The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell - June 16 — Audio Only

[0:01] The last we're with Lawrence O'Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence. Hey, Jen. We have Michael Rothfeld joining us tonight. He's one of the New York Times reporters who have produced what is almost a book length report on Jeffrey Epstein in jail awaiting trial leading up to his suicide, including notes written by Jeffrey Epstein that the New York Times exclusively has obtained, including the suicide note, what was considered the [0:31] possible suicide note that the Times was able to get through court proceedings. He's going to join us tonight and take us through some of their findings. It is a massive story, as you know, that they published today. And we'll be doing a tip of the iceberg treatment of it. But it is an amazing story. We're going to get to that tonight. Fascinating. I read the whole thing this morning. It took a minute or several minutes. And they also talked to cellmates. I mean, it's so [1:01] It's such a detailed accounting more than we've seen to date. So I'll be so interested to see what he has to say. Yeah, it is really an astonishing piece. I hope people get to it who haven't read it yet. And we'll be covering it later in the hour. Great. I'll look forward to watching. Thanks, Jen. Thanks, Lawrence. Well, the reviews are in for the deal Donald Trump claims that he has with Iran. The Wall Street Journal, the conservative Wall Street Journal, says Trump stages an Iran retreat. [1:30] That's Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal headline for its editorial, which says there's no denying that Mr. Trump is retreating from his main goals as political pressure has built at home and finishing the job requires greater military risk. [1:49] And the right wing publication, the national review delivered its review under the headline, the Trump administration thinks we're imbeciles. That is exactly right. No one insults the intelligence of Trump supporters more than Donald Trump. [2:08] And here is the way Donald Trump treated the supporters who he thinks of as imbeciles today when he described what is in the so-called memo of understanding that he claims the United States and Iran have agreed to. [2:27] There's so much interest in the text of the document. Why not? Why not release the title? [2:33] Oh, I will. Why not release it before? [2:35] Well, because I'd like to get a formal setting first before we do that. But I have no problem with that. It's a great document. Here's what it says. Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. [2:45] Only an imbecile could think that that would be some kind of breakthrough in 2026 to have a written agreement that says Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. [2:58] 11 years ago, Iran put this in writing in the publicly released 18 page written agreement negotiated by Secretary of State John Kerry and agreed to by the United States and five other countries. [3:14] He's quote, Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop, or acquire any nuclear weapons. [3:26] So Donald Trump's big claim today after going to war with Iran is that his war has convinced Iran to put in writing exactly what Iran put in writing 11 years ago without a war. [3:38] Yes, Donald Trump thinks you're imbeciles if you believe that. [3:43] Donald Trump is approaching his so-called deal with Iran the only way he knows how, which is to lie about it nonstop. [3:52] That is what Donald Trump wants Congress to do. [3:55] MS now obtained a copy of talking points that the White House has sent to congressional Republicans. [4:01] And the first line is a lie. [4:03] The talking point that Donald Trump wants congressional Republicans to use is, quote, [4:09] Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. [4:11] President Trump drew that line and enforced it when no other president would. [4:17] So Donald Trump believes it is impossible to sell his so-called deal with Iran without lying about President Obama's comprehensive deal with Iran 11 years ago [4:30] that successfully prevented Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons. [4:34] First, you lie, that is the Trump rule of doing business for himself and for congressional Republicans. [4:40] First, you lie about the deal that President Obama negotiated through Secretary of State John Kerry. [4:47] So yes, the National Review is right. [4:49] Donald Trump thinks that Trump supporters at the National Review who supported his election are imbeciles. [4:55] And he always has treated you that way. [5:00] He has always lied about Iran. [5:02] And the editor-in-chief of the National Review still said, vote for him, America. [5:07] Vote for the pathological liar who treats his voters like imbeciles and always has. [5:14] They originally wrote that we will not develop a nuclear weapon. [5:18] I said, no, no, you're not going to develop and you're not going to buy either. [5:24] That was Donald Trump treating the National Review editors like imbeciles today. [5:29] President Obama already negotiated the you-can't-buy-one deal 11 years ago. [5:36] Iran, in writing, pledged to President Obama and other countries