Defendant Nicholas Kassotis: Cross-Examination — Dismembered Wife Murder Trial

[00:00:00] Speaker ?: *Clears* *Clears* *Clears* *Clears* *Clears* [00:00:58] Speaker 1: All right, everyone, please be seated. Counselor, you may cross-examine. [00:01:06] Speaker 2: Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, sir. [00:01:19] Speaker 3: Good afternoon. [00:01:24] Speaker 2: Mr. Kosotus, or Mr. Stark, you indicated that you were an officer in the Judge Advocate General Corps, correct? [00:01:37] Speaker 3: Yes, I was. [00:01:38] Speaker 2: And you were in that capacity for over 10 years, right? [00:01:41] Speaker 3: Roughly 10 years. [00:01:43] Speaker 2: You went to Boston University College? [00:01:46] Speaker 3: Yes, I did. [00:01:47] Speaker 2: You went to Northeastern Law for your JD? [00:01:51] Speaker 3: Yes, I did. [00:01:51] Speaker 2: And then you got your LLM in cybersecurity from Georgetown, correct? [00:01:56] Speaker 3: It was in national security with an emphasis in cybersecurity. [00:02:00] Speaker 2: Okay. All prestigious schools, right? [00:02:04] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:02:04] Speaker 2: You did very well in school, correct? [00:02:07] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:02:08] Speaker 2: And as a JAG officer, you indicated that you were both a defense attorney and a prosecutor during your term as an officer in the JAG? [00:02:18] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:02:20] Speaker 2: It would be fair to say that the Navy requires JAG officers to be very on top of your cases, right? Absolutely. To be careful with records, correct? [00:02:34] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:02:35] Speaker 2: To be careful with what you send to whom, correct? [00:02:38] Speaker 3: Absolutely. [00:02:39] Speaker 2: You check and double-check pretty much everything, right? [00:02:43] Speaker 3: Sometimes many more checks than that. [00:02:45] Speaker 2: You never looked at Jim McIntyre's credentials, right? [00:02:48] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:02:53] Speaker 2: Now, I just want to start with some of the things that we have in evidence. I'm showing you 2.26C. This is the photograph from Home Depot. That's you, right? [00:03:07] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:12] Speaker 2: That receipt that's attached to that from November 29th of 2022. That's also you, right? [00:03:25] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:26] Speaker 2: It says your name on the receipt, correct? [00:03:28] Speaker 3: I believe it does, yes. [00:03:31] Speaker 2: It also says that you bought the Milwaukee Smooth Blade Insulation Knife on November 29th of 2022 at 8.56 a.m., correct? [00:03:41] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:42] Speaker 2: And you saw the testimony from Special Agent Bernie with the FBI, correct? [00:03:47] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, I did. [00:03:48] Speaker 2: And that showed that your vehicle, your phone, and your business record put you in the vicinity of that Home Depot, correct? [00:04:00] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:01] Speaker 2: You don't dispute that, do you? [00:04:03] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:04:03] Speaker 2: And, in fact, you then watched as he showed all of the different waypoints of your vehicle traveling down towards Riceboro, correct? [00:04:12] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:13] Speaker 2: You don't dispute that that was your car, right? [00:04:15] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:04:16] Speaker 2: You don't dispute that that was your phone, right? [00:04:19] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:04:19] Speaker 2: And you don't dispute that that was you in the vehicle at the time? [00:04:24] Speaker 3: That is correct, ma'am. [00:04:26] Speaker 2: Okay. You saw the records introduced concerning the 2022 Ford Explorer purchased from J.C. Lewis, correct? [00:04:37] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:04:38] Speaker 2: And you, this is, I'm pointing to 1.19, do you recall seeing those business records introduced here in court? [00:04:44] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:45] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:04:46] Speaker 2: And you don't dispute that you bought that car, correct? [00:04:49] Speaker 3: I do not dispute that. [00:04:50] Speaker 2: You don't dispute you paid cash for it? [00:04:52] Speaker 3: It was a check, but yeah. [00:04:54] Speaker 2: It was the full amount. [00:04:55] Speaker 3: Conversationally, yeah, you're paying cash rather than financing. Yes, ma'am. [00:04:58] Speaker 2: Okay. And you bought that car under your own name, correct? [00:05:04] Speaker 3: Yes. And that purchase was, I believe it was July 27th of 2022. [00:05:17] Speaker 2: Right, correct? [00:05:19] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:05:20] Speaker 2: Okay. And when you bought that vehicle, that did not have a police intercept package on that vehicle, correct? [00:05:30] Speaker 3: I don't believe so. I'm not sure what a police intercept package is, though. [00:05:34] Speaker 2: Right. Because if it did, you would have paid extra for options, right? [00:05:42] Speaker 3: Right. I mean, there were options on there that I did pay extra for. I assume that anything else would have been also additional. [00:05:54] Speaker 2: Now, you also purchased 2.25 C. Not this specific kit, but one that looked just like it, correct? [00:06:19] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am. [00:06:21] Speaker 2: This was a seven-piece deer processing kit, correct? [00:06:26] Speaker 3: That's what it says, ma'am. [00:06:28] Speaker 2: Well, you saw the business records from Bass Pro, correct? [00:06:31] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:31] Speaker 2: And they indicated that you purchased that item. Is that right? [00:06:35] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:36] Speaker 2: You don't dispute that you did, correct? [00:06:38] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:06:38] Speaker 2: And it's your testimony in court here today that you are not a hunter, correct? [00:06:44] Speaker 3: That is correct. [00:06:46] Speaker 2: You were not going hunting on November 29th of 2022, correct? [00:06:51] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:06:51] Speaker 2: And just so we're clear, I'm going to show you States Exhibits 1.21, 1.22, 1.23, and 1.24. Do you recognize that car? [00:07:20] Speaker 3: It looks like the same make and model car that I had. [00:07:26] Speaker 2: And you don't dispute that you were down in a large wooded area on November 29th of 2022 at the time referenced in that photograph? [00:07:35] Speaker 3: I don't really recall where I was, ma'am, but... [00:07:40] Speaker 2: You don't recall where you were? [00:07:42] Speaker 3: Right. [00:07:42] Speaker 2: Okay. But just a moment ago, you said you didn't dispute that that was your path of travel that Agent Bernie displayed for the jury, correct? Correct, ma'am. Thank you. I'm publishing to the jury. Photographed 1.1... You saw Agent Sands testify, correct, concerning 1.117? [00:08:20] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:08:22] Speaker 2: This is a Marathon gas station, correct? [00:08:24] Speaker 3: I can't quite see it, but I believe so. Yes, ma'am. Yes, it is. [00:08:28] Speaker 2: And there's also a business record attached there, correct? [00:08:32] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:08:33] Speaker 2: That's from your Renaissance bank records, correct? [00:08:35] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am. [00:08:37] Speaker 2: That was your vehicle, your card, and you that was present at the vicinity of 13689 East Oglethorpe Highway, Midway, on November 29th of 2022, correct? [00:08:50] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am. [00:08:54] Speaker 2: Nobody else swiped your