Defendant Faces Hostile Cross-Examination: Jealous Husband Murder Trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Bringing you key testimony out of South Carolina in the murder trial of Bud Ackerman. [00:00:04] Speaker 2: He is on the stand testifying in his own defense. Prosecutors say he was jealous of his soon-to-be ex-wife's new love interest and purposely ran into him with his pickup truck, killing him in May of last year. [00:00:15] Speaker 1: Now, Ackerman says he absolutely did not intend for this to happen. He didn't go to that place looking to hurt anyone, just wanted to talk. Well, let's go back, and now he's ready for cross-examination by the state. [00:00:30] Speaker 3: Before you heard the sirens? Um, after. After you heard the sirens? Yeah, I believe so. And you testified just a minute ago that you called, excuse me. You knew someone had called 911? I did. How? I could hear the sirens coming down the road. And law enforcement responded there. How long after you ran into Davis did you hear the sirens? [00:01:02] Bud Ackerman: According to you, the data was roughly 30, 40 minutes, something like that. [00:01:06] Speaker 3: Okay. And during that 30 and 40 minutes, you didn't call 911? No, sir. You didn't call an ambulance? [00:01:11] Bud Ackerman: No, sir. [00:01:12] Speaker 3: You didn't stay at the scene? No, sir. You left? That's correct. Told your parents what happened? That's correct. Nobody called 911? No, sir. Nobody called for an ambulance? No, sir. But you said you were fixing to call 911 when you heard the sirens? That's correct. You actually were fixing to dial 911 and you heard the sirens? I was walking out the house. Why did you decide then after waiting 30 to 40 minutes you called 911 then? I didn't realize it was that long at the time. And you said that Mr. Swirling asked you, you were coming down driving, you were just going to talk to him on the side of his car? That's correct. At 35 miles an hour, you were going down there to talk to him on the side of the car? I wasn't aware of how fast I was going. You don't dispute it, do you? Not from the evidence, no. Okay. And you've been on that road before? Yes, sir. You knew it well? Not well, but I've been on it. You knew where you were meeting, right? Yes, sir. You knew there was a gate behind it? I did. Okay. You saw the car there, didn't you? I saw the headlights. You knew that was Davis' car? [00:02:15] Bud Ackerman: I didn't know it was his car. Who did you think it was? Well, I mean, the only person that was there was Dee Davis. [00:02:21] Speaker 3: Because you were on the phone with him when you were coming down there. Possibly. Well, not possibly. Excuse me, what's that? [00:02:30] Speaker ?: What was that? Of course. Yeah, just stop. Excuse me. Thank you. [00:02:44] Speaker 5: Did you have an objection? No. Pardon? Did you have an objection? No, no, no. Oh, you just need a minute. Okay. You good now? [00:02:52] Speaker 6: Judge, just to ask Mr. Meadows, I cannot hear the question, so if he could just maybe get near a mic. Okay. That's all I'd ask. [00:03:01] Speaker 5: All right. Watch it. I'll speak louder. Okay. Didn't move. I can't help. If you still can't hear him, then maybe he'll go to the mic. Yes, sir. [00:03:09] Speaker 3: You were on the phone with Davis as you were coming down Avid, weren't you? I'm not sure. Well, think about it a minute. You're on the phone with him coming down there, and you're talking about where you're going to meet, right? Yeah, I'm not sure. Well, didn't he tell you I'm already here? No, sir. You're coming down. You're meeting him. You know what car he's got, right? Yeah. And you don't know how fast you're going? I do not. What was your plan? The ride right by his door? Come up beside him. Yes, sir. Well, when were you going to slow down? When I got close to his vehicle. You were going to slam on brakes right there? If I needed to. You would agree that 35 miles an hour, if you were going down there, that's a lot of speed going down at a dead end right there. Wouldn't you agree with that? I would say so. You would say so. I want the record to be clear. Davis McClendon had nothing to do with your breakup with Meredith, did he? No, sir. Nothing. No, sir. And I want to say it one more time. He asked you three times. Nothing did it. No, sir. And Mr. Swirling asked you, you didn't want to break up. You did no act or anything to act for the divorce, but your action caused the separation, didn't it? [00:04:39] Speaker 6: Objection. The basis of divorce is improper to go into. The honor is already just improper. You're going to go even further in that? [00:04:47] Speaker 3: No, sir. [00:04:48] Speaker 5: He just implied that he didn't want the divorce. Without going into any specifics, I'll allow that question and then leave it at that. But I don't know if we got a response. I do. Repeat the question, Mr. [00:05:01] Speaker 3: Mayor. Just wanted to ask you, you didn't want to get divorced. You were legally separated. You took no action in the part of the legal separation, but your action was the part, the reason for the separation, wasn't it? It was a mix. You found out about their relationship on or about Davis and Meredith on or about April 28th, 29th. Is that fair? Somewhere in that range. And you said your initial conversation, he wasn't that upset, you weren't that upset, right? You said you weren't that upset then, initially? [00:05:44] Bud Ackerman: Not initially, no, sir. [00:05:45] Speaker 3: Okay, well, and you said that some texts back and forth, she quit texting you. Actually, y'all were texting back and forth right up through May 7th, you and Meredith, weren't you? Yeah. You were talking to her. It wasn't like she quit communicating with you? [00:05:59] Bud Ackerman: Yeah, over the phone, she said text only. [00:06:02] Speaker 3: Okay, so that's communication. Y'all were texting back and forth, weren't you? Yes, sir. Right up to this. Correct? Correct. Okay, so I thought you gave the implication you weren't communicating. She cut off all communication. You got texts coming right up to when Davis was killed with her. Correct? [00:06:19] Bud Ackerman: Correct. [00:06:21] Speaker 7: And one of them, on April 28th. You conveyed that to her, didn't you? I did. [00:06:35] Speaker 3: So you were angry about it on April 28th? I was. And then on April 29th... I can't find it. [00:06:50] Speaker ?: Keep going. [00:06:51] Speaker 3: I won't say his last name, but it's 29. Danny, what the hell is Davis thinking, man? I mean, what the hell, Danny? Response, I have no clue what you're talking about. Do you remember this? I do. He has been effing Meredith, expressing your anger to somebody else, correct? [00:07:26] Bud Ackerman: That's correct. [00:07:28] Speaker 3: He said, that's news to me. He said, I had my suspicions, but was confirmed by her. I can't believe he would do that to me. [00:07:39] Speaker 1: All right. Let's bring back in our guest with us, trial attorney Kelly Hyman. And Kelly, it's clear where the state is going, right? For them to get their conviction that this was an intentional murder, they really have to play up the anger part, the fact that he was angry. And those texts really pointed