1 Progressive vs 20 Far-Right Conservatives (ft. Mehdi Hasan)

[0:00] My family lineage is settlers from the 1500s. [0:02] Colonialists. [0:03] Yeah, colonials. [0:04] You don't look very Native American to me. [0:06] I am Native American. [0:07] Whites are Native Americans. [0:08] What are you talking about? [0:09] You're not. [0:09] What are you talking about? [0:10] You're a little bit more than a far-right Republican. [0:13] Hey, what can I say? [0:14] I think you can say I'm a fascist. [0:16] Yeah, I am. [0:18] Listen to me. [0:19] I am an immigrant. [0:20] I'm speaking from personal experience. [0:21] Get the hell out. [0:21] I don't even like... [0:22] I should get the hell out? [0:24] Yes. [0:24] Why? [0:25] I don't want you here. [0:26] I'm Mehdi Hassan. [0:26] I'm a journalist. [0:27] I'm the editor of Zeteo. [0:29] And today I'm surrounded by 20 far-right conservatives. [0:33] My first claim is Donald Trump is pro-crime and pro-criminal. [0:51] Welcome. [0:52] Nice to meet you. [0:53] Nice to meet you. [0:54] I'm Mehdi. [0:55] I would just like to ask, what makes someone pro-crime versus, you know, anti-crime? [0:59] I think when you're soft on criminals, when you let criminals out of prison, [1:03] when you pardon people who've assaulted police officers, you're pro-criminal. [1:07] Donald Trump pardoned almost 1,600 people who were involved in January the 6th. [1:11] I think 600 of them had been charged with assaulting a police officer or obstructing a police officer. [1:16] 170 had pled guilty to assaulting a police officer. [1:19] 70 had pled guilty to assault with a deadly weapon. [1:22] J.D. Vance said, we're not going to pardon the violent criminals from January 6th. [1:26] Donald Trump pardoned all of them. [1:27] Are you okay with that? [1:28] I would say January 6th is a very special case. [1:31] I would say it's almost a climax point in history. [1:35] I would just phrase the question this way. [1:37] Right now in the L.A. protests, if they were to, just for example, they were to rush the capital of L.A., [1:45] I mean, they'd have to move over all the homeless people living in tents on the steps of the capital. [1:49] But if they were managed to get into the capital and they were just protesting, you know, peacefully, [1:54] let's say police officers were rushing them in. [1:56] They were letting them in and saying, hey, you guys can go in, like we have many testimonies that say. [2:00] What about the violent ones, though? [2:02] Okay, violent ones like what? [2:04] Like a man named David Dempsey, a judge, a Reagan-appointed judge sentenced to 20 years in prison. [2:09] He stomped on police officers' heads. [2:11] The judge said his conduct was exceptionally egregious. [2:14] He attacked police officers with flagpoles and pepper spray. [2:17] Donald Trump pardoned him. [2:18] There's a man named Daniel Rodriguez. [2:19] He got 12 years in prison for taking a stun gun and tasing a police officer in the neck and giving him a heart attack. [2:25] The judge said he was a one-man army of hate. [2:27] Donald Trump pardoned him. [2:28] Does that not make Trump pro-criminal? [2:30] He's letting violent criminals out of prison. [2:32] I would say no, it doesn't make him pro-criminal. [2:34] You're okay with that? [2:35] I did not say that. [2:36] I said that one pardon against somebody. [2:38] It was 1,600 pardons. [2:39] 600 of those were people charged with- [2:42] One example that you just gave me. [2:43] I can give you more. [2:44] Okay, fine, fine. [2:45] Shane Jenkins. [2:45] And I'll say the exact same thing every single time. [2:47] Then your argument will fall apart because it's not just one example if I keep going. [2:50] Go for it then. [2:51] Okay, Shane Jenkins got seven years in prison for nine criminal offenses, [2:54] attacking police with a deadly weapon, destroying government property. [2:57] How do pardons that probably shouldn't have happened turn into pro-crime? [3:02] So you've agreed that they shouldn't have been pardoned? [3:03] Sure, but that wasn't your claim was January 6th. [3:05] Your claim was Trump is pro-crime. [3:07] Yeah, because he pardons criminals. [3:08] Okay, I would say that that's a fault. [3:10] Let's talk about non-Generative people. [3:12] Okay. [3:12] He's pardoned people like Paul Wolchek recently, [3:15] who took millions of dollars from his own employees, [3:17] was sentenced to tax crimes, had to pay back $4 million. [3:20] Trump pardoned him. [3:21] He bought himself a $2 million yacht. [3:22] Why is he pardoning criminals like that? [3:23] Uh, well, I don't know. [3:25] I don't think you should, I don't think really presidential pardons should be a thing at all, [3:28] but I don't think, I don't think that, that means something. [3:31] You've been voted out by the majority. [3:33] Please return to your seat. [3:34] Thanks. [3:40] How's it going? [3:40] Hey, how's it going? [3:41] Mehdi. [3:42] What is it? [3:42] Mehdi. [3:43] You're from Northern UK, I guess? [3:45] I'm from London, North London. [3:46] Okay, okay. [3:47] Fair enough. [3:48] What's your ethnic background, if you don't mind asking? [3:50] My parents are from India. [3:51] Okay, perfect. [3:52] Just getting premise here. [3:53] First of all, I want to say that. [3:54] The premise of Trump being pro-crime? [3:56] No, no, no. [3:56] I want to concern myself with why you care about what's happening in the U.S., first and foremost. [4:00] Secondly, I want to say this. [4:03] Should the U.S., should people who live in the U.S. not care about? [4:05] Let's not interrupt each other. [4:06] Because I have this thing, like people know, I have this thing. [4:09] I have to stay calm, okay? [4:11] Okay. [4:11] Here's the thing. [4:13] I am happy that he released J6. [4:16] In fact, so much so that I was prepared to protest if he didn't. [4:20] Okay. [4:20] So when you say, are you okay that he's pro-crime? [4:22] Sure. [4:23] Because you know what? [4:24] We're changing the definition of what crime is, first and foremost. [4:26] You don't think stomping on police officers' heads is a crime? [4:28] I don't think it's no longer a relevant conversation anymore. [4:31] Really? [4:31] No, it's not. [4:32] Because you know what? [4:33] Okay. [4:33] Have you seen the U.S. in the last four or five years? [4:35] Yes, I've lived there for a while. [4:36] Have you seen, okay, I myself have been involved in these protests. [4:40] I've seen egregious things, things that you couldn't even imagine. [4:43] So we have no rules then? [4:44] Being done to conservatives, it's not about that. [4:45] It's about tribal warfare. [4:47] That's where we're at in the U.S. [4:48] I don't know where you're at in the U.K. [4:49] You're from India, so I don't really. [4:51] I'm not from India. [4:51] Oh, sorry, your parents are from India, so. [4:53] I'm an American citizen. [4:54] You have your own states. [4:55] I'm an American, you know. [4:56] You're an American citizen? [4:56] Okay, fair enough. [4:57] I don't know how you got that, but fair enough. [4:59] Here's the thing. [4:59] Are you an American citizen? [5:00] Absolutely. [5:01] Okay. [5:01] But here's the thing. [5:02] I'm not sure how you got that, but okay. [5:03] Born here. [5:04] Okay. [5:04] Born here in my family lineage of settlers from the 1500s, so I have some stake in the claim [5:09] here, okay? [5:09] But you're a descendant of immigrants. [5:12] Settlers. [5:12] I didn't know. [5:13] Colonialists. [5:13] Yeah, colonials. [5:14] You don't look very Native American to me. [5:16] I am Native American. [5:17] Whites are Native Americans. [5:18] What are you talking about? [5:19] You're not. [5:20] What are you talking about? [5:21] Whites are Native Americans. [5:22] Really? [5:24] What was happening before the 1500s? [5:25] I think you're getting confused with it. [5:27] I don't mind going on a tangent, but what was happening before the 1500s? [5:30] Calm down. [5:30] I think you're getting confused. [5:31] What was happening before the 1500s? [5:32] There was indigenous people here that came here from Asia. [5:34] Do you know what indigenous means? [5:36] Listen, before America- [5:38] Indigenous people can't come from somewhere else. [5:40] Why do you ask a question if you're going to interrupt? [5:41] I'm not sure if you know what the meaning of indigenous means. [5:43] I do know what it means. [5:44] It doesn't sound like it. [5:45] It means they came here first, right? [5:46] They came here from Asia by way of land bridge. [5:48] I have an argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson or anybody else about that. [5:50] I don't care. [5:51] Is he an American? [5:51] I genuinely don't care. [5:52] Yes, he is. [5:53] Okay. [5:53] Just checking. [5:54] My point is, my point is, okay? [5:56] Nothing to do with crime. [5:57] So far, you've agreed with me that these people are criminals. [5:58] Because you're derailing, dude. [5:59] I'm like, I'm trying to stay on track. [6:01] You literally sat down and asked me where I'm from. [6:02] I think you derailed this conversation from the get-go. [6:04] I think you got offended by that. [6:05] I'm not offended. [6:06] I'm just wondering what it has to do with crime. [6:08] Because I'm always curious. [6:08] We're going to talk about immigration. [6:09] Don't worry. [6:10] Later on, you can come back. [6:11] I hope so. [6:11] Right now, you're doing a very bad job of making the case that he's not pro-crime and pro-criminal. [6:14] I just got a round of applause. [6:16] I could probably get another one, actually, if I asked for it. [6:19] Wow. [6:19] So I don't think I'm doing it bad. [6:20] Is this how you get rounds of applause? [6:22] You sit in a room with 20 people who agree with you. [6:23] Wow. [6:24] Amazing. [6:25] Amazing. [6:25] That must make you feel good. [6:26] Well, wait until this comes out. [6:26] You know what? [6:27] I'm actually glad you're getting this emotionally outraged right now. [6:30] This is great. [6:31] I love it. [6:32] Do I have to say anything at this point? [6:33] Or are you just going to keep going? [6:34] Please. [6:35] Make your claim. [6:36] My claim is that I don't care if it's pro-crime. [6:39] You want to go back to the topic of conversation? [6:40] That's fine. [6:40] We agree, then. [6:41] He's pro-crime and you don't care. [6:42] But I have a question for you, though. [6:43] Do you care on the opposite side of the spectrum? [6:45] Yes. [6:46] Do you care about law being administered to the opposite side of the spectrum? [6:49] I think anyone who assaults a police officer shouldn't be pardoned. [6:52] I think that Donald Trump shouldn't have pardoned nine Republican members of Congress [6:55] who were convicted of crimes. [6:56] And I don't think Joe Biden should commit. [6:58] I don't think Democrats should pardon Democrats. [7:00] Fair. [7:00] But I don't think you understand where we are in the U.S. then. [7:02] I think I do. [7:03] No, because you're arguing for a position of like a U.S. that doesn't exist anymore. [7:07] We're headed towards trial. [7:08] So nihilism. [7:09] No laws. [7:09] Nothing matters. [7:10] It's not about that. [7:10] Everyone's pro-crime. [7:11] It's not about that. [7:12] It's that conservatives. [7:13] Listen, conservatives for too long have been playing it safe. [7:15] They've been playing by the law. [7:16] They've been playing it by the book. [7:17] They've been playing by the law. [7:19] You missed the Bush presidency. [7:20] Did you live here during the Bush years? [7:22] Conservatives are so concerned. [7:23] Didn't play by the law, George W. Bush. [7:24] Nor did Ronald Reagan. [7:25] Let's be respectful to you. [7:26] Let me finish. [7:27] I'm not sure you've been that respectful, but okay. [7:29] I'm trying to bring it back. [7:30] So let's both bring it back. [7:31] Let's do it. [7:32] I'm conservative. [7:33] Okay? [7:33] Really? [7:34] Let me tell you this. [7:35] We do play it too safe. [7:36] We've been playing it by the book for too long. [7:38] At this point, gloves are off, right? [7:40] The left has made their point. [7:42] They're willing to do... [7:43] Are the police force in Washington, the left? [7:45] Yes! [7:46] Why are they assaulting? [7:46] Are you kidding me? [7:47] The left? [7:47] Are you insane? [7:48] Police officers. [7:49] Look... [7:49] Okay, look at LA right here. [7:51] You think those stand down... [7:52] Those stand down... [7:53] You think the LAPD are a bunch of liberal Marxists? [7:55] No, but I think they listen to liberal Marxists [7:58] who tell them what to do. [7:59] I think they listen to who signs their paychecks [8:02] at the end of the day who are liberal Marxists. [8:02] Can I just check? [8:03] Because you're doing lots of little diversions. [8:04] We both agree Donald Trump's pro-crime. [8:06] You're just fine with it. [8:07] No, I... [8:07] Is that the position? [8:07] That's what you've said so far for about five minutes. [8:10] I don't agree with your definition of crime. [8:11] What's your definition of crime? [8:13] It doesn't matter. [8:13] Stomping on a police officer's head is not a crime. [8:15] That's your definition of crime. [8:17] As the Native American. [8:19] I am Native American. [8:20] If you say so. [8:21] So, going back to the topic at hand, [8:23] we have different definitions of crime [8:24] because you're talking about... [8:26] There's a criminal code in this country. [8:28] It's not about what's convenient. [8:28] It's called the U.S. Criminal Code. [8:30] You know what? [8:30] Let's focus on what we agree on. [8:32] I'm sure you and I actually agree on a lot more than you realize. [8:34] Do we agree that people shouldn't stomp on police officers' heads? [8:36] Can we agree on that? [8:36] If you don't agree on that, [8:37] then I really think this conversation is kind of pointless. [8:39] No, because first of all, you're saying what? [8:41] That the police have the authority, [8:42] that they're given the authority? [8:43] I don't accept the authority that's been given by liberal Marxists. [8:46] For the conservative or pro-police. [8:49] Then you don't know what a real... [8:50] Hey, listen. [8:51] You're in a room with juggernauts right now, okay? [8:52] We redefined conservatives. [8:53] I'm telling you right now, [8:54] you are going to be blown open [8:56] if you think that my position is not right. [8:57] If we're going to struggle with the English language [8:59] for the next couple of hours, [9:00] then yeah, we'll struggle. [9:01] What you're up against right now, okay? [9:02] 100%. [9:02] Yeah. [9:04] Newsflash, the conservatives are liberal to me, okay? [9:07] Neocons, libertarians, all those mainstream people, [9:11] they might as well be leftist to me, okay? [9:13] That's how far to the right I am. [9:14] Do you understand my position? [9:15] I kind of guessed it when you sat down. [9:17] So when you say, you know, about obeying police, [9:20] why would I give the authority to police? [9:21] Do you know here, do you know you're in America? [9:23] Do you think Donald Trump should be pardoning [9:25] nine members of Congress who committed financial crimes? [9:28] Are you pro-financial crime? [9:31] Are you pro-financial crime? [9:32] Do you know who Thomas Timboe is? [9:33] Pause. [9:34] I think the people who clapped you have voted you out. [9:36] All right. [9:37] Head back to your seat. [9:37] You've been voted out by the majority. [9:40] Nice to meet you. [9:46] Hello, sir. [9:47] How are you? [9:47] Hey, so I'm going to be as respectful about this as possible, [9:50] but the truth is your claim is completely bad faith. [9:53] You do not care about being anti-crime. [9:55] You yourself are pro-crime. [9:56] Your side is pro-crime because you're a progressive. [9:58] How am I pro-crime? [9:59] So I'll give you an example, right? [10:00] So your side, not Donald Trump, [10:02] has passed a series of laws in California. [10:04] Let's go with California. [10:04] It's where we are right now. [10:05] It's where I'm from. [10:06] I don't know. [10:06] Are you from California? [10:07] Okay. [10:08] So in California, for example, [10:10] the state legislature, completely progressive, [10:12] just passed a law that limits sex offender registration [10:14] to 10 years. [10:15] It was life before. [10:16] That's pro-crime. [10:17] The legislature in California, which is progressives again, [10:20] has passed a law that says the voter-induced three-strike law [10:24] is no longer absolute. [10:25] If someone attempt murders someone, [10:27] stabs someone on three separate occasions, [10:29] a judge now does not have to give them life. [10:31] That's a progressive law. [10:32] That is pro-crime. [10:34] You support that, don't you? [10:35] I actually don't support sex offenders coming off a list. [10:37] I think they should be on for life. [10:38] Okay, so you disagree with progressives. [10:40] Hold on. [10:41] You and I both agree that sex offending is a bad thing, [10:43] especially child sex offending, right? [10:44] It seems like you and I agree on that. [10:46] I agree on that. [10:46] The legislature of California does. [10:47] So I'm not here to debate the legislature of California. [10:49] I'm here to debate Donald Trump being pro-crime. [10:51] But you're progressive. [10:51] And I'm saying that Donald Trump was friends with Ghislaine Maxwell. [10:55] When Ghislaine Maxwell, who's the worst child sex trafficker of our lifetime, [10:58] she's serving over 20 years. [10:59] Do you know Ghislaine Maxwell? [11:00] Yeah, she's actually not. [11:01] Jeffrey Epstein is the worst sex trafficker. [11:02] He's dead. [11:02] I'm talking about people who are alive right now. [11:03] It's interesting, though, you didn't use his name, right? [11:05] Wouldn't he be the one who did this? [11:06] Oh, great. [11:07] I'm glad you brought up Jeffrey Epstein. [11:08] Jeffrey Epstein, before he died, did an interview with Michael Wolff. [11:10] He's on tape. [11:10] I don't know if you've heard the tape. [11:11] He says, my closest friend was Donald Trump. [11:13] I was his closest friend. [11:14] Elon Musk, I'm not sure if you've heard of him, [11:16] he tweeted recently that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files. [11:18] And Ghislaine Maxwell, who was the right-hand woman of Jeffrey Epstein, [11:21] when she was on trial for child sex offending, [11:24] which you and I are opposed to, [11:26] Donald Trump stood up and said, [11:27] good luck to her. [11:28] I wish her well. [11:29] So, yeah, that makes him pro-crime and pro-criminal [11:31] if he's being soft on child sex traffickers. [11:33] Well, you just said they were his friends. [11:34] He's clearly saying something. [11:35] No, I'm saying he was friends. [11:35] He was friends with Epstein. [11:36] You haven't seen the videos? [11:37] They danced together, partied together. [11:39] Epstein said I was his closest friend. [11:40] It's a guy who knows he's not supported the pedophilia part. [11:42] The only people supporting pedophilia are the left. [11:43] Actually, that's not true. [11:43] Trump gave a speech about 20 years ago where he said, [11:45] Epstein's a great guy. [11:46] He loves young women. [11:47] A lot of them are very young. [11:48] Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, laugh, laugh. [11:50] So, yeah, I think he's pro-crime and pro-criminals. [11:51] So, you think he's pro-crime for having a friend who's a criminal? [11:53] Do you have any friends who are criminals? [11:54] Not that I know of. [11:55] Certainly not child sex offenders. [11:56] No, do you? [11:57] No, of course not. [11:57] Okay, so we're both in agreement again. [11:59] So, why are you defending Donald Trump? [12:00] If it came out tomorrow that one of your friends [12:02] was a child sex trafficker, [12:03] You know what I do? [12:03] You'd stop being friends with them. [12:04] Yes. [12:05] And I wouldn't say... [12:05] And then I'd go on TV and I would say, [12:07] Oh, look, Mr. Hassan was friends with this guy 10 years ago. [12:10] Therefore, he's pro-child sex trafficking. [12:11] What if Mr. Hassan said, [12:12] I wish them well when they're on trial? [12:14] Wouldn't you have a go at me for that? [12:14] You wish your friend well on trial? [12:16] Yeah, child sex trafficker. [12:17] Would you mean that? [12:18] I wouldn't wish someone well, [12:19] but that's your gotcha? [12:20] But Donald Trump did. [12:20] That's your gotcha? [12:21] It's a pretty big gotcha. [12:22] He wished a friend well. [12:23] Pretty big gotcha. [12:24] Okay. [12:24] He praised the woman for child sex trafficking. [12:26] What about the fact that Elon Musk says his name? [12:29] What's his policy? [12:30] Oh, you want to talk policies? [12:31] Yes. [12:31] So, when he left office in 2020, [12:32] he left behind the highest murder rate for over 100 years. [12:35] He left behind the highest murder rate? [12:36] Yes. [12:37] That is the most bad faith claim you could possibly make. [12:39] No, no, it's a fact. [12:42] You're just lying to people. [12:44] I'm lying? [12:45] Can I finish the sentence? [12:45] Donald Trump does not cause the murder rates. [12:47] Murder is a state-level crime. [12:48] Oh, that's hilarious. [12:49] Gavin Newsom is more responsible for the murder rate [12:51] than Donald Trump is. [12:52] That's hilarious. [12:53] So, Donald Trump's not responsible for the murder rate, [12:54] but other politicians who are Democrats are. [12:56] Yes, because it's a state-level law. [12:57] Everyone can see your partisanship. [12:58] No, I'll say Republicans are, too. [13:00] State governors who are soft on crime [13:01] are the ones that are responsible for murder rates. [13:03] Let me finish a sentence. [13:04] When Donald Trump left office in 2020, [13:06] between 2019 and 2020, [13:08] according to data from the CDC, [13:10] from the FBI, [13:10] from Pew Research, [13:12] the 30% increase in the murder rate [13:13] between 2019 and 2020, [13:15] it was the single biggest jump [13:16] in the murder rate since 1905. [13:19] So, he's pro-crime and pro-criminal. [13:22] Who's doing the murdering? [13:22] The murderers. [13:23] So, aren't they responsible for the murder rate? [13:25] But why did it go up on his watch? [13:26] What? [13:26] Why did it go up on his watch? [13:27] He's very bad at fighting crime for Republicans. [13:30] That's a real hard one to figure out, right? [13:30] We shut down the whole economy during COVID. [13:32] We told everyone they couldn't go out [13:33] unless it was to violently protest. [13:35] We told people that if a cop tries to arrest you, [13:37] that cop's probably going to get charged with murder. [13:39] No, I think the pandemic had a lot to do with it. [13:40] But the pandemic didn't finish in 2020. [13:42] What? [13:42] The pandemic didn't finish in 2020. [13:43] No, but you asked why the murder rate went up. [13:45] And yet, if we're going to play the one-about game, [13:46] you guys blamed