Day 2 of Naresh Bhatt's testimony in murder trial of wife Mamta Kafle Bhatt — Testimony Part 5

[0:19] right before we begin let me ask you again did anybody talk about the case or do independent [0:23] research on it all right Mr. Bott it is a new day I know you're still in the middle of your [0:30] testimony but you need to be re-sworn in please yes I do good morning again Mr. Bott good morning [1:01] ma'am so just to get some connection with yesterday we had talked about the conversation [1:13] you had via chat messenger with Mamta in February do you remember that yes ma'am and so I want to [1:22] talk a little bit about more about this time frame between December and February before we move on to [1:29] other things sure first can you describe for the jury what a rice feeding ceremony is uh in a Hinduism [1:40] Hindu culture or Nepalese Nepali culture it is once baby you know keep growing about months of [1:48] once baby get age of five to six months then they introduce some sort of solid solid food usually [1:58] that could be the rice that's why they say rice feeding ceremony exactly there is like you know [2:04] you have to leave that culture there is no exact word translate in English but like uh it's a little [2:11] different and then top of that even in Nepal in the eastern part of Nepal it's a different terminology [2:17] and then western part of Nepal it's a different terminology and then we do in a little different way [2:22] so that is basically like you know we introduce to baby a solid food additional extra additional than [2:30] the milk and is it um is it is it an important is it an important ceremony uh it depends on like [2:37] cultural family like nowadays if you have money this and that it is like yeah important otherwise [2:43] like it's like a same like birthday I never celebrated you know big birthday in my whole life [2:48] but like some people birthday is a very big festival for me it's not for my wife it's big festival for my [2:53] daughter biggest festival so it depends okay and was it um was in your family was the rice feeding ceremony [3:01] an important event in my whole family I can say in whole clan but family uh Nima had the first ever [3:10] rice feeding ceremony we never had before like I never remember any of my brothers cousins uh niece [3:16] uh nephew I never remember any of those but they do it's like mother and father they do in a very [3:22] normal way at home but like I never remember any of us we had that I never remember how about in you [3:28] in your family with Mamta and Nima was it important very important it was a very big festival we prepared [3:35] for like a couple few months and then she bring all those dresses jewelry from back home I think we spend [3:43] like uh Nepalese currency hundred thousand currency over there around like one thousand dollar of the [3:50] United States so it was like very very big for our family because that was the first kid and then that [3:56] was the first daughter of whole family not only my family whole family we do not have like females [4:03] so it was great and then it was very big and did um did did you have it scheduled let me ask who who [4:09] arranged the rice feeding ceremony uh at home Mamta did everything but like you know we got the date from [4:16] the pundit I forgot the name of again pundit he was somewhere in centrally so he got the date and we we [4:23] did everything according to the date so he got the date were there preparations who did the preparations [4:31] I follow the instruction given by the mantra whatever like you know what's supposed to wear [4:35] what's supposed to buy what's supposed to do you know like just which temple we're gonna go at what [4:40] time you know just I'm assistant okay and um and were what kinds of plans you said that you were gonna go [4:48] to a temple yes um were there other things that had to happen yeah like at home like you know a lot [4:55] of cultural stuff you know making like different I don't know I forgot maybe 20 types of different ball [5:01] different food and then put the baby on a like you know some rose flower break those down and then put on [5:08] a milk you know like get a baby you know like take a baby shower on a milk uh stuff like those those a lot [5:15] of stuff so I'm not in charge of those so those usually like uh it's not even tradition now they [5:22] saw in a tick tock you know what somebody did just follow and then make it you know like a little [5:28] different than original culture the original culture is I think like usually like what happened [5:34] like the oldest family don't tell me about that okay that's okay sorry that's all I'm just trying to keep [5:39] this focus so we keep it moving um so did did the original was it was it was the first one cancelled [5:47] yes that is correct were there um and so and we've seen many tick tock like videos and photos and things [5:56] like that were there plans to video or to take pictures at the rice feeding ceremony yes we had a [6:02] photographer and uh a professional photographer