that Iran would never, quote, [5:43] these are the words, seek, develop, or acquire any nuclear weapons. [5:49] Acquire means buy. [5:51] Seek means buy. [5:52] So no, Donald, you didn't come up with some new brilliant idea if you managed to get Iran [5:57] to say exactly what they said 11 years ago in writing. [6:03] I watch these politicians, I watch a Senator read that nobody ever heard of the other day. [6:10] Well, this deal is the same as the deal Barack Obama. [6:13] No, this deal is a wall to a nuclear weapon. [6:18] His deal was a road to a nuclear weapon. [6:22] My deal, they can't have a nuclear weapon. [6:24] They get blown up. [6:25] If they have a nuclear weapon, they get blown up. [6:28] In his deal, they were allowed to have a nuclear weapon. [6:31] That's a lie that Donald Trump must keep telling in order to try to desperately justify his [6:38] war in Iran, which most Americans oppose, and his deal with Iran that is so embarrassing [6:45] he can't let the wording of it become public. [6:48] Donald Trump's desperation only got worse today as he continued to speak, and so he drove [6:53] himself to ever more demented levels of lying, claiming that President Obama was on Iran's [6:58] side, and that Israel literally would not exist today were it not for Donald Trump. [7:09] And Obama was on the side of Iran, not Israel, and he made the deal. [7:13] That deal was a disaster. [7:15] I terminated that deal, and if I didn't terminate, and it was very tough after the termination, [7:21] and if I didn't do that, Howard knows better than anybody. [7:24] If I didn't terminate that deal, I believe that they would have, Israel wouldn't be here right now. [7:29] Oh, where would Israel be? [7:36] They were two weeks away from having a nuclear weapon, and if they had a nuclear weapon, [7:41] they would have used it on Israel. [7:43] If it weren't for the United States of America, with me, because Obama was the opposite, [7:49] Israel would not exist right now. [7:51] Israel would have been blown off the face of the earth, 100%. [7:54] And every smart person in Israel knows that. [7:58] Every smart person in Israel knows that the National Review is right. [8:04] But Donald Trump thinks that they are imbeciles. [8:09] Every smart person in Israel knows that Israel already has nuclear weapons. [8:14] Every smart person in Israel knows that Israel knows exactly how to defend itself against any [8:21] form of attack. [8:24] And so every smart person in Israel knows that they do not have to thank Donald Trump for [8:29] their very existence on this earth tonight. [8:32] Every smart person in Israel knows that Iran was not two weeks away from having a nuclear weapon. [8:40] Donald Trump cannot talk about his negotiated outcome with Iran without insulting every smart [8:47] person in Israel and everyone else in the world, including those editors of the National Review, [8:53] who suddenly feel like imbeciles for the first time. [8:57] No American president has ever insulted the people of Israel the way Donald Trump did today, [9:03] claiming that they owe their very lives to him. [9:08] Donald Trump claimed that the people of Israel are completely dependent on him and him alone. [9:15] Donald Trump insists that if the Iranian dictatorial regime suddenly obtained a nuclear weapon, [9:20] they would immediately fire it at Israel. [9:23] If true, if Donald Trump really believes that, then he must, must achieve regime change in Iran. [9:33] How could Donald Trump possibly leave in place people who would immediately nuke Israel if they [9:39] could possibly get their hands on a nuclear weapon? [9:45] Now, you talk about regime change. [9:47] I never cared about regime change. [9:51] What? [9:52] So, again, I don't believe the regime change. [9:59] You know, I've watched regime changes for years. [10:02] They never work. [10:04] Donald Trump said that minutes before he said that the Iranian regime, he is deliberately [10:12] leaving in place, would immediately nuke Israel if they could. [10:18] Yes, Donald Trump proves in his rambling madness every day that he thinks Trump supporters, [10:24] people who believe him, are imbeciles. [10:28] Donald Trump seems to demonstrate every day that he believes that the people who believe [10:33] him and everything he says about Iran are imbeciles. [10:38] It took the Trump supporters at the National Review 10 years to figure out that Donald Trump [10:44] thinks that they are imbeciles. [10:46] Here is Donald Trump, the pathological liar, who today said, I never cared about regime change, [10:52] calling for regime change on the very night that he launched his war in Iran. [11:02] To the great, proud people of Iran, I say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand. [11:09] Stay sheltered. [11:10] Don't leave your home. [11:11] It's very dangerous outside. [11:13] Bombs will be dropping everywhere. [11:15] When we are finished, take over your government. [11:18] It will be yours to take. [11:20] This will be probably your only chance for generations. [11:27] It turns out the great, proud people of Iran, as Donald Trump calls them, are not Trump-believing [11:35] imbeciles. [11:37] They don't take