Trump strongly considering pulling out of NATO: The Telegraph

[0:00] And he's been building, he's been setting up straw men against NATO and knocking them down [0:05] now for about a decade. He will come up with another built-in excuse to get rid of the [0:11] alliance that Vladimir Putin fears the most, NATO. Yeah, and he's saying that, Joe, explicitly this [0:17] morning. The Telegraph just posted a new interview this morning in which President Trump says [0:21] he is strongly considering pulling the United States out of NATO after it failed to join his [0:28] war in Iran. He said, quote, I was never swayed by NATO. I always knew they were a paper tiger [0:34] and Putin knows that too, by the way. Well, no, back in 2024, President Biden signed a law [0:40] that prevents any U.S. president from unilaterally withdrawing the United States from NATO [0:44] without congressional approval. Perhaps, Jonathan Lemire, seeing this very moment coming from [0:50] President Trump. Yeah, President Trump, of course, nearly, he wanted to pull the U.S. out of NATO in [0:54] his first term. I was there at the Brussels headquarters of NATO in 2018. A few [0:58] days before his Helsinki summit with Putin. And Trump was so angry that European members [1:02] weren't paying their dues that he tried to pull out. He was talked out of it then, but has for [1:07] years railed against NATO. And of course, now is upset. He feels they didn't come to their aid at [1:12] the Strait of Hormuz. First of all, you're right. There's a law against. He can't just withdraw. [1:16] This is also NATO's a treaty, so therefore the act of Congress. However, there are things he could [1:21] do here to really dramatically weaken NATO. And my colleague and I at The Atlantic wrote about this [1:26] last week. One thing that Europeans [1:28] leaders are fearful of is that he could withdraw U.S. troops from the region. So, yes, technically [1:32] we'd be in NATO. But if we don't have service members at our bases, well, that sort of defeats [1:37] the purpose. And Russia could look at the continent as a much more inviting target. He [1:42] also could slash funding to NATO. So even if he can't truly withdraw, there are things he could [1:47] do to really weaken the alliance. And that would be literally Vladimir Putin's life work would be [1:53] to weaken that alliance, which was built as a bulwark against Russian aggression. Yeah. And [1:57] David Ignatius, this in the moment is about the war in Iran. The president starts a war and then [2:02] he's mad at our allies for not joining the war. That's not how NATO works. That's a different [2:06] conversation, perhaps. But you have Spain and Italy saying you can't use our airspace to fly [2:11] over for your war. That has angered the president as well. But this is a deep seated dislike. Let's [2:20] just put it that president has for some reason for NATO. And as John said, this truly is this [2:28] president who's willing to turn its back on NATO and he can continue to roll into Ukraine and [2:32] perhaps further. So, Willie, if the president follows through on this talk and really pulls [2:39] the U.S. back from NATO, that will be the event that will define this this moment. The NATO [2:46] alliance is absolutely central to U.S. security and how the world works. Europeans that I talk [2:54] to already feel that they're on their own. They see a very threatening Russia. [2:59] At their borders, they see the United States increasingly uninterested in working with them. [3:05] And they're thinking they're going to have to beef up their militaries. They're going to have [3:10] to change the way they look at conflict. Many European leaders say to me, we we think we're [3:16] already at war with Russia and we know we have to rely on ourselves. So it's going to be a different [3:22] future. We say that often with with Donald Trump. But nothing could be more different than this, [3:28] than a. [3:29] The effective unwinding of NATO, something that I think of Nika's dad, the decades that he fought [3:38] to build that up, the way he saw it as crucial to defeating the Soviet Union and and here, [3:43] you know, almost on a whim, it's sometimes seems Donald Trump is saying that's that's it. I've had [3:50] it. It's hard to imagine. I mean, it's hard to imagine. Oh, you look through the years from 1947 [4:00] to now. [4:01] OK, so you look through the years from the beginning. What do you see in the future? [4:02] All of the all of the people across the West in the United States and Great Britain, all of our allies [4:09] across NATO, how much they worked to push back Russian aggression, to push back the Soviet Union, [4:15] to liberate 100 million people in Eastern Europe. They did that. And now, David, you look and see [4:24] the president is clearly lining up on the side of Vladimir Putin and we could talk about NATO. What? [4:29] What is bad for NATO? Is. Vladimir is good for Vladimir Putin. [4:29] Vladimir Putin is good for Vladimir Putin. [4:29] Vladimir Putin is good for Vladimir Putin. [4:30] I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA. [4:33] I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA. [4:35] DONALD TRUMP KNOWS THAT. [4:37] MARCO RUBIO KNOWS THAT. [4:39] ALSO YESTERDAY WE HAD MICHAEL [4:41] WEISS ON I BELIEVE AFTER YOU [4:42] GOT OFF THE SHOW AND MICHAEL [4:45] WEISS HAD THE REPORTING AND [4:48] RECORDED CONVERSATIONS OF [4:50] HUNGARY AND RUSSIA COLLUDING [4:51] WITH EACH OTHER TRYING TO DO [4:55] ANYTHING DESPERATELY TO HELP [4:58] ORBAN SURVIVE. [4:59] I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA. [5:02] I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA. [5:04] I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA ALSO [5:06] THAT RUSSIA WAS TALKING ABOUT [5:08] THE POSSIBILITY OF FAKING AN [5:10] ASSASSINATION BEFORE THE [5:11] PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TO HELP [5:13] ORBAN. [5:14] AND SO YOU HAVE ALL OF THIS [5:16] COLLUSION. [5:17] I'D LOVE FOR PEOPLE TO CALL [5:20] THIS A RUSSIA HOAX AS WELL. [5:22] YEAH, IT'S NO HOAX. [5:24] THIS IS HAPPENING. [5:25] AND SO YOU HAVE THIS VERY [5:28] BIZARRE THING THAT WOULD HAVE [5:29] BEEN HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY [5:31] HONORABLY FOR DECADES TO SEE [5:34] VLADIMIR PUTIN, SERGY LAVROV, [5:36] MARCO RUBIO, AND DONALD TRUMP [5:39] ALL DESPERATELY WORKING TO TRY TO [5:41] HOLD UP A MAN'S POLITICAL CAREER [5:44] WHO WORKS DAY AND NIGHT TO [5:46] UNDERMINE WESTERN DEMOCRACY AND [5:48] TO HELP VLADIMIR PUTIN. [5:50] AND THAT OF COURSE IS ORBAN WHO [5:52] HAS AN ELECTION COMING UP. [5:54] AND RIGHT NOW BOTH DONALD TRUMP [5:56] AND VLADIMIR PUTIN ARE FREAKING [5:58] OUT THAT ORBAN, THIS ILL-LAWED [6:00] ORBAN, IS GOING TO HAVE TO WORK [6:02] HARDER AND HARDER AND HARDER AND [6:05] HARDER AND HARDER AND HARDER AND [6:07] THE LIBERAL THUG MIGHT ACTUALLY [6:08] LOSE. [6:09] SO, JOE, I THINK ONE OF THE [6:11] THINGS THAT LIES AHEAD, TAKING [6:13] TRUMP AT HIS WORD, IS THAT EUROPE [6:15] IS GOING TO HAVE TO WORK MORE [6:18] CLOSELY WITH KEY ASIAN COUNTRIES [6:20] INCLUDING CHINA TO REOPEN THE [6:22] STRAIGHT AND ESTABLISH A NEW [6:24] ORDER THERE WORKING WITH IRAN, [6:26] THE U.S. HAVING PULLED BACK. [6:28] THAT HAS SOME PLUSES. [6:30] I'M GLAD TO SEE THE EUROPEANS [6:32] REOPEN THE STRAIGHT. [6:33] PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN RIGHT [6:34] ABOUT THAT. [6:35] BUT IF THEY DO IT ON THEIR OWN [6:37] WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES AS THE [6:39] LEADER OF THAT COALITION, IT'S A [6:41] VERY DIFFERENT WORLD. [6:42] IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE AN [6:44] ARRANGEMENT FOR THE SECURITY OF [6:47] OIL TRANSIT OUT OF THE STRAIGHT [6:49] OF HORMOOZ THAT BASICALLY DOESN'T [6:51] INVOLVE THE U.S. [6:52] THAT'S BEEN AT THE CENTER OF OUR [6:53] FOREIGN POLICY SINCE BEFORE I WAS [6:55] BORN. [6:56] AND IF IT'S REALLY GOING OUT THE [6:57] WINDOW, THAT'S A DIFFERENT WORLD. [6:59] HELLO, REPUBLICANS. [7:03] STILL AHEAD ON MORNING, JOE. [7:05] WE'LL DIG INTO THE SERIES OF [7:07] WAKE UP, REPUBLICANS. [7:09] WE UNDERSTAND YOU FEEL A NEED TO [7:11] SUCK UP TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE [7:13] UNITED STATES. [7:14] WE UNDERSTAND THAT. [7:15] BUT WHY DON'T YOU JUST MAYBE TAKE [7:17] A BREAK FROM SHOOTING CLAYS IN [7:20] EDGEFIELD COUNTY AND ACTUALLY BE [7:22] A PATRIOT AND PUSH BACK ON THE [7:24] PRESIDENT SUPPORTING AN ILLIBERAL [7:26] THUG WHO'S HELPING VLADIMIR [7:27] PUTIN. [7:28] PUSH BACK ON THIS TALK ABOUT [7:30] NATO. [7:31] PUSH BACK ON A PRESIDENT WHO [7:33] IS TRYING TO UNDERMINE. [7:35] AND HE'S DOING IT OPENLY. [7:37] HE'S TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE [7:39] ALLIANCE THAT TOOK DOWN THE [7:42] SOVIET UNION. [7:43] VLADIMIR PUTIN HATES THAT. [7:45] HE SAID THAT WAS ONE OF THE [7:47] GREATEST TRAGEDIES OF THE 20th [7:49] CENTURY. [7:50] OTHERS WOULD SAY TAKING DOWN A [7:52] REGIME THAT IMPRISONED AN ENTIRE [7:54] CONTINENT ACTUALLY WAS A GOOD [7:57] THING. [7:58] THEY WOULD ALSO SAY HAVING NATO [8:00] THERE SO VLADIMIR PUTIN DOESN'T [8:02] CONTINUE HIS WAR IN UKRAINE AND [8:04] THEN DO IT AGAIN. [8:05] THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. [8:07] I THINK IT'S ANOTHER. [8:08] YOU THINK IT'S ANOTHER THING [8:12] THAT YOU COULD GO INTO ISTONIA, [8:14] LATVIA, LITHUANIA, POLAND? [8:15] YOU CAN JUST KEEP TICKING THEM [8:17] OFF. [8:18] YOU CAN'T TURN AWAY FROM [8:20] THIS. [8:21] YEAH. [8:22] REPUBLICANS, WAKE UP. [8:23] SPEAK UP. [8:24] NOW. [8:25] WE'RE GOING TO.