card, right? That was you. [00:08:56] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am, yes. I do not have any reason to believe that was not me. [00:09:00] Speaker 2: You didn't report your car stolen, right? [00:09:02] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:09:03] Speaker 2: Didn't report your phone stolen? [00:09:05] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:09:05] Speaker 2: Didn't report your wallet stolen? [00:09:07] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:09:08] Speaker 2: So all along, you've always had possession of those, correct? [00:09:12] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:09:13] Speaker 2: And it was your testimony that also you were told to turn your phone off, correct? [00:09:19] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:09:20] Speaker 2: And in fact, you saw Agent Bernie demonstrate the time gap of approximately two hours when your phone was off and still in the area of the Portal Hunting Club, correct? [00:09:32] Speaker 3: I'm not sure where the phone was during that time, because I believe it was turned off. [00:09:37] Speaker 2: What was with you, wasn't it? [00:09:39] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:09:40] Speaker 2: Okay. It was off, but on your person? [00:09:43] Speaker 3: Or in my car. [00:09:44] Speaker 2: Okay. And it's your testimony that you brought a black and a gray tote to that area, correct? [00:09:55] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:09:55] Speaker 2: Is it your testimony that's not your tote? [00:10:16] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, it is. [00:10:17] Speaker 2: That is your tote? [00:10:18] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. It is not. My testimony is that it is not my tote. [00:10:22] Speaker 2: So the other one, the gray one, that's also not your tote? [00:10:25] Speaker 3: I would call that the gray one, ma'am, but I believe that that is also not my tote. [00:10:34] Speaker 2: Just so we're clear. My apologies. These two totes are not your totes? [00:10:45] Speaker 3: That is correct. [00:10:46] Speaker 2: There are two random black and gray totes that showed up on November 29th of 2022 in the vicinity of the Portal Hunting Club, and they're not yours? Objection. Asked and answered. [00:10:57] Speaker 3: Overruled. I'm not sure when they turned up, ma'am, but they are not mine. I can explain why, if you would like. [00:11:07] Speaker 2: You know how the process works, Mr. Kosotus. [00:11:09] Speaker 3: Okay, ma'am. [00:11:16] Speaker 2: You heard the testimony that Mindy's blood was inside of those totes, correct? [00:11:20] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:11:22] Speaker 2: And you heard the testimony that there were cleansing wipes recovered in the vicinity, right? [00:11:27] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:11:29] Speaker 2: And also? The knife. [00:11:42] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:11:43] Speaker 2: So to your testimony, this is not the knife you purchased on November 29th, 2022 at Home Depot. [00:11:50] Speaker 3: That is definitively not the knife that I purchased at Home Depot. [00:11:53] Speaker 2: Did you see the cleansing wipes on the knife at the photographs at the crime scene? [00:11:58] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, I did. [00:11:59] Speaker 2: To your testimony, you didn't clean this knife off, right? [00:12:01] Speaker 3: That is correct, ma'am. I have never seen that knife before. It was introduced as evidence. [00:12:11] Speaker 2: This knife just happened to be there in the vicinity of the same black and gray colored totes that you referenced in your interview to law enforcement, correct? [00:12:18] Speaker 3: I don't believe it just happened to be there, ma'am, but it was there. [00:12:25] Speaker 2: And it was your testimony, correct me if I'm wrong, that you bought the deer processing kit to give to somebody as a gift? [00:12:32] Speaker 3: Yes, to Mindy's younger brother, Matthew. [00:12:34] Speaker 2: It was important to Mindy that you get him something he liked, right? [00:12:40] Speaker 3: I believe so, though I now have reason to question whether those messages were coming from Mindy or not. [00:12:47] Speaker 2: But you don't have any reason to say otherwise other than that you're guessing, correct? [00:12:51] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:12:55] Speaker 2: But something so important to Mindy, you just left it at the house when you moved out, right? [00:12:59] Speaker 3: I was extremely upset when I moved out and I left a lot of things there. [00:13:03] Speaker 2: So that was a yes, you left it at the house? [00:13:05] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:13:06] Speaker 2: You never gave it to Matthew? [00:13:07] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:13:17] Speaker 2: You heard testimony from Samantha, correct? [00:13:20] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:13:22] Speaker 2: And that was your third wife at the time, correct? [00:13:26] Speaker 3: At the time, yes, ma'am. [00:13:29] Speaker 2: You heard about the relationship leading up to you meeting her in person, right? [00:13:34] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:13:35] Speaker 2: And you started talking to her as early as late September 2022, correct? [00:13:40] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am. I'm not 100% sure, but that sounds right. [00:13:44] Speaker 2: Well, you saw the text messages, right? [00:13:45] Speaker 3: I didn't actually look at them that closely, but if they say late September, that would be correct. It was either late September or early October. I'm not 100% sure. [00:13:57] Speaker 2: Those messages were not sent by signal, correct? [00:14:01] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:14:03] Speaker 2: They were sent on social media, correct? [00:14:05] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:14:06] Speaker 2: Those messages were sent by you, correct? [00:14:08] Speaker 3: I believe so. [00:14:10] Speaker 2: Well, here. Let me give you two specifically to look at. 1.95 and 1.98. Let us know when you finish looking at them. [00:14:35] Speaker ?: Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish looking at them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. [00:15:06] Speaker 3: Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. [00:15:08] Speaker 2: Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. [00:15:23] Speaker 3: Let us know when you finish them. [00:15:24] Speaker 2: Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. Let us know when you finish them. [00:15:38] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:15:39] Speaker 2: But you initiated that relationship before she was dead. [00:15:43] Speaker 3: I wouldn't say initiated that relationship. But we were talking. Like I talked to many people online. [00:15:49] Speaker 2: Well you drove from Georgia to Missouri, correct? [00:15:54] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:15:55] Speaker 2: And then from Missouri to Pennsylvania to go see her, right? Yes ma'am. How many hours was that? [00:16:01] Speaker 3: Quite a few. I am not sure exactly. [00:16:03] Speaker 2: But you weren't just talking? [00:16:05] Speaker 3: No, at that point we were, you know, we had progressed into more of a relationship, but I'm saying that that wasn't how things had started in September. [00:16:16] Speaker 2: Right, but on December 16th, 15 days after you told your wife's parents she was dead, you drove to Pennsylvania from Missouri, correct? [00:16:27] Speaker 3: Fifteen days after I learned my wife was dead. [00:16:35] Speaker 2: October 22nd of 2022, you told your, you told Mrs. Kolesnik, or Ms. Kolesnik, on 1.95, she had an undiagnosed heart issue that was aggravated by her pregnancy, correct? Yes ma'am. Very sudden change in the way I thought life would look, but doing my best now to figure it