out. [00:07:55] Speaker 8: The intent is going to be key in this case, but also in regards to the text, why didn't his counsel bring it up during his direct cross-examination? I mean, those are bad facts. You have those facts. You bring it out. Otherwise, the jury thinks, why are you hiding this information? Why are now the defense counsel bringing that up? Bring all that stuff up in the beginning and show it to the jury, saying, hey, we're being honest with you, yes, he was upset. They were having this affair, but he didn't do it. He didn't have the intent to do it. [00:08:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, Kelly. And they could have done it in a way to also bring out, well, that was April 28th, 29th. When you first found out your passions are running high, did you feel that way on May 6th, 7th, when this happened? But we digress. Let me ask you this, because I'm shocked they didn't bring it out, too. Kelly, how do you think he's faring so far on cross-examination? [00:08:47] Speaker 8: He's getting very nervous. You could see that he's very upset. He appears at times like he's misspeaking. One of the questions asked about him when he was at the accident, how he saw the oil, but then it's supposed to be late at night. So then how did he see the oil at the accident? And then how long he waited? He's just getting very nervous. And potentially, it doesn't look good for the jury that he's not sure what happened and conflicting statements. [00:09:11] Speaker 1: Kelly, if we just go around with this idea that he did not have intent to kill this person, and we don't know if the lesser included will be given to this jury, but let's assume they are, because I think the facts fit it. Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another without malice. Could that be a charge this jury could settle on? [00:09:28] Speaker 8: That could be the definitely saying, well, he didn't have the specific intent to do it, but he was reckless in the way in which it happened, that they could find him guilty of that charge. [00:09:39] Speaker 2: I think that may be where a jury's more likely to go. Again, if they believe him, that's what they have to decide. Do they believe his version or not? Do you believe him? [00:09:48] Speaker 1: I don't, no. [00:09:49] Speaker 2: Okay. All right. We're going to see what the jury does. Thank you so much to Kelly Hyman for joining us this hour. All right, folks. [00:09:54] Speaker 1: Coming up, more testimony from defendant Bud Ackerman in the Jealous Husband Murder Trial. We're coming right back. Welcome back to Court TV Live. I'm Michael Aiello. [00:10:26] Speaker 2: And I'm Judge Ashley Wilcott. The defendant in the Jealous Husband Murder Trial is on the stand testifying in his own defense. William Bud Ackerman is accused of running over and killing Kenneth Davis McClendon, who was dating Ackerman's estranged wife at the time. [00:10:40] Speaker 1: Ackerman is still on the stand. He's now facing cross-examination. Let's get back into court. [00:10:47] Speaker 3: Exactly. You couldn't believe he'd do that to you. I've known him my whole life. You were angry, weren't you? I wasn't angry. I mean, I wasn't happy about it either. I don't know what to tell you, bud. Damn, I don't know either. It's just effed up. That's what you said, wasn't it? That's correct. Now, you remember this. I remember. And the malice train started rolling then on, didn't it? No, sir. What, did you get happier about it? I tried to hear you. Did you get happier about it after that? I tried to talk to Davis, I did. Mr. Swirlick asked you about you didn't, you weren't sure, or your legal separation, you weren't dating. And would you remember when. I'm not going anywhere else on that. [00:11:53] Speaker 5: There is no such thing. That's a term that is often used, and I agree that technically there is no such thing as a legal separation, but that's a common term that people use, and maybe some lawyers use, too. I apologize, I'll say separation. [00:12:12] Speaker 3: Mr. Swirlick asked you about your separation period. That's correct. And you weren't dating. No, sir. Do you remember when you checked out, what's Tinder? The dating app. Okay, do you remember when you checked that out? I do not. Are you disputing that you went to the Tinder website? I'm not. You're not disputing that? I'm not. Why would you have gone there? Just to see what the options were. See what your options were. So is it fair to say as of April 28th, April 29th, you were jealous? I wasn't jealous. How many kids does Davis have? [00:13:01] Bud Ackerman: Three. [00:13:02] Speaker 3: How old are they? [00:13:03] Bud Ackerman: I'm not sure. [00:13:10] Speaker 3: Y'all had no prior bad blood prior to this, ever. No. So just to go back briefly, when Mr. Swirling asked you that she cut off all contact, Meredith, that's a lie, because there was contact through text, correct? [00:13:44] Bud Ackerman: Well, he cut off contact, verbal contact. [00:13:55] Speaker 3: You had the kids this weekend, didn't you? I did. This weekend, it's okay. And when you got back from, I think, the fair, you said, or somewhere, with Bobby Stuckey? Yes, sir. You went to Key West. That's correct. And you've seen the video of yourself on there. I have. And you said you had a few beers. That's correct. Did you watch yourself go to the bar? [00:14:19] Bud Ackerman: I did. [00:14:19] Speaker 3: Would you dispute you had seven or eight beers? I would. You would dispute. How many did you have? A few. What's a few? Four. Did you see how many times you went to the bar? I did. Who's the person? Somebody bought you one also, right? That's correct. Who was that? [00:14:34] Bud Ackerman: Bob Thompson. Okay. [00:14:40] Speaker 3: And how many beers did you have prior to that? Two. And had you stopped at a convenience store and gotten a traveler or anything anywhere to the process? Got one, I'm sorry. A traveler. Did you have one with you to drive at any time during the day? No, sir. So how many beers did you have total that day? I don't know. You got no idea? Yeah, I have an idea. Just tell me. Six. Well, you're under the influence doing that? Any point during the day? No, sir. [00:15:15] Speaker ?: No, sir. [00:15:22] Speaker 5: Sure, take your time. [00:15:46] Speaker 3: When you left Key West? Where's the first place you went? Tally Ho. Okay. Why? To see if Mary's was on. You had already talked to her earlier in the day, correct? Or texted with her? Through text. Through text. So communicated with her, correct? Correct. And one of those prior communications was she had FaceTimed with the kids previously, hadn't she? That's correct. She was good at communicating with the kids, right? She was, wasn't she? That's correct. Okay. And did you text her, why do you hate me at 854-43? I did. Okay. Did you call her at 907? I did. Did you call her at 908? I did. She then texted you, sent evidence, who's calling me, right? That's correct. And you put the kids, right? I did. And that was a lie? That was. And then she called back, correct? That's correct. All right. And you said, or it's not the kids, or somebody said that, right? That's correct. And at that point, you knew she was with Davis McClendon. I