About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Betty Testifies [Part 1] CA v. BRODERICK (1991) — Court TV Trial Archive from COURT TV, published July 8, 2026. The transcript contains 19,986 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"Elizabeth Ann Broderick, B-R-O-D-E-R-I-C-K. Let me pull that microphone down a little towards you there, so... Okay. Ms. Broderick, when were you born? November 7th, 1947. And where were you born? In New York City. Okay, and what area were you raised in, your younger area? In the suburbs, in..."
[00:00:00] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Elizabeth Ann Broderick, B-R-O-D-E-R-I-C-K.
[00:00:09] Speaker 2: Let me pull that microphone down a little towards you there, so... Okay.
[00:00:17] Speaker 3: Ms. Broderick, when were you born?
[00:00:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: November 7th, 1947.
[00:00:22] Speaker 3: And where were you born?
[00:00:25] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In New York City.
[00:00:25] Speaker 3: Okay, and what area were you raised in, your younger area?
[00:00:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In the suburbs, in Westchester County, New York.
[00:00:34] Speaker 3: Okay, and at your birth, what was your name?
[00:00:39] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Elizabeth Ann Bishelia, B-I-S-C-E-G-L-I-A.
[00:00:45] Speaker 3: And how was Elizabeth spelt on your birth certificate?
[00:00:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: B-L-I-Z-A-B-E-T-H.
[00:00:53] Speaker 3: Okay, and have you been known by any other names as you grew up and got older?
[00:00:59] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, my family called me Bootsy when I was little, and then Betty Ann later, and then when I met Dan, he started calling me Betts.
[00:01:10] Speaker 3: And have you had any other nicknames?
[00:01:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: People thought my name was Betsy because he called me Betts, and when I took French in high school, I changed the Z to an S on Elizabeth because I thought that was cool.
[00:01:23] Speaker 3: And did you also be known by Betty people?
[00:01:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Sometimes, yes.
[00:01:28] Speaker 3: And could you tell me a little bit about your education?
[00:01:33] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I was one of six children, and we all went to Catholic schools all the way through. So I went to Immaculate Conception first, and then Maria Regina High School, and then the College of Mount St. Vincent. And the high school and college were all girls' establishments at that time.
[00:01:51] Speaker 3: And now, you went to Catholic girls' schools. Was that also in the lower grades, or was it when you got in the upper grades?
[00:02:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: High school and college.
[00:02:04] Speaker 3: And they were all, I take it, on the East Coast in the New York area?
[00:02:08] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Correct.
[00:02:10] Speaker 3: And where were you in relationship to your brothers and sisters?
[00:02:15] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I'm third of the six.
[00:02:18] Speaker 3: When you were going to school, were you involved in any sports or hobbies?
[00:02:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, we had very full childhoods. We did every sport imaginable. We did horseback riding, and rowing, and snow skiing, and water skiing, and tennis, and badminton, and croquet, and horseshoes, and everything. Golf, everything.
[00:02:42] Speaker 3: Did you take, at any point in time, or one of the things that you did that involved shooting?
[00:02:48] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, and I think it was eighth grade, a summer program at the Catholic Youth Organization. That was one of the activities that we did with Father McHale at our parish.
[00:02:59] Speaker 3: Okay. And what did you shoot at that time?
[00:03:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Twenty-two rifles. Single-shot, bolt-action rifles.
[00:03:09] Speaker 3: Was that with your whole family? I mean, was that with the whole class, individual lessons?
[00:03:14] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: It was a group of teenagers, young teenagers. My brother was in it.
[00:03:21] Speaker 3: Did you work during the time that you were in high school and college?
[00:03:26] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:03:27] Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of jobs did you do?
[00:03:29] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I had three basic categories of jobs. I had fashion jobs, I had children jobs, and I had hostessing jobs.
[00:03:37] Speaker 3: Did you do, was there any retail work that you did with the fashion jobs?
[00:03:41] Speaker 4: Yes. Excuse me, this is working out of high school. I had jumped to the room.
[00:03:46] Speaker 2: Sustained. We're going to something else.
[00:03:48] Speaker 3: Did you, at some point, meet somebody by the name of Dan Broderick?
[00:03:56] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, when I was in, when I just started college.
[00:03:59] Speaker 3: And how did you come to meet Dan Broderick?
[00:04:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I went out to Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana, for a football weekend.
[00:04:08] Speaker 3: And was that something that was planned, that you were going to meet him, accident?
[00:04:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, I didn't know I was going to meet him. He was sitting across from me at the table at a party, and he asked to borrow a pen. And I had a pen, so I lent him my pen.
[00:04:24] Speaker 3: Okay, and what happened?
[00:04:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: He wrote on the tablecloth, his, I found out was his name, and it said, Daniel Thomas Broderick III, M-D-A, and the A was in parentheses. And so I asked him, I said, what's that, what is that? And he said, oh, I just got into medical school. So it's Daniel Thomas Broderick III, M-D-Almost. And it was funny.
[00:04:49] Speaker 3: And how did you find him to be at that time?
[00:04:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: A nice person. It was a very, very loud, very rowdy party. It was the senior class of Notre Dame, and Jerry Lee Lewis himself was right to the right, and it was really noisy, and really crowded, and it was hard to have any kind of a conversation at all.
[00:05:11] Speaker 3: Okay, now did you make arrangements from that time to meet Mr. Broderick sometime in the future?
[00:05:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Not the night I met him. The rest of the weekend, that was Friday night of the weekend.
[00:05:23] Speaker 3: Did, at some point in time, did you communicate either in writing or over the phone with Mr. Broderick after that?
[00:05:46] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, he wrote to me a lot of times.
[00:05:50] Speaker 3: How would you describe, did you write back to him?
[00:05:54] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: The first thing I heard from him was an addiction and a non-responsibility.
[00:05:58] Speaker 3: Did you write back to him at all?
[00:06:04] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: They were telegrams in the beginning, so I didn't write back. It was just telegrams, a bunch of telegrams. But then when he wrote letters, yes, I wrote back.
[00:06:12] Speaker 3: Okay. And at some point in time, did you have an arrangement to meet anywhere?
[00:06:17] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: As a joke, the weekend that I met him, as a joke, we said that when he came to New York the following September, which would have been September 1966, that I would show him around New York because I'm from New York. And so there's a clock in the Biltmore Hotel, which is part of Grand Central Station, where there's a famous meeting place. So I said I'd meet him at the clock on a certain day at a certain time, and that was the weekend that I met him.
[00:06:43] Speaker 3: Was he supposed to be in, was there a reason he was going to be in New York?
[00:06:48] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: To attend. Excuse me, I've checked on relevance grounds.
[00:06:55] Speaker 2: Over rule, excuse me, sustained as to the reason he was going to be in New York, Mr. Broderick. Go ahead.
[00:07:03] Speaker 3: Did you meet him?
[00:07:06] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No. I was scared I didn't go.
[00:07:09] Speaker 3: The, uh, when he, did there, did he establish some kind of residency at New York at that time?
[00:07:17] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, he moved to New York in 19, September 66, to attend a four-year medical school program at Cornell.
[00:07:24] Speaker 3: Okay. And, uh, did you start having more contact with him at that time?
[00:07:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. After I didn't show up at the clock, he called, and I, I agreed to come down and go out with him once.
[00:07:40] Speaker 3: And he was going to medical school at that time?
[00:07:42] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, just, just begun.
[00:07:44] Speaker 3: Now, during the time that the, uh, and did you two start dating regularly at that time?
[00:07:50] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:07:51] Speaker 3: During the, um, time, uh, was there any discussions of marriage during the time of, that you were dating?
[00:08:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, a lot.
[00:08:05] Speaker 3: And, um, and what were those discussions?
[00:08:14] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I didn't find this out until years later, but supposedly the...
[00:08:18] Speaker 4: Objection, John. The question is, what were the discussions at the time that I had? Non-responsive.
[00:08:24] Speaker 2: Sustained.
[00:08:26] Speaker 3: Um, uh, what were the discussions that you had, uh, with Mr. Broderick about being married, about getting married?
[00:08:36] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: As soon as I started going out with him, he wanted to get married.
[00:08:39] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:08:40] Speaker 3: And, um, was that something that both of you talked about?
[00:08:46] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, we talked about it a lot.
[00:08:48] Speaker 3: And what did you tell him?
[00:08:50] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I told him that, you know, I wasn't even thinking about marriage. I had to get my college degree. And at that point, I was only starting my second year of college. And he said that I could do both, that I could marry him and finish my college degree. But I didn't want to do that. I wanted to do it one at a time, because I thought each thing was rather a full-time job.
[00:09:10] Speaker 3: Okay. And, uh, during the, uh, time that the two of you were, uh, dating, were you working?
[00:09:17] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I always worked.
[00:09:18] Speaker 3: Okay. And was Mr. Broderick working at that time?
[00:09:22] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, he was mostly going to school and studying.
[00:09:25] Speaker 3: Okay. And were you, uh, in any way supporting that relationship monetarily with Mr. Broderick?
[00:09:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I had a lot of spending money, because I had a lot of jobs and stuff. So I had social spending money. Dan, Dan only had tuition money and, you know, his school money. So, yeah, I had a lot. Yes, I had a car, and I had disposable income, and it was my turf. It was, he'd never been to New York before, so I knew everyone and where to go and what to do, and, yeah, I used my money.
[00:09:54] Speaker 3: Okay. Um, eventually, did you and Mr. Broderick, uh, get married?
[00:10:00] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, April 69.
[00:10:02] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:10:02] Speaker 3: And what was the, uh, what's the, the, the date? April what?
[00:10:06] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: April 12th, 1969.
[00:10:13] Speaker 3: And had you finished, uh, college at that time?
[00:10:17] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. I graduated six months earlier than my regular class. I sh, I was supposed to get out in June of 69, but I got out in December of 69, of 68, excuse me.
[00:10:28] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:10:29] Speaker 3: Now, uh, during the time that you were dating Mr. Broderick, uh, did, uh, did, uh, did it become clear as to how decisions were going to be made in your relationship?
[00:10:40] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, very, very early on in, in our relationship, I told you it was my car and it was, I had a lot of friends and a lot of things to do. We were driving from the east side to the west side of New York on our way up to Mount St. Vincent to meet a bunch of our, my friends, and he pulled the car over and turned off the key and said, let's just get this straight. You don't tell me what we're going to do, ever. And I said, oh, sorry, I mean, sorry, what do you, what do you want to do? You know, it's no big deal that we do this. What do you want to do? And he said, no, I don't have anything to do. Just don't tell me what to do.
[00:11:14] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:11:15] Speaker 3: And, um, after you got, uh, married, did you go on a honeymoon anywhere?
[00:11:21] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, we spent a, I think it was a week at a private home in St. Thomas.
[00:11:25] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, um, after the, uh, during the honeymoon and after you were then married, was there a, uh, a change in the relationship between you and Mr. Broderick?
[00:11:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, very much so.
[00:11:42] Speaker 3: And what was that change?
[00:11:45] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Well, a dating relationship is entirely different from a marriage. And during the dating relationship, I had my own job and my own money and my own car. And I lived with my parents and I had some freedom and stuff. And after the wedding, he was in charge of everything. And I moved in with him. And, um, he took charge of the bank books and the paychecks and everything. And I more or less had to do what, what he said.
[00:12:11] Speaker 3: Okay. Was that something, uh, did you, uh, at that point, uh, did you cease paying the bills and doing anything with the money that, that you brought in?
[00:12:21] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I never paid the, never paid any bills with my money. Okay.
[00:12:25] Speaker 3: The, um. Now, you indicated you didn't pay any of the bills. From that point on, would you know where the money was or what the finances of the family were?
[00:12:46] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: What I meant about not paying the bills is I always lived with my parents.
[00:12:49] Speaker 5: Excuse me. And not. Sister Ann.
[00:12:54] Speaker 3: Did you have, uh, any idea of the finances of the family or what the money was going to be, how the money was going to be spent?
[00:13:01] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No.