out, right? [00:17:03] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:17:05] Speaker 2: You were tugging on her heart strings, weren't you? [00:17:08] Speaker 3: No ma'am. [00:17:09] Speaker 2: You weren't trying to convince her you were single and available? [00:17:12] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I was not. That was a very similar conversation to one I had with any number of people, male and female, friends. [00:17:25] Speaker 2: Right, because you had a conversation going on with Joy when you thought Mindy was going to die in COVID, correct? [00:17:30] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:17:31] Speaker 2: So that was another woman you were chatting with that you told this jury was a woman you had a relationship with. [00:17:38] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:17:39] Speaker 2: While you were still married? [00:17:40] Speaker 3: While I was still married ma'am. [00:17:42] Speaker 2: But this one wasn't? [00:17:43] Speaker 3: No ma'am. [00:17:44] Speaker 2: 1.98, you indicated on November 8th of 2022, while terrified for your life and staying in the house exclusively but to run errands. Going to spend this weekend in Virginia, then New York, Bedford, Hudson Valley area, then on to New England until after Thanksgiving. So hopefully going to spend a little time poking around and seeing how a few spots feel in terms of life there. That was not true. [00:18:16] Speaker 3: That was not true ma'am. [00:18:22] Speaker 2: You weren't trying to convince her to trust you? [00:18:26] Speaker 3: No ma'am. [00:18:30] Speaker 2: Why make that up? [00:18:31] Speaker 3: That was something we were regularly told to do. Say that we would be in different places and then if there was a concern, it would be somewhere that we weren't. [00:18:39] Speaker 2: So Jim told you what to say in each of your text messages to Samantha? [00:18:43] Speaker 3: Not in each, but it was something he would generally say, you know, tell people that you're going to be traveling for the next two weeks. And then if there was a concern, it would be somewhere else. After you found out that Mindy had passed, you testified to this jury you never got a single document of any sort from the doctors, correct? [00:19:03] Speaker ?: That is correct. That is correct. You just told this jury that you were a JAG officer, correct? [00:19:05] Speaker 2: For ten years. I was. You checked every detail, right? Yes. Verified everything, right? [00:19:10] Speaker ?: Yes ma'am. You didn't get a single document at any point in any of the time after her death? No ma'am, I did not. [00:19:11] Speaker 2: Death certificates. No ma'am, I did not. Death certificates. 1.68. They're registered with the state of Georgia. You're aware of that, right? [00:19:17] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I did not. [00:19:18] Speaker 2: Death certificates. 1.68. They're registered with the state of Georgia. [00:19:21] Speaker 3: You're aware of that, right? [00:19:22] Speaker 2: No ma'am, I did not. Death certificates. 1.68. [00:19:25] Speaker 3: They're registered with the state of Georgia. [00:19:26] Speaker 2: You're aware of that, right? No ma'am, I did not. Death certificates. [00:19:29] Speaker 3: 1.68. [00:19:30] Speaker 2: They're registered with the state of Georgia. You're aware of that, right? No ma'am, I did not. Death certificates. 1.68. They're registered with the state of Georgia. [00:19:36] Speaker 3: You're aware of that, right? No ma'am, I did not. [00:19:38] Speaker 2: Death certificates. 1.68. 1.68. They're registered with the state of Georgia. You're aware of that, right? [00:19:44] Speaker 3: I am. [00:19:46] Speaker 2: You never got a single copy of a document from a courthouse? [00:19:51] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I asked about it once and I should have followed up but I did not. [00:19:55] Speaker 2: You yourself as an attorney never got a single document? [00:19:59] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I didn't have any reason to have a document and so I failed to follow up on it. [00:20:04] Speaker 2: You were on trial for murder, correct? [00:20:08] Speaker 3: Correct? I was not. [00:20:10] Speaker 2: In anticipation of today, in your testimony, you knew you were on trial for murder, correct? Yes ma'am. And you didn't bring a single court document with you? [00:20:19] Speaker 3: Well ma'am, I believe the testimony is fairly clear that I was lied to about Mindy's death and that I did not have a document because there were no documents. [00:20:29] Speaker 2: You worked for APIS Security, correct? [00:20:31] Speaker 3: I believe so ma'am. [00:20:32] Speaker 2: No W-2, right? [00:20:34] Speaker 3: At some point I saw a W-2 but... [00:20:37] Speaker 2: But you didn't bring one? [00:20:39] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I believe there was one in Discovery but I don't recall. You do? [00:20:44] Speaker 2: You believe there was one in Discovery? I believe so ma'am. Can you tell us what document that was? I can't recall. [00:20:50] Speaker 3: I believe it was a tax document. [00:20:52] Speaker 2: Was there a W-4? I don't recall. [00:20:56] Speaker 3: I'm not sure what a W-4 is ma'am. An I-9? [00:20:59] Speaker 2: No ma'am. [00:21:00] Speaker 3: No tax documents? [00:21:01] Speaker 2: No. [00:21:02] Speaker 3: I-9's are for immigration, you know, proving that you're a citizen. So... [00:21:07] Speaker 2: No tax records. You got paid, right? [00:21:10] Speaker 3: It was paid into a trust ma'am. [00:21:12] Speaker 2: So you have zero records reflecting being paid by APIS Security, correct? [00:21:17] Speaker 3: Well I have the records that you provided to me during Discovery but... [00:21:21] Speaker 2: 1.84. You provided Samantha with an employment verification, correct? Yes ma'am. You indicated you worked for them February 12th, 2018 to present. That was January 12th of 2023, correct? [00:21:39] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:21:42] Speaker 2: You never got a single paycheck? [00:21:46] Speaker 3: Not paid to me, no. [00:21:48] Speaker 2: So for five years, you worked for a company and got zero money handed to you? [00:21:56] Speaker 3: Hand it to me, yes ma'am. [00:22:04] Speaker 2: You opened a bank account, correct? [00:22:07] Speaker 3: I've opened... Can you be more specific ma'am? [00:22:10] Speaker 2: You opened Renaissance Bank Account, correct? [00:22:13] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:22:14] Speaker 2: That was the account we saw the records for, ending in 141, right? [00:22:17] Speaker 3: I-I don't know the number but I believe so. [00:22:19] Speaker 2: You signed it, correct? [00:22:21] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:22:22] Speaker 2: You went into the bank, right? No ma'am. So that's not your physical signature on there? [00:22:27] Speaker 3: It is my physical signature, I believe it was scanned and emailed. [00:22:30] Speaker 2: It's your testimony you opened a bank account without going into the bank? [00:22:34] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. Okay. [00:22:36] Speaker 2: You provided Samantha with a driver's license, right? [00:22:44] Speaker ?: Uh, with the photograph of one, yes. 1.86. This is the license you sent her, correct? Yes ma'am. I'm showing the jury 1.111, which is the same photograph, correct? Yes ma'am. