1 Conservative vs 20 Liberals — Surrounded (ft. Austin Julio Broughton)

[0:00] You cannot sit up there and booty clap your cheeks [0:02] for Donald Trump when you down. [0:04] Do not interrupt a black trans woman when she's speaking. [0:06] You're anti-black and you're queerphobic. [0:09] Queerphobic? [0:10] And you're a raging misogynist. [0:12] Raging misogynist. [0:13] You need to unpack. [0:14] What was Martin Luther King? What was he? [0:15] What do you mean, what was he, a human being? [0:16] He was a Baptist preacher. [0:17] You just don't want to say it. [0:18] Did Joe Biden say he wanted a gay VP [0:20] or did he say he wanted a black VP? [0:21] He said, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. [0:23] Is the Republican Party more pro-free speech [0:26] or has the left become more willing to police it? [0:28] I'm Paris Rose from Jubilee Media and this is Surrounded, [0:32] where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreeers. [0:35] Today, we're exploring abortion, civil rights and Christianity [0:39] and that the left cares more about the LGBTQ community [0:42] than black Americans. [0:43] I'm here with our future guest, conservative Christian [0:46] and co-host of The Split, Austin Julio Broughton. [0:48] Hello, welcome in. [0:50] How are you? [0:51] I'm great, how are you? [0:52] You know, to prepare for this, I've wrestled with alligators [0:54] and I've tussled with whales [0:55] and I'm here to give each and every one of these liberals [0:57] political debate, hell. [0:59] Okay, love that. [1:01] Well, debaters, are you guys ready? [1:03] Yes! [1:04] All right, let's go. [1:05] I'm Austin Julio Broughton. [1:07] I'm a Christian conservative host of Jubilee's The Split [1:09] and today I have a dream. [1:11] Actually, no, I take it back. [1:12] I am in fact actually surrounded by 20 liberals. [1:16] My first surrounded claim is that the left cares more [1:19] about the LGBTQ community than black Americans. [1:22] If you'd like to be the first debater, [1:23] please get to the chair in three, two, one. [1:34] How you doing? [1:34] What's your name, brother? [1:35] Pretty good, pretty good. [1:36] What's your name? [1:37] I'm Wayne, Ramsey. [1:38] Ramsey, Austin, nice to meet you. [1:39] Nice to meet you as well. [1:40] You're not related to Pharaoh Ramsey, are you? [1:41] No, I'm not, but that is where my grandfather got the name. [1:42] Of course it is. [1:43] Yeah, yeah. [1:45] So let me, before we begin, [1:46] let me identify what it is I'm talking about. [1:48] Get ready to be shocked, internet. [1:49] I am a conservative that believes black people [1:51] are still owed a check from the U.S. federal government [1:52] because I'm very pro-reparation. [1:54] So what I'm talking about is the speed and efficiency [1:59] that policy has been used to advocate [2:02] for members of the LGBTQ community. [2:04] I do not want LGBTQIA citizens' rights slowed down. [2:08] I just want black justice sped up. [2:09] That's what I'm talking about. [2:10] Okay. [2:11] So why do we have to juxtapose the two [2:15] versus having an intersectional, [2:17] like an intersectional view on both of them? [2:19] Well, I'll tell you why. [2:20] Because the thing for me is my black, [2:22] the color of my skin should be enough to be seen [2:24] by the U.S. federal government at every level. [2:25] When you identify as a member of the LGBTQIA community, [2:28] you're actually adding an additional level of delineation [2:31] or you're becoming a minority within a minority, [2:33] which there's also, to be honest with you, [2:35] there's still a white power structure [2:37] within the LGBTQ community, [2:38] which allowed that movement to be seen at faster rates. [2:41] And I think, you know, the biggest piece of evidence [2:43] I would give to this is H.R. 40, [2:44] which is the reparations task force proposal [2:47] that the U.S. government still hasn't authorized. [2:49] Whereas when Obergefell, the Supreme Court case [2:52] that legalized same-sex marriage, [2:54] I think it took about around 58 years or so, [2:57] fact check me on the left side, [2:58] for same-sex marriage to be legalized. [2:59] Well, my only issue is, right, [3:02] I think that obviously as someone who is a double minority, [3:06] and like you've already mentioned, [3:09] who has to live the life of both, okay? [3:11] I can't take the color of my skin off, [3:12] but I also can't change my sexuality as we already know. [3:15] I don't think it's fair to say that one side, [3:18] being the left, pushes for LGBTQ plus representation more [3:22] or pushes for more advocacy for them. [3:24] When in reality, all you see is that, [3:26] in that community are black Americans. [3:27] You can't remove the people that are there that are like me. [3:30] No, no, no, and I'm not, let me be clear. [3:31] I'm not, I'm not removing it. [3:33] I'm just saying, look at the rhetoric [3:34] that the Democratic Party has used for the past 60 years, [3:37] right? [3:38] The Democratic Party, and Malcolm X gave us this warning [3:39] that the most dangerous enemy to black community [3:42] is the liberal, is in fact, the white liberal, [3:44] because they monopolized the Democratic Party after 1968. [3:48] The Democratic Party monopolized the civil rights fight, [3:52] and he allowed into his cartel, [3:53] only those liberals who would agree with him, [3:55] and black, and they've been saying for black people [3:57] for years, we're gonna get, [3:58] Joe Biden said, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. [4:00] We're gonna get the study. [4:01] And then what does he do the day he gets inaugurated? [4:03] He doesn't do anything for black Americans. [4:04] He literally passes a day of recognition [4:06] for trans individuals, the AAPI bill, [4:10] and he puts black people, [4:11] and the Democrats do this all the time. [4:12] They put black Americans at the absolute bottom [4:14] while lying to the black Americans [4:16] to maintain that large vote. [4:17] Well, we're also a part of that community as well, [4:19] so all those bills and all those things [4:21] that you just said were done for those people, [4:22] we are one of those people. [4:23] Right, again, I'm not, yeah. [4:25] So I hear you, right? [4:26] But what it sounds like is you're trying to say [4:28] is that you feel like cis straight black people [4:31] are being left out. [4:32] Is that what you're more so trying to get at? [4:33] Not even, not only heterosexual black people, [4:36] I'm just saying that people that don't even identify, [4:38] you could identify as asexual, [4:39] you could identify as anything. [4:41] What all I'm saying is that the speed and efficiency [4:44] through which the Democratic establishment made, [4:47] LGBTQI policy on the books was vastly faster [4:52] than anything that had ever happened for black people. [4:54] Black people were set free from slavery in 1863. [4:56] The Voting Rights Act, it wasn't passed until- [4:58] I would say that's a product of the system, though. [5:00] You can't blame the Democratic Party for that. [5:02] I would say that's a product of the system. [5:04] I can say that they monopolized the message [5:05] and lied to black people. [5:06] Yeah, I can blame the Democratic Party for that. [5:07] They said we'll give you reparations [5:08] and they ain't even, they haven't, [5:09] well, do you know what HR40 is? [5:10] I do, well, to address your claim, [5:13] I do think that we are owed reparations as well, [5:15] but I don't think that that is a problem [5:17] in which we can now say, [5:19] well, we feel like we're moving more [5:20] for this group versus this group. [5:21] No, no, no, again, it's not a feeling. [5:22] Okay, I'm gonna pause here. [5:23] You've been voted out by the majority, thank you. [5:25] That was good, very thoughtful, very good, very good. [5:30] If you'd like to be the next debater, [5:31] please get to the chair in three, two, one. [5:37] How are you, ma'am, how are you? [5:40] I'm good, we've met before, actually. [5:41] We have, you look familiar. [5:43] Tampa, the America tour, I was there. [5:45] Okay, I told you they call the all-stars in here, [5:47] now I'm nervous, all right. [5:49] At least you paid up when you made [5:50] that claim about Pam Bondi. [5:51] If I lose a bet, I'm gonna pay. [5:52] Pam should have released the files. [5:53] Good on you for that. [5:54] Well, I think the thing that needs to be addressed first [5:56] is I think that this is more of a culture war grab [5:59] than anything at all. [6:00] I think that the Democratic Party itself [6:03] doesn't have a racism problem. [6:05] I don't think that the left has a racism problem. [6:08] I think America has a racism problem. [6:09] And I think that's the- [6:10] Wait, I'm not talking about racism. [6:12] I'm saying that, no, no, what I'm saying [6:14] is that the Democratic Party [6:15] has consistently appealed to the black voting, [6:18] to its black voting bloc, which is making, [6:20] I mean, black people voted for Kamala Harris, [6:22] was it 89%, 88% of black men, [6:24] 92% of black women voted for Kamala Harris. [6:27] So that, black people have been staunch [6:29] supporters of the Democratic Party for decades, [6:31] after the 1960s. [6:32] So no, that's not a racism problem. [6:33] I'm talking about the speed- [6:34] But the dispute wasn't whether or not [6:36] black Americans support Democrats. [6:37] Right, it's the speed and efficiency. [6:39] I'm saying that the Democratic Party cares more [6:41] about immediately addressing, with speed, [6:43] the needs of the LGBTQIA community, [6:45] as opposed to black Americans. [6:46] And I'm going back to H.R. 40, [6:48] which is just a proposed investigation [6:52] to the effects of slavery, the effects of Jim Crow. [6:54] And that has still been sitting in committee to this day. [6:57] I think you could also look at Republican states, [6:59] because I think that, once again, this is not a- [7:02] Like, the issue with not addressing [7:05] black Americans' problems, [7:07] and the economic inequalities that they face, [7:09] and the other systemic policing issues that they face, [7:11] that is not a problem of the left, though. [7:13] You're painting this out to be a left thing, [7:15] because, quite frankly, [7:16] I think it's just a dig at the LGBTQ community. [7:18] I think that that's the only reason that you're doing this, [7:21] is in order to say like, [7:22] oh yeah, well, look at our problems, [7:23] they're not getting addressed. [7:24] And that's a conversation that we can have, [7:26] but the people that aren't having that conversation [7:28] aren't the ones on the left. [7:29] It's the people on the right [7:30] who aren't willing to have that conversation. [7:31] Well, here's the thing, that's, I'm not a, [7:33] let me make this clear, [7:34] I'm obviously not a conventional conservative, [7:35] because ain't no conservative gonna get on here [7:37] and say that they're pro-reparations, [7:38] because the establishment doesn't want them to say that, [7:40] but to hell with the political establishment. [7:41] I'm really more of a populist than anything else, [7:43] to be completely honest with you. [7:44] But what I'm saying is, it's not a jab at the left, [7:46] I'm literally acknowledging a fact. [7:48] I mean, if you look at it, [7:48] the 13th Amendment was ratified in December 1965. [7:52] Then why isn't your claim about politicians, [7:54] or US government, why is it about the left? [7:57] If it's not a jab at the left, [7:59] it's not a jab at the LGBTQ community. [8:00] I'll tell you why. [8:01] I'm really telling black people to wake the hell up, [8:03] because why are we still supporting a political party [8:06] that literally has put the last thing [8:08] that we need on the back? [8:09] Wait, which political party? [8:11] I thought it wasn't about political parties. [8:12] With, I'm specific, what is the claim? [8:13] So it is about the left? [8:15] It's about, yes. [8:16] Okay, so then why aren't you saying this [8:17] about the right then? [8:18] Because Republicans have, [8:19] what Republican has ever advocated for reparations? [8:21] What Republican has ever advocated directly? [8:23] Right, that's the point. [8:24] No, but what I'll say, no, what I'm saying. [8:27] Yes, come on. [8:28] No, no, no, no, don't do that, [8:29] because Republicans actually supported the Civil Rights Bill [8:34] more than Democrats in 1964. [8:36] They supported the Voting Rights Act [8:38] more than Democrats in 1965. [8:40] And those are, and when I say more, [8:42] I want to qualify what I'm saying. [8:44] None of those bills passed without Republican support, none. [8:47] Black Republicans have always been more apathetic [8:50] to the black community as a whole. [8:51] So I'm not going to, I'm not going to, what do you mean, what was the reason? [8:53] What was the reason for that? [8:54] I think it's a pretty straightforward question. [8:55] What was the reason for what, no, what was the question? [8:57] What were the reasons that the majority of supporters [8:59] of the Civil Rights Act were Republican? [9:01] Were Republican. [9:02] Well, because they didn't mind letting black people [9:04] stand on their own two feet. [9:05] They wanted to, they wanted to see equality. [9:06] You think that the Republicans wanted black people [9:08] to be equitable to white people? [9:10] Uh, Nixon did. [9:10] In the 60s? [9:11] Nixon did, for sure, in the 70s. [9:12] You think that was the consensus [9:14] amongst Republicans, really? [9:16] Yeah, are you about to try, [9:17] are you about to try to bring up the Southern strategy [9:19] and say that Republicans and Democrats switched ideologies? [9:20] Because that's been refuted several times. [9:22] Oh, no, I, that's actually not where I was going with that. [9:24] I think what speaks to that more is that there were more Republicans in office. [9:28] Yeah. [9:28] So the majority of proponents of the bill are going to be the people who are in office. [9:31] Wait a minute, wait a sec, wait a sec, hold on. [9:34] Neither of the Civil Rights Act of 63 or of 64 or the Voter Rights Act of 65, [9:37] neither of those acts passed without bipartisan support for both parties. [9:40] So that, but what I'm saying is that the Republicans- [9:42] But you're acting like Republicans are on this high ground for supporting this, [9:45] and they're not. [9:45] It's simply because they were the majority, that they were the majority who supported the bill. [9:49] So wait a minute, so that they didn't have to vote for the passage of the Civil Rights Act, but they did. [9:52] I understand that, but- [9:53] So that proves my point. [9:54] I'm not disputing that they voted for it or did not vote for it. [9:58] I'm disputing the fact that you're saying that they were the majority proponents of the bill. [10:02] Well, yes, because they were the majority in office at the time. [10:05] No, no, no, no, I'm not saying that they were the majority proponents of civil rights legislation, [10:08] because JFK was the one that proposed civil rights legislation. [10:11] Republicans simply gave damn near unanimous support, just like that. [10:14] All, and what I'm saying is- [10:16] I don't know if that's true. [10:17] Well, the fact check will be there. [10:18] What I'm saying is that, in mass, after the passage of the Civil Rights Act, [10:22] when black people began to overwhelmingly support the Democratic Party, [10:25] the Democratic Party told the greatest political lie I've ever seen, [10:28] which is, we will look into segregation's effects, [10:31] we will look into slavery's lasting effects, [10:33] and we'll give you a reparations task force. [10:35] But the task force I'm talking about, H.R. 40, [10:38] is still sitting under committee review to this day. [10:40] Meanwhile- [10:41] And who's to blame for that? [10:42] Meanwhile, meanwhile- [10:43] Who's to blame for that? [10:45] The entire political establishment- [10:47] So all of them, so it's not just a left thing. [10:49] But, okay, Republicans aren't saying we'll do this. [10:51] Democrats are saying we will do this, and then they're doing this. [10:54] They walk it back. I don't like that. [10:55] So would you rather have a backless Democrat than- [10:57] All right, we're gonna have to pause here. [10:58] You've been voted out by the majority. [11:00] Thank you. [11:00] That was good. That was good. [11:04] If you would like to be the next debater, [11:05] please get to that chair in three, two, one. [11:11] That's right. [11:13] How are you, man? [11:13] Good, how about you? [11:14] I saw you on the Officer Tatum one. That was- [11:16] Oh, thank you. [11:16] Yes. [11:17] So I did good, or- [11:18] I'd say half and half. [11:19] I'll do better. [11:20] Can you quantify what more policies the left has done for LGBTQ? [11:25] Yeah, sure. [11:26] So if you look at the Obergefell versus Hodges, established nationwide [11:30] constitutional recognition, 11 years and 40 days after the first state [11:34] to issue marriage licenses, Massachusetts started doing that in 2004. [11:37] That- [11:38] When was Virginia versus Love, though? [11:39] That was before Obergefell, which was interracial marriages. [11:43] Yeah, interracial, yeah. [11:44] You know, the left cared about black people before gay people. [11:46] But if we want to talk about just gay marriage there- [11:48] No, I'm talking about, but again, I'm specifically talking about the- [11:51] That mean that interracial marriage and same-sex marriage is two different things. [11:53] That's comparing- [11:54] Isn't that like comparing black people to white people, making them equal to marry each other, [11:58] rather than it being seen as, you know, as Nick Fuentes put bestiality? [12:02] Well, I wouldn't call same-sex marriage bestiality. [12:04] I know, but that's what people on the right would think of black people. [12:06] I would absolutely call it unnatural and a sin by 100%. [12:08] So I'm also one of these double minorities that's black and gay. [12:11] And I kind of see this as us trying to pin each other against when you don't care about either group. [12:16] What do you mean I don't care about- [12:17] You don't care about gay people or you don't care about black people. [12:19] I just sat here and told you I want black people to get a check that we still hold. [12:22] Besides reparations- [12:23] So how do I not care about black people? [12:24] Besides reparations, what's the other black populist policies you advocate for? [12:27] Well, everything we just discussed from- [12:29] Which was? [12:30] I would like to see a more egalitarian society crafted between black men and black women [12:32] Where my black sisters don't have to kill 66 million- [12:34] Which is? What's the policy? [12:35] What's the policy? [12:36] Wait a minute, what do you mean what is the policy? [12:37] What is the policy? [12:38] Do you ask me what I'm advocating for? [12:39] No, what is the policy that leads to that? [12:40] There is no policy for that. [12:41] I'm telling you what I'm advocating for. [12:42] Okay, so you want the left to argue for a policy that doesn't exist? [12:45] That can't lead to that? [12:46] There's no policy that leads to egalitarianism? [12:47] H.R. 40 does exist! [12:48] What are you talking about? [12:49] You just said there's no policy that leads to the equitable or egalitarian relationship. [12:52] I said I want to see that created. [12:57] They need to actually, the Democratic Party in this case, that's what we're talking about, [13:00] they would actually need to show me that they're going to create and initiate that H.R. 40 task force [13:04] to examine the last- [13:05] Do you know how much money black people lost from slavery? [13:07] How much? How much? [13:08] Over $286 billion free labor was extracted from black folks. [13:11] It shouldn't matter whether you gays, straight- [13:13] And how much do Republicans talk about it? [13:15] Am I talking about Republicans? [13:16] Okay. [13:17] What is the claim? [13:18] No, that's true, that's true. [13:19] So stop talking about Republicans. [13:20] No, the reason I ask- [13:21] No, no, stop. [13:22] I agree. [13:23] The reason I ask is because the left- [13:24] How much does the left talk about that? [13:25] How much does the left talk about it? [13:26] A lot. [13:27] Republicans don't talk about it, but the left does, but you want to talk about the left [13:29] being bad at it. [13:30] If my claim is the left cares more, the right don't belong in this conversation. [13:34] Okay, let me show you an issue where the- [13:35] Stop doing that. [13:36] Okay, let me show you an issue where the left does care more about black people. [13:38] Show me. [13:39] Did Joe Biden say he wanted a gay VP or did he say he wanted a black VP? [13:42] He said, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. [13:44] Okay, that's what he said. [13:45] Was that the question I asked? [13:46] Wait, wait, wait. [13:47] Which is racist as hell. [13:48] Can I appeal to the moderator? [13:49] Was that the question I asked? [13:50] That was not the question. [13:51] Okay, can you answer the question? [13:52] He said he wanted a woman, a black woman VP. [13:54] He said he wanted a gay Supreme Court member or did he say he wanted a black Supreme Court [13:59] member? [14:00] I don't remember what he said. [14:01] Oh, okay. [14:02] Ketanji Jackson Brown is black guys? [14:04] Just to let you know. [14:05] Oh, you mean the same Ketanji Jackson Brown that couldn't properly identify what a woman [14:07] is? [14:08] The same Ketanji Brown called the DEI hire? [14:09] Answer that. [14:10] What is a woman? [14:11] What is a woman? [14:12] In this society- [14:13] What is a woman? [14:14] As someone who attributes to feminine values, but that's how we describe it. [14:17] That's bullshit. [14:18] What is a woman? [14:19] I just explained it. [14:20] I actually answered your question. [14:21] No, you gave it- [14:22] Wait, are we talking about women or are we talking about black Americans? [14:24] What is it? [14:25] Okay, so we're not. [14:26] You're moving on because you can't answer my questions. [14:27] No, I answered it. [14:28] Okay. [14:29] No, you didn't. [14:30] I did. [14:31] Is Ketanji Jackson Brown a black American that Joe Biden advocated for while the right [14:33] continue to condemn her? [14:34] 100%. [14:35] Okay, so where are the- [14:36] Condemn her where? [14:37] Condemn her for where? [14:38] Carol or DEI hire? [14:40] I don't think she's a DEI hire. [14:41] Oh, you don't know about that one, right? [14:42] No, I know about that. [14:43] I don't like any of the rulings she's given so far, but I mean, hey, I wouldn't- [14:46] You don't like any of the rulings? [14:47] No. [14:48] None of the rulings. [14:49] Even the one that went with Amy Coney Barrett. [14:50] Didn't she vote against extending birth or- [14:53] Didn't she vote against keeping birthright citizenship just to people that are not- [14:58] Yeah, she kept the precedent. [15:00] That's good. [15:01] That's good. [15:02] Because you know what- [15:03] She went against the original intended doctrine. [15:04] You know what Trump did to black Americans? [15:06] He started drawing a delineation between Haitians and black Americans and Somalis and he started condemning [15:11] those people. [15:12] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. [15:13] Do not do that. [15:14] Okay, what? [15:15] Because a black African is not a black American. [15:16] Okay, so Africans that come to America aren't black Americans? [15:18] No, if African- [15:19] Martin Luther King said this. [15:20] Have you ever read his book, Where Do We Go From Here? [15:22] published in 1967? [15:23] That doesn't answer the question. [15:24] Yes, it does. [15:25] You don't care. [15:26] Wait, wait, wait, wait. [15:27] Martin Luther King was also a Marxist that you don't like? [15:28] No, wait, that's a lot. [15:29] Was he? [15:30] Yeah, he was. [15:31] He was. [15:32] Okay, then why did he say this? [15:33] Why did he say this in his Where Do We Go From Here speech in 1967? [15:34] Why did he say, don't think you're having a bind today. [15:36] I'm not talking about communism. [15:37] Yes, I read communism. [15:38] Stop. [15:39] Am I going to argue against Martin Luther King's impersonator or am I going to argue against [15:41] some actual topic? [15:42] You just lied on him. [15:43] You just lied on him. [15:44] I did not argue. [15:45] I did not lie on him. [15:46] Okay, then let me respond. [15:47] What did he say was the greatest threat? [15:48] Stop. [15:49] What did he say was the greatest threat to black Americans? [15:50] What did he say was the greatest threat? [15:51] Yes. [15:52] Because he just told a blatant lie on Martin Luther King Jr. [15:53] That I will not stand for. [15:54] Go for it. [15:55] Martin Luther King said in 1967, and where do we go from here's speech? [15:57] Don't think you have me in a bind today because I'm not talking about communism. [16:00] Yes, I read communist manifesto in Das Kapital many years ago, but I saw that Marx did [16:05] not follow Hegel enough. [16:06] He borrowed his dialectics. [16:07] Then he went to Hegel. [16:09] And Marx didn't understand and communism didn't understand. [16:12] He said, flat out, I have to reject that. [16:13] Fact check it. [16:14] Go pull the speech. [16:15] So where's the pro-capitalist speech in that? [16:17] I'm very pro-capitalist. [16:18] I'm not pro-Marxism. [16:19] That's why I don't care about whatever you want to quote with. [16:22] All right, let him finish. [16:23] Let him finish. [16:24] You will not lie on a historical figure that did more for black people than anybody else. [16:26] Go for it. [16:27] Quote it then. [16:28] What he said was, I have to reject Marx. [16:30] The solution to mankind's problem is found neither in the thesis of communism nor its antithesis [16:35] of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis. [16:36] Okay. [16:37] A higher synthesis that combines the truths of both. [16:39] So you will not call Martin Luther King a Marxist sitting across this table from me. [16:41] It's not happening. [16:42] I don't care. [16:43] I don't really care if you want to- [16:44] So can you admit you lied? [16:45] Yeah, sure. [16:46] I didn't lie. [16:47] You said he was a Marxist. [16:48] You lied. [16:49] He inspired a lot. [16:50] Can you admit that you lied? [16:51] Sure. [16:52] Thank you. [16:53] Thank you. [16:54] You're welcome. [16:55] Now we can continue the conversation. [16:56] Okay, so where are the black- [16:57] Capital one of my heroes. [16:58] I ain't going for it. [16:59] It's not your hero. [17:00] He's one of my heroes. [17:01] What? [17:02] You don't care about anything he preaches. [17:04] I studied Martin Luther King since I was eight years old. [17:06] Yeah? [17:07] If anybody at this table care about Martin Luther King, it's me. [17:09] I promise you. [17:10] Did he care about gay Americans? [17:11] He didn't speak on them. [17:12] Oh, so you don't think he cared about it? [17:13] You don't think there's no rights ever talked about- [17:14] He didn't speak on them. [17:15] Go ahead and bring a buyer at Rustin next. [17:16] I know this is where you're going. [17:17] I don't- No, I don't care about- [17:18] No, I don't care about quotes or figures. [17:19] I care about actual policies. [17:20] I do. [17:21] So you don't care about quotes- [17:22] Oh, so you care about saying in the past. [17:23] What debate is this we at, Jack? [17:24] What are we doing here? [17:25] You don't care about policies? [17:26] I'm telling you we need a policy to give my people a check. [17:28] What's the policy? [17:29] What's the policy? [17:30] Well, hey, let's start with- [17:31] Let's start with that. [17:32] What? [17:33] Let's start with that. [17:34] Let's start with having the Democrats held accountable for the fact that they've kept [17:36] HR 40 in committee status for decades. [17:38] Let's start with that. [17:39] Okay, explain HR 40 to me. [17:40] It is a study that is to be authorized to study the effects of Jim Crow segregation and [17:46] slavery, in short. [17:47] So you think that the best move for the Democrats is to go back to Jim Crow and segregation to revisit [17:52] those things? [17:53] Is that not what he just said, that the Democrats should go to the committee and get it all [17:57] through? [17:58] That's what you think? [17:59] That's the best strategy? [18:00] That is not what I said. [18:01] I didn't say go back to Jim Crow. [18:02] I said study the effects and use that to document, to calculate the amount of money- [18:06] So again, to my question, you think that's the best thing? [18:08] You think that's the best thing that they should do for black Americans? [18:10] It's one of the best things. [18:11] You damn snippy. [18:12] Why did you- [18:13] The Democrats have always had, historically, since the 60s, more of a black voter base than Republicans. [18:19] Is that right or wrong? [18:20] Yes. [18:21] So why are you lying? [18:22] I'm not lying. [18:23] I'm not you. [18:24] Wait, let me finish. [18:25] He has gone on a tie right for a little while. [18:26] Yeah, let him speak. [18:27] Okay. [18:28] Let's be honest. [18:29] I'm the kind of American that believes what's good for all Americans is good for black Americans. [18:31] I don't want a bill from the Democrat party that says, specifically 50% African Americans, [18:36] you get this. [18:37] Specifically 40%, you get this. [18:38] Hey, Jim Crow segregation, we followed your family tree from this slave owner. [18:42] So you get this. [18:43] This is a meaningless statement that only exists to segregate us more and pin us against each [18:47] other. [18:48] Because you don't care about Americans. [18:49] You don't care about black Americans. [18:50] You don't care about gay people. [18:51] You care about whatever your insane voting rhetoric is that doesn't matter to people at [18:57] large. [18:58] Black people don't want to be singled out by- [18:59] It don't matter. [19:00] We're black people not singled out in this for 244 years. [19:02] And look how good that did. [19:03] Look how good that did. [19:04] Thank you. [19:05] We couldn't even go with it. [19:06] Austin, we're going to have to pause. [19:08] We're going to have to pause. [19:09] You've been voted out by the majority. [19:10] Thank you so much. [19:11] I love being singled out. [19:12] Yeah. [19:14] If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. [19:19] How are you? [19:24] Good to see you. [19:25] I have been dying to debate you because you've had a lot to say about trans women in sports. [19:29] So I hope one day you and I can have that conversation. [19:31] But specifically to this, my first question to you is who on the left are we really talking [19:37] about? [19:38] Because I'm black and I'm trans. [19:39] So I am a part of the LGBTQ plus community. [19:42] And as much as I hate to admit it, I agree with a lot that you said, especially about [19:46] the structural hierarchy, especially about how LGBTQ plus people are treated, especially [19:51] within the black community. [19:52] Because I think there's a hierarchy within the black community. [19:54] You as a black cis person sit in a higher place of privilege than I as a black trans person. [19:58] Now, that doesn't mean that you don't have your issues with the system and whatnot like [20:03] that. [20:04] And so tell me, first of all, who on the left are we talking about? [20:07] Because we have socialists. [20:08] We have the establishment. [20:10] Okay. [20:11] That's a good point. [20:12] I'm talking about the Democratic establishment. [20:14] So what I mean is the current. [20:15] Well, let's just take, for example, the current congressional classes going on. [20:18] Well, not current, but the congressional classes. [20:20] So everybody that's been in Congress for the past, we can just say 40, 50 years. [20:23] Just narrow it to that. [20:24] Anyone that occupies a seat that identifies as a Democrat, because you're right. [20:27] Republicans have a coalition. [20:28] I'm still would be a part of the coalition, you know, Republican coalition, even though [20:31] I do lean into Christian populism more than anything. [20:33] Got it. [20:34] So, and again, like I said, I'm just talking about the speed and efficiency at which issues [20:38] that people within your community, they can address like that. [20:41] Like I said, it took 55 years or 58 years in total from the first documented struggle of [20:45] the LGBTQIA community in this country to y'alls having same sex marriage legalized. [20:49] And now we have, I mean, there's controversy around that because I know Ennis Cantor and [20:52] I forget Royce White, they just declared for the women. [20:55] Oh, don't get me started on that. [20:56] Right. [20:57] But you see what I'm saying? [20:58] And that's crazy to me because the reason they're able to do that is because the WNBA [21:02] has a loose definition of what a woman actually is. [21:04] I disagree with that because if we even want to talk about the WNBA, let's talk about [21:09] the pay gap of the WNBA. [21:11] The NBA players make $11.7 million more than the WNBA players. [21:15] People did not start really caring about the WNBA until they started talking about [21:19] trans people playing in sports, especially trans women. [21:21] They weren't talking about, hold on, hold on. [21:23] No, don't you do that. [21:24] Do not interrupt a black trans woman when she's speaking. [21:28] Do not interrupt a black trans woman when she's speaking. [21:31] Because here's the thing. [21:32] When Brittany Reiner was arrested, I think that may have gotten more attention [21:35] or whatnot. [21:36] I'm a Brittany Griner friend. [21:37] Brittany Griner, excuse me. [21:38] Yeah, for sure. [21:39] Yeah. [21:40] And so I think it's un... [21:41] But we ain't gonna sit on the WNBA because I'm a fan. [21:44] I'm a fan of the WNBA. [21:45] Okay. [21:46] And again, my twin sister plays basketball and coaches. [21:48] Okay. [21:49] So we're not doing that. [21:50] Like, and the pay gap exists. [21:51] I'm just, I'm not gonna lie. [21:52] The WNBA is not quite as entertaining as the NBA because... [21:55] And that's only based around the fact that most of the women, they can't dunk. [21:58] So you gotta really be a true fan of the game of basketball to appreciate the WNBA. [22:01] But Royce White... [22:02] Most people ain't really, you know what I'm saying? [22:03] But the thing with Royce White, I find it so ironic that, first of all, [22:06] he's a three-time politician loser, number one. [22:10] Yes. [22:11] Number two, on top of that, he's demeaning black trans women. [22:15] Okay. [22:16] And this is what really bothers me. [22:17] And this is what really irks me. [22:19] Because typically the conversation around trans people playing in sports has been white trans people. [22:23] Leah Thomas, white trans woman. [22:25] Yeah. [22:26] So for me, as a black trans person, my community being brought in to something that we really didn't have anything to do with [22:33] is what's really harmful to the narrative. [22:35] And here's the thing. [22:37] We have a lot of... [22:39] Would you agree that we have a lot of work to do in the black community as a whole as far as being able to uplift each other? [22:46] Yeah. [22:47] I mean, 100%. [22:48] I think black people were more... [22:49] We were most connected. [22:50] And this is a terrible thing to say, but it's the actual truth. [22:52] We were the most tightly knit when we were segregated. [22:55] And when the more free that we got, the more we left... [22:57] I mean, you can just look at the numbers. [22:58] The more that we escaped from Jim Crow when we combated it, we started to see a very huge amount of disunity [23:03] within the black nuclear family, within the black communities in general. [23:06] The black dollar, for example, only circulates, I think, one and a half times at most within the black community. [23:09] I think that just flat out is crazy. [23:11] I think that we need to restrengthen the core, which is... [23:15] And of course, we're going to disagree, but I think we need to strengthen the nuclear family. [23:18] I think we need to move into, you know, re-promoting multi-generational families, [23:21] the same as our Hispanic brothers and sisters do, [23:23] same as our Asian brothers and sisters do, white Americans do. [23:26] We have a family crisis in the black community. [23:28] But I... [23:29] We don't treat each other like family. [23:30] I argue that families are growing. [23:32] There are many different types of families, you know what I mean? [23:34] Sure. [23:35] And so we have to be willing to be open to all, for the most part. [23:38] I think it is very challenging to have to admit this out loud, but white supremacy is what's keeping us apart. [23:48] Because you've become the black conservative and I am the black liberal. [23:52] And here's the thing. [23:53] No, no, I'm bringing it up for a point. [23:54] I need you to listen to me. [23:55] Go ahead. [23:56] I need you to actually listen. [23:57] Sure. [23:58] Because I've listened to a lot of the things that you've said, especially about trans people playing in sports. [24:02] And they do affect me because this is something that's big in my platform. [24:05] And so for me, when I see the typical black conservative, all I think about is, hmm, they know how to grift us. [24:14] Well, you see, I ain't no grift. [24:15] They know how to pull us. [24:16] They know how to pull us and they know how to. [24:17] Yeah, but you see, I ain't no grift. [24:18] Well, let me ask you. [24:19] Have you benefited from being a black conservative? [24:22] Have you benefited from it? [24:23] Because let me tell you something. [24:25] I saw that video of you and the Nazi and how you were yelling and screaming. [24:29] I saw that video. [24:30] I don't think you deserve that. [24:32] But I found it so interesting that your white co-host sat there while you were being disrespected. [24:37] Ah, whoa, whoa, whoa. [24:38] And I'm going to say, oh, yes, yes. [24:39] No, you didn't sit there. [24:40] Wait, stop, stop, stop. [24:41] From what I could see. [24:42] Okay, you didn't see everything. [24:43] Here's the thing. [24:44] But here's the thing. [24:45] Wait, wait, wait. [24:46] Don't talk over each other. [24:48] I'm making a point. [24:49] I'm just only making a point. [24:50] I will let you clear the air. [24:51] Austin, just let her finish your point. [24:52] Yeah, I will let you clear the air. [24:54] I'm making a point here from the footage that I saw. [24:56] Now, I'm not saying that he may not have done anything, because I don't know about that. [25:00] But from the footage that we saw on the internet or whatnot, it looks like he was sitting there. [25:04] And that was the thing about some of these white liberals who don't always step up. [25:09] Now, the thing is, well, white liberals and black conservatives. [25:11] He didn't just cook. [25:12] He didn't just cook. [25:13] Okay, okay. [25:14] But what white liberals and black conservatives, that's a very interesting take, because we [25:20] advocate for certain things around blackness and how we don't want whiteness to come in and control us. [25:26] But then when you have white liberals who are more on my side, who care more about my rights than you as a black conservative, come in and defend me, then it's like a problem. [25:35] It's like a topsy-turvy thing, because I don't know if I should feel sorry for you as a black person, or should I step away from you? [25:41] Because black conservatives typically attract this type of behavior from Nazis. [25:46] When you spew rhetoric that is harmful, that is all I'm saying. [25:52] Please go ahead and make your point. [25:53] I'm listening. [25:54] One, David Mauricio was only sitting back watching me yell at Jake Lane because he just cooked his Nazi ass at a debate five minutes. [26:00] I was there. [26:01] People sitting here were there at that debate. [26:04] So you ain't gonna come at my co-host like that. [26:05] I'm not going for that. [26:06] David Mauricio. [26:07] I could come at whoever I want to. [26:08] I could say whatever I want. [26:09] Yeah, but if I was there and you watched that, I know what happened to you. [26:11] I could say whatever I want. [26:12] That don't mean it gotta be true either. [26:13] But respectfully, do not talk to me like that, because I can come for whoever I want to. [26:16] That's cool, but you just told a lie though. [26:17] And I gotta defend my partner. [26:18] It's not a lie. [26:19] I literally just told you. [26:20] I just told you this is what I saw. [26:22] Okay. [26:23] What I saw. [26:24] It's not a lie. [26:25] It's not a lie. [26:26] No, please don't say lie. [26:27] You don't have to say lie. [26:28] Go ahead. [26:29] I'm gonna say what happened. [26:31] David was there. [26:32] He had already cooked Jake Lane in a debate 15 minutes before. [26:35] No one at that tour was a fan of Jake Lane's rhetoric. [26:38] Absolutely. [26:39] Who? [26:40] How you gonna tell me that I was there? [26:41] No, I'm agreeing with you. [26:42] Right. [26:43] So what I'm saying is that you asked me a question. [26:45] You said, did I benefit from what part of it? [26:47] Did I benefit from being a black conservative? [26:49] From being a black conservative on the other side, because look how they did Candace Owens. [26:52] When they were done with her, they kicked her to the side. [26:55] And so for me, I want to know, are you benefiting from it as like a black