Face the Nation: Fitzpatrick, Suozzi and Gates

[0:00] Welcome back to Face the Nation and the co-chairs of the bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus. [0:11] Republican Brian Fitzpatrick joins us from Langhorne, Pennsylvania. [0:15] Democrat Tom Suozzi from Queens, New York. [0:18] Good morning to you both, gentlemen. [0:21] Good morning. [0:22] I want to start with you, Congressman Fitzpatrick. [0:25] You know, CBS estimates that the net impact of all this redistricting is that Republicans are going to get roughly nine seats, [0:34] or get them 90s closer, I should say, to keeping control of the House. [0:39] I mean, presumably that's the outcome the president was looking for here. [0:43] Why are you concerned that, you know, driving towards the majority through these methods is actually a negative for your party? [0:53] It's a terrible thing for our country, Margaret. [0:57] Gerrymandering is one of the most, if not the most corrosive things to our democracy that I can imagine. [1:03] Tom and I completely agree with it. [1:05] Our entire bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus agrees to it. [1:08] We met this past week to start taking measurable steps to fight back because, you know, part of the challenge, Margaret, is, you know, [1:16] much like how elections are conducted, these district lines, it's largely a function of state government and state legislative action. [1:24] The only jurisdictional hook we have on the federal system is funding. [1:28] So particularly the Help America Vote Act, the so-called HAVA funding that passed after the Bush v. Gore hanging chat election, you know, we can tie that money. [1:37] It's billions of dollars that get sent to the states to carry out their elections. [1:41] We can tie that funding to certain reforms. [1:43] And one of the things that has to happen, only seven states, by the way, do this in America, is have independent citizen commissions with computer-generated line drawing assisting them to make sure that we have more balanced districts in this country. [1:56] Well, I understand the effort and the intent, but Congressman Swazi, your party's leaders, also gerrymandering, and your group, as we just heard from Congressman Fitzpatrick, [2:10] you're supporting efforts to stop it, but it looks like your members are going to be directly impacted themselves. [2:16] About 45 members of your caucus may face redistricting. [2:20] You've said it's going to kill the country. [2:23] I mean, how does it actually kill the ability to reach across the aisle like you gentlemen are doing? [2:28] What happens is when you create these safe seats through gerrymandering is that the only elections that matter are not the general election, but the primary. [2:38] So everybody panders to their base. [2:40] The Republicans talk to their base. [2:42] The Democrats talk to their base instead of talking to all of their constituents about what they care about. [2:47] And there's a lot of pandering that goes on. [2:49] So, you know, we're in this battle right now, this race to the bottom, and we're going to fight fire with fire. [2:55] The Democrats are going to fight the Republicans. [2:56] The Republicans are going to fight the Democrats. [2:58] It's bad for America. [2:59] It's bad for America to have all these safe seats where no politician is incentivized to listen to people and to reach across the aisle. [3:08] So I misspoke. [3:10] It's 45 members in your caucus. [3:12] More than a dozen of them may be directly impacted. [3:14] But still, I take your broader point here that it's damaging to the ability to work cross aisle. [3:22] But I want to ask you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, from the Republican perspective, we just saw what happened overnight down in Louisiana where Senator Bill Cassidy lost in this three-way primary. [3:33] The president himself, the leader of your party, who wanted this redistricting, has also been directly involved in some of these primary races, picking candidates. [3:46] He came out hard against Cassidy. [3:48] He's also now focusing in on Congressman Thomas Massey of Kentucky, who has taken votes in opposition to the president, including for the release of the Epstein files. [3:58] I mean, is the message here for Republicans that if you dissent from the president, he's going to take you down? [4:06] Well, it's one of the many reasons, Margaret, why we need to open primaries up in all 50 states. [4:14] Another cause that Tom and I are behind. [4:17] Over half the states in this country have closed primaries, meaning that if you're a registered independent, you are excluded from voting in 50 percent of elections. [4:26] And let's just put this in a context. [4:28] You could be a 98-year-old World War II veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy, saved civilization, who registers independent in the land of independence, which we're celebrating 250 years of, and in half of the states of this country, including, unfortunately, our home state here in Pennsylvania. [4:44] If you register independent, you're told you're not welcome to vote in half of elections. [4:49] That is insane. [4:50] And not only is it an injustice, Margaret, it has a terrible corrosive effect on the floor of the House. [4:55] Tom and I see it all the time. [4:56] We call it the vote no, hope yes crowd. [4:58] They go to the House floor wanting to support a policy, knowing that policy is the right thing to do. [5:03] But because they live in a closed primary state and 18 percent of Americans, 18 percent of Americans vote in primaries, they're going to the House floor thinking about 18 percent of their electorate instead of 100 percent of their electorate. [5:16] So closed primaries, coupled with gerrymandering, your previous question, are really, really hurting our country. [5:21] They're causing gridlock on the House floor. [5:23] Yeah, it would seem, though, that you are really swimming against the tide here, both of you gentlemen. [5:30] I want to ask you, Congressman Swazi, about your— [5:33] Can I just make one quick? [5:34] Yeah, sure. [5:35] I was going to ask you about your race, but go ahead. [5:36] Let me just make a quick point. [5:39] I'm in a district that Donald Trump won by 19,000 votes. [5:42] Yeah. [5:43] Brian's in a—and I'm a Democrat. [5:45] Brian's in a district, as a Republican, that Kamala Harris won. [5:47] Listen, for me to win my race, I have to listen to everybody. [5:51] I need the large majority of Democrats to vote for me. [5:54] I need the majority of independents to vote for me. [5:56] I even need a few Republicans to listen to—to vote for me. [5:59] So I've got to listen to everybody. [6:01] Mm-hmm. [6:01] And that's what's good for America, is when their elected officials have to listen to [6:05] their people. [6:06] When you do all this gerrymandering and create all these safe seats, the politicians in the [6:11] safe seats—most of the elected officials in Congress right now—only have to win their [6:15] primary, because they're guaranteed the Republicans are going to win the Republican seat, the Democrats [6:19] are going to win the Democratic seat, and then they only listen to their base, and they [6:22] pander to their base. [6:23] That's contributing to the division of our country, along with social media, cable news, [6:28] our foreign adversaries filling our social media feeds with a bunch of dreck. [6:31] I'm not going to push back on you on those points here, sir. [6:36] But back to the question I was going to ask you in regard to your race, I know that when [6:41] it comes to people like you have to go out and persuade, you believe that Democrats can [6:47] really make a case on the affordability argument. [6:50] We've been talking about the polling that CBS has done showing how worrisome it is for [6:55] the president's party. [6:56] But it also shows neither Democrats nor Republicans own the message. [7:02] It's pretty evenly split. [7:03] Thirty-five percent say Democrats would be better. [7:06] It's thirty-one percent who think Trump are Republicans who would be. [7:09] Thirty-four percent, neither or not sure. [7:13] No one's really convinced that either of the parties have an answer here. [7:17] So how do you actually make that an edge? [7:21] Yeah, there's no question that this is a major problem. [7:24] Affordability is the number one issue in America. [7:25] Your polling just shows that. [7:27] And we see prices are going up like crazy. [7:29] Why? [7:30] Because of the tariffs, because of the war, because of the new data centers, and because [7:34] of all the debt. [7:35] And we have to propose policies that Democrats and Republicans will work together. [7:41] You know, the tariff issue, the president's supposed to come to Congress. [7:45] The war powers. [7:46] The president's supposed to come to Congress. [7:47] Let's work together to actually put solutions in place so we can get back to a place in [7:52] America where everybody, whether you're a left-wing progressive or a right-wing conservative, [7:56] you believe that in return for working hard, you make enough money so you can afford to [8:00] buy a house, educate your kids, pay for health insurance, and retire without being scared. [8:04] We've got to get back to those basic fundamental messages. [8:08] Enough with the finger-pointing and the culture wars. [8:10] Let's focus on the economics of people's lives so we can rebuild the middle class and help [8:16] those folks that are aspiring to the middle class. [8:18] But in some ways, that polling, Congressman