life advice from Donald Trump. [11:41] The people of Iran know that Donald Trump lied to them and that the hour of their freedom [11:47] is not at hand because Donald Trump said today that the dictatorial regime controlling Iran, [11:56] oppressing the people of Iran, leaving everyone in that country living in fear of the regime, [12:04] quote, were nice to deal with. [12:06] We're dealing with people that I think are very rational people. [12:12] I mean, they were nice to deal with. [12:14] They were strong people, smart people. [12:18] Nice to deal with. [12:20] Tell that to the Iranian people who live under that dictatorship. [12:24] Nice to deal with. [12:26] Donald Trump has never met dictators he doesn't think are strong and smart and nice to deal [12:33] with. [12:34] And now the people of Iran have to listen to Donald Trump telling them how smart and strong [12:39] their oppressive regime is, the regime that crushes their hopes and dreams. [12:44] Donald Trump launched a war that has achieved nothing. [12:48] And Donald Trump will spend the rest of his life lying about that. [12:55] Leading off our discussion tonight is Pennsylvania Congressman Chris Deluzio. [12:59] He is a member of the House Armed Services Committee and a former surface warfare officer [13:04] in the United States Navy. [13:05] He was deployed overseas three times and previously patrolled the Strait of Hormuz. [13:09] Congressman Deluzio, what is your reaction to what we understand at this point to be [13:15] the outcome of Donald Trump's war? [13:19] Lawrence Hay, great to see you. [13:20] Let's start with what we understand. [13:22] And you got right into it. [13:23] We've not even seen the text of this agreement from the administration. [13:27] Look, I'm happy that the fighting is over for now. [13:31] We have no idea what, in fact, this peace deal, if we can call it that, will entail. [13:37] What will it mean for the enriched uranium that the Iranians have? [13:40] What will it mean for keeping the Strait of Hormuz open and thus oil flowing from this region? [13:46] What will it mean longer term after the 60-day period? [13:49] Because there is a lot to iron out. [13:51] It just comes back to this basic point that I've seen and you've talked about for a while. [13:56] Donald Trump had no clue what he was doing in starting this Iran war. [13:59] This looks to be a strategic blunder at the cost of more than a dozen American lives, [14:05] hundreds of Americans wounded, civilians killed, including schoolchildren, billions spent. [14:11] And for what? [14:12] I think the American people rightly understood this war, never made sense. [14:16] They did not support it. [14:17] And are now left asking, what was this all for? [14:20] He has completely formally, publicly today, given up any consideration [14:26] of trying to obtain any of the nuclear material that Iran might have had [14:33] before Donald Trump's attack, saying that he doesn't think that stuff is even valuable. [14:39] He launched a war over it and says he today says he doesn't even think it's usable or valuable. [14:44] Well, I remember the president and people all around him told us last year that they had obliterated [14:51] the Iranians' nuclear capacity and ability to ever produce nuclear material. [14:55] That was a lie. [14:56] They've known that was a lie. [14:58] And now we are maybe in a position, at best, at best, the same one we were in before Donald Trump [15:05] started this war, and certainly no better than we were in under the JCPOA, [15:10] the nuclear deal that President Obama had secured years ago that Donald Trump ripped up, [15:15] which, by the way, required enriched uranium to be shipped out of Iran. [15:19] So, again, I don't know what this president has accomplished with his Iran war other than to [15:23] cost American lives and dollars and cost lives in Iran. [15:28] It's really been disastrous. [15:30] What did Iran learn about its control over the state of Hormuz in this war? [15:37] I fear they've learned something that really upsets the balance of power [15:41] and could shock energy markets for a long time. [15:45] They were able to demonstrate, even with the U.S. Navy there, [15:49] that they could disrupt global oil markets. [15:51] They could disrupt the supply of oil. [15:54] They could disrupt shipping. [15:55] They could do it in the face of an American president who launched a war against them. [16:00] And they've really destabilized the world. [16:03] And they did that, by the way, in the face of Donald Trump having canceled lots of clean energy [16:08] projects that could have made us less exposed to oil shocks coming out of the Middle East. [16:13] It's really the most amateur stuff you could think of for an American president. [16:17] And I don't want to exaggerate too much, but it's that bad. [16:22] This comes at a time when we've just seen that the supply, the use of solar power has now exceeded the use of coal power. [16:34] Donald Trump, a big champion of coal power, he's done everything he can to block reliance on solar power [16:41] and alternative energy sources in this country while now waging a war in the oil zone of the world [16:49] where Donald