Trump border czar says "I think body cameras are the way to go" after deadly ICE shootings

[0:00] And we're back with President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan. [0:03] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [0:05] Thanks for having me. [0:06] Mr. Homan, we saw that two immigrants were shot in the span of a week. [0:11] There was that one in Maine that was fatal just days after, another one in Houston. [0:16] We also saw that man fleeing agents in Florida who then was struck and killed by a tractor trailer. [0:22] I know you've been trying to keep the department out of the headlines ever since that streak in Minnesota that was deadly. [0:30] How do you respond to those who say what's happening now looks like very little has changed? [0:36] Well, you know, first of all, we'll wait and see what the investigations, how they play out, right? [0:42] Because, you know, I don't want to get ahead in investigations on who's at fault, what exactly happened. [0:49] Because we all know when these investigations happen, there's going to be cell phone video. [0:53] There may be city cameras. [0:55] And, of course, then you've got witness statements and affidavits from the officer and witnesses. [1:00] So we've got to let the investigations play out. [1:02] So I don't want to really comment on investigations themselves. [1:04] But, you know, I think, you know, Mark Wayne Mullen, you know, took some action in concern of safety of the agents and how we do operations. [1:14] And that's why he did that, you know, that pause on enforcement on vehicle stops. [1:21] But, you know, my concern is I've done this since 1984. [1:25] My concern is I think a lot of the rhetoric that you see every day, especially in sanctuary cities and at these protests that resist members of Congress saying ICE isn't a real law enforcement agency. [1:37] I think that I actually think that emboldens some people to say, I'm not going to comply with ICE. [1:43] And I think no matter what people think of ICE, no matter what you think of immigration law, you should always comply with law enforcement. [1:51] Yes. [1:51] But in the shootings in both Houston and Maine, the people who were killed were not the intended targets. [1:56] Have you caught the people you're actually looking for? [1:59] One of them, I believe we did. [2:01] But, you know, that happens in law enforcement all the time. [2:03] I mean, we're working, you know, we get leads on individuals and you say, okay, well, this subject lives at this house, he drives his car. [2:10] And when that subject leaves that house, you know, at 6 o'clock in the morning and someone gets in that car from that house, you know, they assume, okay, this is a guy and they'll do a vehicle stop. [2:20] And depending on when they make that stop and that person complies, either they're going to be arrested or released. [2:26] That's the way it's supposed to be. [2:27] So, you know, law enforcement deals with misidentity every day across the country, not just ICE, every law enforcement agency. [2:34] I was a cop. [2:35] I know that happens. [2:36] Yeah. [2:36] But these were fatal shootings, of course, in Houston and in Maine. [2:40] And in Houston, it was an unmarked car. [2:43] So when you're saying don't resist, these individuals who were chasing the man who died, they didn't have markings on that vehicle that would allow for him to know that they were ICE. [2:58] It just looked like a car coming after them in the videos. [3:02] No, they have emergency lights. [3:04] Officers have insignia. [3:06] So when they get out of that car and post the car, you can clearly see the law enforcement officers. [3:10] Well, in the video that has been public, it's not a marked car. [3:13] These people, I'm not saying it's a marked car, but they have emergency lights and sirens. [3:19] So when they post somewhere, they want to activate the emergency lights. [3:22] A lot of police departments, I'm in New York City right now, a lot of NYPD officers are driving unmarked vehicles, and that helps them find people that don't want to be found, right? [3:32] So, you know, but bottom line is, we'll see when the investigation plays out, but they'd be alive today if they simply complied with a vehicle stop by federal law enforcement officers. [3:43] Just comply. [3:44] You can, if you don't think you've been treated right and they had no reason to stop you, then there's avenues to take them to court, to sue. [3:51] Well, the family of the man in Houston said that he thought he was being robbed because it was an unmarked vehicle. [3:57] Not that it was law enforcement at all. [4:00] They had emergency lights. [4:03] They activate emergency lights, blue light. [4:05] You know, in my vehicle, I drive where I'm with my security detail. [4:09] You've seen that on video because we haven't. [4:12] Seen what on video, ma'am? [4:13] That there were lights because in the videos that we've seen, there aren't. [4:17] And because there weren't body cameras, it is hard to substantiate some of what you were saying. [4:24] Okay. [4:25] Well, I have not seen the videos, but I'm saying our vehicles are equipped with emergency lights. [4:29] Now, if they didn't activate the lights, again, I haven't seen that video. [4:33] If they didn't activate the lights, then there's an issue there, right? [4:36] But I'm saying they're equipped with lights. [4:38] So let me just caveat that. [4:40] They should have been equipped with lights and sirens, but I do not know specifically if they activated those lights. [4:46] Okay. [4:46] As far as the cameras, Margaret, you know, everybody in ICE would have a camera now if the government wasn't shut down by Democratic members of Congress. [4:54] There was money in that bill that they held up. [4:57] Yeah. [4:57] I think it was $120 million to equip all ICE officers with cameras, but because the government shut down, we're behind on that. [5:03] But they got $20 million in April. [5:04] But the cameras had been purchased. [5:04] Mm-hmm. [5:06] That wasn't enough. [5:07] The $20 million might have bought some cameras, but it doesn't buy the storage. [5:12] It doesn't buy the resources we need for the thousands of FOIA requests we're going to get there. [5:17] There has to be storage capability to hold these videos for a long time. [5:21] So it didn't fund everything. [5:22] But now we have the funding after reconciliation. [5:25] The cameras have been purchased. [5:26] Right now they're training the trainer and deploying the cameras nationwide. [5:30] Do you think it was a mistake for the Trump administration to have proposed the body cam expansion at the beginning of the term? [5:36] Because I know you have advocated for body cameras. [5:39] And now you're playing catch-up, right? [5:40] I think body cameras are the way to go. [5:44] I think body cameras let the American people know what that officer sees when he takes that action. [5:50] When will everyone get one? [5:50] You can have a cell phone camera from a witness on the side. [5:53] You can have city cameras or whatever. [5:55] But I want the American people to see what that officer sees when he makes the decision and takes an action. [6:02] Yeah. [6:02] I think the American people need to see what that officer sees and hears. [6:05] I think it's important. [6:06] And if you look at the data, body cameras actually exonerate agents more than they, you know, provide evidence of wrongdoing. [6:13] Well, yeah, and it would certainly help with reporting and public knowledge. [6:17] Let me ask you about something else. [6:19] The DHS secretary has said they went through public records and identified 250,000 non-citizens in four states, California, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Nevada. [6:29] I know those states don't share their voter rolls, so it looks like they're just pulling this from public information. [6:35] For those states, are you planning operations before November? [6:40] And you do acknowledge that it would be illegal to have federal agents at election locations? [6:48] You know, that's a question of DHS. [6:50] I'm not in a loop on that. [6:51] I'm not familiar with the information that DHS just released. [6:57] I'm not in a loop on that. [6:58] I'm at the White House of Borders there, so that would be a question for Mark Wayne Mullen. [7:01] I'm not in a loop on that. [7:03] Okay. [7:03] All right. [7:04] Mr. Homan, thank you for your time this morning. [7:07] We'll leave it there.