I don't believe he has some license or something [6:11] like that he is one of my good friend he he is also in the military he has a camera professional camera [6:18] so he come up and then we don't know how to operate that you know like uh he's my friend I think that was [6:24] the first time he came at my home so there was a plan for a professional photographer yes um no in the [6:29] first time I do not remember first time because still we did not have some of the uh dress did not [6:36] arrived from Nepal because most of those arrived from Nepal so was that was that ceremony cancelled yes [6:44] okay and do you remember why did it get cancelled it has a month I has an injury that's why it get [6:51] cancelled she doesn't want to put that in a video or pictures uh that's why we cancelled and then later [6:58] there was a cold season and uh the another plan changed I already informed without asking her [7:04] some of my friends those are out of the hindu family so and so do you know did you said that [7:11] she had an injury what was it he she has here like you know she when she was uh fall down on the uh [7:18] downstairs like uh before I don't exactly recall few days or few weeks before the ceremony so she has a [7:29] injury and then that like that doesn't look good but like you know it looks a little bit that's why [7:34] she when I was like changed because of the picture okay and um and did you did you did you care one way [7:41] or the other whether the ceremony went forward when it was scheduled I had only one worried because I [7:48] I invited few other people who are not the hindu family number like neighbors uh mom I did not ask that [7:55] to mom that just I saw them and then invite like that wasn't part of the plan so only like [8:00] was she happy about you inviting other people not happy not not sad it's nothing abnormal so because [8:08] uh it's gonna be indoor cold and then you know those people like you know non-based stuff more like you [8:14] know American way so uh that was like completely traditional type of stuff so like you know she said [8:19] we we can invite one right hand side neighbor or left hand side no neighbor not a lot because I invite some of [8:26] my co-workers as well okay and did you let's talk a little bit more more about the bruise did you [8:33] take pictures of the bruise on her face no did you know that she had taken pictures yes on her face yes [8:40] okay and did you know that she um that she had sent the picture to other people I did not know she sent to [8:48] me but like you know I don't know she sent to the other picture I never knew that but like now she sent to [8:53] me yes I know okay and um when did the do you remember when the rice ceremony eventually happened [9:00] what month it was I forgot the date uh but it's on my phone when pandit gave us the date like I [9:08] I have in my phone I forgot the date I don't remember the date it was snow outside that's what [9:12] I remember it was snowing outside okay um so to be clear were you anywhere near mamta when she [9:20] got the bruise on her face no did you cause the bruise on her face no did you physically assault her [9:26] never anyway never so moving on from that you heard um you heard mahesh uh testify earlier [9:41] mamta's brother um and you've heard him testifying about a video call he had yes with uh mamta in [9:48] february yes were you in the house when she had that call with him i do not remember usually like [9:55] you know like i never heard i never see or heard mamta was talking to mahes i mahes like you didn't [10:02] you were no you were not around when she had that no with him um had mahesh ever been to your house [10:10] before uh here or nepal never no here in the united states no never even nepal or here never okay so [10:19] he'd never visited your home before never had um had mamta's mother or father visited your home [10:26] in the united states uh not in the united states as per my knowledge nepal yes okay um so you've seen [10:34] the picture that mamta sent to mahesh in february and claiming it was a picture she took in december [10:41] do you remember that yeah somewhere end of november december somewhere like that okay yes [10:46] and may i approach the witness you may i think this is 452a do you recognize that photo uh yes [11:15] so and i and i'm not talking about the the text thread yes photo yes about the photo in the text yes [11:22] and you recognize that photo in the text that is correct okay and um did you is that the photo that [11:36] she sent to you or was it a different photo i do not exactly recall but similar photo yes okay so [11:43] you're not sure if this is exactly what she said yes i don't know this is exact or not similar photo yes [11:47] she sent to me on the text message um and looking back is it i just want to i want to make sure we're [11:58] really clear um would mamta talk with people on her phone while you were in the room with her would you [12:12] you mind to repeat that question one more time please do you do you recall and we