Trump still thinks we should be dependent on that particular source. [16:56] I think Donald Trump's insistence that we continue to be dependent on oil [16:59] and underinvest in every other energy source is just reckless. [17:03] We've seen that now exposed to this war. [17:05] And look at what countries like China, which are our chief economic rival in the world, are doing. [17:10] They are completely invested in renewable sources of energy [17:14] to take themselves off of dependence of Middle Eastern oil. [17:17] And remember, Donald Trump had American sailors risking their lives to get the strait reopened. [17:23] That's oil that doesn't come to America. [17:25] That's oil that goes to countries like China, principally, in Asia. [17:28] This is not oil that we are importing into our country. [17:31] And so he was willing to have Americans risk their lives [17:33] so that Middle Eastern despots can export their oil to places like China. [17:38] It's really pretty crazy stuff, Lawrence. [17:41] Carson, Chris Deluzio, thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight. [17:45] Thank you. [17:45] Senator Sheldon Whitehouse will join us next. [17:54] Donald Trump never admits he's lying, but sometimes he does stop telling certain lies. [18:01] There's not one dime of government money going into the ballroom. [18:08] We didn't ask for any tax money. [18:09] We have no taxes. [18:10] This is taxpayer-free. [18:12] We have no taxpayer putting up 10 cents. [18:15] You have, right here, $300 to $400 million, depending on finishes. [18:20] If I use very expensive marble, if I use very expensive wall coatings, if I could bring it up to 400. [18:28] This is all my money and donors' money. [18:32] This is tax-free. [18:33] And after all of that, he then asked Congress for a billion dollars for his ballroom, [18:40] which he couldn't get from Congress. [18:42] And today, the Washington Post is reporting that Donald Trump knew when he was telling those lies [18:47] that his project would cost $600 million, [18:51] and he was already spending taxpayer money on it. [18:56] The Post reports, by the time Trump made his comments in March, [18:59] the federal government had already approved more than a dozen payments to the contractor overseeing the work. [19:05] Clark Construction totaling tens of millions of dollars in public funds, [19:09] according to a log of the contractor's invoices obtained by the Post, [19:13] Clark had informed the White House that the projected cost had increased to $600 million. [19:21] A project summary dated March 5th shows that nearly half of that, [19:25] $293 million, was expected to come from private sources. [19:30] The estimate said an additional $155 million would come from the Secret Service, [19:35] $149 million from the White House Military Office, [19:38] and $3 million from the Executive Residence, all sources funded by taxpayers. [19:44] Joining us now is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. [19:48] He's a member of the Senate Finance Committee, the Senate Judiciary Committee, [19:51] and he is the top Democrat on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. [19:56] Senator, I just wanted to pick up with you before we get to the ballroom [20:00] on something we were just mentioning in the previous segment about energy sources. [20:05] And Donald Trump fighting a war, believing that it was about freeing up, [20:09] to some degree, energy sources in the Middle East. [20:12] You posted today the news that solar has finally beat coal in the American energy grid. [20:22] This is a hugely important crossroads that Donald Trump has been trying to prevent from happening. [20:29] Yes. The scheme that Donald Trump is running is to blockade clean energy, [20:40] whether it's wind or solar or battery, from getting onto the grid. [20:45] Because when it comes onto the grid, it gets deployed by the grid operators first [20:52] for the obvious reason that it is low cost. [20:56] So if you block the low cost clean energy, as Trump is doing, [21:02] you force the grid for any given level of demand to go further up what they call the generation stack [21:09] and call on more and more and more fossil fuel units. [21:14] And that drives up the price for everybody, because in most grids, [21:19] the highest cost unit running at any minute sets the price for all electrons on the grid. [21:25] So it takes billions out of ratepayers' pockets, [21:29] and all of those billions go straight to the fossil fuel industry to Trump's big corrupt donors. [21:35] It is a huge machine for extracting money from Americans to have us pay off his big donors. [21:42] And this is just part of that crooked scheme. [21:45] And some of those big donors then contributed some of that private money to the White House ballroom. [21:52] How surprised were you to discover today, the Washington Post reporting, [21:56] that Donald Trump knew taxpayer money was going to the ballroom while he was saying it wasn't? [22:04] Yeah, I mean, we absolutely knew that taxpayer money was going to end up pursued for his gilded ballroom. [22:12] But to figure out, as the reporters did, that he actually knew this at the time that he was saying