Brendan Banfield's Full Cross-Examination

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: good afternoon how are you okay how are you good um so let's understand this is the first time you've told this story or any story about what happened in the bedroom on february 24th 2023 correct yes okay and you did not tell the police on that day in the bedroom you did not tell the police on that day in the hospital you did not tell them when you were back at the station correct [00:00:28] Speaker 2: judge i'd object that we approach we approach [00:00:57] Speaker 1: sorry thank you let's try that again you didn't tell the police in the house you didn't tell them in the driveway you didn't tell them at the hospital you didn't tell them back at the station correct [00:01:09] Speaker 3: i said what i did on the 911 call i was not questioned i was not questioned by the police at the house in the driveway in the ambulance about what had happened okay but you were questioned at [00:01:22] Speaker 1: the police station you didn't tell them then right actually i was not questioned at the police station okay um it's been three years you have not had an opportunity to tell the police in the last three [00:01:33] Speaker 3: years what happened yes they have requested to yes they have requested to speak to me um the police did request to detective bryant i believe requested to speak to me at the hospital not at the not at the police station um and yes they did request to speak to me through my attorney um subsequently okay and you [00:01:55] Speaker 1: were given the opportunity to tell a court what happened when you were brought in to testify at juliana's preliminary hearing correct yes okay and at that point in time you didn't tell anybody this story right [00:02:08] Speaker 3: i was advised that uh that defense of others or is not relevant for is not relevant for uh preliminary hearings and it was my intention that i was going to testify at juliana's trial okay but at the preliminary [00:02:28] Speaker 1: hearing you didn't even admit to christine being your wife correct i was that's what i was instructed to by my attorney okay so now that you've heard all of the evidence every possible hearing that could happen in this case has happened now you are ready to tell us what happened is that accurate i was ready [00:02:46] Speaker 3: to tell what happened at juliana's testimony at juliana's trial when that was scheduled for november and i've been waiting to do that for mine i was expecting my trial to be earlier than this too [00:02:59] Speaker 1: but at no point in time have you reached out to law enforcement to tell them no at no point have you had your counsel reach out to law enforcement to tell them this story actually i did have your wife excuse me i'm not finished you have not asked anyone to talk about how you saved your wife or tried [00:03:15] Speaker 3: to save your wife have you actually i did i i told council that i would participate in any of the uh civil investigations that was going to be involved with my agency and that i would talk to them regarding this case as they required okay did you do that they did not they did not take it up was my understanding because i believe that fairfax police did not want them to okay understood um your affair [00:03:42] Speaker 1: with juliana began in august of 2022 correct yes okay you took trips together correct yes you communicated with her on discord is that correct yes tell us a little bit about discord is that a messaging app that is secret if you will no no okay it's on your phone yes okay and the two of you elected to communicate that way why not with facebook messenger like you communicated with christine your wife [00:04:15] Speaker 3: um i think discord is my favorite messenger app and i use it a lot both with my friends and uh the gaming groups that i was in um christine did not use christine did not use discord okay [00:04:34] Speaker 1: you indicated earlier in your testimony yesterday i think um that this affair with juliana was really a nothing right this was just an affair you had had others this was not a relationship correct [00:04:51] Speaker 3: i would say that it was that it was a relationship but it is an affair but i wouldn't categorize it as [00:04:57] Speaker 1: serious not serious okay did you love her there was points that i told her that i loved her you told her that you love her but you didn't actually love her i would say i would say that i had feeling that i [00:05:13] Speaker 3: had feelings for her but they weren't nearly as strong as feelings for my wife understood okay so let's [00:05:20] Speaker 1: take a look um judge i'd like to have displayed to the witness in council commonwealth 244 all right so mr manfield these are your discord messages with juliana do you recognize the username apocd2 yes that's my discord so you can see has some more numbers after that d21 [00:05:56] Speaker 3: all right all right and that's you right uh yes that is my that is my discord okay and juliana is [00:06:03] Speaker 1: identified as juliana is that correct uh it appears to be okay so if we look at line 30 which i'll highlight for you here february 14th valentine's day 2023 juliana tried to break up with you right [00:06:25] Speaker 3: juliana broke up with me numerous times okay on this occasion she said