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:22:52] Speaker 2: You're aware that there are no records in the state of Georgia [00:22:54] Speaker ?: reflecting on the records. [00:22:54] Speaker 2: You provided Samantha with a driver's license, right? [00:22:58] Speaker 3: Uh, with the photograph of one, yes. [00:23:00] Speaker 2: 1.86. This is the license you sent her, correct? Yes ma'am. I'm showing the jury 1.111, which is the same photograph, correct? Yes ma'am. [00:23:14] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:23:15] Speaker 2: You're aware that there are no records in the state of Georgia reflecting a change of name to Stark? [00:23:23] Speaker 3: I'm aware of that now ma'am. [00:23:25] Speaker 2: Well you would have had to change your driver's license, right sir? [00:23:29] Speaker 3: Yes, I assume so. [00:23:31] Speaker 2: Delaware. This was issued January 13, 2023, 1.112. That's you, right? [00:23:56] Speaker 3: Yes it is ma'am. [00:23:57] Speaker 2: Is that a current picture of you? [00:24:00] Speaker 3: Yes, that was current at the time ma'am. [00:24:07] Speaker 2: Publishing to the jury. Is your testimony that you got one under the name Pesodas because of a glitch at the DMV? [00:24:20] Speaker 3: It wasn't a glitch ma'am. [00:24:21] Speaker 2: Well you testified that the Social Security Administration told you it would update in 24 hours your name change, right? [00:24:28] Speaker 3: It said likely 24 hours, so there was a chance it would be sooner. [00:24:32] Speaker 2: So sooner still, right? [00:24:35] Speaker 3: I hoped it would be sooner, that's why I went back to the DMV that afternoon. [00:24:39] Speaker 2: Right, but in 1.106 you went on January 4th to change your name, correct? [00:24:44] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:24:45] Speaker 2: So it's your testimony that from January 4th of 2023, some nine days later it still hadn't updated? [00:24:54] Speaker 3: No ma'am. So there's a difference between the court document, which you go to court to get, and then the Social Security office, which you have to go in there and bring a copy of the court document to start that updating process. [00:25:04] Speaker 2: Right, but you said you went the same day as you went to the Missouri? No ma'am. [00:25:08] Speaker 3: I said I went to the Social Security office in Delaware after I returned to the Delaware area from St. Louis. [00:25:15] Speaker 2: You submitted driver's licenses for Delaware, Pennsylvania, and a name change in Missouri all within a week approximately? [00:25:30] Speaker 3: I was trying to update my driver's license, yes. [00:25:33] Speaker 2: In three different states? No ma'am. [00:25:35] Speaker 3: I had gotten a name change in Missouri, which had been our plan from the beginning. I was splitting my time between Delaware and Pennsylvania at the time, and I had gotten one license in Delaware that was not the correct name. I was going to be spending part of the next week in Pennsylvania, so the next business day, it was a holiday weekend, it was Martin Luther King Jr. Day. I went on that Tuesday to a DMV in Pennsylvania, and I got a license with what is now my legal name. [00:26:06] Speaker 2: You remember it was a Tuesday, correct? Yes ma'am. But you don't know your wife's doctor's name? [00:26:11] Speaker 3: I was never given her doctor's name. [00:26:14] Speaker 2: You didn't ask? [00:26:16] Speaker 3: Ma'am, she wanted... [00:26:17] Speaker 2: I asked you a question, sir. No. [00:26:19] Speaker 3: Did you ask? I did not ask. [00:26:21] Speaker 2: She was eight months pregnant, you said, correct? [00:26:24] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:26:25] Speaker 2: You never visited her at the hospital? [00:26:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, I was told not to. [00:26:30] Speaker 2: And you listened? Yes ma'am. [00:26:32] Speaker 3: First child, right? [00:26:33] Speaker 2: Yes ma'am. Desperately wanted kids? [00:26:35] Speaker 3: I wouldn't say desperately wanted kids, but I wanted kids. [00:26:38] Speaker 2: You've been trying since Heather, right? Yes. [00:26:41] Speaker 3: How many years was that? You know, Mindy and I didn't start trying to have kids immediately, but... [00:26:47] Speaker 2: Well, you testified there was a miscarriage in the middle, correct? [00:26:50] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. That miscarriage was in, gosh, July of 2021. [00:26:54] Speaker 2: So for years you had been trying to get pregnant? Yes ma'am. And your wife was finally eight months pregnant and terribly ill, correct? [00:27:03] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am, I believe so. [00:27:04] Speaker 2: And you never went to see her? [00:27:06] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I was talking to her and checking on her, but I did not physically go there because I did not think it was safe to. [00:27:11] Speaker 2: Well, just in your testimony earlier, you said texting, not talking. [00:27:15] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. I use them interchangeably, I'll be more clear. [00:27:18] Speaker 2: You never spoke to her? [00:27:20] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I tried to multiple times, but we couldn't get a good enough signal to have a conversation. [00:27:25] Speaker 2: And when you couldn't get her, you didn't go see her? [00:27:28] Speaker 3: No ma'am. [00:27:33] Speaker 2: You're an attorney at the time of all of this, correct? [00:27:36] Speaker 3: I don't believe I was at that time, no ma'am. [00:27:39] Speaker 2: I mean, you don't forget how to be a lawyer, do you? [00:27:41] Speaker 3: No ma'am, I hope not. Right? [00:27:43] Speaker 2: So when you filled out this paperwork for the Missouri change of name, you indicated that you did not owe anybody any judgments? [00:27:56] Speaker 3: That was my understanding, yes ma'am. [00:27:58] Speaker 2: That there were no cases requesting money pending against you, correct? [00:28:01] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:28:04] Speaker 2: Yet you stood in a court of law in front of a judge who told you when to be back to settle what was owed to Ms. Thomas, correct? [00:28:13] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:28:14] Speaker 2: And you didn't go? [00:28:15] Speaker 3: I didn't go because I believed that that was already settled. [00:28:19] Speaker 2: You were an attorney at the time, right? [00:28:22] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am, at that time I absolutely was. [00:28:24] Speaker 2: You know, if you don't show up to court, what happens? [00:28:29] Speaker 3: If I still had a hearing there, if I had not paid that money, I would have been held in contempt. [00:28:35] Speaker 2: You called Heather to confirm she got paid? [00:28:37] Speaker 3: I did not ma'am. And nor did she call me, nor did she come to the house that we had shared that I continued living in for nine months afterwards. [00:28:44] Speaker 2: You have been exchanging a series of emails back and forth with Heather for days leading up to that court hearing, correct? [00:28:52] Speaker 3: I don't believe I had, no ma'am. [00:28:54] Speaker 2: It's your testimony you didn't? No ma'am. Ms. Thomas was following you repeatedly to the point that you thought that she was actually potentially one of the people causing you trouble. [00:29:12] Speaker 3: Yes ma'am. [00:29:13] Speaker 2: But you think she just evaporated? [00:29:15] Speaker 3: Because I believed she had gotten the money that she wanted. [00:29:18] Speaker 2: Then tell us why she would be a danger to you. [00:29:21] Speaker 3: At that point I no longer believed that she was a danger to me. [00:29:25] Speaker 2: When was that? [00:29:26] Speaker 3: That was shortly around the time that I believed the payment had been made to her and she stopped contacting me altogether. Never came by the house, never called my phone. [00:29:38] Speaker 2: But you just told this jury that Jim McIntyre was looking into it for you. [00:29:42] Speaker 3: He was and he said that he had determined that Heather was not involved and that he had wired the funds. [00:29:50] Speaker 2: Let's talk about your marriage license. The application 1.92. [00:29:54] Speaker 3: Absolutely. [00:29:56] Speaker 2: You listed people that are not your parents, correct? [00:29:58] Speaker 3: At the time I believed them to be my parents. [00:30:00] Speaker 2: They're sitting in this courtroom now, right? [00:30:03] Speaker 3: Yes, my parents are. [00:30:05] Speaker 2: You don't disbelieve that Linda and Wayne Kasotis are your parents? [00:30:09] Speaker 3: Not anymore, no ma'am. [00:30:11] Speaker 