billionaire Epstein associate WALK OUT of interview after getting subpoenaed — COMPILATION

[0:00] California Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, [0:05] was just in that interview with Leon Black. He joins us now. Congressman, tell us what happened. [0:11] Look, at the end of the day, Leon Black is critical to this investigation. [0:15] $150 million from Leon Black went to Jeffrey Epstein. [0:19] There are survivors that we know have actually accused Mr. Black of really serious crimes and abuse. [0:26] And the fact that he won't answer questions with relating to these NDAs is huge. [0:31] And for us, for this investigation, what the chairman is doing right now is important. [0:36] These subpoenas will ensure that we get the NDAs, but also ensure that we actually get Leon Black in front of our committee, [0:42] under subpoena and under oath, so that he actually has to answer these questions. [0:47] These interviews should all be under oath. [0:49] And the fact right now that we're actually going to get Mr. Black under oath is really important. [0:53] So we actually commend Chairman Comer's decision here. [0:56] It's what Democrats have been asking for this entire time, is under oath depositions. [1:01] And so right now, we're actually waiting for Leon Black to make a decision whether he's going to continue, whether he's not. [1:07] He's been meeting with his lawyers, but the attorneys have been doing a good job of asking tough questions, questions he won't answer. [1:14] OK, let's talk about those tough questions, especially since this conversation is still happening, playing out in real time. [1:21] What are the questions you want to ask of Leon Black? [1:23] Look, we need to ask Leon Black where and why he gave Jeffrey Epstein $150 million and for what? [1:32] Because at the end of the day, we do not know. [1:34] We also now know that Leon Black is essentially ending this interview because he's being asked for information about these NDAs, [1:40] about these women, these women that were abused, that were targeted. [1:46] And so there's a lot of information that he has. [1:48] Look, we're just hearing right now that Mr. Black is probably going to walk out of this interview. [1:52] He's no longer going to continue. [1:54] What he needs to understand is that we're going to continue to be able to answer these questions because he's going to have to come back to us under subpoena. [2:00] Yeah, I think that's going to be really important. [2:02] I'm sorry, Congressman. [2:03] Did you have an opportunity to sidebar with Chairman Comer in advance of his decision, his announcement that he was going to issue these subpoenas? [2:10] We've been communicating with Mr. Comer the entire time. [2:13] So I think he's doing the right thing here. [2:15] But I think right now I'm glad that Leon Black has been able to come back under subpoena and answer our questions. [2:21] And so I actually think he's going to be coming out here right now in a minute. [2:26] We'll keep our cameras trained on him. [2:29] Turn your mic on. [2:33] That is Leon Black walking towards our cameras. [2:38] He is refusing to continue this interview. [2:42] He has now been issued subpoena by the chair of the House Oversight Committee. [2:48] We will check in with our own Michael Schnell on the other side to see if he was willing to answer questions of reporters. [2:55] Congressman, I want to come back to you because one of the women who accused Epstein of abuse in the files also said he directed her to give massages to Black. [3:03] And to others, Black categorically denied abuse allegations in his testimony. [3:09] He said he was not aware of any, quote, nefarious activity from Epstein until he was charged with trafficking in 2019. [3:16] Still, he hired him after his 2008 conviction for solicitation of a minor for prostitution. [3:21] Were you able to address any of this in the time you've had with him? [3:27] Mr. Black, I want to answer questions. [3:29] I think what you just saw right now is exactly why this investigation is so important. [3:35] There are two men that provided most of the financial support to Jeffrey Epstein. [3:39] One is Les Wexner, and the other, of course, is Leon Black. [3:43] And the idea that Leon Black won't answer questions about these multiple NDAs, the fact that he won't answer questions about survivors and women that have made serious accusations, that is why he will now have to come in under oath. [3:57] And I want to just say this is, I think, important for people to understand. [3:59] A lot of these interviews are not conducted under oath. [4:02] It's been a complaint from Democrats. [4:05] We want these interviews under oath so they have to actually answer the questions and have to be truthful. [4:10] And so I think for Chairman Comer to make the decision and to switch strategy and to actually ask Leon Black to actually be under oath and answer questions, I think is actually an important step. [4:21] I'm glad that's finally happening, and that should be the case for every single interview. [4:26] Only the majority, in this case Republicans in the House, have the ability to issue subpoenas unless there's a bipartisan vote. [4:33] So this is a good moment for this investigation. [4:35] And Leon Black is at the center of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. [4:40] He was very friendly with them. [4:42] They were described as being best friends. [4:44] And he has an enormous amount of information. [4:45] I will add one other thing. [4:47] There's reporting that Leon Black also possibly traveled with President Trump. [4:50] There's connections to Russia. [4:52] There's connections to trafficking. [4:53] So all this information has got to come out. [4:56] This is the work you are