i told you i'm seeing other [00:06:32] Speaker 1: people we spoke about this already i won't be going speaking of this trip to new york that you were going to take with valerie right um i'm sure you two will have lots of fun something to that effect yes okay this upset you didn't it um no no okay you you you beg her in the next several messages to please talk to you correct how are you do you want to talk we can chat we'll scroll up so you can see more and those are a [00:07:17] Speaker 3: a different day that appears [00:07:25] Speaker 1: well it looks like it's within hours it yes midnight happens and we've moved into another day but you're still asking if [00:07:34] Speaker 3: you can talk to her right no that appears to be what it says okay judge i'd offer into evidence [00:07:41] Speaker 1: commonwealth 244 the discord messages the objection all right 244 and evidence and judge if that's been published the jury will let it linger for a second and then if we can take it down judge if we can move to display to the witness and to council commonwealth 245 mr manfield i'm going to just scroll through it let me know if you recognize this letter [00:08:26] Speaker 3: yes [00:08:48] Speaker ?: yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes [00:09:23] Speaker 1: all right all right do you recognize this letter [00:09:25] Speaker ?: yes yes [00:09:25] Speaker 1: and this is your letter to juliana correct written while she's incarcerated is that correct [00:09:31] Speaker ?: yes [00:09:31] Speaker 3: okay [00:09:32] Speaker 1: is it fair to say that in this letter you profess your undying love for juliana [00:09:40] Speaker 3: it uh yes it appears that i was i was definitely in love with her definitely starting in this definitely starting in the summer of 23. [00:09:51] Speaker 1: oh okay so it was just before she was arrested that you were fully in love with her [00:09:58] Speaker 3: well that's when we had an opportunity to actually have a bit of a relationship with other points were obviously very separated i mean i was still spent i was still working a lot i christine was christina was obviously still around and i was spending a lot of time with her so it wasn't really until it wasn't really until the summer of 23 that [00:10:30] Speaker 1: we had we had a lot of time together okay but in this letter you're talking about the memories of times you spent together before christine's death correct [00:10:43] Speaker 3: um it seems like some of them were before and some are after [00:10:47] Speaker 1: okay and and the long hot cuddle was that before christine's death no that was after it was [00:10:54] Speaker 3: we rode a bike and got went to lunch and uh [00:11:03] Speaker 1: got caught in the got caught in the rain okay uh judge i'd offer this is commonwealth's 245. any objection 245 in evidence and again you you described here in the very first paragraph ish you came here and we fell in love but you're suggesting that that love didn't happen until after christine was dead [00:11:35] Speaker 3: as i said that we did have feelings for each other uh prior but i would not describe them as the level of feelings that i had for my wife of 19 years [00:11:51] Speaker 1: all right judge if i can discontinue the display all right and if i can have commonwealth's 246 shared with counsel and the defendant mr banfield this one's 14 pages so i'm not going to belabor this but this is another love letter to juliana is that accurate no it looks that way [00:12:30] Speaker 2: i'm sorry i don't know that he's actually identified it i think he's just agreed with [00:12:42] Speaker 1: her oh i'm sorry i thought he said yes this was his letter to juliana this is your letter to juliana yes all right 246 in evidence and here you said that she's her your gym partner helped you to be the strongest in your life you've never had a consistent partner before [00:13:09] Speaker 3: yes that was referring to a gym partner [00:13:21] Speaker 1: i am obsessed with your happiness yes but again all of this is after kirsteen had passed if you look at that and also that i declared [00:13:36] Speaker 3: that she was a hero because in my view she saved my life that day i think it's easier to fall in love with somebody that it's saved you [00:14:04] Speaker 1: all right and i'm going to have you take a look judge if we can pull this down commonwealth 247 do you recognize this item yes all right and this is another love letter to juliana yes all right judge at office and two evidence is commonwealth 247 any objection 247 okay and if we can pull this down i can have you take a look at commonwealth 250 do you recognize this letter yes again you to juliana yes and this one you're discussing baby names for your future children with her that is something that you want to talk about okay uh judge i would offer this into evidences commonwealth 250 any objection 250 in evidence all right but you are contending again these feelings these very strong feelings these let's be together for the rest of our lives feelings did not exist when your wife was alive correct okay and they certainly did not motivate you to kill your wife [00:15:56] Speaker 3: we weren't even together when when christine died all right [00:16:05] Speaker 1: you had broken up is that correct yes okay did you need to kill your wife to get her