did not. She told you she was with Davis McClendon. No, she didn't. Did you ask her? I did not. Why did you end up going out to break in the leg later? Because I knew she was at the break on the leg. How did you know that? During the video on the phone. But you dispute that you were told then she was with Davis. That's correct. You left Tally Ho. What specifically did you do with Tally Ho? Because you weren't living there then, correct? No. Okay. You knew she was out. I did. What did you do when you got there? I got out of the truck, knocking on the door. Got out, knocking on the door. Did you see your car there? I did. So she wasn't there. The car was there. What did that tell you? She was out with somebody else. Okay. She was out with somebody else. Where did you go after you left Tally Ho? Towards the lake. Excuse me? Towards the lake. Okay. I agree with that. Where did you go? You told Mr. Swirling you went to break at the lake. That's correct. Well, you left out somewhere, didn't you? Lakeshore Drive. Yes, sir. You didn't tell him that, did you? I just skipped my mind. Just skipped your mind. Well, guess who lives on Lakeshore Drive. Do you know? Davis McClendon. Davis McClendon. You didn't say that a minute ago, did you? No, sir. Why did you go to Lakeshore Drive? You said you didn't even know she was with him. I didn't. Why did you go there? Because I was assuming that she was with him. And you went to Lakeshore Drive, Mr. Ackerman, 12-30-8. Do you dispute that? That's where the records show. And prior to that, between there and who's calling me, the kids? You called Meredith at 12-16-58. Do you dispute that? That's where it shows. 12-17-46? [00:19:19] Bud Ackerman: That's where it shows. [00:19:20] Speaker 3: 12-17-59? Is that a yes? That's a yes. 12-18-34? Yes. You remember seeing Abby at Abigail Mojare at Key West? I do. Okay. You didn't really know her, did you? I did not. Okay. And the first thing you went up to her and said, where's your girl, right? Yes, sir. You're talking about Meredith? That's correct. And you saw your own hair and your back and forth and she kind of takes off real quick? Yes. You bothered her, didn't you? About the kids. You said something she took off. Yeah, it was about my kids. [00:19:59] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:19:59] Speaker 3: And you were drinking? Yes, sir. You were upset? I wasn't upset. All right, now, you're back at the Lakeshore. How long did you stay at Davis' house? I didn't go to Davis' house. Excuse me. You didn't. Yes, you did. I did not go to his house. Lakeshore? Who lives on Lakeshore? That's not his house, sir. Well, why'd you go there? You just said that's where he stays. I knew he lived down there somewhere. [00:20:24] Bud Ackerman: I didn't know which house he lived in. Okay. Well, why did you go to Lakeshore? I was just driving down there to see if I saw a car. Saw whose car? Whoever's car. [00:20:33] Speaker 3: Well, what does that mean? [00:20:34] Bud Ackerman: I didn't even know what house he lived in. But you got in the right street? I got in the right street because my son told me that. [00:20:41] Speaker 3: That he lived there? [00:20:41] Bud Ackerman: Yes, sir. [00:20:42] Speaker 3: So that's why you were going to Lakeshore? That's correct. How long did you stay at that residence you thought was his? [00:20:47] Bud Ackerman: I didn't go to a residence. I turned around and backed up. And then where'd you go? To the break on the lake. Why'd you go there? Just to check and make sure that nobody was there, that Maris wasn't there. Just say it again. [00:21:01] Speaker 3: To check and make sure Maris wasn't there. Because Maris had told you actually initially she was out of town, didn't she? She did. And then she told you she was out at Port Grill, didn't she? She told me she was out at Port Grill, yes. And that's the direction you were going out there looking for her, weren't you? That's correct. But you went to Lakeshore first, didn't you? I did. You actually, at 1238 after Lakeshore, you called her, didn't you? That's what it shows. And you knew then she was with Davis, didn't you? Not at that time. You didn't know then? No, sir. You told her then you wanted to talk to Davis, didn't you? No, sir. You told her at some point that night you wanted to speak to Davis, didn't you? No, sir. You wanted to see him, didn't you? No, sir. You deny all that? I did. You deny that you were drunk. I do. You heard her testify, but you deny that you were drunk. I do. Now, she knows you. Y'all were married. She's seen you when you're drinking, seen you when you're at, hadn't she? Yes, sir. And you've talked to her on the phone before when you were drinking, hadn't you? A couple of times. You've talked to her on the phone before when you were drunk, weren't you? [00:22:13] Speaker 6: Yeah, I object to that. Going in, I mean, it's just inappropriate. Putting character in evidence is going beyond the scope of this particular case. I just don't understand. [00:22:24] Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think the position Mr. Ackman has taken, he was not under influence that night. I think Meredith testified differently, so I think that's fair game to explore. [00:22:36] Speaker 6: But the terminology he's using, being drunk, I mean, I just have to object for that. I said, he's testifying. [00:22:42] Speaker 5: Well, I mean, being drunk is a normal term. We can all relate to that. So, I mean, he can use that term or use under the influence. [00:22:52] Speaker 3: I'll overrule. Have you been under the influence before when you've talked to Meredith? I had. On the phone also during the time you were dating and married? Yeah, I had. [00:23:01] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:23:06] Bud Ackerman: Can you see, sir? I can. [00:23:33] Speaker 3: Would you dispute this is 1240 approximately there around? I would not. And you had just talked to her for a minute and 39 seconds at 1238. That's correct. And this is when you thought she was out in this area, didn't you? That's correct. Because she told you she was. That's correct. She was trying to distance herself from you, wasn't she? She was trying to buy some time according to her testimony. She was trying to buy some time. That's correct. But you were looking for her. I was looking for her, yes, sir. And is this your truck going around? That is. How many times did you circle? Twice. Why did you circle it twice? [00:24:19] Bud Ackerman: I wanted to see what time they closed on the door. At 1240? No, I wanted to see what time the establishment closed from the hours on the door. At 1240? Did you think it was still open? No. I wanted to see what time it closed. I didn't know what time it closed. Why did you want to see that? Because I just wanted to know what time it closed. [00:24:36] Speaker 3: Just at 1240 at night, you want to see what time break it lay closed? [00:24:39] Bud Ackerman: Yeah, I mean, I'm saying the second time around. [00:24:44] Speaker 3: Were your lights on high or low bend? [00:24:46] Bud Ackerman: I'm not sure. [00:24:47] Speaker 3: You're not sure? I'm not. Okay. Do you usually drive with them on high or low bend? It just depends. And from Key West to Tally