doing inside the House Oversight Committee. [5:01] In tandem, you have a federal judge recently ordered the Justice Department to produce an unredacted, even more Epstein file, saying it has not fully complied with the Epstein Transparency Act. [5:15] How does that potentially change the nature of what you're doing inside House Oversight? [5:20] Look, we are incredibly supportive and grateful for all the different lawsuits and the different actions that are being taken by the courts. [5:29] I mean, just recently, obviously, the fact that now we have a judge talking about standing, the ability for journalists to actually get information to sue to ensure that all the files are released is so important. [5:42] Look, only 50% of the Epstein files have been actually released to the public. [5:48] About 3 million documents, half of the Epstein files, have not been released to the public. [5:55] Why? [5:55] What's in those? [5:57] What information is critical to our investigation that's been hidden by the Department of Justice? [6:01] It's for these reasons that Todd Blanche, Cash Patel, and so many others need to be in front of our committee, but in front of our committee under oath. [6:09] And I'm so glad that Leon Black, who has been at the center of this investigation and our work, will now have to come back under oath. [6:17] We had an enormous amount of questions for him, and I'm glad we're going to be able to answer those with the security of an under oath testimony. [6:24] We begin with a federal judge doing something that is rocking the Trump DOJ, ordering DOJ to release even more Epstein files, including unredacted ones that could come within a week. [6:37] Its response, in response to a filing, alleging DOJ failed to comply with the Epstein law. [6:43] We all remember how that went. [6:45] There were delays. [6:45] There were redactions. [6:46] There were mistakes. [6:47] This is new, though, and this involves the work of intrepid journalists, survivors, other critics who have stayed on the case. [6:53] The judge ruling that because the underlying lawsuit made these valid claims, and the acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, on behalf of Trump, didn't really engage, didn't respond substantively to those valid legal arguments. [7:05] He effectively, and this is where strong-arming the courts can backfire on Trump, the judge found that they effectively, quote, conceded violation of the act. [7:15] That's the Epstein law. [7:17] So the DOJ has until the end of next week to release the records or go back to court. [7:21] And this comes at a time where the ongoing pressure has coordinated. [7:26] In other words, that lawsuit was going. [7:28] The judge decided when to rule. [7:29] But what you see today on your screen is another big day of blockbuster testimony happening on Capitol Hill, the scandal roaring back despite Trump's best efforts to get Republicans to stand down. [7:42] Well, Trump has failed on that. [7:44] Billionaire Leon Black went into a closed-doors interview. [7:47] And if you want to get a sense of whether it mattered, whether he was facing uncomfortable, tough questions, well, he stormed out of there before it was over. [7:56] So more on that tonight, and our guests will break it down. [7:59] But just to remind you, Black was such a key figure in Epstein's orbit because while other people came and went, some said they had no idea what was going on or they never exchanged money, Black was a much bigger deal. [8:10] The Times reporting Epstein's friendship with Black was basically, quote, the most important relationship he had with someone in that rich and powerful circle. [8:20] There were other rich and powerful people. [8:21] Some of them had sporadic contact or, you know, a group dinner here or there that many of those people have now said they regret. [8:26] But this was, according to the Times, the most important. [8:29] Black kept Epstein afloat financially, even after the 2008 conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor. [8:36] And all of that is context for how today, all these years later, because of all the things we've all lived through as a country, the pressure on Trump, the way this became a bipartisan issue, [8:46] the way that even after the documents, the files came out, members of Congress kept pushing. [8:51] And I should mention, including some Republicans who crossed Trump on this because they said it mattered. [8:56] All of that leading up until this day with the pressure on Black to do something that he dodged largely, which was appearing in this kind of high stakes testimony. [9:05] And he didn't want to answer these questions. [9:08] He didn't want to get into alleged hush money payments. [9:10] He didn't really have great answers, as I'll show you about why he paid so many millions, over $160 million, to Epstein. [9:17] And there was a general sense that he was dodgy. [9:22] We have had many of these depositions and interviews. [9:25] And this is the first time as someone actually walked out in the middle of it. [9:29] This is also the first time I heard someone gush poetically about how smart and how great Jeffrey Epstein was. [9:35] It's also clear that Mr. Black knew of Epstein's past conviction and plea deal and also was unbothered by it. [9:44] Leon Black was arrogant. He was smug. He refused to answer the questions. [9:50] That's the view of several of the Democratic lawmakers. [9:55] Now, to give you the accurate full picture, Black and his lawyers arranged for him to come in voluntarily. [10:00] Now, that would be a good thing if he voluntarily participated throughout. [10:06] But it looks a lot more like a kind of a bait and switch because he came in voluntarily, but then wouldn't answer questions, including foreseeable