2: And with all due respect to your father sitting here, that's the man you moved 100 plus times because you were afraid of? [00:30:21] Speaker 3: I wouldn't say 100 plus times, but yes ma'am. We moved probably 50 times because I was terrified. [00:30:27] Speaker 2: Well, the two times that you just talked in direct testimony, you said 15 to 25 times twice and then moved countless other times, correct? [00:30:37] Speaker 3: I wouldn't say countless other times, ma'am. [00:30:39] Speaker 2: Well, your recollection was every time you moved a week, right, you could tell this jury when you were in each different place, correct? [00:30:47] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I have a, uh, because we move so often it's actually pretty easy for me mentally to remember where we were when because oftentimes we were only in a place for two days so if you remember the 4th of July happened while you were in that house, you know where you, you know when you were there. [00:31:03] Speaker 2: But you don't remember your wife's doctor? [00:31:08] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:31:11] Speaker 2: Let's just be clear, 2.32, this is Mindy, right? [00:31:17] Speaker 3: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:31:21] Speaker 2: During your interview with law enforcement, you didn't even ask what happened to her. [00:31:30] Speaker 3: I did ask, ma'am. During the first interview I asked what happened to Mindy and Mr. Sands told me that at this time he did not believe that the, that I presume you, the district attorney, wanted to make that information public. [00:31:42] Speaker 2: You didn't ask about your baby either, did you? No, ma'am. Not once in 2 hours and 10 minutes, correct? Yes, ma'am. And not once in almost 2 hours in Liberty County, correct? [00:31:57] Speaker 3: Well, ma'am, in Liberty County, as you all saw, was the time I was told that Mindy had not been pregnant when she died. [00:32:03] Speaker 2: Until they told you, you didn't ask about the baby either, right? No, ma'am. You told your in-laws that your wife died December 1st of 2022, correct? [00:32:26] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Immediately after I was told, I went back to the house and told them. [00:32:30] Speaker 2: And then the next day you went and got your car washed, or was that the same day? I'm showing 1.110. [00:32:36] Speaker 3: I don't recall what day that was, ma'am. [00:32:38] Speaker 2: Well, that is your car, right? [00:32:40] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:32:41] Speaker 2: So after you found out your wife was dead, you went to the car wash. Is that right? [00:32:48] Speaker 3: Apparently, ma'am. [00:32:50] Speaker 2: Well, that is your bank record, right? [00:32:53] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, at some point I went and got my car washed. I don't recall getting my car washed, but I may have. It appears I did. [00:33:05] Speaker 2: And you went and picked up some beer, right? [00:33:08] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. I was drinking probably a scary amount at this point. [00:33:23] Speaker 2: During your direct examination, I didn't hear any reference to 2.44 or 2.43, the rug, correct? [00:33:29] Speaker 3: Correct, ma'am. [00:33:31] Speaker 2: You don't dispute that this rug is the one you left the house with, 2.44? No, ma'am. [00:33:38] Speaker 3: That looks right. [00:33:39] Speaker 2: And 2.43 is what was there when you got there? [00:33:42] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am. [00:33:44] Speaker 2: And you replaced these because you said Rusty threw up on it? Yes. [00:33:49] Speaker 3: He always had kind of a stomach that was sensitive to eating too much and he was known to beg for food. So sometimes Betsy and Frank would overeat him and he would get sick. [00:34:00] Speaker 2: You didn't just clean the rug? No, ma'am. [00:34:03] Speaker 3: Mindy had put it in a plastic bag and stuck it out back because it smelled. And by the time I had time to try to clean it, 2 days had passed and the entire thing smelled absolutely awful. [00:34:14] Speaker 2: It had nothing to do with the blood that was underneath the rug, right? [00:34:16] Speaker 3: There was no blood underneath the rug. [00:34:18] Speaker 2: Well, you saw the photographs here, correct? [00:34:21] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:34:22] Speaker 2: Is it your testimony that law enforcement somehow put Blue Star on the floor of that house? [00:34:29] Speaker 3: Ma'am, I have no idea what blood that is or when it was there and unfortunately law enforcement never tested that. [00:34:37] Speaker 2: Right. And so the blood on the futon that was Mindy's? [00:34:45] Speaker 3: I have no idea how that blood got there, ma'am. [00:34:50] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:34:51] Speaker 3: I didn't spend a lot of time in that room, so... [00:34:55] Speaker 2: You lived in the house, right? [00:34:57] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:34:59] Speaker 2: It was also your testimony that initially Jim was an FBI agent, right? [00:35:05] Speaker 3: I believed he was for, gosh, 2 years? Over 2 years? [00:35:09] Speaker 2: And at some point you determined that he was not, correct? Yes. You didn't move after you figured that out, right? [00:35:16] Speaker 3: No. As I testified, we had a big argument about whether or not we should, you know, stop dealing with them altogether. [00:35:26] Speaker 2: You also didn't move after your father and uncle showed up at your house, right? That is correct. You were moving hundreds, or at least, my apologies, at least 50 times, correct? Yes, ma'am. [00:35:39] Speaker 3: Yes, at least 50 times, definitely. [00:35:41] Speaker 2: Over 7 years, correct? [00:35:45] Speaker 3: How long was it? Five years, yeah. [00:35:47] Speaker 2: Five years. So over 5 years, you kept moving because that man was your threat. [00:35:53] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:35:54] Speaker 2: And when he showed up at your door with your uncle, correct? [00:35:58] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:35:59] Speaker 2: You didn't move? [00:36:00] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I asked to. [00:36:02] Speaker 2: So at this point, you actually knew he knew where you were? Yes, ma'am. You ran out the back? [00:36:11] Speaker 3: After I talked to Jim, yes. I departed via the back of the house. [00:36:15] Speaker 2: Right. You said you called Jim, didn't you? [00:36:18] Speaker 3: Yes. On signal. But you can make voice calls or I believe even video calls now through signal. [00:36:24] Speaker 2: But yet when law enforcement spoke to you the first time in Pennsylvania, you said he just showed up. Right? [00:36:30] Speaker ?: No, ma'am. [00:36:31] Speaker 2: Law enforcement specifically asked you how did Jim know where to find you and you said he just showed up. No, ma'am. [00:36:41] Speaker 3: I said it didn't take him long to get there, which I thought clearly indicated that I had contacted him, but apparently there was some confusion on Mr. Sands' part. He then later said that I was clearly asked that twice and I've listened to that interview about 40 times and I've never heard it asked even once clearly. [00:37:00] Speaker 2: You've had access to all this material, correct? [00:37:06] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:37:07] Speaker 2: You knew what the state's case was, correct? Yes, ma'am. No documents here with you today? [00:37:11] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:37:18] Speaker 2: You indicated at some point that it was very important for you to figure out who of Mindy's friends would need to know, correct? Absolutely, ma'am. And you reached out to each of them, correct? I did. It's your testimony you had no idea that Mr. Frank and Mrs. Betsy thought you were dead? [00:37:42] Speaker ?: No, ma'am. [00:37:43] Speaker 3: I did not. [00:37:44] Speaker 2: So, I'm showing you 1.87 and 