back definitely not okay you've had multiple affairs correct yes okay and one of those affairs was with a woman named danielle who you met on a fetish site searching for sugar babies is that correct [00:16:30] Speaker 3: i would not call it a fetish site okay what would you call it [00:16:38] Speaker 1: an arranged relationship okay but you were looking for someone to be your sugar baby [00:16:47] Speaker 3: i guess it was a relationship where they would already know that i was married that was what i was looking for [00:16:56] Speaker 1: okay um another one of your affairs was with your best friend's wife is that correct [00:17:05] Speaker 3: no no first he's not my best friend number two they were not married they were not even together at that [00:17:11] Speaker 1: point they were is that your understanding of what they believed or is that how you perceived their relationship did they think they were together [00:17:26] Speaker 3: i don't think so she my understanding is that she wanted to be with him and they were not together at that point okay but no they were and they were definitely not married at that point or anything [00:17:37] Speaker 1: like that okay but you were married at that point yes i was married at that point all right thank you um let's talk about christine and her apparent decision to solicit someone to fake rape her you would agree you have not seen today nor are you aware of any phone history computer history indicating that she was interested in this type of relationship prior to january of 2023 correct [00:18:18] Speaker 3: i was aware that she was interested in this in this type of thing but i was unaware of the messages or that she was pursuing this again [00:18:28] Speaker 1: has that been many years since she had expressed those feelings okay but there is no internet history that you're aware of predating january 2023 correct [00:18:44] Speaker 3: i'm not could you answer that pass that a different way okay [00:18:48] Speaker 1: um um when from what you've seen in court she sets this up she's using a profile picture from a gym bathroom with like a barbie doll i think it's an ariel doll in the picture and that's a photo that she sent to you on that day correct yes okay um did she have any other pictures in her facebook cache that she could have used that you're aware of i don't know okay you never looked at her facebook [00:19:21] Speaker 3: yes i look at her face at her facebook but i don't use social media very much [00:19:26] Speaker 1: okay um you presented us with 20 plus pictures yesterday were any of those photos available to her they all came from her facebook page correct i don't know where they came from i didn't arrange for them oh okay those weren't your photos that you were sharing with us some of them appeared to be my [00:19:43] Speaker 3: photos but i don't know some of them i believe were my mother's some of them i think were christine's a lot of times christine and i we would if we were to share photos we shared them on messenger okay all [00:19:56] Speaker 1: right and in the pictures that you all had shared on messenger there was not a single other photo of christine where she wasn't in a public bathroom that she could have used as her profile photo [00:20:12] Speaker 3: i'm sure she could choose whatever profile photo she would have wanted i i don't know why i mean she took it appears that she took the photo that day and used the photo that day for herself okay [00:20:31] Speaker 1: when these solicitations occurred between christine and the other users on fetlike she was looking for someone that she expected to engage with her sight unseen correct there were there were not to be any meetings in public in advance of this hookup that is that is what the messages seem to appear okay and she was only doing this when either you or juliana were home correct [00:21:05] Speaker 3: it appeared to me that it happened when i was not home based on what was presented today often right but juliana was home correct i don't necessarily know where juliana was at those points you just know that you weren't there correct well we went through we went through lots of the evidence that showed that there was many times that i wasn't there there was points that it showed that the messages were logged into from the cbrn email that that juliana states that she has no knowledge of never logged into doesn't know the password to and so if so if juliana is the home whether she is or not the only other person that is home is christine that can use that can but most importantly you are not home correct it appears that there was many messages that were sent while i was home and many messages [00:21:57] Speaker 1: that were sent while i wasn't home i am asking you were not home there is both messages that from [00:22:03] Speaker 3: when i was home and when i was not home it appears okay so [00:22:10] Speaker 1: the person that she picked again was one who was willing to come to her home not a hotel without any sort of public meetup first as seemed to be the ask for most of the other participants on fat life accurate i didn't read the other messages between other people okay um and this person needed to be willing to bring a knife correct i don't know okay i didn't see an ask for the knife no problem you were present for your daughter's birth you