Ho to Lakeshore to here, you didn't hit any mailboxes on the way? I did not. And a lot of two-lane roads there, right? That's correct. Other cars coming your way? [00:25:06] Bud Ackerman: Yes, sir. [00:25:06] Speaker 3: Had lights on? Had lights on. Didn't hit any of them, did you? No, sir. Okay. Does the second one go around? Do you admit those are your lights? That's correct. And those lights help you see? They do. And you can see what's in front of you, right? Yes. You didn't hit any of the mediums there or the light post or anything? That's a well-lit parking lot. Okay. So the answer is yes. You can see. Okay. Does your bright lights coming on? I don't know. You don't know if those are your... Okay. Back it up. After you had checked, what time did it close? You said you went and checked. Nine. Nine? Had you been there before? Once. Once before. One time. Before. Okay. Were you planning on seeing... Were you planning on going in the future? No, sir. Where did you go after this, Mr. Jackson? To the port bar and grill. To the port bar and grill. That's where Meredith had told you she was, right? That's correct. So you're still looking for her? Yes, sir. [00:26:35] Speaker 1: Your testimony. [00:26:35] Speaker ?: Your testimony. [00:26:35] Speaker 1: It's interesting, Judge. They keep playing that video. He went around that parking lot twice. But they keep playing it. And I would have objected if I was his attorney because it almost makes it look like he's like a tiger pacing back and forth in that because it looks like he's going around and around and around and around. So it's interesting, you know, that that action and how this jury might interpret just all of his actions leading up to the interaction with the victim in this case. [00:27:03] Speaker 2: But I also think it's the presentation, a few lack of objections as to what counsel's doing and asking adds to the story being put forth by the prosecution to see if the jury will agree with that. All right. We need to take a break. When we come back, the prosecutor presses Ackerman about searching for Meredith and following her to a bar. Keep it here on your front row seat to justice. [00:27:25] Speaker 9: Tonight on Closing Arguments, a music mogul now faces federal sex trafficking and racketeering charges. We have the very latest in the case against Sean Diddy Combs. 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[00:30:00] Speaker 1: Welcome back, folks. We're continuing our coverage in the jealous husband murder trial in South Carolina. Defendant William Bud Ackerman is on the stand testifying in his own defense. [00:30:09] Speaker 2: He is still on cross-examination by the state and things have gotten pretty tense. They've got the momentum going. Let's get you back into court. [00:30:17] Speaker 3: It's a bar and grill. What do you do there? Drink and eat. Okay. And what did you do there when you went there that night, my mistake? [00:30:28] Bud Ackerman: I got out of the truck and people were coming out the door when it was closing, so I turned around and got back in the truck. Got out of your truck. [00:30:36] Speaker 3: Because that, your truck tells us when you got out. You know that. Yeah, that's what it said. But back then when this happened, you didn't know that, did you? Didn't know what? That the truck recorded everything you did? No, I mean, I... Did you know that? Yeah, I mean, I knew a lot about it. Is that a yes or no? Did you know? That's a yes. So you knew the truck was recording everything? I knew it recorded a lot of information. Okay. When did you learn that? [00:31:00] Bud Ackerman: I was in the body shop business for 17 years. Okay. [00:31:02] Speaker 3: So you knew this truck was recording everything you were doing? [00:31:04] Bud Ackerman: Mm-hmm. GPS and all. [00:31:07] Speaker 3: And you left Port Grill. How long were you there? [00:31:11] Bud Ackerman: Roughly 30 seconds. [00:31:12] Speaker 3: Would you dispute six minutes? That's what it says. Hold back, 43. 12.43 to 12.49. That's what it shows. Six minutes. What did you do between those six minutes? I guess I just sat in the truck. [00:31:38] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:31:38] Speaker 3: And did you also call Meredith at 12.49? 12.45? If that's what it shows. 12.45, 24. 12.45, 11. 12.45, 24. 12.48, 33. Sorry. 12.48, 42. If that's what it shows. She wasn't there. She sat in the parking lot and started calling, right? I guess so. Right. And then you leave at 12.49. Do you dispute that? I do not. Where'd you go then? Back to my parents' house, towards that direction. And were you making phone calls also? Davis was calling me. Well, before that, you left Port Grill. You called Meredith at 12.49.06? Yes, sir. 12.49, 28. Yes, sir. That's why you're driving. [00:32:24] Bud Ackerman: Yes, sir. [00:32:24] Speaker 3: Driving on the phone. Didn't hit anything. Mm-hmm. 12.49, 46. That's what it shows. 12.50, 25. They're coming right out of the records. That's right. And your testimony at this point, you still didn't know she was with Davis. I did not. Did you see his car at Lakeshore or wherever you thought he was at Lakeshore? I didn't know what he drove. You didn't know what he drove? I did not. I did not. At some point, when did you receive the call from Davis? I'm not sure of the time. And at that point, y'all initially agreed to meet at 1714, right? That's correct. But later, I think it was misstated somewhere in his trial earlier. Actually, it was Davis who called back. That's correct. Because the children were there. That's why it was changed, right? That's correct. You didn't do that. I didn't do that. And you said he had gone from angry, now he was calm, right? On which phone call? Well, you tell me. Tell me again. On the second phone call. He was fine? Yes, sir. And you agreed to talk to him? I did. [00:33:54] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:33:55] Speaker 3: And so at that point, you knew he was with Meredith? I did. Okay. He told you he knew you had been calling, right? That's correct. He was, you had been calling on all these calls we talked about, right? That's correct. And who was Brandon Smith? [00:34:12] Bud Ackerman: My cousin. Yeah. [00:34:13] Speaker 3: He'd actually reached out to Brandon Smith, hadn't he? [00:34:16] Speaker 5: He did? Yes, sir. Do you know what I have to do about that? Sure. That's previously noted on the record. [00:34:21] Speaker 3: But Meredith had told you she was going to call the police because you were driving around drinking and she was worried about you, wasn't she? I wasn't driving around and drinking. But that's what she told you. She was going to call the police. You don't remember that? She did tell me she was going to call the police. And Davis talked her out of it. He doesn't know that. Okay. [00:34:38] Speaker 6: How's he supposed to know that? [00:34:40] Speaker 3: Were you aware of the text? I'm sorry. Were you aware of the text? Were you aware of the text that Davis sent Brandon? I am. [00:34:47] Speaker 6: How do you know about that guy? That's misleading. [00:34:51] Speaker 5: Well, you can ask him if he knew about it, and if so, when did he learn about it? [00:34:56] Bud Ackerman: In the