can even just [12:17] keep it to the time frame of you know in 2023 or jane uh november 2023 through february were there [12:28] times that mamta would talk to people on the phone or video call with people that you would be in the [12:34] room with her she do a lot so like you know i was always around she like spent a lot of time with her [12:41] friends you know she do a lot of video call and then uh audio calls to her family and friends yes [12:47] on her phone yes and were you always paying attention to what was going on in those [12:52] really not yeah so she might have had calls with them that you didn't pay any attention to [12:59] whatsoever majority of time like 95 of the time no okay all right so 95 percent of the time you're [13:05] not even paying any attention to what's going on when she's talking to people on the phone [13:09] no even like i demand you know even when i'm talking she like you know if making noise cd man [13:14] silent if she is talking item in silence so like i don't want to disturb you know okay yeah okay um [13:20] okay so coming back to the picture um does that and i apologize if i've already asked this does that [13:29] look like the same mark on her cheek that she had that caused the cancellation of the rice ceremony [13:36] looks like same but i'm not 100 percent sure i'm uh like uh like i feel yes it's same okay um so mamta [13:50] also told her brother you heard him testify here that you were keeping food from her is that true not [13:58] at all and um who prepared at this time who prepared the food in your house all the time uh since the day [14:06] one mamta came first meal i cooked the ramen chicken soup other after that mamta always even like you [14:12] know during the period she instruct what to do how to do she is the you know like owner of the kitchen [14:18] um and i i i i think you said that for a period of time your mom also cooked when she was right after [14:25] the pregnancy let me clear that okay mom did that but instruction from mamta because mom is a you know kind of [14:33] okay cook mamta is a very good cook so instruction your mom know you think she's just an okay cook [14:39] my mom is okay cook i like her food because you know i born from her and then i used to with her [14:44] but like mamta know like how to cook better tasty food okay yeah so so even after you're saying even [14:50] after the birth mamta was involved in the cooking yes and then sometimes for example like even like she [14:57] doesn't eat chicken i make a chicken i don't my mom also doesn't eat chicken if i make a chicken oh it [15:03] doesn't go tasty like later she said like i told you i follow my instruction you know i i say like [15:08] you know you are not very like a non-veg so don't us like you know non-veg stuff still see like listen [15:14] to me you know she uh did she did you ever um were you were you ever the person that like um [15:23] when we rephrase it did mom ever not have access to the kitchen and the food in the kitchen that's [15:31] a hundred percent impossible okay okay um mamta told her brother that she was unsafe was that true [15:42] that is i don't know what is his opinion why he's saying that i don't believe that at all do you think [15:49] that mamta um do you think that mamta well did did mom to do things in the house that made that you [15:58] think showed she was feeling unsafe never you see things that never never ever um she also um and [16:09] were your parents still living with you during this time period from december to february yes i think [16:16] you testified before it was from really august all the way through to june is that right may or june [16:22] that is correct okay um did did your she told your um brother or your brother her brother says [16:34] that she told him that your parents hated her is that true i don't believe that at all okay um [16:42] what was the relationship between mamta and your parents like at this time at this time you know [16:49] like way way better than you know i expected way better than they are not like even like mom and [16:54] daughter they were like you know you can see those tick tock video how they behave even like my dad [16:59] smoked cigarette but my dad doesn't allow keep cigarette mamta keep secret somewhere hiding [17:06] and then mamta make him to walk you know if you walk two hours i will give you two secret so that's [17:12] the system we have okay and were there things like that between mamta and your parents where she would [17:18] always um were you during any of this time so was there a moment [17:32] during the um the february time frame where you felt like mamta was not being respectful to your [17:39] parents not at that moment not at all and i think you referenced this in the thread back and forth [17:45] between the two of you why did you say that to her just making feel her bad because that wasn't true [17:52] like i want to make her feel bad and then yes uh she wasn't you know like very kind with me [17:59] but like you know and then my mom and dad no um but my friend yes