remember that yes okay and at that time were you aware that christine received medication to [00:22:47] Speaker 3: address her blood clotting disorder my experience is that she did not that they were that they tested her in her prenatal experience and that she did not require a medication for it but they were going to [00:23:02] Speaker 1: monitor her for it during the delivery okay because you were aware she had a blood clotting disorder [00:23:07] Speaker 3: correct i am aware that she has a blood clotting disorder okay [00:23:15] Speaker 1: so when you set this whole thing up i didn't set this whole thing up i'm sorry when christine set this whole thing up it was scheduled to occur minutes after her family was leaving the house at 7 a.m ish correct i don't know what time her family was leaving the house oh you hadn't shared with her your plan to go to your meeting [00:23:35] Speaker 3: early the next morning i don't have a i didn't have a meeting the next i'm sorry can you ask the [00:23:42] Speaker 1: question again sure the night before on the 23rd right 23rd sorry she is setting this up she's scheduling it to occur at 7 20 ish a.m which was going to be minutes after everyone had left the house to go to the zoo to go to the big meeting right that is what the messages seem to say okay and are you telling us that your wife was not aware that you had this big meeting scheduled for the 24th okay she was aware that i had the meeting scheduled okay and was she aware that the nanny was taking your daughter to the zoo uh it appears to me that she or she arranged for [00:24:25] Speaker 3: juliana take valerie to the zoo she got the tickets to the parking tickets to take her to the zoo she had planned it i don't know a week 10 days prior right and and the zoo opens at eight o'clock and [00:24:38] Speaker 1: everyone's leaving at seven but she scheduled joe ryan to come over at 720 is that correct i don't know what time she scheduled exactly okay and you indicated that you were not aware that she had taken february 24th off until just the day before right that is correct okay but that's not accurate because her parents were scheduled to come while you were going to be out of town the night of the 24th [00:25:06] Speaker 3: isn't that correct i believe they were coming in the evening and then she would already be back from [00:25:11] Speaker 1: work i see so your expectation was that she was working that day but their expectation and everyone [00:25:19] Speaker 3: else's expectation is that she would be home i don't believe it was ever stated that she was going to be home that they aware they were aware that she was going to be home my experience was that she was scheduled to work until that day but her parents were coming for dinner i don't know if they were coming for dinner i don't i think they were traveling through i don't know why they were coming exactly okay because i think they were going to florida or continuing on okay and it would be your contention [00:25:48] Speaker 1: that on the morning of this planned tryst she took her phone and turned it off herself and put it in the kitchen drawer i don't know i did not see her turn off the phone okay you didn't see her with her [00:26:04] Speaker 3: phone at all i saw her with her phone in the morning when i was getting ready you did yes okay and she [00:26:10] Speaker 1: was on her phone in the morning when you were getting ready yes she had her phone in the morning and you [00:26:15] Speaker 3: said that was 6 30. roughly i mean i was in and i was in and out getting ready in that morning so it's [00:26:22] Speaker 1: hard to say an exact time so then would it surprise you if the digital forensics mr lidski's work would show that she was not on her phone at 6 30 or really any time before or after that with any i saw her with [00:26:36] Speaker 3: her phone it was on the bed she had the laptop also on the bed got it okay so she she was just with the [00:26:44] Speaker 1: phone not using the phone yes i see let's talk about what happened in the room that morning you leave the house you go to mcdonald's and you're in the bathroom there for seven minutes is that correct i believe that's what the time showed okay and you you don't leave the bathroom until juliana [00:27:10] Speaker 3: calls you at 7 37 is that correct i believe that's the time i don't have the time in front of me okay [00:27:18] Speaker 1: but as you're leaving the bathroom you don't call 9-1-1 i did not okay and you don't tell juliana to call 9-1-1 you don't run out of mcdonald's we've seen you on the video you walk to your car i thought i looked like i was walking faster than normal okay but you're not concerned you said at this point in time you didn't have any reason to worry you thought maybe she was just having an affair another one correct that was my original thought okay so out of curiosity if she's having another affair why are you going back to the house at all why didn't you tell juliana just to go to the zoo with valerie don't worry about it it's just another affair well i mean i'm not going to be telling [00:28:02] Speaker 3: juliana about christine's affairs that's not uh something i would discuss with her why not you're having an affair with juliana we discussed basically nothing about christine together she didn't want to [00:28:17] Speaker 