conservative? [27:00] This is an important question, because I've been dying to ask somebody who's willing to have the conversation. [27:04] I mean, people tell me, people on the right, what I call the radical right, they don't think I'm a conservative. [27:08] A lot of them call me, go look at my Instagram comments. [27:10] A lot of them call me a Marxist in disguise. [27:12] Oh, you're a Marxist. [27:13] I mean, y'all know I ain't lying. [27:16] Yeah. [27:17] So you're easily disposable. [27:18] Would you agree with that? [27:19] Hell no. [27:20] I'm indispensable. [27:21] Okay. [27:22] Let me tell you something. [27:23] Before I'm black anything, before I'm a Republican, I'm a Christian. [27:26] Before I'm black, I'm a Christian. [27:28] Before I'm anything else, I'm a servant of the living God. [27:30] Okay. [27:31] So I'm indisposable to nobody. [27:32] As long as he keep me on the serve, I ain't going nowhere. [27:34] And there are trans people who are also Christian as well, too. [27:37] So I find it interesting that we have a lot alike. [27:40] We're a lot alike. [27:41] But I think sometimes the rhetoric that you uphold, I'm not going to say it better. [27:46] Such as what? [27:47] Uphold a lot of your viewpoints, especially around trans women playing in sports. [27:50] You want to talk about... [27:51] It's funny because, again, I saw the video first, and then you turned around and you made another video about trans women playing in sports or whatnot. [27:58] It's always about biological... [27:59] Yeah, they shouldn't. [28:00] I think they just should. [28:01] Why would I... [28:02] Okay, so... [28:03] I think they should. [28:04] Let me break this down for you. [28:05] Go ahead. [28:06] My twin sister is 5'9", 5'10", about 100... [28:08] Are y'all identical or fraternal? [28:09] It's always a fraternal when it's a boy and a girl. [28:11] Got it. [28:12] My twin sister might be a good buck 30, 35 in her prime when she's playing basketball. [28:16] I would have a serious problem with her playing against somebody my size and my weight. [28:19] And I'm 6'2", good damn 175. [28:22] Yeah. [28:23] Yeah. [28:24] So, no. [28:25] There are... [28:26] And the amount of testosterone in an adult biological male will absolutely outperform the average adult biological female, especially in the game of basketball, football, whatever. [28:33] There are rules and stipulations. [28:34] I have to pause here because we're out of time on this plane. [28:36] There are rules and stipulations in place that trans women have to meet certain levels to be able to play in the first place. [28:41] There's only less than 10 trans athletes, which is only 0.002% of the population of trans women, which is 1%. [28:47] Thank you. [28:48] Yes, thank you. [28:49] We got to pause. [28:51] Thank you. [28:52] This is the moment I am in the last minute. [28:53] I was in the last minute. [28:54] I was in the last minute. [28:56] I was in the last minute. [28:57] I was in the last minute. [28:58] But you're in the last minute. [28:59] You're in the last minute. [29:00] But your credit score doesn't have to stay stuck. [29:01] I remember how overwhelmed I felt trying to fix my credit. [29:02] It felt like a catch 22 where you need credit to build credit. [29:03] Then I found Kickoff. [29:04] Signing up took minutes on my phone with no credit check and no hidden fees. [29:08] For users with credit under 600, they see an average growth of 86 points. [29:13] Kickoff helps you score big when it comes to credit. [29:15] Plan start at just $5 a month with zero interest. [29:18] Start building credit with kickoff today and get your first month for as little as $1. [29:22] That's 80% off the normal price when you go to getkickoff.com slash surrounded today. [29:28] That's kickoff without the C, get K-I-K-O-F-F dot com slash surrounded. [29:46] Thank you to Kickoff for sponsoring this episode. [29:48] Now let's get back to the show. [29:50] My next surrounded claim is, elective abortion is the greatest moral failure of modern America. [29:56] If you'd like to be the first debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. [30:07] Tell me about your actual claim because you said that it's the most unjust or unfair. [30:13] You mentioned morals. [30:15] What do you mean by your statement? [30:16] I said that elective abortion is the greatest moral failure of modern America, meaning that [30:21] I'm going to confine the claim here. [30:22] I'm speaking of two consenting adults that are willing to engage in sex, right? [30:26] That's how children are created. [30:28] 66 million children were killed as a result of abortion since the passing of Roe versus Wade. [30:33] So those deaths didn't have to happen if contraception would have been used. [30:39] 52% of women that got an abortion reported not using contraception within the month that [30:45] they became pregnant. [30:46] Condoms have a 2% failure rate when used properly. [30:49] The male condoms have a 13% failure rate on average with consistent use. [30:53] Therefore, electively deciding to terminate what is an innocent life is a moral failure. [30:58] Ooh, moral. [30:59] Whose morals? [31:01] Objective morals. [31:03] Whose objective morals? [31:04] God's. [31:05] Oh, so it's rooted in Christianity. [31:07] Oh, of course. [31:08] Ultimately, because biology tells us what a person is. [31:11] We have to move into the realm of philosophy to tell us how that thing ought to be treated. [31:15] Do you know the actual trend in Christianity since 1990 until 2020, uh, 2017? [31:22] What do you, I don't care about trends. [31:24] I care about what the actual book says. [31:24] Yeah, don't worry, I got you. [31:25] Pew Research Center shows in 2025 that there has been a dramatic drop in Christianity. [31:30] People identifying as Christians going from 90% to 62%, right? [31:36] More people are shifting towards being either not religious or not actually identifying as [31:41] anything. [31:42] So again, when you talk about Christianity and you talk about our country, why should, [31:45] why should we actually stick to something where people aren't even interested in the [31:49] religion anymore? [31:50] Well, first of all, let's return to first principles. [31:51] I'm not here to debate my religion. [31:52] I'm telling you what, what, what my religion is ultimately grounded in. [31:55] So let's go back to first principles. [31:56] I'm here to discuss that elective abortion is the greatest moral failure of modern America. [31:59] So let me ask you a question. [32:00] Is it wrong to terminate an innocent life? [32:02] No, I'm not deflecting. [32:02] I'm going back to first principles. [32:04] Your claim is rooted in Christianity. [32:06] Ultimately, philosophically it is. [32:07] But you're speaking for the country, but the country is saying Christianity doesn't speak for us. [32:11] First of all, more than half of the United States of America's citizens identify as Christian, [32:14] especially the black community. [32:15] So, and as long as in God, we trust is still on our mind, which is a government instrument. [32:18] It will always be, there will always be some religious underpinning in this country. [32:21] You know what's interesting to me? [32:21] So wait a minute. [32:22] No, no, no, no, no. [32:22] I've got a question. [32:23] Let's go back. [32:24] First principles. [32:24] Is it, because you didn't answer this. [32:26] Is it wrong to kill an innocent person? [32:29] Fetus isn't a person. [32:31] What does fetus mean in Latin? [32:32] The actual embryo is not a pressure. [32:33] What does fetus mean in Latin? [32:35] You putting moral value on something does nothing for me. [32:38] You're actually speaking about things that are still moral. [32:41] What does fetus mean? [32:42] What does fetus mean in Latin? [32:42] It means little human being. [32:44] Okay. [32:44] That's what it means. [32:45] So is Latin a dead language? [32:47] No, it's not. [32:48] Oh, it literally is. [32:49] Latin's literally a dead language. [32:51] You're circling back to something. [32:52] No, no, no. [32:53] That's fine. [32:53] No, it's not fine. [32:54] It is not fine. [32:54] Why is it that Christian men always want to talk about abortion? [32:57] It is not fine. [32:59] It is not fine. [32:59] How many uteruses do you have? [33:01] I have a son. [33:02] How many uteruses do you have? [33:03] I have a son. [33:04] A beautiful sister. [33:05] So you have no uteruses, right? [33:07] My sisters do. [33:08] My mother does. [33:08] Why is it that men on the right want to tell women that they can or cannot do with their [33:13] body? [33:13] So we get he refused to answer my question. [33:14] We get that, right? [33:15] The question was, is it wrong to terminate an innocent life? [33:17] The closest women are to death. [33:18] Is it not? [33:18] Wait, you guys got to let each other speak because I can't hear anything. [33:21] You're right. [33:22] Paris, forgive me. [33:22] So let me restart. [33:24] I asked you, is it wrong to terminate an innocent life? [33:26] You then tried to remove the humanity of a fetus, which is biologically a human organism. [33:31] So you're comfortable with stripping away based on some, not some arbitrary finding that [33:36] you're saying that essentially that a fetus is undeserving of protection. [33:40] I'm saying to you that any human being or member of the human species, regardless of [33:44] the stage of development they're in, I'm not monologuing, I'm telling you what it is. [33:47] So directly, it's not up to me. [33:50] It's up to women whether or not they actually allow that fetus to continue to actually be [33:54] a parasite inside of them and grow. [33:56] But they're not identified as a parasite. [33:57] A fetus is not identified as a parasite, by the way, guys. [33:59] Why don't you say that the ultimate goal of, or like not, or outlawing abortion or, you [34:04] know, the issue is. [34:05] So a fetus is a parasite, come on. [34:06] What's the scientific. [34:07] That you want to actually make sure that as many innocent lives are born. [34:09] What is the evidence? [34:10] I have a question. [34:11] What's your ultimate goal? [34:12] Answer this question. [34:13] Why are you dodging? [34:14] I'm not dodging. [34:14] I'm forcing you back to first principles. [34:16] You won't actually directly answer my question. [34:18] No, no, no. [34:18] You didn't. [34:18] Do you want to save innocent lives? [34:20] Absolutely. [34:21] Okay, so you do. [34:21] What's more innocent than an unborn child? [34:22] Okay, perfect. [34:23] Are you willing to do whatever's possible to save innocent lives? [34:26] Are you willing to strip, are you willing to conceive? [34:27] Give me a second to cook on this one. [34:29] If you really, wait, wait, wait. [34:30] Half the flags are raised. [34:31] Are you cooking? [34:32] Right here. [34:32] They whooped you out of here earlier. [34:33] Right here. [34:33] Right here. [34:34] If you want to actually save innocent lives. [34:36] Is a human being, is a fetus a human. [34:37] If you want to save innocent lives, why don't you actually advocate for mandatory vasectomies? [34:42] Why would I advocate for mandatory vasectomies? [34:43] Easy. [34:43] I advocate for contraception. [34:44] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. [34:45] Women and men today. [34:46] Wait, wait, wait, wait. [34:46] Stop. [34:46] Stop. [34:47] No, no, no. [34:47] So you're going to ask me a question that you don't want me to answer. [34:49] Can I appeal to the moderator here for a second? [34:51] Can I at least have the floor to answer the question? [34:52] I appeal to contraception. [34:53] I just told you, 52% of women that got elective abortions got them because they reported not [34:58] using contraception. [34:59] Condoms have a 2% failure rate, Santana. [35:02] And you know what has a 99% effective rate? [35:05] Vasectomies. [35:06] Again, mandatory vasectomies. [35:07] So you just want to attack men. [35:09] So you just want to attack men. [35:10] I want to hold both sides accountable. [35:11] You want to control women's bodies. [35:13] I thought I was supposed to be rattled here. [35:14] Wait, how is that? [35:14] How is that holding everyone accountable when you're forcing a woman to have a baby? [35:19] Does it not, I'm sorry, it's like two to tango, you all right? [35:22] My son didn't come into being by himself. [35:23] You're literally saying a woman has to actually have a baby, which women are closest to death [35:28] while they are actually pregnant. [35:30] I'm saying that all of that is preventable, but it's by three words. [35:33] Wrap it up. [35:34] You're just meat watching. [35:35] You're meat watching. [35:36] I advocate. [35:37] All right, pause here. [35:38] We have to pause. [35:39] You've been voted out by the majority. [35:41] Thank you. [35:42] Please let each other speak, though. [35:45] We cannot understand you guys. [35:47] In the words of Magic Johnson, that's what you call a he. [35:49] If you would like to be the next debater, please get to that chair in three, two, one. [35:56] Okay, now this could take a while. [35:59] I finally get my TikTok rematch. [36:01] Oh, I'm actually a little nervous for this one. [36:03] Oh, you're going to, what are we going to do? [36:04] Two for all? [36:05] Two and oh. [36:07] I thought it was a draw. [36:09] I forgot. [36:10] Yeah, so I think when you say that abortion is the greatest moral failing, I would actually [36:16] agree with you. [36:17] I actually agree with you that abortion is the greatest moral failing. [36:21] And I actually think that the way a lot of pro-lifers speak about fetuses can be very [36:25] offensive and put people who are pro-life, who would actually be a lot more pro-choice, [36:30] farther on the pro-life side when you call them parasites. [36:33] But the thing is, though... [36:34] Thank you for that, by the way. [36:35] I'm sure there's a disagreement coming right now, but... [36:37] Oh, of course. [36:38] I think, though, that abortion is the greatest moral failing because you have two worlds [36:43] here, Austin, right? [36:44] You have World A, where from, what, 1990 to 2014, we see, in abortion, about a 37% to 40% [36:54] decrease in abortions up until that time. [36:56] From 2014 to 2025, it goes up again, right? [37:01] So you have one world, right? [37:02] You have one world where people have a guaranteed, where their health care is guaranteed, they [37:08] have higher contraceptive care, higher abortion care, sex education increases. [37:13] All of these things make it so that people engage, in both sexes, in less risky sex practices [37:19] leading to less unwanted pregnancies, less abortions. [37:23] People are actually able to have the families they want and be able to take care of them, [37:27] women are more protected because they're not getting pregnant, and, you know, unfortunately [37:32] sabotaging their careers, right? [37:34] But then in World B, you have politicians playing political football with abortions, [37:39] and abortion has gone up about, what, 22% when you crunch those numbers? [37:43] And only half the time, right? [37:46] So I would need you to, like, I would need you to ask, like, which one would you prefer? [37:50] World A, where we see that people are getting the health care they need, and they're actually [37:54] getting less abortions? [37:54] Or World B, where people are unsure whether or not, even if they want to have the baby, [37:59] they're not going to get adequate natal care because of the abortion? [38:02] Okay. [38:02] So you actually raised very interesting questions, because one of the largest reported reasons, [38:06] I'm glad you brought this up, by the way, one of the biggest reported reasons that women [38:09] get abortions, 74% of women, to a survey from the Guttmacher Institute, stated that they [38:14] didn't want to keep the child because of financial reasons, didn't want to be a single mother, [38:17] or that they had already had other children they had to care for. [38:19] So the ideal world for me is, again, increased contraceptive use, because all of these problems [38:25] are easily prevented. [38:26] Then you'd want the world with Roe v. Wade, Austin. [38:28] What do you mean? [38:29] Why would I want Roe v. Wade? [38:29] In World A, after the passing of Roe v. Wade, from 1990 to 2014, we saw a slow yet steady decrease [38:37] by 40%, Austin, 1.6 million to at its lowest, 600,000. [38:43] How much is that? [38:44] That's a massive reduction. [38:45] That's a massive reduction. [38:47] But no, so the question is, again- [38:48] So which, no, but the question is, Austin, which one do you prefer? [38:52] Okay, which world do you prefer? [38:53] Will we get less abortions or abortion goes up because people don't know whether or not [38:56] they're going to be able to receive health care? [38:57] Well, no, but again, what you're talking about is an economic problem. [39:00] Are you going to pick the world, Austin? [39:02] I'm going to make my own world. [39:03] That's what I, you know, that's what I- [39:04] Does that world exist? [39:05] Not yet. [39:06] Not yet, you know, I thought you were liberals. [39:08] I thought liberals believed in manifesting, speaking things into existence, you know. [39:11] I feel like that's more spiritual. [39:12] Well, you know, I don't want to get into philosophy with you quite yet. [39:15] We know where that conversation is going to go. [39:16] But I would say this, that when we look into the ideal world for me is one where the life [39:23] of the mother and her financial well-being is prioritized and the life of the child is [39:27] protected. [39:27] That's Roe v. Wade, baby. [39:28] So if that is in fact the case, I would have to go look, fact check myself to check into it. [39:33] Yeah, you could look at Pew Research. [39:34] But you could look at Gutmacher that you just cited here. [39:36] But I still, I, that still doesn't necessarily refute the claim that the termination of an [39:41] innocent life after consensual sex is still morally wrong. [39:43] And then the reason, I can't, I can't justify someone that grew up poor. [39:49] First of all, I'm going to be honest. [39:50] It costs $300,000 on average, around $300,000. [39:53] The fact check is going to say about $286,000 to raise a child to age 18, not including college. [39:58] But let's be clear, if you are too poor to take care of a child, why are you having unprotected [40:03] sex? [40:04] Child support, child support, child support. [40:04] But again, but again, Austin, Roe v. Wade expands the education. [40:08] Sex education means teaching people how to put on condoms, when to put on condoms, how [40:12] to make sure that the condom success rate is at the highest it could possibly be. [40:16] Unfortunately. [40:17] That's why we saw not only decreased abortions, but decreased pregnancies from that time. [40:22] Who, what? [40:22] But okay, here's, I get that. [40:24] Here's the thing. [40:24] But also, can I ask you a question really quickly, right? [40:27] We live in a world, right, where murder happens. [40:30] Yes. [40:31] And we know that there's no feasible way that we're going to stop people from murdering [40:34] each other. [40:35] Okay. [40:35] Would you prefer a world where people commit more murder or less murder? [40:40] I mean, obviously, you would prefer a world where less murder happens, but that's not realistic. [40:43] Right. [40:44] But it is realistic, though, because we've been seeing that. [40:46] We've been seeing what? [40:47] The murder rates have been decreasing nationally. [40:49] They have been. [40:50] But what I'm specifically talking about is, what race of woman specifically gets the most [40:56] abortion? [40:56] It doesn't matter. [40:57] They stop getting. [40:58] Oh, no. [40:58] Oh, no. [40:58] It absolutely doesn't matter. [40:59] No, what I'm saying is. [40:59] But answer that question. [41:01] What race of woman gets more abortion than anybody else at this point? [41:02] Which race is it, baby? [41:03] Your race. [41:04] My race. [41:04] The black race. [41:05] Why does that happen? [41:06] Financial issues. [41:08] Wait a minute, Austin. [41:09] This proves my point. [41:10] No, no, no. [41:10] What I'm saying, I'm not disagreeing with the point. [41:12] I will concede that there is a better world that we can craft. [41:15] No rational person. [41:15] No, a better world that already existed. [41:18] I don't, I would have, again, I don't know that for certain. [41:20] Yes, you do. [41:21] You cited the source that said this, Austin. [41:24] I'm agreeing with you that it is a moral failing. [41:26] Right. [41:27] It is. [41:27] That's not a disagreement. [41:28] I'm just saying I want to be certain because somebody's going to fact check me. [41:31] The comments are going to