1.88. We'll take a look at them. You've seen them before, right? [00:37:57] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. I saw them when they were provided in Discovery. [00:38:01] Speaker 2: Did you see the email address on that? [00:38:14] Speaker ?: I do, ma'am. [00:38:15] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:38:16] Speaker 2: That's APIS Limited, correct? [00:38:18] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:38:19] Speaker 2: That would be the same address that you claimed was Jim McIntyre, correct? [00:38:24] Speaker 3: I believe he had an APIS, but I'm not sure that I ever, I did not regularly email with him personally, so I believe at some point I saw an APIS Limited address for him as he was reaching out to Frank and Betsy. [00:38:38] Speaker 2: Well, you just told the jury you worked for APIS Limited, right? [00:38:41] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. I believe so. [00:38:44] Speaker 2: You got that employment verification from Marcus Jones at APIS Limited, right? [00:38:47] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:38:48] Speaker 2: And you believed you were working for Jim McIntyre, right? [00:38:51] Speaker 3: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:38:52] Speaker 2: That he was preserving all of your funds in a trust, right? Yes, ma'am. Did you bring the trust documents here? [00:38:57] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:38:58] Speaker 2: In order to start a trust, Mr. Casodes, as an attorney, you know that there are actual documents you need to sign, right? [00:39:05] Speaker 3: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:39:06] Speaker 2: You never preserved any of those? [00:39:09] Speaker 3: At some point I lost them. I don't know exactly when. [00:39:15] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:39:16] Speaker 3: But I had them and I provided them to Miss Thomas on at least one occasion. [00:39:23] Speaker 2: Actually, when you went to court, you didn't provide the court with anything, did you? [00:39:27] Speaker 3: I don't believe I was asked to. [00:39:29] Speaker 2: That would be a no? [00:39:31] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. That would be a no. [00:39:33] Speaker 2: But you told the court you had $32 million? Absolutely, ma'am. Did you ever ask Jim to show you a copy of the check that he sent to Heather or the wire to pay her off? Absolutely. [00:39:47] Speaker 3: I saw bank records showing a wire transaction to her. [00:39:50] Speaker 2: And you saved all those? [00:39:52] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I believe I've been pretty clear about that. [00:39:55] Speaker 2: Well, Heather was all but, from your description, stalking you for the money, right? [00:40:00] Speaker 3: She was energetically looking for it. Yes, ma'am. [00:40:05] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:40:06] Speaker 2: So, energetically looking for it, you didn't think it was important to hold on to a copy of those? No, ma'am. [00:40:12] Speaker 3: As I said, I stayed in that house for another nine months. The house that Heather and I had shared when we were married and never heard from her. She never stopped by. She never called my phone. I assumed that that was over and done with. [00:40:24] Speaker 2: At that point, you had moved and changed your name and your driver's licenses in two additional states, correct? [00:40:32] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. This is years before that. Okay. [00:40:35] Speaker 2: Now, initially, I believe you told us that you contacted the FBI and that's when Jim showed up, correct? [00:41:00] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:41:01] Speaker 2: If I recall correctly, what you said was you were very happy because normally you don't get any traction on a case like this. [00:41:10] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. That was my fear. [00:41:13] Speaker 2: But then Jim McIntyre, according to your testimony, spent the next two years acting as your basically personal assistant, personal assistant, social media provider, financial advisor, and Microsoft purveyor, correct? [00:41:34] Speaker 3: I'm not sure I would use all of those, but he was somebody that we were dealing with very closely throughout all of this. [00:41:41] Speaker 2: You thought that an FBI agent just decided to take you on with a case you didn't think that he was actually even going to investigate? [00:41:49] Speaker 3: I had been worried that he wouldn't investigate it. I was very happy that it was being taken so seriously. [00:41:56] Speaker 2: And it's your testimony to this jury that after 10 years in the JAG, you believed he was an FBI agent. [00:42:02] Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I've dealt with law enforcement, both the state, the local and federal law enforcement extensively. There was nothing that concerned me at that time. [00:42:23] Speaker 2: So let me make sure I get this straight. Initially, you thought that the risk, based on your testimony, was because of the Washington Post article. Absolutely, ma'am. Then you thought it was Wayne, correct? [00:42:34] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. Then we started looking at others. We looked at an ex-boyfriend of Mindy's, Heather, my ex-wife. Then we looked at a former boss of Angela's who had tried to assault Mindy. He was a very kind of rich and powerful man. [00:42:55] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. [00:42:57] Speaker 3: And it wasn't until after we had exhausted those leads that he started looking at our immediate families. [00:43:03] Speaker 2: So when Jim McIntyre, you determined, did not work for the FBI, he promptly told you how he knew to come and see you and Mindy, right? [00:43:32] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. And that is one of the things I've thought about extensively over the last 27 months as this case has gone on. That as to how he entered our life, I never followed up. And there are frankly a lot of mistakes I've made over the last seven years of my life that I spent a lot of time thinking about. [00:43:50] Speaker 2: He just showed up at your house and said he was the FBI. You heard testimony about Cameron Nelson's credit card, the Capital One card, correct? Yes, ma'am. It's your testimony that all of those charges were being made by Jim McIntyre? [00:44:20] Speaker 3: The majority of them, not all of them. [00:44:22] Speaker 2: The Uber Eats purchases that came to the house in Savannah, those were done by Jim McIntyre? [00:44:28] Speaker 3: We were never in Savannah while anything was being charged to a Cameron's card. Are you sure? [00:44:34] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. And all of those transactions, the Uber car rentals, were those Jim McIntyre too? [00:44:44] Speaker 3: The Uber car rentals? Yeah, Uber. I don't know anything about those, ma'am. [00:44:50] Speaker 2: You never took an Uber on a credit card? [00:44:53] Speaker 3: I have taken Ubers before, I have never, during this time I never took an Uber, no. [00:44:59] Speaker 2: So if the bank records show you taking Ubers and going places, that wasn't you? [00:45:05] Speaker 3: That was not me, correct. [00:45:07] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:45:09] Speaker 2: You have an Uber app on your phone, correct? [00:45:13] Speaker 3: I do now, yes. [00:45:15] Speaker 2: So it's your testimony, you never had an Uber app on your phone in 2022? [00:45:20] Speaker 3: In 2022 I did. I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Ms. Nelson's credit card. Are we talking about my bank records or Ms. Nelson's? I'm just not clear. [00:45:28] Speaker 2: I'm talking about your bank records. [00:45:30] Speaker 3: Oh, okay, yes. My bank records, yes. There were times I took an Uber. [00:45:35] Speaker 2: But you told this jury you were afraid to leave the house, right? [00:45:38] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Every time