's uh it's it's very healthy in the sense that [8:07] there's a genuine desire to collaborate um I actually I know most of the rabbis in the services [8:12] because we frequently travel at the same the same time for us Christmas and Easter for them Passover [8:18] and Hanukkah and uh they're fewer in numbers so I certainly get to to meet them but there is a [8:25] genuine spirit of uh of collaboration and there's a desire to facilitate the work of of chaplains [8:32] and I think that's a very it's a very healthy thing well thank you for being here on this [8:37] Easter weekend and thank you obviously for your service not only to the country but to the faith [8:41] we appreciate you spending some time with us thank you thank you very much for the opportunity and [8:45] we'll be back in a moment we turn now to our political panel David Sanger is the White House [8:51] and National Security correspondent for The New York Times and the author of New Cold Wars paperback [8:56] copies coming out on Tuesday should check that out Amy Walter is the publisher and editor-in-chief of [9:00] the Cook Political Report with Amy Walter and Jeff Mason is a Washington correspondent at Bloomberg [9:06] making his Face the Nation debut [9:08] so Jeff at least under my rules you get the first question um this past week the White House tried [9:14] selling the war with Iran as a good thing then we had this fighter jet shot down both personnel on [9:21] board have now been rescued um how's that sales pitch landing with the American public well number [9:27] one I think it's right to call it a sales pitch and it's a late sales pitch because the president [9:30] did not give an address like that at the beginning of the war which most presidents would do before [9:35] a military conflict number two in that address on Wednesday night [9:39] used sales pitchy language talking about how long previous Wars have been how this is not going to [9:45] be that long going back to World War One and World War Two but then the political risk to those [9:51] remarks and and his entire sort of strategy rhetorically skyrocketed after an airplane was [9:58] shot down in Iran so certainly the fact that they have found that crewman is a huge political win [10:04] for him but there is still substantial political risk because to your question this is a very [10:09] popular War there's still some support within his base for it but polling shows that Americans writ [10:14] large do not so this is still a timeline the two to three week conversation more rooted in perhaps [10:21] economic considerations and military goals at least based on he is under significant pressure [10:26] because of the gasoline prices being up it also has taken away speaking of rhetoric a talking [10:31] point that he's been very happy to use for the last year and a half saying that he is responsible [10:35] for having brought prices down now he is clearly responsible for having [10:39] brought prices up and that's something that Americans will think about when they go to the [10:42] polls so Amy this was supposed to be the year of affordability for the White House and Republicans [10:46] it's not really at least that's not the focus right now um we I mean our polling for example 84 [10:53] of Republicans are still with him on this war but nearly 70 of Independence disapprove of military [10:58] action this is all I mean it's it's April churning up turning towards trouble in November right yes [11:05] now look it is only April so we still have time for this to [11:09] move its way through the process and it is true that the president now is looking at his lowest [11:15] approval ratings of his second term this week and a lot of that is driven by the fact that he's lost [11:22] the sort of strong support from Republicans I don't think Republicans have left him I just [11:29] think that they are feeling very dispirited and that is what gets Republicans the most nervous is [11:36] intensity and enthusiasm Democrats are fired up [11:40] Republicans are not if that continues as we move through this electoral season that's when things [11:47] get really bad for the Republican Party in November David uh this rescue operation successful elaborate [11:55] uh and and was executed in under 48 hours but what do you make of it and what we've heard from [12:01] the president this morning a bunch of language we can't repeat on broadcast television so um first [12:06] we should all celebrate the fact that they've got both these crew members it's a miracle [12:10] and it's an equal miracle that you could put hundreds of troops in to get them out and no [12:16] casualties there we've lost six aircraft in the past um a couple of days uh they can be replaced [12:24] or repaired but the fact of the matter is that that tells you there's accelerating risk here and [12:31] if you took the president's threat this morning to go after uh bridges and go after the electric [12:38] grid we'll set aside for a moment Ed the [12:41] fact remains that the president still finds himself in a box here he's trying to open up the [12:57] Straight that was a problem that got created after the war started he has not really explained how [13:04] he's going to deal with the nuclear material and near bomb grade material he said that was a reason [13:09] to go in this past week he said oh [13:11] really care about it that much. It's buried deep. We'll watch it on satellite. Well, we were watching [13:15] it on satellite before the war started. And I know he says there's been regime change, but we [13:23] haven't seen much regime change here. We have just seen the change of personnel. So he's got a lot of [13:29] things to go accomplish if he's going to get out of this and be able to claim to those voters that [13:35] he got something out of this. Well, and more to that point, the budget that he put forward this [13:41] week is spending so much more money on the military than on domestic priorities. And that [13:48] cuts against everything. If you're saying we need to make life more affordable, our number one [13:55] priority is to make life more affordable for Americans, to release a budget that increases [14:01] money only for the military and then cuts domestic programs is not a great pitch. And he made that [14:07] astounding comment that because the federal government should only be focused on military [14:11] protection. [14:12] The state should pay for Medicare, Medicaid and daycare. And it was caught on camera, probably [14:17] coming to campaign ads near us soon. I was just going to say, you know how both Republicans and [14:21] Democrats hear a quote that they think, oh, that's going to be the lead of my next campaign ad. [14:26] That's one for Democrats. And he risks he's not just losing some Dems, certainly an independence [14:32] going into this election, but he he's testing the tolerance of his base. I was at CPAC a little over [14:38] a week ago, and there are a lot of grassroots supporters there. [14:42] They said, we still support President Trump. We still support this war. But there were certainly [14:46] some who were started to question it. And we've also seen quite a bit of division at the leader [14:51] level of MAGA and Republicans. And that messaging sinks down to the base as well in our in our [14:57] remaining moments. Amy, I want to start with you. You heard Governor Moore more than happy to [15:01] criticize the war effort, but failed to provide any specifics on what he'd do differently. And [15:06] that while Republicans are in a bit of a in a bit of a pickle this year, Democrats aren't much. [15:12] This is what's fascinating. This 2028 election cycle that we are very close to bumping into, [15:18] believe it or not, is going to be the first election in 10 years where Donald Trump is [15:23] not the centerpiece of it or where candidates should would do well to not make Donald Trump [15:29] the centerpiece of it. I think Americans are looking for for both parties an idea of who [15:34] these parties are, what they stand for, what they're going to do for me rather than how [15:38] they're going to fit into a world that Trump has really dominated politically, [15:42] the last. Yeah, I gave him credit for the idea that I was intrigued by that buckets theory that [15:48] he had, but he clearly couldn't fill it. Well, yeah. And that's part of the process. And this [15:52] is we're at this place. And, you know, because you're going to be at a lot of these games, [15:55] this is spring training for politicians right now. And this is how they get their swings in. [15:59] In our remaining minute, David, I'd be remiss if we didn't mention today the ouster of Army chief [16:04] of staff, General Randy George, essentially pushed out by Pete Hegseth. What is removing someone like [16:10] him do to the opposition? I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think [16:12] that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's [16:12] a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. Officer ranks and to [16:14] the rank and file overall. So I think what surprised people is the degree to which Secretary [16:18] Hegseth has reached way down into the system and the split with Randy George was in part over Hegseth [16:26] insistence that they not promote two black and two women candidates for one star general. Very rare [16:35] you see anybody get into that. Just one last quick point on your interesting interview with Governor [16:43] What I think Democrats have to get their heads around now is what are they going to say about [16:48] Iran? Can we leave nuclear material there? What are they going to say about the priorities of [16:54] a president who has not emphasized China, which we have been told is the existential political [17:00] and economic and technological competitor? And we haven't heard that from them. [17:05] We have not. We will wait to hear from them about that in the coming months. Thank you all for being [17:11] here. We have to go to the moon next. So, well, kind of. We'll explain in a moment. Stay with us. [17:18] This morning, the Artemis 2 crew is closer to the moon than ever before. Here's a look at the [17:23] exterior of the Orion capsule this morning. The four astronauts inside are prepping a six-hour [17:28] flyby around the far side of the moon tomorrow. For an update, we go now to NASA Administrator [17:33] Jared Isaacman, who is inside Houston's mission control. Administrator, thank you so much for [17:39] being here with us. The four astronauts on board are roughly halfway through their mission, [17:43] now. What, in your view, is the most critical moment of the next 24 to 48 hours? Well, I would [17:50] say, and first, good morning. Happy Easter, Ed. The primary objective right now for this phase [17:56] of the mission is continuing to gather data from the Eclos system, the life support system on the [18:01] Orion spacecraft. This is the first time we've ever had humans on board the Orion spacecraft. [18:06] We want to gather as much data as we possibly can for that. Of course, there's various science [18:11] experiments. There's lunar observations. But learning as much as we can about Orion is [18:15] very important, because Artemis III is a year away. That's where we're going to test the same [18:20] spacecraft with our lunar landers, followed