no taxpayer dollars. [22:20] So this lines up with, I negotiated a great deal with Iran. [22:25] I didn't do the birthday card to Jeffrey Epstein, [22:28] and no taxpayer dollars to the ballroom as three pretty classic lies in just the last couple of weeks. [22:37] And then, of course, he ends up going to Congress and saying, [22:39] oh, yeah, I'm going to need a billion for the ballroom. [22:42] Yes, and thankfully, my team and Senator Heinrich's team from the Energy Committee were able to blockade that with the parliamentarian. [22:52] Thank you, by the way, for mentioning the wonderful work of Bill Douster, [22:56] who's a Senate classic who does parliamentary work for us [23:00] and presented the Environment Public Works case to the parliamentarian very successfully. [23:04] That was wonderful to see. [23:07] And so, you know, he doesn't get his billion, and now he has to just try to figure out how to wangle it out of other places in the budget. [23:15] But he's really not going to be able to do that because we also led the amicus brief that points out very, very clearly [23:22] that the president has no authority to spend a nickel on the White House. [23:27] Congress has all of that authority. [23:29] It's a little bit like we're the landlord and he's the tenant, [23:32] and the tenant doesn't get to make changes in the landlord's house [23:36] without the landlord's permission and consent and appropriations and authorization. [23:41] So he's kind of in a box flailing around here with his ballroom. [23:46] Speaking of finding money and sneaking it around the budget, [23:50] Kashyap Patel, who, as far as we could tell, [23:54] lied his way through his Senate confirmation hearing and others, [23:57] has been discovered to apparently be operating some kind of personal slush fund [24:03] using Justice Department money to overpay FBI agents who are especially favored by him. [24:12] It would come as no surprise he's been lying to the Senate Judiciary Committee since day one, [24:18] and his lies to the Senate Judiciary Committee are particularly annoying and ironic [24:24] at a time when his bosses at the Department of Justice [24:29] were prosecuting Jim Comey for lying to Congress. [24:35] Now, Jim Comey didn't appear to actually have lied to Congress, [24:38] but they prosecuted him anyway to appeal to the audience of one, Donald Trump, [24:44] but to be prosecuting a former FBI director over bogus claims of lying to Congress and then having [24:54] your FBI director come in and plainly lie to Congress about, by the way, his grand jury testimony [25:02] seeking Fifth Amendment protection, which you have to have a good faith belief in your own criminal [25:07] liability to assert. [25:09] I mean, the whole thing is just too good, Lawrence. This would be comedy if it weren't tragedy. [25:16] Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us tonight. [25:19] Thank you. [25:22] And when we come back, we'll have the latest on tonight's election results, plus Sherrod Brown [25:27] will join us. There's good news in the Ohio Senate race. That's coming up. We'll be right back. [25:32] Tonight, Republican voters in Georgia gave the Republican nomination for Senate [25:41] to Congressman Mike Collins, who will run against Democratic Senator John Ossoff in November. [25:49] Ali Velshi is joining us with more. Ali, what else do we need to know? [25:52] Well, it's probably a good night for John Ossoff. I think this would have been his choice to run [25:55] against a pretty Trumpy guy who was endorsed by Donald Trump. This works. You know, in Texas, [26:01] it worked when Donald Trump gave his endorsement. In Georgia, it's worked when Donald Trump gives [26:05] his endorsement. What happens in a primary is a little bit different than what happens in a general [26:09] election. So John Ossoff will be facing off against Mike Collins. Pretty decisive win there, [26:14] about 11 percent with 96 percent of the vote in. That's the Senate primary. Let's look at the [26:19] gubernatorial primary. This person is going to be running against Keisha Lance Bottoms, former mayor [26:25] of Atlanta. It is going to be Rick Jackson, who has spent 80 million of his own dollars to win this [26:32] vote. He was running against Bert Jones, who's a lieutenant governor, a lot of name recognition in the [26:36] state. A guy who was actually involved in the sort of the fake electoral voter thing. He was pardoned by [26:42] Donald Trump. He's an absolute election denier, but he also had the distinction of being endorsed by [26:49] Donald Trump and the governor of Georgia, the current governor of Georgia. So he was running on the [26:55] basis that he's got gubernatorial experience, where Rick Jackson has none. Again, this has narrowed over [27:00] the course of the evening, 96 percent of the vote in, and it's 52 to 47. But we're pretty comfortable [27:05] saying that Rick Jackson is going to advance, and he's going to run against Keisha Lance Bottoms. [27:09] Jen Psaki was talking to her a little earlier, and she sort of says, look, the distinctions, [27:14] Lawrence, are not as clear. This is an internecine Republican fight, but for when it comes to a [27:19] general