crucify me if I just willingly concede that point without [41:33] having first researched it myself, that the ideal world was one, in fact, where 600,000, [41:38] I think it was, what did you say, reduced to 600,000? [41:40] Yeah. [41:41] So if that, if we could regenerate that, I'm fine with it. [41:44] But I don't want any innocent, but I don't want any innocent life terminated, especially [41:47] when all of this is avoidable. [41:48] Of course, that's how I feel about murder victims. [41:49] But all I'm saying is this, within the confines of two consenting adults wanting to lay down [41:53] Of course. [41:53] And bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop. [41:55] What if I divide it? [41:57] If you want to do that, sexual freedom, the biggest problem with a lot of the people that [42:01] I see on the left is that they love sexual freedom without, while Austin at the same [42:05] The responsibility? [42:05] Right. [42:05] I agree with you. [42:06] I agree with you. [42:07] Because there's a reason that I only have one beautiful son. [42:10] I agree with you. [42:10] Because when the relationship with his mother didn't work out, I said, you know what, Austin [42:14] is not doing this again without being married. [42:15] I fully agree. [42:16] And I set a standard for myself and I stuck to it. [42:18] So I'm trying to understand why is it, especially the black woman, has to go, and that's not [42:23] a fault of women at all, by the way. [42:24] Because a lot of the reasons is they don't want to be single parents. [42:27] That's not a fault of black women at all. [42:28] That's our failure to not provide the environment for them. [42:31] But do you think that's more or less likely when they can't get an abortion to have these [42:35] single parent households? [42:36] It's obviously more likely when they can't afford it. [42:38] But again, I go back to, if you know you can't afford it, they can't get an abortion. [42:42] Okay, granted. [42:43] So if you know you can't get an abortion, if you know that, and you want to lay down [42:47] with Pookie and Ray Ray, tell that man, wrap it up. [42:50] How hard is that? [42:51] But Austin, I think you know that that's unfair. [42:53] What's unfair? [42:53] Sexual responsibility is unfair. [42:55] No, you can still have sexual responsibility, but that doesn't mean that the person you [42:58] with, that you think you're going to be with for long term, is going to stay when [43:00] you get pregnant. [43:01] So what are these women supposed to do? [43:03] That means you need to have most serious conversations. [43:05] This sounds like victim blaming. [43:06] No! [43:06] Wait, hold on, Austin, Austin, hold on, because we see an increase in child abuse. [43:10] We see an increase in domestic abuse because women are now tied to these people. [43:14] They wouldn't be tied to these people if they were able to get the adequate care, but not [43:17] even just them. [43:18] No, no, no, all I'm saying, all I'm saying is this, before it even gets there, right? [43:21] You're not going to tell me- [43:22] What are women supposed to do? [43:24] I'm going to tell women to do the same exact thing I tell men to do with women. [43:27] Vet better. [43:28] Before you have unprotected sex with somebody, make sure that you're either married to them [43:34] or that you are going to be in a committed relationship. [43:36] Austin, I feel like- [43:37] You need to vet the people that you're sleeping with unprotected. [43:39] Austin, I feel like- [43:39] Hold on, let me say this last point. [43:40] Okay. [43:40] Right? [43:41] Another problem that we haven't even addressed in the black community, black people have [43:44] some of the highest STD rates in this country. [43:47] I agree. [43:47] All of these things can be mitigated if both parties, men and women, sit down. [43:52] And my daddy used to say this before, and there's too many men today, and shout out to [43:56] you for this one, dad. [43:57] There are too many men today that know what a woman looks like naked, and they don't even [44:01] know her favorite color or her favorite food. [44:02] That's a problem. [44:03] Oh, I'm sorry. [44:03] That's insane. [44:05] Now, I mean, and I think if we are honest about this, can we both agree that if we start [44:11] from the baseline, from the beginning, abortions would drop? [44:15] I think I argue domestic abuse would drop. [44:17] I argue if we vetted better, all of the issues that you just described that we've been sitting [44:21] about here talking about for the last 10 to 15 minutes, I think all of this would serve [44:25] to create a more harmonious, egalitarian society where men are not walking out on their damn [44:29] responsibilities, and at the same time, women actually feel safe to carry the kids at the [44:33] minute they sleep with. [44:34] I actually feel sympathy for women. [44:35] All right, so how about this? [44:36] Pause. [44:37] You've been voted out by the majority. [44:38] Thank you so much. [44:40] That was the best. [44:41] That was great. [44:42] That was great. [44:42] That was really good. [44:43] Really good. [44:44] We might have to continue that one on TikTok. [44:45] I don't know. [44:46] If you'd like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. [44:53] She said y'all ain't got to fasten the leg. [44:55] Gotta be quicker than that. [44:56] How are you, ma'am? [44:57] I'm good. [44:58] What's your name? [44:58] Alyssa. [44:59] Austin, nice to meet you, Miss Alyssa. [45:00] So I kind of wanted to go backwards, back to the prompt. [45:04] Yes, ma'am. [45:05] I would argue that the biggest moral failing isn't allowing women to have elective abortions. [45:11] It's rather the regression of rights as a whole. [45:15] What do you mean, the regression of rights as a whole? [45:16] Yeah, so when we have progress, it feels like we're almost taking five steps forward and [45:22] ten steps back. [45:23] I want to make sure that I'm understanding what you're just following your train of thought. [45:26] You're saying that women's rights have regressed. [45:28] Yeah, and the overturning of Roe v. [45:30] Wade is very indicative of that. [45:33] When we look at the data from states that have abortion bans and restrictions, we see [45:37] an increase in maternal mortality and infant mortality. [45:40] And I think if the idea here is protecting the sanctity of human life, you don't do that [45:46] by passing legislation that ultimately harms and kills more people. [45:51] So, okay, I don't know that ultimately harms and kills more people because what I'm looking [45:55] at is a child is, first of all, is a child a human being to you? [46:00] A child is a human being. [46:01] Is a fetus a human being to you? [46:03] A fetus is a fetus. [46:04] A fetus, what does fetus mean in Latin? [46:06] So we can argue semantics. [46:08] No, it's not semantics. [46:09] That's a very, that's a definition. [46:11] What does fetus mean in Latin? [46:13] It means little human being. [46:15] The reason that that term was described is because it's exactly what it is. [46:17] All it's describing is a human being at an early stage of development. [46:20] When that same embryo develops into a fetus, it is the same human organism. [46:25] Nothing about the organism changes except the fact that new abilities are added to that [46:28] organism, such as sentience, consciousness, all of that. [46:32] So it is a human being, fundamentally. [46:35] And if I can't just say I want to protect women while also not recognizing that that [46:39] individual organism that is using her body for nine months, there was no point at any [46:44] point in my son's early development that you would get me to say he's not a human. [46:47] From the time that I knew his mother was pregnant, my son was a human being. [46:51] And it became my job as his daddy to protect him. [46:53] And I say that to my niece. [46:55] But this becomes a conversation about rights then, right? [46:59] Absolutely. [46:59] You're stating that a fetus's right to life should take precedence over a woman's right [47:03] to bodily autonomy. [47:04] No, no. [47:04] That is what you're saying. [47:05] No, I'm saying that her autonomy comes into, is not in question. [47:10] But she, as a woman, when you become pregnant, you develop a specialized obligation to another [47:15] organism. [47:16] That's what happens. [47:17] When a mother is carrying a fetus in her body, when I was in my mother's stomach, she carried [47:20] a special obligation to protect me because I was inside of her body. [47:25] Yes, but I am still a separate organism. [47:28] Can we agree to that? [47:29] That's fine. [47:30] But the rights of the host trump the rights of the fetus every time. [47:34] And when we are looking at the data, states that have abortion bans and restrictions have [47:38] higher rates of maternal mortality and infant mortality. [47:41] I would need to investigate. [47:41] So if the idea here is, again, protecting the sanctity of human life, why are we supporting [47:46] legislation that's ultimately causing infants to suffer? [47:50] When you say ultimately, how is, okay, how is an abortion ban causing, wait a minute, [47:54] because you said something very key. [47:55] How is an abortion ban causing infants to suffer? [47:57] Well, yeah. [47:58] So if we look at states like Texas that don't have an exception for fetal abnormalities, [48:04] those fetuses and those pregnancies are being forced to be carried to term when they could [48:08] have been terminated. [48:09] That's a little, that's a little different because fetal abnormalities, but see, I'm talking [48:12] about when we get, remember, I'm talking about elective abortions. [48:14] Yeah. [48:15] So we can't, I'm not talking about something where the life of the mother is in question, [48:18] a victim of or where the health of the embryo of the mother is in question. [48:21] That, that's a separate category. [48:22] But abortions over. [48:23] And by the way, that only affects less than 6% of the population. [48:26] Universal healthcare, affordable education, and affordable housing. [48:28] Stop, stop, stop, hold on, hold on. [48:29] How much does a pack of condoms cost in this country? [48:31] About $10 on a bad day. [48:33] If you want the Trojan Magnum, it's about $10, $10, $12. [48:36] Okay. [48:36] So if you know you two poor to raise a kid up, I told y'all that it costs $286,000 at [48:41] least to get a kid at age 18. [48:42] If you don't want them problems, wrap it up until the man you sleep with the rep. [48:45] How hard is that? [48:45] Wait, yeah, I don't disagree. [48:46] Everybody should be having safe sex. [48:46] So then we don't have to disagree. [48:48] Wait, but, but consequences happen, right? [48:50] Even if you are doing everything the exact right way, you can still get pregnant. [48:54] 2% chance. [48:55] That's fine. [48:56] I reckon, what do you want to do? [48:57] It doesn't happen. [48:58] You've been voted out by the majority. [48:59] Thank you. [49:00] Very good. [49:00] Thank you. [49:01] Very good. [49:01] Very good. [49:02] If you'd like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, [49:09] one. [49:13] Oh, let's see if I'm randomly based this time. [49:16] We'll see. [49:17] So yeah, you talked about poor people and how they shouldn't have, I quote, raw s**t. [49:23] Why do you think poor people have raw s**t? [49:26] Because they're, because they're still going to, I mean, they're human beings. [49:29] They're going to engage in that activity regardless. [49:31] I mean, human nature. [49:32] You said, okay. [49:32] We're sinful creatures. [49:33] We kind of do things along the way. [49:34] When we look at the data, right, poor people are overrepresented in people who have abortions. [49:40] That's going to obviously more represent black people because of the history of this country. [49:44] Right? [49:44] A hundred percent. [49:45] Why do you think that is? [49:47] Restate the question. [49:49] Poor people are overrepresented in individuals who have abortions. [49:52] Yeah. [49:53] Why do you think that is? [49:54] They're overrepresented because they have gotten pregnant and they cannot afford to take care [49:57] of the child that they've created. [49:59] Okay. [49:59] So the problem here that we're seeing is, is, is multifaceted. [50:03] And I think the problem is that you point the gun at the people who are a product of [50:07] a system. [50:08] This system that we're talking about is a capitalistic system. [50:11] Okay. [50:11] So essentially what happens is when you're poor, your schools are funded by your property [50:18] taxes. [50:18] Okay. [50:19] When your schools are funded by your property taxes and it's an impoverished area, you're [50:22] going to have less literacy rates in general, right? [50:25] You're going to see a lower kind of capacity of educational capacity. [50:29] Yeah. [50:29] The average black childless country. [50:30] That's why you're going to see people on average, not only do you probably not want [50:34] to spend the extra money on contraceptives, but you don't have the literacy and the educative [50:38] facilities to, to do that. [50:40] So why do you point the issue at the individuals as if they're not a product of context? [50:44] Because we are in 2026, Zena. [50:47] And there is no way today you can tell me. [50:48] In 2026, black people are still overrepresented in impoverished. [50:51] That doesn't, that doesn't, that has nothing to do with what I'm about to say. [50:53] Okay. [50:53] What I'm saying is that black people in this country are, the average black child reads [50:57] at a fourth grade level. [50:58] The average black girl reads at a sixth grade level. [51:01] Okay. [51:01] The average U.S. citizen, regardless of race, reads at a sixth grade level. [51:04] So we do have an education problem here. [51:05] Okay. [51:06] What I'm saying is that there's no way today that you can't access this information and [51:09] know it. [51:10] So if you're not, and poor people, if you're too poor to make sure your rent is paid, make [51:15] sure you're, you know, you have food on the table and all of that, you really just [51:18] simply should not. [51:19] And I'm not pointing the gun at it. [51:21] And this has nothing to do by the way. [51:22] I'm hearing the shouldn't, right? [51:23] I understand what you're saying is that certain things shouldn't happen. [51:26] I think everyone in this room is educated and would understand that contraceptives are [51:29] a great thing. [51:31] My thing is though, is that we're not seeing the facilities in place that would prompt [51:35] someone to go ahead and look for the help, right? [51:39] Motivation comes from the ground in which you're bred. [51:42] Okay. [51:42] When someone is from a family who has come from a set of norms that's in proximity to [51:46] wealth, their cultural understanding of things, their actual inclination towards doing things [51:52] is going to be drastically different from someone who was born into cycles of generational [51:56] poverty. [51:56] That's not true. [51:57] I can give you a couple of examples. [51:58] You don't believe in nature or nurture? [52:00] I believe in nature or nurture. [52:01] Okay. [52:01] So that's what I'm talking about. [52:02] Okay. [52:02] Cool. [52:03] Ben Carson was born dirt poor. [52:05] What's one person? [52:06] We're talking about systems. [52:07] Systems don't. [52:07] Washington Carver. [52:08] Booker T Washington, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X. [52:10] Individual instances do not brand the entire system that produces poverty and then cultural [52:15] illiteracy. [52:16] You understand that, right? [52:17] You don't use individual examples to explain the trend. [52:20] No, you use individuals to see that the trend can be broken. [52:22] It's possible, but it's clearly not prompted for it. [52:25] That's why we don't see it happening at mass. [52:26] Systems work in a way where it's inputs and outputs. [52:28] So of course you're going to see some people, for example, it's like if I start Twitch streaming [52:31] tomorrow, there's a chance that I could become a millionaire. [52:34] On average, based on how things work, the system works. [52:38] That's very, very unlikely. [52:39] You're turning this into a very Marxian, the state versus Marxist. [52:42] I'm a Marxist. [52:43] Oh, I'm not a liberal. [52:44] Let me just say that to the camera. [52:45] I'm well aware. [52:45] I'm well aware. [52:46] I know who's sitting here. [52:47] Now let's talk about it. [52:48] I know, right. [52:49] The problem with Marx is that he, first of all, Marx didn't follow Hegel enough. [52:52] He took his dialectic, but he left out his idealism and his spiritualism. [52:54] And then Marx goes over to a German philosopher by the name of Feuerbach, who takes his materialism [52:59] and turns it into this system that he calls dialectical materialism, which I reject because [53:02] what Marx ignores blatantly in this conversation, his whole issue is that [53:08] it's the state against the little man, which doesn't actually work regardless of the economic [53:14] system. [53:15] Sexual freedom is not an escape from sexual responsibility, Zina. [53:19] Okay. [53:20] Marx never even addresses that. [53:21] I think you're still not addressing the point that is that systems create individuals, that [53:25] creates inclinations, actions, et cetera. [53:27] You're not addressing the fact that our system has systematically created certain populations [53:32] to be, on average, more, you know, impoverished. [53:35] And then in general, their systems- [53:36] Let me ask you this question. [53:37] Not to cut her up, but let me ask you this question. [53:39] Have we lived in an easier, have we lived in a better age where the ease to access information [53:44] is better now or anymore? [53:46] Better does not mean equitable. [53:48] And then this also does not account for the fact that- [53:49] Life has never been equal, Zina. [53:50] It's, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be. [53:52] First of all, second of all, can I answer your question though? [53:55] And second of all, it doesn't account for the fact that Roe v. Wade has been tampered [53:59] with, and with the statistics that Tashika brought up, we've noticed that because of [54:04] the way that our politics has been playing with women's bodily autonomy, we're seeing [54:08] more abortions happening, right? [54:10] So things being easier, we have more access to information, and as a result, much more [54:14] distractions, much more ads on our screens every single day. [54:19] Why do the most powerful people in our system seem to want people to, you know, pay for [54:23] people to have more of sexually illicit content in their faces all the time? [54:28] Because, because, I'll tell you why. [54:28] Things are not, I wouldn't even say things are easier. [54:30] I'll tell you why that happens. [54:31] Because the love of money is the root of all evil, and all I need to do- [54:33] A hundred percent. [54:34] All I need to do to get you to- [54:34] So why don't you blame the corporations that create the system that cause people to act [54:39] the way that they do? [54:40] Why do you not look at the mechanics of the system? [54:42] Because I don't think it's just the corporations. [54:43] I hold them accountable. [54:43] That's a huge part of it. [54:44] But it's not just the corporations. [54:46] Money is one of the things that will change your life in ways that are unimaginable. [54:50] One of the most greatest indicators of someone's difference in personality, [54:53] how they act, how they function, is going to be the class that they're in. [54:55] Because the class that you're in creates the culture that you're in. [54:58] So, okay, but before we get to economic class, we get to this one of the things- [55:01] That's the whole conversation, actually. [55:02] No, it's not. [55:03] Yes, because 70% of women who have abortions are low income. [55:07] So that's going to- [55:08] Which is what I said with the previous speaker. [55:10] Okay. [55:10] All of that is avoidable. [55:11] So wait a minute. [55:12] If you can afford- [55:12] Avoidable. [55:13] Typical- [55:13] All of that is avoidable. [55:14] Listen, before, on average, before a woman has sex, unless she's just a flat- [55:18] It's about the knowing of to get the contraceptives. [55:20] It's about the education. [55:21] Zena, what I'm saying is on a typical, if we take two random individuals, unless the [55:25] woman is an OnlyFans model or a prostitute, before she sleeps with a man, he's courted [55:29] her, he's taken her on dates, he's done something. [55:30] So if within that process, you can't find a way to go to a quickie mart, or, well, not [55:35] a quickie mart, but you