[00:13:02] Speaker 3: The, um, was there, did you come to learn that there was a, uh, name for a woman in the Broderick family? Objection. Sustained at this point. The, um, in one of the tapes that the district attorney played, uh, for you, there was a comment about, uh, uh, uh, too low to kick and too wet to step on. What did that mean?
[00:13:39] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That meant, uh, when I was brought into the Broderick family, Larry Broderick said to me, oh, now you're a yuck. And I said, what's a yuck? And he said, it's too low to kick and too wet to step on. And that's what they called their sisters, were the yucks.
[00:13:57] Speaker 3: The, um. Now, at the time that you were married, what year was, uh, Dan in, uh, medical school?
[00:14:10] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Midway in his third year. Okay.
[00:14:13] Speaker 3: And at that time, were you still working?
[00:14:16] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I had, I had a very good teaching job in Westchester County in New York.
[00:14:21] Speaker 3: Okay. And were you doing any other jobs at that time?
[00:14:26] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I don't remember, remember if I kept, I had overlapping jobs all the time. I, I would have kept Von Witteller for a while, but then in the summer when the teaching job was over, I, I worked in a, in a nursing uniforms place down in New York, right at the hospital. But by that summer, I was pregnant anyway. And then I went back to teaching in September. Do you want me to keep going?
[00:14:49] Speaker 3: Where were you, uh, where were you living during the, uh, that third year in medical school?
[00:14:56] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: When we first got married, I moved into a dormitory room with Dan, which was a little teeny tiny room that adjoined another room by a teeny tiny bathroom. And it wasn't designed for two people to live in it.
[00:15:07] Speaker 3: Okay. When, uh, when you and Dan were courting and married, uh, was he someone you loved?
[00:15:14] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Uh, yes, we had a lot of fun. It was very nice.
[00:15:20] Speaker 3: The, uh, was there any other income at the time in that third going into the fourth year of law school, uh, to live on other than your income?
[00:15:42] Speaker 4: Dan's room was paid for as part of his schooling, so we didn't have rent. I don't know. What's your question? Sorry.
[00:15:54] Speaker 3: Were there other sources of income during that period of time when he was going to medical school other than, for living expenses other than your work?
[00:16:04] Speaker 4: Dan had a few little jobs. He was a, um, New York cab driver for a little while. He worked in a blood lab at nights, sometimes, for some little period of time.
[00:16:15] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: But other than that, I can't remember him working, so no. There was no other source of income.
[00:16:21] Speaker 3: Now, uh, sometime shortly after your honeymoon, uh, did, uh, you find anything about your physical condition?
[00:16:30] Speaker 4: Yes, I got sick right away. After we were married, I got sick.
[00:16:36] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, did you know what it was?
[00:16:40] Speaker 4: I thought it was the flu or something. I was just throwing up and throwing up and throwing up, and I just felt terrible. I was just sick. I kept going to work, and I figured I'd get over it.
[00:16:49] Speaker 3: Okay. Did you eventually find out, uh, what was causing your condition?
[00:16:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I was pregnant.
[00:16:54] Speaker 3: Okay. And, uh, did you continue to work through that pregnancy?
[00:16:59] Speaker 5: Yes, um, in those days, back in the dark ages, and the- The condition, you're not responsive.
[00:17:04] Speaker 3: Sustain. And why did you continue to work through the pregnancy?
[00:17:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We needed the money.
[00:17:17] Speaker 3: The, uh, and how far did you work? Did you work six months of the pregnancy?
[00:17:24] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I worked every single day until literally the day she was born. January 24th, 1970 was a Friday, and I taught school that day, and I went home and had Kim, and I did the report cards in the hospital that weekend, and then did not go back to work on Monday.
[00:17:39] Speaker 3: Now, during that period of time, um, uh, what did you expect of a, uh, a husband of marriage?
[00:17:48] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I expected them to be nice and be supportive and be the father of my children, and that we'd live happily ever after.
[00:17:58] Speaker 3: The, uh, the, uh, was that the, uh, first, uh, child that was born? Yes. And what was her name? Kim. And when was she born?
[00:18:12] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: January 24th, 1970. Okay. Nine months after we're married.
[00:18:17] Speaker 3: Now, you left your teaching job after she was born?
[00:18:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:18:20] Speaker 3: And did you, uh, was there still a need to bring money into the family?
[00:18:25] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Definitely.
[00:18:26] Speaker 3: And what did you do?
[00:18:28] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I didn't want to leave Kim, a brand newborn, with anyone. I didn't have anyone to leave her with in, in New York City, and that's why I didn't go back to my job. So I found a job that I could take her with me. I brought her to a, uh, we lived in a medical complex of several buildings of doctors, and I brought her to the next building over. The woman was in law school full-time, and the man was a research fellow. And they had an eight-month-old daughter, and I minded her as a full-time job every day of the week. And I brought Kim with me. And I also did other babysitting at night, because Dan wasn't home anyway, he was studying.
[00:19:02] Speaker 3: Okay. So in the evening people, people would come in, you would have baby, you would babysit other people's children?
[00:19:08] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Sometimes nurses would bring the kids to me, and sometimes I'd take Kim and go to a doctor's house. Okay.
[00:19:14] Speaker 3: Now during that time, were you doing any other kind of part-time work?
[00:19:18] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Oh, for a while I tried doing, uh, Avon and Tupperware in New York City to make money. Yes. There were nurses and students and things. Okay.
[00:19:31] Speaker 3: And now you were into, and was that tough on Avon, where you have parties where people come to your house? Or back then was it, was it different?
[00:19:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Well, we didn't have, none of us lived in a place big enough to have a party. I lived in these dormitories where we were all little tiny rooms, so it was more door-to-door stuff. Okay.
[00:19:51] Speaker 3: Um, and this was in Dan's last year of medical school?
[00:19:55] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Correct.
[00:19:56] Speaker 3: Okay. Were there any decisions made about the future of the family or what was going to happen after, uh, he finished medical school? Yes.
[00:20:05] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In the fourth year of medical school, you take a series of electives where you decide what area of medicine, from psychiatry to dermatology, you know, what surgery, and you pick electives so that you can choose what area of medicine you might like to go into. One of Dan's electives that he chose was to get on a suit and tie and go downtown to a New York law firm every day and research becoming involved in the medical malpractice field as a lawyer doctor. That was one of the things he researched in fourth year, and he did decide to do that.
[00:20:38] Speaker 3: Okay. And he decided to do what? Go on to medical, law school?
[00:20:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: To become involved in the, in the emerging, it was just starting, medical malpractice field as an attorney that would have a great knowledge of medicine as well. By being a doctor and a lawyer.
[00:20:53] Speaker 3: Now, was that a decision that you were willing to, to live with, um, him going to law school rather than going out and practice as a doctor?
[00:21:04] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, that was, that was fine with me, whatever he wanted to do.
[00:21:07] Speaker 3: And why was that?
[00:21:09] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Because that's a wife's job, you know, whatever the husband wants to do. It was my job to support him emotionally and, you know, psychologically and great, let's do it. So we did it.
[00:21:22] Speaker 3: And was there, um, did you discuss or did you come to understand how the, his legal education would be financed?
[00:21:32] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That was a problem because we, we didn't have any income except mine, which was pathetic. And so we needed to finance the next three years totally on loans.
[00:21:43] Speaker 3: And, um, was there any discussion about, uh, um, night school or some other way where, where, of getting through law school?
[00:21:57] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, he wanted to be a doctor and a lawyer and the options open were to do law school part-time days, um, part-time nights or full-time days. And if he had done one of the part-time things, he could have worked as well, which is how a lot of people get through law school. But, um, he chose to go full-time at Harvard.
[00:22:17] Speaker 3: Okay. Was that something that you were in disagreement about?
[00:22:20] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No. It was, Harvard didn't have a part-time program, but it was very, very expensive.
[00:22:27] Speaker 3: Now, the summer between, uh, uh, the summer between medical school and law school, did you work?
[00:22:37] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We moved to Pittsburgh. We moved entirely out of New York and went to stay with his family in Pittsburgh. He worked as an intern at a local Pittsburgh hospital, and I stayed with his family rent-free with Kim. And then I just did the Tupperware Avon thing as much as I could in the afternoons, but it didn't make much.
[00:22:56] Speaker 3: And the next fall, did, uh, did Dan go to law school?
[00:23:00] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, we moved to Cambridge, Massachusetts in September of '70, and, um, I again took... Objection error.
[00:23:09] Speaker 3: Sustained. The, um, did you, um, did you move, where did you move in Boston?
[00:23:21] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We couldn't afford student housing. We didn't have any money to get into student housing, and we couldn't afford to live in Cambridge around the school. But we had no form of transportation. We had no car at this time, so we couldn't move far away either. So we moved to a community called Somerville, Massachusetts.
[00:23:37] Speaker 3: Okay, and what kind of neighborhood was that?
[00:23:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yeah. Well, at that time, it was a very, very older, rundown neighborhood. Very inexpensive, which is what we needed.
[00:23:50] Speaker 3: The, um...
[00:23:52] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: And Dan had a motorcycle to get to work, to school.
[00:23:55] Speaker 3: Yeah. Did you, and what kind of apartment did you live in?
[00:23:59] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: It was a basement apartment in a very old building. We went downstairs, and the windows looked out on a dug-in hole of cement or something, and all the trash and newspapers and liquor bottles and stuff would be in our windows when we woke up in the morning. The window well.
[00:24:16] Speaker 3: Okay. And during the time that you were in that neighborhood, did you have, was there times where you would have problems with heat and water?
[00:24:21] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. The whole building was very, very old, and it was a Boston winter, and there were times when we had, we were freezing. We had no heat at all. I had to sleep with Kim because I thought she was going to die. She was so cold.
[00:24:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. Did, uh, did you, were you working during that, uh, during that time?
[00:24:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, um, I, a woman law student at Harvard. I minded her child full-time every day. All day, every day.
[00:24:51] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you work at night at all?
[00:24:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I worked at Lord & Taylor in downtown Boston at night.
[00:24:57] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, did you, at some point in time while you were going there, did you have to, uh, get aid to supplement your income? Any kind of food or...?
[00:25:07] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, we got surplus food because we were below poverty level. We had no income to speak of at all.
[00:25:17] Speaker 3: Now, during this time, did you get, uh, pregnant again?
[00:25:21] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I was sick quite soon after moving there. I got sick with, a pregnancy with Lee. And I'm sick the whole nine months.
[00:25:29] Speaker 3: Um, now, during this time was, uh, was Dan working hard that first year?
[00:25:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Absolutely. First year is the hardest year of law school, and he worked very, very hard, and he studied very, very hard.
[00:25:48] Speaker 3: Okay. And so when you're talking about working hard, you're talking about working hard at school and coming along and studying? Correct. Okay. Were you resentful of that fact that he wasn't practicing medicine and making money and was going to law school? Not at all. And why is that?
[00:26:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Because this was the plan that we agreed upon, that he would do the law school, and if you're going to do it, you have to do it well and do it right. And he needed to do that.
[00:26:13] Speaker 3: Um, now, during the time that you were, um, uh, during the, going through this first year of law school, um, how was Dan dressing?
[00:26:25] Speaker 5: Objection.
[00:26:27] Speaker 3: I'll just stand. The, um, well, were you resentful about what, uh, Dan would spend, uh, free money on during that time, or, or, uh, how he would spend it?
[00:26:48] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Neither one of us were spending much money on anything. We didn't, we didn't have any money.
[00:26:56] Speaker 3: The, uh, was a second, um, uh, a second child born at that time?
[00:27:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: July of '71 is Lee's birthday.
[00:27:05] Speaker 3: Okay. So that was the summer after the first year of law school?
[00:27:09] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:27:10] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, and did you work through Lee's pregnancy?
[00:27:20] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In, in the home, as I described earlier, at Lord & Taylor, and that's all I did that first year.
[00:27:27] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you, um, did you have problems with the, uh, pregnancies and the births of, of both children?
[00:27:34] Speaker 2: Objection. I'd like to make an offer proof here, huh? No, go into something else and make an offer proof for the recess.
[00:27:45] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[00:28:06] Speaker 3: During the second year of law school, did you work?