up in 2028 by Artemis IV, where we're going to use this [18:26] spacecraft transfer crew to the landers and put American astronauts back on the surface of the [18:30] moon. You make a good point. This is a test mission, and it's testing as much the vessel [18:37] that they're in as much as what they're looking for. But they are going to have to spend some time [18:41] on Monday, essentially, looking out the windows and looking for parts of the moon that aren't [18:45] really seen before. What specifically are they looking for? [18:48] Well, I would have to say after a 250,000-mile journey away from Earth to the far side of the moon, [18:56] it would be pretty hard to keep them away from those windows. But they absolutely have observation [19:01] responsibilities on that. They have a series of different cameras. They're going to get data from [19:07] that, for sure. They've actually had an opportunity for three and a half years to train for this [19:10] mission, to work with our scientists on the information they would like to gather most about the [19:15] far side of the moon. [19:16] But all of this comes together to inform subsequent missions like Artemis 3, but most importantly now, [19:22] Artemis 4, which is where we're going to actually get those astronauts back on the surface. [19:26] Yeah. To your point, you want to land one and possibly two missions on the moon just two years [19:31] from now. NASA hired SpaceX and Blue Origin to build the lunar landers that will deliver [19:37] astronauts to the surface of the moon. What are you doing to ensure that at least one of [19:40] those two companies is going to be ready to do that? [19:43] Well, I'll tell you. We're doing a lot of things different over the last couple months, [19:47] right? We're doing a lot of things different over the last couple of months, right? [19:47] I mean, President Trump gave me a national space policy that called for America's return to the [19:51] moon with frequency to establish an enduring presence to build the moon base and do other [19:56] exciting things like nuclear power and propulsion. And we got $10 billion worth of resources out of [20:01] the one big, beautiful bill, the Working Family Tax Cutting Act. Now we are actually going to work. [20:05] We are taking NASA subject matter experts and we are embedding them across the supply chain, every [20:10] prime contractor, subcontractor, every component on the critical path from the rocket itself to the [20:16] landers to the suits. [20:17] And we are driving outcomes. We are not going to be passive anymore. We're not going to let budgets, you know, get over budget or behind schedule, not when there's so much at stake when it comes to America's return to the moon. So we are driving outcomes, and that certainly includes the lunar landers. [20:35] Quickly, then, how does a budget, proposed budget cut of more than 20% potentially affect these plans? [20:41] Yeah, so I certainly support President Trump and his 2027 budget request. Look, we have a 20% budget cut of more than 20% potentially affect these plans. [20:42] Yeah, so I certainly support President Trump and his 2027 budget request. Look, we have a 20% budget cut of more than 20% potentially affect these plans. [20:47] This is an accelerating process. We have a 20, we have 26 appropriations. We have $10 billion in supplemental funding that came out of the President Trump's signature legislation, the [20:55] Working Family Tax Cut Act. [20:58] I mean, this is the biggest, you know, supplemental investment in NASA since the Kennedy era. [21:06] These resources are the only reason we can accelerate production to get to the moon, to add a mission in 27, which is Artemis III, and to do all the other things like launching the first interplanetary nuclear-powered spacecraft in 2028 that's going to go past Mars, Mars 4, and Mars 5, and so forth. [21:11] these resources are the only reason we can accelerate production to get to the moon, to add a mission in 2027 which is Artemis III, to build the Moon base and do all the other things like launching the first interplanetary nuclear-powered spacecraft in 2028 that's going to go past Mars, Mars 4, and Mars 5, and so on. [21:15] 28 that's going to go past Mars, release a bunch of copters, and a whole lot of other [21:19] science missions. [21:21] I think the American public and the taxpayers should be judging NASA based on outcomes and [21:26] not how quickly we can spend money every year. [21:28] In 20 seconds or less, as they pass on the other side of the moon tomorrow for about [21:32] 40 minutes, what are you going to be thinking about as the astronauts do that? [21:37] Well, I got to tell you, people have been asking me questions about the loss of comms [21:41] as we go around the moon. [21:42] That is something we're very used to in spaceflight. [21:45] Astronaut control is used to that. [21:47] Astronauts are used to that as they go through training. [21:48] So less about the loss of comms on the far side of the moon. [21:51] I'm always going to be thinking about the life support systems on the vehicle because [21:54] it's a test mission. [21:55] But I'll tell you, most importantly, I'm thinking about the thermal protection systems and when [21:59] these astronauts are under parachute safely in the water so we can get them back to their [22:03] families. [22:04] Administrator Jared Isaacman in Houston, thank you so much for joining us on this Easter [22:08] Sunday. [22:09] We appreciate it. [22:10] And that is it for us today. [22:11] Thank you for watching. [22:12] Margaret will be back next Sunday. [22:13] Until then, for Face the Nation, I'm Ed Occhi.