can't find a way to go to a Texaco, quick trip, something, and [55:38] pick up a pack of Trojans. [55:39] It's not just about getting the Trojan. [55:41] It's about the knowing of the fact that this is super important. [55:43] It's about the trends of your culture. [55:45] We know every- [55:46] And even still- [55:47] Human beings know when you have sex, you have a chance to produce babies. [55:50] Just like when you know when you get in a car, you got a chance to get in an accident. [55:53] That's why you wear this thing called seatbelt. [55:54] Okay. [55:55] While Roe v. Wade, right, protected sex ed, right? [55:58] When we see tampering- [55:59] That's fine. [56:00] I'm all for that part. [56:00] Can I finish? [56:00] You're talking over me again, respectfully, bro. [56:03] Okay. [56:03] So- [56:03] Not really. [56:04] You are. [56:05] But anyway, when we look at sexual education in areas where property taxes are funding, [56:11] right? [56:12] Their education, right? [56:13] Maybe someone learned the pullout method, right? [56:15] Maybe somebody learned, especially in the fact that, like, you're going to have more mistrust [56:19] of your institutions when you're in an impoverished area. [56:21] Someone has less access to the literacy, sexual literacy, than someone who's going to a private [56:27] school and the daughter of, like, a congressman. [56:29] Okay. [56:29] So I'll give you this. [56:30] That particular section of Roe v. Wade where- [56:32] I'm assuming you're saying that there was a section in Roe v. Wade where sex education [56:35] was made mandatory at the federal level? [56:37] Is that- [56:38] Well, we're just- sex education provided protections not just for abortion, but also [56:41] for sexual education to push that, et cetera. [56:43] Okay. [56:44] So I would be fine with sexual education being mandatory across the country. [56:47] I wouldn't- that wouldn't- that doesn't bother you. [56:48] That sounds great, right? [56:50] So I think to- [56:51] Okay, pause. [56:52] We're out of time. [56:53] Can I finish my statement? [56:54] Yeah. [56:55] To tailor your statement, abortion is a product of a system- [57:00] Elective though. [57:00] Elective abortion. [57:01] Okay. [57:01] Yes. [57:02] But it's a product of a system that does not address the economic inequality that, for the [57:07] most part, brown and people face the brunt of. [57:10] Can you understand- can you accept that? [57:11] I mean, I know that. [57:11] That's why I'm saying, because we understand the problems, wrap it up. [57:15] I'm going back to that same principle. [57:17] Okay. [57:18] Gotta learn. [57:18] Thank you so much. [57:24] My next surrounded claim is that civil rights were won with Bibles and churches, not pronouns [57:28] and DEI. [57:29] If you would like to be the first debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. [57:37] Zippy. [57:38] It helps to be in track. [57:40] My sister ran that. [57:41] How are you? [57:41] I'm awesome. [57:41] I'm doing good. [57:42] What's your name? [57:43] I'm Gabriel. [57:43] Nice to meet you, Gabriel. [57:44] So, I think my issue with the framing of this question is more of the fact that, firstly, [57:51] DEI and pronouns, I would not argue, like, yes, of course, they didn't necessarily win [57:55] civil rights, but they are the result of civil rights that are being won. [57:59] Like, DEI is literally the actualization, like, cementing the protections of black people [58:05] and other such people in the workplace, in government, making sure that they got a place. [58:09] Who's the number one benefactor for DEI initiatives? [58:11] White women. [58:12] Right. [58:12] So, it didn't do anything for my people. [58:14] Well, it's not necessarily that it'd do anything for your people. [58:16] It's necessary. [58:17] 3% of all DEI hires in one of the last major reported studies showed that black people only [58:21] made up 3% of all DEI hires. [58:23] Over 50% were made up of white women. [58:25] Civil rights was the black, and obviously, we're talking about black civil rights. [58:29] So, you just said it. [58:32] DEI was a result, and an improperly used result, of work that was done by Martin Luther King, [58:38] Jr., Medgar Evers, A. Philip Randolph, Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., Malcolm X. [58:42] And what is the foundation of that movement? [58:44] And this is what the left loves to do. [58:46] The left loves to borrow the moral fruit of my religion, Christianity, while rejecting the root of that religion in and of itself. [58:51] And actually, I don't want to dispute at all the role of the black church, because I think the black, obviously, saying that the black church wasn't involved at all or essential to the movement would be a ridiculous claim. [59:01] But I think my issue with the framing of this would be probably that the people that were essential to the establishment of the civil rights, like MLK, Malcolm X, all of these people, they would probably be the people that today, the conservative movement or the religious movement would likely view as traitors or people that— [59:19] Another one. [59:20] Yes, because— [59:20] Malcolm X was no liberal, and Martin Luther King wasn't either. [59:23] I promise you. [59:23] Yeah, but that's my point, because the modern conservative movement and the modern religious movement, as it is, because they're kind of intertwined, unfortunately, [59:30] they kind of established that, like, especially with, like, MAGA, like, anti-Christianity, like, anti-capitalism, anything like that is considered to be, like, this big evil thing. [59:42] And we have reports, like, for example—or, like, even, like, Islamophobia is a big problem. [59:46] Like, for example, you know this. [59:47] Malcolm X was a big Muslim. [59:49] He was very much, like, very strong. [59:51] Not a liberal, not a conservative. [59:53] He was a strong leftist. [59:55] And that's an—like, he was a leftist. [59:57] So, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, the— [59:58] Malcolm X was not a leftist. [1:00:00] But that just historically is inaccurate. [1:00:02] He literally said that the liberal is the greatest enemy of black people in this country. [1:00:05] But that's the thing. [1:00:06] Those are his words, not mine. [1:00:07] So I would disagree on the use of liberal as a term for the left. [1:00:10] I would— [1:00:10] Malcolm wouldn't. [1:00:12] I'm not using his definition. [1:00:13] He said if you can vote as black people for a party that has controlled two-thirds of the House of Government, and yet they've done nothing for black Americans, and you continue to support them, you are a traitor to your race. [1:00:23] And you are a House Negro. [1:00:25] Yeah, and— [1:00:26] His words. [1:00:26] Yes, but the thing is— [1:00:27] What is the difference between the liberal party— [1:00:28] The application of that— [1:00:29] Wait a minute. What is the difference of the liberal party of the 1960s, their platform, versus today? [1:00:33] There's almost no difference. [1:00:34] Also black pastors. [1:00:35] You've been voted out by the majority. Thank you so much. [1:00:38] Thank you very much. [1:00:38] Very good. [1:00:39] If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. [1:00:45] Good. See you again. [1:00:49] Okay. I do want to clear up something that you said in your earlier conversation, that Malcolm X was never anti-capitalist. That's not true. After Malcolm X traversed through African countries, he realized that the propping up of capitalist countries can only happen if they extract values, valuable resources from colonized countries, from third-world countries, what we call them today. [1:01:12] Yeah, he identified the flaws of capitalism. [1:01:13] And he specifically said—no, he specifically said, you show me a capitalist, I show you a bloodsucker. [1:01:17] Right. [1:01:18] In nature, he was anti-capitalist, to start there. Do you recognize that? [1:01:22] No, because he identified himself as a black nationalist, which— [1:01:25] Black nationalism is not incompatible with anti-capitalism. You recognize that? [1:01:28] I— [1:01:29] Capitalism is an economic system. [1:01:30] Well, Malcolm X is never on record as self-identifying as a communist, so that's what you're engaging in— [1:01:35] We can go ahead and fact—we can fact-check it. [1:01:36] Oh, I can't wait to see that fact-check, because he said it's showing you a—saying that someone is a bloodsucker, I mean, I could tell you that politics is a combination of two words, poly, which is great for me— [1:01:43] Well, okay, how about this? What do you think capitalism is? [1:01:45] What do you mean, what do I think capitalism is? I think it's a—it's a laissez-faire free-market economy. [1:01:49] We don't have capitalism in the United States right now. We have a mixed economy. [1:01:52] What's the specific difference between capitalism and— [1:01:54] Okay, we have to focus on the claim. [1:01:56] Yeah, my claim—yeah, I don't want to talk about Malcolm X. [1:01:58] Well, I think it's important, though, because we're talking about the values of the Civil Rights Movement, where it comes from, what it supports, right? [1:02:04] This was to create an equitable society. I don't think that you can do that in a system that extracts resources from other individuals. What's funny about that? [1:02:12] Because you keep talking about extracting wealth. What was the founding principle of the Civil Rights Movement, Zena? [1:02:16] To establish an equitable society on a racial basis. Rooted in what? [1:02:20] Rooted in that value of equity. Rooted in what? [1:02:23] Equity. [1:02:24] What do you mean, rooted in— Under what organizing principles? [1:02:26] Are you trying to make me, like, conform to some objective morality to say that people should have equal rights? [1:02:30] Uh, no, I'm not trying to make you conform to it. [1:02:32] Okay, right. [1:02:33] I'm going to say that that's what the case is. [1:02:34] And I think the biggest question— [1:02:35] When Martin Luther King made the statement that all we say to America is be true to what you're saying on paper, [1:02:40] which is that somewhere I read of the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, [1:02:44] and that the greatness of America is the right to protest right, he's making a larger ontological appeal to— [1:02:49] A lot of waffling there. I'm not going to lie to you. [1:02:51] What was Martin Luther King? What was he? [1:02:52] What do you mean, what was he, a human being? [1:02:54] What was his occupation— Jesus Christ! [1:02:57] You just asked me, what was Martin Luther King's occupation? [1:02:59] What was Martin Luther King? [1:03:00] That's a better question, right? [1:03:01] He was an activist. [1:03:02] I would say he was a public speaker. [1:03:03] He was a Baptist preacher. [1:03:04] You just don't want to say it. [1:03:05] So, I'm not against someone being a Christian, right? [1:03:08] I'm not against the values of Christianity. [1:03:09] Obviously you are if you didn't want to say that King was a Christian. [1:03:11] You said he was an activist, he was a human being. [1:03:12] You asked me— [1:03:13] You asked me what he was. [1:03:14] I asked, what was his occupation? [1:03:15] Exactly, he's talking over me. [1:03:16] Yeah, let her answer the question. [1:03:17] You gotta stop that. [1:03:18] Anyway, there's nothing wrong with supporting this idea that we should, you know, values [1:03:23] that are good are values that are good. [1:03:24] However, you have to actually isolate what is this quality of the black church that you [1:03:29] believe actually pushed us to— [1:03:31] Belief in the Bible. [1:03:32] Okay. [1:03:33] Specifically, what about the Bible? [1:03:34] The belief that all men are made in the image of God, and as a result of being made [1:03:38] in the image of God, you're entitled to certain rights— [1:03:40] Okay, what about— [1:03:41] That are intrinsic. [1:03:42] Objectively intrinsic. [1:03:43] Deuteronomy? [1:03:44] Is that how it's said? [1:03:45] It's Deuteronomy. [1:03:46] Deuteronomy 21, 10, 14. [1:03:47] Do you know what those verses say? [1:03:49] Not right off the top of my head. [1:03:50] Okay, cool. [1:03:51] So, they basically talk about how God affirms your ability to take a woman captive if you [1:03:58] go to war with their country, and you can take her, have her mourn her father for a month, [1:04:03] and then you have a wife, right? [1:04:05] Also, there are other—what is it? [1:04:06] Ephesians 6, 5— [1:04:07] Wait, wait, wait, wait. [1:04:08] Ephesians 6, 5, also, New Testament— [1:04:09] Wait a minute. [1:04:10] You're engaging— [1:04:11] I'm not done. [1:04:12] You being done has nothing to do with the fact that you're going to— [1:04:14] No, no, no. [1:04:15] Let her finish your point. [1:04:16] Like, what's your problem, bro? [1:04:17] Anyway, Ephesians 6, 5, New Testament, another verse that affirms one's ability to hold slaves. [1:04:23] That is a value that is directly quoted from the Bible. [1:04:26] Are those the values that the civil rights movement would have proposed? [1:04:29] So, what you're doing is engaging in what's called— [1:04:31] Doing what? [1:04:32] I'm going to tell you what you're doing. [1:04:33] You don't want me to interrupt you, but you're going to interrupt me when I just— [1:04:34] Quoting the Bible. [1:04:35] That's what I'm doing. [1:04:36] No, you're engaging in the borrowed capital fallacy because you're an atheist, and now you're [1:04:38] trying to tell me how to interpret my Bible. [1:04:39] I'm agnostic. [1:04:40] You're—okay. [1:04:41] You're even better. [1:04:42] You don't even—you don't know. [1:04:43] You don't know definitively whether or not there is a God, so you're still engaging [1:04:45] in the borrowed capital fallacy. [1:04:46] You don't believe in the Bible— [1:04:47] By quoting the Bible. [1:04:48] You don't believe in the Bible— [1:04:49] Did Deuteronomy— [1:04:50] Did Deuteronomy say or not say that someone can take a woman as a captive and make her [1:04:56] his wife? [1:04:57] Within the confines of the book of Deuteronomy, since you want to go about the Bible— [1:04:59] I do. [1:05:00] What is the—okay, right. [1:05:01] Let's do that now. [1:05:02] So, that's an institution of the Mosaic law, right? [1:05:05] When did the Mosaic—when was the Mosaic law established? [1:05:07] Can you affirm the question I asked? [1:05:08] When was the Mosaic—I'm answering the question? [1:05:09] I said yes. [1:05:10] Did the Bible— [1:05:11] Yes, it says that. [1:05:12] Okay, so slavery, under biblical morality, slavery is okay. [1:05:15] No, it's not. [1:05:16] Not the same kind of slavery. [1:05:17] There's a difference because what you're doing— [1:05:18] What kind of slavery is okay then? [1:05:19] There's another verse. [1:05:20] Exodus 2120. [1:05:21] What you are doing isn't— [1:05:22] Exodus 2120. [1:05:23] What you are doing, I know where you're going to go with this. [1:05:24] Exodus 2120. [1:05:25] Okay, let Austin answer. [1:05:26] I mean, look, listen. [1:05:27] I've had this discussion. [1:05:28] I'm a former atheist. [1:05:29] While you were a former—while you're a current agnostic, I'm a former atheist. [1:05:35] But you're still—no, we're not twins. [1:05:36] I got one already. [1:05:37] I'll keep my twin sister. [1:05:38] Take her, 100%. [1:05:40] What you're engaging in is the borrowed capital fallacy. [1:05:42] The books of Exodus— [1:05:43] According to the Bible. [1:05:44] If you allow me to finish, you're quoting it incorrectly. [1:05:46] How? [1:05:47] If you allow me to finish, I'm going to tell you how. [1:05:50] What you're talking about is under the—is a set of rules established by the Mosaic [1:05:54] law, which came in after the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden. [1:05:58] So if we're going to really be true to the Bible, you have to follow it within its chronological [1:06:02] order. [1:06:03] And the slavery piece, the chattel slavery that was practiced in the United States is [1:06:08] nowhere near— [1:06:09] Is any kind of slavery okay? [1:06:10] Is any kind of slavery okay? [1:06:11] Indentured— [1:06:12] Is any kind of slavery okay? [1:06:13] That is not the question— [1:06:14] Xena, if you're going to— [1:06:15] Exodus 20— [1:06:16] Let him finish his full point. [1:06:17] Okay. [1:06:18] I mean, because there's no point in this continuous conversation if there's going [1:06:20] to be the case. [1:06:21] If you're not going to answer it, yeah, there's no point. [1:06:22] I'm trying to tell you that what the comparison you're attempting to make between chattel [1:06:25] slavery and biblical slavery or indentured servitude are completely different [1:06:28] things. [1:06:29] But I didn't say that. [1:06:30] Just ask me a question— [1:06:31] All right, we're going to have to pause here because you've been voted out by the [1:06:34] majority. [1:06:35] Thank you. [1:06:39] If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. [1:06:44] You would've been a co-host of my opponent. [1:06:50] Oh no, I'm nervous now. [1:06:51] Oh God. [1:06:52] Good to see you again. [1:06:53] Good to see you. [1:06:54] Okay. [1:06:55] So I think—I just want to focus on the Bibles and churches aspect of this. [1:06:57] Sure. [1:06:58] Because it seems like that's your broader main claim that Christianity was largely responsible [1:07:01] for producing this moral victory. [1:07:03] 100%. [1:07:04] Okay. [1:07:05] I don't necessarily disagree with some of that. [1:07:07] Thank you very much. [1:07:08] Don't color me impressed. [1:07:09] You know why? [1:07:10] Okay. [1:07:11] Or don't impress me of color. [1:07:12] Okay. [1:07:13] You know why? [1:07:14] Because the exact same Bible was invoked by all of the people who were against the civil [1:07:20] rights movement in the first place. [1:07:22] Yeah, absolutely. [1:07:23] Okay. [1:07:24] So then the Bible is not what's doing the heavy lifting. [1:07:25] The church is not what's doing the heavy lifting. [1:07:27] It's the people who are doing the heavy lifting. [1:07:29] They just happen to use that as a vessel because everyone happened to belong to a church back [1:07:33] then. [1:07:34] So it's not that impressive that that was the fact, right? [1:07:36] Well, what's impressive is the fact that I think that the Bible was properly interpreted [1:07:39] by the people that said all men are made in the image of God, that read the Bible for [1:07:43] what it was. [1:07:44] You know, when they—and this is something that people often do with Christianity. [1:07:47] They, you know, they call it the white man's religion, right? [1:07:49] But the problem is when they gave—they didn't give slaves actual Bibles. [1:07:52] They gave them what was called selected scriptures for the American Negro. [1:07:55] You know the books that were missing? [1:07:56] Deuteronomy was missing. [1:07:58] Exodus was missing. [1:07:59] The whole story of the Jews escaping slavery in Egypt was missing out of the Bible. [1:08:03] They were—so if you misuse something and you misquote something, you're just a lying asshole. [1:08:07] Well, I agree they misused it and I agree they lied about part of the message. [1:08:11] But that kind of proves my point, doesn't it? [1:08:13] No, it just proves humans can do stupid shit. [1:08:15] No, it proves my point because if two people can interpret it in both sides in different [1:08:19] ways to utilize their means of whatever they want to achieve, then it's not the Bible [1:08:24] producing the unique moral good. [1:08:27] Interpreting and altering are different, Jake. [1:08:29] You've got to be honest there because if I take verses out of that thing and then I'm like, [1:08:32] you know, let me just give you half the story. [1:08:34] We already talked about slavery. [1:08:35] It says a lot about slavery. [1:08:36] The one thing it doesn't do is it condemns slavery in the Bible. [1:08:38] So you can use— [1:08:39] Yes, it does. [1:08:40] It says that in the story of Moses. [1:08:41] No, wait, wait, wait. [1:08:42] Address that. [1:08:43] It also approves slavery. [1:08:44] No, it approves indentured servitude. [1:08:45] Okay. [1:08:46] Fine. [1:08:47] I mean, I've read it. [1:08:48] I used to not believe in the book. [1:08:49] I've read it. [1:08:50] So do you believe in indentured servitude? [1:08:51] No, right? [1:08:52] To a degree, yes. [1:08:53] Okay. [1:08:54] I don't want to get this conversation off. [1:08:55] What do you think employment is? [1:08:56] I don't want to get this conversation off into an indentured servitude discussion. [1:08:59] I want to go back to the Bibles are, you say, kind of the independent variable in the equation of liberty. [1:09:05] But I fundamentally disagree. [1:09:07] Okay. [1:09:08] Good leadership and good strategy is the independent variable in the equation of