election, they're both MAGA guys. They're both Trumpy guys. One happens to be a billionaire, [27:25] one's an election denier, and that's the kind of thing that you get in 2026. [27:28] Thanks, Ellie. My pleasure. Thank you. Well, Democrat Sherrod Brown in Ohio has been closing [27:37] the gap in the Senate race, such that the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia moved [27:43] its rating of the Ohio Senate campaign to a toss-up between Democratic Senate nominee Sherrod Brown [27:49] and Republican Senator John Husted, who said this about Donald Trump's war in Iran. [27:56] Do you think that this still, that this war is still going much better than you expected? [28:04] Well, the military aspect of it went very well. The peace aspect is not proven to be as efficient. [28:12] A recent Fox poll shows that 60 percent of voters oppose U.S. military action against Iran. [28:19] And here is what one Ohio voter who voted for Donald Trump three times told MS Now. [28:25] To be honest with you, I'm not a big supporter of him at this point, due to the economy and due to [28:33] gas prices, due to Epstein files and some other things. Five years ago, six years ago, I had all my [28:40] kids living at home, three children living at home, me and my wife. On a salary making half of what I [28:45] make now, I was able to put plenty of food on the table every week. Now, just to feed my wife and [28:53] I, I'm paying more than what I paid back then to put groceries on the table. [28:56] Joining us now is former Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio. He is running for United States [29:04] Senate again in Ohio. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. What has changed in Ohio since [29:11] your last Senate campaign? [29:14] People are unhappy. People knew the system has been rigged for a long time now. They know it's rigged [29:20] worse. More money and people are working harder. They're seeing corporate profits go up. I saw the [29:25] other day, the average CEO salary, average CEO compensation in this country is now 17 million. [29:30] People understand that. Farmers are hurt by the loss of soybean markets. Farmers are hurt by [29:37] so much more expensive to replace parts, not to mention fuel prices, diesel prices. People all over [29:45] the state are paying more. A woman in Delaware County told me she can't really afford now to take her kids [29:50] to school activities outside of the classroom that she used to do, that she really wants to do for [29:56] her kids. So I'm hearing those stories all the time. I don't know if these people voted for Trump like [30:01] that, gentlemen. I just know they tell these stories. They're hurting and they're, they're pretty angry [30:05] about everything. [30:06] So I'm looking at a Fox poll of Ohio, your Senate race that I just find a little bit, it's, it's amazing. [30:15] It has you at 53 and it has a Republican John Husted at 45. Uh, now I know you're going to tell us [30:23] to ignore the polls because you always want to run as if it's a tie or you're a couple of points behind [30:28] all the way. But should people, should Democrats generally around the country at least be encouraged [30:35] when they look at those numbers? [30:37] I think people, of course, Lawrence, but when people are out and about, I'm not a pundit. I said that on this [30:42] show before when people are out, when elected officials are out and about, uh, they should be [30:46] listening, not to polls, not to good news or bad news, not even to Lawrence O'Donnell. They should [30:52] be listening, uh, to constituents they meet like the woman in Delaware County. I talked to a self-employed [30:58] exterminator in Columbus who told me that, um, his premiums because of John Husted's repeated votes, [31:04] I think seven or eight times his premiums for his insurance, uh, more than doubled. He dropped the [31:10] insurance he had. I mean, I hear those stories. Veterans are showing up angry about, uh, about [31:16] this war and he said, keep saying the war is going well. He said it at least twice, even [31:20] though three Ohioans have lost their jobs, even though, uh, the, the cost of everything [31:26] has gone up and that's, that's not just fuel prices. It makes its way through everything. [31:32] Uh, and there's no reason they've not had this war explained to them. So all of those things [31:37] tell me that, um, the country, the country's going in the wrong direction. Uh, voters are [31:42] pretty pissed off. Uh, and, uh, Republicans need people like John Husted need to change [31:47] the direction he's taking this country. He needs to stand up for farmers. He don't, he doesn't, [31:52] he needs to vote against the war. He doesn't. That's why I ask people to come to SherrodBrown.com [31:57] because I may or may not be ahead. I don't believe any one poll, but ask people to come to that [32:02] website and contribute 15 or $20. Cause I know, uh, last time my race were more money [32:09] to spend against me than any cent race in history. Ohio's a tough state. There will be more money [32:13] spent against me, maybe more in Texas or North Carolina. I don't know, but it'll be over [32:18] a couple