[00:28:10] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. I, uh, I took children in, different children whose mothers were nurses and teachers and things in that, uh, we had moved. Dan's grandmother gave us a car summer between first and second year. So now we were able to move to a apartment that was above ground and I brought, had children in the apartment.
[00:28:33] Speaker 3: Okay. The, um, now between the second and third years of law school, um, did you go anywhere, uh, did the family go anywhere in relationship to a job?
[00:28:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. Between second and third year of law school, it's customary that every student get a clerkship with a law firm and that's what we did and it was in Los Angeles.
[00:28:55] Speaker 3: And, uh, was it any particular type of law firm or any particular reason for going to Los Angeles?
[00:29:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We went to Los Angeles because both of us were interested in exploring the West Coast and seeing if we'd be interested in living there. My, both of our long-term friends, the Woodses, helped us get a job with Overton, Lyman, and Prince was the name of the firm. And I believe they were doing malpractice at the time. And so Dan wanted to see Los Angeles and explore the possibilities of working in a malpractice firm.
[00:29:27] Speaker 3: Did the whole family go to, uh, Los Angeles that summer?
[00:29:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. We had two children on the way out. We drove a Volkswagen from Boston to Los Angeles.
[00:29:37] Speaker 3: Okay. And while you were in Los Angeles that summer, were any plans made in regards to your future?
[00:29:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. We didn't, we didn't like Los Angeles at all. It was really crowded and the, the commute for Dan was really, he just didn't like it. And I met a lady in a playground with the children and she said, boy, if she could live anywhere at all, it'd be San Diego. And I said, where is it? And she said, well, you'd get on five and go south. So one Saturday we got in the Volkswagen with the kids and we went south on five. We didn't know where we were going, but we ended up on, um, kind of vacation village area of Mission Bay. And it was beautiful, sunshiny and it was clean and nobody was there and it was just gorgeous. And we looked, could look across at the city and we saw a few tall buildings. And Dan said, there's gotta be a law firm here. So we went back to LA and looked it up in a guide to law firms. And he wrote to the law firms in San Diego asking if he could look for a job with them. And that summer they wrote back. And so that summer we came down and interviewed San Diego law firms before we went back east.
[00:30:41] Speaker 3: And was there any decisions made at that time as to what you were going to do when you, after he graduated from Harvard? Yes.
[00:30:50] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: The law firm of Gray, Kerry, Ames and Fry were extremely nice to us. They went out of their way to woo us. They wanted Dan very badly and they impressed us a lot and they offered us the moon. And so he took, he took the job with them, but it wouldn't be until the next year that we'd come back for it.
[00:31:10] Speaker 3: And so the, you went back to the third year of law school.
[00:31:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. We drove across country again, but by that time I'm pregnant and sick with the third child.
[00:31:19] Speaker 3: So you were pregnant again in the third year of law school?
[00:31:22] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:31:23] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you work during that, that third year?
[00:31:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: As much as I could. Same as usual. I brought kids in, but that pregnancy I not only got sick the whole time, I was hemorrhaging. Through the whole pregnancy I had what you call placenta privia.
[00:31:40] Speaker 3: Okay. And, uh, was that baby born alive?
[00:31:44] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: The baby was born alive, but died shortly after.
[00:31:48] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, after that happened, uh, did, did you do anything, uh, after that baby died?
[00:31:56] Speaker 4: Objection. Objection.
[00:31:59] Speaker 3: Just rephrase it.
[00:32:00] Speaker 2: Was there anything that you tried to do to yourself after that baby died?
[00:32:03] Speaker 4: Objection rather irrelevant.
[00:32:06] Speaker 2: Well, we're okay, I can answer that.
[00:32:09] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:32:11] Speaker 3: And what was that?
[00:32:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I tried to kill myself.
[00:32:15] Speaker 3: And was there a reason for that? Yes.
[00:32:18] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:32:19] Speaker 4: The...
[00:32:20] Speaker 3: What did you do after, uh, Dan graduated from law school?
[00:32:34] Speaker 4: We drove directly out here.
[00:32:39] Speaker 3: And did you, uh, you moved to San Diego? Yes. And where in San Diego did you, did you live?
[00:32:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We found an apartment in Serra Mesa near the stadium in the Plum Tree apartment complex. It was brand new at that time. Okay.
[00:32:54] Speaker 3: And...
[00:32:55] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: And I was within walking distance of a Catholic school and I got a job there teaching school. Okay.
[00:33:01] Speaker 3: And did you, um, and did you, um, and what kind of job was it at a Catholic school? Were you registered, were you a certified teacher in California?
[00:33:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Not in California, no. No. I don't have a California credential. Okay.
[00:33:18] Speaker 3: The... So this was a private school?
[00:33:20] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: A little Catholic grammar school, yes. Okay.
[00:33:24] Speaker 3: And did, uh, was, uh, Dan working, uh, when you moved here?
[00:33:29] Speaker ?: Yes.
[00:33:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. We moved here to start the job at Great Carey. So that job was confirmed and assured before we even arrived. Yes. As soon as we came here.
[00:33:39] Speaker 3: And do you remember approximately how much Dan was making when you started working?
[00:33:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I really have no idea, but I think 17,000. I have no idea. The...
[00:33:51] Speaker 3: Did you... Other than the, uh, than teaching in the school, um, in the Catholic, uh, private Catholic school, did you do, did you have any other jobs when you first moved to San Diego? Yes.
[00:34:06] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: The, the fifth grade teaching was in the afternoons. And so I thought I could, um, do everything with the children in the house in the morning. And then when they, they were only two and three at the time. Stay.
[00:34:17] Speaker 3: Did you have, uh, problems with the, uh, job that you did have? Objection. Sustained. Well, did you leave that job? Yes, I did. And was there a reason for that? Yes. Sustained. Did you find, uh, other employment? Yes, I did.
[00:34:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I did. Yeah.
[00:34:49] Speaker 3: And, uh, what kind of jobs were those?
[00:34:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I started working nights because I could get a lot more hours in. And I wouldn't have the anxiety and the problem with leaving the children with someone. I never liked to leave the kids and, and go out. Um, so I, I worked at a Black Angus restaurant as a hostess from 4:35 in the evening until like 2 in the morning. I closed the place.
[00:35:17] Speaker 2: Are we gonna take a recess this morning, Your Honor, or? Is it a good time, Matt? If, if we are gonna take a recess, it would be a good time. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, take our morning recess at this time. Please remember the admonition. Is 10 minutes long enough, Mr. Early? No longer. Uh, however long, uh, 10 minutes long enough, folks. We have recessed until about 12 after 11. Fournier versus Elizabeth Broderick. Court finds all members of the jury panel are present. All council are present. Ms. Broderick is on the witness stand. You may proceed, Mr. Early.
[00:35:48] Speaker 3: Yes, now during the, um, what was your, uh, up to that point, what was your social life like?
[00:36:05] Speaker 5: Objection on a vague as to what point we're referring to.
[00:36:08] Speaker 3: Well, sustained, just rephrase it, Mr. Early. Okay. Uh, we've now gone, uh, through your marriage and you've moved to San Diego. Uh, what had been your social life up to that point?
[00:36:23] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In medical school, we lived in a dormitory where it was other married or unmarried students. So we were very, very social and I didn't have the children then. And then in Boston, we didn't have any money and we didn't live near where any other students lived. So I was particularly, totally isolated and we didn't do anything socially. We had no money. Okay.
[00:36:43] Speaker 3: And, um, when you, uh, first moved to San Diego, uh, were you spending lots of money on social lives?
[00:36:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, it wasn't lots of money, but the Gray Care, Ames and Frye firm is extremely social. We were very, became instantly very social only within that firm.
[00:37:01] Speaker 3: And during that period of time, um, were you spending lots? How were, how was you and Dan dressing at that time? Dan always dressed beautifully.
[00:37:14] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Always. Even before I, I came into the picture, he was meticulous about his clothing. In medical school, he wore, uh, Uh,
[00:37:24] Speaker 2: Sustained. Your Honor, while we're at this point, I'd like to make an offer of proof. Well, we've passed this point. We're to, where they've moved to San Diego and he has a job with Gray Carey. Now we're going back to talk about medical school again? Yeah, I'm asking about their clothing and how they spent money. At the time they're in San Diego, fine, she can answer that.
[00:37:44] Speaker 3: Um, time that you were in, uh, San Diego, uh, were you spending, how were you dressing at that time? Spending lots of money on clothes?
[00:38:05] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I, um, myself, just me?
[00:38:12] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:38:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No.
[00:38:14] Speaker 3: The, um, Now during this, uh, after you moved to San Diego and, and you were in the apartment, did anything happen to move out of the apartment?
[00:38:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: There was a shootout at the apartment. Someone robbed a Bank of America and they ran into the apartments and they were shooting all over the place. And we moved out after that.
[00:38:40] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you move into a duplex?
[00:38:42] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We moved into a rented home in Claremont, yes.
[00:38:44] Speaker 3: Okay. And eventually did something happen to that?
[00:38:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That house burnt down.
[00:38:48] Speaker 3: Okay. And, uh, did you, um, do anything with the, at, at that time, as far as, where did you move after that house burned down? When that house burned down?
[00:39:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: When that house burned down, the insurance put us in a temporary... The protection of the, not as long as possible.
[00:39:11] Speaker 3: So, when you moved out, uh, did, were you able to, did anything happen with insurance at that point in time or did you get any money from that?
[00:39:20] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. When the house burned down, it was not our home. It was a rental home. So we got insurance for the contents. All of our possessions burnt, except for the bedrooms. So we still had our clothes. But as far as furniture and kitchen and stereos and records and books and, and the furniture, the little bit of furniture that we had, we had bought on time anyway from, I think the Broadway or something. So we got reimbursed by insurance for our possessions that burnt in that fire.
[00:39:49] Speaker 3: And what did you do at the, uh, what did you do with that money?
[00:39:54] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Okay. We were forced out of the rental after the fire repairs.
[00:39:57] Speaker 5: I'm sorry, not in response. The question is what did you do with the money?
[00:40:01] Speaker 3: Stand. First of all, what did you do with the money?
[00:40:07] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We used it as a partial down payment on a house. Okay.
[00:40:11] Speaker 3: And where was that house? In La Jolla.
[00:40:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Okay.
[00:40:14] Speaker 3: Now after, um, you, after you, and what was the address of that house?
[00:40:25] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Five, five, five, five, five, five, Coral Reef Ammonick. Okay.
[00:40:29] Speaker 3: Now, um. Um. I have just one on my car.
[00:40:52] Speaker ?: Sure. Um.
[00:40:52] Speaker 3: Um.
[00:40:53] Speaker ?: Um. Thank you.
[00:41:24] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[00:41:54] Speaker 3: And you used the insurance money to buy that house?
[00:42:12] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: It was only enough for a partial down payment. We had to get two mortgages. One mortgage was the rest of the down payment, and then the other mortgage was a regular mortgage.
[00:42:21] Speaker 3: Do you remember what you paid for that house? Approximately?
[00:42:26] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: $80,000 or $90,000.
[00:42:27] Speaker 3: And did the, at that time, did you pay off the loan for the furniture?
[00:42:35] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, we bought that furniture on an installment credit card at a department store, and for the next three years, we were paying for the furniture on a monthly basis that had burnt three years ago. Because we had used all the replacement fire money to buy the house.
[00:42:54] Speaker 3: Now, did, and what were you, what was the home on coral reef furnished with at that time?
[00:43:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: It had some, it had, we had bedroom furniture because our bedrooms didn't burn, so the kids, we had beds. But insofar as furniture, we didn't have anything. And there was a built-in kitchen with bar stools, so that's what we had to sit on to eat. And then we really didn't have anything downstairs at all.
[00:43:19] Speaker 3: Did it, did there come some point in time where you got something in the house to sit on, at least when family or friends came over?
[00:43:25] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, Larry Broderick had more money than we did, and when he came to town, he bought us table and chair, aluminum patio furniture, and two lounge chairs, and a little table between them. And we'd sit outside on that stuff in the daytime, and then at night, we'd carry it in, we'd sit in the house on it.