liberty. [1:09:11] That's when you get into what is it rooted in. [1:09:12] What is that leadership rooted in? [1:09:13] In—what do you—does it have to be rooted in Christianity? [1:09:17] Wait, wait. [1:09:18] Was Gandhi rooted in Christianity, like he went through the church? [1:09:21] No, Gandhi didn't. [1:09:22] Okay, so clearly civil rights movements, successful civil rights movements can happen without the church or without Christianity. [1:09:28] But what happened was that the same principles appeared across multiple iterations, right? [1:09:32] I'm not saying you have to—you don't even have to know the Bible exists to practice biblical principles. [1:09:36] The fact that you don't know or the fact that you can't directly ascribe how you move in a certain way to a particular religious text doesn't matter. [1:09:43] If you practice the fruit of the tree while not recognizing that that's where it came from, it doesn't matter. [1:09:47] So by that logic, because the Bible— [1:09:48] I'm going to have to pause here. You've been voted out by the majority. [1:09:51] Let's do it. Good to see you again. [1:09:53] If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three. [1:09:58] In three, two, one. [1:10:00] Rematch. [1:10:09] Why do you feel so comfortable parroting white Christian nationalist talking points? [1:10:13] I don't parrot white Christian nationalist talking points. [1:10:15] Literally, you sitting here saying DEI and talking about, like, pronouns and civil rights. [1:10:21] First and foremost, just to get this out of the way, the Civil Rights Act, civil rights as a whole, that was, quote-unquote, DEI. [1:10:28] No, it wasn't. [1:10:29] It literally wasn't. [1:10:30] I don't care. [1:10:31] It was America finally being forced to recognize— [1:10:32] Why didn't you say DEI? [1:10:33] It was finally America—wait a minute. [1:10:35] It was finally America being forced to recognize to live up to its stated principles in the Constitution. [1:10:40] Title I, voting. [1:10:41] Title II, public spaces, government spaces. [1:10:45] Title IV, education. [1:10:46] Title VI, federal aid assistance. [1:10:48] Title VII, employment. [1:10:49] That's fine. [1:10:50] That's fine. [1:10:51] Why did you leave out the A? [1:10:52] All that legal language serves to make sense when one of the worst criminal justice— [1:10:55] Why did you leave out the A? [1:10:56] I'm gonna respond. [1:10:57] One of the worst rulings in the history of this country that all those titles you just beautifully named addressed [1:11:01] was the fact that Chief Justice Roger Tanney at one point said that a black man, or a Negro, to quote his words, [1:11:05] has no rights that he as a white man is bound to respect. [1:11:07] And that was codified into law. [1:11:09] So if bullshit was codified into law— [1:11:10] You're pontificating. [1:11:11] No, I ain't pontificating. [1:11:12] You're pontificating. [1:11:13] I ain't pontificating. [1:11:14] I'm ex-slap relating. [1:11:15] You understand? [1:11:16] Why'd you leave the A out? [1:11:17] What is the A? [1:11:18] You don't know what the A is in D-E-I-A? [1:11:21] I didn't know there was an A. [1:11:22] Y'all add new letters every other week. [1:11:24] Exactly. [1:11:25] Whoa, whoa, whoa. [1:11:26] First and foremost— [1:11:27] What is the A? [1:11:28] The A is for accessibility. [1:11:29] Who does that cover? [1:11:30] I would imagine it's people that may be disabled. [1:11:33] Exactly. [1:11:34] Okay, what does that have to do with the fact to summarize the one with Bibles and churches? [1:11:37] Wait, wait, wait. [1:11:38] Do you know how long D-E-I-A has been a thing? [1:11:40] I don't. [1:11:41] That's not what I'm here to talk about. [1:11:42] Since the 1960s. [1:11:43] I know it's not. [1:11:44] I said D-E-I, so if the A is not there, they're actually not even part of my claim. [1:11:46] You said D-E-I. [1:11:47] You said D-E-I. [1:11:48] I have a good track record. [1:11:49] What is white supremacist talking points? [1:11:50] D-E-I. [1:11:51] For everyone who may not know. [1:11:52] What? [1:11:53] Wait a minute. [1:11:54] What is white supremacist about? [1:11:55] Stop. [1:11:56] Stop. [1:11:57] Stop. [1:11:58] Stop. [1:11:59] Stop. [1:12:00] I have a good track record. [1:12:01] Also, let him respond to your question. [1:12:02] I have a good track record of schooling black conservatives, and I got you. [1:12:03] Listen. [1:12:04] You don't have me on anything. [1:12:05] You're obfuscating. [1:12:06] You added a letter to something that wasn't even in my original claim. [1:12:08] For the people that don't know, the reason why they say D-E-I is because the word [1:12:13] is a dog whistle. [1:12:14] It has an etymology. [1:12:15] The word is a dog whistle. [1:12:16] It has an etymology. [1:12:17] We're here to talk about the fact that civil rights were worn with Bibles and churches, [1:12:19] not pronouns in D-E-I. [1:12:20] Are you going to listen? [1:12:21] And now you added a letter that isn't even my claim. [1:12:22] Are you going to listen? [1:12:23] So really I don't have to listen. [1:12:24] Are you going to listen? [1:12:25] No. [1:12:26] Because it's not in my claim. [1:12:27] D-E-I. [1:12:28] The reason why he said D-E-I is the same reason they used to say the word critical race theory. [1:12:32] Right? [1:12:33] CRT. [1:12:34] I don't have a problem with race theory. [1:12:35] What are you talking about? [1:12:36] Listen. [1:12:37] I need you to hear me. [1:12:38] I need you to say something of substance. [1:12:39] They used to say BLM. [1:12:40] Black Lives Matter. [1:12:41] What does that have to do with anything else? [1:12:43] Before BLM. [1:12:44] Listen. [1:12:45] Before BLM. [1:12:46] They used this. [1:12:47] Before they said BLM. [1:12:48] They used to say the word thug. [1:12:49] And before the word. [1:12:50] Who's the they? [1:12:51] Before the word thug. [1:12:52] Who is the they? [1:12:53] Before they said the word boy. [1:12:54] Who is the they? [1:12:55] And before the word boy. [1:12:56] Who is the they? [1:12:57] They called us the N word. [1:12:58] Who is the they? [1:12:59] Who is the they? [1:13:00] So you actually saying D-E-I. [1:13:01] They only talk about D-E-I when they talk about black people. [1:13:03] Nothing you said. [1:13:04] This is not TikTok. [1:13:05] Nothing you said has anything to do with my claim. [1:13:06] It's the etymology of the word. [1:13:08] The etymology. [1:13:09] I'm talking about the action. [1:13:10] I'm talking about the action. [1:13:11] You just sat here and tried to say that I'm parroting white supremacist talking points when [1:13:14] I'm the most pro-black conservative. [1:13:15] That's because you don't. [1:13:16] That is. [1:13:17] Your anti-black is. [1:13:19] Anti-black is. [1:13:20] Anti-black is. [1:13:21] How? [1:13:22] Queer phobic? [1:13:23] Both. [1:13:24] How? [1:13:25] And you're a raging misogynist. [1:13:26] Raging misogynist. [1:13:27] You need to unpack. [1:13:28] I need to unpack. [1:13:29] He has not addressed my claim. [1:13:30] He hasn't addressed my claim at all. [1:13:31] He hasn't addressed my claim at all. [1:13:32] He hasn't addressed my claim at all. [1:13:33] He has said nothing of the fact that the, because he can't, because you know why? [1:13:37] Because he can't run from the reality of it. [1:13:38] The reality of it is the civil rights movement does not win without God being at the center [1:13:42] of it. [1:13:43] That is exactly why Martin Luther King is the only American in this country's history that passed [1:13:45] more legislation. [1:13:46] Martin Luther King is the Marxist. [1:13:47] The, the womanizer. [1:13:48] Sure. [1:13:49] Like whatever. [1:13:50] Really? [1:13:51] We can talk about Emma Baker. [1:13:52] We can talk about James Baldwin. [1:13:54] We can talk about W EDB DeVose and Walcast. [1:13:57] All of them. [1:13:58] How was Martin Luther King the Marxist? [1:13:59] How was Martin Luther King? [1:14:01] How was Martin Luther King the Marxist? [1:14:02] Martin Luther King, jr. [1:14:03] No he didn't. [1:14:04] Not legislative rights. [1:14:05] All three of them did. [1:14:06] Who got invited to the White House? [1:14:07] Who got invited to the white house? [1:14:08] Cause he was the token figurehead. [1:14:09] Martin Luther King was a token figurehead. [1:14:10] The FBI surveilled him and telling him to kill himself, but he was token figurehead. [1:14:12] him to kill himself he was a token figurehead when i tell you the movement was bigger than your [1:14:18] messiah so you have called me a a token you've said i'm supporting white supremacist talking [1:14:24] no you said marley king was a token you said king was falsely a marxist which is a lie i just quoted [1:14:28] that i refuted that point when we were talking to the absolute lie you said that i am a raging [1:14:34] misogynist i don't know how the hell that's impossible what about me is misogynistic the [1:14:38] fact that me and xena can have a disagreement and argue back and forth because i guarantee you i [1:14:41] would i would do whatever it took to make sure that i want to create an egalitarian society but [1:14:46] i'm a raging misogynist sure you have done nothing to actually address the claim because you came up [1:14:51] here to obfuscate and pontificate about some bullshit because the claim that i gave is irrefutable there [1:14:55] is no way that the civil rights movement wins in this country without the bible being at its [1:14:59] foundation and you know that as well as i do the reason you don't want to run from it is because [1:15:02] you're not a christian that's fine you don't have to accept my worldview but you have to accept the [1:15:06] fact that no american besides martin luther king jr other than martin luther king jr got more [1:15:11] legislation passed for us within the same time frame as the malcolms as the james baldwins as [1:15:16] the adam clayton powells and he was in congress by the way one of the most effective congressmen of [1:15:20] all time none of that is possible without a minute being perfect perfect first and foremost the reason [1:15:25] why you are a misogynist a raging misogynist is because you haven't taken the time to actually [1:15:31] unpack any of the things specifically black i sat here quietly for a minute let him respond the things [1:15:38] that black men have done specifically during the civil rights era you know what's funny about the [1:15:42] civil rights era black women actually gave up their pursuit of feminism in order to actually uplift the [1:15:49] civil rights movement they literally put themselves to the back in order to ensure that black people as [1:15:55] a whole had what they they had to get and they were they were abandoned they were abandoned by black [1:15:59] men and by women white women the point that i'm saying rosa parks put herself to the back you're [1:16:06] specifically trying to call back to a time where you are you you're uplifting these leaders that did [1:16:11] the same that you're doing but yet you don't listen to black women do you look i recommended a book for [1:16:18] i recommended a book for you that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about what was the point [1:16:24] of reading the book that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about of reading the book to [1:16:27] understand its opposition's viewpoints you were supposed to read the book to understand black women [1:16:32] in their struggle you wanted to read the book so you could tear down black women that are feminists [1:16:36] that was your entire point my entire point of reading bell hooks you wanted to actually go to a [1:16:41] different point so you could continue to attack black women because you're anti-black and you're [1:16:46] misogynist and you're queer phobic you have no evidence to support any of your claim put black [1:16:52] people in the queer community against each other no it identifies the it identifies the fact that [1:16:57] democrats have been lying to black people for decades the issue is that i ain't going for this [1:17:00] if you're gonna get if you're gonna if democrats stop if democrats have had the black voting base [1:17:04] to a rate of over 80 percent for over 20 years what about the conservatives conservatives are flat [1:17:09] they're not you're not holding them accountable you put two marginalized communities against each [1:17:14] other because you have a problem i'm making a statement that the left who has who has more [1:17:19] voted black support on average the left or the right answer that problem who has more [1:17:23] okay then so that's why i'm holding them accountable at least he's honest in that regard [1:17:27] you're not willing to talk about the conservatives because then you have to talk about yourself [1:17:31] that's why you're not willing to unpack that's why you're not willing to address your [1:17:34] misogyny that's why you're not willing to address your anti-blackness that's why you're not [1:17:38] willing to address your queer phobia he obviously hasn't gone to my tiktok certainly people i hope [1:17:41] conservatives all the time i i go look at the video i did on brandon tatum go look at the video i did [1:17:46] on the president for the past four months go look at the fact that i said that the president [1:17:48] in current administration has not been america first if anybody is a genuine [1:17:52] when's the last time when's the last time you actually listened to another marginalized community [1:17:57] and took that feedback like who i've listened to him every single day who i've listened to [1:18:02] she's live she's here she's fantastic i've listened to zena's live she's fantastic shout out to [1:18:06] ari for education shout out to ari for education one of the most intelligent black women that i [1:18:12] know why is it that you have an issue with ever listening to her any and every time you speak to [1:18:19] her you crash out just like this you know why you do this it's like a crash because it's a black [1:18:23] film voice it's not actually gets you it's not i just gave you two i just gave you two great black [1:18:27] female contract creators that even though i disagree with both because they're sitting right here no [1:18:30] because they're sitting right here sashika have i not sent you does he want to do that have i not [1:18:34] sent you they're sitting right here xena have i not tapped into your tiktok lives of course of [1:18:38] whether we disagree or not we said no stop because now you just capping i settled a round table with [1:18:41] xena and while we may disagree vehemently why wouldn't you let her speak what do you mean [1:18:45] as she sat here trying to speak to you we over talked to each other we human beings who cares [1:18:50] other people there's been a real over talking non-stop you and i i'm sure but when xena set up [1:18:59] here and tried to get her point across multiple times i could you couldn't stop to hear the black [1:19:04] woman you had a good conversation with tashika i'll give you that i'll give you that when was you had [1:19:09] an issue with xena you had an issue you have a personal relationship you have a personal relationship [1:19:14] with tashika no i do not you just said before you said you messaged i'm gonna square the circle i got it [1:19:21] the big issue is so people can't have disagreements the big issue is the black conservative man is [1:19:27] the weakest link in the black community and that's you you need to unpack all of those [1:19:32] you're calling me a weak link but i'm the one sitting at the table surrounded by 20 people [1:19:36] yeah and i've been pretty strong for the past that's because masculinity masculinity masculinity [1:19:41] is toxic uh that's not what we're here to talk about but if you want to go down that road but [1:19:45] that's the reason why you're sitting here it's your ego the only reason i'm sitting here is because [1:19:49] i'm a man you're not because i'm qualified not because i'm no no no no no no because i do the [1:19:52] same thing you know the reason why you're sitting right here right now take talk at this point the [1:19:56] reason why you're sitting here right now and doing this is because of your mask no it's because i put [1:20:00] in the work okay it's because i was i'm not getting you just did it twice you just sat here and [1:20:06] negated the work that i was a black man no you can't hear me because i just challenge your ego [1:20:10] okay santana you gotta let him finish though you guys are talking over each other you just sat here [1:20:15] and said the only reason i'm sitting in this chair is because i'm a man that's not it the reason i'm [1:20:19] sitting in this chair is because i put in over 10 000 hours of work making content since from 2020 [1:20:24] on clubhouse the 2026 sitting right here my brother that's work okay that has nothing to do with [1:20:29] it let me clarify my sister could have done this my twin could have did it my mama could have did it my daddy [1:20:32] could have did it you're doing it now i'm not negating the work that you've done i'm not saying [1:20:36] that no i didn't i was just clear i said the reason why you're doing this right now is because [1:20:41] your ego no reason the reason why you can't hear me the reason why you can't hear me is because of [1:20:46] your ego no the reason i know the reason i heard what you said is this the first time i've told you [1:20:50] this yes 100 and so so why did i recommend bell hooks to you because we were having a conversation if [1:20:56] i'm not mistaken i told you you need to unpack your misogyny yeah and i said i'm not a misogyny i [1:21:00] disagree i said you're wrong you i said you're wrong i'm saying you're wrong again i'm going to [1:21:04] keep saying you're wrong the reason we disagree the reason why you're crashing out in front of [1:21:07] everybody right now you're saying because you're fragile masculinity you're saying that is patently [1:21:12] false if you call this a crash out then hey i guess i'm i guess this is control it's your fragile [1:21:18] masculinity that was a crash out jake light was a crash out this is just correcting but i i'll square [1:21:22] the circle with all of this when you talk about that's a contradiction talk about the wwe when you [1:21:27] talk about the 19 um i'm sorry when you talk about the civil rights act uh-huh at the heart of the [1:21:31] civil rights act was jesus christ and christ and him crucified it was martin luther king saying i [1:21:36] believe and i have a dream and one day who don't know the people on youtube want to hear this they [1:21:41] wanted to hear the heart of the civil rights act was jesus christ was and him crucified ability to [1:21:47] create equity and the gospel equity inclusion and you do that how by believing that all men are made in [1:21:53] the image of god and because all men are made in the image of god they're endowed by their creator with [1:21:56] certain animal rights that among them my life and i'm gonna be honest jesus was a black communist [1:22:01] so really like show me where in the bible he's a communist stop stop show me where because you're [1:22:05] just by his actions you're a liar by his actions how where he traveled the land he took care of [1:22:09] everyone he didn't want um people to uphold money or worship money he said he literally said yeah he's [1:22:15] god he can do he he did everything that's not communist he did so doing the right thing automatically [1:22:19] makes you economist communism is making sure that people have what they need tell me what about [1:22:25] christianity tell me what about christianity make sure people have what they need guys we have to [1:22:29] pause here my next surrounded claim is that the republican party cares more about free speech the [1:22:35] democrats all right if you'd like to be the first debater please get to the chair in three two one [1:22:41] how are you sir what's your name what's good yo my name's eric nice to meet you nice to meet you [1:22:52] is that a diamond button it's crystal oh it's crystal that's my bad uh yeah my name is eric [1:22:58] eric awesome nice to meet you first of all i want to just ask why do you think the republicans hold [1:23:02] freedom of speech to more importance than the democrats do well because when you look at what [1:23:07] happened in 2020 with covet for example the biden administration pressured facebook meta and twitter [1:23:12] to silence people that may have offered what they called misinformation about the covet vaccine [1:23:16] and the covert virus in and of itself um and president trump actually when he was running this [1:23:20] past time he said that upon his inauguration he would have congress send a bill to his desk [1:23:25] revising section 230 of the digital communications act which would force if