questions. [10:14] There is documentation about him sending money to women related to the Epstein case. [10:20] There is reporting that there may be NDAs. [10:22] The thing about reporting on NDAs, though, is if you don't actually get a hold of them and both parties have legal agreements and sanctions and hanging over them to not admit them, it can be hard to get to the bottom of that. [10:33] But these were not kind of oddball, unfair, random questions. [10:37] These are the kind of things that you would expect a participating witness to prepare for, refresh their memory, talk to their lawyers and answer. [10:44] Instead, Black was, according to many, and the Republicans and Democrats appear to agree on this point, dodging things and not willing to get into those NDAs and non-disclosure hush money agreements at all. [10:56] And so that led to this very unusual development where basically during the interview, he got a legal subpoena. [11:03] That's them kind of calling his move and saying, yeah, you said you'd come in voluntarily, but we have methods to make you talk. [11:10] We are Congress. [11:11] People go to jail sometimes for violating subpoenas. [11:13] You probably remember Navarro and other cases. [11:16] So they gave him that, telling this billionaire they're going to be tough. [11:19] Top Democrat Robert Garcia discussing that. [11:24] We actually commend Chairman Comer's decision here. [11:27] It's what Democrats have been asking for. [11:29] These subpoenas will ensure that we get the NDAs, but also ensure that we actually get Leon Black in front of our committee, under subpoena and under oath. [11:38] He actually has to answer these questions. [11:41] These interviews should all be under oath. [11:43] Two quick points there on substance using actual pressure with teeth to get more information about this. [11:54] That's the substance of subpoenaing someone even who tried to, with his fancy lawyers and big plans, tried to use a voluntary appearance to maybe just get by this. [12:02] So that's substantively what's happening, pressure on the politics, and Congress is full of politics. [12:07] What you just heard was a Democrat, quote, commending a Republican on that committee for using those tactics, which is a reminder that for all of the partisan rancor and all the failures that we've seen, this issue does seem to go differently. [12:20] But Mr. Garcia, who I just showed you there, has been on this program. [12:23] He's talked about how they want to work whichever way they can, including with Republicans who are willing to go forward on an investigative basis. [12:30] Now, that doesn't include Trump or Blanche, Republicans who have been fighting this tooth and nail. [12:35] But if it, excuse me, if it includes Chairman Comer today, well, you're seeing that bipartisanship, at least on this subpoena issue. [12:42] Now, we did hear from Blanche, and as always, I want to tell you what he's saying. [12:47] I showed you the criticism of him. [12:48] I showed you the pressure. [12:49] But this is also a time for learning. [12:51] And just like any court case, you want to learn both sides to make up your own mind. [12:56] But if you think of Blanche here as the kind of civil witness in this process, here's what he was saying. [13:02] He claims he was duped by Epstein, that over $60 million was actually basically tricked out of him, even though he is supposed to be a pretty sophisticated banker, [13:10] that financial advisory fees he was told were tax deductible, so he thought they would actually cost him a lot less. [13:16] Now, let me pause right there. [13:18] That's his defense of forking up tens of millions of dollars for these tax services. [13:25] But it's not really conceivable that someone at the top of the financial industry, a billionaire with hordes of lawyers, [13:34] lawyers at his capital firm, personal lawyers, civil lawyers, been around the block a couple decades, done big deals, [13:40] that he wrongly thought that business services would be tax deductible, like some kind of charitable donation. [13:46] Any lawyer, anyone in finance knows all about that and wouldn't really fall for that. [13:52] So I'll tell you what he said, but I'll also tell you the strength and the credibility of that particular defense. [13:58] Now, he's also denying the wrongdoing or knowledge of Epstein's criminal conduct. [14:01] And we should note he has not been pursued criminally thus far. [14:05] Blanche's ties to Epstein, though, are deep. [14:07] The phrase, quote, please call Leon Black, appears over 300 times in the Epstein files. [14:13] So either you believe these two men were constantly discussing tax policy or there were calls about other things. [14:20] Then there's that money I mentioned already that Black said he thought it was less, [14:23] but the actual total charge was about $170 million across six years. [14:28] So either you believe that that was all for tax services and you could have a pretty big tax bill and still not want to pay $170 million to avoid it. [14:37] You might just put that money towards the bill. [14:39] But either you believe that or, as these investigators have said, there's more to the story. [14:44] Because the Times reporting suggests that Epstein was doing other non-tax services for Black, including being a type of fixer. [14:52] What that actually means and entails is still under investigation. [14:56] The Times also reporting that Epstein did do that financial work, that despite his financial dependency, Epstein believed he still had power in the relationship. [15:05] The pressure campaign appeared to work. [15:07] Black, one of the richest Wall Street figures, continued to fork over tens of millions of dollars. [15:11] So reading between the lines