1: know anything about christine okay so you're leaving the mcdonald's you're heading back home [00:28:24] Speaker 3: to catch your wife in the affair then i was very unsure of what was going on at that point it went through my mind that it was possibly going to be an affair but i did not know what it was [00:28:38] Speaker 1: okay so when you arrive at the house you're saying that juliana brings valerie in after you to the [00:28:46] Speaker 3: basement is that correct yes and she also said that she followed me later she didn't say that i told [00:28:52] Speaker 1: her okay and at that point in time again you're still thinking you're just busting your wife having [00:28:57] Speaker 3: sex with some guy i did not know once again exactly what was going on that was a consideration that it was possible that she was going that she was having an affair but i did not know what was happening at [00:29:09] Speaker 1: that time okay but be it catching her in an affair or this question marks something else that you haven't defined why wouldn't you tell the babysitter to take your daughter back outside [00:29:23] Speaker 3: i believe that she was safe in the basement i thought they were okay there i did not perceive that they were in danger at that time i did not tell i told them to stay at the car i don't know why [00:29:35] Speaker 1: she chose to come to the house okay but you're law enforcement and this is your house you're not going to tell them what to do to ensure that they are safe when you have this doubt about what's going on [00:29:50] Speaker 3: i understand i understand that and it may have been a mistake that i didn't send them back that i didn't send them back out and it's something [00:29:59] Speaker 1: that i've thought about many times okay um you indicated that you haven't drawn your gun until you're on the stairs up to the bedroom and can hear what you think are sex noises coming from [00:30:18] Speaker 3: the bedroom is that correct no i stated that uh when i was on the main floor i believed that there were that the noises were sex moaning things like that but later on when i was climbing the stairs i had already changed my thought and i thought that the what i believe are strikes um sounded too [00:30:44] Speaker 1: sharp to right your mind changed it wasn't sex anymore now it sounded bad yes okay um at that point in time there's a lock on the outside of your basement door correct yes okay you didn't lock the basement door did you i'm not sure i've ever locked that well the lock is there isn't it it was there when it [00:31:10] Speaker 3: came with the house i don't believe i've ever used that lock at any point okay but it would have [00:31:15] Speaker 1: presumably kept your babysitter and your child from leaving the basement and following you as we know juliana did up to the room where bad things were now happening right i guess that's possible but i didn't [00:31:28] Speaker 3: i never thought of that lock it's not something that's in my general thought pattern as it's not [00:31:34] Speaker 1: something we ever use okay so you followed your training and pulled your weapon and walked up the stairs with the gun out is that accurate yes okay and when you turned and saw juliana had followed you at that point in time you're worried that bad things are happening correct yes i am did you tell her to call 911 at that point no i was moving quickly towards the door did you tell her to go back downstairs and get your daughter out of the house at that point i wasn't worried about juliana at that point i was worried about christine okay and you weren't worried about your daughter at that point either [00:32:15] Speaker 3: then right i don't think i don't think valerie was on the top of my mind when i believe that christine is being injured and that was at the top of my that was at the forefront of my mind so you get up to the [00:32:32] Speaker 1: room with your gun drawn and you see what's happening you see joe ryan behind your naked wife with something metal in his hand is that accurate yes okay and at that point in time you yelled police correct yes okay you didn't shoot no you did not yell for juliana who's behind you to call 9-1-1 [00:33:01] Speaker 3: i didn't know that juliana was behind me or had climbed the stairs at that point i had only seen her on the main floor leave at the door i did not see her climb the stairs at that point okay but you [00:33:13] Speaker 1: told us that the foyer is this big echoey chamber that you can hear from anywhere in the house if she's in the foyer and you're standing at the door whether or not she's immediately behind you if you yelled call 9-1-1 she would hear you wouldn't she in this echoey foyer yes she would hear that okay but she [00:33:30] Speaker 3: didn't do that did you i was focused on i was focused on the tense situation that was in front of me [00:33:37] Speaker 1: okay your honor i'm going to ask for just a moment while i walk back in that's not a moment while i walk back in front of me i'm going to walk back in front of me i'm going to walk back in front of me and i walk back in front of me and i walk back in front of me Mr. Banfields, is this the person that you saw when you entered the bedroom? Yes. Judge Bryan? Yes? Yes. Judge at this time, I'd offer Commonwealth 251 into evidence. Any