discovery. [00:35:00] Speaker 3: The police weren't called on you, were they? [00:35:02] Bud Ackerman: They were not. [00:35:11] Speaker 3: And, Mayor, they tried to call some of your family, didn't you? As far as I know now. [00:35:16] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:35:17] Speaker 3: Your daddy? As far as I know, yes, ma'am. If they're in the tolls, do you dispute it? No. Okay. Your mama? That's correct. Wilson? That's correct. Is that a family member? That is. B2? That's my cousin, Brian. So she was reaching out to your family, right? That's correct. [00:35:38] Speaker 2: Here now with us in studio to discuss is criminal defense attorney Robin Nunn. Robin, always great to have you on. Thank you for being with us. As soon as cross-examination started and this defendant said, no, I wasn't jealous on April 28th, 29th, when he found out that his wife was seeing the victim in this case, he kind of lost me. How do you think he's doing on cross? [00:35:58] Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's, this has been quite an interesting cross-examination. I knew after the direct examination that this was going to be exciting. It's obviously highly unusual for a defendant to take the stand and testify in a case such as this, so I was prepared for there to be a pretty vigorous and enlightening cross-examination, but this one really takes the cake. What has come out in his testimony, maybe because of the time that has passed, maybe he doesn't quite remember, but some of the things that he's, positions he's taking, just quite frankly, don't make sense. [00:36:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, and jurors are told when they get their instructions that you can believe some, you can believe all of the testimony, you can say this part of the testimony didn't make sense, so you just throw out all the rest. And that goes to what you're saying, he said, I wasn't jealous and I wasn't upset. I think the only way for him to get away with this is to own that aspect of it, because nobody is going to believe in what the state is doing a fantastic job of, is showing just how obsessed and upset and jealous he was. [00:37:03] Speaker 15: I agree. Without any emotion, without any sort of feelings being involved, he admitted in direct that he was, quote-unquote, scared of the victim, which made sense and allowed some very good testimony to get into this case. My problem is now is the cross-examination is really breaking down. There have not been enough objections by the defense counsel, the judge and the defense counsel and the prosecution seem to be having conversations instead of putting things on the record that will hopefully preserve his right to appeal. I think that this cross-examination is going very poorly, quite frankly, for the defendant. [00:37:40] Speaker 1: It's a little messy. Yeah, you always have to wait for the cross, right? People look good on direct, see if they hold up on cross. I don't think he's holding up that well as of right now. All right, we do need to step aside here, folks. When we come back, the cross-examination of William Bud Ackerman continues on the state, with the state, and they question him about a conversation that he had with the victim before the killing. Important stuff. Keep it here on Court TV, your front row seats of justice. Welcome back to Court TV Live. I'm Ashley Wilcott. And I'm Michael Ayala. We are continuing our coverage in the jealous husband murder trial of William Bud Ackerman in South Carolina. Now, he's accused of running over and killing Kenneth Davis McClendon, who was dating Ackerman's estranged wife. [00:38:22] Speaker 2: Ackerman is on the stand on cross-examination by the state, so let's get back inside the courtroom. [00:38:29] Speaker 3: And after the location had been changed, right? And at that point, you said your testimony today is that his demeanor changed, right? That's correct. Where were you? I mean, in proximity to 714. Where were you then? In your truck. Where were you? I'm not sure of the exact location. But your truck knows where you were. The truck knows where I'm at. And there's a phone call between you and... You go to your... Davis calls Bud at 1259. You don't dispute that, right? No. And you then drive down River Run at 106. Do you dispute that? I didn't drive down River Run. I'm back into River Run. Okay. And that was at 106? That's correct. And 107, you drove down Avid. You remember that? I didn't... You talking about going to meet Davis? No, sir. I'm talking about prior to that. At 107, you drive down a little bit of Avid, your truck shows. You remember that? Yes, sir. Why'd you do that? Just because I was supposed to go meet him there. Okay. And at 107, he was already down at the bottom of the hill, wasn't he? Well, I don't know. I didn't see him down there. I just turned around. So you don't know if he was down there or not? I'm not sure. Okay. Well, why'd you go down there? Well, that's where we had talked about meeting. Okay. Why didn't you keep on going down there? Because I was doing that to my parents' house. What made you change your mind when you were already Avid at 107? Because it just wasn't worth it. So you go down there initially. You decide before you see where his car is there or not that it wasn't worth it. [00:40:25] Bud Ackerman: That's correct. [00:40:25] Speaker 3: And you go back to, you just go back to your driveway and sit, don't you? Go back and sit in the yard. Just sit in the yard. You don't even pull all the way down. I did not. You kind of pull watching River Old Abbeville Highway, aren't you? I'm backed up into my parents' yard. Why didn't you go on inside? [00:40:42] Bud Ackerman: Because I was just sitting there just going through what I was going to do if I was going to call Davis and tell him that I wasn't coming or whether I wasn't. [00:40:56] Speaker 3: But then you call him. That's correct. He's on hold with Meredith. Did you know that? He's talking to phone with Meredith. I did not know that at the time, no sir. Puts her on hold and talks to you at 109-110, right? That's what it shows. And you're sitting, backed up, in your parents' driveway? That's correct. Okay. Thinking about what you're going to do? Thinking about whether I was going to call him or not. Okay. Well, you did. I did. And you'd already been to Avid once, and you're telling the jury you don't know if he was already down there then? That's correct. So he was already down there, you know now, don't you? Yeah, I know him now. Based on Terry Cummings' thing, he got down about 101, didn't he? Yeah, that's correct. Sitting down there, talking to Meredith, puts her on hold, and then you call in. At 109, Davis gets a call from Bud. You dispute, you called him at 109. I do not. And that was 109-10, and at 110-42nd, you leave your parents' residence. You remember that? I don't want to dispute it. Okay. And then you go down in the Hunters Creek, right? You go down to Avid. Tell these folks you're still on the phone with Davis when you're going down Avid Road. [00:42:09] Bud Ackerman: Yes, sir. [00:42:10] Speaker 3: You know he's there. [00:42:11] Bud Ackerman: I know he's there now. [00:42:13] Speaker 3: You knew he was