hundred million dollars. And that's why I asked for people's help. That's why I'm [32:22] out talking to farmers, talking to small businesses, talking to UAW members, talking to non-union workers [32:28] at, at McDonald's or at a health, a health hospital or whatever, um, because I want to know what [32:35] they're thinking. And, uh, good ideas come from there, not from Washington. Uh, Chuck Schumer, uh, [32:41] repeatedly, uh, used his position strategically in the Senate, uh, to make sure, uh, that every [32:47] senator voted on Donald Trump's war and voted on it more than once. Uh, and he, he was doing it [32:55] obviously because they did want to stop the war, but what you got out of it without being able to [33:00] stop Donald Trump's war is a record of votes cast by every Republican Senator running for reelection, [33:07] uh, in support of Donald Trump's war. Uh, and this is something that will, I, I'm sure you're going to [33:15] make sure people in Ohio are hearing about in November. Uh, of course. And John Husted is repeatedly, [33:22] I mean, John Husted is a deciding bow to the big, bad, beautiful bill, which will mean that, um, that [33:28] 495,000 Ohioans will lose their health insurance and veterans or veterans benefits and social security [33:35] benefits, all of the kinds of cuts there. Um, you know, whether, however that happens, people know [33:42] that's where he is. They know he's not a voice for them, uh, in Washington. Uh, I mean, that's, [33:48] that's what he's been for what 17, 18 months now never stood up for Ohioans. And that's why in the [33:54] end I'm going to win because voters are going to, they're going to compare what I'm doing and saying [33:59] how I'm listening to people and how he's, he's a, he was a special interest guy in Columbus state [34:04] government. Now he's a special interest guy in Washington and people are really tired of people [34:09] going to Washington and in trading stocks and becoming lobbyists and looking out for their special [34:14] interest friend. And John Husted's a poise, a poster boy for doing that. Sherrod Brown, ahead in the [34:21] polls in the Ohio Senate race. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. My pleasure. And coming up [34:28] tonight, an important and in-depth reporting in the New York Times, giving us amazing insight into the [34:36] details of Jeffrey Epstein's time in jail awaiting trial, right up to the point where he dies in his jail [34:45] cell. The New York Times has obtained what appears to be a suicide note. A reporter who's on that story [34:51] will join us next. Today, the New York Times has important new reporting on the final days of Jeffrey [35:09] Epstein's life and his 2019 death at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City, where he was [35:17] awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking charges. The Times reports, we went to court to win access to [35:23] a document that had been described as a suicide note written by Epstein in jail before an earlier [35:29] apparent attempt to take his own life, which was hidden from the public and investigators for years. [35:36] We obtained about a dozen pages of other notes handwritten by Epstein in jail that were also [35:42] previously unseen, including some in which he tried and failed to come up with significant information [35:48] he might have on Donald Trump to offer to prosecutors. Our reporting establishes that [35:54] Epstein showed a clear pattern of behavior in the weeks before his death, suggesting an intent to [36:01] kill himself. The apparent suicide note memorialized Epstein's despair and desire to say goodbye on his [36:08] own terms. Other writings from his final days presented a picture of a fraying mental state that sharply [36:16] contrasted with the upbeat picture he presented to jail psychologists, including another note [36:22] in which he hinted at ending his life. Joining us now is Michael Rothfeld, an investigative reporter [36:29] for the New York Times who co-wrote this Epstein report. Michael, thank you very much for joining us [36:34] tonight. This is such a massive undertaking. Actually, when you print it out, as I had to do [36:41] to underline and stuff, it's about 35 pages of dense type. I want to read a passage just from the last [36:50] page. We'll begin there, where it says, you consulted a bunch of experts and medical examiners on the [36:58] evidence that we know about the death. And it said that none was willing to entirely rule out [37:06] either homicide or suicide. Where does it leave us? I guess that's where your reporting leaves us [37:14] at the end. Neither one of those things is ruled out. Well, the body is just one piece of the puzzle. [37:22] So, and it was one of the foundations of some of the conspiracy theories because Epstein's brother, [37:28] Mark, had, it was officially ruled a suicide by the New York City medical examiner. But Epstein's brother [37:33] hired another pathologist to attend the autopsy who said, you know, the marks on his body look like [37:39] he was murdered or strangled. So, you know, those marks were a big question mark. So we did consult [37:47] other pathologists to look at them. And