[00:43:45] Speaker 3: Now, what year was, you had a, your first son is Danny?
[00:43:54] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Daniel Thomas Broderick the fourth.
[00:43:56] Speaker 3: And what year did he be born in?
[00:43:58] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: 76, February 23rd, 76.
[00:44:02] Speaker 3: Now, at some point in time, was there some problems developed between you and your husband in regards to the amount of time he was spending at work, or away from home?
[00:44:16] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. All through, through school, I was very careful to give Dan a lot of space so that he could study, and it was my job to keep the house clean, and the kids quiet, and away from him, so he could study.
[00:44:28] Speaker 3: Okay, what did you explain to us, those problems?
[00:44:33] Speaker 5: Objection, no, no, no.
[00:44:36] Speaker 2: The question had to do, Mr. Rowley, with whether or not she became upset with him spending too much time at work. Okay, from 76, do you want to re-ask that question?
[00:44:49] Speaker 3: If I may back up a minute, first of all, and if you can answer this, yes or no, and then I'll ask something. All right. Were there problems that were developing between you and Daniel Broderick at that time?
[00:45:01] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:45:02] Speaker 3: Thank you. What were those problems?
[00:45:04] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: His non-involvement with myself and the children, his absence.
[00:45:09] Speaker 3: And was there discussions about the source of those problems, first start, yes or no?
[00:45:14] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:45:14] Speaker 3: Okay, and what were those discussions about?
[00:45:18] Speaker 2: Objection, you're relevant. What role did you match with that?
[00:45:22] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: When we were in school, his absence was tied to school and studying, and when we came to San Diego, his absence was tied to the firm that he was in and getting ahead in that firm. There seemed to be a lot of mandatory appearances at luncheons and social things and athletic things that seemed to be mandatory if you wanted to make it in that firm. And Dan definitely wanted to make it.
[00:45:52] Speaker 3: And when you first moved to the coral reef home, were you working then?
[00:45:56] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I had the Black Angus job still.
[00:45:59] Speaker 3: And was that still a night job?
[00:46:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. At one point there, before Danny was born, I had to get disability because of my varicose vein problem. You weren't allowed to sit down on the job. You were not allowed. Yeah, I had to stand up front. There was no way you could sit down. And I had horrible...
[00:46:18] Speaker 4: Objection, you're out of your response.
[00:46:20] Speaker 3: Sustain. Were you working at other jobs during these two- or three-year periods, you would guess?
[00:46:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I always had several jobs. And then when Danny was about 18 months old, I started my biggest production of having children come to my home where I would find my own children and other people's children. We had a large backyard at the time for that purpose.
[00:46:47] Speaker 3: And was there a reason that you discussed with Mr. Broderick the fact that he was away from the home a lot? I mean, how you felt about that? Any discussions at all?
[00:47:01] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Oh, it was constant discussions. I felt that he was really neglecting myself and the children. I felt I spoiled him in the early years by not expecting him to do anything with us because of the schooling. And then after he got a regular job, I kind of expected him to get involved and be home on weekends and be home at night and to have a little more time for us. And he didn't have very much time for us.
[00:47:23] Speaker 3: Now, during the time that, did you talk about counseling, marriage, or anything else, any other kind of counseling during that time?
[00:47:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We participated in a marriage encounter through the Catholic Church, which is a weekend you go away and discuss the future of your marriage.
[00:47:55] Speaker 3: Did you have any discussions about what you might do or if things didn't work out?
[00:48:04] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I felt pretty isolated out in California. I really liked it, but Dan was never home. And I didn't have any relatives here at all, and neither did he. And I was raised in a very big, very close family. My mother's own... Objection.
[00:48:21] Speaker 2: Stay in.
[00:48:26] Speaker 3: Was there a reason you wanted to go to marriage counseling?
[00:48:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: It was an opportunity that was presented to us, and yeah, I thought it was a great idea.
[00:48:36] Speaker 3: Okay. And what were the reasons? I mean, what...
[00:48:38] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: To talk about our marriage and where we felt we were going and how we were doing, and I thought it was a wonderful opportunity. Someone in the church took care of our children for the weekend to let us go to that.
[00:48:51] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:48:56] Speaker 3: Was there any discussions about leaving Great Carey at that time?
[00:49:04] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We had discussions about moving back east because I was lonesome.
[00:49:08] Speaker 2: Objection, but I was not responsive.
[00:49:10] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Well, overall, that's what she asked for. I should go ahead?
[00:49:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead.
[00:49:15] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I was discussing moving back east because I really missed family.
[00:49:20] Speaker 4: And we could have gone to either Pittsburgh or New York, and we looked at property in Pittsburgh. So I'm not making any of this up. And Dan said that we couldn't leave because he had five years in town. Actually, it wasn't five at that point. It was almost five. But he said, no, we can't leave. We can't go anywhere else. You just... We've got to stay here and give me more time, and I'll straighten everything out.
[00:49:45] Speaker 3: Did you discuss any plans for Dan leaving Great Carey at that time?
[00:49:52] Speaker ?: Yes.
[00:49:53] Speaker 3: And what were those discussions?
[00:49:56] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I wanted him to leave Great Carey because of all the drinking and all the craziness that was going on. I hated it. And he wanted to leave Great Carey because he had his medical background, and he was supposed to be doing medical malpractice. Great Carey had no medical malpractice clients or cases at all, and they would not allow him to start a personal injury business within the firm. So he was not doing professionally what he wanted to do either. So he wanted to leave for professional reasons, and I wanted him to leave for family reasons.
[00:50:29] Speaker 3: Now, you've heard testimony about the only marrying Dan because he's a money-making machine and never loving him. You've heard that, haven't you?
[00:50:43] Speaker 4: In here, yeah. Okay.
[00:50:48] Speaker 3: Is that true?
[00:50:51] Speaker 4: I've never heard it before. I married Dan for a million other reasons. He was not a money-making machine when I married him.
[00:51:00] Speaker 3: Now, during the time that you were, did you actually, at some point in time, attend a marriage encounter?
[00:51:16] Speaker 5: Yes, we did. It was a weekend, November 76th.
[00:51:20] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:51:21] Speaker 3: And during the time that you were at the marriage encounter, did you talk about what you wanted out of a marriage?
[00:51:29] Speaker 4: Definitely. That's what it was for.
[00:51:31] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:51:32] Speaker 3: And what did you tell him you wanted out of a marriage?
[00:51:41] Speaker 4: I wanted him to spend more time with us. I wanted him to spend more time with us. That's all I wanted.
[00:51:45] Speaker 3: Did you ever tell him what kind of physical things that you wanted?
[00:51:52] Speaker 4: I wanted a sofa for the family room because we had this black leather chair that he would sit in all the time. I just didn't feel we ever got really close to one another. It was like, yeah, I wanted a sofa for the family room. That was my big desire in 1976.
[00:52:07] Speaker 3: And did you have an opportunity at that point in time to write in your marriage encounter about the things that you desired in life and how you felt about Dan and why you married him?
[00:52:23] Speaker 5: Exactly. That's the purpose of the weekend. They help you along. They give you guidelines.
[00:52:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: They give you questions. You each have a notebook. And you answer those questions and then you change notebooks so he knows what you said about the answer and you know what he said about the answer. And that way they help you to express yourself better. But if you just stayed home, you probably wouldn't communicate on that level. So, yes, we have the books.
[00:52:46] Speaker 3: And did Dan talk to you about what he wanted out of a marriage?
[00:52:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:52:53] Speaker 3: Or what he wanted for you? What did he tell you he wanted?
[00:52:59] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: He apologized for not spending time with us and said what he needed in life were to reach these financial goals that he had set for himself way, way back. And only when he reached those financial goals would he then have time to be a nice person to me and the kids and to give us time. But I had to give him more time and stick with him until he reached those financial goals. And when he got there, then it was all going to be rosy and it was all going to pay off and it was all going to be wonderful. But I had to be patient because he had to do that first.
[00:53:34] Speaker 3: And did you agree at that point in time to stick it out with him and stay in California based on the things that he promised to you?
[00:53:44] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[00:53:50] Speaker 3: Did, um, showing you, um, what is marked for identification, Your Honor, we have something that is marked X that says, Marriage Encounter, Roderick, Room Number 10, and another book of Betty Roderick, Marriage Encounter, Room Number 10.
[00:54:14] Speaker 2: So, Mark, one's X and one's Y? Yes, Your Honor, the one marked Betty Roderick is Y. Thank you.
[00:54:21] Speaker 3: Uh, I just like you, I'm not going to ask you specifically about them, but can you just look through, uh, The first book that you're looking through is X?
[00:54:34] Speaker 5: Yes.
[00:54:34] Speaker 3: Okay. And is that, uh, Dan Broderick's, uh, Marriage Encounter?
[00:54:40] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, this is his handwriting.
[00:54:42] Speaker 3: And, um, okay. And if you could look at what has been marked as Dependents Y for identification.
[00:54:57] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, this is all my handwriting from that week.
[00:55:00] Speaker 3: So, that would have been your Marriage Encounter vote. Correct. The, um, Now, after, um, Did he make, uh, at that time any, uh, promises, inducements as to how he would be with the family as the time he would spend with the family at home?
[00:55:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, he was supposed to, uh, he was supposed to, in the book, you know, we're supposed to, you're supposed to make improvements, but he just further apologized and said, you know, he'd really like to get together, you're supposed to get together ten minutes a day after a marriage encounter to enhance the intimacy in your marriage. He said, you know, I'd really like to do it, but I'm just too busy. I have depositions, and I'm busy, busy, busy, busy, and I just, you know, I just don't have time for this.
[00:56:08] Speaker 3: Did he talk to you at all about, um, about at least goals as far as what he was going to do in the legal community, and why, and what kinds of times he had to spend with them?
[00:56:18] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, as I said earlier, it wasn't just that he worked very, very hard and he was very, very smart. He did. He worked very long hours and very smart, but on top of that, we had all of these committees and courses that he taught and boards of directors that he was on, all related directly to the bar association and the legal community in this town that enhanced his status in the legal community. So he had to teach courses and go to meetings at night, and, and I was told that that was necessary to get where he was going, and that I just had to be patient.
[00:56:54] Speaker 3: Right. And, uh, when he explained that with you, did you, um, did you agree to, what was your feeling about that? What did you, did you agree, disagree?
[00:57:07] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: He was right. I knew he was right. I, I accepted that he was right at the time, and I also accepted that I'd have to be more patient. But he promised me that if I was more patient, that things were going to change. Just wait and see, you know, when, when he got there, it was all, then everything was going to be fine. He was going to turn into a real nice person that had time for us.
[00:57:26] Speaker 3: And now, how old were you at, uh, at that time?
[00:57:29] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In 76. Um, 29? Is that good?
[00:57:34] Speaker 3: Which year, you were born in 1947, is that right? Right. Um, now, did, uh, what year was, um, when was Danny born?
[00:57:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We already did. Danny was born in February of 76.
[00:57:51] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um.
[00:57:54] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Which was before the marriage encounter.
[00:57:57] Speaker 3: Were you, uh, were you working? Did you make any, uh, have any discussions or make any decisions about, uh, Dan actually leaving Great Carrier?
[00:58:16] Speaker 5: Objection asked.
[00:58:17] Speaker 3: Overruled your match with that.
[00:58:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I don't think we made the, the date decision. We discussed the track at Great Carrier. The track that you're on to make partner is a five-year track. And you're going to be offered a partnership in five years if they liked you. They obviously liked him. They were going to offer him a partnership. He felt he had to get out before he accepted a partnership. Because once you accept the partnership, it's very hard to get out. You have to then break up a partnership. This way, he'd just be leaving. So, five years from the day, practically, that he went there, he left. That would be in 78. June of 78.
[00:58:58] Speaker 3: The, at that point in time, had your religion been important to you?
[00:59:09] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I was raised in a, in a very nice Catholic family. And we're all pretty religious. And I kept it up with the children. I had them baptized. They did first communion and stuff. But those were basically things I did with the children. Dan didn't want to be involved.