there. You're on the phone then. I said, I knew he was there now. When we were there, that night, that morning. That's correct. Okay. And you're coming down, you see some headlights. I do. You knew that was him, didn't you? I knew it was his vehicle, yes, sir. And you're going down there at 35 miles an hour. [00:42:28] Bud Ackerman: Yes, sir. That's what it shows. [00:42:29] Speaker 3: That's what it shows. And you're on the phone with him, right? Yep. And you're going to talk, right? That's correct. And he didn't have a chance to talk our fight, did he? Did he? No, sir. At 35 miles an hour, you're going down to Avid Sawgrass to talk to him by the window at 35 miles an hour. I wasn't aware of my speed. Your foot was on that gas, brother. [00:43:02] Speaker ?: Wasn't it? [00:43:03] Bud Ackerman: That's what it shows. [00:43:11] Speaker 3: Did you say, I'm here, I see you? He said, okay, I see you. And he got out of the car and he didn't get a chance to move a foot and you took him out, didn't you? No, sir. He wasn't in the middle of the road. Yes, sir, he was. So when did you see him? And I got to the front of his BMW, to the front of his car. Wait, wait, wait, that quick? That quick. And then, so you did see him? [00:43:33] Bud Ackerman: I did. I did see him that quick. [00:43:35] Speaker 3: And then you saw his shirt? I saw his body. Why didn't you go right? I went left. I know, into him. Into the car. You went straight into him, didn't you? I went left into the vehicle. He was still, it's just, you were still, the phones are still connected, weren't they? I'm not aware. What's the last word you said to him? I'm not aware. You don't remember the last word you said to the man that you ran over? [00:44:04] Bud Ackerman: I'm not aware, sir. [00:44:09] Speaker 3: Were you mad then? No, sir. Were you angry then? No, sir. So, when did you see him with his shirt off? Right before I struck his vehicle. So that couldn't have made you mad then, right? If you just saw it right before that. I wasn't mad. [00:44:22] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:44:22] Speaker 3: So that didn't bother you. His shirt was off. That got nothing to do with this then, does it? [00:44:26] Bud Ackerman: Not really. [00:44:27] Speaker 3: It doesn't at all? No. [00:44:28] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:44:38] Speaker 3: You didn't hit the brakes before you hit him, did you? I didn't have time. You didn't have time to hit the brakes? Not in that quick moment. Okay. Before you got to the intersection of Sawgrass and Avid, when you were going to meet them, you know that wasn't far back to that reflective gate, didn't you? You know that's not far. Yes, sir. I'm aware there. And coming down there to meet somebody at 35, that is reckless, isn't it? [00:45:01] Speaker 6: Objection-proof. Making a definition. [00:45:03] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:45:04] Speaker 6: Is that your phrase? Okay. [00:45:06] Speaker 3: And let me go back before I do that. You had moved into the left lane, hadn't you? I did. Why did you move into the left lane? [00:45:12] Bud Ackerman: How are you going to pull up beside somebody and talk to them? [00:45:14] Speaker 3: Left lane, pulling up beside them at 35 miles an hour. So you were in the wrong lane. Ain't no question about that. Tell them you were in the wrong lane, weren't you? No, I changed lanes. You were in the wrong lane. [00:45:24] Bud Ackerman: That's correct. [00:45:26] Speaker 3: Heading toward him. Heading toward his car. 35 miles an hour. No brakes because you didn't have time. And then you hit him. You don't dispute that, do you? That was you in that truck that hit him. I dispute that I hit him on purpose. That's correct. Then you slammed on brake afterward, didn't you? I don't remember. [00:45:50] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:45:51] Speaker 3: Your car ended up where it was, right? That's correct. Oil leaking? [00:45:55] Speaker 7: Mm-hmm. [00:45:56] Speaker 3: You weren't counting on that, didn't it, were you? You're oil leaking. Well, I wasn't counting on any of this. I mean, that's a nice truck you got. I mean, it's an expensive truck. [00:46:06] Speaker 6: Objection. We're just characterizing things like that. That's argumentative. [00:46:11] Speaker 3: You know, in all due respect, he asked how much the repairs would be on a BMW earlier in the trial. And I was just trying to, that's where I went through my mind. [00:46:17] Speaker 5: I'm sorry. What's in the car? [00:46:19] Speaker 3: It's BMW's expensive. [00:46:20] Speaker 5: All right. I sustained the objection. [00:46:30] Speaker 2: After you hit... Stand by. We do need to take another break. When the cross resumes, the state questions Ackerman about what he did after he hit the victim. Keep it here on your front row seat to justice. [00:46:46] Speaker 9: Sarah Boone is charged with second-degree murder after her boyfriend suffocated inside of a suitcase. [00:46:52] Speaker 5: He's in the suitcase still. [00:46:54] Speaker 2: There are multiple domestic violence incidents. [00:46:57] Speaker 5: You two hitting each other. Sarah. That's my name. DeWarda. [00:47:01] Speaker 9: He told you, Sarah, I can't breathe. George Torres locked inside of the suitcase begging for help. [00:47:08] Speaker 5: I thought he was okay. [00:47:09] Speaker 10: The suitcase murder trial. Live coverage starting Monday morning, 8, 7 central on Court TV. [00:47:16] Speaker 2: We want to get you right back into court in the jealous husband murder trial as the prosecutor continues questioning the defendant, William Bud Ackerman, about what he did after he hit the victim with his truck. [00:47:33] Speaker 3: Get out of the truck. And your car shows that, doesn't it? [00:47:39] Bud Ackerman: Yes, sir. [00:47:40] Speaker 3: And how long were you out? By the diagram of the times of roughly a minute. Do you remember right now that minute when you're out? I do. Can you visualize it? Unfortunately, yes. Can you hear yourself? I can hear myself hollering. Okay. And you went down now and you said you touched his face? I did. His face was bleeding, wasn't it? It was. Nose, mouth, blood coming out of his ears? That's correct. Was he gasping for breath then? No, sir. Was he breathing at all? Not that I was aware of. Did you think about calling 911 then? I panicked. You panicked? Mm-hmm. He was more than panicked, wasn't he? Mm-hmm. He's bleeding, gasping. [00:48:25] Speaker 6: George, could we spread our food back a little bit? I mean, it's just fear. I get right to witness his face. I'm sorry. Sorry. [00:48:34] Speaker 3: Bleeding? He wasn't saying anything to you, was he? No, sir. I mean, he was out. That's correct. Didn't call 911? No, sir. He reached down. Where did you touch him on his face? Where? Yeah. On his cheek area. Show me. Where? So you were just patting him. Why were you doing that? Trying to get him to come to you. You didn't come to you. And he didn't? That's correct. And then you left? That's correct. Okay. Why did you leave? I didn't know what to do. I'd never been out of position. You didn't know Roderick and Sita had a ring camera, did you? On Avid Road. I did not. You didn't know Terry Cummins had