they basically said, you know, it could potentially be [37:54] suicide or homicide. It really depends on other factors that we would examine, like how is his body [38:02] positioned in the cell? How was he found? But we don't have the answers to those questions. So [38:08] it basically, because a guard moved him and there were no photographs of it, and then he was removed. [38:13] So that information was a blank. So that's just one piece of the puzzle we looked at. And it is, [38:18] it is sort of hard to make a decision just based on that thing alone. [38:23] And the evidence base in this case, this potential suicide case, is such a mess because of the way that [38:32] jail was run, as you report. Exactly. The cameras, there were 11 cameras in the special housing unit [38:41] of the Metropolitan Correctional Center. And about half of them were off in the entire jail, were not [38:48] recording on the night that he was found dead. They had live feeds, but only two cameras in the, [38:55] in the shoe where he was, were actually recording. And so there was a camera positioned in the hallway [39:01] outside his cell, but it was not recording. So there's no footage of that camera that would let, [39:07] you know, that if there was, we could have absolutely seen that, you know, if somebody [39:11] had gone into a cell or nobody did, that was one major, major failure at the jail. [39:17] So one of the moments in this story, Jeffrey Epstein is hoping that the judge will let him go home and, [39:27] and instead of have to have to await trial in, in jail, he'll be able to go home, some kind of ankle [39:33] bracelet, home custody, all sorts of promises to the judge, uh, that he would not flee. Uh, and he [39:39] didn't get that. He, the judge decided he's a flight risk. I'm going to keep him in jail. That seems to be, [39:44] uh, in your reporting, a, a real turning point psychologically for him. [39:49] It was, he saw that he was going to be in jail for a long time. And, um, it wasn't too long after [39:55] that, that he did what appears to be, uh, a suicide attempt on July 23rd of 2019, when he was, [40:02] uh, in a, in a cell with a, a triple, a quadruple murderer named Nicholas Tartaglione, who found him, [40:10] said he found him with a noose around his neck and Epstein denied it. But, uh, the suicide note that [40:17] you read from earlier, parent suicide note, which Tartaglione says he found in a graphic novel that he [40:23] was reading, tucked in there, and then gave to the judge in his case. And it had remained, uh, [40:28] secret until this year. It had, had been sealed in court. So, um, the denial of bail appears to have [40:35] triggered, um, really inclinations to, to kill himself. Yeah. So it, it, it, there's an alternative [40:44] scenario here where he, he gets home confinement awaiting trial. Um, but if he were to have been [40:50] sentenced to real prison time, then psychologically, we'd be back where we were, uh, when he's denied [40:58] that opportunity to, to leave jail and, and await trial at home. Uh, how, how, this reporting is so [41:06] exhaustive and so extensive, and it's one of those reports that not only goes beyond what we knew, [41:11] but also then reminds us of little things that we were reading, uh, as this thing was unfolding. Uh, [41:17] what, what were your biggest surprises as you were doing this work? Well, um, the release of the Epstein [41:25] files contained a tremendous amount of new information, um, that, uh, we were able to access, [41:31] such as, like, investigators' notes from inmates who spent time with him in jail. Um, the, actually, [41:38] the notes of some of the inmates themselves who were actually called companions to, to try to monitor [41:45] him, um, after his apparent suicide attempt, the investigators who interviewed his second and last [41:53] roommate, um, who told them, you know, that he said to Epstein, you can live in jail. And Epstein's [41:59] response was, you know, prison is no way to live. That was sort of a, and that was, that was like not [42:04] long before he was found dead. Um, we spoke to another inmate, um, who we were able to identify all [42:11] these people who had connections to him through the Epstein files and then try to interview them. So [42:16] we found an inmate who was, uh, either right next to him or very close, who said the night before [42:22] Epstein was found dead, he heard the tearing of fabric, like the tearing of sheets, you know, [42:27] theoretically to make a noose. And he said to Epstein, he thought maybe what was going on was he was [42:33] doing something to kill himself. And he said, Hey, do you have any stamps? And Epstein said, no, [42:37] uh, you know, I, I don't have any just to distract him. And, but that was like an indication [42:42] potentially that, uh, you know, that he may have been making himself a noose that night. So that was [42:48] new information that we, uh, had no, uh, awareness of before. Just extraordinary reporting. Thank you [42:56] very much for it. And thank you very much for joining us tonight. Michael Rothfeld, New York Times, [43:01] really appreciate it. Tonight's last word is next. That is tonight's last word.