there, the Times is suggesting that perhaps, it's not proven, [15:16] but perhaps there were reasons that that money was changing hands beyond the just-claimed tax services. [15:23] Now again, I told you we're going to tell you both sides of this right before we bring in our guests. [15:27] One of Black's lawyers tells the Times that the payments to Epstein were all tax and estate planning services. [15:34] And, just to get this on record, they added to imply that Epstein somehow had influence over Mr. Black is false and patently absurd. [15:43] That's reporting from the Times, and we are joined by Deputy Investigations Editor from the New York Times, David Enrich, [15:49] who has covered Black and Epstein's relationship extensively, as well as many other facets of this. [15:54] And another reporter who's worked on this story quite a bit, Tara Palmieri, veteran journalist, author of the Red Letter on Substack, [16:00] and host of the Tara Palmieri podcast. [16:03] Welcome to both of you. [16:05] David, you and your colleagues reporting is paramount here. [16:09] I mentioned that we do want to reflect the denials. [16:12] There was also a clear clash over the scope of testimony today. [16:15] Given that you've been so deep in this, one, where does Black fit into the Epstein circle? [16:22] Just big picture to remind people. [16:23] And then two, what stood out to you, or what did you learn today? [16:28] Well, the Black relationship is arguably one of the very most important relationships that Epstein had. [16:36] And Black was the single biggest financial contributor to Epstein probably ever, but certainly in the years after he was convicted of a sex crime and had to register as a sex offender. [16:47] So he played an absolutely indispensable role in keeping Epstein afloat, allowing him to continue to abuse women, young women, and also maintain this very extravagant lifestyle. [16:59] And the thing that surprised me about today's hearing is that it was very odd to me that Black was willing to go in there voluntarily in the first place. [17:08] He's been extremely tight-lipped and uncooperative with requests to better understand the nature and extent of his relationship with Epstein. [17:17] And the notion that he was going to go in there and just voluntarily, happily answer everything for lawmakers really surprised me. [17:23] And it turned out that was not at all what he intended to do. [17:27] And now I guess he's going to have to do that under threat of, you know, contempt of Congress. [17:34] Today, a pretty crucial figure in the Jeffrey Epstein investigation was on Capitol Hill. [17:37] It's this guy, billionaire investor Leon Black. [17:41] He was Epstein's main source of income for several years. [17:44] Black paid Epstein over $150 million for what he described as tax and estate planning, which is a lot more than what he would have paid other more established firms. [17:55] Black met voluntarily with the House Oversight Committee today, but the meeting went off the rails after he refused to answer questions about allegations that he signed nondisclosure agreements with women who were linked to Epstein. [18:06] Just an hour, one hour into the meeting, the committee's Republican chairman stepped out to announce they were issuing subpoenas to Black right then and there. [18:13] I have just issued two subpoenas to Mr. Black, one for all the NDAs that he is party to, and second for a deposition on July 16th. [18:31] The NDAs are between him and other women. [18:33] We want to know, was Jeffrey Epstein involved in the NDAs? [18:39] Was he involved in writing? [18:42] Was he involved in awarding funds to the women for the NDAs? [18:50] What was the reason for the NDAs? [18:55] We want to know everything about the NDAs. [18:56] So that's very important in our investigation. [19:00] Not long after that, Black and his attorney walked out. [19:03] There they go, marking an abrupt end to his voluntary interview. [19:06] Black has long denied being involved in Epstein's criminal actions, and that is just one of the Epstein developments today. [19:14] The other is that a judge has now ordered acting attorney general Todd Blanch to produce more unredacted files on Epstein, [19:20] including notes from FBI interviews with a woman who accused Donald Trump of sexually abusing her when she was a teenager after Epstein allegedly introduced them. [19:31] Trump has long denied any wrongdoing related to Epstein. [19:34] Joining us now is the person who filed the lawsuit that led to the judge's order, my friend Katie Fang, who is a trial lawyer and an independent journalist. [19:41] Also with us is Joyce Vance, a former U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Alabama. [19:45] She is a law professor at the University of Alabama and the author of Civil Discourse on Substack. [19:50] Good to see both of you. [19:52] Katie, tell us about your lawsuit and this judge's ruling granting your motion. [19:55] What exactly, what type of unredacted files are you most interested in seeing the Justice Department produce now? [20:02] Well, Jacob, it's good to see you and especially to be here with Joyce. [20:05] My lawsuit is very clear. I just want the Department of Justice to follow the law. [20:11] I'm not asking for anything more, but I'm certainly never going to take anything less than what the law requires. [20:16] And the files that I'm specifically looking for are all of them. [20:20] The lawsuit seeks the release of the properly redacted files. [20:25] But in this immediate instance, this motion for preliminary injunction that was just granted by federal judge Emmett Sullivan, [20:33] we identified specific emails where the sender and the recipient, their names and their email addresses have been improperly