[00:59:25] Speaker 3: Did you continue, did you try to get, were you able to get involved at least in keeping communications going in any kind of counseling or, or the continuation of the Catholic marriage encounter?
[00:59:39] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, Dan didn't want to do that. They had meetings later and you were supposed to have reunions with the group that you originally did that with, but we never participated.
[00:59:52] Speaker 3: When you talked about the, going into private practice, did you also have any discussions or agreements about the financial risks that were involved in going into private practice?
[01:00:05] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, at the time Dan decided to leave Great Carry and go into private practice, he was forfeiting the only paycheck we had, which was a regular paycheck from Great Carry. And at that time our home wasn't paid for, our cars weren't paid for, our furniture wasn't paid for, and these bills were going to keep coming and keep coming, whether he worked for Great Carry or not. We couldn't get the stuff back at this point, so he decided to leave Great Carry, but then we had to finance our entire lifestyle on loans again, until he got going. We also had to add the expense of starting a practice, his rent, his furniture, his letterheads, his secretaries. We had no savings at that time. So starting the practice and our living expenses were financed by loans once again, where we haven't ever even paid off the student loans yet.
[01:00:53] Speaker 3: Was there any discussions about your house?
[01:00:56] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I thought if we had to leave the house and go back to an apartment, it would be worth it. Just him, you know, I knew he would make it. If anyone in the world would make it, it would be Dan Broderick. He was extremely ambitious and aggressive and everything. I knew he'd do it. It was a great idea, but we might have lost the house in it. And I said, it was okay. We'll just start again.
[01:01:18] Speaker 3: And now during this period of time when he first started working, did you continue to work?
[01:01:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: When he left in 78, yes.
[01:01:31] Speaker 3: Now, did the... You indicated at some point in time you started a daycare operation at the home?
[01:01:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That was when Danny was about 10 months old.
[01:01:53] Speaker 3: And what...
[01:01:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: So I'd been doing it for a couple of years.
[01:01:55] Speaker 3: And what kind of operation was that?
[01:01:58] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I'm a nursery school teacher by trade. That's what I am. That's what my degree is, early childhood education. And so if I wanted to go to work and use my profession, I would have had to leave my own little children with somebody and go teach other people's children. So that didn't make any sense to me. And we needed the money. So... And I love children. So I was very, very happy. And I brought kids into the house. We had a backyard. We had a swing set, a sandbox, and toys. And I ran a little nursery school operation at my house.
[01:02:26] Speaker 3: Did it have a name?
[01:02:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I just called it time out because most of the women didn't work. They just dropped the kids with me when they went to lunch and played tennis and did all the things La Jolla people do.
[01:02:39] Speaker 3: Now, when was Rhett born?
[01:02:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: In February of 79.
[01:02:52] Speaker 3: Now, were Rhett and Danny, were they difficult pregnancies?
[01:03:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: All of my pregnancies were technically, medically, very complicated. I had two uteruses. The kids never turned, ever. They were all breech births. They were all early. They were preemies. I mean, I was a very high-risk pregnancy. And because of the third baby dying and the placenta privia, and because of...
[01:03:24] Speaker 3: That's okay. Was there a time that... And besides those that you've gone over with, the five, has there been other pregnancies that you've gone through where the baby did not go to full term?
[01:03:42] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I had several miscarriages between Danny and Rhett.
[01:03:45] Speaker 3: Okay, so there was approximately seven or eight pregnancies total?
[01:03:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Nine.
[01:03:52] Speaker 3: Nine. And Rhett was born in what year?
[01:04:04] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: February 14, 1979.
[01:04:09] Speaker 3: Did you ever do anything in regards to the vascular problem? Did you ever have surgery on your legs?
[01:04:16] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I did, after Rhett was born.
[01:04:22] Speaker 3: Now, after Rhett was born, did you start getting involved in any other activities outside the home?
[01:04:33] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: After Rhett was born, I don't believe I ever took the children into the house again. I did do some of the hostessing jobs, but leaving four children with a babysitter was ridiculous. That wasn't going to work. So, by 79, 80, I think I just got involved in community things. I don't think I really...
[01:04:52] Speaker 3: Okay. What kind of community things were those?
[01:04:56] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Well, when I first moved to San Diego, I did basic San Diego community things. KPBS Auction, the San Diego Museum of Art, and Combo, which was the combined arts at that time. And then, as the children were in school, like Kim and Lee would have been in school when Danny and Rhett were young, I did room mother things and minded kids on the playground and did trips at school and mother's club and carnivals and big things and stuff like that. And that's kind of the stage we're at now. And Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts and all that kind of kiddie stuff.
[01:05:35] Speaker 3: Did you get involved in any of the children's sports?
[01:05:40] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: When Danny and Rhett were of age to be involved in t-ball and soccer and stuff, yes. When Kim and Lee were younger, they didn't do those things. They didn't want to do the sports. They did other things. They had music lessons and ballet lessons and tap dance. So when the boys, yes, sports with the boys.
[01:05:59] Speaker 3: And what kind of things would you do with them? I mean, would you just go to games or?
[01:06:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, I was a Boy Scout leader and I did the stuff with the Boy Scouts and I was the soccer coach. And I was really involved with them.
[01:06:12] Speaker 3: Did you do anything that was associated with the legal field as far as volunteer work at that time also?
[01:06:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I made a conscious decision at one point that I wouldn't do anything that wasn't directly involved with my children, my family, my husband. I wouldn't do any more of the community things and it wasn't until much later that I did other charity things. But at a core section of life, I only did kid things, school things and bar association things.
[01:06:47] Speaker 3: So what kind of bar association things were you doing?
[01:06:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: There was a bar association auxiliary for the wives and you do the Blackstone ball and you do book sales and you do lunches and a fair at Christmas. And I gave courthouse tours in this courthouse for five years to school children and it's kind of a booster club for the husbands and you have to be a wife of a judge or a lawyer to be in it.
[01:07:11] Speaker 3: Now, was Dan becoming more involved in, he was in private practice at this time?
[01:07:18] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, starting in 78.
[01:07:20] Speaker 3: And in some time did the family income start to increase sometime where there was a little bit more money in the family?
[01:07:32] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, in 78 we had no income from his practice at all and in 79 I still think we were negative on tax returns, as I believe we're, we, the nature of a personal injury business issue.
[01:07:44] Speaker 4: That's the same.
[01:07:46] Speaker 3: Okay. Did you have any understanding why there was going to be some years where, where there was not very much money coming in from his business?
[01:07:55] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, Dan no longer received a regular paycheck from anyone. He only got a percentage of cases after they had run the three, four, five year gamut of the whole legal system when they were totally settled, whether in a courtroom or on a phone. Then he got a piece, a percentage of the settlement, but there was not a regular paycheck by anyone. And so in the first early years of the practice, there was no income.
[01:08:21] Speaker 3: But that was something that you understood and were willing to. Absolutely.
[01:08:26] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: And we, we had the loans and yes.
[01:08:30] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:08:31] Speaker 3: Did, now did he get involved, was, was during this period of time, was Mr. Broderick getting involved in enhancing his status in the legal community by doing, instead of coming home at night, doing things in the evening and on weekends? Very much so, yes.
[01:08:50] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Very much so, yes. He could no longer rely on just being a member of the most prestigious firm in town. He had to make a name for himself as an individual.
[01:08:58] Speaker 3: And so what kinds of things was he doing?
[01:09:00] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: He was teaching courses on Saturday and joining things. I don't know the names of them with judges and stuff. And he was on the board of directors of the Bar Association for about five years. And there's all these other names of things he did. Okay. Ends of court. I don't know what that is. And mood courts and teaching people and videotaping things.
[01:09:23] Speaker 3: Okay. And those were things that kept him away from the home?
[01:09:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. And he established himself as an expert in the medical legal field. And he gave speeches and he wrote a column for dicta. And he went out in the world and marketed himself as an expert in the medical legal field. Okay.
[01:09:40] Speaker 3: And was this... I take it this was something that you understood that Dan told you he was going to have to do if you would stick it out? That's what I wanted to do. Right. It's fine.
[01:09:49] Speaker ?: Right.
[01:09:50] Speaker 3: Did Dan... Had those things been discussed that Dan was going to be doing those things?
[01:10:02] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:10:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:10:06] Speaker 3: Now as your children became older, did you get involved in other public service type work?
[01:10:12] Speaker 4: Do you actually have to answer that? No, I haven't answered that.
[01:10:16] Speaker 3: I think that's the time sustained. Okay. The...
[01:10:20] Speaker ?: What is the...
[01:10:20] Speaker 3: When is the first time that you can remember the year, if you can give it to us, where you felt that your family did not have any major financial problems, where there would actually be some spending, discretionary spending money?
[01:10:44] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I never had any idea of what was in bank accounts or how much we owed or anything. So this is just my impression. My impression was that in 1981, Dan was purchasing and buying stuff. And so we had some money, not a lot of money in '81. And that's the first year I felt we had any money at all.
[01:11:03] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, when we get to 1980, 1981, as your children are getting older, did you get involved in activities now that weren't just related to the bar association or the kids' school?
[01:11:20] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Right. That's when I really started doing real charity work with retarded citizens and abused children and other fundraising for charity work. The girls were in high school. They didn't need me as much to get involved at school. And they didn't even want me around. So I had time when the girls were in high school then. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:11:40] Speaker ?: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:11:48] Speaker 3: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:11:50] Speaker ?: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:12:14] Speaker 3: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:12:16] Speaker 2: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:12:21] Speaker ?: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved.
[01:12:56] Speaker 3: They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. They didn't want me to get involved. Okay. And was this about the time when you first moved into Coral Reef?
[01:13:12] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, it's later because we have curtains.
[01:13:15] Speaker 3: Okay.
[01:13:16] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We didn't have curtains for a couple of years.
[01:13:17] Speaker 3: Okay. So it was some time, it would have been after a couple of years of living there? Yes. Okay. And showing you what's been marked as AA for identification, do you recognize that?
[01:13:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:13:28] Speaker 3: And was that an organization you were involved with?
[01:13:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I forgot that one.
[01:13:31] Speaker 3: Okay. And what organization was that? Do you remember?
[01:13:34] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That was the Children's Home Society found homes for orphaned children.
[01:13:47] Speaker 3: The, um... Do you... Was there a time that, uh... Has there been a time that since your first married that, uh, you and, um, Ann had talked or dreamed about taking a vacation somewhere?
[01:14:24] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Well, when we were very first married, we wanted to go to Europe. And then because of me getting pregnant right away and losing my job and stuff, we never got there. So one of our mutual goals as a couple was to go to Europe as soon as we possibly could.
[01:14:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. When were, when was the first time that, uh, you and Dan were able to, uh, take the vacation that, that you had talked about?
[01:14:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I'm not sure if it was '81 or '82, but we traded homes with a family in Belgium to save money. We went to our home and we'd go to their home. And we had got your rail passes and Kim came with us. And so we got to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time.
[01:15:11] Speaker ?: And so we had to go to Europe for the first time.
[01:15:15] Speaker 3: And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time.
[01:15:18] Speaker ?: And so we had to go to Europe for the first time.
[01:15:19] Speaker 3: And so we had to go to Europe for the first time.
[01:15:20] Speaker ?: And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time. And so we had to go to Europe for the first time.
[01:15:32] Speaker 3: During this time, did there become any discussions about moving to a different house from Coral Reap?
[01:15:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:15:48] Speaker 3: And what were those discussions?
[01:15:50] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: As Dan was making more and more money, he wanted to move to a more substantial home.
[01:15:57] Speaker 3: Is that something that you wanted to do at the time?
[01:16:00] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. Meaning not necessarily larger. Coral Reap was very large. It was just in a tract on a tract street where our neighbors on either side were very similar and stuff. And he just wanted a home in a neighborhood with more custom homes or character houses.
[01:16:16] Speaker 3: And now, was there some time later that you were able to then take a trip with just you and Dan to Europe? Yes. And when was that?
[01:16:34] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That wasn't until 1984. Unless, do you mean the one with, we went with the Millikens?