objections? [00:34:35] Speaker 2: You're on object to relevance. Overruled, 251 into evidence. [00:34:42] Speaker 1: So, this man, Joseph Bryan, planned to kill your wife, having left this completely discoverable trail on the internet. Is that correct? [00:35:02] Speaker 3: I have no idea what his plans were. [00:35:05] Speaker 1: Okay. So, you think maybe he came for another reason and then at some point his mind changed? I don't know. [00:35:12] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:35:13] Speaker 1: Did he say anything to you that would lead you to believe that he stabbed your wife on the spur of the moment? [00:35:20] Speaker 3: I mean, it appeared to be somewhat related to me telling him that I was going to arrest him. But besides that, I'm unsure. Okay. [00:35:31] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, then let's nail this down. I thought you had said that when you entered the room, the knife is in his hand, the other hand's maybe on her neck, somewhere in her hair, and she's already bleeding, correct? [00:35:44] Speaker 3: I believe that there was already blood in her hair. [00:35:47] Speaker 1: Okay. So, in your version of this, he had already stabbed her when you walked in the room? [00:35:52] Speaker ?: I believe so. [00:35:53] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:35:54] Speaker 1: And you then saw him stab her? I guess I'm not sure. [00:35:59] Speaker 3: It could have been at that same time that he already has the knife to her neck. So, I don't know that he stabbed her before or that it was at that point that the knife is already to her neck that the blood goes to her hair. [00:36:15] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I'm sorry. Let's go back then and talk about your testimony. You described that when you came in, Christine was moaning/yelled. You thought she was being stabbed. She went to her left, and it seemed he, Joseph Ryan, was putting forward movements. That's what you testified to, right? So, that would be the first stab that you saw. [00:36:40] Speaker 3: The knife is inside of her hair, which would be at the location of her neck. I can't tell. She was, Christine was yelling and obviously in pain. So, I wouldn't, I might think that she was already had the knife pressed to her at that point. [00:37:02] Speaker 1: So, we know from the medical examiner, and you know because you got to hear it, that she was stabbed seven times and then had an eight cutting wound, correct? [00:37:12] Speaker 3: I didn't know, I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but yes, that sounds familiar. [00:37:17] Speaker 1: Okay, and you've described for us that she's already bleeding and that you see a forward movement, but you can't really tell what happened, right? And then you told us a bit ago that there's an exchange between you and Joe Ryan. You tell him to let her go at least one more time after this exchange, and it appears that he forcefully stabs Christine. She spins away toward you and lands on her stomach on the ground. So, there's one clear stab. [00:37:54] Speaker 3: It's not, it's not towards me, it's away from me. [00:37:56] Speaker 1: Okay, but that's, that is one moment when you see Joe Ryan stab Christine, correct? [00:38:02] Speaker 3: Yes, and then downward after she hit, after she went to the floor. [00:38:05] Speaker 1: Okay, so you believe that's another stab? [00:38:08] Speaker 3: I'm only positive of the two. [00:38:10] Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got two. So, there's five more. When did he stab her those other five times? [00:38:17] Speaker 3: The knife is inside of her hair. I can't tell the movement. I can't tell how that is, how that is looking at that time. And I don't know exactly what happened before I arrived either. [00:38:29] Speaker 1: Okay, well, she had to get five more wounds at some point. And you're telling us that when you get into the room, she's capable of speech, correct? Yes. Okay, she says a lot of stuff. She says that you, you know, he's got a knife, right? Brendan, he's got a knife. Yes. She says that. And she says at one point that she wants you to put more pressure on her neck, correct? [00:38:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, she told me to put my hand there and then she put more pressure on my hand. [00:39:04] Speaker 1: And then at one point she tells you she can't see, correct? Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:39:11] Speaker 1: And all of this talking is happening with what at that point in time has to be all seven of the wounds in her neck, correct? Yes. [00:39:21] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:39:22] Speaker 1: Judge, if I can hold down the current display. Take a look at Commonwealth's previously admitted 23. 23 under seal. [00:39:38] Speaker ?: I'm sorry, 22. [00:39:39] Speaker 2: I apologize. 