redacted, [20:42] or at least it appears that they are. [20:44] And the reason why, Jacob, nobody really knows is the required redaction log that the Epstein Files Transparency Act was telling the DOJ that they had to do has never been done. [20:55] So that is another component of my preliminary injunction that has been granted. [20:59] But you did note that there are missing interview notes by the FBI that we know existed, at least at some point in time, [21:06] that deal with an allegation by a woman who says that she was just 13 years old when she was physically and sexually battered by Donald Trump. [21:16] Where are those interview notes? We haven't even gotten them in a redacted form. [21:20] And there's also foreign language documents, Jacob, that, according to Todd Blanche, they didn't even bother to try to translate. [21:27] He said, we didn't have capacity to do so. [21:30] And yet we know that this was a multi-decade international sex trafficking child rape ring. [21:35] And the fact that the DOJ thinks that we, and specifically me as a journalist, [21:40] am just supposed to take it as it comes, just goes to show their level of arrogance. [21:44] Judge Sullivan noted in his 48-page order that Todd Blanche conceded that he has violated the Epstein Files Transparency Act. [21:54] And I think somebody who wants to be the permanent attorney general of the United States should be required to obey the law. [22:01] I'm so glad, Katie, that you mentioned that, because this is exactly what I want to ask you about, Joyce. [22:04] I'm looking at it here. The judge said that the Justice Department, the word exactly, as Katie said, [22:08] was conceded violating the Epstein Files Transparency Act, passed by Congress, signed by the president. [22:13] But a Justice Department spokesperson said that Todd Blanche, quote, has not conceded anything and that Judge Sullivan's perverse interpretation appears to be focused on driving misleading headlines. [22:23] This judge is suggesting DOJ violate the law by unredacting victims' names, who, as the department has always explained, sadly became co-conspirators. [22:31] DOJ has produced all responsive documents and will appeal this decision with confidence. [22:35] Your reaction? [22:36] I worked for a Justice Department that didn't insult federal judges after they made decisions in the cases in front of them based upon the evidence. [22:47] And I think it's still shocking to hear that. [22:50] It's become somewhat predictable, and particularly in this setting involving the Epstein Files. [22:55] Where Katie's lawsuit, you know, let's just brag on our friend for a minute and say that this is a nice piece of litigation. [23:02] It's very narrowly tailored. [23:04] It asks at this stage with the injunction for the release of a very specific universe of documents that were either over-redacted or improperly withheld in the original release of the files. [23:16] Because the Transparency Act is very clear. [23:19] It says DOJ cannot withhold documents to protect, for instance, important, well-connected men in Donald Trump's orbit. [23:28] So all of this stuff is properly disclosable. [23:32] And when the judge makes this point that the Justice Department has conceded that, he's basing that on the fact that they challenged the legal basis for Katie's lawsuit. [23:42] They say she used the wrong statute. [23:44] She should have used the Freedom of Information Act, not proceeding under the Administrative Procedure Act. [23:51] Right. [23:52] And the judge says, well, that's wrong. [23:55] But here's another thing about how DOJ operates. [23:57] You don't just make one argument and then walk away. [24:01] You don't just make that threshold legal argument and walk away. [24:04] You argue in the alternative. [24:05] And you say, well, Your Honor, even if we're wrong about that and she's entitled to proceed under the APA, we still don't believe we have to turn over these documents. [24:15] And you lay out your reasons. [24:17] The reason the judge says DOJ conceded here is because they didn't lay out any reasons that they didn't have to turn over these specific items. [24:25] That, I think, is very telling. [24:27] It would have been tough to make that argument because they all fall clearly within the dictates of the Transparency Act. [24:34] The judge pointed that out. [24:36] You know, DOJ doesn't like it. [24:37] They're engaging in name-calling. [24:39] That's still not a response to the substantive arguments that we're winners here. [24:44] And not only are they engaging in name-calling, but they're making those secret, or at least it certainly sounds like they plan to appeal this. [24:50] Katie, what are you—why are they so opposed to releasing these unredacted files? [24:53] What is your theory? [24:54] I don't know, Jacob, maybe we should go to the Situation Room to have a conversation over why they don't want to release this. [25:01] I mean, that reporting combined with the fact that it has now been more than six months since December 19th of 2025, [25:08] which is the date by which the law required the Department of Justice to comply with the law, [25:14] just shows a level of disregard for the rule of law that we have seen time and time again from this Trump DOJ. [25:21] But I want to make something clear. [25:23] The desire to bring this lawsuit—this was—my hand was forced, Jacob, because as a journalist, [25:29] I cannot do my job, and more importantly, I cannot deliver the facts to the public [25:34] and to the victims and survivors of Epstein, Maxwell, and others so that they can also pursue investigative leads. [25:41] It is the greatest stain on American history that a multi-decade sex trafficking ring involving children being raped resulted in only two prosecutions