you know done the right [1:23:30] way it would force tick tock instagram youtube you name it to give us the option to have a [1:23:34] chronological feed of information versus an algorithmically ai curated feed that would be the [1:23:39] most that's more pro-free speech than anything i've seen the democrats present in the past 20 years [1:23:42] and him appointing brendan carter the chair of the fcc um and has is helping to slowly bring that in and [1:23:48] he passed an executive order when he first got in this time uh attacking government censorship on [1:23:52] social media specifically see i'll let you say everything we can take our time you know we can [1:23:56] you don't always gotta be a bunch of yelling 100 i like yelling too though yeah we might get there [1:24:01] well i mean i think the biggest thing there i have to address yes i'm gonna say i think the stifling of [1:24:05] freedom of speech on both sides is completely wrong you know you and i may disagree but you [1:24:09] can hop on tick tock and call me a dumb stupid democrat and be like damn man that kind of hurt [1:24:12] but that's cool you know that's chill that's fine however i do think we have to also note the [1:24:17] egregious amounts of stifling of freedom of speech that this current administration has done [1:24:21] oh yeah throwing the associated press out right saying because they were saying the gulf of mexico [1:24:26] and also now trump lobbying and like kind of lobbying the tick tock ban so his biggest allies and [1:24:32] ellison family and oracle can't control the biggest social media platform in this country [1:24:37] in addition to him as well look i don't like the fact that he got banned off of x uh but i [1:24:41] also don't like the fact that he has this thing called true social where he is selling earlier [1:24:45] tweets for insider information as well i think all of that is complete that mortgage yeah i mean [1:24:49] i'm not a fan i'm not a fan of that either and that gets into you know but like crony capitalism [1:24:53] which i'm not again i'm not a fan of but at the same time you know what what i what i'm for [1:24:58] is pro free speech across the board all right do you have to pause here you've been voted out by the [1:25:02] majority damn guys really wow that's all right good very good conversation very good very good [1:25:08] if you would like to be the next debater please get to the chair in three two one too fast gotta [1:25:16] be quicker than that i'm akobo akobo i'd say nice to meet you but i saw what happened to z so don't [1:25:21] i get what happened she said nice to meet you to jake lang got like totally killed online well i'm not [1:25:26] well damn i'm not jake lang no i was just messing with you all right so uh your claim uh republicans are more [1:25:31] uh pro free speech than democrats yeah i disagree with it i i do work for the san diego county [1:25:36] democratic party very good my views are my own um but there's a lot with the democratic party i [1:25:41] disagree with i disagree with our views on the middle east i i don't think we should be funding a [1:25:44] genocide in palestine i disagree with a lot of what we're doing uh including uh with your claim about [1:25:50] the uh black america black americans uh we should have operations and it's a shame that we haven't done [1:25:55] anything about it well we agree there yeah i also i also disagree on a lot of our views on free speech [1:26:00] okay uh both parties do this i don't think this is a left versus right issue i think this is us the [1:26:05] people versus them the establishment issue i agree i don't i don't disagree it's always good because [1:26:10] we can sit here for 20 minutes like picking and choosing examples of each side like democrats with [1:26:15] covid yes i i do think that it's a slightly different situation because millions of people died [1:26:19] and when you have uh you know influencers and people claiming to inject highlighter fluid into [1:26:24] your bloodstream yeah i think it's dangerous i think it's dangerous but i disagree with you on [1:26:29] that i understand there but there are examples you know you're pro free speech when it benefits you [1:26:33] no you're anti-free speech no not you personally i'm talking about the establishment okay so like trump [1:26:37] for example in my opinion freedom of speech is um wow i'm shaking jesus freedom of speech is uh it's [1:26:44] agreeing it's uh allowing people to say something you disagree with yeah so me i think it is [1:26:49] very un-american to burn the american flag i think do i absolutely ridiculous but it is part of [1:26:55] freedom of speech yeah so what i'm not not to cut you off what i'm saying this is like let's look at [1:26:59] this in practice right i don't know and you can feel free to tell me if i if there is an example i [1:27:05] don't know of a democratic leader that was assassinated because of the stuff that they said [1:27:09] that they disagree with i know charlie kirk was killed because uh that someone just said hey fascist [1:27:13] catch charlie kirk wasn't a fascist and i would have loved to debate charlie on a lot of things [1:27:17] but that's the kind of thing that i'm speaking to when i'm so when i say pro free speech i mean [1:27:21] even if you disagree with me for example well i mean can i respond to that because you're gonna [1:27:25] keep going okay democratic lawmakers look in minnesota like the the state lawmakers were murdered [1:27:29] okay for their political beliefs i think that's right i am not even 19 years old i have 4 700 [1:27:35] followers on instagram i'm not that famous i have had 118 death threats since january 1st of 2026. [1:27:41] i have had my phone number leaked multiple times i have people i've had people call me and say my [1:27:46] address and they're gonna kill me no i've had that i've had definitely you think yeah no no i understand [1:27:53] you've seen my tiktok but this this is not a left versus right thing right it's true and and it's it's [1:27:59] it's a us versus something like like i've been saying i don't disagree i don't think you can say [1:28:03] one party is more pro free speech than another party well what i'm looking at is what we're looking at [1:28:07] is within recent with within recent memory and as and as a whole that's what i'm saying we just have [1:28:12] we have donald trump kicking the ap out thank you for saying that because they called it and that's [1:28:17] you have him calling reporters and he's wrong to do that how are you saying you can't see more [1:28:22] recent examples of republicans than democrats because i gave you president i gave you most [1:28:27] anti-free-speech president we have had in yelling no that's not true yeah it is 100 true i just told [1:28:32] you that he's the only president that i've seen that called for a revision of the digital [1:28:36] communication okay so you can do one good thing in 50 bad things like that i don't understand if [1:28:40] that you don't understand oh my god this you don't you're not right you're not understanding [1:28:43] stop yelling we don't have to yell you're right you're not understanding okay pause you've been [1:28:47] voted out by the majority if you would like to be the next debater please get to the chair in three [1:28:53] two one you're back i'm back we're ready to do this again huh we're gonna try give me a little bit [1:29:02] more of your why behind this claim so like i said i'm going back my chief example is that if donald trump [1:29:07] does actually get the u.s government to revise section 230 the digital communications act then [1:29:11] the internet is no longer going to be algorithmically curated they can't they can't they can't uh places [1:29:16] like tick tock instagram youtube everybody gets a fair shot to go viral essentially because you're [1:29:20] offering users any platform that has over a million active monthly users would be forced to offer you [1:29:24] either a chronological feed or a for you page essentially where chronologically you see every post [1:29:29] just at the time the creator posted it um algorithmically curated they can modify it put promotes [1:29:34] push stuff up tear stuff down based on whatever arbitrary bullshit that they want okay i appreciate [1:29:39] the word salad oh it was something i think the right wants to make free speech benefit them when [1:29:47] they want to because you gave an example of charlie kirk yeah hold on let me pull up my seat get ready [1:29:55] so let's talk about charlie kirk's assassination liberals had a lot to say about it they called him [1:30:00] racist bigoted he was very transphobic he had his views and yet i found that republicans excuse me do [1:30:07] not interrupt a black trans woman when she's speaking i found it very ironic excuse me excuse [1:30:11] me have to do with this excuse me i find it ironic that a lot of republicans were trying to [1:30:17] comfort the liberals that had a lot to say about charlie kirk's death is that not that's free speech [1:30:21] exactly and so the problem is i should be able to all were the biggest snowflakes when it came to uh [1:30:27] free speech because there were people saying he deserved it did you forget that but here's the [1:30:30] thing now the fact of the matter it is still that is still covered under free speech though that's [1:30:34] the point so that means let me finish hold on and no no let me finish my point and you can say what [1:30:40] you need to say i promise that's like they created an excel sheet to go out to make a list of liberal [1:30:46] people who had a lot to say about charlie kirk they called their jobs okay i think that's wrong [1:30:50] that's it doxed them that's unnecessary it was so much but your party started that and when they [1:30:54] do that wait a minute stop hold on a second let me respond to that when they do that type of stupid [1:30:58] shit they're wrong anybody getting doxed is wrong but while i may never agree with a lot of the stuff [1:31:02] you may say i will defend to the death your right to say it there should be nothing wrong with me [1:31:06] saying biological men should only play with biological men there should be nothing wrong with me saying [1:31:10] that a trans that that a trans community should stick with should play against some other members [1:31:16] of that community there should be nothing wrong with making a statement you can disagree all day long [1:31:19] that's the purpose of america second example when trump started an illegal war and everybody in the [1:31:24] media criticized them for it all of a sudden this is a war with iran oh so you want the u.s [1:31:29] government to do nothing let's not go down that rabbit hole i'm just making an example i'm making [1:31:34] an analysis so follow me on the analysis can you can you follow me i've been feeling i've been leading [1:31:39] the conversation not following y'all are sitting here around me yeah i'm leading the conversation [1:31:43] whatever you say okay the truth i doubt it but anyways when we talk about like donald this whole thing [1:31:49] with donald trump donald trump has tried his best to shut down the media in any way possible all of a [1:31:54] sudden these big corporate mergers how many times excuse me hold on hold on let me finish let me [1:32:01] finish my point with these big corporations that are merging together like with the whole thing [1:32:07] with cbs news becoming much more conservative i find it ironic that they want to suppress what is [1:32:12] really going down donald trump is trying to find ways the ceo of cbs has ties to donald trump okay [1:32:22] and what i'm trying to say to you is when barry weiss took over cbs news okay that is when the [1:32:27] downhill started staff has been laid off you can say that cool the ratings cbs news ratings have [1:32:33] declined so much no what i'm saying what i'm saying is but what i'm saying is i just need you [1:32:39] to listen to me then what i'm saying is the right the right wants to make it beneficial to them when [1:32:45] it comes to free speech both sides do that i don't i disagree with you okay so if you disagree with you [1:32:50] all right cool so then answer me this back in 2011 10 somewhere around there didn't donald trump take [1:32:56] his ass on the view and whoopi gave him a hug and a kiss and joy bayard gave him a hug and a kiss [1:32:59] before he ran for president did that not happen yes that was a different time though it was [1:33:04] let me finish go ahead don't interrupt the black man when he's speaking oh okay right right so did [1:33:10] they not give him a hug and a kiss when he was on the view before he ran for president before [1:33:14] donald trump ran for president amazingly the media machine was not against him when donald trump ran [1:33:18] for president now he's a racist now he's all of this that a third you wasn't hearing none of this [1:33:22] there were black rappers saying i want to have money like what is the why behind that i want you to [1:33:26] the x is the y because the left had it because they have always had an inherent bias against [1:33:30] conservatives no no this is not about the left yes what is the exact why i just because donald trump [1:33:35] has always been a racist he's always been a bigoted it's just that now he has given free permission [1:33:40] for those who are already like that and that are in this country to express it how did he give [1:33:46] nations are able to do that you can remember baby i'm from mississippi baby i come from i come from [1:33:52] it what is you saying i'm probably i come from the freedom summer i might ask that he was all part of [1:33:57] that and there we go and there we go so you cannot you cannot sit up there and booty clap your cheeks [1:34:03] for donald trump i ain't booty clapping when you snap down nobody i think you are i think you are [1:34:07] because the thing is and the way that he is demeaned black what the man that he is demeaned black [1:34:13] people you really will sit up here and demean something like that he is misogynistic he is [1:34:18] transphobic so wait he has taken rights away from trans people like it's nobody's business [1:34:23] you're saying something that is patently false if he's misogynistic prove it i can prove it with one [1:34:31] of my good friends mikaela montgerman y'all should go look her up why would he if he's misogynistic why [1:34:35] would he appoint a black woman as one of the first speakers at all of his rallies in georgia just [1:34:38] because he appoints one black woman okay sure it does not absolve him from misogyny so if that's [1:34:47] if that's the case why would donald trump then also appoint a black woman by the name of alice johnson [1:34:51] to be his pardon czar alice you're going to be the pardon czar and she has now overturned multiple [1:34:55] convictions for misdemeanor crimes and others and who who most locked up who most benefits from that [1:35:01] and why would he have an administration with pam bondy christie norman all these white all these white [1:35:06] women on there and then turn around and fire all of them all right yeah we're gonna have to pause [1:35:12] here thank you you tried it you tried it i'm one of them ones twin i promise you if you would like [1:35:20] to be the next debater please get to the chair in three two one she said y'all ain't fascinating [1:35:28] what's your name happy austin nice to meet you okay so i just want to talk about i think you've conceded a [1:35:33] lot of points about like things that you don't agree with that donald trump has done right oh he's done a [1:35:37] lot okay so the argument is democrats versus republicans and donald trump is a part of the [1:35:42] republican party isn't that things that the republican party has done because he is the [1:35:46] leader of the republican party that is anti-free speech no what i'm what remember what i'm saying [1:35:50] specifically is that he's done something with advocating for the revision of section 230 of our [1:35:55] communications so that's one thing right no that's a huge thing though that's what i'm saying but there [1:35:58] are other huge things that have happened right he's taken away funding from pbs and or threatened to take [1:36:02] away funding from pbs and npr right because they don't agree with they were running anti-trump right [1:36:06] okay okay so that is that not anti-free speech it is yes absolutely it is okay so then he's banned [1:36:11] certain he's banned ap news from the press room is that not anti-free speech yeah again he has done [1:36:16] a lot of things that are anti-free speech okay so then there's not a majority of things that he's done [1:36:20] that are anti-free speech that i would say overpower that one thing no because of this i'll tell you [1:36:23] why because of scale of impact okay if the digital communications act is actually revised and put into law [1:36:29] that would literally allow everyone imagine we could also i think we'd all agree that going [1:36:33] viral on the internet is essentially a lotto ticket right you got to throw more stuff at the wall and [1:36:36] see what sticks you revise that law you now force the internet to give everybody the same amount of [1:36:41] potential viewership regardless of algorithmic curation so if he does that and gets that passed [1:36:46] in the law damn him banning the press away because presidents can do that like that's the power of the [1:36:49] president if you don't want a press member in in your meeting room you have the right to ban him [1:36:53] all right we're gonna have to pause here you've been voted out by the majority thank you that was good [1:36:56] that's good if you would like to be the next debater please get to the chair in three [1:37:03] two one how are you sir what's your name alex austin nice to meet you all right i just kind of wanted [1:37:12] to expand a little bit on this bill that you're talking about right so we're talking about well [1:37:17] it'll be a revision it's not a bill yet or revision right so if we're going from getting rid of [1:37:20] algorithms which i agree with right big tech has done a lot of uh damage that way right to something [1:37:25] that becomes strictly chronological how do we address no no no no not strictly it's just giving [1:37:31] people the option that's all it's giving people the option yeah if it was revised you would have [1:37:35] the option to either choose a chronological feed or a curated feed okay so it doesn't take one thing [1:37:40] away it just adds in another option that we actually should have already had so how does that help [1:37:44] address what i feel like the deeper problem is is that like we get into echo chambers my echo chamber [1:37:49] might be different than your echo chamber but we're kind of silent right so how does that bill [1:37:53] necessarily address that problem right even if you're doing a chronological choice i'm still [1:37:58] picking what i follow you still pick what you follow so i just want to hear well it's just i [1:38:02] mean everybody's going to have preferences it's the the revision of section 230 is not designed to [1:38:06] eliminate people's ability to choose what they want it just frees up the amount of choice that you have [1:38:10] if you i should be able to know that when i open tick tock or want to go on youtube and get the news [1:38:13] that every creator i'm seeing has the same access to me as the people that already have these huge big [1:38:19] ass established platforms there should be no reason that officer tatum is guaranteed more [1:38:23] reach than someone like toshiko or that xena's guaranteed more reach than me i mean there should [1:38:28] be no reason for that everyone should have the equality of opportunity in the on the internet [1:38:32] that way the truly talented of us would rise to the top the cream of the cream as i would say [1:38:36] sure but i feel like that's really an idealistic way of looking how the internet works people get [1:38:40] backed by you know bigger companies they get funding on the payroll i still don't think that's really [1:38:45] addressing um this divide in trying to get both sides uh on the table that's never gonna happen in the real [1:38:52] world you'll never i mean because like prime example right uh not to poke fun at it again [1:38:56] but xena's a marxist i'm a conservative christian we're always going to be ideologically opposed tashika [1:39:01] is a leftist i'm a christian i'm surrounded by liberals i'm never going to agree with all of you [1:39:06] ontologically it's impossible but you know what this does conversations like this fosters good dialogue [1:39:11] so videos like this news you know people that want to post news all that everyone should have the [1:39:16] same access to see it just as quick