I went out, it was scary. [00:45:42] Speaker 2: But you fought through the fear and jumped in an Uber? [00:45:46] Speaker 3: If I had things that needed to be done, then yes. I thought it was my job to take care of those things. [00:45:54] Speaker 2: You didn't call Jim and say, "Hey Jim, I need a ride. Get me to this location. You're my security detail?" [00:46:00] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I mean, sometimes he would drive me places, but for regular errands? No. That was something that I dealt with. Either I had Mr. Frank Mebin drive me, or I would call an Uber. [00:46:13] Speaker 2: Right, because on November 29th, you clearly went to Home Depot by yourself, right? Yes, ma'am. [00:46:19] Speaker 3: At that point I had a car, so I was not taking Ubers anywhere. [00:46:30] Speaker 2: And it's your testimony to this jury that you never paid Jim McIntyre one penny for how many years of service to you? [00:46:39] Speaker 3: I believed that we were both benefiting from this. That's not what I asked you. [00:46:43] Speaker 2: I asked you if you paid him. [00:46:45] Speaker 3: No, I did not. [00:46:46] Speaker 2: So in all of the years that he worked with you, you never paid him? [00:46:51] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:46:57] Speaker 2: And it was your testimony you met Frank first, or rather, you met Jim first in Virginia, correct? [00:47:02] Speaker 3: Yes, Alexandria, Virginia. [00:47:04] Speaker 2: And then he followed you to what state next? [00:47:07] Speaker 3: We saw him multiple times in Virginia, then later we saw him in South Carolina and in Georgia. [00:47:13] Speaker 2: And then you said you didn't see him much? [00:47:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe I only saw him once, maybe twice when I was in Delaware. [00:47:20] Speaker 2: Okay. It was your testimony to law enforcement, or your statement I should say, to be clear, that Jim McIntyre handled your finances the entire time? [00:47:49] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:47:51] Speaker 2: That included setting up all of your Airbnbs, correct? [00:47:55] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:47:56] Speaker 2: Except the one in Savannah, because you bought that one, right? [00:47:58] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. And there were two at the very beginning. One in Alexandria and one in Charlottesville that I set up personally. [00:48:05] Speaker 2: Well, and don't forget the one in Hilton Head that you got for Frank and Betsy afterwards, and you were named too, right? [00:48:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, that wasn't an Airbnb, but correct. I did set up that rental. [00:48:13] Speaker 2: In the name Kasotas, right? Yes, ma'am. While you were still afraid that people were coming after you. And your wife now was already dead. Yes, ma'am. And you're still using your name Kasotas. [00:48:23] Speaker 3: That was my legal name at the time. Yes, ma'am. And you said when you got the $300,000 from Sony, you didn't pay Cameron, right? [00:48:31] Speaker ?: Correct, ma'am. You didn't pay Heather, right? You thought that was paid. I thought that was paid. I thought that was paid, ma'am. Right. At that point, that money was the money you and Mindy were living on, right? [00:48:36] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Jim McIntyre didn't control that money. Jim McIntyre didn't control that money, correct? No, he did not. He said he was monitoring it. And you said when you got the $300,000 from Sony, you didn't pay Cameron, right? Correct, ma'am. You didn't pay Heather, right? [00:48:46] Speaker 3: You thought that was paid. [00:48:47] Speaker 2: I thought that was paid, ma'am. Right. [00:48:49] Speaker 3: I thought that was paid, ma'am. [00:48:50] Speaker ?: Right. [00:48:50] Speaker 2: At that point, that money was the money you and Mindy were living on, right? [00:48:59] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:49:00] Speaker 2: Jim McIntyre didn't control that money, correct? [00:49:04] Speaker 3: No, he did not. He said he was monitoring it and taking actions to prevent it, but he did not control that money. [00:49:10] Speaker 2: So you did have $300,000 to your disposal, at least on June of 2022. Absolutely. [00:49:16] Speaker 3: That was a non-negotiable point for us, was that we get to control our own money. [00:49:23] Speaker 2: Now, you talked about mosquitoes, right? Absolutely, ma'am. When you had problems with mosquitoes, that was when you first moved in, right? [00:49:32] Speaker 3: It had started when we first moved in, but it got worse in, I want to say mid-August. [00:49:38] Speaker 2: Can you tell the jury how expensive the Airbnb was? How much did that cost? [00:49:43] Speaker 3: I think it cost about $4,500 a month, but I could be mistaken. [00:49:48] Speaker 2: You called the owner, right, to get her to fix the mosquito problem? No, ma'am. You decided to fix that yourself? [00:49:55] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. This was a rule that we had had for several years. [00:49:58] Speaker 2: At $4,500 a month, you took on handyman jobs? Absolutely, ma'am. It was also your testimony that Mr. Frank and Mrs. Betsy left the residence the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, correct? Yes, ma'am. And they returned on that Sunday? [00:50:19] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. That is the best of my recollection, but I'm pretty certain about it. [00:50:23] Speaker 2: Well, you testified under oath to that, right? [00:50:25] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:50:26] Speaker 2: So if you weren't sure, you would have told us that, right? [00:50:28] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:50:29] Speaker 2: There's also your testimony that your wife went into the hospital on Saturday, that weekend, correct? [00:50:34] Speaker 3: I believe it was Saturday. There's a slight chance it could have been Friday, but I've thought about this a lot. I'm relatively certain it was Saturday. [00:50:42] Speaker 2: Well, you just again testified under oath it was Saturday. [00:50:45] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:50:46] Speaker 2: You didn't give us an equivocation earlier, did you? [00:50:48] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. I did not. [00:50:49] Speaker 2: And you said it was Saturday, correct? [00:50:51] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:50:53] Speaker 2: And you said that her parents came back on Sunday, right? [00:50:56] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:50:57] Speaker 2: You never told them what hospital, right? [00:50:59] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I don't believe they asked either. [00:51:04] Speaker 2: And then it was your testimony that you talked to Mindy Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, correct? [00:51:18] Speaker 3: I believed I talked to Mindy. [00:51:20] Speaker 2: Okay. So that was a yes. [00:51:23] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. I am uncertain. I think I've been pretty clear that I don't know if it was Mindy or not. It was a message from, you know, Mindy's signal account. [00:51:31] Speaker 2: But you could have called her on the signal account, right? [00:51:33] Speaker 3: As I said, I tried to call her, but she didn't have a good enough signal where she was, so we couldn't hear each other. [00:51:40] Speaker 2: But you never talked to her after she went in, so how would you know that? [00:51:44] Speaker 3: As I said, I tried to call her, and when we could not verbally talk, we messaged each other via signal. [00:51:54] Speaker 2: And then you went to pick her up on December 1st, correct? Yes, ma'am. You heard testimony from Dr. Mondor that on December 1st, she was already dead, right? [00:52:08] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:52:12] Speaker 2: You have no reason to disbelieve Dr. Mondor's estimation, do you? [00:52:16] Speaker 3: I