thus far, [25:52] one of whom is now dead. [25:54] And I think that we look at other countries like France and England, and we see them picking up the laboring oar to continue to try to find culpability and accountability where it lies. [26:04] And yet our country, which is supposed to be the greatest in the world, according to Donald Trump, [26:09] doesn't even know how to abide by the law. [26:12] If the Department of Justice can't do it, then this is something that we have to actually force them to do. [26:17] Well, watching Comer come out after Leon Black went in there today, [26:22] Joyce, I want to ask you about what happened there. [26:24] Politico reported just yesterday that Oversight Committee members were considering issuing subpoenas—this is what it said—quote, [26:30] to find out about the NDAs between Jeffrey Epstein's friends and his victims. [26:35] Your take on the significance of all of this? [26:38] Well, Katie and I have both been there as prosecutors, right? [26:41] You try to get a voluntary statement out of a witness, for starters. [26:46] But sometimes you find yourself in a situation where the witness isn't being truthful, and things go south pretty quickly. [26:52] What we saw today looks exactly like that. [26:55] You know, this is not the Democrats on the Oversight Committee demanding subpoenas. [27:00] This is the Republican leadership issuing them. [27:03] Strong suggestion is that they were very uncomfortable with Black's testimony once he was in the room. [27:09] The fact that they focused on the NDAs goes to the heart of the matter that's at issue in Katie's lawsuit. [27:16] This is about people who were victims. [27:18] And although DOJ is now trying to recharacterize them as co-conspirators, [27:23] inside of the Justice Department, this is a very sensitive issue in human trafficking cases. [27:28] And the reality is that people who are victims should be treated like victims. [27:33] Now the committee will have the opportunity to get to the bottom of that. [27:37] Katie Fang and Joyce Vance, thank you both so much. [27:40] It's good to see you. [27:40] Appreciate it. [27:44] Today was Follow the Money Day in the House Oversight Committee's Epstein investigation, [27:49] taking the recommendation of Democratic Senate Finance Committee Ranking Member Ron Wyden. [27:54] Billionaire Leon Black, the former CEO of Apollo Global Management, [27:59] was on Capitol Hill this morning for a closed-door interview about his financial [28:02] and personal relationship with child rapist Jeffrey Epstein. [28:06] Black has denied any wrongdoing with regards to Epstein and says he paid Epstein for tax and real estate planning advice. [28:15] But the House Oversight Committee didn't get much out of him today. [28:19] When Black tried to stonewall, the committee slapped him with two subpoenas right then and there. [28:26] MSNOW reports House Oversight Committee Chair and Congressman James Comer subpoenaed billionaire investor [28:31] Leon Black on Friday, saying he had refused to answer questions about allegations that he signed [28:37] non-disclosure agreements with women tied to Jeffrey Epstein. [28:40] One subpoena is for Black to appear for a deposition under oath on July 16th, [28:46] and the other is for the NDAs he allegedly signed with women in Epstein's orbit, said Comer. [28:54] Both Chairman Comer and Congressman Robert Garcia, the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, [28:59] spoke to reporters after Leon Black's terse interview. [29:02] There's no question that as soon as this interview started that the witness was not going to answer critical questions. [29:10] I mean, when you have, when you ask questions about NDAs that relate directly to women and possible abuse [29:19] and you're unwilling to answer questions, I think we've got to elevate this. [29:23] And the reality is, is that Mr. Black was unwilling to have an important conversation. [29:28] And so the subpoena for the documents and the subpoena for him to appear [29:32] were absolutely the right moves and the right decision. [29:34] We need the NDAs to be able to move forward with the investigation. [29:39] I'm surprised that they knew what we needed when we came in here. [29:45] We were hoping we would get it. [29:46] We didn't. [29:47] So the subpoena has been issued and we're serious. [29:49] We're going to get those NDAs and he's going to answer questions. [29:53] Following today's interview, our next guest, Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw, [29:58] posted on social media, billionaire Leon Black thought he could avoid accountability [30:03] by refusing to answer questions and walking out. [30:06] Instead, he left with a subpoena. [30:08] The American people deserve answers. [30:11] We'll see you in July. [30:13] Joining us now is Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw of Virginia. [30:17] He is a member of the House Oversight Committee and was in today's closed door testimony. [30:22] Congressman, first, walk us through who Leon Black is in the Epstein web. [30:29] Leon Black was a close friend of Jeffrey Epstein, a close friend who paid Epstein $158 million [30:35] supposedly for tax and accounting advice, despite the fact that Epstein was neither a tax attorney [30:42] nor an accountant. [30:44] Leon Black also has been accused of sexual abuse by multiple Epstein survivors, [30:51] and he paid some of those survivors to sign NDAs. [30:54] Those NDAs were the subject of today's interview and the reason for the subpoenas that were issued today. [31:03] What questions did you want Leon Black to answer today? [31:08] I wanted to answer questions about the circumstances surrounding the NDAs, [31:13] whether Jeffrey Epstein had any involvement in the