a camera, did you? I did not. You actually out there that night thought you were all alone, didn't you? I didn't suggest that location. I'm not suggesting that. But at this point, at this time, when you're out there by the car, you didn't think anybody else was going to see or hear what you did, did you? [00:49:24] Bud Ackerman: I'm not aware. [00:49:27] Speaker 3: Is that a no? No. No. And when he had, you say now, when he had called you an F-ing P earlier, that didn't make you mad? No. You're out of your car. You've touched his face. So is that how you got your blood on your pants? Excuse me? I'm sure. You're sure of that? [00:50:05] Bud Ackerman: I mean, I would say so. [00:50:07] Speaker 3: Okay. Well, there was blood on the front of your hood where he put his face went in, wasn't it? I'm not sure. Okay. Well, did you wipe that off later? I did not. Okay. I think your expert had testified he had seen there might be blood spatter. Did you say it? I did not. [00:50:20] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:50:21] Speaker 3: So you deny cleaning off? Objection. [00:50:23] Speaker 5: Well, I think he asked, he can ask what he did, even though that was an issue early on. But certainly, Mr. Mayors can ask him, and I think he's already denied it. [00:50:37] Speaker 3: Did you clean off any part of your truck? I did not. Okay. Did Davis hit the part of your hood with his face? I'm not sure. You don't know where you hit him? I did not. But you'd admit it's on the left side. If you're looking at your Ford, it'd be the right side of the Ford Emblem. It was on your side, wasn't it? It was, yes, to the left of the Ford Emblem. Okay. And it's kind of dead behind the steering wheel, isn't it? I'd have to sit in the truck to tell you that. You'd have to sit in the truck. Tell you. How were you sitting? Sitting in the truck. How were you sitting? How were you sitting? Just like I'm sitting now. And your testimony is you saw the truck. When did you first see the car? Coming down the hill. Yes, sir. That's what I said. Coming down the hill. Where, when you were coming down the hill? On Avid. Yeah, so where on Avid? You see the light's a long way away? I couldn't tell you. Okay. But you saw him at some point? I saw the car. Why didn't you just slow down and go to the right? I didn't realize I was going that fast. But you could have easily slowed down and gone to the right, couldn't you? [00:51:40] Bud Ackerman: Hind's height. I mean, you know, anything's possible. [00:51:45] Speaker 3: Tell these folks, when you got out, what did you say to Davis? I said, I'm not sure exactly what I said. I screamed a number of things. Can you tell us what it was? I'm not sure. You're not sure what you screamed? That's correct. Back course, no. [00:52:07] Speaker 14: Sure. [00:52:07] Speaker 1: Oh, bud. Bud, make it make sense to me, bud. Yeah, but it's not. It's falling apart there as far as I'm concerned. But let's bring in our guest with us, criminal defense attorney Robin Nunn is still with us. Robin, in my estimation, it's kind of falling apart. I think the state's doing a fantastic job of sort of giving a sense of what happened before and after that makes it easier to feel like there was some intent here. [00:52:47] Speaker 15: Fantastic job is a strong word. I think they're doing a decent job. I am having a little bit of trouble following where the prosecution is exactly going. We start off talking about Tinder and then we eventually move into this, are you angry, are you not angry? I think it goes without saying that he is angry. Unfortunately, he's not answering the questions in the ways that I think he necessarily should be based on the truth of the situation that was going on at the time. I think that this is a very frustrating cross-examination for me to watch. I'm actually finding a hard time staying contained and not jumping through the screen and shaking both the defense counsel, the prosecution, and the judge because I do feel like that it is so off the rails. At moments, it's boring. At other moments, it's intense. At other moments, it just doesn't even make sense. So a good job, decent job, proud by the prosecution, but I'm not excited about any of this. [00:53:35] Speaker 2: Well, I have to say the one thing I note is that this is the kind of cross-examination I feel like is done to try to trigger the defendant and get that defendant to get angry, to react, to be emotional. I don't think that's been successful. And so at the end of the day, I think Bud is really calm in his demeanor and delivery of what he says happened. [00:53:56] Speaker 15: I agree. I don't know if he has a stress ball underneath that chair or something, but he is unbelievably calm, and he is facing such grave consequences in this situation, and yet he's sort of just rolling through this cross-examination like he's talking about the weather or something like that. It's almost unbelievable. [00:54:14] Speaker 1: And so by unbelievable, so there's two ways you can take it. He's unbelievably calm, meaning in a good way, or unbelievably calm, that you can't believe he's that calm when he's talking about things like this. Which exactly do you mean? [00:54:26] Speaker 15: Yeah, I came in with an open mind. Obviously, you're innocent until proven guilty in the U.S., which is, I think, a very important hallmark of our justice system. However, I am having serious credibility issues and often body language, which is an indicator of how truthful someone is being. And while he is very calm and composed, I'm having a really, really tough time, given the circumstances, understanding how he can be delivering this really critical information [00:54:55] Speaker 2: Do you think at the end of the day, the state has proven beyond a reasonable doubt murder that he intentionally, deliberately killed this man with his truck? [00:55:06] Speaker 15: No, I think that intent really is important here. Again, I want to wait for redirect. I'm not going to make any decisions based on what I've heard now. But I do think that there are other levels that can be, you know, that could be in play here. Maybe manslaughter, maybe a different degree. I think that we need to first figure out what his mental state is and what was going on here. [00:55:26] Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, the facts that were being brought out in this cross-examination would have come out in closings, right? But it's so much worse when it's being brought out the way it is with him on the stage. [00:55:37] Speaker 2: You should have brought it out in direct. You don't hide your bad facts. You've got to get them out there. All right, unfortunately, we are out of time. Thank you so much to Robin Nunn for joining us. She'll be around the next hour as well. [00:55:47] Speaker 1: Also coming up in the next hour, a dramatic turn in the jealous husband murder trial. The defendant decides to tell the jury his side of the story. [00:55:56] Bud Ackerman: I got out of the vehicle and started screaming at Davis. I was hysterical, you know, I couldn't believe what happened. And I was trying to get a response, but he wouldn't respond to my screaming at him and hollering at him. So I got down and I touched his