Joe Biden for crime for years. [13:48] What, Joe Biden actively induces policies [13:50] that are pro-crime. [13:52] I'm asking you for a reason, [13:52] name the policy that's pro-crime. [13:54] I'll name one right now. [13:55] Please, I've asked you for like 10 minutes. [13:56] I'll name one right now. [13:57] No, you haven't actually. [13:58] You talked about California legislatures. [13:59] He pardoned violent criminals. [14:01] He then went on to commit other crimes. [14:03] You don't think releasing violent crimes [14:04] into the community? [14:04] A pardon is a one-time thing. [14:05] What's his policy he has pushed? [14:07] Name a law he has signed. [14:08] Hold on, a pardon is a one-time thing. [14:10] A policy is not one-time thing. [14:11] That's like Jimmy Carter pardoned the draft. [14:12] You guys may want to dodge January 6th, the pardons. [14:15] I'm not judging that. [14:15] Then deal with it. [14:16] Did you agree with him? [14:17] I'm going to write down. [14:17] Do you agree with him? [14:18] Jimmy Carter pardoned draft dodgers. [14:20] Does that mean his policy was no one has to... [14:21] I don't support Jimmy Carter. [14:22] Do you support the pardoning of people [14:25] who went on to be prosecuted [14:26] for sexually abusing a seven-year-old child, [14:28] illegal gun possession, [14:29] reckless homicide? [14:30] See the people who released... [14:31] See the people who released from prison. [14:33] He pardoned someone for sexually abusing a child. [14:34] No, but they went on to be convicted of it. [14:35] He pardoned someone for rebelling against a government [14:37] that they believed had rigged elections. [14:39] That's what he pardoned them for. [14:40] He didn't pardon them for sexual child abuse. [14:42] But they were criminals who committed those crimes. [14:44] He let them out. [14:44] So that means the crime rate goes up. [14:46] So you say they're criminals [14:47] because they did the crime, right? [14:48] Would you extend that to illegal immigrants [14:50] that they're all criminals [14:50] because they committed a crime? [14:51] I have a feeling your position is going to change. [14:53] The Supreme Court... [14:53] We're going to talk about immigration. [14:55] That someone who's illegally entered the United States, [14:56] not a criminal, [14:57] but somebody who illegally entered the Capitol is. [14:59] Not according to the Supreme Court of the United States. [15:00] The Supreme Court has said [15:03] the Supreme Court and we can jump to future claims. [15:05] Can I get the case site? [15:06] We can jump to... [15:07] You want to get the case? [15:07] The case site, please. [15:09] You said the Supreme Court. [15:09] The citation of the case. [15:10] Yes, the entering the United States illegally is not a crime. [15:12] It's called Arizona versus United States 2012. [15:15] Go look it up. [15:15] Pause. [15:16] Pause. [15:17] You've been voted out by the majority. [15:18] Please return to your seats. [15:25] Hey, how's it going? [15:25] How are you doing, sir? [15:26] Nice to meet you. [15:27] Maddie. [15:27] Nice to meet you. [15:27] Thank you for coming. [15:28] I appreciate you. [15:29] I really just more want to get an understanding. [15:31] When you say pro-criminal, what do you mean? [15:34] I mean that when confronted with people [15:36] who've committed criminal acts, [15:37] Donald Trump has been either soft on them, [15:40] friendly with them, pardon them, [15:42] and of course, let's not forget, [15:43] I mean, we've got five minutes left, [15:44] I'm surprised it hasn't come up earlier. [15:45] He's a convicted criminal himself [15:47] sitting in the White House. [15:48] Okay, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. [15:50] Yes. [15:50] Because I don't want a straw man you. [15:51] You're saying... [15:52] I appreciate that. [15:53] Every time that he's been confronted... [15:54] Not every time. [15:55] Most times. [15:55] I didn't say the words every time. [15:56] Most times. [15:56] A lot of the time. [15:57] A lot of the times. [15:58] Yes. [15:58] He's leaned towards criminal activity. [16:00] I didn't say criminal activity. [16:01] I mean, he has committed crimes. [16:02] Endorsed criminal. [16:03] He's been indicted. [16:04] Right. [16:04] 88 different criminal offenses in four different jurisdictions [16:07] by five different grand juries. [16:08] He was convicted himself on 34 different criminal offenses [16:11] by a jury of his peers. [16:13] But let's part that for a moment. [16:14] Okay. [16:14] Separate to his own crimes, [16:16] when confronted with the crimes of others [16:17] or the alleged crimes of others, [16:19] for example, a Chinese crypto billionaire, [16:21] Justin Sun, [16:21] who was being investigative of market manipulation, [16:24] Trump dropped the case, [16:25] invited him to the golf course, [16:27] invited him to the White House. [16:28] Plenty of examples. [16:28] And the guy invested $70 million in Trump's cryptocurrency. [16:30] So what I want to ask you this... [16:31] That's pro-crime in my view. [16:32] Is it possible... [16:34] Because remember, [16:34] the burden of proof's on you, right? [16:35] You have to prove... [16:36] Is it possible that all these things that he's done [16:39] that supposedly make him pro-crime... [16:41] Yeah. [16:41] Is there's another reason for the doing it? [16:44] There's other justification. [16:45] For example... [16:45] Oh, no... [16:46] Let me give an example, [16:47] and then you can... [16:47] Please. [16:47] ...rebut it. [16:48] The J6. [16:49] Yes. [16:49] Is it possible that he could have done this... [16:51] Yes. [16:52] ...to unite the country, [16:53] to move past, [16:54] to go to a new chapter? [16:55] If it's even possible, [16:56] I think you would have to admit [16:57] that there's another possibility, [16:59] therefore he's not pro-crime, [17:01] at least in possibility. [17:02] So let me agree and disagree. [17:03] Yep, yep, okay. [17:03] So I agree with you [17:04] that the intent could be different. [17:06] I don't think Donald Trump [17:07] was sitting there saying, [17:08] how can I increase the level of murders? [17:09] Let me release some murderers. [17:10] Right, right. [17:11] I'm not saying he did that on January 6th. [17:12] I don't think he was trying to unite the country. [17:14] That's where we disagree. [17:15] That's bullshit. [17:15] In fact, he divided the country further. [17:17] But intent doesn't really matter to my claim. [17:20] If he's releasing violent criminals... [17:22] Wait, wait, wait. [17:22] Intent doesn't matter? [17:23] No, he's pro-crime and pro-criminal. [17:25] No, but that's a big indictment [17:26] to say pro-crime. [17:28] That means he's for crime. [17:29] Well, he is, because I gave an example. [17:32] No, no, no. [17:32] It could be possible. [17:33] Okay, sorry, forgive me. [17:34] Your friend earlier, your ally, [17:36] said, where has he done stuff [17:38] that's increased the crime rate? [17:39] I'm telling you, [17:39] people have been pardoned [17:41] who have been convicted [17:41] on multiple other crimes. [17:43] These people who we pardoned [17:44] had previous criminal records. [17:45] They were not just some folks [17:47] chilling around and go, [17:48] we're against the takeover of our country, [17:49] we're opposed to a rebellion. [17:51] A lot of these people [17:52] were already hardened. [17:52] Criminals, militia members. [17:53] He looked at those people and said, [17:55] you know what? [17:56] They've been convicted, [17:57] in many cases, [17:57] by Republican judges, [17:58] but I'm going to let them out. [18:00] Yeah, that makes you pro-criminal. [18:01] Is it possible? [18:01] Very much so. [18:02] And if Joe Biden had done it, [18:03] you'd be attacking him. [18:04] Sure. [18:04] Is it possible that their conviction [18:06] was part of the plea? [18:07] It's like, oh shit, [18:08] I can't get out of this, [18:09] so I got to take a plea deal. [18:11] Some of them, maybe. [18:12] A lot of them, maybe? [18:12] Others we saw with our own [18:14] lying eyes on tape, [18:15] battering police officers. [18:16] So I want to eventually... [18:17] Did you watch live on January 6th? [18:19] What happened? [18:19] To be completely honest, [18:20] I'm pretty novice on this. [18:21] I'm more trying to target, [18:23] you're saying he's pro-crime [18:25] if I can finish for one second. [18:28] If I think of this law, [18:29] there's a possibility [18:30] that he might have had other reasons, [18:32] for example, unifying the country, [18:34] next chapter, right? [18:35] That that could be the reason. [18:36] Therefore, it's not pro-crime. [18:38] There was other reasons. [18:38] I'm just saying that's a possibility. [18:40] And if that's a possibility... [18:40] And I'm saying it's a possibility, [18:42] but I'm saying it's irrelevant [18:43] because if you're releasing, [18:44] knowingly, [18:45] releasing violent criminals [18:47] out into the community, [18:48] pardoning, not just releasing, [18:50] then yes, you are being pro-criminal. [18:51] And I've interviewed police officers. [18:53] I don't know about that case, but... [18:54] I've interviewed police officers. [18:55] Who have been assaulted, [18:57] beaten, had to retire [18:58] from the police office. [18:59] Broken bones. [19:00] Can I move really quickly? [19:01] Let me say this out. [19:01] I'll finish very quickly. [19:02] I've interviewed these police officers. [19:04] They've been beaten by people [19:05] who they've then seen [19:06] walk off the streets [19:07] and then carry on threatening them. [19:09] Yes, when Donald Trump [19:10] is responsible for that, [19:11] you're definitely pro-crime. [19:12] Okay, I doubt a lot of the sources, [19:14] but... [19:14] You doubt police officers [19:15] who testified to being assaulted. [19:17] You've been voted out by the majority. [19:19] Please return to your seat. [19:20] Thanks. [19:27] Hey, how's it going? [19:27] Good. [19:28] Nice to meet you, Mehdi. [19:30] So you claim that... [19:31] Your main claim is that [19:32] Trump pardoned some people [19:33] from January 6th. [19:34] By the way, I was there. [19:35] I saw it all firsthand. [19:37] About a football field away. [19:39] There's smoke in my eyes. [19:41] A bloodied... [19:42] It was a crazy day. [19:43] Were you convicted of any crimes? [19:44] No, of course not, [19:44] because I didn't enter the building. [19:46] You know, stay very peaceful. [19:48] But your entire claim [19:49] is that he pardoned... [19:50] That's not my entire claim. [19:51] Your bets, basically. [19:52] You keep bringing it up. [19:52] All you do is bring it up. [19:53] Okay, I'll mention some other people. [19:54] Let me say this. [19:55] Are you okay with his pardoning [19:56] of Paul Wolchak, [19:57] who stole money from his employees [19:58] for nine former members of Congress? [20:00] That's my claim. [20:01] He keeps pardoning criminals. [20:04] That makes him pro-criminal. [20:05] You know who else pardoned [20:06] a big criminal? [20:07] Go on. [20:07] Hunter Biden was pardoned [20:08] by his father. [20:09] He should have cracked cocaine. [20:10] He should have done that. [20:11] And he had hookers there, too. [20:13] I'm with you all. [20:14] I'm with you all. [20:14] But then why don't you claim [20:15] that Biden... [20:16] Go check my Twitter. [20:16] Why don't you claim [20:17] that Biden is pro-crimine? [20:17] I think Joe Biden, [20:18] that instant was pro-crimine. [20:19] He shouldn't have done it. [20:19] He shouldn't have done it. [20:20] Overall pro-crimine [20:21] just because he did that one. [20:22] No, no, but Joe Biden didn't just... [20:23] So if it was just a pardon, [20:25] then you'd be fine. [20:26] But I already mentioned, [20:27] there's also the fact [20:27] that Joe Biden [20:28] wasn't actually a convicted criminal [20:30] in office. [20:30] Trump has committed crimes. [20:31] Trump hangs around with criminals. [20:33] He spent much of the 80s [20:33] hanging around with the New York mob. [20:35] He hanged around [20:35] with Jeffrey Epstein [20:36] and Ghislaine Maxwell. [20:37] Well, that whole... [20:38] I can keep going. [20:39] Jeffrey Epstein lived [20:40] in West Palm Beach, [20:41] the area, [20:41] and that's the closest golf course [20:43] he could go to. [20:43] Do you think... [20:43] And he's very... [20:44] Do you think Donald Trump [20:44] is in the Epstein files? [20:45] So he paid. [20:45] As soon as Trump found out... [20:48] Do you think Donald Trump [20:49] is in the Epstein files? [20:49] No, I do not. [20:50] What is Elon Musk lying? [20:51] Let me explain this. [20:52] He lived in the area [20:54] in Mar-a-Lago, [20:55] near Mar-a-Lago, [20:55] so he bought, obviously, [20:57] a ticket to go in there. [20:58] As soon as Trump found out [21:00] that Epstein had done [21:00] all those bad things, [21:01] immediate ban from Mar-a-Lago. [21:02] That's not true, but okay. [21:03] Immediate ban from Mar-a-Lago. [21:04] Yes, it is. [21:04] That's not true. [21:05] Yes, it is, 100%. [21:06] In fact, Ghislaine Maxwell [21:06] recruited some of the girls [21:07] that were abused [21:08] from Mar-a-Lago. [21:09] So listen to this. [21:10] From Mar-a-Lago. [21:11] That's pretty outrageous, right? [21:12] Elon Musk tweeted that out [21:13] in a fit of rage, okay? [21:15] Sometimes people tell the truth [21:17] when they're angry. [21:17] Do you really think... [21:18] The truth comes out [21:18] when people are angry sometimes. [21:19] So Kash Patel... [21:20] We might see that today. [21:21] Kash Patel literally said [21:22] that Elon Musk [21:23] had no access [21:24] to the Epstein files. [21:26] Kash Patel said [21:26] that Epstein killed himself. [21:27] Do you agree with that? [21:29] Whatever he says goes then. [21:30] Yeah, I don't care. [21:31] You do? [21:31] He knows more information [21:32] than I do. [21:32] A lot of MAGA people [21:33] are upset with Kash Patel [21:34] for saying that. [21:35] But here's the actual claim. [21:37] Suddenly people are [21:37] trying to vote you out [21:38] because you said you agree [21:39] with Kash Patel on Epstein. [21:39] He knows more information [21:41] than I do. [21:42] All right, pause. [21:42] That's time. [21:43] Please return to your seat. [21:44] Good to meet you. [21:45] Yeah, take care. [21:48] Surrounded is now a podcast [21:49] available wherever you listen. [21:52] Search Surrounded, [21:53] plug in, [21:53] and stay part of the conversation [21:54] anywhere, anytime. [21:57] Next claim is that [22:03] Donald Trump [22:04] is defying the Constitution. [22:11] Nice to meet you. [22:11] Pleasure to meet you, sir. [22:12] Mehdi, lovely to meet you. [22:13] So I would say that [22:14] with Trump being anti-Constitution, [22:17] I don't really care [22:17] to be quite frankly. [22:19] Because in regards [22:20] to the Constitution, [22:24] the Constitution [22:25] is a document [22:25] that should seek to serve us. [22:27] And when it fails [22:28] to seek to serve us, [22:29] that can be amended. [22:30] Laws can be changed. [22:32] And quite frankly, [22:32] the fact is, [22:33] we're defending things [22:34] in this country [22:35] that shouldn't be defended. [22:36] The First Amendment [22:37] should not defend pornography [22:38] and making children [22:40] and women be victimized, [22:42] making women and children [22:44] be victimized [22:44] as a result of that. [22:45] I think things like blasphemy [22:47] shouldn't be allowed [22:47] per the First Amendment. [22:49] I think that quite frankly, [22:50] there are a lot [22:51] of legal processes [22:52] that are enabling criminals [22:53] and bad people [22:54] to fully enact [22:56] their will in this country [22:57] in the name [22:58] of the Constitution [22:59] or following the Constitution. [23:00] So quite frankly, [23:01] if Trump is anti-Constitution, [23:03] good. [23:03] And I think [23:04] he should go further. [23:04] So this is wonderfully revealing [23:07] of the modern conservative mindset. [23:09] So I appreciate you [23:10] spelling it out so openly. [23:12] Just checking, [23:12] do you support [23:13] the Second Amendment? [23:13] I do. [23:14] Okay. [23:15] Surprise. [23:15] I was shocked to hear that. [23:16] I'm saying that Donald Trump [23:18] is defying the First Amendment, [23:20] the Fourth Amendment, [23:20] the Fifth Amendment, [23:21] the Fourteenth Amendment. [23:22] He's thinking of defying [23:23] the Twelfth and Twenty-Second Amendments. [23:25] You're saying you don't care [23:26] about the Constitution, [23:27] but actually you do [23:27] because you quite like [23:28] the Second Amendment. [23:29] You just don't like the bits [23:29] that you disagree with. [23:30] Can I just be clear on that? [23:31] Yeah, absolutely. [23:32] Okay. [23:32] I'm more than willing to amend it [23:35] and include the Second Amendment. [23:36] Whenever it's in your favor? [23:37] Yeah, absolutely. [23:37] So can Democrats do the same [23:38] when they're in office? [23:39] No, absolutely not [23:40] because it's the friend and enemy. [23:41] So you don't believe in democracy? [23:42] No, I don't. [23:43] Absolutely not. [23:44] What do you believe in? [23:45] Autocracy. [23:46] By who? [23:48] Honestly, quite frankly, [23:49] anyone who is in line [23:50] with Catholic teaching. [23:51] Donald Trump is not Catholic. [23:53] Of course he's not. [23:55] I completely agree [23:56] and that's part of the problem. [23:57] You don't support Trump? [23:57] No, I don't. [23:58] I didn't even vote for him. [23:59] I wrote in like John Pork or someone. [24:01] I can't even remember. [24:03] Why did you vote [24:04] if you don't believe in democracy [24:05] and you want autocracy? [24:06] Well, because quite frankly, [24:07] I voted... [24:08] This is fascinating. [24:08] I kind of voted just to... [24:09] I came with this argument, [24:10] but I'm bored of my own argument. [24:11] I'm much more interested in this. [24:13] Yeah, absolutely. [24:13] How do we get to an autocracy? [24:15] I think quite frankly [24:16] that if we are able [24:17] to enact local leaders... [24:19] Who is the we, by the way? [24:21] I think quite frankly, [24:22] these far-right conservatives [24:23] sitting right around me. [24:23] White people? [24:24] Yeah, absolutely. [24:26] Well, actually, [24:27] I have quite... [24:28] Some of the people in this room [24:28] don't make the cut [24:29] from what I can see visually. [24:30] Actually, hold on for a moment. [24:32] I do think that there are people [24:33] who happen to not be white [24:34] who do actually have history [24:35] in this country [24:36] and have roots in this country. [24:37] For instance, [24:38] from the Mexican-American War, [24:39] we subsumed a lot of territory [24:41] of people who have far stakes [24:43] in this country [24:43] who happen to be Hispanic [24:44] or what have you. [24:45] I'm for defending [24:46] the traditional demographics [24:47] of this country, [24:48] which is majority white [24:50] and should stay that way. [24:51] How does the United States... [24:52] I mean, we've gone so off topic, [24:54] but how does the United States [24:55] look like under... [24:56] Sorry, what's your name? [24:57] My name is... [24:58] Well, my name's Connor. [25:00] It's a pleasure to meet you. [25:00] You took a little bit of a doubt there. [25:01] Oh, well, I use a pseudonym online, [25:03] but fair enough. [25:05] How would Connor's America look? [25:06] What would it look like? [25:07] Well, quite frankly, [25:08] I think we would deport people [25:09] who shouldn't be here. [25:09] I didn't ask about deporting. [25:10] What does the government look like? [25:11] What does the government look like? [25:12] Yeah. [25:13] I would say, quite frankly, [25:14] it's under a sort of benevolent leader [25:16] such as Franco. [25:17] Where does he come from? [25:18] It could be a kind of aristocratic class. [25:20] Could be someone who... [25:21] Who picks the autocrat? [25:23] Frankly, the people. [25:24] I mean, we could hold a vote on it. [25:25] Kings were paid. [25:26] So isn't that democracy? [25:27] Well, sure. [25:28] You can have a vote [25:29] to get to that state. [25:30] And then no more votes afterwards? [25:31] Absolutely. [25:32] Wow. [25:33] 100%. [25:33] Wow. [25:34] And if that autocrat kills you [25:35] and your family, [25:36] you're fine with that? [25:37] Well, I'm not going to be [25:39] a part of the group that he kills [25:40] because that's a whole thing. [25:41] How do you know? [25:42] How do you know? [25:42] Autocrats tend to kill everyone [25:44] even though they're insupportives. [25:44] Carl Schmitt makes this point [25:45] very well in his work. [25:46] It's the friend-enemy distinction, right? [25:48] You liberals... [25:48] Carl Schmitt, the Nazi theoretician. [25:50] Yeah, absolutely. [25:51] I don't care. [25:52] Are you a fan of the Nazis? [25:54] I don't care. [25:54] I frankly don't care [25:55] being called a Nazi at all. [25:56] I didn't say that. [25:57] I didn't actually say that. [25:58] I said, are you a fan of the Nazis? [25:59] Well, they persecuted the church a little bit. [26:01] I'm not a fan of that, but... [26:02] What about the persecution of the Jews? [26:05] Well, I mean, [26:05] I certainly don't support [26:07] anyone's human dignity [26:07] being assaulted. [26:08] I'm a Catholic. [26:09] But you don't condemn [26:10] Nazi persecution of the Jews? [26:12] I think that there was [26:14] a little bit of persecution [26:15] and stuff like that, [26:16] which is bad, but... [26:17] Because you're a little bit more [26:18] than a far-right Republican. [26:20] Hey, what can I say? [26:22] I think you could say [26:23] I'm a fascist. [26:24] Yeah, I am. [26:28] Absolutely. [26:29] I'm just checking who's clapping [26:30] just to get my set [26:31] of where everyone is on this. [26:32] Because you know that [26:33] millions of people [26:34] are going to be watching you [26:35] on YouTube and checking out [26:36] who the fascists and the Nazis are. [26:37] I'm not ashamed of that whatsoever. [26:38] No, clearly you're not. [26:39] Clearly you're not. [26:40] During the pre-war period [26:41] prior to World War II, [26:42] it was only those parties [26:43] that properly enacted [26:44] the people's will. [26:46] That's why they won. [26:47] The conservatives were fat cats. [26:49] They were aristocrats. [26:50] Are you in favor of killing people [26:51] who aren't like you? [26:53] Quite frankly, I'm not. [26:54] You mentioned Franco earlier. [26:55] Franco killed a lot [26:56] of innocent people. [26:57] Oh, well, he killed communists. [26:58] He killed people who raped nuns [26:59] and killed priests. [27:00] What about children who he killed [27:01] and women who he killed? [27:02] What are you talking about? [27:03] He never killed any women [27:03] or children. [27:04] He was Catholic, dude. [27:04] He only killed