do not, ma'am, no. Which is why I have said I do not think I was talking to Mindy for most of that week. [00:52:27] Speaker 2: And when you went to the birthing center and they told you that Mindy had passed, you didn't see Mindy, correct? [00:52:38] Speaker 3: Correct, ma'am. I asked you and I was told I was not able to at that time. [00:52:41] Speaker 2: You never once referenced the baby during your direct examination when you talked to the doctor. [00:52:46] Speaker 3: Well, ma'am, at this point, I learned roughly a little over two years ago that there was no baby. [00:52:53] Speaker 2: We didn't mention it to law enforcement either when they first approached you. [00:52:57] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I guess I did not. I believe we talked about the pregnancy quite a bit, but not specifically the baby. [00:53:07] Speaker 2: Not on the first interview, Mr. Kosotis. You didn't. [00:53:10] Speaker 3: I'm relatively certain we talked quite a bit about how Mindy was pregnant and where I thought she was. Yes, ma'am. [00:53:20] Speaker 2: Okay. Now, when you went to pick up your wife's ashes, you indicated that was in Alabama? [00:53:39] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Montgomery, Alabama. [00:53:41] Speaker 2: And you gave him $5,000 cash? [00:53:43] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:53:44] Speaker 2: No paperwork? [00:53:46] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:53:47] Speaker 2: No name? [00:53:49] Speaker 3: I'm sorry, no name? He didn't give you his name? He might have ma'am. I'm not sure. I don't remember. It was a very brief meeting. [00:53:55] Speaker 2: You received your wife's ashes on the side of the road and you didn't get the man's name? [00:54:00] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I was pretty angry at him. [00:54:02] Speaker 2: You're an attorney at the time, right? No, ma'am. You weren't a lawyer at that time? [00:54:08] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I was not licensed at that time. [00:54:10] Speaker 2: Well, you had put your license on hold, essentially, right? [00:54:14] Speaker 3: Yeah, I had given up my Virginia license, but Massachusetts allows you to retire your license and then if you want to turn it back on later, you just have to pay as if you were an active lawyer for all the years in between. So I am still, to this day, a retired attorney in Massachusetts. [00:54:30] Speaker 2: You didn't forget how to be a lawyer, is my point? [00:54:33] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:54:34] Speaker 2: Okay. And receiving your wife's ashes on the side of the road in Alabama for $5,000 cash, you didn't think you needed any documents as an attorney? [00:54:42] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I was pretty angry about the entire exchange. [00:54:45] Speaker 2: That was a no, correct? Correct, ma'am. And I just want to make sure I understand, your car burst into flames in the condition we saw it in this courtroom on your way to purchase a house? Yes, ma'am. And you never bought the house? [00:55:05] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:55:06] Speaker 2: That's a real estate transaction, correct? [00:55:08] Speaker 3: That is a real estate transaction, yes, ma'am. [00:55:10] Speaker 2: Those require written documents, correct? Absolutely, ma'am. You lost $50,000, you said, right? I did, ma'am. You have no records of that? [00:55:18] Speaker 3: Ma'am, you have all my banking records. You can see the EMD coming right out of it. [00:55:22] Speaker 2: Right. And your testimony is you don't have a record reflecting anything concerning that transaction that day? [00:55:33] Speaker 3: Ma'am, you have all of my electronics and that's how all these documents were. They were e-signed. [00:55:38] Speaker 2: Well, actually, withdrawn. You never bought the house, right? [00:55:49] Speaker 3: Correct, ma'am. [00:55:50] Speaker 2: Because you had a check for $860,000, I believe you said, correct? Yes, ma'am. That you said burnt up, right? [00:55:57] Speaker 3: Along with parts of me, ma'am. [00:55:59] Speaker 2: And when Investigator Frost said to you, "What was so important that was in the car that you opened the door?" Do you recall that? [00:56:06] Speaker 3: It was my phone, ma'am. [00:56:08] Speaker 2: Not the check for $860,000. [00:56:10] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. In that moment, all I was trying to do was call for help. [00:56:13] Speaker 2: You didn't care about a check for $860,000? [00:56:18] Speaker 3: I absolutely cared about a check for $860,000. At that moment, I was trying to call for help. I did not realize that my car was about to burst into flames. [00:56:27] Speaker 2: Detective Frost had to tell you about the check, didn't he? [00:56:31] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. I remembered the check. I thought we were talking about something else. [00:56:36] Speaker 2: I just want to make sure I confirm something. The police report against your father for the name change in Missouri? [00:56:59] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:57:00] Speaker 2: That was September 30th of 2022, the incident, correct? [00:57:03] Speaker 3: I believe so, ma'am. Yes. [00:57:05] Speaker 2: When you were a victim of domestic violence, as alleged, that allows you to seal the name change, correct? [00:57:14] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:57:15] Speaker 2: If you had not had a police report reflecting the need to seal it being domestic violence, you couldn't have gotten it sealed, right? [00:57:22] Speaker 3: Well, ma'am, I thought there were many other reports at this time, but yes, I did rely on that one when I got it sealed. Yes, ma'am. [00:57:31] Speaker 2: You submitted it, right? [00:57:33] Speaker 3: Absolutely. Along with my medical records, I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:57:38] Speaker ?: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:57:54] Speaker 2: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:07] Speaker 3: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:08] Speaker 2: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:13] Speaker 3: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:14] Speaker ?: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:15] Speaker 2: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:17] Speaker ?: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. [00:58:41] Speaker 2: I believe, from the assaults in Virginia. Mr. Kisotis, in anticipation of today's date, you located Mr. McIntyre, right? [00:58:51] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:58:53] Speaker 2: So you've been talking to him, basically, on and off for, since what, 2017? [00:58:58] Speaker 3: I started talking to him in fall of 2017, I believe. And we last spoke in, I want to say, mid-April of 2023. [00:59:07] Speaker 2: And the records for APIS Limited, you subpoenaed those records in anticipation of court, correct? [00:59:18] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. [00:59:19] Speaker 2: You know what a subpoena is as an attorney, right, sir? [00:59:21] Speaker 3: I do, ma'am. [00:59:26] Speaker 2: And you knew that Mr. McIntyre was a majority investor, I think is the phrasing that you used, right? [00:59:33] Speaker 3: That was what I believed, ma'am. [00:59:37] Speaker 2: You hired a private investigator to find him? [00:59:41] Speaker ?: No, ma'am. [00:59:42] Speaker 3: I hoped the state would do that, but y'all didn't really care that much. [00:59:47] Speaker 2: Objection, Your Honor. Move to strike. It's argumentative. [00:59:54] Speaker 1: Let me see y'all at the bench. [01:00:07] Speaker ?: I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. [01:00:16] Speaker 3: I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. [01:00:18] Speaker ?: I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. I'm going to see you over here. 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