Fitzpatrick, says people want something different [8:22] from what they're hearing from both of the parties. [8:24] They're not hearing new ideas. [8:27] Go ahead. [8:29] Yeah. [8:30] Over half of the people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. [8:34] A lot of the things that are being discussed inside the state capitals across America, inside [8:39] the U.S. capital, is not laser-focused on that all day, every day. [8:42] You know, yes, we have to focus on national security. [8:44] Yes, we have to focus on foreign policy. [8:46] We've got to do it all. [8:47] Yeah. [8:47] But we cannot ignore the fact that half of Americans are stressing over their family budgets, [8:52] and that's got to drive the legislative agenda. [8:55] I believe that it was that reason that, you know, President Trump won in 2024. [9:00] I think that's why Zoran Mandami won in 2025. [9:03] And I think both parties, Margaret, are failing to get that message that we have to focus like [9:08] a laser on the economy, on these family budgets, and identify the silos. [9:13] What's causing high energy costs? [9:15] What's causing high child care costs? [9:17] What's causing high health care costs? [9:18] Tom and I stepped forward through a discharge petition and passed through the House the [9:24] premium tax credit extension. [9:26] We're trying to do our part to cross the aisle to work in the center to focus on the issues [9:31] that people really care about, which is the kitchen table issues. [9:33] Well, to that point, President Trump told my colleague Nancy Cordes that he endorsed a [9:38] federal gas tax holiday. [9:40] I believe it still would have to go before Congress. [9:42] Would both of you gentlemen vote for that, suspending it? [9:48] I think, you know, we have to consider it's a short-term fix. [9:51] It's going to affect the—yeah, it's a short-term fix. [9:56] We've really got to get to—the president's got to come to Congress to discuss the war and [10:00] how to move forward to get out of the war and to affect the gas prices. [10:05] That's the real issue here. [10:06] The tariffs are what are really affecting people's prices. [10:10] Come to Congress. [10:12] Work with Democrats and Republicans. [10:13] Let's try and move our country forward. [10:17] Congress. [10:17] Margaret. [10:18] Yeah, go ahead. [10:19] Yeah, my answer to that question. [10:21] So we work with a lot with the labor unions. [10:24] They've expressed some concerns about this federal gas tax holiday that it might raid the [10:29] highway transit fund, which they rely on heavily for all the local infrastructure and national [10:33] infrastructure projects for that matter. [10:35] So I think the devil is in the detail. [10:37] When we say federal gas tax holiday, where is that money coming from? [10:40] That's really going to be the driving question. [10:42] Yes, we want to do everything possible to lower gas prices, but we don't want to rob Peter [10:46] to pay Paul. [10:47] So we have to look at the details here. [10:49] Quickly, before I let you go, Congressman Fitzpatrick, you're a big supporter of Ukraine. [10:52] You did get some additional support for additional assistance when it comes to the House. [10:59] This is like a vote on authorizing new security aid and imposing new sanctions on Russia. [11:05] Even after the House votes, we're hearing in the Senate from Leader Thun, he's got no [11:09] time to take it up. [11:11] What do you do next? [11:12] We're going to do everything we can, Margaret, to make sure they find time to take it up because [11:18] the heroes that are on the front lines of the Ukrainian military in Kharkiv and everywhere [11:25] else along the eastern coast of Ukraine need our help. [11:29] They need the morale boost. [11:30] I've been there on the front lines several times. [11:33] I've pledged my unequivocal support for them. [11:36] We reached 218 signatures, as you know, this week on a massive, massive discharge petition [11:41] that is far greater than even just Russia sanctions. [11:44] That's a big piece of it, but it's an overall aid package to Ukraine. [11:47] So my message to our Ukrainian friends, help is on the way. [11:50] All right. [11:51] Gentlemen, thank you for speaking to us in this bipartisan setting. [11:54] Appreciate it. [11:55] We'll be right back. [11:58] On Friday, we traveled to William & Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, to speak with former [12:01] Defense Secretary Robert Gates. [12:03] And we began with that warning from President Xi that the issue of Taiwan could lead to an [12:08] extremely dangerous situation, if not managed carefully. [12:13] The U.S. still officially has this stance of strategic ambiguity. [12:18] But do you think the tone needs to shift a little bit from the United