combatants. [27:05] Is that what you're claiming? [27:06] Yeah, he only killed combatants. [27:07] He never killed any innocent people. [27:08] The white terror was only punishing [27:10] those people who did acts of terrorism. [27:12] And again, are you supporting [27:13] raping innocent women? [27:15] Nuns, dude. [27:16] Killing priests? [27:17] I mean, priests don't brandish guns [27:19] and kill people. [27:19] You just refuse to condemn [27:20] the Nazi Holocaust, my friend. [27:22] I don't think you're in a position [27:22] to ask anyone any questions. [27:24] I quite frankly don't care [27:25] what you think about me. [27:26] If I'm a Nazi and being a Nazi... [27:28] And the feeling is mutual. [27:29] And being a Nazi means [27:30] upholding human dignity [27:31] because I even believe [27:32] in your dignity. [27:33] I don't... [27:33] In a state that I was running, [27:35] I wouldn't want to hurt you [27:37] or anything like that. [27:38] But quite frankly... [27:39] I don't debate fascists. [27:40] Okay. [27:42] So do you concede then? [27:43] I mean, why... [27:43] Do I concede you're a fascist [27:45] who won't condemn the Nazis? [27:45] Yes, I concede that. [27:46] Okay, great. [27:48] So I mean, [27:48] what are we doing here? [27:49] Because I mean, [27:50] you just seem offended. [27:51] I don't know what you're doing here. [27:51] You just seem offended [27:52] to be quite frankly. [27:53] I'm offended by people [27:54] who can't condemn the Nazis. [27:56] Yes, I am. [27:56] Okay. [27:57] Well, I condemn the evils [27:59] that they did, [28:00] but I don't really care [28:01] about being... [28:01] Against the Jews? [28:02] Yeah, sure. [28:02] I don't care about being called [28:05] a Nazi is the whole thing. [28:06] I never called you a Nazi. [28:06] You called yourself a Nazi, [28:08] a fascist, [28:08] and a General Franco supporter. [28:09] Oh, yeah. [28:10] I am a General Franco supporter. [28:11] He was awesome. [28:12] He was super cool, [28:13] quite frankly. [28:14] Because the whole thing... [28:14] And you don't believe in democracy? [28:15] I don't believe in democracy. [28:16] What are you doing here [28:17] at a televised debate? [28:19] This is democracy. [28:19] I don't want to debate [28:20] and disagree. [28:20] Because it is the means [28:21] to support an end. [28:22] The reason we have free speech now [28:24] is because we want to be [28:25] openly talking about our opinions [28:26] so we can get the state [28:27] that we want. [28:28] But it doesn't mean [28:28] a folding free speech [28:30] after we win. [28:31] The only good thing [28:32] about this fascist moment [28:33] we're in [28:34] is that you guys [28:35] are so open about it. [28:36] The whole reason [28:36] I mentioned Carl Schmitt [28:39] earlier and he kind of [28:40] blew past him [28:41] is the friend-enemy distinction. [28:43] Even liberals, [28:44] when they take power, [28:45] they want to enact policies [28:47] and they want to enact protections [28:49] for their people [28:50] and their ideas [28:51] and they're willing [28:51] to punish their enemy. [28:53] And so I'm the same way. [28:54] I'm like, [28:54] hey, if you're going to punish me, [28:56] I'm going to get in power [28:57] and I'm going to frankly punish you [28:58] when you try to leverage [28:59] power against me. [29:00] It's just that simple. [29:07] I'm not sure what you're going to say. [29:09] Hey, it is what it is. [29:12] All right. [29:13] Pause. [29:13] You've been voted out [29:14] by the majority. [29:15] Please return to your seat. [29:16] It's a pleasure to meet you, sir. [29:17] I can't say the same, [29:18] but thank you. [29:27] Good to meet you, Matthew. [29:28] Good to meet you, sir. [29:29] All right. [29:30] So I kind of want to start [29:31] at the basics [29:32] or the foundation. [29:33] I want to see what... [29:34] Can I just check? [29:34] Yes. [29:35] Are you a fascist? [29:35] No. [29:36] Okay. [29:36] I describe myself as, [29:39] I think, just a Christian. [29:40] Fair enough. [29:40] I'm a devout Christian. [29:42] Good to hear. [29:42] So, [29:43] I want to start, [29:45] like, [29:45] what is your connection [29:46] to the Constitution [29:47] and why do you love it so much? [29:50] Like, [29:50] what makes it so important [29:51] that Trump would defy [29:52] something like the Constitution [29:54] to you personally? [29:54] Great questions. [29:55] My first connection [29:56] is I'm an American citizen. [29:57] I naturalize American citizen. [29:59] Took a pledge [30:00] to this country, [30:01] to the Constitution. [30:02] as a previous speaker [30:04] has said, [30:05] Constitution's not perfect. [30:06] A lot of things [30:06] I don't like about it. [30:07] I don't like the Second Amendment. [30:09] There's various amendments. [30:10] I don't like the way [30:10] the Senate is set up. [30:12] I'm sure there's things [30:12] you don't like [30:13] about the Constitution. [30:14] The difference is, [30:15] I don't think you can just [30:16] illegally defy the Constitution. [30:18] I don't think each and everyone [30:19] is going to make up [30:19] whatever we want. [30:20] Certainly presidents [30:21] who are elected [30:21] with an oath, [30:23] right? [30:23] Donald Trump took an oath [30:24] to preserve, [30:25] protect, [30:25] defend the Constitution. [30:26] And now when he's asked [30:27] on television, [30:28] isn't it your job [30:28] to uphold the Constitution? [30:29] He said on NBC, [30:30] I don't know, [30:31] which goes against his oath. [30:32] And I'm identifying [30:33] specific amendments [30:34] where he is violating. [30:35] He's only six months [30:35] into his presidency [30:36] defying the First Amendment, [30:37] the Fourth Amendment, [30:38] the Fifth Amendment, [30:39] the Fourteenth Amendment. [30:40] He wants to defy [30:41] the 22nd Amendment [30:41] and be president [30:42] for a third term. [30:44] This is the problem [30:45] we have right now. [30:45] Free speech is under assault. [30:46] The free press is under assault. [30:48] Due process is under assault. [30:50] The right to be in your home [30:51] and not be invaded [30:51] by federal agents, [30:52] the Fourth Amendment, [30:53] is under assault. [30:54] So that for me [30:55] is a problem. [30:55] Okay. [30:56] Well, I'd like to start to say [30:58] I really don't find [30:59] the Constitution [31:00] that important. [31:01] I find it to be [31:01] like a 300-year-old document. [31:04] And it was created [31:05] to defy the country [31:08] that subjugated [31:09] your ancestors in India. [31:11] And then your parents [31:12] probably moved [31:12] from India to Britain. [31:14] And then you moved here [31:15] to tell us [31:16] that we should listen [31:17] to a piece of paper [31:18] that you were never [31:19] even connected to [31:20] to begin with. [31:22] So I want to say, [31:24] like, if I don't care about it, [31:25] why do you care [31:26] about it so much? [31:27] How do you run a country [31:28] without any kind of laws [31:29] or due process? [31:30] And by the way, [31:30] you do care about it [31:31] because without the First Amendment, [31:32] you wouldn't be sitting here. [31:33] Oh, I agree with the First Amendment. [31:35] So do you agree [31:35] with Donald Trump's crackdown [31:36] on the First Amendment? [31:37] He's imprisoning people [31:38] for their speech. [31:39] He's threatening [31:41] free speech media organizations. [31:43] He's threatening [31:43] peaceable assembly. [31:44] These are all rights [31:45] under the First Amendment. [31:46] Why aren't you bothered by that [31:46] as a conservative who claims [31:47] to love the First Amendment? [31:48] So I actually, [31:49] I don't like the First Amendment. [31:50] I like free speech. [31:51] Okay, so the First Amendment [31:52] is what guarantees free speech. [31:53] I'm from the UK, by the way. [31:54] It guarantees free speech. [31:55] I'm from the UK, [31:55] which is a democracy. [31:56] We don't have the First Amendment. [31:58] No, that's one of the things [31:59] I do like about the Constitution. [32:00] I wish the UK did have [32:00] a First Amendment. [32:01] So people that get arrested [32:02] for praying outside abortion clinics [32:04] and stuff like that, right? [32:05] So you're opposed [32:07] to people being arrested [32:08] for speech crimes, I assume. [32:09] Well, it depends what it is. [32:10] If it's like the people... [32:11] Oh, so you're like [32:11] one of the previous speakers. [32:12] As long as it's someone [32:13] who agrees with you, [32:13] you don't mind the crackdown. [32:14] No, no, no, I support... [32:15] Either we consistently [32:16] support principles or we don't. [32:17] I support free speech 100%. [32:18] Okay. [32:18] I don't think anyone... [32:19] So do you think Donald Trump [32:20] is defying the Constitution [32:21] by cracking down [32:22] on the First Amendment? [32:23] So I think he's cracking down [32:24] on free speech [32:25] like the deportation [32:27] of Mahmoud Khalil, [32:28] who's a... [32:28] Who was just released [32:29] from prison by a judge [32:30] saying his First Amendment [32:30] rights were violating. [32:31] And I agree with the judge [32:33] and I disagree [32:33] with Trump deporting them. [32:35] But I think that's more [32:36] a matter of free speech [32:36] and not the Constitution. [32:38] I think that's pedantry [32:39] at this moment. [32:40] I think you've conceded [32:41] that he is cracking down [32:41] on free speech, [32:42] which is the First Amendment. [32:43] So he is defying the Constitution. [32:44] So it's a pleasure to be [32:45] in agreement with you, sir. [32:46] All right, pause. [32:47] You've been voted out [32:48] by the majority. [32:49] Please return to your seat. [32:49] Thank you very much. [32:57] Good to meet you, sir. [32:58] I'm Mehdi. [32:59] Mehdi. [32:59] Great to meet you. [33:00] My name is Kai. [33:02] Do you, Mehdi, believe [33:03] that the Constitution [33:04] is important and good? [33:06] Overall, yes. [33:07] Do you believe [33:07] that that Constitution [33:08] can be eroded [33:09] through democratic processes? [33:11] What do you mean by erode? [33:12] The original intention [33:13] of the Constitution [33:14] being destroyed [33:15] through a purely, you know, [33:16] democratic or legal process. [33:19] I'm not sure I agree with that. [33:20] Okay. [33:20] I think if you're democratically [33:21] amending the Constitution [33:22] per the rules of the Constitution, [33:23] that's fine. [33:24] If we could find a constitutional way [33:25] to get rid of the Second Amendment, [33:26] I'd be pro that. [33:27] So let's pose a hypothetical [33:30] wherein the entire population [33:31] of the United States [33:32] has drastically changed [33:33] and the population now [33:34] has completely different intentions [33:37] about what to do [33:37] with the country. [33:38] Let's say it wants [33:39] to give it all back to Mexico, [33:40] dismantling the United States [33:41] of America. [33:42] If that's the case, [33:44] then what's the use [33:44] of the Constitution? [33:45] It hasn't defended the country. [33:47] In fact, [33:47] it's allowed for its destruction. [33:48] I don't understand the premise. [33:50] How did the whole country change? [33:52] Demographic replacement. [33:53] Mass migration. [33:54] I mean, [33:54] we're seeing a change [33:55] of demographics. [33:56] And there's... [33:57] What is the... [33:58] I do want to talk [33:59] about immigration today. [34:00] I hope we talk about it. [34:01] Everyone's itching [34:02] in this group [34:03] to get immigration. [34:04] I've saved it. [34:04] I've saved it for you all. [34:05] But given we're on [34:06] the sense of the Constitution [34:07] and you asked the question, [34:08] what is the proportion [34:09] of immigrants in this country? [34:11] What proportion [34:12] of the population [34:12] is foreign-born? [34:13] It's very difficult [34:14] to measure [34:15] because the actual [34:16] projections of the number [34:17] have been changing [34:18] more rapidly. [34:18] But what is currently [34:19] the best estimate [34:20] of official estimates? [34:21] I think it was about 15%. [34:22] Yes. [34:22] Just under 15%. [34:24] Which is, by the way, [34:24] which is more actually [34:26] than the original estimate was. [34:28] But 15% of the people [34:29] are going to change [34:29] the country, [34:30] change the Constitution. [34:31] How's that going to be? [34:31] It's actually a nightmare. [34:32] As someone who wants [34:33] to amend the Constitution [34:34] and get rid of things [34:35] like the ridiculous way [34:36] the Senate is set up [34:37] or the Second Amendment [34:38] on guns [34:38] or various other things, [34:39] it's really hard [34:41] to change the Constitution. [34:41] They made it almost impossible. [34:43] You know the last time [34:44] we had a Constitutional Amendment? [34:45] You know what? [34:45] Like 20, 30 years ago. [34:46] I understand, which is why... [34:46] And it was all I think [34:47] members of Congress pay. [34:48] Which is why... [34:49] No, I get it. [34:49] So where are you getting [34:50] this scenario [34:51] where 350-odd million people [34:53] all become foreign-born migrants [34:55] or the children of migrants, [34:56] immediate migrants, [34:57] even though America [34:57] is a nation of migrants, [34:58] and then abandon the Constitution [35:00] and give the country [35:01] back to Mexico? [35:02] Outside of your imagination, [35:04] where is that happening? [35:05] Well, let's bring it back [35:06] to the actual discussion. [35:07] What you did is, [35:07] you entertained my hypothetical, [35:10] but then instead of sticking [35:11] to the point of the Constitution, [35:12] you said, [35:12] well, how would you bring about [35:13] your hypothetical? [35:14] And then when I gave you... [35:14] Because you missed out [35:15] the part where the Constitution [35:16] is quite hard to change. [35:16] Hold on, hold on. [35:17] I understand that. [35:18] I also wanted to get a sense [35:20] of where you are [35:20] and you're a great replacement guy. [35:22] So that's fine. [35:22] Okay, yeah. [35:23] And you're a real good journalist [35:24] because you don't talk to people [35:25] who identify as like [35:26] a political ideology. [35:27] I mean, that's a very liberal idea. [35:28] I don't debate fascists. [35:30] I'll talk to them, [35:30] but I won't debate them. [35:31] Frankly, that's upsetting. [35:32] I think there's a big problem [35:33] when we value freedom of speech so much, [35:35] but any real journalist [35:36] is not going to talk to somebody [35:37] because they identify [35:38] with the politically incorrect ideology. [35:40] Just talk to the guy in front of you. [35:41] What are you talking about? [35:42] You literally stop talking to him [35:43] and then everybody [35:44] had to vote him out. [35:45] Debating versus talking [35:46] is very different. [35:46] It's pointless, right? [35:47] He doesn't believe in free speech. [35:49] He doesn't believe in democracy. [35:51] He was freely speaking with you. [35:52] You're the one who shut up. [35:53] No, he said it very clearly. [35:54] Okay, so I support free speech [35:55] so that I can get one election. [35:57] After one election, [35:58] my guy comes in [35:58] and after my guy comes in, [36:00] nobody gets to speak [36:01] or vote again. [36:02] Why would I debate that? [36:03] We listen to your conversation. [36:04] Let's bring it back to this topic. [36:05] Because you just misrepresented. [36:06] Let's bring it back to the Constitution. [36:07] Please do. [36:08] First, fourth, fifth, [36:10] 14th Amendment. [36:11] Those are the ones [36:11] I'm saying Trump is defying. [36:12] Do you support that [36:13] or do you deny them? [36:14] I believe that the Constitution [36:15] is valuable [36:15] because it represents [36:16] particular interests [36:18] of the founding stock [36:18] of Americans [36:19] who made this country great. [36:20] Do you think due process [36:21] is important? [36:21] Some would say [36:22] that's at the very core [36:23] of American Constitution. [36:24] Fifth Amendment. [36:24] And what I think [36:25] makes the Constitution function, [36:27] what allows it to [36:28] save this country [36:30] and to actually make it work [36:31] are the people who are... [36:33] I'm not sure [36:33] where you're going [36:34] with this argument. [36:34] Hold on, hold on. [36:34] Is Trump defying [36:35] the Constitution? [36:36] That's my claim. [36:37] You can have these weird [36:38] hypotheticals about... [36:39] We're taking it [36:39] into a different meta [36:40] which is what's the function [36:41] of the Constitution? [36:42] I'd rather not have your... [36:43] You already did. [36:44] You already did. [36:44] Literally just five minutes ago [36:45] when you took it to immigration, pal. [36:46] Now I don't want to. [36:47] Okay, let's bring it back. [36:48] I want to bring it back [36:49] to the first, the fourth, [36:50] the fifth, and the 14th Amendment [36:51] and the 22nd Amendment. [36:53] Look, then let me throw [36:53] it to your question. [36:54] Hold on, you've got [36:55] two very good positions here. [36:56] One is to say [36:56] I don't think he's defying them [36:57] and I'll say why you're wrong. [36:59] Or you say [36:59] I don't care that he's defying them [37:01] as one of your colleagues said [37:01] in which case [37:02] I don't know where [37:03] this conversation goes [37:04] because you don't believe [37:05] in democracy. [37:05] That's fair. [37:06] Do you think it's wrong [37:07] to dismantle the Constitution? [37:10] So there's two options [37:11] ahead of you. [37:11] Do you agree? [37:12] This is important. [37:13] What I'm doing is... [37:13] So is Donald Trump... [37:14] Okay, let me ask the question back [37:15] since you're asking me questions. [37:16] You're not answering [37:16] the basic point. [37:17] Do you think Donald Trump [37:18] is dismantling the Constitution? [37:19] Can we agree that Donald Trump [37:20] is dismantling? [37:21] Because I'll agree with you on that. [37:22] I think he is dismantling [37:23] the Constitution. [37:23] I think he's... [37:24] Illegally, unconstitutionally, [37:25] undemocratically. [37:25] He's interpreting it [37:26] in ways that are more congruent. [37:27] Which judges do not agree [37:28] with him on. [37:29] Okay, hold on. [37:29] Which the Supreme Court [37:30] has not agreed with him on. [37:31] And the judges don't agree [37:32] with the people [37:32] who wrote the Constitution. [37:34] How do you know that? [37:35] Okay. [37:36] Let's take your example [37:37] of the Second Amendment. [37:38] Let's say that a bunch of judges... [37:39] I didn't give the Second Amendment. [37:40] No, no, no. [37:40] Hold on, hold on. [37:41] I said first, fourth... [37:41] You don't want to talk about [37:42] the ones I've given. [37:42] You're interrupting me. [37:43] You're interrupting me. [37:44] You're ignoring me. [37:45] First, fourth, fifth, [37:46] 14th, 22nd Amendments. [37:48] Those are my amendments [37:49] that I came with today. [37:49] If you don't want to debate them, [37:50] just say so. [37:51] I'm trying to understand [37:52] your ideology. [37:52] Just say so. [37:53] You believe that [37:54] dismantling the Constitution [37:55] is okay when it's about [37:56] parts of the Constitution [37:58] that you disagree with. [37:58] 14th, 22nd Amendments. [37:59] You would be fine [38:00] getting rid of the Second Amendment [38:01] even though that would be [38:01] a dismantling of the Constitution. [38:02] No, because it would be done [38:03] via constitutional means. [38:04] I'm not the one sitting here [38:06] like your pal saying [38:07] I'm not the one saying [38:09] you just get rid of them [38:10] willy-nilly. [38:11] I don't agree. [38:11] We're ramping up. [38:12] I don't agree that Joe Biden [38:14] should come in [38:15] and say by executive order, [38:16] if Joe Biden put out [38:17] executive order saying [38:18] Second Amendment no longer [38:19] it applies. [38:20] I can round up [38:21] everyone's guns. [38:22] I don't agree with that. [38:23] Your result is exactly the same. [38:23] I don't agree with them. [38:24] No, but I don't agree [38:25] with the method of doing it. [38:26] It's unconstitutional. [38:27] That's fine. [38:27] He would have been [38:27] defying the Constitution [38:29] and I would have said so [38:30] but you can't bring yourself [38:31] to say so. [38:31] We've been sitting here [38:32] for several minutes. [38:33] All of your friends [38:33] have seen me ask you [38:34] several times. [38:35] Do you agree that [38:35] Donald Trump is defying [38:36] the First, Fourth, Fifth, [38:38] Fourteenth, and possibly [38:39] 22nd Amendments? [38:40] Your colleague at least admitted [38:41] that he's defying [38:42] the First Amendment. [38:43] You won't do it. [38:44] What you are attempting to do [38:46] is simply frame this conversation [38:47] like you did with [38:48] the first claim [38:48] about Donald Trump [38:49] but then when anybody [38:50] asks you any kind of question [38:51] that presses you [38:52] to the least degree [38:52] No, I answered. [38:53] I said I would dispensel [38:54] the Constitution [38:54] but I would do it [38:55] constitutionally [38:56] not by executive order. [38:57] So what I'm trying to get to [38:58] is to prove to everybody [38:59] who's watching [38:59] that what you care about [39:00] is not the Constitution [39:01] in what it represents [39:02] or creates. [39:03] You care about the Constitution [39:04] only insofar as it allows you [39:06] to achieve your political worldview. [39:08] We agree on that. [39:09] No, I care about the Constitution [39:10] because I don't think [39:11] presidents should be [39:12] fascist dictators [39:14] and violate the Constitution. [39:16] That's what I'm saying. [39:17] You care. [39:18] And he is defying. [39:18] I don't think the president [39:19] should have the power [39:19] to lock you and me up [39:20] if we write an op-ed [39:21] that he doesn't like. [39:22] That's awesome. [39:23] I agree. [39:23] I don't think the president [39:23] should be able to crack down on us [39:25] if you and I decide [39:26] to go protest [39:26] outside his parade. [39:28] I agree with you. [39:28] I don't think the president [39:29] should be able to deprive [39:29] you and I of due process [39:30] or come into our homes [39:31] without a warrant. [39:32] Well, let's under an agreement then. [39:33] All right, pause. [39:34] You've been voted out. [39:35] I'm glad we ended on agreement. [39:36] It's good to meet you, Kai. [39:44] Hey, how are you? [39:44] I'm Eddie. [39:45] Hi, I'm Jessica. [39:46] Nice to meet you. [39:46] How are you? [39:47] So Trump is defying [39:49] the first, fourth, fifth. [39:51] Fifth and 14th [39:52] and maybe the 22nd soon. [39:54] Okay. [39:55] So I want to focus on the