22 under seal. [00:39:41] Speaker 1: All right. And these are the wounds on the left side of her neck, correct? [00:39:51] Speaker ?: Yes. Okay. [00:39:53] Speaker 1: And if I can have the witness and the jury take a look at previously admitted Commonwealth's 25, also under seal. And these are the wounds on the right side of her neck, correct? Yes. Okay. And she's chatting with you with these wounds in her neck, correct? Yes. [00:40:16] Speaker 3: Her voice is very hoarse. She was having difficulty speaking, but yes, she was talking to me. Okay. [00:40:24] Speaker 1: So going back to Joe for a moment, he didn't, you are not aware of what his plan was, whether it be to kill her or that that may have just been something that happened while he was there, correct? I know nothing about Joe Ryan prior to these interactions in the bedroom. [00:40:55] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:40:56] Speaker 1: But you know, from having sat through this trial, what the Commonwealth's evidence is, right? Yes. Okay. And you know that he texted with someone on Christine's laptop that whole morning, correct? Yes. Yes. And you know that he laid out his expected arrival time, correct? [00:41:19] Speaker 3: I don't remember. Okay. [00:41:21] Speaker 1: Did you catch that he stopped at Walmart on his way to your house and bought personal lubricant? Because you're right. [00:41:31] Speaker 2: You're not object. She's, she's. [00:41:33] Speaker 1: What's your legal objection? [00:41:35] Speaker 2: She's talking about the case and she's having him corroborate what their case is. I don't know what that legal objection is. It's not relevant. Overruled. [00:41:45] Speaker 3: I'm aware he went to Walmart. [00:41:49] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're aware he went to Walmart, right? Yes. And then he bought personal lubricants for your wife, correct? [00:41:55] Speaker 3: I guess. I don't know. [00:41:57] Speaker 1: Who may or may not have been intending to murder, correct? [00:42:01] Speaker 3: I don't know why he brought personal lubricant. [00:42:04] Speaker 1: Okay. He left his car parked in your driveway in broad daylight, which you saw, correct? Yes, I did. Okay. And he left his two cell phones in his car per the instructions that your wife gave him on Telegram, correct? [00:42:20] Speaker 3: I guess I saw the pictures on the floor. I didn't know where they were. [00:42:27] Speaker 1: Okay. You said that you heard what you thought initially were sex noises, right? Yes. Okay. But we know from the physical evidence recovery kits that were taken from both Mr. Ryan and your wife that there was no semen, no DNA from Mr. Ryan found in or around your wife's genitalia, correct? That's my understanding. Okay. So how long do you think passed between your instructions to Joe Ryan to put down the knife, let her go, let her go, let her go, and your wife is bleeding before you shot him? Not that long. [00:43:16] Speaker 3: Not that long. Under a minute. [00:43:18] Speaker 1: Under a minute. Okay. So if we were to count out 60 seconds, one, two, three, so on and so forth, that would be a minute. Okay. So in that time, you did not shoot him. [00:43:32] Speaker 3: I did not shoot him. And I did not shoot him prior to Christine going to the floor. Okay. [00:43:39] Speaker 1: And at that point in time that she's going to the floor, we're at least six stab wounds in, right? [00:43:48] Speaker 3: To the best of my knowledge, it's hard to see. Also, I'm aiming down my sight at Joe. And so I'm not focused exactly on Christine. You have a narrowed view when you're aiming down a firearm. [00:44:06] Speaker 1: And you just couldn't pull the trigger, could you? [00:44:10] Speaker 3: I was afraid. Okay. [00:44:12] Speaker 1: And you are a trained law enforcement officer, correct? [00:44:16] Speaker 3: I am, but I have, my shooting record is on the lower end for the qualifications. And there is not a lot, and there's very little space there. And I was afraid of hitting her. [00:44:37] Speaker 1: Okay. Mr. Ryan did not have a gun, correct? [00:44:40] Speaker 3: Not that I'm aware of. [00:44:42] Speaker 1: You also had handcuffs, correct? Yes. You didn't use those to apprehend Mr. Ryan, correct? [00:44:53] Speaker 3: Looking back on it, I should have handcuffed him after my shot. This would be the, would be something that I should have done looking back at it. [00:45:05] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, let's talk about your weapons training. You said that you go to the range monthly to keep up on your skills. Is that correct? [00:45:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say I go roughly every month, every other month when I can. Okay. [00:45:25] Speaker 1: So would it then surprise you that when you took Juliana in October of 2022, that you hadn't been since one time in April and one time in May of that year and prior to that, not since 2020? [00:45:39] Speaker 3: I was going to Blackfish Armory as my primary place. Yes. We had a, our, the Treasury Department had a, had a contract with them and I didn't have to pay for them, but the contract ended. And so then I went back to Silver Eagle Group. [00:45:58] Speaker 1: When did the contract end? [00:46:01] Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but Blackfish Armory actually went out of business. They were in Chantilly, so that was pretty close to me. So that's where I was primarily going prior to Silver Eagle Group. [00:46:17] Speaker 1: Okay. But you were going to Silver Eagle Group in 2020, and then you went to Silver Eagle Group in April and May of 2022. And then in October and December when you took Juliana. So at what point in time did you transition to Silver Eagle Group? [00:46:33] Speaker 3: I mean, I guess I came to Virginia in 2019. So I guess