Trump's corruption, weak morals raise concern about expected 'pardoning blitz'

[0:00] So far, we are at six, which is a long way from 250, but it is only 736 on the eve before 4th of July. [0:08] And President Trump basically says, he said, tell us not that much about these six people, I should say, today. [0:14] Unfortunately, I can't tell you that much else about the pardons because the White House hasn't released official information about them. [0:22] We only know the names of five of the six people right now because their lawyer told CBS News about it. [0:28] So there's that. The president says they were originally prosecuted for fixing their car. [0:33] That's his description. And CBS News reported earlier today that the president was considering pardoning people found guilty of violating the Clean Air Act. [0:41] So that's where we are now. Also up for consideration is a pardon for Sean Diddy Combs, who was convicted on two federal charges related to prostitution. [0:50] And these pardons today are presumably just the beginning of what could be a big, massive pardoning blitz from the president, [0:57] who reportedly, again, is considering whether to issue 250 pardons as kind of a spectacle surrounding the country's 250th birthday. [1:07] It all just screams happy birthday, America, doesn't it? 250 pardons. [1:11] Now, of course, the president has full authority over who gets a pardon. It's in the Constitution. [1:16] But there are guidelines in place to make sure the process, it's supposed to be fair and free of bias and free of corruption. [1:23] For one thing, there's a job at the Justice Department called the pardon attorney. [1:27] This is usually a career official, a nonpartisan job. [1:30] Of course, early in his second term, President Trump fired the pardon attorney when she would not do what he wanted. [1:35] And he replaced her with right wing activist and election denier Ed Martin. [1:40] CNN reports that in another break with protocol, the pardon vetting process in the Trump White House is managed by a small team of the president's closest advisers, [1:47] including his chief of staff, who handpicks her selections before presenting them to the president for his approval. [1:55] Say it with me now. We can't say it too many times. This is not how this is supposed to work. [2:01] Joining me now is Liz Hoyer. She was the pardon attorney at the Justice Department until President Trump fired her last year. [2:08] Thank you for being here. It's great to see you. [2:10] Let me start by asking you just about what we know. We know right now that he has pardoned six people reportedly for violations of the Clean Air Act. [2:20] What do you make of that? [2:22] Well, those particular pardons are probably based on policy disagreement with prosecution of environmental crimes. [2:30] But the bigger picture with Donald Trump is the way in which he uses pardons consistently to reward people who exhibit bad behavior in furtherance of his agenda. [2:41] And we don't know enough about these individuals to know whether they are examples of that. [2:45] But he certainly has consistently used the pardon power to reward people who commit crimes that further his political agenda. [2:53] Crimes in the name of Donald Trump that started on day one of his administration when he pardoned the 1600 Capitol rioters. [3:01] And it continued in a pretty much unbroken streak throughout the first several months of his presidency. [3:05] What has gone through your head as you have seen the reporting about the potential for 250 pardons to mark the 250th anniversary, including reportedly potentially P. Diddy? [3:18] Well, I mean, a pardon for P. Diddy would really just defy all norms for use of the pardon power. [3:24] People who commit offenses related to sexual exploitation are not considered for pardons during ordinary times. [3:31] And Trump reportedly is also considering pardoning Glenn Maxwell. [3:36] He hasn't ruled out pardoning Glenn Maxwell, the co-defendant of Jeffrey Epstein, who was convicted of sex trafficking of minor children. [3:43] So the fact that that he won't rule these out shows that there are really no off limits types of crimes for Donald Trump in the use of the pardon power. [3:52] But what really at sort of a deep level bothers me about this is that there are a lot of really deserving people. [3:59] There are people who've gone through the process that you're supposed to go through. [4:03] They've submitted all of their materials. [4:05] They've undergone background investigations conducted by the FBI. [4:09] They've provided character references and they've really demonstrated that they've earned and deserved this type of relief. [4:15] And those applications are languishing at the Justice Department while people who have political connections are jumping the line and getting pardons that they don't frankly deserve. [4:23] It's such an important reminder. [4:25] There's a pardon process in place for a reason because there are many people out there who warrant them. [4:31] I was just saying this to you during the break. [4:32] I mean, you've played such an incredible role educating people about how this process is supposed to work, which sometimes is, I think, what we can do in this moment. [4:40] I just mentioned some reporting about their process they're going about at this point in time, which includes close advisors in the White House, including the chief of staff, making her own list to submit it. [4:52] Help people understand. [4:53] You've done this so many times, but every time there's a big story, I think people need to understand how this is actually supposed to work. [4:59] Yeah, the way it's supposed to work is people submit an application to the Justice Department. [5:03] The Office of the Pardon Attorney, which is historically a nonpartisan, nonpolitical office, vets the applications consistent with a longstanding set of criteria. [5:13] We did, when I was leading it, a rigorous investigation of the applicants to see if they truly had demonstrated that they were deserving based on the merit, based on things like rehabilitation and good conduct in the community over a lengthy period of time. [5:27] And then we would make recommendations that would go up to the president for the president's ultimate decision. [5:34] There was a rigorous vetting process and criteria that were consistently applied. [5:38] All of that has now gone out the window. [5:40] And Donald Trump has essentially turned this into something akin to the Hunger Games. [5:44] I mean, he's created a situation where people are ponying up huge amounts of money. [5:49] They're leveraging political connections. [5:51] They're hiring well-connected lobbyists. [5:52] People in Trump's inner circle are making exorbitant sums of money, promising the possibility of pardons. [5:59] And it is really just quite fundamentally corrupt, as well as dangerous. [6:03] There have been, to your point, a lot of reporting about the amount of money lobbyists are being paid to try to get people pardons. [6:11] While I have you here, you wrote this incredibly powerful piece for Substack. [6:15] It was part of a kind of an intro to a letter that you sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee about your concerns about Todd Blanche being nominated to be the attorney general. [6:24] And you include a reference to something that's very personal. [6:27] You talk about how Blanche subjected you and your family to an extended course of retaliatory conduct, including attempting to prevent you from informing Congress about his actions. [6:35] U.S. Marshal delivered an intimidating letter to your home. [6:38] What should people understand about the danger it would pose for Blanche to be confirmed as the attorney general? [6:45] Todd Blanche knows no limits to which he will go to carry out Donald Trump's agenda, his political agenda. [6:52] He has gutted the career workforce at the Department of Justice, which has limited the ability of that organization to do its core mission, [6:59] which is to protect public safety, to keep Americans safe and to uphold the rule of law in this country. [7:04] And instead, he has prioritized Donald Trump's political interests, financial interests and personal interests over and above the interests of the American people, [7:12] which makes him fundamentally unsuited for this role. [7:16] What he did in my case, firing me because I wouldn't sign off on a political favor for a friend of the president and then retaliating against me and my family. [7:23] Unfortunately, it's not unique. [7:25] There have been countless civil servants who've been treated this way. [7:29] There are thousands of Justice Department lawyers who have resigned or been forced out under Todd Blanche's leadership, [7:34] and he has really just done such a tremendous amount of damage to that organization as deputy attorney general [7:40] that it is unthinkable that he could be confirmed as attorney general. [7:44] Liz Sawyer, thank you for being here. [7:46] Thanks, Jen.