first [39:56] and the fifth. [39:58] Okay. [39:58] So you say that Trump [39:59] is defying the First Amendment. [40:02] Can you give me an example? [40:04] For example, [40:04] he banned the Associated Press [40:06] from attending White House events. [40:07] A Trump-appointed judge [40:08] said that was against [40:08] the First Amendment. [40:09] He's been cracking down [40:10] on media organizations [40:11] he doesn't like over their speech. [40:13] If they say stuff he doesn't like, [40:14] he, for example, [40:15] Cracking down how? [40:16] So, for example, [40:17] he banned the Associated Press [40:18] from attending White House events [40:19] because they said [40:20] it's the Gulf of Mexico. [40:21] That's not how it works. [40:22] They were already at the White House. [40:23] He deprived them for access [40:24] so he punished them for their speech. [40:25] But are they allowed [40:26] to go to the press as well? [40:27] Which is why a judge he appointed, [40:29] Trevor McFadden, [40:29] said this was contrary [40:30] to the First Amendment. [40:31] A Trump-appointed judge. [40:32] He's called MSNBC and CNN illegal. [40:35] Media organizations [40:35] are not ipso facto illegal. [40:36] But that's free speech. [40:37] He can call them [40:38] whatever they want. [40:38] Attacking the media [40:39] by the president [40:41] as the executive? [40:42] Yeah, he can say [40:42] whatever he wants. [40:43] That's literally the First Amendment. [40:45] He can say whatever he wants. [40:46] Absolutely. [40:46] But the media can't say [40:47] what they want. [40:47] They do. [40:48] But he's going after them. [40:49] He's suing them. [40:49] He's using lawsuits [40:50] to crack down on the press. [40:51] They use lawsuits [40:52] to give him 34 felonies [40:54] that Hillary Clinton did. [40:55] No media gave him a lawsuit. [40:56] No, but people [40:57] on the Democratic side. [40:58] We're not talking [40:59] about the Democrats. [40:59] Okay. [41:01] So he can call them [41:02] whatever he wants [41:02] because that's [41:03] the freedom of speech. [41:04] He's threatened [41:05] to imprison reporters. [41:06] He wants to imprison. [41:07] He said reporters [41:08] should go to prison [41:09] for reporting. [41:10] He threatened some of them [41:10] with prison rape. [41:12] That is against [41:12] the First Amendment. [41:14] Okay. [41:14] How is that against [41:15] the First Amendment? [41:16] You don't think [41:16] sending reporters to prison [41:17] for reporting [41:18] that he doesn't like... [41:19] Did he do that? [41:19] He wanted to. [41:20] He said so. [41:20] I would like them to go. [41:21] I would really like to... [41:22] So other people stopped him [41:24] doesn't mean [41:24] he's not defying the Constitution. [41:25] He also said [41:26] if you turn up... [41:27] Excuse me. [41:27] He can want [41:28] to do something. [41:29] Yes. [41:30] That doesn't mean [41:30] he will or he can. [41:31] Okay. [41:32] And I think he's very aware of that. [41:32] Well, I've already gave you [41:33] an example of something [41:33] he did do [41:34] to the Associated Press, [41:34] but okay. [41:35] Yeah, okay. [41:35] So the Associated Press [41:36] is allowed in the Oval Office, [41:38] which is his office. [41:39] That's his executive space. [41:40] Okay. [41:41] And they are allowed [41:42] in the press room, [41:43] just like CNN, [41:44] just like The Guardian. [41:46] Which he thinks [41:46] are illegal media organizations. [41:49] He can think [41:49] whatever he wants. [41:50] He calls the media [41:50] the enemies of the people. [41:51] You call him a fascist. [41:52] Yeah. [41:53] You can say [41:54] whatever you want. [41:55] Yes. [41:55] Yes. [41:56] But the president is... [41:56] I'm not the president [41:57] of the United States [41:58] with the executive power [41:58] to crack down on the media. [42:00] So then the First Amendment [42:00] only applies to the citizens [42:01] but not the president [42:02] of the United States. [42:02] I never said that. [42:03] In fact, Donald Trump [42:03] runs his mouth [42:04] more than anyone. [42:05] Absolutely, he does. [42:06] He is. [42:06] He doesn't just say stuff, [42:07] as I said. [42:08] He actually does stuff. [42:09] He actually does crack down. [42:10] For example, [42:11] Fifth Amendment. [42:12] Yes. [42:13] Due process. [42:14] Yes. [42:14] Judges have actually said [42:15] you have violated due process [42:16] of people on trial. [42:17] Except for people [42:18] kind of forget [42:18] the Clinton, [42:20] the 1996 [42:21] Immigration Reform Act [42:23] where you can [42:24] get limited due process [42:26] when you have expedited... [42:28] American citizens? [42:29] No. [42:30] What about American citizens? [42:31] Who's getting deported [42:32] that's American? [42:33] American children [42:33] have been deported [42:34] multiple this year. [42:35] Oh, no, no, no. [42:36] Their parents have been deported [42:37] and their parents say [42:38] I'm going to take my baby. [42:39] No. [42:40] Was mom legal? [42:41] We don't know [42:41] because they didn't go to court [42:43] and the judge... [42:43] They don't have to go to court. [42:44] Yes. [42:45] That's not a part of the process. [42:46] Are you a lawyer? [42:47] I'm very aware of it. [42:48] Are you a lawyer? [42:48] Do I have to be? [42:49] Oh, we're making an argument now [42:51] from... [42:52] It's a simple question. [42:52] Are you a lawyer? [42:53] Okay. [42:53] We're making an argument. [42:54] I'll take that as a no. [42:55] A Trump-appointed judge [42:57] in the case, [42:58] not some Marxist lefty judge [43:00] as you people like to call them. [43:01] A Trump-appointed [43:02] conservative judge [43:03] said you cannot, [43:04] it is illegal [43:04] and unconstitutional [43:05] to expel or deport [43:07] an American citizen [43:07] without meaningful process. [43:09] He said that in April. [43:11] So that was an act [43:12] that Trump did. [43:13] It wasn't speech. [43:14] He got rid of an American citizen [43:15] from the country [43:16] without process. [43:17] That's the Fifth Amendment violation. [43:19] Since I'm not up to date [43:21] on that specific case... [43:22] I'll give you more. [43:23] I'm sure you can. [43:25] Well, you weren't aware [43:25] that American citizens [43:26] were being deported. [43:26] It's a pretty big story. [43:27] Yeah, the child... [43:27] Maybe if you read the fake news, [43:29] you might know. [43:29] What? [43:30] If you read the fake news, [43:31] you might know what's going on. [43:32] A lot of American citizens [43:33] have been deported. [43:33] Oh, how would I know [43:33] what's going on if I read fake news? [43:34] I don't watch CNN [43:35] or Rachel Maddow. [43:36] Sorry. [43:36] That's why you don't know [43:37] that your fellow citizens [43:38] have been deported this year. [43:39] My fellow citizens, no. [43:40] Are they not? [43:40] American citizens [43:40] haven't been deported? [43:41] Okay. [43:42] When a child goes with their adult... [43:43] All right, guys, [43:44] that's time. [43:45] Please return to your seat. [43:46] Nice to meet you. [43:46] Nice to meet you. [43:47] Hey, before we go any further, [43:51] we want to take a moment [43:52] to say thanks so much [43:53] to Straight Error News [43:54] for powering the fact chats [43:55] in this video. [43:56] Straight Error News [43:57] is on a mission [43:58] to raise the bar on journalism [43:59] in a time of media bias [44:01] and mistrust. [44:02] Straight Error News [44:03] helps you quickly find [44:04] trusted information [44:05] you need [44:05] to understand the news, [44:07] allowing you to dive deep [44:08] into the topics [44:09] that matter to you [44:10] and the world around you. [44:11] Their work is trying [44:12] to break the bias bubble, [44:14] helping you understand [44:15] how every side [44:16] of the political spectrum [44:17] is reporting on a story [44:18] so you get a full picture [44:19] of the news. [44:20] That's why we're so happy [44:21] to be partnering [44:21] with Straight Error News. [44:23] They deliver the facts, [44:24] unbiased, balanced, [44:26] and designed to make sense [44:27] of a complex world, [44:28] getting you the clarity [44:29] you deserve [44:30] and news you can trust. [44:31] Go to san.com slash surrounded [44:34] or click the link [44:35] in the description [44:35] to check it out. [44:36] By clicking that link, [44:37] you're not just [44:38] supporting this channel. [44:39] You also take advantage [44:40] of a better way [44:41] to get the news. [44:42] Welcome back [44:43] to Trustworthy Journalism. [44:44] Thanks again to [44:45] Straight Error News [44:46] for partnering with us [44:47] on this episode. [44:48] Now, let's get into it. [44:49] My next claim [44:50] is that immigrants [44:51] overall are good for America. [44:59] Hi, how are you? [45:00] Hello, nice to meet you. [45:01] Daniela. [45:02] So, in regards to your claim, [45:03] I just want to start [45:04] by asking this. [45:05] Do you care more [45:05] about helping Americans [45:06] or immigrants [45:07] in this claim? [45:08] Immigrants are Americans. [45:09] I'm an immigrant [45:09] and an American. [45:10] Well, immigrants [45:11] are not Americans. [45:12] Americans are the people [45:12] that were born here. [45:13] That's not true. [45:15] What's the basis [45:15] of your claim for that? [45:16] Are you talking about people [45:17] that get naturalized [45:18] in the process [45:18] of becoming American? [45:19] Yes, 14th Amendment. [45:20] Have you read it? [45:20] Okay, yes, I have. [45:21] Citizenship clause. [45:22] It says any persons [45:23] born or naturalized [45:24] in the United States [45:25] are citizens [45:25] of the United States. [45:26] I'm aware of that. [45:27] There's about 40 to 50 million [45:28] naturalized Americans [45:29] in this country. [45:30] Yes, but... [45:31] You didn't seem aware of it [45:32] because you said [45:32] Americans versus immigrants. [45:34] So, but are you understanding [45:36] that the process [45:37] of getting all these immigrants [45:38] that come in here for... [45:40] We've been also... [45:41] The millions of immigrants. [45:42] It's up to the millions. [45:43] It's the last 20 years now [45:44] and it has dramatically affected [45:45] Americans here in the country, [45:47] which people... [45:47] Positively, I would argue. [45:49] People like me [45:50] and everyone around here, [45:51] we cannot find homes [45:52] or even get jobs [45:52] within our own fields [45:53] that we go to college for [45:54] that we get into debt for. [45:56] And because more blue-collar work, [45:59] especially in construction, [46:01] agriculture and so forth [46:02] and the hospitality industry, [46:03] we cannot get jobs [46:04] in those fields. [46:05] So it requires us... [46:05] Are you looking for a job [46:06] in construction or agriculture? [46:06] I am not, no. [46:07] I went to college. [46:08] Many people here are in college [46:10] or went to college [46:11] but we can't even find jobs [46:12] in our fields. [46:13] Also because of the H-1B visa program [46:14] as well. [46:15] But in regards to just your claim [46:16] about immigrants specifically, [46:18] we cannot even get jobs [46:19] to pay for housing. [46:21] Unemployment is at a record low [46:22] right now, [46:22] even under Donald Trump. [46:23] And I'm not a Donald Trump fan [46:24] but I would say [46:24] unemployment under both Biden [46:26] and Trump [46:26] has been at record low levels. [46:28] Okay. [46:28] Is this in regards [46:29] for American citizens? [46:31] Yes. [46:31] Okay. [46:32] Okay. [46:33] Well, I'm unaware of that statistic [46:34] but from what I see, [46:35] from what I consistently... [46:36] I'm an immigrant [46:36] and an American [46:37] and I employ many American citizens [46:39] both naturalized [46:40] and the ones born here. [46:41] I employ Americans. [46:42] No, my parents came as... [46:43] Americans as defined by you. [46:44] My parents came as immigrants [46:45] to become naturalized [46:46] so I'm not necessarily [46:46] opposed to immigrants. [46:47] So you're the child of immigrants. [46:48] Correct. [46:49] I'm a child of immigrants. [46:50] I was born here... [46:50] But you don't accept [46:50] that immigrants are Americans? [46:51] Not at this moment. [46:52] So your parents are not Americans? [46:53] Not at this moment. [46:54] No. [46:54] They're citizens. [46:55] They became naturalized. [46:56] You just said you can't be citizens [46:57] by being naturalized. [46:58] No, I was born here [46:59] and I'm not opposed [47:00] to naturalization. [47:01] But are your parents... [47:02] I'm against naturalization. [47:03] Are you against naturalization? [47:04] No, I never said [47:05] I was against naturalization. [47:06] You did. [47:06] You began. [47:06] Everyone was here. [47:07] They can play it back on YouTube. [47:09] You said Americans or immigrants. [47:11] Are your parents [47:11] Americans or immigrants? [47:12] No, my parents [47:13] are United States citizens. [47:15] But they're immigrants, you said. [47:16] No, they came here as immigrants. [47:18] However, but I want to make the claim [47:19] that we can't even... [47:19] I came here as an immigrant. [47:20] I'm an immigrant. [47:21] But at this point [47:22] when they came, [47:22] the United States economy... [47:23] People aren't happy [47:24] with the way this is going for you. [47:25] The United States economy [47:26] was not at... [47:27] It's better now. [47:28] The American economy [47:28] is better than it's been [47:29] for many years. [47:30] Not from the statistics I see. [47:30] And I can say that [47:31] as somebody who doesn't like Donald Trump. [47:32] Which statistics do you see? [47:33] We're giving millions [47:33] and billions of dollars [47:34] to people of minorities [47:36] as well as immigrants. [47:37] The reason the economy [47:38] is doing badly now [47:38] is Donald Trump's tariff policy. [47:40] Nothing to do with migrants. [47:42] In fact, the congressional... [47:43] They can't even start businesses. [47:44] I'm an immigrant. [47:45] I started a business. [47:45] No, I understand [47:46] because the SBA [47:47] is giving people [47:47] billions of loans. [47:48] I didn't take any loans [47:49] from SBA. [47:50] I didn't take any loans [47:50] from SBA. [47:50] I'm not saying you did, [47:51] but I'm saying that statistically speaking [47:53] they're giving billions [47:53] of loans to these people. [47:54] So should we do statistics? [47:55] According to statistics, [47:56] immigrants are 80% more likely [47:57] to be entrepreneurs [47:57] than native-born Americans. [47:58] Sure, absolutely. [47:59] They're more likely [47:59] to start businesses [48:00] and hire Americans. [48:01] No, I'm aware of that. [48:02] Immigrants are more likely [48:02] to pay in taxes [48:03] than take out in benefits. [48:05] They're more likely [48:06] to add to innovation [48:07] and jobs and wages. [48:08] This is what the statistics show. [48:10] The Congressional Budget Office... [48:11] I understand how you understand that. [48:11] Let me just finish off [48:12] when I let you come back in. [48:13] Okay, go ahead. [48:13] The Congressional Budget Office, [48:14] which is bipartisan, [48:15] Republicans and Democrats [48:15] both use it. [48:16] They have said [48:17] that the immigration surge [48:18] that you mentioned [48:19] will lead to an extra [48:20] $9 trillion of GDP [48:22] over the next 10 years. [48:23] That amounts to $65,000 [48:25] per American household. [48:26] That's $65,000 [48:27] for each and every one of you [48:29] holding up a red flag. [48:31] Okay, I understand that. [48:32] All right, pause. [48:32] You've been voted out [48:33] by the majority. [48:33] Please return to your seat. [48:35] Nice to meet you. [48:35] Nice to meet you. [48:36] Thank you. [48:43] Hey, how's it going? [48:44] I'm Eddie. [48:44] What's going on, man? [48:45] Nice to meet you. [48:46] All right, so first, [48:46] before I start, [48:47] I need to know [48:47] what you mean by good. [48:48] I can talk about the economy. [48:49] I can talk about culture. [48:50] I can talk about all those things. [48:51] I need to know what you mean. [48:52] All of them. [48:52] I'm saying immigrants [48:53] are good for the economy. [48:55] They're good for culture. [48:55] Do you think lower wages [48:56] are good for the economy? [48:56] They're good for society. [48:57] Where's the lower wages? [48:58] What do you mean [48:58] where's the lower wages? [48:59] Where's the lower wages? [49:00] What's the basis [49:00] for saying they're lower wages? [49:01] Sure, so you can look [49:02] at the STEM industry. [49:03] It's been in a complete [49:03] and total recession. [49:05] There's been tons of studies [49:06] from the Economic Policy Institute [49:07] that shows that companies [49:08] like Tesla, [49:10] companies from Silicon Valley, [49:11] they engaged in mass firing [49:13] of workers around $35,000, [49:14] but then they hired [49:15] around $12,000 H-1B visas. [49:17] And it's kind of just [49:17] standard economic thinking. [49:19] It's not standard economic thinking. [49:21] The vast majority [49:21] of economists and economic studies [49:22] suggest that there is [49:23] a negligible if no impact [49:25] on wages over time [49:26] for immigrants. [49:27] In fact, your colleague [49:28] mentioned earlier, [49:29] construction, [49:29] there is actually evidence [49:30] in construction, yes. [49:32] But in some industries, [49:33] in some areas, [49:34] there is an impact. [49:35] But overall, no. [49:36] In fact, a study [49:36] from the National Bureau [49:37] of Economic Research [49:38] found that migrants [49:39] since 1965 have raised wages [49:40] and raised innovation. [49:42] National Bureau [49:43] for Economic Research. [49:43] No, hold on. [49:44] That's where you publish studies. [49:45] I'm asking for the author. [49:46] Yes, I didn't memorize [49:46] the names of the authors. [49:46] I know you did, right? [49:47] Can you give me [49:48] the authors you've got? [49:48] Yeah, hold on. [49:49] The study you're talking about [49:50] is from Giovanni Perry. [49:51] And what he did is [49:51] he didn't account [49:52] for aggregation issues, [49:53] nor did he- [49:54] The vast majority of studies. [49:54] Hold on, let me speak. [49:55] Please. [49:56] Yeah, thank you, right? [49:57] So listen, [49:57] he didn't account [49:58] for aggregation issues, right? [49:59] And when you look [50:00] at like the spatial approaches [50:01] with all these economists use, [50:02] you're not accounting [50:03] for the fact that [50:03] when immigrants come [50:04] into an area, [50:05] natives leave. [50:06] If you look at [50:06] an occupational approach [50:07] where you look at [50:08] the specific firms [50:09] that immigration is going into, [50:10] like Kim ETAL 2013 did, [50:13] you find a net negative impact [50:14] when there's a 10% [50:15] increase of immigration. [50:16] You find around [50:16] a 0.5% decline in wages [50:18] when it comes to [50:19] the specific occupations [50:20] they're going to. [50:20] All your studies are flawed. [50:22] So 0.5% weigh that up [50:24] against what I just mentioned [50:25] for the Congressional Budget Office, [50:26] which is a massive boost [50:27] in GDP per head, [50:28] which you're not counting for. [50:29] Massive increase [50:30] in tax revenue. [50:31] Immigrants are actually funding [50:32] funding the deficits [50:33] and debts [50:34] by paying way more in taxes [50:36] proportionately [50:36] into the undocumented immigrants. [50:38] And what's interesting [50:38] about wages is [50:39] I'm in a room full of, [50:40] I don't know what to call you anymore, [50:41] conservatives, [50:42] Republicans, fascists, [50:42] I don't know. [50:43] One of you has proudly said that. [50:45] Correct. [50:45] One of you has proudly. [50:45] Oh yeah, correct. [50:47] I'm in a room full of correct people, [50:49] but do any of you [50:49] actually care about wages? [50:51] Yeah, I actually do. [50:52] For example, [50:52] do you support raising [50:53] the minimum wage? [50:53] Absolutely. [50:54] And you can't do that [50:55] when you're bringing [50:55] all these people coming into [50:56] our country. [50:56] That's not the reason [50:57] the Republican Party [50:58] blocks the minimum wage. [50:59] You think Republican politicians [51:00] don't vote for an increase [51:02] in the minimum wage [51:02] because they're worried [51:03] about immigration. [51:03] Did I say I vote a Republican? [51:04] Did I say I vote a Republican? [51:05] Well, I'm in a show [51:06] that was called [51:07] 25 far-right Republicans. [51:08] That doesn't mean I'm going to [51:09] support every single [51:10] Republican candidate, right? [51:11] Good. [51:11] So you and I, [51:12] you and I, [51:12] let's agree. [51:13] We both support [51:14] raising the minimum wage. [51:15] 100%. [51:15] $7.25 since 2009. [51:17] It's lost 30% of its value. [51:19] If you care about wages, [51:20] we should be raising [51:21] the minimum wage [51:22] in this country, [51:22] not scapegoating migrants [51:23] who aren't the cause [51:24] of low wages in the country. [51:25] You know who's causing low wages? [51:27] Billionaires, millionaires, [51:28] people who won't pay [51:29] fair wages to their wages [51:30] regardless of whether [51:31] you are an immigrant [51:32] or a native-born American. [51:32] I get the monologue, right? [51:33] Now let me respond. [51:34] You had one. [51:34] You had one. [51:35] We did one study [51:36] that had a 0.5% impact. [51:37] Go. [51:37] Yeah, and your study [51:38] sucked that you didn't even [51:39] know who wrote it, right? [51:40] So let's get back [51:40] to the point, right? [51:41] Because I don't need [51:42] to know one study. [51:43] The majority of studies [51:44] say that wages [51:45] are not impacted [51:45] by migration over time. [51:45] The majority of your studies [51:46] are flawed. [51:47] That's what I'm telling you. [51:47] They're not my studies. [51:48] Neither of us are economists. [51:50] It's the economist studies. [51:51] Don't assume who I am. [51:52] Are you an economist? [51:52] I could be. [51:53] But are you? [51:54] I could be. [51:55] Are you? [51:55] I'm not going to tell you. [51:56] Are you? [51:57] I'm going to major [51:58] in economics, right? [51:58] Are you an economist? [52:00] No, not right now. [52:00] Okay, so when I said [52:01] neither of us are economists, [52:01] I was correct. [52:02] Just don't assume. [52:02] To use your favorite word. [52:03] See here, dude, [52:04] this is nothing of substance. [52:05] You look at the red flags. [52:06] They're coming up. [52:07] Let me get to the point. [52:07] That's great. [52:07] So when you talk about the CBO, [52:10] one thing you're not [52:10] accounting for here [52:11] is that they're assuming [52:12] an