States, given how [12:23] strong the Chinese rhetoric is now? [12:26] I think the Chinese rhetoric has often been strong in the past when it comes to Taiwan. [12:31] Whenever we've made an arms sales to Taiwan in the past, the Bush administration, the Obama [12:37] administration, and so on, the Chinese rhetoric gets very, very strong. [12:42] So I think Xi was reiterating the Chinese position on that. [12:48] I think it would be a mistake to change the carefully worded position of the United States [12:55] with respect to Taiwan, any change at all, the nuances. [13:00] This is one of those things where the experts parse these things down to the tense of the [13:05] verbs and so on. [13:06] So I think keeping things in the U.S. position as it has been was important. [13:13] And I think everything I've read so far indicates that the president did that. [13:18] So leave it open to question whether the U.S. would militarily come to the defense of Taiwan [13:22] if China were to move on it. [13:24] Yes. [13:25] That needs to be an open question. [13:26] Well, on paper, the president has made significant pledges to Taiwan in terms of promised arms sales, [13:33] not delivered on yet. [13:35] There's another $14 billion in proposed weapons sales that the Trump administration has delayed [13:41] approving. [13:43] Do you think the president should greenlight that? [13:46] I think he should. [13:48] I think we should go forward with what we've agreed with Taiwan. [13:52] One of the concerns that I have is even with respect to previous arms sales, there is a huge [13:58] backlog of weapons that we have sold to Taiwan that we have not been able to deliver because [14:07] we don't have the supplies. [14:10] And so if you're offering another $14 billion, is that just going to be added to the backlog or [14:15] is there a way forward in terms of actually getting these weapons to the Taiwanese? [14:19] I think one of the, an important thing that has happened in recent years is getting the [14:27] Taiwanese to focus on purchasing the kinds of weapons that would be necessary to defend [14:34] themselves against a Chinese amphibious invasion. [14:37] And the Taiwanese legislature has just finally reached an agreement to fund the purchase of [14:46] these weapons. [14:47] So I think, I think we should go forward with it. [14:49] It is in our own way, our counter to President Xi's strong statement. [14:57] Yes, you have your position. [14:59] We have ours. [15:00] Secretary Rubio did tell another network though that his belief is that China's preference [15:05] is to have Taiwan willingly join the People's Republic. [15:09] Do you expect that to be the more likely scenario that there is sort of a slow strangulation of [15:17] Taiwanese democracy by the Communist Party? [15:21] I think the chances of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan are pretty low, particularly over the [15:28] next several years. [15:29] And partly because Xi has other, other options open to him that include, that involve far less [15:37] risk. [15:38] So they have surrounded Taiwan with ships and, and in the air, they have shown their ability [15:46] to close off maritime and air access to the island. [15:49] They could create a blockade or a quarantine around Taiwan anytime they wanted, what the Taiwanese [15:54] call an anaconda strategy, and, and it would strangle Taiwan over time. [16:01] I don't think they want to go in and attack Taiwan. [16:03] They don't want to destroy the very chip factories they want to take over. [16:08] So, and, and then there's, there's cyber, there are all kinds of pressures. [16:13] There isn't one single Chinese general or admiral today that has one day of combat experience. [16:19] The last time these guys fought was 1979 and the North Vietnamese, the Vietnamese gave him [16:25] a bloody nose. [16:26] He's fired, Xi has fired all these generals. [16:29] He's, there are now no generals left on the Central Military Commission that kind of oversees [16:35] the whole thing. [16:36] Let me ask you about what's happening in the Middle East. [16:40] The last time we spoke, last spring, we were just weeks away from that U.S.