that's all i'm saying all right we have to pause here we're out of [1:39:20] time for this claim thank you all right now it is time for our final debate it's been a great debate [1:39:28] so far austin in our final debate you get 10 minutes uninterrupted so we'll look around the [1:39:34] circle and choose wisely someone you want to continue the conversation with well i'd love to [1:39:38] continue the conversation with someone that wouldn't necessarily call me misogynist or think i'm white [1:39:41] cosplaying so i'm gonna pick tashika because we had a pretty decent dialogue and uh she tried to beat me [1:39:48] but i i think she was trying to have a conversation while also trying to win all right so she's good [1:39:57] my surrounded claim is conservatives rejection of gay rights is a losing strategy hello again [1:40:04] i didn't think you'd pick me can we agree that i've said at this table i have been called a misogynist [1:40:09] i have been called a a token i've been called a sellout i've been called a grifter and i don't [1:40:14] think that's what i am would you call me one of those no i think i think when someone butchers a pro [1:40:20] black woman argument like that i think it actually sets us back overall so i'd actually agree with [1:40:24] you um so uh so yeah i brought up this argument because in our previous debate you say that gay [1:40:33] people shouldn't be able to get married oh you i remember this you're right i remember that we had [1:40:39] a tick tock debate about that yes yes i gave you the qualifying reasons as to why that was the case [1:40:44] too please go ahead i would like you to answer to me what exactly conservatives gain uh by being against [1:40:49] something especially the reason why it passed is because it was a bipartisan agreement yes uh [1:40:54] everyone was pro but now when you look at these statistics um we see that conservatives have been [1:40:58] lessening their support of gay rights particularly gay marriage i would like to know why you are one [1:41:03] of those people well because gay same-sex marriage is not that's rooted in religion uh 100 and what i [1:41:10] told you on tick tock and i'd say it here again i would if if two same-sex couples want to engage in [1:41:14] what they would call a marriage i would label it i would give them every protection that would exist [1:41:17] for a married couple but i simply would not call it marriage the defense of marriage act which was [1:41:21] a law at one point in this country i properly identified um marriage as between a man and a [1:41:26] woman uh one of the foundational ultimate goals of marriage or one of the things that tends to happen [1:41:31] is reproduction to say two people that are of the same sex cannot have kids naturally right it's they [1:41:36] can't do it and this and what they do is in my in not my own my opinion but based on my religion [1:41:42] they borrow from what is again part of the fruit of the moral christian tree while rejecting [1:41:47] or frankly changing the meaning of what god himself so unfortunately awesome the question [1:41:51] was what exactly do conservatives gain by making this into policy because i would assume that you [1:41:55] would want for this to be like an actualized piece of legislation correct well no not not necessarily [1:42:00] i'm not going to go on go on record and change the something that's already established if i i don't [1:42:04] think that okay so then what would you gain by this being a reality you would gain you would go back [1:42:09] to actual christianity christian principles you would get more to objectively true christian principles so my [1:42:14] contention because like for example what this gets into to you know this is a good question [1:42:17] what this gets into is i don't think that a pastor should preside over same-sex marriage because it's [1:42:22] literally anti-biblical and marriage is a religious institution in the west and it always has been [1:42:27] so my issue with that is when you're engaging in a same-sex marriage while calling yourself a christian [1:42:33] that is literally equivalent of being a married bachelor it's an impossible contradiction yeah so my [1:42:38] contention here is the fact that you are trying to appropriate an entire wording concept and we know [1:42:43] that the concept of marriage has always existed even before the concept of christianity right and [1:42:46] again i have to remind you austin that we live in a secular society right heavily influenced by [1:42:51] god heavily influenced by god that doesn't matter because the point is that it is a secular [1:42:56] society right to have any laws but half of the population to have any laws that attribute itself [1:43:01] to a specific religion literally goes against everything that this country was built off of [1:43:05] right not necessarily so wait a minute no it doesn't i'm sorry again prior to the [1:43:10] in the reality where your laws would be the case right in the reality where where this kind of [1:43:13] legislation where gay people are unable wait i'm sorry actually let's restate real quick [1:43:18] are you saying that they just shouldn't be able to call it marriage yeah that's it so they'll have [1:43:23] all the same rights it's the same thing i said absolutely so everything that a married couple would [1:43:28] get a gay couple would get they just wouldn't be able to call it it would be called you know what [1:43:32] despite the fact that marriage the concept of that has already existed before christianity [1:43:36] we're supposed to allow for christians to appropriate that word and then completely it [1:43:40] is an appropriation it's not appropriation because they had the concept and the word has existed before [1:43:44] that so okay but the the bible is older than the united states of america so let's start with that [1:43:49] right so the concept of marriage is older than the bible uh that's that's that is true that's much less [1:43:54] it was a different kind because you talk because you go back to the african spiritual religions they [1:43:58] that wasn't it wasn't monogamous they were actually most african cultures actually believed these [1:44:02] things would still be marriage austin but it's not the same way that god originally defined it [1:44:06] which is we have to be that's why we gotta be clear about that that's why we live in a secular [1:44:08] country where the god what doesn't matter what the what the what the dominant religion is no no [1:44:14] it does in this conversation because you'd have to agree with me that yes do we overall live in a [1:44:18] secular society sure granted but 52 of the population of this country identifies as christian [1:44:25] which means and you're not going to tell me that someone's politics don't flow downstream from [1:44:29] their religion of course it does but that's the entire point of living in a society but no no wait a [1:44:33] minute no no come on now that's the entire awesome you listen to me yeah no come on that's [1:44:38] the entire point of living in a secular society right because regardless of the like how many [1:44:42] people uh uh uh prescribed to a particular religion the laws that we all live under and [1:44:46] the rights that we all have are consistently going to be secular to maintain the rights of [1:44:51] everyone else you are advocating it doesn't need to it's influenced by equality right you don't [1:44:55] think the bible influenced american law it doesn't need to that's the no but it did that's what i'm [1:44:59] saying okay but that doesn't mean that it needs to stay that way again you are trying to appropriate [1:45:04] the word marriage and that is just not how that works and then why was the defensive marriage act [1:45:09] originally address that first what if that's the case then why was the defensive marriage act passed [1:45:14] prior to why because in the united states of america we have always maintained a christian ethos [1:45:19] one of the america's greatest taglines is we were founded on our judeo-christian principles that's why [1:45:24] the defensive marriage act had to be repealed in order for uh same-sex marriage to be legalized at the [1:45:28] federal level so what i'm saying is that there's an illegitimate inseparability of of religion and [1:45:33] politics across any country and you can see they must be inseparable because not everyone in this [1:45:38] country is religious and so it is the case that we but not if you look at the broad street of history [1:45:43] across the united states because some people have been influenced by a set by by a bit of philosophy [1:45:48] doesn't mean that the laws a damn big bit of philosophy doesn't mean that the laws that they [1:45:52] create also have to follow that for everyone else again you would have to justify why christianity [1:45:57] has the ownership over marriage that's the point because in the confines of the united states when [1:46:01] christian when monogamous christian marriage was practiced at its highest rates that led to some of [1:46:05] the greatest periods of success this is irrelevant to the question i'm answering it i'm answering it [1:46:10] when we when the nuclear family in the black america was at its strongest the u.s had produced some of [1:46:14] the had some of the strongest years economically in the history of the country especially in particular [1:46:18] when we focus on the black community and you know this as well as i do when daniel patrick [1:46:21] monahan released his report uh which was the breakdown of the nuclear family in 1965 he noted quite a few [1:46:27] that from 1940 through 1965 black males began to leave the house and abandon their families and [1:46:33] abandon their responsibilities at the very same time we began to see drifting away from religious [1:46:37] more religious principles and from religion as a whole that trend is continuing today and look [1:46:41] at the look at the economic and the societal problems that are caused when we don't have some [1:46:45] sort of ultimate ontological i don't think you're going to be able to prove that these two things [1:46:49] are connected i i wouldn't need you to provide i did with the civil rights movement provide anything for [1:46:52] that like literally anything for you are not going to be able to say that because we incentivize for [1:46:58] like christian heterosexual marriages and that we don't do that now that they're decreasing i don't [1:47:03] see how they are decreasing right but you cannot say that these two things are you cannot say that [1:47:07] these two things are connected right you can say that the reason marriage overall has been going down [1:47:11] is because people don't make enough money to afford a rank people don't make it people don't want to [1:47:15] get married anymore it is unnecessary for people to get married that's why we also see like increased [1:47:19] divorce because no i would also excuse me women in general don't even need men people don't see [1:47:23] the need to get married anymore before marriage was a economic sorry not economic a financial [1:47:28] contract between two bodies now it is a simple one second baby what now it is a symbol of love [1:47:34] right people don't necessarily always no it wasn't so marriage wasn't always to some degree a symbol [1:47:39] it was not you'd have to justify that because i don't know um the entire like british monarchy [1:47:46] i said you're talking about british i'm talking about the united states of america i'm not talking [1:47:50] about what we what we left these countries do but you just asked me to give you an example that's [1:47:54] an example of a agreement well i should have specified i meant within the united states my [1:47:57] apologies people wait a minute so people still don't have like dowries and things in the united states [1:48:01] i'm sure yeah they do don't have a branch marriage in the united states not quite not as often as [1:48:05] they do it doesn't matter i'm asking you if it happens sure i don't know why you asked me that [1:48:09] anyway so like i was saying before you would have to provide like an actual causal link between [1:48:14] these two things because that's just not my content no you didn't baby my contention my [1:48:19] contention right is the fact that you as a christian want to appropriate the definition of marriage even [1:48:25] though that concept has existed far beyond christianity not in the same way though which [1:48:30] is exactly what i'm what do you mean in the same way between two people yes it has so what culture are [1:48:36] you saying practice monogamous marriage in the same way that the american christians humans are a lot [1:48:41] of humans are just typically naturally monogamous are you saying that this has never happened before [1:48:45] christianity are you saying no that's not what i'm saying i'm asking specifically what i should [1:48:50] have asked it this way what nation has practiced monogamy at the same i wouldn't know this particular [1:48:54] nation well that's what that's that's what i'm saying why would i need to know the particular [1:48:57] nation because what i'm getting at is the scope and scale of which the united states practiced [1:49:00] monogamy led to the strongest nuclear family especially for the most affected race in this country [1:49:06] being black people and that was rooted in that was rooted in religion that was rooted in religion [1:49:10] i'm sorry what do you mean by the strongest nuclear family the black excuse me i said the [1:49:13] black nuclear family was at its strongest when religion was at the epicenter of our [1:49:17] worldview that's what i'm saying right but that doesn't mean that marriage is also attributed to [1:49:21] that you could say that because they were christian they know about the concept of marriage but that [1:49:24] doesn't mean that marriage is where that comes from i'm saying that many people that comes from no [1:49:28] i'm saying that many people that are christians get married because that's what we're commanded to [1:49:31] do as christians and when we follow that when we follow those things that leads to some of the [1:49:35] highest levels of productivity it leads to lower mental health rates among children leads to better [1:49:39] education for kids it leads to children having less mental health issues less disciplinary problems [1:49:44] there's so many okay so if we care about these things if we were if it were the case that we [1:49:47] were to actualize what you want here do you not see that how this is like a separate but equal [1:49:50] type policy right and uh yeah yeah what was the results of like the separate but equal policies [1:49:55] amongst black people well there they weren't equal but that's because one of them is described to [1:49:59] race and we're talking about something completely different we can't right that's the entire [1:50:01] point of the analogy baby yeah but you're trying to conflate two things that i'm not conflating anything [1:50:05] i'm asking you one of them was i asked you a direct question separate but equal didn't work back [1:50:09] then why didn't it work because it wasn't actually it was separate but it was never actually equal [1:50:13] what i'm saying is okay so you're so you're saying that in the society where we separate uh marriage [1:50:18] between uh uh hetero people and and homosexual people right what before let me let me say this [1:50:24] in 2004 before massachusetts is started recognizing what were they called they were called civil unions [1:50:29] barack obama talked about right so i'm just saying and how are people with civil unions treated [1:50:33] i don't know they weren't treated well that's the entire point based on what standard that's [1:50:38] on what standard because when you go into certain spaces right and also civil unions change like [1:50:42] whether or not you were married change based upon where you were so if you had to move to [1:50:45] right right i'm not disagreeing with that right i'm saying now and then on top of that they still face [1:50:51] increased social discrimination because of the fact that despite the fact that they may get the same [1:50:55] rights socially they're going to be treated differently we saw this i'm saying that we saw this in the [1:51:01] separate but equal we saw it back then we saw that back then in the 60s what i'm asking is do you [1:51:08] think in 2026 as modernized as america has become do you actually believe people would still be [1:51:12] discriminated against absolutely with the fact with the fact that republicans have poured what [1:51:17] 215 million dollars into anti-trans ads into anti-queer ads of course what are you talking about [1:51:25] you're going to deny that those ads influence how people think it changed elections by the double digits [1:51:30] what evidence do you have to support that that was the entire like russian collusion thing [1:51:34] that was the but but they found like no evidence of russian collusion no no the city okay you need [1:51:39] to understand this citizens united do you know what that is absolutely right so you know that uh that [1:51:44] supreme court case gave people uh gave corporations the same level of free speech as you would not [1:51:48] correct yes which i think needs to be overturned why do you think it needs to be overturned austin [1:51:52] because citizens united allows corporations to buy politicians which is right corporations from here [1:51:56] and where all over exactly so that's what i'm talking about so it doesn't even matter where this [1:52:01] is coming from right it could come from companies from outside the united states funding packs within [1:52:06] the united states to influence people to be against gay people that has changed elections you like this [1:52:11] is why this is why like the left and the right doesn't even actually know the types of people that [1:52:16] are in these two different groups because we are consistently lied to by these packs it has changed [1:52:21] the political uh our political conversations it has completely bastardized our public squares can [1:52:27] we at least agree can we at least agree here that if we overturn citizens united and if we got [1:52:33] billionaires and millionaires out of the business of running the game of politics and purchasing [1:52:37] politicians that we might be having at some point a different i think we'd be having more of an honest [1:52:41] conversation because at the very least most of the stances or more of the stances that we have are [1:52:45] going to be influenced by americans to americans not americans and russians not americans and israelis [1:52:51] not americans and chinese people like that's i'm all for that i'm listen i'm not pro russia russia [1:52:55] russia not at all never pro russia russia russia but i i would i would i would grant you that i [1:53:00] would grant you that if we we would have a more i think political discourse in this country would [1:53:04] absolutely be more honest if you got the money out of it because again the love of money is the root of [1:53:07] all evil all right pause that's all the time we have for today thank you and austin thank you so much [1:53:15] for joining the circle it was an honor to be here it was a pleasure all right and thank you guys for [1:53:19] watching at home please let us know your thoughts in the comments sound off and we'll see you next [1:53:24] time now anyone that watches the video anyone has watched my content they're going to see austin is [1:53:32] probably one of the most pro-black conservatives that exists you get used to being mislabeled when [1:53:35] you sit in my position there's a lot i wanted to say to santana that i didn't get a chance to he was an [1:53:39] outright liar he was calling me things that he couldn't prove he crafts his positions very well [1:53:45] so people were looking to kind of superimpose what they thought on him and he doesn't actually do [1:53:50] that he says the things that he says and he he stays on his square i think he is a very intellectual [1:53:56] debater and he is very quick on his feet i think he is one of the more reasonable conservatives being [1:54:02] a black conservative comes with allowing for yourself to experience a level of subjugation and [1:54:06] i just haven't seen that with austin that's why i like talking to him it's so interesting to me that [1:54:09] liberals have a problem with me being conservative because i'm black as if to say that the color of my [1:54:13] skin defines my political ideology or that it's supposed to the color of someone's skin should not ever [1:54:18] dictate their political ideology but that's what the left tried to make happen especially if you saw [1:54:22] the surprise on their faces in this conversation