[01:16:42] Speaker 3: Yes.
[01:16:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That was 1983. An attorney in town. Yes. No.
[01:16:48] Speaker 5: No. No.
[01:16:50] Speaker ?: Answer. And I would like to mark for identification, your honor, some more photographs. All right. One of them double B, the other double C.
[01:16:54] Speaker 3: And I would like to mark for identification, your honor, some more photographs. All right.
[01:17:01] Speaker 2: One of them double B, the other double C. One of them double C.
[01:17:34] Speaker ?: One of them double C. One of them double C.
[01:17:39] Speaker 3: Now, at this point in time, were you also, you and Dan, doing more things socially? That's okay.
[01:17:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: The progression from 1981 to 1983 was extremely rapid in so far as money. From 1981 to 1983, by 1983 we had a lot of money. Okay.
[01:18:06] Speaker 3: Now, showing you what has been marked BB for identification, do you recognize that photograph?
[01:18:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: We're on a bus going to Disneyland with the Boy Scout troop or the Indian Guides or something. It was one of Danny's groups.
[01:18:21] Speaker 3: Okay. Did you recognize this CC for identification?
[01:18:28] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That's us going to a Blackstone ball, but it's pretty early on.
[01:18:32] Speaker 3: Okay. Did, um, Dan is wearing a cop hat and a cape. Is that something that, that he wore a lot out?
[01:18:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. Dan was very, very proud of his silk top hat and cape and red silk lined cape.
[01:18:56] Speaker 3: And when you went to Europe the second time, uh, was, did you stay in different kind of places
[01:19:08] Speaker ?: than the first time you went? Yes.
[01:19:10] Speaker 3: As I said, the progression from '81 to '83 was absolutely phenomenal.
[01:19:23] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: By the time we went in 1983, we stayed in the most expensive hotels in the world. And Dan was calling himself the Count de Monet for the Count the Money.
[01:19:38] Speaker 3: Okay. And did, uh, was, were you bringing, uh, other people there, uh, to Europe and their way?
[01:19:46] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. As a gift to his friend, Jim Millican, and his wife, Jeannie, we brought them to Europe for three weeks, all expenses paid, as far as I know, by Dan.
[01:19:55] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:19:56] Speaker 2: Mr. Rowley, might this be a good time to take the noon recess? Yes, ma'am. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take our noon recess at this time. Please remember the admonition. I'll do my best to start promptly at 1:30. Have a nice lunch. Go ahead, Mr. Rowley.
[01:20:13] Speaker 3: Thank you. Now, um, Mrs. Broderick, the, uh, time that, uh, you indicated that Mr. Broderick was working for Greg Harry, and you were going to the marriage encounter, did you know Patty Monaghan?
[01:20:28] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:20:29] Speaker 3: Okay.
[01:20:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: She's the first person I met at that firm.
[01:20:32] Speaker 3: And, um, were the problems that, that were going on, was that discussed with her?
[01:20:38] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:20:39] Speaker 3: And did she talk to you about what she called a Greg Harry's sickness?
[01:20:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:20:44] Speaker 3: Did you, did you write about that in your marriage encounter?
[01:20:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, I did.
[01:20:48] Speaker 3: Okay. Did, um, now I believe we're at the point where, uh, um, you had taken a, uh, vacation with Judge Milliken and his wife? Correct. Did, um, after, uh, now in 19, excuse me if I may back out. In 1980 and 81, um, did you, uh, did you do anything about a real estate license?
[01:21:26] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. I went to a, a school that lasted two days. It was an accelerated real estate school. And it was a weekend school and then you took the exam and I passed it. Okay.
[01:21:35] Speaker 3: And what was, did you ever, have you ever worked as a real estate agent?
[01:21:39] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No.
[01:21:40] Speaker 3: Have you ever showed a house to anybody? I mean, showing a house to sell it.
[01:21:44] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Not in a, not in a professional capacity, no.
[01:21:47] Speaker 3: Okay. Have, uh, you ever completed a sale for a stranger?
[01:21:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No. I got that license to save us money on the house that Dan wanted to buy next.
[01:21:56] Speaker 3: There was, um, did you at some point in time, um, ever get, uh, involved with, um, interior decorating? No.
[01:22:08] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I got what's called a resale license. I never went to decorator school and I, I couldn't decorate anyone's house. I have a resale license. You go to an office building downtown and you apply for one and you get one.
[01:22:20] Speaker 3: So when they said-
[01:22:21] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: It has nothing to do with being a decorator.
[01:22:23] Speaker 3: So that was not a decorator's license. It's just a resale card. Objection. The, um, do you remember at Dan at some point in time buying a, uh, uh, uh, uh, a big fancy Dummeldorf or some kind of car? Yes.
[01:22:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I didn't know about it until after he bought it. It was in an airport. I believe in Denver. And that's the way they marketed these cars was just put one in an airport with ropes around it. And it has pipes and running boards in it. It's the, a copy of a 1930 Mercedes made out of fiberglass. The engine is a Ford Pinto.
[01:23:01] Speaker 3: Do you remember when he bought that?
[01:23:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: No, I don't. Okay.
[01:23:05] Speaker 3: The, um, there was, uh, some testimony about, um, um, uh, that Ken related about a time that Dan went out for pizza one night. Remember that testimony? Yes. Okay. Now, when, during a period of time, uh, in 1975 through 1978, uh, did Dan's activities involve, uh, his social activities? Was he having any problems with anything related to those? Yes.
[01:23:42] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Along with all the meetings and professional sort of things he was supposed to participate in, there was a lot of drinking afterward or during or something so that he quite often would come home inebriated from these things. Okay.
[01:23:56] Speaker 3: Okay. And was there ever a time where you had to pick him up at, uh, at a sheriff's station?
[01:24:01] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: At the county jail here. Yes.
[01:24:03] Speaker 3: Yes. And there was a, was there a time where Dan took, uh, uh, Kim, Danny and Lee out somewhere where you were upset when he got home?
[01:24:16] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes. It was, um, a Friday night. I'd just come home from the hospital with Rhett. I still had the metal clamps in my stomach from the C-section and I wasn't supposed to get out of bed because I had phlebitis. And he left me and the brand new baby and took the kids to have pizza on Friday night, which sounds pretty innocuous except that he was gone past midnight. It was a torrential rainfall and he was with Dave Monahan, his notorious Friday night drinking buddy. And I was absolutely furious that he kept, Danny was not even three years old at the time. And he had Danny with him in a rainstorm past midnight. And I knew that he was drinking because that's what else would he be doing? You know, it doesn't take that long to have pizza.
[01:24:57] Speaker 3: And when he came home, was it obvious to you that he was drinking?
[01:25:00] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Oh, sure. He really scared me more than anything because I was afraid that he'd kill my children.
[01:25:06] Speaker 3: Now, during the trip in 1983 in Europe, did you start notice any change in Dan's demeanor or his attitude?
[01:25:24] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, Dan was always a very self-driven person. And he worked very, very, very hard all the time. And so on vacations and things, he would play hard. And we'd have a lot of fun or try to have a lot of fun because I'd be away from the children and he'd be away from all the legal stuff that was so pressured. So we always tried to have a lot of fun. And on that trip, he was a little withdrawn, which I just attributed to now that he's making that much money, he's got bigger and bigger cases. And I thought he was under a lot of stress from work because of what I thought was wrong.
[01:25:54] Speaker 3: Now, after that, did you go anywhere that summer?
[01:25:57] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I took the children on a camping trip in the Suburban.
[01:26:02] Speaker 3: And is that the kind of car that you drove the Suburban?
[01:26:06] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: That year, I got the Suburban, yes.
[01:26:08] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you drive a Suburban from that time basically up until the time of your arrest?
[01:26:15] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes, from 1983, I got the Suburban.
[01:26:17] Speaker 3: Okay. And was that always the same Suburban or at some point in time did you change and get a new one?
[01:26:23] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: I changed and got a new one exactly the same as the old one.
[01:26:26] Speaker 3: Okay. And was there a purpose that you had a Suburban?
[01:26:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Because it served all the purposes. I used to take kids dirt biking. I could get five bikes in the back and surfboards and tennis rackets and we always had a lot of extra children with us for water skiing. And I just used every single inch of it and the license plates that load them up and we loaded it up a lot.
[01:26:51] Speaker 3: Okay. And at that time, do you remember what kind of car Dan was driving?
[01:26:57] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Dan had an MG first and then he had a Gazelle second and then in '83 he acquired a red Corvette.
[01:27:04] Speaker 3: Yeah. Now...
[01:27:06] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: And he's still at the previous two also. He had all three cars at once.
[01:27:10] Speaker 3: Did you have, now on the camping trip, how long did it last? I think about five weeks. Okay. Did Dan go with you?
[01:27:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: He flew in to meet us twice. He met us on a weekend in Keystone, Colorado, where we own part of a condo with his brother. And we rode horses and stuff, but it was just a weekend. And then he flew into Montana, Flathead Lake, Montana, where we were for a week at a dude ranch. And he was to stay the week up there.
[01:27:37] Speaker 3: Did the... Was there problems at that place?
[01:27:40] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: At the weekend in Keystone, he was really, really tired because it was just too short. He flew in. We tried to have fun. He was tired and he left, so it wasn't very much fun. And then when he got up to Montana, he was a real jerk. And I was like, "Gosh, you know, I've been on the road all this time with these kids. I was really looking forward to seeing you, you know, and having someone to talk to, and someone to have dinner with, and someone to sleep with and stuff." And he acted like a total jerk when he got there and I didn't know why. And I got mad at him. I said, "You know, if you're going to be here, be here. Otherwise, just go back home." And I was doing fine with the kids before. I'll just do it alone again.
[01:28:18] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, through the years, through the various years after the marriage encounter up until the time of Dan's death in 1989, did you refer often to that marriage encounter book?
[01:28:36] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Yes.
[01:28:38] Speaker 3: And was there a reason for that?
[01:28:48] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: Well, I call it kind of reality checks or sanity checks. I had certain tangible anchors in life that I could refer to to assure myself that I was not crazy, which is what Dan kept calling me crazy. That was something that I looked back to assure myself I did not imagine anything.
[01:29:12] Speaker 3: But I have a number of copies of the marriage encounter I'd like to have the jury read it at this time.
[01:29:18] Speaker 4: You're going to have an objection to someone who had an objection.
[01:29:22] Speaker 3: Read the entire marriage encounter book? Yeah, her entire marriage encounter book. Or I could have her read it.
[01:29:28] Speaker 2: It's the same as giving a tape transcript to the jury.
[01:29:30] Speaker 4: Your Honor, we can have an objection.
[01:29:32] Speaker 2: Well, let me see both the bench from that first. Go ahead.