face two or three times to try to get him to come to. And then I saw the blood coming out of his ears and I just started panicking and freaked out. [00:56:19] Speaker 1: As the defendant takes the stand in his own defense. William Bud Ackerman is testifying in his own defense right now. He's facing murder charges for allegedly hitting and killing his estranged wife's boyfriend with his pickup truck. Well, the defense claims that Ackerman accidentally hit Kenneth Davis McClendon while the prosecution contends it was intentional. And they're doing a pretty good job of showing it here on cross-examination. Let's go back into court now where Ackerman is still on cross-examination. [00:56:49] Speaker 3: Your headlight's wrong, Craig, coming out of heaven. I'm sorry. Your headlight's wrong. That's correct. Were they high beams or low beams? I'm not sure. You're not sure. But you could see down the road, couldn't you? I could see to the headlights of this vehicle. You could see the reflection of the gate in the back? I'm not sure. You're not sure? That's correct. You could see the lights? I'm not sure. You're not sure if you see the street light? I'm not sure. How many times had you been down there before? Maybe a handful of times. You lived in that neighborhood, right? Yes, sir. He knew you were meeting him there? That's correct. Okay. To talk? To talk. [00:57:22] Speaker ?: Okay. To talk. [00:57:36] Speaker 3: Can you hear it? I can hear it. Those are your words, right? Yeah, I can't make out what I'm saying. Go back one more time. Before we start. That's you screaming? That's correct. Okay. Would you dispute that's an angry tone? [00:58:18] Bud Ackerman: I would dispute that's an upset tone, you know, kind of a hysteria. Hysteria? Yeah. Go ahead. [00:58:35] Speaker 7: Well, he's asking, did you hear that or did you say that? And he can give a response, yes or no, deny, whatever, admit it. I don't, do you remember saying that? [00:59:10] Speaker 6: No, there's no testimony to record that's what was said. The latter part of that comment. You know, there's in evidence, and I think I can ask him if he's. [00:59:19] Speaker 5: Sure, it's in evidence, and it's up to the jury to make the final decision on what was said, if anything. [00:59:25] Speaker 3: He was there to talk, wasn't it? That's correct. You were there to talk. [00:59:28] Speaker 7: That's correct. And do you remember? I'm not sure. You're not sure. That's correct. So you could have said that. I could have. [00:59:44] Speaker 6: I still have to object to him formulating what was said. There's no expert testimony about it. They could have done that. [00:59:57] Speaker 5: Well, I think the question was, Mr. Meadows, could you have said that? And I think Mr. Ackerman said he could have, so. [01:00:08] Speaker 3: Thank you. You didn't say, "How are you," did you? Did you? No, sir. You didn't say, "Are you okay," did you? No, I was screaming at the top of my lungs. You didn't say, "I didn't see you," did you? No, I see. And then you left, right? Yes, sir. And then you didn't call 911. You heard the sirens. You were fixing to it 30-something minutes later, 40 minutes later. I'm not sure. And then at 11:54-something, law enforcement showed up in your driveway. [01:00:50] Speaker 6: That's not accurate. [01:00:51] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. 11:54. Excuse me. Thank you. 154, I apologize. I apologize. Thank you. [01:01:00] Speaker 5: 154. [01:01:01] Speaker 3: And 154, law enforcement showed up in your driveway. Yeah, I'm not sure of the time. I'm pretty sure that's right, but it's in the record. So, 111, that's when you hit Davis McClendon, right? Yes, sir. 21, 31, 41, 51, 43 minutes later, law enforcement showed up in your driveway, right? [01:01:23] Bud Ackerman: That's correct. [01:01:23] Speaker 3: And between 111 to 143, you didn't call 9-1-1. I did not. You didn't call a doctor. [01:01:32] Bud Ackerman: I did not. [01:01:33] Speaker 3: You told a doctor, your mom and dad, what happened, right? That's correct. And from 111 to 143, you never told any of this between that time period, did you? You never told anybody of this between 111 and 154, did you? [01:01:47] Bud Ackerman: Told anybody what? [01:01:48] Speaker 3: But this didn't happen. You never told them about all this. Told my parents. And nobody called the hospital. I mean, from 111, and I'm about through, from 111, 34, you don't know if Davis is dead, do you? He wasn't breathing when I left. Okay. But you or anybody you told, y'all didn't reach out to get anybody to go down there and see if you could save his life, if he had been alive. [01:02:20] Bud Ackerman: The ambulance was already on the way. [01:02:50] Speaker 3: I mean, of course, don't judge. I'm sorry. [01:02:53] Speaker 7: I'm almost. [01:03:20] Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Judge. I'm holding through. AND YOUR FINAL DIVORCE HEARING WAS FOUR WEEKS AFTER THIS, WASN'T IT? I'M NOT SURE OF THE EXACT DAY. ARE YOU UPSET TAVIS IS DEAD? I AM. [01:04:10] Speaker 1: ALL RIGHT, THAT WRAPS UP THE CROSS. WE'LL HAVE TO REDIRECT IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT FIRST I WANT TO BRING IN MY GUESTS TO GET THEIR IMPRESSIONS. CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY ROBIN NUNN AND TRIAL ATTORNEY KELLY HYMAN AS WELL. KELLY, GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN. ROBIN, THANKS FOR STICKING AROUND. AND ROBIN, I'LL START WITH YOU. I WANT TO GET YOUR IMPRESSIONS OF WHAT JUST HAPPENED. YOU KNOW, IN CASES LIKE THIS, YOU GOT TO TAKE SMOKING GUNS WHERE YOU CAN GET THEM. I THINK THAT TAPE WAS AS CLOSE TO A SMOKING GUN AS YOU'RE GOING TO GET. [01:04:35] Speaker 15: YEAH, HE ADMITTED HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THE RING CAMERA WAS RECORDING ALL OF HIS ACTIONS THAT EVENING AND WHAT HE DID EXACTLY AFTER THE VICTIM WAS HIT. I THINK THAT THAT WAS KIND OF A "AH-HA" MOMENT AS YOU WOULD CALL IT. BECAUSE IT DID SHOW THE EXACT TIME LAPSE BETWEEN THE ACCIDENT AND, OR THE ACCIDENT, AND HIM ACTUALLY CALLING AND TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, GET HELP. [01:05:00] Speaker 1: YEAH, KELLY HYMAN, I MEAN, THE WORDS THAT HE USES WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIG ISSUE HERE IS INTENT. AND THEY BROUGHT OUT THE FACT THAT HE WAS GOING 35 MILES AN HOUR. HE ADMITTED SEEING THE CAR AND, RATHER THAN SLOW DOWN TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON, HE MAINTAINED HIS SPEED, CHANGE LANES INTO THE WRONG LANE, HE HITS HIM, THEN HE GETS OUT AND YELLS THIS AT THE GUY. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT? [01:05:20] Speaker 8: WHY WOULD HE TESTIFY? I DON'T KNOW. AN ATTORNEY CAN ADVISE THEIR CLIENT AND SAY WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO TESTIFY OR NOT. ULTIMATELY, IT'S HIS DECISION. BUT AN ATTORNEY MOST LIKELY ADVISED HIM, LOOK, THIS RING CAMERA IS COMING IN. THIS IS VERY DAMAGING TESTIMONY. YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE THE WITNESS STAND AND DO THIS. THIS COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CASE AND I BELIEVE IT DEFINITELY IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE JURY. [01:05:45] Speaker 1: YEAH, I BELIEVE SO TOO. ALL RIGHT.