equilibrium, right? [52:13] Do you know what that means? [52:14] You shouldn't make [52:14] these type of assumptions. [52:15] You said earlier [52:16] that unemployment is like- [52:16] Do I know what it means? [52:17] I thought we were not doing assumptions. [52:18] Okay, hold on. [52:18] You mentioned we were like [52:19] at like 4.2% unemployment. [52:21] Yeah, that's counting people [52:22] who have part-time jobs. [52:23] That's counting poverty wages. [52:24] That's how it's always been counted. [52:25] Yeah. [52:25] I'm against poverty wages. [52:27] Can we agree again? [52:28] Yes. [52:28] If you go to like [52:29] the Lugwood Institute, [52:30] they calculated a way [52:31] where it's like [52:31] functional unemployment, okay? [52:33] If you account for things [52:34] like just people [52:35] who make around $25,000 a year, [52:37] people who have fallen [52:37] out of the labor market, [52:38] people who only work part-time, [52:40] if you put, [52:40] if you count all [52:41] of those people together [52:41] and then add on the unemployment, [52:43] that's around 25% [52:44] of the population. [52:45] So when you go, [52:46] we don't have jobs. [52:47] We don't have people to do this, [52:48] this and that and the other. [52:48] No, yes, we do. [52:50] Okay, we don't have a labor shortage. [52:51] We have a good job shortage. [52:53] And when you keep bringing [52:53] these people in [52:54] and they're taking those jobs. [52:56] The good job shortage [52:57] is the fault of big firms, [52:59] employers. [52:59] I'm an employer. [53:00] I can say that. [53:00] Who hires the immigrants? [53:01] Who hires the immigrants? [53:02] Yeah. [53:03] Employers. [53:03] Exactly. [53:04] So when you bring up [53:05] these big firms, [53:06] that's the way [53:06] that these wages are [53:07] and you understand that, right? [53:08] So let me ask you a question. [53:09] If you got rid of all immigrants [53:11] coming in tomorrow, [53:11] moratorium, [53:12] you think that Republicans [53:14] and employers of big firms [53:17] just suddenly raise [53:18] all the wages. [53:18] You notice how you didn't [53:19] answer what I said? [53:20] That's what you believe. [53:20] That was a complete, [53:21] are your ankles all right? [53:22] You pivoted the hell [53:23] away from the conversation. [53:24] Is that what you believe? [53:24] I'm on the subject. [53:25] Do you believe that wages, [53:27] I'm just wondering [53:27] how naive you are. [53:28] You believe that the 1% [53:29] will raise wages [53:30] and the federal wage [53:31] if we stop immigration. [53:32] They will be forced to. [53:33] When you increase [53:34] labor's relationship [53:35] to capital, okay, [53:36] and you give labor [53:37] more bargaining power [53:38] because you're tightening [53:38] the supply of labor. [53:39] This is a very simplistic [53:39] understanding of economics [53:40] because you're not- [53:40] Okay, explain I'm wrong. [53:41] I'm telling you how you're wrong [53:42] because you're ignoring the fact [53:43] that when immigrants [53:43] come into an area, [53:44] they spend money. [53:46] They create jobs [53:47] through their presence. [53:47] About one-fifth [53:48] of their monthly income [53:49] leaves the country. [53:50] That's a good thing also [53:51] because you don't like [53:51] USA foreign aid. [53:52] So this is the point. [53:53] They create jobs. [53:54] Don't assume that. [53:54] I came into this country. [53:56] So far, [53:56] every one of my assumptions [53:57] about you has been correct. [53:58] But listen to me. [53:59] I am an immigrant. [54:00] I'm speaking for personal experience. [54:00] Get the hell out. [54:01] I don't even like- [54:02] Get the hell out. [54:02] I should get the hell out. [54:03] Yes. [54:04] Why? [54:04] I don't want you here. [54:05] Why? [54:05] Because you come here [54:06] and say all this bullshit [54:07] about how Americans are lazy. [54:08] You push your left-wing politics. [54:09] I never said Americans are lazy. [54:10] I don't know why you say this. [54:11] I never said Americans are lazy. [54:12] Yes, you are. [54:12] You're saying immigrants [54:13] have to come into this country [54:14] so they can do jobs [54:15] that we don't want to do. [54:15] That's exactly what you said. [54:16] When? [54:16] When did I say it? [54:17] Oh, really? [54:17] When did I say it? [54:18] We're on YouTube. [54:19] Guys watching on YouTube, [54:20] rewind to the time [54:21] where I said [54:21] immigrants are doing jobs [54:22] we don't want to do. [54:23] When did I say those words? [54:24] Words that came out of my mouth. [54:24] Okay, so why do we have to bring [54:26] immigrants to the country [54:28] if we have people [54:28] who are going to do the jobs? [54:29] Pause. [54:30] Pause. [54:30] Pause. [54:30] You've been voted out. [54:31] It's nice talking to you. [54:32] Nice talking to you. [54:32] You're going to have to go, bro. [54:33] Nice talking to you. [54:36] You're going to have to go, bro, [54:38] is what he said [54:38] as I left to an American citizen. [54:40] Good to know [54:40] where you stand on immigration. [54:42] It's not about immigration, is it? [54:43] That's what it's not about. [54:44] Hey, how are you doing? [54:51] Nice to meet you. [54:51] Good to see you. [54:52] How are you? [54:52] Not bad. [54:54] So, what type of immigrants [54:56] are we talking about? [54:58] What do you mean? [54:59] Like any immigrants or... [55:01] Immigrants. [55:02] That's why I said immigrants overall. [55:02] Illegal immigrants. [55:04] Undocumented immigrants [55:05] also contribute greatly to the U.S. [55:06] I say undocumented. [55:07] I don't think people are illegal. [55:09] So, let's put it this way. [55:11] I mean, I'm an immigrant too. [55:12] From Iran. [55:13] Okay. [55:13] There isn't even a U.S. [55:14] How do you feel about the fact [55:14] that people here want you out? [55:17] Are you okay with that? [55:18] I'm here to debate you, [55:19] not debate them. [55:20] I mean, you're all on the same side. [55:21] You're part of one group. [55:23] No, I mean, there are conservatives here. [55:24] There are far-right people here. [55:25] There are Republicans here. [55:26] But how do you feel about that guy [55:27] wanting me and you to leave? [55:27] But, you know, let's stick... [55:29] I'm just wondering. [55:30] This is the topic of immigration. [55:31] How do you feel about the guy? [55:32] It's not about my feelings towards them. [55:34] Okay. [55:34] It's about staying on this topic. [55:35] Okay. [55:36] Immigrants are good for America, yeah. [55:37] You and me, we're good for America. [55:40] And the guy over there wants us to leave. [55:42] So, I'm just wondering how you feel about that. [55:43] So, I believe that there has to be [55:45] a strict immigration laws. [55:47] Okay. [55:47] We have to make sure that the people [55:48] that are coming here [55:49] have the good intent [55:50] of the United States in mind. [55:51] That's not my claim, but okay. [55:53] My claim is about [55:54] immigrants are net positive. [55:55] If we just open our borders [55:56] to every single person [55:57] that wants to be here, [55:59] you know, that claims [55:59] that they have economical hardship [56:01] in their country. [56:01] Who's calling for open borders? [56:03] I'm just saying, you know... [56:04] Oh, you're just a straw man. [56:05] So, you're just saying a straw man. [56:07] No, I'm saying that... [56:08] You're wasting time with a straw man. [56:09] No one's calling for open borders. [56:10] I didn't call for open borders. [56:10] I said immigrants who... [56:12] You wasted time trying to cause division [56:14] between me and my friends over here. [56:15] Division? [56:16] He wants you to leave the country. [56:17] That's a pretty big deal. [56:19] I mean, you can ignore it, [56:20] but that's your side, my friend. [56:21] Like I said, you were the one [56:22] that tried to derail this argument. [56:24] Derail? [56:24] By bringing that... [56:26] It's literally core to my argument. [56:27] I'm saying immigrants are good to America. [56:29] People on your side are saying [56:30] we should leave. [56:31] Not me. [56:31] Me and you. [56:32] And I asked you, [56:32] what type of immigrants [56:33] are we talking about? [56:34] Immigrants overall. [56:35] Overall. [56:35] Overall. [56:36] So... [56:37] I mean, we're not going to... [56:37] You want me to get into, like, [56:39] particular communities? [56:40] I'm not playing that game. [56:40] So you believe that people [56:41] that come here [56:42] without any respect... [56:42] Overall, help the society. [56:44] Without any respect to our laws [56:45] and our border, [56:46] you know, [56:47] are going to be good for this country? [56:49] No, of course not. [56:49] So you can't say that [56:51] all immigrants overall. [56:52] I never said all immigrants. [56:53] I said immigrants overall. [56:55] Immigrants overall [56:56] doesn't mean all immigrants. [56:57] Sorry to break that to you. [56:57] All right. [56:58] So we have to make sure [57:00] that the people that are coming here [57:01] have the good intent [57:02] of this country in mind. [57:03] Agreed? [57:04] Yes. [57:04] Irrelevant to my client. [57:05] But when you have [57:06] undocumented immigration going on, [57:07] you can't vet that. [57:08] You can't make sure about that. [57:10] Let me real quick, [57:11] you know, talk about, [57:11] you know, my background. [57:13] There is no American embassy in Iran. [57:15] So in order to come here, [57:17] you have to stay in line [57:18] for four years [57:18] and you have to go through [57:20] some serious vetting procedure [57:21] to get here. [57:23] But I made it. [57:24] And that process has to be in place [57:26] because, I mean, [57:26] you don't want terrorists [57:27] to fill this country. [57:29] I made it too. [57:29] I'm an American citizen. [57:30] I went through lots of vetting. [57:31] I took my test. [57:31] And that's how to be. [57:32] But the guy over there [57:33] wants us to leave. [57:33] But he wants us to leave. [57:35] So people don't really care [57:36] about vetting, do they? [57:37] It's not really about vetting, [57:38] is it, my friend? [57:38] But people should not have the right. [57:39] You're in denial. [57:40] People should not have the right [57:41] to ignore our borders [57:42] and our laws. [57:43] What about those of us [57:44] who don't ignore the borders? [57:45] Should we get to stay? [57:46] Of course. [57:47] But he says we shouldn't. [57:48] Well, I'm not debating him. [57:49] You kind of are [57:51] because you're all together on this. [57:52] No, I'm debating you. [57:53] Okay. [57:53] And I'm pointing out to you [57:54] that your argument is in bad faith [57:56] because these guys [57:57] are actually speaking the truth [57:58] and you're in denial [57:59] about who's on your side. [58:00] He wants you gone. [58:02] I never claim [58:03] that I'm on their side [58:04] or they're on my side. [58:05] I'm here to debate you. [58:06] All right, pause. [58:07] You've been voted out [58:07] by the majority. [58:08] Please return to your seat. [58:09] Nice to meet you. [58:14] Hey, how you doing? [58:15] I'm Eddie. [58:16] Nice to meet you. [58:17] The question is, [58:18] immigration is good [58:19] for America, right? [58:21] Overall. [58:22] If you look at the net positives [58:23] to things like our society, [58:25] our culture, [58:26] our food, [58:27] our economy, [58:28] our general diversity. [58:30] I know the D word [58:30] is a bad word [58:31] in places like this. [58:32] I think immigrants [58:33] have been a net positive. [58:34] I think if you look [58:34] at your everyday lives, [58:35] we all benefit from immigration. [58:37] And what kind of conservatives [58:38] disagree with that? [58:39] The guy who, [58:39] some of the guys [58:41] who told me to leave this place [58:42] and go back to, [58:43] you know, [58:43] I'm not a citizen. [58:44] Do you think all conservatives? [58:45] No. [58:46] Oh, no. [58:46] In fact, [58:46] Ronald Reagan, [58:48] who is a president [58:48] I wasn't a big fan of [58:49] until Donald Trump came along. [58:50] Now people like Reagan [58:51] look good in comparison. [58:52] Reagan said in 1986, [58:53] our country is a nation [58:55] of immigrants. [58:55] Our immigrant heritage [58:56] is our strength. [58:57] He gave an amnesty [58:58] to three million [58:59] undocumented migrants. [59:00] He understood [59:00] the value of immigration. [59:01] So I'm with Reagan. [59:03] Although this guy [59:04] is putting his thumb down there. [59:05] So Reagan's not popular [59:06] in right-wing crowds [59:07] these days. [59:08] Well, he's popular with me. [59:09] Good to hear. [59:09] I'm a deferred action [59:11] of childhood arrivals. [59:12] I'm actually, [59:13] I was an illegal immigrant myself. [59:15] I came here when I was 10. [59:17] I'm what you would call [59:17] a legal alien now. [59:19] I didn't have any, [59:20] any say on my parents, [59:23] you know, choices. [59:24] Yes. [59:25] Do I think that they were [59:26] well-meaning by wanting [59:28] to bring me over [59:29] for a better future? [59:31] Absolutely. [59:32] I believe that. [59:33] Yeah. [59:33] Did they break the law? [59:35] Yes. [59:36] Do I agree with people [59:37] breaking the law? [59:39] Not necessarily. [59:40] Do I think that there's [59:42] ever a situation [59:44] where you can break the law [59:46] for the better [59:47] or the greater good? [59:49] You know, [59:49] immigration is a, [59:51] it's an interesting issue [59:53] because I do agree with you [59:54] that everyone is an immigrant [59:57] in a sense. [59:59] Can you tell me a little bit more [1:00:03] about your journey? [1:00:05] I've been here 10 years. [1:00:06] I'm a proud American citizen. [1:00:07] I'm a dual national. [1:00:08] I'm British. [1:00:08] I'm American. [1:00:09] And I am an immigrant [1:00:11] who's contributing [1:00:11] to this country. [1:00:12] So yes, [1:00:13] I'm very much proud [1:00:14] of America's immigrant heritage. [1:00:16] I'm part of it. [1:00:17] And despite what [1:00:18] one of the other people [1:00:19] said on this show earlier, [1:00:20] yeah, [1:00:21] everyone here, [1:00:21] unless you're Native American, [1:00:22] it's a descendant of immigrants. [1:00:24] Sorry, [1:00:24] you've been voted out. [1:00:25] Please return to your seat. [1:00:26] Thank you, man. [1:00:27] Nice to meet you. [1:00:28] How's it going? [1:00:33] Hey, how's it going? [1:00:34] Actually a fan. [1:00:34] I see you a lot. [1:00:35] I'm Piers Morgan. [1:00:36] Okay. [1:00:36] Thank you for watching. [1:00:37] Yeah. [1:00:37] So my argument, [1:00:39] so is that Americans are what, [1:00:43] like, [1:00:43] what is a nation? [1:00:44] A nation is a geographical location [1:00:45] full of people who have some things in common. [1:00:47] So I think some of the things typically in history [1:00:50] are going to be like race, [1:00:52] religion, [1:00:53] ethnicity, [1:00:54] language. [1:00:56] These are some of the things that we have to have [1:00:58] in common in order to actually have a functioning civilization, [1:01:01] especially in self-government. [1:01:03] I'm not necessarily a giant fan of self-government. [1:01:05] I'm a Catholic nationalist. [1:01:06] I'm not a fascist. [1:01:07] You have to have at least some things in common [1:01:09] in order to actually have a civilization. [1:01:11] And the immigrants, [1:01:12] especially illegal immigrants that come into this country now, [1:01:16] disrespect us. [1:01:17] They hate everything that we believe. [1:01:18] They don't even speak our language. [1:01:19] I watched, [1:01:20] after Trump got elected, [1:01:22] I watched an interview of an illegal alien woman crying [1:01:24] about getting deported. [1:01:26] And the entire interview was in Spanish. [1:01:29] That is a spit in the face. [1:01:31] It's disrespect. [1:01:32] They don't care about us. [1:01:33] They abuse our system. [1:01:33] So you've gone from a teleological argument [1:01:35] into just a bunch of series of wild, [1:01:37] unsubstantiated claims. [1:01:38] Well, I'm asking you, [1:01:39] what is the claim? [1:01:39] I don't accept any of those claims [1:01:41] that they hate everything we stand for. [1:01:43] And I don't accept, [1:01:44] well, [1:01:44] I'm not going to deal with the teleology. [1:01:45] I'm going to deal with the false claims that you made. [1:01:47] Go ahead. [1:01:47] There's no, [1:01:47] what's your basis for saying that all immigrants [1:01:49] or all undocumented immigrants [1:01:51] hate everything we stand for? [1:01:52] It's funny that you said you're a Catholic nationalist. [1:01:54] How did most Catholics get to America? [1:01:55] Irish Catholics, [1:01:56] Italian Catholics, [1:01:57] immigration. [1:01:58] Much of the people coming across the southern border [1:02:00] are Catholics. [1:02:01] Are Catholics. [1:02:02] So it's really funny [1:02:03] that you say you're a Catholic nationalist, [1:02:05] but Catholics came to America via immigration. [1:02:07] Yeah. [1:02:08] So immigration is good for America. [1:02:09] You and I can agree. [1:02:10] Otherwise, [1:02:11] people of your faith wouldn't be here. [1:02:12] No. [1:02:12] We were here on this side of the, [1:02:14] on this side of the world, [1:02:15] in this continent, [1:02:16] from conquest. [1:02:18] We came over here. [1:02:19] But the big surges of numbers, [1:02:20] as you well know, [1:02:21] because you're a smart guy, [1:02:23] Italian, [1:02:24] Irish immigration waves, [1:02:25] Catholic immigration waves. [1:02:26] Are you against those? [1:02:27] I'm not even claiming. [1:02:28] Were you against those? [1:02:28] If you were alive then? [1:02:29] I'm not even claiming that immigration is bad. [1:02:30] Because a lot of people are against those. [1:02:31] I'm not claiming immigration is bad [1:02:32] in all cases at all times. [1:02:33] What is your claim? [1:02:34] My claim is that immigration, [1:02:35] especially now, [1:02:36] and especially for foreign people [1:02:38] that have nothing in common with us, [1:02:40] is a negative thing. [1:02:40] It's funny that you say it's especially now. [1:02:41] It's a negative thing. [1:02:42] I forgot your name. [1:02:43] My apologies. [1:02:43] Brian. [1:02:44] Brian. [1:02:44] Yeah. [1:02:44] How many people? [1:02:45] In every, [1:02:45] in every era, [1:02:46] there has been a Brian who says, [1:02:48] I'm not against immigration, [1:02:49] just immigration now. [1:02:51] Okay. [1:02:51] This is what people said about Italians. [1:02:52] It's what people said about Irish folks. [1:02:54] That's unfortunate. [1:02:54] It's what people said about Russians, [1:02:55] Poles, [1:02:55] and now we're saying about people [1:02:56] coming across the southern border. [1:02:57] Because you're not being, [1:02:59] you're being a little disingenuous [1:03:01] saying I'm only against immigrants now. [1:03:02] This is a trope. [1:03:03] How's that disingenuous? [1:03:03] This is because it's a trope [1:03:04] that's been used by nativists [1:03:05] throughout American history. [1:03:07] And every wave of immigrants [1:03:08] has come in and faced the same hate [1:03:09] and animus and bigotry [1:03:10] and lazy trope. [1:03:11] And every wave of immigration [1:03:12] is ultimately assimilated, [1:03:14] integrated, [1:03:15] benefited the country. [1:03:16] In fact, [1:03:16] assimilation right now, [1:03:17] according to Jacob Victor [1:03:18] from the University of Washington, [1:03:19] assimilation rates based on language [1:03:21] and citizenship [1:03:21] and naturalization [1:03:22] are higher now [1:03:23] than a hundred years ago. [1:03:24] Okay, let me make a statement first. [1:03:26] I think that you [1:03:26] and your own person [1:03:29] are a complete perfect example [1:03:31] of why immigration is negative [1:03:34] and why we shouldn't allow people [1:03:35] who don't have anything [1:03:37] in common with us. [1:03:38] You're pro-abortion, [1:03:38] you're pro-euthanasia, [1:03:39] you're pro- [1:03:40] I'm pro-euthanasia. [1:03:41] Yeah, you went, [1:03:42] I've seen your stuff. [1:03:43] You've defended euthanasia. [1:03:44] I'm pro-euthanasia? [1:03:45] Yeah, on Pierce Morgan. [1:03:47] No, I've never discussed euthanasia [1:03:48] with Pierce Morgan in my life. [1:03:50] Okay, so my point is that [1:03:51] you don't agree [1:03:52] with the founders of this country. [1:03:54] If anyone watching at home, [1:03:55] I'm the only guy here [1:03:56] who actually supports American values, [1:03:57] democracy, free speech, [1:03:59] the Constitution. [1:04:00] I've got folks here [1:04:00] telling me they don't believe in democracy, [1:04:02] but they're nationalists. [1:04:03] Wait, why should we care about that, [1:04:04] by the way? [1:04:05] Isn't that what America stands for? [1:04:06] What does America stand for? [1:04:07] So you hate what America stands for, [1:04:08] not me. [1:04:08] No, I'm not even saying. [1:04:09] And in fact, [1:04:09] all the studies show [1:04:10] that immigrants actually [1:04:11] are more patriotic [1:04:12] than native-born Americans. [1:04:13] The only reason why, [1:04:15] yeah, that's the Mexicans [1:04:16] in L.A. right now [1:04:17] burning it down, [1:04:18] waving Mexican flags. [1:04:19] L.A.'s being burned down? [1:04:20] Please don't send us back [1:04:21] to the country [1:04:22] that we're waving the flag of. [1:04:23] I've been in L.A. for a few days. [1:04:24] I didn't see anything burned down. [1:04:25] Yeah, I know. [1:04:25] The riots have ended. [1:04:27] That's because Trump sent in the military. [1:04:28] But if it's burned down, [1:04:29] where is it all burned down? [1:04:29] I haven't seen it. [1:04:30] I've traveled around all of L.A. [1:04:31] You said L.A. was burned down. [1:04:33] L.A. is 500 square miles. [1:04:34] It's not a figure of speech, actually. [1:04:35] It's another false claim of yours. [1:04:36] I support euthanasia. [1:04:38] L.A.'s burned to the ground. [1:04:40] Immigrants hate what we stand for. [1:04:42] I'm super relaxed. [1:04:43] So you're pro-abortion. [1:04:44] But you're just saying [1:04:44] one false thing after another. [1:04:45] So you're pro-abortion, right? [1:04:47] And I'm standing by my position. [1:04:48] Immigrants are good for him. [1:04:49] You're pro-abortion. [1:04:49] You're an immigrant. [1:04:50] I'm pro-Roe v. Wade. [1:04:51] Personally, I'm not pro-abortion. [1:04:53] If you knew anything about me, [1:04:54] you know that. [1:04:54] Roe v. Wade is... [1:04:55] All right, pause. [1:04:57] You've been voted out. [1:04:59] I was going to say [1:04:59] nice to meet you, Brian, [1:05:00] but I guess not. [1:05:06] You made it. [1:05:08] Great to see you. [1:05:09] My name is Cyrus. [1:05:10] Nice to meet you, Cyrus. [1:05:11] I am also son of two immigrants. [1:05:13] Came in legally. [1:05:14] I'm also Persian