okay um did you i've asked this in [18:21] different ways but i'll just ask it again is there any do you know why she took pictures of herself and [18:28] then sent them to um to mahesh or to other people do you have any you know why i believe yes because she [18:39] took the picture even like she has a previous picture when she got injured miscarriage she always [18:44] used to do that so she she has on that phone i have seen that on the phone as well because we have [18:50] phone access each other's phone access in the beginning time so it doesn't matter for me but like [18:55] you know at the situation come like you know we are getting like you know worse than she might send to [19:01] like oh okay like you know we might need this to make me scared or something like that did she take [19:07] videos of all kinds of things majority of time yes even like no the video we not good still she took [19:13] the videos um did you ever you know spit on her no did you ever hit her no would you mind to clear [19:29] uh can i clarify that spit word yes there is a in nepalese culture we say you know over here people [19:36] say i'm sorry i'm going to use the right word uh or something something like that over there we say [19:43] tooka i would like to request to my interpreter to translate tooka right just meaningless meaningless [19:52] or it's stupid you can use that stop yeah you can't testify you have to say what you want to say [20:01] he and feel free to say it in nepali and he can interpret but i'm going to strike anything the [20:07] interpreter just said from the record that was not any i can ask a question that will elicit free so [20:14] let me do that what does um what does is there a nepali word that that brings to mind this idea of [20:23] spitting i can i can give you within an example okay what is an example of that oh for example [20:32] you ask me like you know if i'm not happy with you let's say like hey go upstairs and do something i say [20:39] i can say i'm not gonna go that i'm not gonna do that tooka that's the i say it means like you know [20:44] i'm speaking on you if you translate in english but uh i'm gonna try to say exactly in nepali so [20:52] like uh i would request my interpreter say it in nepali i don't took a more gardener [20:59] same on you i don't do that okay um and is that word tuka a word that can that that can have different [21:11] nuances or meanings to it it's not quite respectful meaning or like i'm not following you whatever you [21:19] say or i don't want to follow what you say okay the meaning like that and can and are you suggesting [21:25] that it can it can be interpreted as i'm spitting on you if you translate in english there is no similar [21:31] word like you know because in american culture they don't do that so there is no word okay did you ever [21:39] actually literally the american version of this spit on mantha in like a american way neither she did [21:51] neither i did but we both use that word but like never none of us did that okay that's again like it's [21:59] a scene if you really do it it's a scene scene carried by who did the work okay um were you regularly [22:11] telling her at this time that you would divorce her not regularly when we like you know conversation [22:20] doesn't sound very pleasant yes so it was not it when you would have disputes yes were you both like [22:32] in the message thread that you had with her on february 16th were you both tossing around the idea of [22:38] divorce i was doing more um were both of you threatening or hinting at as again you say in this thread [22:50] committing suicide yes you feel did you think um were you pulling back from mamtha at this point [23:04] do you mind to repeat that one more time please and it may not be a good correlative um were you [23:17] emotionally and and mentally pulling yourself away from mamtha a little bit at this point [23:32] that is correct um were you abandoning her a little bit no were you doing and saying things that might [23:41] have given that impression i don't know what she feel but like you know i do not abandon it or yeah [23:51] i was trying to you know stay away yes do you think she was happy at this time no so were you also aware [24:01] and you you've heard um other people very early on in the case people that are um that are friends of [24:07] mamtha's or co-workers of mamtha's um that have said that you were physically abusing her do you remember [24:15] that testimony yes um were you aware that she well let me ask first well yeah were you aware that she [24:25] was that she was saying this to friends of hers that is shocking unbelievable for me and were you [24:32] aware that she was telling them that this abuse had been going on for a while i don't believe she said [24:40] but like i don't know how that comes from people but i don't believe she said that um do you think that [24:47] she was did she think did you had girlfriends no never no not did you have them do you think she [24:56] thought you no and what did she think about the text message