NDAs. [31:17] There are some emails in the files between Jeffrey Epstein and his lawyers suggesting that [31:25] Epstein was surveilling women on Leon Black's behest. [31:31] I'd like to ask questions about that. [31:34] But fundamentally, Leon Black is the subject of a number of very serious, incredible allegations of sexual abuse. [31:42] No one has gotten to the bottom of those, primarily because of the NDAs, [31:47] and our committee is working hard to get to the bottom of those allegations. [31:52] Last week, staffers from the House Oversight and Judiciary Committees visited the federal prison [31:57] where Jeffrey Epstein's co-conspirator, convicted child sex trafficker, Glenn Maxwell, [32:03] was transferred following her interview with Todd Blanche when he was deputy AG, [32:09] a prison that has been compared to a summer camp. [32:13] What did those staffers see? [32:16] They saw the very cushy circumstances that Glenn Maxwell was transferred into [32:22] after her very out of the ordinary interview with then deputy attorney general Todd Blanche. [32:31] What they didn't learn there is why or how she was transferred. [32:36] And I think the reason they didn't learn that there at the prison is that [32:40] the decision was made in Washington to transfer her to that much more comfortable situation by Todd Blanche. [32:47] This week, MSNOW reports a federal judge ordered acting attorney general Todd Blanche [32:53] to produce more unredacted files related to Jeffrey Epstein [32:56] or demonstrate by next week why the Justice Department was justified in withholding or redacting the files at issue. [33:03] Congressman, with more, with three million Epstein files still yet to be released, [33:08] do you have any confidence that Todd Blanche will comply with this order? [33:14] Well, the Department of Justice already signaled today that they're going to appeal this order. [33:18] So I think that legal battle will continue. [33:20] But when you read the ruling from the judge today, it is crystal clear that Todd Blanche [33:26] and the Department of Justice broke the law. [33:29] They illegally redacted files. [33:32] I think there are a lot of reasons they illegally redacted files. [33:35] Certainly one of them was to prevent further embarrassment of the president, Donald J. Trump. [33:43] Congressman James Walkinshaw, the great Commonwealth of Virginia, [33:47] thank you, as always, for coming to the last word. [33:50] Thanks, Jonathan. [33:51] Here's the vice president last night comparing Donald Trump to Richard Nixon. [33:59] I'm actually fascinated by Nixon as a character in history. [34:04] I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so. [34:11] As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12-hour news story. [34:18] The idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy. [34:21] And, by the way, if you look at the story of how the deep state took down Richard Nixon, [34:30] it's not all that different from what the same groups of people, the same institutions, [34:36] tried to do to Donald Trump and the first Trump administration. [34:42] The sitting vice president, let me just say, is trying to rewrite history. [34:45] In his mind, what once was viewed as a constitutional crisis is now nothing more than just politics as usual. [34:52] Tonight, House Oversight member Congresswoman Yasemin Ansari is with us. [34:58] But first, I was, I think the J.D. Vance, that clip is very important and is very telling, [35:04] and it's not something people should just, again, laugh off and push to the side. [35:08] Because to compare what happened with Richard Nixon to Trump and say that it was just a deep state absolves Nixon from any wrongdoing. [35:18] It also just ignores the fact that people went to jail, that there were real reforms that happened after Watergate in Congress, [35:26] as well as within the Department of Justice because of what Richard Nixon did. [35:31] The man was nearly impeached and only was not impeached because members of his party went to the White House and said, [35:38] you need to resign or we'll impeach you. [35:40] So I just, he's trying to rewrite history to sanitize us so we're all okay once Trump does a little more. [35:45] I appreciate that so much. [35:48] And you know what? [35:49] I'm here to say I think a significant portion and an important significant portion of the American people do as well. [35:56] So the fact that you are reiterating it is important. [36:00] But here's number two. [36:02] Y'all know damn well there was no deep state that undid Richard Nixon. [36:07] Richard Nixon's own dumb behavior did him in. [36:12] Paranoid behavior. [36:12] His paranoid, greedy, aggressive, I want it all behavior did him in. [36:18] And let me be clear, on the record, what is doing Donald Trump in is the exact same greedy, demanding, uncontrolled, irreverent, disrespectful behavior as President of the United States. [36:31] There is no deep state, people. [36:33] Can you please stop that BS noise? [36:36] Because it doesn't exist the way you want to make it. [36:39] To your very point, the fact that J.D. Vance, who someone told me was an intelligent human being, [36:45] who someone told me went to institutions, which I would then would ask for those degrees back, [36:51] as he sits in a national audience talking this kind of crap, knowing damn well what happened. [36:56] I was there. [36:58] I saw it unfold. [36:59] I saw the reactions real time from my parents and neighbors and friends to what Richard Nixon did. [37:05] No one's in secret cubbies, Luke, talking about some damn deep state. [37:10] Actually, he was in the secret cubbies. [37:12] Right. [37:13] Thank you. [37:15] He was in the cubbies. [37:16] What is a common thing that we've seen in this