descent. [1:05:16] Fantastic. [1:05:16] Born in L.A. [1:05:17] Fantastic. [1:05:17] Tarantales. [1:05:18] Yes, yes. [1:05:20] Well, I am mainly upset [1:05:22] not at the immigrants, [1:05:23] legal or not. [1:05:24] I'm mainly upset at Wall Street. [1:05:26] I'm mainly upset at the elites, [1:05:27] the special interests. [1:05:29] They are the main reason [1:05:30] why we've been having this issue [1:05:31] since 1965. [1:05:33] And I understand... [1:05:34] Most want to do well. [1:05:36] There are a few bad apples, [1:05:37] we can agree. [1:05:37] Okay. [1:05:38] But we want to go after the elites. [1:05:40] They are the main cause [1:05:42] of the problem. [1:05:42] Love it. [1:05:43] And just like healthcare, [1:05:44] trade, everything... [1:05:45] Did you know, Cyrus, [1:05:46] that the top 1% [1:05:48] dodge $163 billion [1:05:50] in taxes every year [1:05:51] while undocumented people [1:05:52] pay $100 billion in tax? [1:05:53] So I know where my anger is against. [1:05:55] There are issues [1:05:56] with our tax system [1:05:57] on the rich, [1:05:58] but in a state like California, [1:06:00] some taxes are too high. [1:06:02] I used to live here, [1:06:02] now I live in Las Vegas. [1:06:04] It's a different debate. [1:06:04] I'm saying immigration [1:06:05] is good for America. [1:06:06] It depends on the taxes. [1:06:06] People like you and me [1:06:07] overall are good for America [1:06:08] is what I'm saying. [1:06:09] Okay, but it depends [1:06:09] on how it's done. [1:06:10] Yes. [1:06:10] It depends on how it's done. [1:06:11] And how it's been done [1:06:12] to the U.S. [1:06:12] So I'm not blaming [1:06:13] the housing crisis [1:06:14] on immigrants, [1:06:15] not on wages, [1:06:17] but in a state like California [1:06:19] that doesn't build enough homes [1:06:20] and they're bringing immigrants in, [1:06:22] you have to increase [1:06:23] supply of housing. [1:06:24] I agree. [1:06:25] Okay. [1:06:25] I agree. [1:06:25] But this is where our anger is at, [1:06:27] is at the political class. [1:06:28] I agree. [1:06:29] The Democrat Party [1:06:30] used to have a different stance [1:06:31] on immigration 15 years ago. [1:06:33] Bernie Sanders, [1:06:34] Hillary Clinton. [1:06:35] I'm not a fan of that. [1:06:35] I'm not here to defend [1:06:36] different Democrats. [1:06:37] What I will say is that [1:06:37] Well, that's our anger. [1:06:38] What I will say is that [1:06:39] everyone here actually does [1:06:40] think immigration is good for America. [1:06:42] Everyone here uses an iPhone [1:06:43] designed by an immigrant, [1:06:44] is on Gmail, [1:06:45] designed by an immigrant, [1:06:47] is on a YouTube show. [1:06:49] You guys all came to a YouTube show [1:06:51] founded by an immigrant. [1:06:52] You wouldn't be here [1:06:53] Fair point, [1:06:53] but that's a tiny minority though. [1:06:54] So you all love immigrants [1:06:55] whether you like it or not. [1:06:56] Okay, but it's a taboo subject. [1:06:58] Should we be concerned [1:06:59] about the demographics? [1:07:01] So, Anglo-Saxon, [1:07:02] European-Americans, [1:07:03] 0% of America, [1:07:04] it doesn't matter. [1:07:05] Are they 0% of America? [1:07:06] Well, let's say if it becomes 0%. [1:07:08] It should not worry. [1:07:08] They're not going to. [1:07:09] Why are you bringing weird hypotheticals? [1:07:10] But there has to. [1:07:12] I mean, [1:07:12] they're still part of our country. [1:07:13] There's culture. [1:07:14] There's, I mean, [1:07:15] even Britain, like, [1:07:16] it concerns me. [1:07:17] I mean, America's gone through many [1:07:17] demographic ways, right? [1:07:18] But it concerns me [1:07:19] when Britain is changing [1:07:21] and it's, you know, [1:07:23] it's like they're losing their culture. [1:07:25] But it's losing their culture. [1:07:26] Are they? [1:07:27] Are they going to try to? [1:07:27] I'm from the UK. [1:07:28] I'm telling you, [1:07:29] no one's losing their culture in the UK. [1:07:30] London is going to be [1:07:30] very little British in one day. [1:07:32] Who says so? [1:07:33] What's the plan? [1:07:33] That's what we want to know. [1:07:34] What's the plan? [1:07:34] You just made that up. [1:07:36] Have you been to London? [1:07:36] But how do we know? [1:07:37] Cyrus, have you been to London? [1:07:38] No. [1:07:38] So then maybe you shouldn't come [1:07:39] on places you don't know anything about. [1:07:40] But what's the plan? [1:07:41] I grew up in London. [1:07:42] What's the general plan? [1:07:42] London's a very British city. [1:07:43] I was in London a few weeks ago. [1:07:44] It's a very British city. [1:07:45] I hope not. [1:07:46] I understand that there are people [1:07:47] in this audience [1:07:48] that don't like me [1:07:49] or you in this country. [1:07:50] And I respect that. [1:07:52] There's some that don't even want me [1:07:53] to date a blonde woman. [1:07:54] They want to keep to their own [1:07:55] or Ginger or whatever. [1:07:57] I respect that. [1:07:58] But there has to be a deal made. [1:08:00] There's Idaho. [1:08:01] There's Montana. [1:08:02] They can go live [1:08:02] in a homogeneous society. [1:08:04] I don't believe in force. [1:08:06] Okay. [1:08:06] And I believe that there has [1:08:08] to be a deal made. [1:08:08] And I think there's upsides [1:08:10] and downsides to diversity. [1:08:11] There is a deal made. [1:08:12] People have elections. [1:08:13] They vote for elections. [1:08:14] Right now, [1:08:15] there's Donald Trump [1:08:15] in the White House. [1:08:16] Not someone I support, [1:08:17] but people voted for him. [1:08:18] Why did he get in mainly? [1:08:19] Because we had 2016. [1:08:21] I'm not sure we have time [1:08:21] to get into that. [1:08:22] 2016, Bernie Sanders. [1:08:23] Okay. [1:08:24] Part of the reason he got in [1:08:25] is that people in this room [1:08:26] want people like me and you to leave [1:08:27] and they voted for him [1:08:28] to try and make that happen. [1:08:28] I'm not surprised. [1:08:29] One of the Charlottesville marchers [1:08:31] doesn't like me. [1:08:32] And I've met those people. [1:08:33] And I respect their views. [1:08:35] You really shouldn't. [1:08:36] Well, they're wants. [1:08:37] Don't respect racists and fascists [1:08:38] is my advice to you. [1:08:39] Well, they have their preferences. [1:08:41] You know, that's just... [1:08:42] We can't change that. [1:08:43] Actually, we can. [1:08:44] That's why I tried to come in today. [1:08:45] But anyways... [1:08:46] All right. [1:08:47] That's time. [1:08:48] Please return to your seat. [1:08:49] Thank you. [1:08:50] Nice to meet you, Sarah. [1:08:51] Great pleasure. [1:08:51] Good. [1:08:54] My final claim [1:08:55] is that Donald Trump's plan [1:08:57] for Gaza is ethnic cleansing. [1:09:03] Hey, how are you? [1:09:04] I'm Sarah. [1:09:04] Nice to meet you. [1:09:04] Nice to meet you. [1:09:05] You too. [1:09:06] So why do you say [1:09:07] this is Donald Trump's plan? [1:09:09] Why do you think that? [1:09:09] I mean, he says it's his plan. [1:09:11] Have you seen his plan? [1:09:11] When did he say it? [1:09:13] He said it standing next [1:09:14] to Benjamin Netanyahu [1:09:15] in January or February. [1:09:16] He said it on Fox News [1:09:17] in an interview. [1:09:18] On Fox. [1:09:19] He said it on Air Force One [1:09:20] when he was chatting to reporters. [1:09:21] Like, word for word. [1:09:22] What's an example [1:09:23] of what he said? [1:09:23] Word for word. [1:09:24] He said, for example, [1:09:25] we're going to clean out [1:09:26] the Gaza Strip. [1:09:27] He said, they're going to leave. [1:09:27] We're going to take control of it. [1:09:29] He says, we'll own it. [1:09:30] I would own it. [1:09:31] He says, I'm not sure [1:09:32] under international law [1:09:32] how he can own [1:09:33] a foreign piece of land. [1:09:35] And when he was asked [1:09:35] on Fox News, [1:09:37] the people, the Palestinians [1:09:38] who are being forced to leave, [1:09:39] would they be able to come back? [1:09:40] He said, no, they wouldn't. [1:09:42] That is the literal definition [1:09:43] of ethnic cleansing [1:09:44] according to a UN definition [1:09:46] of ethnic cleansing. [1:09:46] Donald Trump is saying this. [1:09:47] Do you think that he has [1:09:48] some personal interest [1:09:50] in cleansing Gaza? [1:09:51] Or do you think [1:09:51] there might be [1:09:51] some special interest group [1:09:53] or perhaps religious [1:09:54] or ethnic group [1:09:54] that maybe he received [1:09:56] money from them [1:09:57] and that's the whole reason [1:09:58] why he wants to cleanse Gaza? [1:10:00] Why do you think that is? [1:10:01] I don't do Donald Trump's motivations. [1:10:03] I really don't care. [1:10:04] My claim is that what he's doing [1:10:05] is ethnic cleansing. [1:10:06] Do you agree with that? [1:10:07] I would actually, yeah, [1:10:08] probably agree. [1:10:09] You agree that it's ethnic cleansing [1:10:10] or you agree with doing [1:10:11] ethnic cleansing? [1:10:12] I don't agree with it [1:10:12] but I agree that's probably his plan [1:10:14] but I'm trying to figure out [1:10:15] like why do you think that is? [1:10:16] Because Donald Trump's a white man. [1:10:18] He identifies as Christian. [1:10:19] I'm not sure if he really is. [1:10:20] But what interest does he have [1:10:22] in preserving a Jewish ethno state? [1:10:24] Why would he have that? [1:10:25] It's a good question. [1:10:26] You'd have to ask Donald Trump [1:10:27] that question. [1:10:27] I've got multiple views. [1:10:29] I'm sure you have many views. [1:10:30] I'm not sure I like [1:10:31] where you're going with your views. [1:10:32] But I think Donald Trump [1:10:34] is definitely someone [1:10:35] who's got financial interests [1:10:36] in ethnic cleansing. [1:10:37] He's got political interests. [1:10:38] He loves the evangelical voters he get. [1:10:40] A lot of Christian evangelicals [1:10:41] like to support Israel [1:10:42] because they think Jesus will come back [1:10:43] if all the Jews are gathered [1:10:44] in one place with no Palestinians. [1:10:46] I think he's going to make money [1:10:47] he thinks from beachfront property [1:10:48] with Jared Kushner. [1:10:50] He said something similar in the past. [1:10:51] You think that's the real reason? [1:10:52] I think there's multiple reasons. [1:10:53] Yeah. [1:10:53] I think financial, geopolitical, [1:10:55] ideological, evangelical. [1:10:57] I don't even care. [1:10:57] My claim is that [1:10:58] what he's doing is ethnic cleansing. [1:11:00] Ethnic cleansing is a war crime [1:11:01] according to the 4th Geneva Convention. [1:11:02] Yeah, I agree. [1:11:02] It's against international law [1:11:04] under the Rome Statute. [1:11:05] So we shouldn't be part of that. [1:11:06] The United States should not be [1:11:07] supporting Donald Trump's plan [1:11:08] for ethnic cleansing. [1:11:09] I agree. [1:11:09] Good. [1:11:09] What do you think should be done [1:11:11] instead with the Israel-Gaza situation? [1:11:14] I'm not sure what your stance is on this. [1:11:15] I would like to see a ceasefire in Gaza. [1:11:17] Ceasefire, two-state solution type thing. [1:11:19] I don't really get into debates [1:11:20] about what solutions. [1:11:21] I would like to see an end to the killing. [1:11:22] I would like to see Gazans have freedom. [1:11:24] I would like to see the Palestinians in Gaza [1:11:26] somehow get their land back. [1:11:28] 80% of Gaza right now [1:11:29] is under Israeli military control [1:11:31] or displacement. [1:11:32] I would like to see freedom [1:11:33] for the Palestinian people. [1:11:35] I'm an American. [1:11:35] To go back to the core of this show, [1:11:37] I support American values. [1:11:38] One person, one vote. [1:11:39] Free speech. [1:11:39] It really is a religious and ethnic battle. [1:11:42] It is not a religious battle. [1:11:43] Well, yes. [1:11:44] No, it's not. [1:11:44] That is what it is. [1:11:44] It's obviously between Jews and Muslims. [1:11:46] Both want control of the Holy Land. [1:11:47] No, it's not. [1:11:48] Yes, it is. [1:11:48] No, it's not. [1:11:49] What else? [1:11:49] What other... [1:11:50] Actually, the founders of Israel were secular. [1:11:51] They were not religious, actually. [1:11:52] I think some religious Jews, [1:11:54] like Bezalus Smotrich, [1:11:55] who's an Israeli government minister, [1:11:56] it doesn't really matter. [1:11:57] Is a religious fanatic. [1:11:58] My point is... [1:11:59] My point is... [1:11:59] No, no, the core of the conflict [1:12:00] is over land. [1:12:01] It's colonial. [1:12:03] It's historic. [1:12:04] It is not about religion. [1:12:05] Well, yeah, but colonialism [1:12:06] is for a reason. [1:12:07] The people who want to steal the land [1:12:08] want everyone to believe it's religious. [1:12:09] My point is, [1:12:09] why are we sitting here... [1:12:10] I don't have any objections to Christians. [1:12:11] It's like a false dichotomy [1:12:13] where we have to argue, [1:12:14] like, do Jews get Israel? [1:12:16] Do Muslims get Israel? [1:12:17] Why are we... [1:12:18] I've never brought up anyone's religion. [1:12:19] I didn't bring up anyone's religion. [1:12:21] How many of us here are Christians... [1:12:22] I didn't bring up anyone's religion. [1:12:23] ...trying to pick sides [1:12:24] between Jews and Muslims [1:12:25] taking over Israel? [1:12:26] Like, don't you think that... [1:12:27] Hold on. [1:12:27] First of all, [1:12:28] I didn't bring up religion. [1:12:29] Second of all, [1:12:29] you know that a lot of Palestinians [1:12:30] are Christian, right? [1:12:31] Some of them. [1:12:32] You're just reducing it [1:12:32] to Muslim versus Jew. [1:12:33] Well, it's majority Muslim, yeah. [1:12:35] It's very small versus Jew. [1:12:35] But there are many [1:12:36] prominent Palestinian Christians. [1:12:36] Yeah, I agree. [1:12:37] Yeah, but there's not that many of them. [1:12:38] So it's not worth [1:12:38] reducing everything to religion. [1:12:39] Well, it is... [1:12:40] The reason... [1:12:40] Why do you think Iran [1:12:41] is backing proxies [1:12:43] that want to take over Gaza [1:12:44] and, you know, [1:12:44] back the terrorism of Gaza? [1:12:46] It's obviously because [1:12:47] they want to... [1:12:49] Muslim control of the land. [1:12:51] You don't think that's why? [1:12:52] No, I don't think [1:12:52] it's about religion. [1:12:54] I've been following [1:12:54] this conflict for decades. [1:12:55] It's not about religion. [1:12:56] People who say [1:12:56] it's about religion, [1:12:57] it's a distraction. [1:12:58] Well, it's a big part of it, [1:13:00] I think. [1:13:01] I think it's become [1:13:01] a big part of it. [1:13:02] It's been weaponized [1:13:03] by bad faith actors, sure. [1:13:05] But I don't think [1:13:05] that's the core. [1:13:06] The core is that [1:13:06] one group of people [1:13:08] are dominating [1:13:08] another group of people. [1:13:09] It is apartheid. [1:13:10] But what group of people [1:13:11] is dominating [1:13:12] another group of people? [1:13:13] One ethnic group [1:13:14] is dominating [1:13:14] another ethnic group. [1:13:15] What ethnic group? [1:13:16] Jewish people. [1:13:16] Yes, dominating. [1:13:18] Arabs. [1:13:18] Yes. [1:13:19] But I didn't say anything [1:13:19] about Christian, Muslim, Jew [1:13:20] in a religious sense. [1:13:22] Jews define it as [1:13:23] religion and ethnicity. [1:13:23] You know that, right? [1:13:24] Well, why do you think [1:13:25] that Muslims want control [1:13:26] of the Holy Land? [1:13:27] You keep saying Muslims. [1:13:28] I didn't bring up Muslims. [1:13:29] Well, they're Muslim states. [1:13:30] What do you think [1:13:30] Iran wants to do [1:13:32] with the Holy Land? [1:13:32] I didn't bring up Iran. [1:13:33] But that's part [1:13:34] of the conversation. [1:13:35] What do you mean? [1:13:35] No, it's not. [1:13:36] The conversation is [1:13:36] Donald Trump is doing [1:13:37] ethnic cleansing [1:13:37] and you agree with me. [1:13:38] So I'm not sure [1:13:39] why you're still here, [1:13:39] to be honest. [1:13:40] It's part of the larger [1:13:41] context of the conversation. [1:13:41] It's a weird debate [1:13:41] when you actually agree with me. [1:13:43] What I was trying to say [1:13:44] is we kind of have [1:13:44] this false dichotomy here [1:13:45] where we're trying to take [1:13:46] the side of the Gazans, [1:13:48] which mostly it's [1:13:49] a Muslim majority [1:13:50] or the side of the Jews [1:13:52] to try to decide [1:13:54] who gets control [1:13:55] over Israel. [1:13:56] I didn't say anything [1:13:56] about control. [1:13:57] I said don't ethnically cleanse. [1:13:57] America is a majority [1:13:58] Christian country. [1:13:59] Shouldn't we be deciding [1:14:00] Christians should have [1:14:01] control of the Holy Land? [1:14:02] I agree. [1:14:02] Donald Trump should not, [1:14:03] nothing to do with religion. [1:14:05] Donald Trump should not [1:14:05] be deciding [1:14:06] what happens to Gaza. [1:14:07] That's my claim. [1:14:08] If you agree with me, [1:14:09] great, let's shake hands. [1:14:10] Give the seat to someone [1:14:11] who disagrees with me. [1:14:11] So are you saying [1:14:12] do you think that America [1:14:13] should just cut ties [1:14:14] with Israel altogether? [1:14:15] What's your definition [1:14:15] of cut ties? [1:14:16] Like stop funding them? [1:14:17] Stop being their military arm? [1:14:18] Yes, I'm on record saying that. [1:14:20] That was an easier debate. [1:14:27] Whoa. [1:14:28] Welcome back, Richie. [1:14:29] You really want to be here. [1:14:30] First of all, [1:14:31] I really thought that [1:14:33] obviously where we started, [1:14:35] where it ended up, [1:14:36] there's a lot of aggression. [1:14:37] I can see in your eyes [1:14:38] there's a level of exhaustion [1:14:39] from being here. [1:14:41] This is where my empathy comes in. [1:14:43] Where it doesn't is [1:14:44] when you have a room [1:14:46] full of people [1:14:46] that do agree with you, [1:14:47] we have this opportunity [1:14:48] to come together [1:14:49] and you're kind of [1:14:50] mocking people when they do. [1:14:51] So you've mocked Sarah [1:14:52] a little bit [1:14:52] when you guys clearly [1:14:53] had a common interest [1:14:54] and goal to reach. [1:14:55] So I can tell you're agitated. [1:14:57] I want to bring that all down. [1:14:58] Please. [1:14:59] I'm guessing you're not going to, [1:15:00] but let's see. [1:15:00] No, no, I'm going to. [1:15:02] I do want to point out [1:15:02] some contradictions. [1:15:03] First and foremost, [1:15:04] I don't believe you're pro-American [1:15:05] in the value system [1:15:06] that you claim to uphold, [1:15:08] especially with free speech, [1:15:09] if you're not willing [1:15:09] to debate people [1:15:10] that don't share your values. [1:15:12] That's very un-American. [1:15:13] Do you believe Donald Trump's plan [1:15:14] for Gaza is ethnic cleansing? [1:15:16] I don't believe [1:15:17] it's ethnic cleansing. [1:15:18] Why not? [1:15:19] Because it's not his plan. [1:15:20] It is his plan. [1:15:21] He said it's my plan. [1:15:21] No, he's obeying [1:15:22] someone else's plan. [1:15:25] Okay. [1:15:25] Who is he obeying? [1:15:26] He is obeying Israel's plan [1:15:29] for the Greater Israel Project, [1:15:31] of which this is one of those things [1:15:32] that we can agree on. [1:15:33] Why is he doing that? [1:15:34] Why is he doing that? [1:15:35] I don't know. [1:15:36] Maybe they have something on him. [1:15:37] Maybe they have something [1:15:38] on all Americans. [1:15:38] But you think it's a bad thing [1:15:39] what he's doing? [1:15:39] Absolutely. [1:15:40] Okay. [1:15:41] Glad to agree with you. [1:15:42] I don't want to shut down [1:15:43] the conversation. [1:15:43] I'm not mocking you. [1:15:43] I'm agreeing with you. [1:15:44] Okay, perfect. [1:15:45] But I want to take this opportunity [1:15:47] because I don't know [1:15:48] if I'm going to get [1:15:48] the opportunity again [1:15:49] to say you're not American. [1:15:51] First and foremost. [1:15:53] Remember when I said [1:15:53] the agitation from you [1:15:55] is not going to be lower? [1:15:55] What I'm saying, though. [1:15:56] You came to lower the temperature [1:15:57] and then make racist remarks. [1:15:59] You know that's a racist remark. [1:15:59] It's not racist. [1:16:00] You tell an American citizen. [1:16:02] Okay, perfect. [1:16:03] Perfect. [1:16:03] You just proved your own point. [1:16:04] What? [1:16:04] You just said [1:16:05] that was a racist position. [1:16:07] Earlier, [1:16:07] you argued this contention [1:16:09] that America has no race. [1:16:10] It's a bunch of immigrants [1:16:11] that culminate together. [1:16:12] America has no race. [1:16:13] You inferred it. [1:16:15] You absolutely did. [1:16:16] Okay. [1:16:16] So now you're saying [1:16:17] it's racist for me [1:16:18] to take an American [1:16:19] nationalist approach. [1:16:20] What is an American [1:16:20] national approach? [1:16:21] Is that a white approach? [1:16:22] I think it's a white [1:16:24] nativist approach. [1:16:25] Of course. [1:16:25] Only Americans are white people. [1:16:26] Why did your parents [1:16:27] immigrate from India? [1:16:27] Americans are only white people. [1:16:28] Why did your parents [1:16:29] immigrate from India to the UK? [1:16:30] Because the UK [1:16:31] colonized and conquered India. [1:16:32] Okay. [1:16:33] Why did you immigrate [1:16:33] to America? [1:16:34] Because many reasons. [1:16:36] Okay. [1:16:36] All opportunity. [1:16:37] There's opportunity. [1:16:38] That's not true. [1:16:39] You don't know. [1:16:39] The accent. [1:16:40] Your accent [1:16:41] is an affleck [1:16:42] of white Anglo-Saxon. [1:16:44] But you know [1:16:45] there are 50 million Americans [1:16:46] in this country [1:16:46] who are immigrants. [1:16:46] I understand. [1:16:48] None of them are Americans [1:16:48] in your view. [1:16:49] What I'm trying to get you to do [1:16:50] to reach a common ground here. [1:16:52] We're not going to reach [1:16:52] a common ground [1:16:53] because you said [1:16:53] I'm not American. [1:16:54] Please try. [1:16:55] I don't think you're American. [1:16:55] I'm saying you're not [1:16:57] I don't think you're American. [1:16:57] I'm saying you're not [1:16:58] American due to values. [1:16:59] I don't think you're not [1:17:00] American on values either. [1:17:01] I think you're a little [1:17:02] fascist-y, [1:17:02] a little racist-y. [1:17:03] See you're using these words. [1:17:05] Okay first of all [1:17:05] I want to say this. [1:17:06] I'm not just throwing them at you. [1:17:07] You didn't come sit down [1:17:08] and I said it. [1:17:09] For every conservative [1:17:09] that has ever been [1:17:11] shut down by leftists like you. [1:17:12] For every conservative. [1:17:14] You're not a conservative. [1:17:15] You've already said that. [1:17:15] For every right wing. [1:17:16] You've already said [1:17:17] you're