for example or chat with the tenant in [25:05] the basement about she knew that you know like uh what type of behavior i had even like you know [25:12] previously before i get married and then erectile dysfunction stuff like that she is also aware about [25:18] the medical stuff and then she knew that i was making her irritate so like i don't have that type [25:24] of behavior and then even when i talk to her in the beginning time the boys talk in a different way [25:29] i come in a different way so she doesn't believe like even i say like you know hey i talked to the [25:34] girl i like that one of the girls she said like go ahead if you can make her happy you cannot i know [25:39] that you don't know how to talk to the girl okay yeah um did she regularly see your phone and your [25:45] messages not very often did she look at your phone could she do that yes you know how to get into your [25:53] phone yes we have like you know the same uh month and then we both have the same uh passcode and did [26:00] you did she accuse you of having other women yeah not really like you know i when like i try to get [26:09] away from her yes then she you know start saying like you might have another girl you might have doing [26:15] this and that so like you know previous fiance this and that you might have this you might have that [26:21] you know yes she would say those kinds of things yes when she was not very happy yes [26:29] feel about the possibility of getting divorced it was just a threat like no i did not do even like i [26:38] say i talked to the lawyer this and that all those are lie but you told mom did you tell her [26:47] that i'm just joking i'm just trying to be mean to you i don't really mean any of that [26:53] i used to say that at that time no like you know like before like sometimes if i say like yes [26:57] i'm joking like later and then at that moment i did not say like i was joking and by at that moment [27:02] you mean like february and no i did not say come back and then hey i'm joking like you know i did not do [27:08] that how did she act when you talked about divorce panic nervous um and we've talked a little bit about [27:26] this would other members of the nepali community have you observed other people that have gone [27:34] through divorce and how they're treated by the nepali community yes and what is that treatment like [27:45] uh if we are in the similar community uh let's say for example if i did that usually like a lot of [27:52] people not going to invite me their home to for dinner or you know if i invite them still they ignore me [27:59] and then they don't make it socially they don't feel like i'm equal to them even life you know [28:05] financially educationally looks everything good it's still like they treat a little different way [28:11] and then religiously it's a very different very big different but culturally also like different big [28:16] different yes and if you know the answer to this are the are people that are that have gone through a [28:22] divorce treated differently if the reason for the divorce is physical abuse by their spouse some [28:31] people might take it like you know a little you know in their heart but like still like divorce is [28:37] divorced they you know religiously or culturally it doesn't they don't take uh as a good sympathy there [28:45] might be a little bit sympathy who you ask for you know that person might have a sympathy but like you [28:51] know still like if that come to the religious for example i have a sympathy about like somebody did [28:56] that if it come to the you know i invite at my home and some kind of religious program i'm not going [29:02] to let let that person touch my uh whatever the religious religious stuff going on so community is one [29:11] thing and maybe friends are different in terms of the treatment yes ma'am mr bot were you and and we're [29:20] talking about now going forward from february or even december of 2023 through to july were you [29:29] physically harming mamta never none of us i do not remember ever i have physical fight in my life [29:38] but specifically with mom no not at all were you cheating on mamta with other women never and how [29:46] during this time was mamta acting even one time uh one of my you know kind of in my village sisters [29:57] i was talking to her see her husband here in new york and even she called talk to her like you know [30:05] is he talking to some other girls stuff like that and then she called me like you know mom talk to me [30:10] and then is you know her name is bindu so did you are you talking to anybody or like you know and then [30:17] mom talk later i say like what what you did and then she said i suspect that you are talking to [30:22] the girl because she put the picture of the guard uh on the facebook profile she did not put her own [30:27] picture that's why i said it's okay were you paying attention to her during this time no were you happy [30:37] no was she acting like she was happy when making the tick tock video yes otherwise now [30:56] you