probably in 2019, 2020, 2021, it sounds like I was probably going to Blackfish Armory instead of Silver Eagle Group. [00:46:49] Speaker 1: Well, without speculating, what do you remember doing? [00:46:53] Speaker 3: That's not something that I remember the transition of exactly between the two. Okay. [00:46:59] Speaker 1: Why did you teach Juliana to shoot? [00:47:07] Speaker 3: It was something that we could do together. It was, in terms of many activities, it was something that was going to be out of the house. And generally when I could, or she could, we would do activities together. It was something I was already going to do, and she wanted to come with me. [00:47:26] Speaker 1: Okay. And you gave her the code to your safe in your bedroom, correct? [00:47:34] Speaker 3: She realized that it was the same code as the door when I was putting away my, when I was putting away my gear during the day. [00:47:42] Speaker 1: Okay. So your gun safe code is the same as the door code to your house that your child and wife and babysitter have access to. [00:47:52] Speaker 3: They had their own codes, but my code was, my code was the same between my door and my safe and my safe in my car. It was the same for all of them. [00:48:04] Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So Juliana didn't have the door code because that's how she got in and out of the house. [00:48:10] Speaker 3: She had her own door code to get in and out of the house. [00:48:13] Speaker 1: Okay. So you gave her the code to your safe. [00:48:17] Speaker 3: Those are different. They, I have my own code to the door and she has her own code to the door and my mother has her own code to the door and Christine has her own code to the door. Right. She just being next to me, going in and out of the house, knew my code. [00:48:33] Speaker 1: Okay. So when you observed your babysitter picking up your code because she was able to see, you didn't think that was a good time to change the code? [00:48:45] Speaker 3: It wasn't a concern of mine at that point. I didn't think about it. Also, I don't think I've ever changed the code after the initial setup. It wasn't something that was on my mind. [00:48:58] Speaker 1: Okay. Is that part of your law enforcement training that it's okay for people to have the code to your gun safe? [00:49:05] Speaker 3: I am aware that others in my department had family members that were aware that they knew the code, that they knew their codes. [00:49:14] Speaker 1: Okay. Is this a breaking time for lunch or you let me know? Okay. I only have a little bit left, Judge. If I can have 10 more minutes. That's fine. I won't make everybody starve. Okay. Just a little bit. Thank you. Do you have any life-saving training as a result of your law enforcement background? A little bit. A little bit. Okay. And your life-saving training tells you that Juliana should be the one to call 911 while you are attending to Christine. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. But when Juliana hadn't called 911, you didn't think that was the time at which maybe you should do it? [00:49:57] Speaker 3: I didn't realize that she didn't call 911 immediately because I was focused on Christine. Okay. So I wasn't looking at Juliana after I told her to call 911. I was looking at Christine. [00:50:09] Speaker 1: Okay. So you're also then not aware that Juliana hung up on 911 15 minutes prior to the call where you spoke to them? [00:50:19] Speaker 3: My awareness was that she made that original call in the upstairs room. [00:50:25] Speaker 1: She made the original call in the upstairs room and where were you? [00:50:30] Speaker 3: No. My understanding is that she actually made the call originally while she was in the basement. Oh. [00:50:37] Speaker 1: As per her. Okay. Okay. So you weren't there then is your contention? [00:50:42] Speaker 3: I never heard her make the original call. I never saw her make the original call. [00:50:47] Speaker 1: And you certainly didn't tell her to hang up the phone? No. [00:50:50] Speaker 3: I knew nothing about the original call until far later. Okay. [00:50:55] Speaker 1: So while you are tending to your wife and exchanging hand placement with her over the wounds that we saw, you did not at that point in time use the towel, blanket, the sheet, or the other blanket to staunch the flow of blood from her neck? [00:51:15] Speaker 3: It wasn't until I was instructed to by 911 to do that. Pressure is a different form of treatment that we were taught and that is also what Christine was doing. I believe that that was the best course of action at the time. [00:51:37] Speaker 1: To put pressure on the wound that was so large that your finger went inside of it. Is that correct? [00:51:43] Speaker 3: Yes. Okay. [00:51:45] Speaker 1: And when first responders arrived, you agree you're on video holding her neck with your bare hand, correct? [00:51:56] Speaker 3: I think so. [00:51:59] Speaker 1: So where had the towel, the blanket, the blanket, the sheet gone at that point after you were instructed by 911? [00:52:06] Speaker 3: I think the towel was right next to me, but. [00:52:09] Speaker 1: It was under your knees, wasn't it? [00:52:13] Speaker 3: I don't, I don't know. Okay. I thought it was right next to me. Thank you. [00:52:19] Speaker 1: Nothing further, Judge. All right.