not a conservative. [1:17:17] For every Stefan Mollinu, [1:17:20] Thomas Sowell, [1:17:21] Nick Fuentes, [1:17:21] all of those people. [1:17:23] Is Thomas Sowell American? [1:17:24] He's Australian. [1:17:25] But that's not the point. [1:17:26] I'm saying people [1:17:27] that are on our side of the aisle [1:17:28] that get shut down [1:17:29] by people like you [1:17:30] because you're leveraging [1:17:30] this position of emotion. [1:17:32] You're joking, right? [1:17:32] No, I'm not. [1:17:33] You're leveraging [1:17:33] the position of emotion. [1:17:35] My side of the aisle [1:17:35] is trying to deport you. [1:17:37] The only shutting down [1:17:38] is being done by you. [1:17:39] They're actually trying [1:17:39] to genocide my entire race. [1:17:41] What are you talking about? [1:17:43] What are you talking about? [1:17:44] You're a white genocide guy? [1:17:46] Are you kidding me? [1:17:48] I'm amazed [1:17:49] that Jubilee find [1:17:50] some of you guys. [1:17:51] How did they find you? [1:17:52] Did they email you? [1:17:53] Why are you trying to oust me? [1:17:55] This is such a cheap tactic. [1:17:56] Do you go to Nordstrom? [1:17:57] All immigrants. [1:17:58] Have you ever been on eBay? [1:17:59] Immigrants. [1:17:59] You love immigrants. [1:18:00] No, I'm agreeing. [1:18:01] You love immigrants [1:18:02] when they're helping you. [1:18:02] You just don't like [1:18:03] the color of my skin. [1:18:04] We're having a different conversation. [1:18:05] It's a white genocide. [1:18:06] We're having a different conversation. [1:18:08] All right, you've been voted out. [1:18:09] Please return to your seat. [1:18:10] Okay. [1:18:11] I really wish we could have asked. [1:18:12] I mean, you believe in white genocide, [1:18:14] so it's very hard to... [1:18:15] Hey, how's it going? [1:18:23] Nice to meet you. [1:18:24] Hello. [1:18:24] So I'll switch over [1:18:25] to the Gaza thing in a second, [1:18:27] but first off, [1:18:27] I just wanted to touch on that. [1:18:29] You said that you support [1:18:29] free speech, of course, right? [1:18:31] So what I'm confused about [1:18:33] is you've refused to debate people [1:18:34] that I've disagreed with you [1:18:35] because you said that they're racist [1:18:36] or they're racist, right? [1:18:37] No, no, no, no, no. [1:18:38] If we're going to do facts, [1:18:39] they said they were racist and fascist. [1:18:40] Get your facts right [1:18:41] before you start arguing. [1:18:42] So isn't the whole entire point [1:18:43] of the debate [1:18:43] to debate people [1:18:44] that you don't agree with? [1:18:44] I don't debate people [1:18:45] who don't see me, [1:18:46] A, as equal. [1:18:48] No point. [1:18:48] Or B, support democracy [1:18:50] because that would undermine [1:18:51] the whole idea of the debate. [1:18:52] If you don't support democracy [1:18:53] as our friend here doesn't [1:18:54] and support General Franco, [1:18:56] then what is the point of a debate? [1:18:57] The First Amendment [1:18:58] doesn't mean [1:18:58] you have to debate everyone. [1:18:59] Somebody comes up to you in the street [1:19:00] and starts talking to you. [1:19:01] You don't have an obligation [1:19:02] to carry on talking to them. [1:19:03] I'm sure you go about your business. [1:19:04] Somebody comes up to you [1:19:05] in the subway [1:19:05] and sits next to you [1:19:06] and starts ranting in your face. [1:19:07] You're not going to start debating them. [1:19:08] So everyone here [1:19:09] has hygiene standards, [1:19:10] as do you. [1:19:11] There are people you wouldn't debate, [1:19:12] I'm sure, as well. [1:19:13] Okay. [1:19:13] So can you please describe [1:19:15] why you think Trump [1:19:16] is supporting ethnic cleansing [1:19:19] of Gaza [1:19:19] just because he wants to [1:19:20] take over the land there? [1:19:21] How does that... [1:19:22] And not just take over the land. [1:19:24] Kick out all the people. [1:19:25] That is the definition [1:19:25] of ethnic cleansing. [1:19:26] So isn't ethnic cleansing [1:19:27] killing people? [1:19:28] Because it seems like you're... [1:19:29] No, you can ethnic cleanse [1:19:30] people without killing them. [1:19:31] And by the way, [1:19:31] they have been killed. [1:19:32] More than 50,000 people in Gaza [1:19:33] have been killed [1:19:34] by the Israelis, [1:19:35] by people like [1:19:36] Bezalus Smotrich [1:19:36] who said recently, [1:19:37] the finance minister of Israel, [1:19:39] we are going to Gaza [1:19:39] to conquer, [1:19:41] cleanse, [1:19:41] and remain. [1:19:42] We are going to annihilate the place. [1:19:44] We are going to disassemble Gaza, [1:19:45] he said. [1:19:45] We're going to leave it behind [1:19:46] as piles of rubble. [1:19:47] That's the guy Trump's funding, [1:19:49] supporting. [1:19:49] That's the guy praising Trump. [1:19:50] So yes, [1:19:51] Trump and Smotrich [1:19:52] are ethnically cleansing Gaza. [1:19:53] I cannot deny [1:19:53] that thousands of people [1:19:55] are dying in Gaza, [1:19:56] but you need to realize [1:19:56] why are they dying? [1:19:57] Is it possibly that [1:19:58] they're attacking another country? [1:19:59] No. [1:19:59] Just because Israel [1:20:01] is killing more Gazans [1:20:02] than Gazans are killing Israel [1:20:03] doesn't mean Gaza is righteous [1:20:04] and Israel is evil. [1:20:05] I never said anything [1:20:06] about evil or righteous. [1:20:07] I said ethnic cleansing. [1:20:09] You said, [1:20:09] don't they have to be killed? [1:20:10] I said they are being killed [1:20:11] and the criteria [1:20:12] for what's happening to them. [1:20:13] If Donald Trump says [1:20:14] these people have to leave [1:20:15] and never come back, [1:20:15] is that not ethnic cleansing? [1:20:16] What is your definition [1:20:17] of ethnic cleansing? [1:20:18] I would think ethnic cleansing [1:20:19] is when you're killing off [1:20:20] a large part of an ethnic group. [1:20:21] That's genocide. [1:20:22] You're confusing your terms. [1:20:23] Ethnic cleansing is removing [1:20:25] one ethnic group [1:20:25] using a deliberate policy [1:20:27] by violence or terror-inspiring [1:20:29] means to remove [1:20:29] another population, [1:20:30] another ethnic group [1:20:31] from a certain geographic area. [1:20:32] That's the UN definition [1:20:33] of ethnic cleansing. [1:20:34] That is what he's doing. [1:20:35] When he was asked Donald Trump [1:20:36] can they come back? [1:20:36] He said, no, they cannot. [1:20:39] That is that thing. [1:20:39] I've heard all these [1:20:40] people talk about [1:20:41] white genocide today. [1:20:42] You guys are nationalists. [1:20:43] How would you feel [1:20:44] if somebody came, [1:20:45] a president of France [1:20:46] came and told you [1:20:47] to leave your land [1:20:47] and not come back, [1:20:48] would you not feel [1:20:48] you'd been ethnically cleansed [1:20:49] from your home? [1:20:50] From America? [1:20:51] Yeah. [1:20:52] Well, because my ancestors [1:20:53] were settlers here, [1:20:54] not immigrants. [1:20:55] They actually built something. [1:20:56] Palestinians are not immigrants [1:20:56] in Gaza. [1:20:57] They are indigenous people [1:20:59] to the land. [1:20:59] Didn't Israel just give [1:21:00] Gaza the land [1:21:01] like a few decades ago? [1:21:02] No. [1:21:03] I'm pretty sure Israel [1:21:04] used to have that land [1:21:04] in the 1990s. [1:21:04] I'm pretty sure you're wrong. [1:21:05] They withdrew from 2005 [1:21:07] from the land [1:21:08] but controlled the air. [1:21:09] Yeah, and they gave it to them [1:21:09] in 2005. [1:21:09] No, they don't give it to them. [1:21:11] They controlled the air, [1:21:12] the sea space, [1:21:13] the borders, [1:21:14] the population registry. [1:21:15] They controlled [1:21:16] what went in and out. [1:21:17] It was a prison, [1:21:17] an open-air prison. [1:21:18] That's not giving them freedom. [1:21:19] But don't they have a border [1:21:20] with Egypt and then [1:21:20] the Mediterranean Sea? [1:21:21] Yes, and the Israelis [1:21:21] and Egyptians work together [1:21:23] because Donald Trump [1:21:24] and Joe Biden [1:21:25] and Barack Obama. [1:21:26] Yes, they're funded [1:21:27] by the United States. [1:21:28] Did you know that [1:21:28] Muslim countries [1:21:29] do bad things too? [1:21:30] No, I know that [1:21:30] they do bad things. [1:21:31] Okay, then. [1:21:32] So we're in agreement. [1:21:32] All right, pause. [1:21:33] You've been voted out. [1:21:34] Who's returned to your seat? [1:21:35] Nice to be here. [1:21:40] No one. [1:21:41] Great. [1:21:41] Hello, sir. [1:21:42] Welcome back. [1:21:42] See you again, Mehdi. [1:21:44] All right, so I agree [1:21:45] that Trump wants to do [1:21:46] a cleansing [1:21:47] but not an ethnic one [1:21:49] because that area [1:21:50] requires a lot of cleansing [1:21:51] because when you have [1:21:53] a population that was taught [1:21:54] from early childhood age [1:21:55] to hate Jews, [1:21:57] Christians and pagans, [1:21:58] you need some serious [1:21:59] re-education. [1:22:00] Number one, that's not true [1:22:01] and number two, [1:22:01] that's not what he's proposing. [1:22:02] Well, I mean, [1:22:03] most Palestinians [1:22:04] by a polling number [1:22:05] do support Hamas. [1:22:07] They support resisting Israel. [1:22:09] Well, I mean, [1:22:09] the thing is, you know, [1:22:11] what did they do [1:22:12] in the first place [1:22:12] that they're in this, [1:22:14] what you call, [1:22:15] open-air prison? [1:22:16] Great question. [1:22:17] What did they do [1:22:17] to deserve being occupied? [1:22:18] Well, here's the thing [1:22:19] because the Islamic Republic [1:22:20] in Iran [1:22:21] is using them [1:22:22] as a tool. [1:22:23] What has Iran got to do with this? [1:22:25] As a tool [1:22:25] for their Islamic expansion. [1:22:27] When did the Islamic... [1:22:28] Because they don't... [1:22:28] Hold on, hold on. [1:22:28] When did the Islamic Republic of Iran... [1:22:30] You're Iranian-American, [1:22:31] I believe. [1:22:32] Yes, I am. [1:22:32] When was the Islamic Republic [1:22:33] of Iran founded? [1:22:34] 1979. [1:22:35] When was Gaza occupied by Israel? [1:22:38] 19... [1:22:39] Well, the very first time... [1:22:40] 67, yeah. [1:22:41] So, can we do the math together? [1:22:43] 12 years before [1:22:44] the Islamic Republic of Iran [1:22:45] existed, [1:22:46] Israel was oppressing, [1:22:47] occupying, [1:22:48] dispossessing [1:22:48] the people of Gaza. [1:22:49] So your argument [1:22:50] makes no sense. [1:22:50] And were there any [1:22:51] terrorist organizations [1:22:52] at the time? [1:22:52] The PLO was considered [1:22:53] a terrorist organization [1:22:54] by the entire Western world. [1:22:55] All right. [1:22:56] So, what's Hamas there? [1:22:57] Hamas did not exist [1:22:58] until the 1980s. [1:22:59] Exactly. [1:22:59] My point is, [1:23:01] after the Islamic Republic came, [1:23:02] it became chaotic [1:23:04] because the Islamic Republic [1:23:05] has started to use [1:23:06] the so-called [1:23:08] innocent Palestinians [1:23:09] for their own ends. [1:23:09] So-called innocent Palestinians? [1:23:11] You don't think [1:23:11] Palestinians are innocent? [1:23:12] Not all of them. [1:23:13] But what about [1:23:13] the 17,000 children [1:23:15] who were killed? [1:23:15] They're doing the same... [1:23:16] 17,000 children [1:23:17] were killed [1:23:17] were they not innocent? [1:23:19] Were they not innocent? [1:23:20] Who's responsible for that? [1:23:22] Israel. [1:23:22] No. [1:23:23] Hamas is responsible. [1:23:24] Hamas is responsible [1:23:25] for hiding in hospitals [1:23:26] and banking tunnels [1:23:27] underneath those hospitals. [1:23:27] So when children [1:23:28] are shot in the head [1:23:29] by Israeli snipers, [1:23:30] Israeli snipers [1:23:31] aren't responsible for that? [1:23:32] Look... [1:23:33] It's a simple question. [1:23:33] Here's the problem. [1:23:34] When Israeli snipers [1:23:35] shoot Palestinian children [1:23:36] in Gaza in the head, [1:23:37] as eyewitness testimony [1:23:38] and doctor's testimony proves, [1:23:40] that's not the fault [1:23:41] of the Israeli snipers. [1:23:42] This is the problem [1:23:43] because when you have a problem... [1:23:44] The problem is [1:23:44] you won't answer the question. [1:23:45] I'll ask you a third time. [1:23:46] When Israeli snipers [1:23:47] shoot Palestinian children [1:23:48] in the head, [1:23:48] is that not the fault [1:23:49] of Israeli snipers? [1:23:50] You gotta let me finish. [1:23:52] No, you gotta answer [1:23:52] the question. [1:23:53] Fourth time. [1:23:53] When Israeli snipers [1:23:54] shoot Palestinian children [1:23:56] in the head... [1:23:56] I will get to your answer. [1:23:57] We're running out of time. [1:23:57] I need to know [1:23:58] what you think [1:23:58] about innocent children [1:23:59] because what you said [1:24:00] was pretty outrageous. [1:24:01] You said so-called [1:24:01] innocent Palestinians. [1:24:03] For the fifth time [1:24:04] when Palestinian children [1:24:05] are shot in the head [1:24:05] by Israeli snipers, [1:24:06] is that not the fault [1:24:07] of Israeli snipers? [1:24:08] What did those children do? [1:24:10] What did they do? [1:24:11] You tell me [1:24:11] that the children [1:24:12] deserve to be shot in the head. [1:24:13] Because the problem is [1:24:13] over there... [1:24:14] Millions of people [1:24:14] are watching you say [1:24:15] to justify the killing of children. [1:24:17] They start brainwashing children [1:24:18] at a very young age. [1:24:20] So you support [1:24:21] sniping children in Gaza? [1:24:23] Look... [1:24:23] Do other people here [1:24:24] support sniping children in Gaza? [1:24:26] Is that a conservative position now? [1:24:28] What if they're wearing [1:24:29] a suicide vest? [1:24:30] They weren't. [1:24:31] What if they are? [1:24:32] They're not, though. [1:24:32] Dozens of children. [1:24:33] I have friends [1:24:34] who went there. [1:24:34] Doctors went to Gaza. [1:24:35] American doctors. [1:24:36] They came back [1:24:37] as we were multiple children [1:24:38] with gunshots. [1:24:38] What if they're hell-bent [1:24:40] on killing you [1:24:41] and your family? [1:24:42] A 10-year-old child, [1:24:43] an 8-year-old child, [1:24:44] a 6-year-old child? [1:24:46] Because... [1:24:46] This is bad for you. [1:24:47] You're sitting on [1:24:48] live television [1:24:49] where millions of people [1:24:51] are going to see [1:24:51] your neighbours, [1:24:52] your friends. [1:24:52] You support the killing [1:24:53] of children. [1:24:53] Millions of people [1:24:54] don't know what's going on. [1:24:55] Even your fellow [1:24:56] right-wingers are saying [1:24:57] don't go this far. [1:24:59] White genocide, sure, [1:25:00] but don't advocate [1:25:01] killing kids. [1:25:01] Millions of people [1:25:01] don't understand [1:25:02] the brainwashing [1:25:03] that is going on [1:25:04] in Islamic Republic [1:25:05] and in Palestine [1:25:06] to create this hatred. [1:25:07] You're obsessed with Iran [1:25:08] so much [1:25:09] that you're supporting [1:25:10] the killing [1:25:10] of Palestinian children [1:25:11] who never harmed you [1:25:12] or any other Israeli. [1:25:13] That's insane. [1:25:15] Look. [1:25:15] And the fact that you support [1:25:16] Trump's ethnic cleansing [1:25:17] now doesn't surprise me. [1:25:17] I didn't say ethnic cleansing. [1:25:19] I said cleansing of the land. [1:25:20] All right, pause. [1:25:21] Because you need to cleanse [1:25:21] the land from all the top channels. [1:25:22] I'm sure Slavadan Milosevic [1:25:23] said similar stuff. [1:25:24] You've been voted out. [1:25:25] Please return to your seat. [1:25:34] How are you doing? [1:25:35] Good to see you again. [1:25:35] I'm good seeing you too, man. [1:25:37] First thing I'm going to say [1:25:38] is I'm not dying for Israel. [1:25:40] Okay, that's the first thing [1:25:40] I'm going to say. [1:25:41] And I don't like [1:25:44] the type of rhetoric that you do. [1:25:45] You talk like all of these [1:25:46] like left-wing positions. [1:25:47] And then you go to the last part, [1:25:49] which is I don't support [1:25:50] ethnic cleansing in Palestine. [1:25:52] I think you're doing [1:25:52] a huge disservice [1:25:54] to pro-Palestinians [1:25:55] when you start allowing yourself [1:25:57] with all these progressives. [1:25:59] I don't think it looks good [1:26:00] because you have [1:26:00] all these conservatives in here [1:26:02] who oppose war. [1:26:03] They oppose intervention [1:26:04] in the same tradition [1:26:05] of Pat Buchanan [1:26:05] and all the greats [1:26:06] that came before him. [1:26:06] Not Donald Trump, though, sadly. [1:26:08] Yeah, it is sad. [1:26:09] It is sad. [1:26:09] I do agree. [1:26:10] I mean, he ran on an anti-war ticket. [1:26:12] He said he was going to... [1:26:13] Because he lies, right? [1:26:14] Are you going to let me talk [1:26:16] or you just want to... [1:26:16] Yeah, true. [1:26:17] So, I mean, yeah, [1:26:18] you keep going back to Trump. [1:26:20] I don't think this is part [1:26:21] of his plan. [1:26:22] I think this is a plan [1:26:23] of lobbyists. [1:26:24] And this is not just [1:26:25] unique to Trump. [1:26:26] It's been a thing [1:26:26] since the Democrats. [1:26:27] It's been a thing [1:26:27] since the Republicans [1:26:28] before him. [1:26:28] It's been like this [1:26:29] since Truman. [1:26:30] I don't know if you read [1:26:31] like John Mearsheimer's [1:26:32] The Israel Lobby [1:26:32] or anything like that. [1:26:33] Would you agree [1:26:34] or disagree with anything [1:26:34] like that? [1:26:35] Oh, I agree with Stephen [1:26:36] Walt and John Mesherman. [1:26:36] Yeah, for sure. [1:26:37] Okay, great. [1:26:37] So, I'm just wondering [1:26:38] when you ally yourself [1:26:39] with all these leftists [1:26:44] argue up here [1:26:44] that, you know, [1:26:45] Trump's this bad criminal [1:26:45] and this and that [1:26:46] and then you... [1:26:47] But you think Trump's bad too? [1:26:49] I think he's good [1:26:50] on some questions [1:26:50] and bad on other things [1:26:51] but let me get to the point here [1:26:52] is you ally yourselves [1:26:53] with guys like, you know, [1:26:54] Jewish Voices for Peace [1:26:56] and all those guys. [1:26:56] Great people. [1:26:57] Yeah, not really though. [1:26:59] Why? [1:26:59] Because they're self-interested in it. [1:27:01] They're not. [1:27:01] By definition, they're not. [1:27:02] It says it on their homepage. [1:27:04] By definition, [1:27:04] they're not self-interested, right? [1:27:05] They're going against [1:27:05] their own community. [1:27:05] Are you going to let me talk? [1:27:06] On their homepage, [1:27:07] it literally says that [1:27:08] we are here to segregate Judaism [1:27:11] from Zionism. [1:27:12] It's very clear they're doing this [1:27:13] in their own interest. [1:27:14] That's why it literally says [1:27:15] Jewish Voices for Peace. [1:27:16] They're going to be the good Jews [1:27:17] who say that [1:27:17] we don't support Palestine [1:27:18] and then what happens is [1:27:19] you take all these progressives, [1:27:21] you go out there [1:27:21] and LARP in the street [1:27:22] and then everyone here [1:27:23] who's conservative, [1:27:24] they're going to vote [1:27:24] for the pro-war candidate [1:27:25] because they don't want to be [1:27:26] associated with all the liberals. [1:27:27] You're forced to vote [1:27:28] for pro-war people. [1:27:29] Poor conservatives. [1:27:29] It's either that [1:27:29] or get replaced in my country. [1:27:30] What do you want me to do? [1:27:31] Oh, you and your replacement bullshit. [1:27:33] Yeah, okay, buddy. [1:27:41] Oh, wow. [1:27:41] That's three people so far. [1:27:43] Let's keep counting. [1:27:44] We should be nicer to you [1:27:45] otherwise you'll deport us. [1:27:46] What a great argument. [1:27:47] This is the free speech debate camp. [1:27:50] It's not your country, my friend. [1:27:51] It's our country [1:27:52] whether you like it or not. [1:28:01] Kai was, he smiled, he laughed. [1:28:04] He disagreed. [1:28:06] I felt like it was good faith. [1:28:08] Let's see. [1:28:08] I appreciate it, buddy. [1:28:09] He seemed to be in good faith. [1:28:11] He seems kind of smart [1:28:12] and, you know, [1:28:14] he's one of the few people [1:28:15] who doesn't want to deport me. [1:28:16] Well, maybe not. [1:28:17] We're going to find out. [1:28:19] My claim is [1:28:20] we should get rid of [1:28:20] birthright citizenship. [1:28:23] Why do you want to get rid [1:28:23] of birthright citizenship [1:28:24] and how, by the way? [1:28:25] Because you know [1:28:26] it's in the Constitution. [1:28:26] I'm so glad you brought this up. [1:28:27] Yes. [1:28:28] Because it was one of my... [1:28:29] The 14th. [1:28:29] I mentioned it to a bunch [1:28:30] of your friends [1:28:31] and nobody wanted to engage [1:28:32] in the 14th. [1:28:32] Yeah. [1:28:33] Let's talk about the 14th Amendment. [1:28:34] Exactly. [1:28:34] The citizenship clause [1:28:35] which says that [1:28:36] if you're born here [1:28:37] you're a citizen of the United States. [1:28:38] Yes. [1:28:39] And I chose this [1:28:40] because it's an extension [1:28:41] of the original debate [1:28:42] and the immigration debate. [1:28:43] Okay. [1:28:43] I think birthright citizenship, [1:28:45] first of all, [1:28:46] when it was originally argued, [1:28:47] you know, [1:28:48] among the people [1:28:50] who were actually voting [1:28:51] on the clause, right? [1:28:53] It was argued [1:28:53] that the birthright citizenship [1:28:56] was not automatically extended [1:28:57] to everybody [1:28:58] who was just born here. [1:28:59] And we have a long history [1:29:00] of that as well. [1:29:00] For example, [1:29:01] with the Native Americans [1:29:02] who had particular laws [1:29:04] that applied solely to them. [1:29:05] What I think we're seeing [1:29:06] in this country [1:29:07] is not everybody [1:29:08] is so similarly [1:29:09] under the jurisdiction thereof [1:29:10] of the United States, right? [1:29:12] And by allowing [1:29:13] for birthright citizenship [1:29:14] and not interpreting [1:29:15] the Constitution [1:29:16] as we are legally allowed to [1:29:17] and restrict, [1:29:19] you know, [1:29:19] the automatic citizenship [1:29:20] of anybody who's born here, [1:29:21] we actually remove the issue, [1:29:23] for example, [1:29:23] of family separation [1:29:24] because there is no incentive [1:29:25] of a family [1:29:26] to come over [1:29:27] to this country illegally [1:29:28] and then have a child, [1:29:29] which is contributing [1:29:30] to the awful situation [1:29:31] we have in America [1:29:31] of breaking up families. [1:29:33] This is not something [1:29:33] that I imagine [1:29:34] you or I agree with. [1:29:35] No. [1:29:35] The issue is birthright citizenship [1:29:37] has incentivized that. [1:29:38] So even if I were to concede [1:29:41] that in some cases [1:29:42] birthright citizenship [1:29:42] has incentivized that, [1:29:44] you know, [1:29:44] I don't like the phrase [1:29:45] anchor babies, [1:29:46] but I'm not naive enough [1:29:47] to pretend [1:29:48] that there are not immigrants [1:29:49] who come here [1:29:49] and time the pregnancy [1:29:51] in order to get... [1:29:52] You and I can agree on that. [1:29:53] Yeah. [1:29:54] But that doesn't mean [1:29:54] you then rip up [1:29:55] a constitutional principle [1:29:57] that goes back centuries, [1:29:58] goes back before [1:29:59] the 14th Amendment. [1:30:00] The 14th Amendment came about [1:30:01] I think in 1868 [1:30:02] if memory serves me correctly. [1:30:03] But the principle underlying it [1:30:05] is actually from [1:30:06] another country, [1:30:07] the UK, [1:30:07] ancient English common law, right? [1:30:10] So this was always the case. [1:30:11] The 14th Amendment, [1:30:12] as you know, [1:30:13] because you seem well read, [1:30:14] came along and codified [1:30:15] what was already a principle [1:30:16] in American and English law, [1:30:18] that if you're born in the country, [1:30:19] you are a citizen. [1:30:20] Now you mentioned the point [1:30:21] about jurisdiction. [1:30:21] There is that little bit in there [1:30:22] where it says subject [1:30:24] to the jurisdiction thereof. [1:30:25] That in the debate, [1:30:26] if you go back and read the debate [1:30:27] that the senators had at the time, [1:30:29] they were very explicit [1:30:30] that that was to do [1:30:31] with foreign ministers [1:30:32] and foreign ambassadors, [1:30:33] diplomats living in embassies, [1:30:34] decades shouldn't be citizens. [1:30:35] Obviously, [1:30:36] they're here on their own [1:30:37] the Argentine embassy in D.C. [1:30:39] is Argentine soil. [1:30:40] So we accept all that. [1:30:41] Absolutely, amigo. [1:30:42] But when they were asked [1:30:43] about Chinese immigrants, [1:30:45] Senator Trumbull, [1:30:46] who was, I think, [1:30:47] the chair of the Judiciary Committee [1:30:48] back in the 1860s [1:30:49] during this debate, [1:30:50] he said at the time, [1:30:51] Chinese immigrants, [1:30:52] children, [1:30:53] they're citizens. [1:30:54] In fact, [1:30:55] in 1898, [1:30:56] as you well know, [1:30:57] we get Wong Kim Ark, [1:30:58] Supreme Court case, [1:30:59] Wong Kim Ark versus the United States. [1:31:01] And the Supreme Court says, [1:31:03] yes, [1:31:03] even the child of undocumented [1:31:04] Chinese immigrants [1:31:05] is an American citizen. [1:31:07] So this is a principle [1:31:08] going back centuries. [1:31:09] So while I can agree with you [1:31:10] that there are cases [1:31:11] that abuse the 14th Amendment, [1:31:13] that there are issues [1:31:13] of family separation, [1:31:14] I'm not going to rip up [1:31:16] a constitutional principle [1:31:17] that goes back centuries [1:31:18] and is backed by [1:31:19] a hundred and what, [1:31:20] 27-year-old Supreme Court president [1:31:22] because Donald Trump [1:31:23] is looking for ways [1:31:23] to cut the number [1:31:25] of brown and black people [1:31:26] in the United States. [1:31:26] If you don't mind me interrupting, [1:31:27] this is where I think [1:31:28] it's important as well [1:31:29] to go back to what we talked about [1:31:30] with the Constitution. [1:31:31] When we're analyzing, [1:31:33] and admittedly, [1:31:34] I'm not as interested [1:31:35] in the legal argument. [1:31:36] There's obviously many ways [1:31:37] to interpret the Constitution. [1:31:39] But I don't think, [1:31:40] especially among conservatives, [1:31:41] that it is positive [1:31:43] to use the Constitution [1:31:44] to dismantle it. [1:31:45] When we analyze [1:31:46] the original context, [1:31:46] like you were saying [1:31:47] in the late 19th century, [1:31:49] our immigration law [1:31:50] was absolutely different, [1:31:51] including, you know, [1:31:52] in respect with the Irish [1:31:53] and Chinese immigrants [1:31:54] that were coming over. [1:31:55] It was absolutely different. [1:31:57] We had open borders, my friend. [1:31:58] Some people in this room [1:31:59] would hate it. [1:32:00] We had open borders [1:32:00] for half of American history. [1:32:01] Well, I don't think [1:32:03] that's very true. [1:32:05] It's 100% true. [1:32:06] Hold on. [1:32:06] If you're comparing [1:32:07] the open borders, [1:32:08] which I don't concede to, [1:32:09] but if you're comparing [1:32:10] the open borders [1:32:10] prior to like 1910 [1:32:12] and prior to the Hart-Celler Act [1:32:14] and you look at the amount [1:32:15] of immigration [1:32:16] and who was coming over. [1:32:17] Oh, nice deflection. [1:32:18] Amount is irrelevant. [1:32:19] We did have an open border. [1:32:19] It is absolutely relevant. [1:32:20] Why? [1:32:21] Because the Constitution, [1:32:22] like the Founding Fathers... [1:32:23] Hold on. [1:32:24] Your argument is [1:32:24] we had open borders [1:32:25] but there were fewer immigrants. [1:32:26] I was about to answer. [1:32:27] It's important to analyze [1:32:28] the context wherein [1:32:28] these laws and parts [1:32:30] of the Constitution arise. [1:32:31] The original Founding Fathers [1:32:32] said the Constitution [1:32:33] was made only for [1:32:34] immoral and religious people [1:32:35] and is wholly inadequate [1:32:36] to the government [1:32:37] of any other, [1:32:38] which means the people [1:32:38] that wrote this document [1:32:39] understood that it would [1:32:41] not be able to properly... [1:32:42] Super secular people. [1:32:43] Let's just be clear on it. [1:32:44] Oh, no. [1:32:44] That's not true. [1:32:45] They were deists. [1:32:45] A lot of them were super secular. [1:32:46] No, the majority were deists. [1:32:47] But they were secular. [1:32:48] Secular doesn't mean atheist. [1:32:48] You know what that means. [1:32:49] I understand that. [1:32:50] But deists doesn't mean [1:32:50] secular or atheist. [1:32:51] It means they believe in a God [1:32:52] but not a God [1:32:53] that's particularly present. [1:32:53] I didn't say anything [1:32:53] about whether they're deists [1:32:54] or theists. [1:32:54] I said they're secular. [1:32:55] Okay, but secular and deists... [1:32:56] It means you separate [1:32:56] church and state. [1:32:57] Okay, well, let's talk... [1:32:58] We could even talk about that. [1:32:59] That's a perfect example. [1:33:00] You're going to run out [1:33:01] of your own time [1:33:01] making your argument [1:33:02] which I haven't made so far. [1:33:02] I understand. [1:33:03] But the separation [1:33:03] of church and state [1:33:04] is now completely differently [1:33:05] understood than originally proposed. [1:33:07] Thomas Jefferson, [1:33:07] who talks about [1:33:08] the wall of separation, [1:33:09] which doesn't even exist [1:33:10] in the Constitution, [1:33:10] understood in a different way. [1:33:11] It is a Supreme Court precedent [1:33:12] as you well know. [1:33:13] Yeah, sure. [1:33:13] But the precedent [1:33:14] of the last 100 years [1:33:15] wherein the country [1:33:16] has been completely different [1:33:16] from its founding [1:33:17] should not overrule [1:33:18] the original intent [1:33:19] of the people [1:33:20] who wrote the document [1:33:20] that you and I [1:33:21] are both citing. [1:33:22] Okay. [1:33:22] Which means... [1:33:23] But I'm not locked [1:33:24] into what the people [1:33:25] who wrote the... [1:33:25] We've had amendments [1:33:26] to the Constitution. [1:33:27] You know that, right? [1:33:27] I understand that. [1:33:28] And this is our [1:33:28] fundamental disagreement [1:33:29] is that I don't believe... [1:33:30] You think you can read [1:33:31] the minds of people [1:33:32] in the 1770s? [1:33:33] No, that's not true. [1:33:33] And I'm stuck. [1:33:34] I just believe this country [1:33:35] ought to be more like [1:33:36] the country we originally had [1:33:40] Well, let me try to see [1:33:43] what you believe. [1:33:43] Okay. [1:33:44] If we are voting [1:33:45] on these constitutional amendments, [1:33:47] if we are interpreting them [1:33:48] and our interpretation [1:33:49] becomes absolutely, [1:33:50] let's say, a 180 [1:33:51] from what the original intent [1:33:53] of the authors [1:33:54] of that document is, [1:33:55] are you in favor of that? [1:33:59] I guess it depends on the issue. [1:34:01] Okay. [1:34:01] I would say no matter what... [1:34:02] So, for example, [1:34:03] take the Second Amendment [1:34:03] which we kind of danced around. [1:34:05] It's not been... [1:34:05] It's come up here and there. [1:34:06] You know the debate [1:34:07] about the Second Amendment. [1:34:08] The fundamental debate [1:34:09] is one side says [1:34:10] it's unlimited [1:34:11] and the other side says [1:34:12] no, no, what they meant [1:34:12] was the militias. [1:34:13] Yeah. [1:34:13] They didn't... [1:34:14] And they had muskets. [1:34:15] They didn't mean AR-15s, right? [1:34:16] So we can have that endless debate [1:34:18] which I really don't care for [1:34:19] about that. [1:34:20] But to come back to your point [1:34:21] about the constitutional principles, [1:34:22] the Fourteenth Amendment [1:34:23] comes along in the 1860s. [1:34:25] So it's pretty old. [1:34:25] It's not as old as America. [1:34:26] Yeah. [1:34:26] But it comes along [1:34:27] and it's been around [1:34:28] for 150 years. [1:34:29] So if you want to get away, [1:34:30] you want to get rid of it. [1:34:30] But it was around. [1:34:31] It was around before [1:34:31] 150 million Americans. [1:34:33] And I'm saying it was around [1:34:34] before the United States [1:34:35] was even created. [1:34:35] It's part of ancient [1:34:36] English common law. [1:34:36] If you're born in a place, [1:34:37] you're a citizen of that place [1:34:38] unless you're a child [1:34:39] of a foreign diplomat [1:34:39] or on a Native American reservation. [1:34:41] English common law [1:34:42] did not exist simultaneously [1:34:43] as millions of people [1:34:44] coming across the border [1:34:45] in a year. [1:34:46] Just to get to principles, [1:34:47] your argument is [1:34:47] numbers change everything. [1:34:49] Because we've got [1:34:49] so many more people [1:34:50] who change the constitution. [1:34:51] Not solely, [1:34:51] but absolutely. [1:34:52] Okay. [1:34:52] The demographics [1:34:53] of your immigration [1:34:54] absolutely change it. [1:34:55] Can I ask you a question? [1:34:56] If you got rid of [1:34:57] the Fourteenth Amendment, [1:34:59] what would be in its place? [1:35:00] I think a citizenship task [1:35:01] would be fantastic. [1:35:02] What age? [1:35:02] I think we could administer it [1:35:04] in high school. [1:35:05] To everyone? [1:35:06] Sure. [1:35:06] Or just the immigrants? [1:35:07] No, everybody. [1:35:08] And then if you fail it, [1:35:09] you denaturalize [1:35:10] white American Native women? [1:35:12] Maybe you can't get [1:35:12] a government job. [1:35:13] You denaturalize that dude? [1:35:14] I think there's plenty [1:35:14] of benefits [1:35:15] that the government [1:35:15] offers people [1:35:16] that you should not [1:35:17] be able to receive. [1:35:19] I'll tell you this, right? [1:35:20] This might sound bad. [1:35:22] But I don't think [1:35:22] people care for me anyway, [1:35:24] so let me say [1:35:24] something you might not like. [1:35:25] Nobody would pass it. [1:35:26] If you have a high school [1:35:27] immigration citizenship test [1:35:28] for everyone, [1:35:30] I think people will [1:35:30] take citizenship [1:35:31] more seriously. [1:35:31] I'm guessing the immigrant kids [1:35:33] are going to outperform [1:35:33] and the white kids [1:35:34] and you might actually end up [1:35:35] denaturalizing [1:35:36] some of the white kids [1:35:37] and then people here [1:35:38] will be really upset. [1:35:39] Well, hold on. [1:35:40] And I like to be [1:35:40] consistent about this. [1:35:41] That's possible. [1:35:42] But what I think it would do [1:35:43] is it would give everybody [1:35:44] a larger sense [1:35:45] of the importance [1:35:45] of citizenship. [1:35:46] So you would say [1:35:46] no one born in this country [1:35:47] is a citizen? [1:35:48] No one? [1:35:49] Automatically no. [1:35:49] Automatically no. [1:35:50] I think we could extend that. [1:35:51] You know, people who have [1:35:52] a heritage in the country [1:35:54] of like... [1:35:54] What are they [1:35:54] until they pass the test? [1:35:56] Undocumented? [1:35:57] I suppose, yeah. [1:35:57] They are not able [1:35:58] to receive government benefits. [1:35:59] They're not able [1:36:00] to receive government benefits. [1:36:01] They're not able [1:36:01] to apply for these jobs [1:36:02] that are... [1:36:03] But their parents are citizens. [1:36:04] Okay, well, hold on. [1:36:05] We're talking here [1:36:05] about the way [1:36:06] that we would implement it. [1:36:07] Yeah, it's pretty important. [1:36:08] If you're trying to get rid [1:36:09] of the 14th Amendment, [1:36:09] I'm going to ask [1:36:10] about the practicalities of it. [1:36:11] And we're not... [1:36:11] Trump's doing it right now. [1:36:12] Hold on. [1:36:12] And I'm not going to be able [1:36:13] to explain it to you [1:36:13] in 10 minutes. [1:36:14] But what I can explain to you [1:36:15] is that right now [1:36:15] in this country, [1:36:16] we have a crisis of people [1:36:17] not... [1:36:17] I don't accept that. [1:36:18] Hold on. [1:36:18] We're not understanding [1:36:20] what citizenship is. [1:36:21] The way that you've referred [1:36:22] to citizenship [1:36:23] makes everybody [1:36:23] who hasn't come [1:36:24] to the United States [1:36:25] an undocumented American citizen [1:36:26] until the time [1:36:27] they come over here. [1:36:28] That's how a lot [1:36:28] of countries are, right? [1:36:29] You know that birthright citizenship [1:36:30] is operated by multiple [1:36:32] democracies around the world. [1:36:33] I know Trump lies and says, [1:36:34] we're the only country [1:36:35] that does it. [1:36:35] He lies. [1:36:36] That's not true. [1:36:37] Multiple countries [1:36:37] have birthright citizenship. [1:36:37] Do you think it ought [1:36:38] to be that way? [1:36:38] Do you think everybody [1:36:39] in the world [1:36:39] is an undocumented American? [1:36:41] Hold on, hold on. [1:36:42] Or undocumented Canadian [1:36:44] or undocumented Brit, right? [1:36:45] Or undocumented you? [1:36:46] Sure. [1:36:46] Well, I'm an American [1:36:47] so I say America. [1:36:48] But yeah. [1:36:49] But I'm saying, right? [1:36:49] The principle is you immigrate. [1:36:50] We have free movement. [1:36:51] Do you believe that? [1:36:51] I support free movement [1:36:52] of people around the world. [1:36:53] But do you believe [1:36:54] they're all undocumented? [1:36:54] Are you Kim Jong-un? [1:36:55] You think people should [1:36:56] only stay in one country [1:36:56] and never leave [1:36:57] and be blocked [1:36:58] from leaving their country? [1:36:58] That's a very illiberal [1:36:59] and conservative position. [1:37:01] I think there's a big [1:37:01] libertarian [1:37:02] There's big room [1:37:03] to move between [1:37:04] being Kim Jong-un [1:37:05] and saying that... [1:37:06] Not really. [1:37:06] In practical terms, [1:37:07] if you accept... [1:37:08] I gave one side. [1:37:09] I want to give the other. [1:37:10] There's a big room [1:37:10] to move between [1:37:11] being Kim Jong-un [1:37:12] and saying that [1:37:13] everybody in the world [1:37:15] is an American. [1:37:16] They're just not [1:37:16] on our soil yet. [1:37:17] I think being an American citizen... [1:37:18] That's a ridiculous statement, right? [1:37:19] Because everyone in the world [1:37:20] is not heading [1:37:20] for the United States of America. [1:37:21] In fact, right now, [1:37:22] numbers of people coming in [1:37:23] are dropping a lot. [1:37:23] But the idea [1:37:24] that you are supporting [1:37:25] is that the moment [1:37:26] you come to this soil [1:37:27] and that you're born here, [1:37:29] you become an American. [1:37:30] So I'm not saying [1:37:30] at the moment [1:37:31] you come to this soil [1:37:31] you become an American. [1:37:32] I didn't. [1:37:32] I had to do the test. [1:37:33] I had to do [1:37:34] the naturalization process [1:37:35] which is guaranteed [1:37:36] by the 14th Amendment. [1:37:37] But the 14th Amendment [1:37:38] also says [1:37:38] if you're born here [1:37:39] then you automatically get it. [1:37:41] And I'm not saying [1:37:41] it's a hill I'm going to die on. [1:37:43] The problem we have [1:37:44] is we don't appreciate [1:37:45] citizenship. [1:37:47] The problem is [1:37:48] that when you talk [1:37:49] about immigration [1:37:49] like we did before. [1:37:50] We can agree on that. [1:37:50] When we talked about [1:37:51] everything before, [1:37:52] what were we talking about? [1:37:52] We were talking about products. [1:37:53] We weren't talking about practices [1:37:54] or perceptions [1:37:55] which is really what [1:37:56] immigration is about. [1:37:57] Can I agree with you? [1:37:58] We don't in this country [1:37:59] value citizenship enough. [1:38:00] I agree. [1:38:00] I think we should encourage people [1:38:01] to have more civics lessons [1:38:03] in schools, [1:38:03] understand American history [1:38:04] and constitution [1:38:05] much more. [1:38:06] Here's what the irony is [1:38:07] I'm sitting in a room today [1:38:08] where I've met [1:38:08] a bunch of people [1:38:09] claiming to be [1:38:10] Native Americans [1:38:10] who hate everything [1:38:12] America stood for [1:38:13] for centuries. [1:38:13] I think they stand [1:38:14] much closer to the America [1:38:15] that we originally had [1:38:16] and I think that's [1:38:16] the big disagreement. [1:38:17] I don't think any of you [1:38:17] lived there or had any clue [1:38:18] what that was like [1:38:18] and there were a lot of [1:38:19] horrible things about that America. [1:38:21] But you've agreed to [1:38:22] dismantling that America [1:38:23] as long as it's legal. [1:38:24] You have. [1:38:24] You're the person who came here [1:38:25] and made your argument [1:38:25] taking away an amendment [1:38:27] of the Constitution. [1:38:28] I didn't. [1:38:28] I said keep the Second Amendment. [1:38:29] I'm an originalist. [1:38:30] I think we should interpret it [1:38:31] the way it was probably [1:38:31] originally interpreted. [1:38:33] All right, guys. [1:38:33] That's time. [1:38:35] Nice to meet you, Kites. [1:38:36] Thank you very much. [1:38:37] Appreciate it. [1:38:38] I thought it would be [1:38:40] an interesting exercise [1:38:41] in trying to understand [1:38:42] what genuine far-right [1:38:44] conservative folks think [1:38:46] and it was kind of disturbing [1:38:47] to see that they think [1:38:48] what I thought they think [1:38:49] and they were happy [1:38:49] to say it out loud. [1:38:50] I am disappointed [1:38:51] that I had to sit across [1:38:52] from people who believe [1:38:53] in white genocide, [1:38:54] who believe I'm not a citizen. [1:38:56] Multiple people here [1:38:56] said I should be deported. [1:38:58] One of them was even [1:38:58] the child of immigrants, [1:38:59] which I found bizarre. [1:39:01] Obviously, we were way outclassed. [1:39:03] Like, we're not [1:39:04] professional debaters. [1:39:06] I don't think anyone [1:39:07] in this room was. [1:39:07] Maybe one or two people. [1:39:09] And clearly, Manny, [1:39:10] he does this for a living, right? [1:39:12] He's a journalist. [1:39:13] So he's really good [1:39:14] at what he does. [1:39:14] Mehdi Hassan was pretty good [1:39:16] at, you know, [1:39:16] taking cheap shots, [1:39:17] trying to, like, you know, [1:39:18] derail people [1:39:18] from their arguments. [1:39:20] You know, trying to, like, [1:39:21] pit me against, you know, [1:39:22] some of the people [1:39:23] that wouldn't like [1:39:24] people of my color [1:39:24] to be in the United States, [1:39:26] which is irrelevant. [1:39:27] I think one person said [1:39:28] as he walked off, [1:39:28] you'll be the first to go, [1:39:30] which is ominous and racist. [1:39:32] I think that was disheartening [1:39:33] and particularly discouraging [1:39:35] because it just felt like [1:39:36] it was fitting into a stereotype [1:39:37] that we're trying to fight against, [1:39:38] which is, like, [1:39:39] we actually have arguments. [1:39:40] We can provide good reason. [1:39:41] And that rhetoric [1:39:41] just pushes that far away. [1:39:43] I am, I guess, [1:39:44] a far-right Republican. [1:39:45] But as I learned today, [1:39:46] not as far-right as I thought I was. [1:39:48] You know, someone gets up [1:39:49] and they're just like, [1:39:50] yeah, I mean, [1:39:50] I guess I just want to have, like, [1:39:52] autocracy forever [1:39:52] and Christian nationalism [1:39:54] or just being like, [1:39:55] yeah, I'm racist. [1:39:56] And to me, [1:39:57] that's very foreign of a concept. [1:39:59] While I didn't, you know, [1:40:00] disagree with most of the people [1:40:00] in the circle, [1:40:01] it did bother me at times, [1:40:02] you know, [1:40:02] to see them say mean things. [1:40:04] There's not really a reason to do that. [1:40:06] But it also upset me when Mehdi said, [1:40:08] you know, [1:40:08] I'm not willing to debate [1:40:08] with those people. [1:40:10] Free speech doesn't mean [1:40:11] you need to give credibility [1:40:12] or oxygen or a platform [1:40:13] to people who don't agree [1:40:15] in human equality. [1:40:17] I hear Mehdi's point [1:40:18] about not giving them a platform, [1:40:19] but the thing is, [1:40:20] if you stop giving them a platform, [1:40:22] they don't just go away [1:40:23] and change their mind. [1:40:24] And then you tell the rest of society [1:40:26] no one exists who thinks like that. [1:40:27] And that's not true. [1:40:28] I do like to debate people, [1:40:29] even people I disagree with. [1:40:31] I try and avoid bad faith folks. [1:40:33] I think some of the folks today [1:40:33] were bad faith. [1:40:35] You know, [1:40:35] I'm anti-conservative, right? [1:40:37] I don't support conservative views [1:40:38] on taxation. [1:40:39] I don't support conservative views [1:40:41] on immigration. [1:40:42] But the people here today [1:40:43] were way beyond conservatives. [1:40:44] This is open authoritarianism. [1:40:46] And this is what is being normalized [1:40:47] and mainstreamed in our country [1:40:49] by people in power, [1:40:50] by the media, [1:40:51] by people who don't know any better. [1:40:52] Let's talk about aера görst thou with a chicken Gentlemen. [1:40:57] Let's talk to you now. [1:40:58] Let's talk to you about this club. [1:40:59] Let's talk to you about this club. [1:41:00] Let's talk to you by yourself over here. [1:41:00] Okay, men, [1:41:01] орм the ball, [1:41:02] fuck up. [1:41:04] Let's talk to you about this club. [1:41:05] Let's talk to you about this club. [1:41:07] Let's talk to you.