[01:29:38] Speaker 3: the um after um you returned from the trip um had dan's demeanor changed yes drastically and
[01:30:08] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: how did it change i wasn't even home an hour and i knew something was wrong he didn't greet us at the door he wasn't happy to see us he was just acting very strange and that was about that was late at night when i came home with the children and we had to go to a wedding the very next day in laguna beach so we got all dressed up and drove to laguna beach it was during that ride up there
[01:30:29] Speaker 3: that i heard what was wrong and uh what did he tell you was wrong is that he was very very
[01:30:36] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: unhappy with everything he was unhappy with our house he was unhappy with our lifestyle he was unhappy with me he was unhappy with the children he was just not a happy person and that's what he
[01:30:47] Speaker 3: told me he wasn't happy did he did he say anything about you in particular describe you he thought our
[01:30:54] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: house was tacky he thought our friends were boring he thought i would he said i was old fat ugly boring and stupid and he had never said anything like that before okay at that time were you fat i didn't
[01:31:07] Speaker 3: think so okay and at that uh how did you feel about yourself at that time before i started saying those
[01:31:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: things i thought i was a competent person doing the right thing in life i was proud of my husband my house my family i was very high energy i've always been very high energy had lots of friends lots of activities i was a great cook i was a hostess i i just i was pretty satisfied with how i was doing in in life
[01:31:41] Speaker 3: the uh during that period of time were there any changes in uh dan's office in terms of staff
[01:31:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: in um we're we're in 1983 in july of 83 dan was a one-man band he had ever since 78 to 83 he had no employees of any description he had a secretary that was not an employee of his she was an independent woman that did all of his typing on a per hour basis she was not technically employed by his law corporation it was only dan broderick and in the summer of 83 that's the way it was was there a change for that in the fall of 83 in september of 83 he came home and he said that he had hired someone and i was very very happy about that i thought a release valve well he'll have more time for us and someone to help him because he had been so grouchy and under so much pressure and i thought it was from too much
[01:32:39] Speaker 3: of a workload and so he told me that he hired someone and did he tell you who he hired yes he told me he
[01:32:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: hired linda colquina who had formerly been the girl in the in the lobby of the building who answered the phones okay and um did you talk to him about linda yes as soon as i was delighted that he hired someone it was it seemed like the next moment he said who it was i said oh my gosh what did you hire her for she can't do anything to help you i mean she's not a paralegal she's not a lawyer she's not even a secretary she couldn't type i said what did you hire her for i mean you need you need a lot of help but
[01:33:18] Speaker 3: i didn't see that she was the person that was going to help okay and um did the did he continue with his
[01:33:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: attitude around the house how he felt about it oh yes he wanted changes major changes
[01:33:33] Speaker 3: and what do you mean he wanted major changes he wanted a new house he wanted a mansion
[01:33:38] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: and he he wanted us to live a much more glamorous lifestyle and he he was a real grouch around me and the kids all the time of course that was from my perspective because he had me walking on eggshells trying to please him and i was real tense and the children noticed it right away but they never knew why is because try in my trying to please dan broderick and make things perfect for him i became very tense and short-tempered with the children but they never knew why did you at any point in time
[01:34:08] Speaker 3: give him uh um at least some ultimatum in regards to did you ask him about whether there was a
[01:34:15] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: relationship between him and linda coquina i had first heard linda coquina's name raised at a party in
[01:34:20] Speaker 3: december okay first of all were you suspicious that there was a relationship between him and linda
[01:34:29] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: coquina absolutely i knew there was and why was that because i overheard dan in december the previous year say at a party wasn't she isn't she beautiful and i asked him later who he was talking about and he told me he was talking about linda coquina this person who answered the phones and then after that i was kind of attuned to what was going on and he was seen out to lunch and out to drinks and different places at downtown with linda coquina and then when he told me that he hired her it just absolutely
[01:34:58] Speaker 3: verified what i was suspicious of all along i was really mad and did you give him some ultimatum in
[01:35:05] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: october about about linda coquina yeah i said you know it's bad enough that you're having an affair with this person but now you're going to pay her to be in the same room with her with you for 12 14 hours a day while i'm home with the kids and i never see you and i was just really mad and i said get rid of that girl by october 1st i gave him a month because i was being nice stupidly and i said get rid of that
[01:35:28] Speaker 3: girl by october 1st or get out of my house and what was his response about him having a relationship
[01:35:35] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: with linda coquina that i was crazy there was nothing going on there had never been anything going on that i was delusional that i was imagining things and furthermore if there was anything going on that i didn't like i could get out of the house because that was his house okay um
[01:35:54] Speaker 3: did he continue to talk to you about uh about um problems he perceived that were being caused by you either the way you physically looked or how you were keeping home he was just a very unhappy person we
[01:36:09] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: we had talks about him being unhappy and i'd say to him you know i don't know what you're talking about happy we have four healthy kids we have a beautiful home you're doing really really well in your business we're healthy i mean what else is there in life i just don't understand why you're all of a sudden
[01:36:25] Speaker 3: so unhappy did you believe him when he told you uh at the time when you would talk to him about not
[01:36:30] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: having an affair with linda coquina yes i always believed everything he told me and before this point in our long-term marriage by this point i've never never doubted what he told me before if he told me he was at meetings he was at meetings if he told me he was out of town at depositions that's where he was but all of a sudden every time he started telling me that he was working late and he was going out of town and he was doing this and that i was suspicious that
[01:36:54] Speaker 3: he was with linda coquina and that he was lying yeah did how did that make you uh feel when he would tell you i mean how are you feeling about the fact that you had these suspicions
[01:37:07] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: but you wanted to believe them well it made it made me feel like a jerk you know like i was stupid or something but there really are no words to describe what you feel when you find out your husband's
[01:37:22] Speaker 3: having an affair okay um did you try to do something to about the things dan said that were wrong with
[01:37:29] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: you sure i tried to um i i wouldn't say i tried to look like linda coquina i didn't do that i just tried to not be old fat ugly boring and stupid so i couldn't do anything about old and i lost weight and i went down to a sickly thin and i i didn't think i was boring but i quit all my society things and tried to stay home and give him more attention and um i just tried to really cater to him i tried to become perfect for him so he'd have nothing to complain about at all of course he hadn't really complained
[01:38:02] Speaker 3: about anything before that either had you ever felt this way about yourself before this not at all did you start feeling different about yourself after dan told you these things yes yes did you do anything medically about making yourself look younger dan sent me to some client
[01:38:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: that he had to um get wrinkles off my face and i got braces on my teeth because i have a little tiny crooked tooth here i just i let my hair grow longer like it used to be in college it was real long hair and with the kids i let it get a little shorter so i let my hair grow longer and i just tried to look as much as i could like i used to look when i was 19. did the subject of more babies ever come up yes i had had my tubes tied with with the birth of rhett in 1979 because i had to do that if i wanted to get my leg operated on you're after you have the vascular surgery in your leg you're not really supposed to get pregnant ever again but i had my tubes tied and so i thought if it would make dan feel younger that he had young children or had babies that i would get that operation reversed and have more children because i was asking you know you know like what what does she have that we don't have together i mean why would you be interested in linda colquina i don't understand did you did you
[01:39:32] Speaker 3: see any doctors about your physical condition having children about getting the tube tied reversed yes
[01:39:39] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: dr villanueva is a specialist in fertility and did both you and dan go to see him yes okay the um
[01:39:51] Speaker 3: now during this time period of time that was going on were you still asking dan about uh linda
[01:39:58] Speaker 5: yes and what was he telling you objection asked and answered sustained
[01:40:13] Speaker 3: well did you um did you ever feel that you were imagining things because of what dan told you i mean were there times where you felt that you were crazy or imagining things there were times when i doubted
[01:40:35] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: i had um feelings and impressions of what i thought was true and he was telling me that that was not true and so i felt imbalanced because what i felt and saw and suspected and all the clues were pointing one way and he's telling me you know black is white and white is black and and i'm i'm feeling a little
[01:40:54] Speaker 3: off balance that i've never felt like that before did you do anything did you go anywhere at that time well first of all did you do anything to yourself physically at any period of time in 1983. well the
[01:41:08] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: october 1st deadline came and went and he wouldn't get rid of linda colquina and he was still denying that there was anything going on it's still telling me i was absolutely insane and crazy and how unhappy he was and how awful i was and stuff and and he was inadvertently becoming quite cruel you know he he didn't throw things and everything but he just wasn't coming home and he was sneaking out at night and he was being really weird and i wasn't liking it and i was very hurt by it and then it came kind of to go ahead on my birthday that um he didn't come home or anything and he was just being a shit and uh
[01:41:44] Speaker 4: i am i covered up like i always did and the kids and i had dinner and a party and i put the kids to bed and then i slept my rest did um did dan come home that evening i guess so real late i don't know to tell you the truth
[01:42:03] Speaker 3: okay well at some point in time did dan come home the next morning is when i saw dan and um
[01:42:11] Speaker 4: what did he do at that time he was trying to wake me up yeah he was waking me up did you talk about
[01:42:18] Speaker 5: how you were feeling i wasn't in our bedroom i was in a different bedroom of the house so if he came home and went in our bedroom that i don't know if he knew what happened to me until the
[01:42:27] Speaker 3: next morning when he came looking for me when he found you and you were what did you talk about
[01:42:33] Speaker 4: that he was just making me feel bad he was just being a creep and he said you know that he was sorry there was nothing going on with linda and i should go get some help that i'm having a mental breakdown and and that i i need to help because i'm imagining all these things did you go to a counselor i went the next day yes for the first time in my life i i was all shaking and everything and i i really needed help and i went the next day did dan go with you no
[01:43:15] Speaker 3: the did you at some point in time um try to did you at some point in time go down to dan's office at
[01:43:26] Speaker 5: about this time after i got over the hump with the sweat wrist and the counselor and everything
[01:43:33] Speaker 3: things seemed to level out for a little bit okay if you could uh did you go to dan's office sometime that
[01:43:42] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: fall yes and why did you go to dan's office because november 22nd is his birthday okay and was there
[01:43:48] Speaker 4: a purpose other than his birthday that you were going down there yes i confided my my what i perceived as my problem in life in my friend vicky curry and her suggestion was that i start becoming a presence
[01:44:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: those were her words at dan's office because prior to this point in our lives he was so busy he never took lunches he never did anything and i had the kids and i never interfered in his office and i didn't call every day i just i just did not interfere he was very busy and he told me that so she told me to get dressed up and go down there and uh just say oh hi everybody it's me betty i'm alive and and i'm around and just kind of show my face to people so on his birthday i did that i got all dressed up vicky minded my kids and i got all dressed up and i brought champagne and a present for dan to the office okay what did you find when you got there i found that his office was pretty well trashed by a party there were balloons and streamers and a chocolate cake and cards and wrapping and dan is real meticulous it was really unusual that his office would look like that he never allows anything like that and then i kind of waited for him and i went out in the lobby and i asked the girl who was at the party because it looked like a big party to me and she said nobody just them meaning dan and linda and then while i was waiting for him i looked in the um the secretary cubicle in the middle of the building and i found the refrigerator and the wine and my wedding crystal in there and i thought that was kind of odd that he had a bar now at work and then i went in the office that said linda colquina in brass letters on the door now dan's office is in the most expensive building in town with the corner view and her office was next to his with the view and she had a name in brass letters and it was this gorgeous view office with all this pretty stuff and dan's picture was on the wall and it was a picture taken in 1967 before we were even married i was like god what's his picture doing on the wall in here that's really tacky and i just i just waited around for them to come back did you how did you feel at that time i felt that my suspicions were true and that they were not at
[01:45:58] Speaker 3: lunch this was too late for them to be at lunch were you happy were you crying i mean what was your
[01:46:03] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: demeanor shaking and totally upset and i called vicky i sat at dan's desk and i used his office phone and i called vicky and i said it was that it was even worse than i thought because he wasn't there and
[01:46:17] Speaker 3: everything did you describe the uh what you saw out of vicky i think so okay and did you when you did when you left dan's office did you leave dan's office without him returning yes i waited they
[01:46:32] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: never came back and where did you go i didn't know when i spoke to vicky on the phone i was so upset she said well betty what are you going to do and i said heck i don't know what do you do i don't know what
[01:46:43] Speaker 4: do you do so i sat there for a while and thought what should i do and i just went home and uh decided i knew what i would do i'd throw him out so i went up to his bedroom and took all his clothes and threw
[01:46:56] Speaker 3: them out in the backyard okay and after you threw the clothes in the backyard uh what did did you do
[01:47:03] Speaker 5: something with him i didn't throw his favorite clothes in the backyard because he'd really kill me
[01:47:10] Speaker 3: did you do something with the clothes that were in the backyard yes i put the lawnmower gasoline on them and i burnt them did you burn all of his clothes not his favorite ones okay what was he like when he came home did he come home eventually what was he like he was coming