administration is this idea that nothing matters. [37:23] Right. [37:24] January 6th doesn't matter. [37:25] It was just a little dust up of some patriots trying to be heard. [37:29] Richard Nixon and Watergate doesn't matter. [37:31] That was just a misunderstood situation where the president may have engaged in all these illegalities. [37:36] He may have fired a special prosecutor. [37:38] Remember the Saturday Night Massacre, [37:39] of which all these successive attorney generals resigned rather than carry out illegal orders? [37:44] No, none of that matters. [37:45] I come back to this week. [37:47] What has mattered for this administration? [37:50] The reflecting pool. [37:52] Someone putting their finger in the water of the reflecting pool. [37:57] We got to get the National Guard out. [37:59] We got to get these massive new AI security cameras down there. [38:03] We need to get out-of-state police down to the reflecting pool because that matters because the president's upset about it. [38:09] What doesn't matter? [38:11] The Epstein files. [38:12] The Epstein files that the king of England's brother got caught up in and had to lose his position. [38:18] The Epstein files that caused Bill Gates his marriage. [38:22] The Epstein files that caused the current prime minister of England a lot of headache that has basically led to his resignation. [38:28] There you go. [38:29] So all these things don't matter. [38:33] The reflecting pool does matter. [38:35] But it brings it back to the Epstein files. [38:36] Why doesn't that matter? [38:38] Because, frankly, the president said Jeffrey Epstein, or there's allegations, that they were best friends. [38:44] And we do know that the president said to him in a birthday message, what was the quote? [38:47] May every day be another wonderful secret. [38:50] I think that that would matter for the American people to know why the president of the United States has such a relationship with somebody who has taken down a prince, taken down one of the world's richest men, and taken down, to some degree, a prime minister. [39:03] I mean, Congresswoman, if we could bring you in here, because Luke makes such an important point. [39:08] And to be clear, the Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files was never just about Jeffrey Epstein. [39:13] It was about the—it's also about the network of wealthy and well-connected people that helped power his enterprise of pedophilia, to be—for lack of a better term. [39:27] Did you learn anything new today in the depositions? [39:29] Pardon me, not depositions, because there was no— [39:32] There was no— [39:32] Exactly. [39:34] Well, first of all, to the conversation you all were just having, we know Donald Trump is running an unprecedented criminal enterprise out of the White House. [39:41] Every day, they are doing corrupt things that are, you know—30 Watergates happen weekly with this administration. [39:50] And with the Epstein files in particular, you know, I believe this is the most egregious cover-up in American history. [39:58] And today, we had Leon Black. [40:00] Leon Black is somebody who gave Jeffrey Epstein $170 million after he was convicted in 2008. [40:08] So he was a known, you know, convicted child sex trafficker. [40:14] And—and Leon Black knew that. [40:16] He himself has horrific allegations against him, NDAs. [40:21] We—he was supposed to be in a transcribed interview. [40:23] We've had a number of these. [40:24] I mean, I've taken part in so many now. [40:26] And—and even though they are behind closed doors and technically not under oath, which, as oversight Democrats, we believe they—they 100 percent all should be. [40:34] We usually learn something, right? [40:36] And the people at least feign that they are cooperating. [40:40] Leon Black barely made it today through the Republican hour. [40:43] Typically, how— [40:44] Oh, it's crazy. [40:46] Oh, now, why did—well, can you tell us? [40:48] Why, what, hell? [40:48] Oh, my God. [40:50] What happened? [40:50] So the— [40:51] As much as you can share. [40:52] Couldn't hit the batting practice. [40:53] We can share—we can share all of it. [40:54] So, actually, so the first hour is—is Republicans, and it would have gone to a Dem hour. [40:58] And—and sometimes it goes on for seven hours, right? [41:01] During that first hour, I will say the Republican staff members today, the council, were—they were asking hard questions. [41:07] They were not going easy on Leon Black. [41:10] And once it got to the subject of his NDAs, because he had a number of NDAs with women associated with Jeffrey Epstein, who accused him, et cetera, he would confer with his lawyer and then, you know, say, we're not answering any questions as it pertained to this. [41:25] If I'm recalling correctly, he even left the room to discuss it and then came back, said they're not going to talk about it. [41:31] And then—and then that's when the Republican chairman, James Comer, issued two subpoenas because it's just unacceptable. [41:41] I mean, again, we've done these before. [41:43] I have not found people like Howard Lutnick or Les Wexner credible, but they—they've gone through the process. [41:49] They have—they have taken part, you know—it needs to be under oath, but they've taken part. [41:55] This guy, it was—it was clear, you know, he—he was not going to answer any questions. [41:59] So two subpoenas, one for the NDA, one to have him come back under oath. [42:03] So this is big. [42:05] I think hopefully it sets a precedent for the Republicans that every single one of these interviews needs to be in the form of a public hearing. [42:12] And that's why when we take the majority, we need to bring every single one of these people we've had already back in front of the committee.