-Israeli strike [16:47] on the three nuclear sites in Iran. [16:50] You said at that time, it was May, when you were Defense Secretary, you were concerned that [16:55] a strike on the nuclear program would just buy time, a year or two, but it would not solve [17:01] the problem. [17:02] Do you still believe that? [17:03] I think the only way that we are likely to get the enriched uranium out of, out of Iran, [17:13] to bring about an end to their nuclear aspirations is through a negotiation. [17:20] Is it possible for the president of the United States to walk away and leave this for the [17:25] Israelis to settle? [17:26] No, I don't think he can walk away. [17:31] And no, I don't think the Israelis can settle it. [17:35] I don't think, as powerful as they are, they don't have the kind of power the United States [17:39] has. [17:42] And I think the president seems to have been very consistent, very clear, that under no [17:47] circumstances can Iran ever have a nuclear bomb. [17:50] Well, the only way you get to that objective is resolving this issue of the enriched uranium [17:58] and any future plans for enrichment. [18:02] I mean, I think, I don't think that the nuclear program in Iran poses an imminent threat. [18:10] After all, we bombed it twice. [18:12] But it is a big enough problem that it was clearly not going to be settled in four to [18:15] six weeks, which was the time stamp that the American people were told to expect in terms [18:19] of the duration of conflict. [18:21] I think that there were some unrealistic expectations. [18:25] Have you heard a clearly articulated sort of center of gravity to this operation, an end [18:31] goal, a strategy? [18:32] Well, I think some of the justifications have changed over time. [18:36] One thing, I think there have been a few things that have been consistent from the very beginning. [18:41] One is to eliminate Iran's ability to have a nuclear weapon. [18:48] Another is to eliminate their military capabilities to attack their neighbors. [18:56] Third is to eliminate the capability to support their surrogates, the Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis, [19:04] to sink their Navy. [19:07] I think those are all, those were, have all been articulated as objectives of this operation. [19:12] And although the nuclear program has been dramatically damaged and set back a long time, I think those [19:21] other things, a lot has been accomplished. [19:25] You were CIA director. [19:27] You were a defense secretary. [19:28] How do you assess Secretary Hegseth's performance? [19:32] I'm not into talking about my successors, but I will say I want to point to something positive [19:40] that I think is going on. [19:42] It goes back to something we were talking about earlier. [19:44] I think the leadership in the Pentagon, and especially the deputy secretary and the undersecretary [19:52] involved in acquisition, are doing some very important and overdue things in terms of shaking [19:58] up the bureaucracy in the Pentagon. [20:00] But he's got this focus on the warrior ethos. [20:03] I'm sure you've heard a lot of what he has announced. [20:07] He summoned the generals to D.C., told them he's tired of seeing fat troops and fat generals. [20:12] He wants to weigh them twice a year. [20:14] He ordered a ruthless review of the Judge Advocate Court, the military lawyers. [20:19] He fired most of the inspectors general, saying he planned to overhaul the weaponized internal [20:24] Pentagon watchdog. [20:27] When you're talking about the things you like, would you put any of these things on that list? [20:30] No. [20:32] I will say this. [20:33] I mean, I've fired a fair number of generals and senior people myself. [20:41] The way I handled it was a little differently in the respect that I felt that I needed to [20:45] go in front of the press and explain why I hadn't taken these actions. [20:49] Well, there's not a full Pentagon press corps even present at the Pentagon these days for [20:55] a news conference like that without getting special permission to be on the premises right [21:00] now. [21:01] You've fired 16 military officials at least, including the Navy Secretary, the Army Chief [21:07] of Staff, General Randy George. [21:09] During the Iran War, he pushed out the Admiral at the helm of SOUTHCOM, the Chief of Naval Operations, [21:15] the Air Force Vice Chief of Staff, the Head of Defense Intelligence. [21:19] Do you see those things as necessary disruption that ultimately will have a positive impact? [21:25] Or does it concern you? [21:26] Well, it concerns me, but I also have to acknowledge that I don't know the rationale for those changes. [21:34] I don't know why those changes were made. [21:37] And there may be perfectly justifiable reasons, but I just don't know what they are. [21:42] And you think that that should be explained to the public and to the Congress? [21:45] I think that people, when you have a lot of changes like that, yeah, I think there is [21:52] an obligation to explain, at a minimum to the Congress, the rationale. [21:58] The systems don't seem to be operating that way right now. [22:00] No. [22:02] Our full interview with Secretary Gates is available on our website, YouTube channel, [22:07] and our podcast. [22:08] We'll be right back. [22:09] That's it for us today. [22:12] Thank you all for watching. [22:13] For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.