[01:47:33] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: home he had no idea of what had happened he had no idea i was at the office because he never went back and our previous plan before i went to the office was he wanted a roast beef and a chocolate cake and he was coming home to a family birthday party with rose he thought roast beef and chocolate cake which was ready but he didn't get it okay what was he like though i mean drunk okay and happy very happy was there an argument or a fight i met the front of the house was locked he came around the back of the house and i met him at the door and i tried to be strong and and say you know you're not coming in
[01:48:09] Speaker 4: this house that's it you know i was down at the office i know what's going on you're not coming in this house and i gave him this checkbook because in one of our fights about linda colquine he said i don't care about you and i don't care about this house anyway if i leave all i need is my corvette and my checkbook anyway you know like he didn't care about the kids or anything so he had his corvette and i handed him his checkbook and said you are out of here and what did he do he said oh there's nothing going on i we went to lunch on my birthday and then i went to a deposition and she must have
[01:48:43] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: gone shopping or something that you're just imagining things there's absolutely nothing going on did you
[01:48:49] Speaker 4: believe him yeah how did you feel at that time and he wasn't mad about the clothes how did you feel at
[01:48:57] Speaker 5: the time i felt like like i probably made a mistake and then maybe he did go to lunch and go out to a
[01:49:05] Speaker 3: deposition did you did you at that point in time did you do anything in regards to the clothes you had
[01:49:13] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: burned we cleaned them up and bought them all new ones
[01:49:21] Speaker 3: now um in 1983 the end of 83 and the end of 84 uh was there things that you were planning as a family at that point in time well are we in the fall we're in the fall of we're in the fall of 83 and winter of 84 were you were you doing anything in regards to houses where you were going to be living anything such as that
[01:49:52] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: well if it was november 83 we would have been having our annual christmas party coming up and dan canceled that he didn't want he didn't want to do any more entertaining in coral reef he said he was
[01:50:01] Speaker 3: he's doing anything was there any changes in europe and was dan starting any changes in what you were doing as a family in 19 end of 1983 beginning of 1984
[01:50:17] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: well he curtailed our entertaining totally and we were looking for houses okay and
[01:50:29] Speaker 3: how about in the spring uh of 83 or 84 the um was dan happy unhappy
[01:50:41] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: after we had the november kind of blow up you know the october deadline passed november was a blow up then we had kind of this unspoken truce where he told me you know don't mention linda again there's nothing to worry about there's nothing going on yes she works for me yes we go out to lunch and yes we go to these meetings and stuff after but it's all business there's nothing going on so i more or less dropped it because he told me to for a while and he was coming home every night he didn't stay out overnight or anything and we were looking for new houses like he wanted to do and we i thought he was getting over it or that it never happened or something okay and he wasn't saying we
[01:51:24] Speaker 3: were getting a divorce and in 1984 um did was did was your house at coral reef put up for sale
[01:51:34] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: so that you could move to a bigger house well i kept finding big houses that he wanted me to find and then he wouldn't like them so i said
[01:51:42] Speaker 3: okay did you find that was your house up for sale not really okay was there any time
[01:51:53] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: okay were you looking for homes at that i was looking for homes full time a lot of real estate agents knew that i was looking for homes and because they knew i was looking to move they assumed that the house that i was in would be for sale when i found another home so a real estate
[01:52:08] Speaker 3: woman called me and said did anything happen in regards to somebody making offers on your home in 1984
[01:52:23] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: she brought one client one day that wanted our home really badly and we said we'd ask 325 for it and they
[01:52:31] Speaker 3: offered us 325 that day did uh did you sell the home no dan wouldn't agree to it okay and uh sometime in 1984 uh did there come a time where you moved out of the family home yes when we sold the house for 325
[01:52:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: we were selling it as a damaged house with a cracked slab with full disclosure to those people who were buying it and so dan thought it was he didn't want to sell it like that he wanted us to repair this the cracked slab and fix it all up and sell it as a undamaged house so that he said somebody would would sue us if we sold it with a crack so we ended up moving out this is all an insurance deal we moved out of coral reef insurance took over they ended up demolishing coral reef and doing grouting with machines and they messed up the whole house and they picked the insurance people paid for us to live in a rental for a nine nine months out of the year while they destroyed and rebuilt coral reef to fix that
[01:53:33] Speaker 3: cracked slab okay and so in 1984 where did you in september 1984 where did you move to la jolla shores on avenida de las ondas and did you arrange to for the lease to cover a certain period of time
[01:53:47] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: it was a school year lease versus a year-long lease because the people who owned the house only came to la jolla in the summer and so it was available for the school year okay and in
[01:53:59] Speaker 3: september to jim and did you move into the house in september of 1984 yes we did and did you all move into the home yes we did okay and that rent was paid by the insurance company yes okay now sometime in 1985 did dan move out of the rental house february of 85 yes okay remember the date of february 28th 1985 yes okay and did he tell you why he was moving out you know he just came home from work
[01:54:42] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: and i was laying on the bed watching um the news it was kind of 6 30 or something and uh he just said i'm leaving and i said oh where are you going i didn't realize it was i'm leaving okay did eventually
[01:54:57] Speaker 3: he tell you that he is leaving permanently or just moving out of the house for some period he said he
[01:55:02] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: was then i caught on that he was leaving and he started taking his sweaters out of the armoire and
[01:55:07] Speaker 3: and packing the red corvette with his clothes okay um did uh at that time did he move out right then
[01:55:19] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: well he packed the red corvette and then he came back in the house and he said do you want me to leave now or in the morning and i said oh no i'm married to a lawyer long enough to know not to answer that question you leave whenever you want to leave did and so he stayed stayed the night did he leave that
[01:55:35] Speaker 3: morning yes he left the next morning did um did you know where he moved to at that time no when was the next time um you eventually became aware to where he moved did you not i thought he
[01:55:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: moved to a hotel or an apartment or something because coral reef was such a mess from all this construction
[01:55:54] Speaker 3: it really wasn't inhabitable did you sometime though later learn that he had moved the coral reef yes okay and uh when was the next time that you saw dan after he moved out i saw him on saint patrick's day of that year 1984. did sorry 85. when did he come to the house was it daytime nighttime if you can
[01:56:18] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: remember daytime and nighttime he came in the daytime with his brothers that were in town for the holiday and i remember them being there in the daytime and then he came back at night okay now is that the first
[01:56:29] Speaker 3: time anyone the first time anyone in the family had seen him since march 28th february 28th february 28th yeah he he hadn't come back at all and do you remember did he come there just to say hi or did he stay
[01:56:46] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: there for a while when he came in the daytime i think he came to get a car or something i don't really remember why they came they were in the driveway and i just tried to be polite and say hi to his brothers and kind of walked by and stuff when he came back at night he was very very drunk and he
[01:57:00] Speaker 3: stayed there with me when was the next time that you saw dan after that after that was after our wedding
[01:57:08] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: anniversary which is april 12th which was probably more like april 15th is when i saw him
[01:57:13] Speaker 3: um i told him i needed to talk to him and did you uh did you discuss the um when you saw him there did
[01:57:25] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: you discuss some things with him yes we left the house and we went down to a restaurant on the beach right near my house and uh i wanted to have a business meeting with him i wanted to ask him what his intentions were what's going on here i mean where am i going to live how much money are you going to give me for rent and food and are you going to pay for the car and are you going to pay the charge accounts and my checking account was overdrawn when he walked out and i just i tried to have a business meeting with him and say you know okay dan you need your space and you're unhappy and all this but you know what's happening here what's the plan for tell me what's happening here and he wouldn't had dan said something about needing a space oh absolutely he was unhappy he needed needed his space did he say
[01:58:06] Speaker 3: that that this was he was moving out to get divorced no he never mentioned the word divorce he never even mentioned separation okay the and did you talk to him about your did he say anything about your marriage
[01:58:27] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: or what was going to happen no when i asked him about linda as i did again on april 15th i asked him you know what did he do for our anniversary and he said he went out with someone else kept denying that that he was even dating linda he never even admitted he went on a date with linda
[01:58:46] Speaker 3: but did he talk to you at all about the marriage when you were asking what was going on did he tell
[01:58:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: you that this is it or no he didn't know we were not getting a divorce and there was nothing going on with linda he was just taking a vacation he needed his space and it was it was just a couple of months after his 40th birthday and i figured he was taking a vacation did you believe him yeah the um how did you feel it at that time well i was pretty scared about the uncertainty of being left with the children in a rented house in a leased car the suburban was a lease we didn't buy it and i just i felt extremely scared and uncertain but i had to cover it up for the sake of the kids i had to pretend like nothing's wrong everything's fine everything's going to be fine the kids didn't even know about linda or anything like that and so i covered it up pretty good and i took them to warner springs ranch for our easter vacation like we did every year and i managed pretty good up there and they rode their horses and they swam and they did all their fun stuff when we got back from warner's is when the rat problem that we had anyway was just it was we'd been gone for a week and while we were gone there were more rats in that house and there was oxygen was there something going on around there that was causing a rat problem right behind this house on the hill they were building new houses and they disturbed all the vegetation and not only rats came down but when it rained mud came into the houses and it was because of the construction right adjacent to this property it wasn't that every house in la jolla has rats running all over it this was a very special situation did
[02:00:34] Speaker 3: had you from the time that you were born up until this time uh up until let's say 1984 december of 1984
[02:00:44] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: had you ever lived uh by yourself no i lived with my parents until the night literally the night before i married dan and i've never paid rent or utilities or phone bills or no i've never lived on my own i never
[02:00:57] Speaker 3: even went away to college and lived in a dormitory i stayed home and up until february of 1984 then you would either lived at home with your parents or you would live with dan right were you um who was when after dan left and you were living in the rental did you have any idea whether you had money or not
[02:01:18] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: in any of your accounts oh i in my account i didn't have any money i knew that but i don't know i didn't know about any other accounts i didn't know about any investments i had no idea of our income
[02:01:31] Speaker 3: i never knew any of that stuff okay and did you know whether uh anything about how were you living
[02:01:37] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: during that period of time dan was just the insurance paid the rent on that house is on the rental house until june i knew that was okay and but as far as anything else i didn't know i mean dan was just i
[02:01:50] Speaker 3: guess paying them were you using credit cards to live yes now you indicated that there were rats in the house how how was that affecting you
[02:02:14] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: this was no ordinary little rat problem they ate back out of the refrigerator and were in the refrigerator they ate through the ceiling they ate through a sofa they shredded the clothes in the closets i mean these were all over the floors on the beds in the closets everywhere it was absolutely terrifying and it was in daylight when it got dark it got worse but in daylight they were out there and i called dan one afternoon around 3 30 it would have just been starting to get dark
[02:02:45] Speaker 3: at some point in time did you call dan about the problems
[02:02:49] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: yes we i'd called exterminators the rats had been a little problem before we left for warners and exterminators were already involved and they were patching up things and they were setting traps and
[02:03:03] Speaker 3: did you first did you talk to dan about the rats dan knew about the rats when he left there were rats in
[02:03:11] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: the house but when this problem got really bad i called him to dan you've got to get over here and help it's not even dark and every trap's got a rat in it i mean they've already all sprung all over the
[02:03:21] Speaker 3: place and he said congratulations and hung up the phone yeah now were the how are the kids doing at that time
[02:03:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: i was trying to protect them but through some of this rat business they ended up protecting me there was a rat half dead and half alive in the laundry room and i wouldn't do laundry with that rat flopping around the floor so lily got a a shovel and threw it in a bucket of water and she drowned it
[02:03:46] Speaker 3: so i could do the laundry well but how were they doing in general i mean
[02:03:51] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: i was trying to protect them which was probably my mistake because
[02:03:58] Speaker 3: how were they doing in how were they doing in general in other words great happy great kids was there any anxiety because the father's gone what were they they were doing fine in school and i was
[02:04:09] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: pretending everything was cool and there was nothing wrong and daddy was just away for a little while and everything was everything was okay so basically their lives were all right but my behavior i was so tense and so short-tempered with them
[02:04:23] Speaker 3: at some point in time did their behavior change where they were arguing or fighting not
[02:04:31] Elizabeth Ann Broderick: probably their behavior didn't change what changed was my tolerance level i was a nervous wreck that rats are running all over the place and when they started fighting i didn't i went crazy i got really mad it was like i i didn't want this too i had all these other things to worry about and i hated it when they fought and i tell them to stop and they wouldn't stop and so i i got mad at kim for fighting i have furious at her and i took her over to dan's house to say okay dan you're going to help you're not going to help with the rats you're help with the kids because somebody's going to help help me here.