The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell - Aug. 11 — Audio Only

[0:01] The last word with Lawrence O'Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence. [0:04] Thanks, Jen. We're going to continue the election coverage. We're going to begin [0:07] with Ali Velshi and then get to the rest of our stories tonight. So we're going to get [0:11] straight to it. Sounds great. I'll be watching. Thanks, Jen. Thanks, Jen. Well, as you should [0:17] know by now, six states held primaries today, South Carolina, Vermont, Alabama, Connecticut, [0:22] Wisconsin, and Minnesota, which means we begin tonight with Ali Velshi at the big board. Ali. [0:29] And Lawrence, let's take a look at Wisconsin to start with. 60% of the vote is in. David Crowley, [0:36] who I want to remind people was out of the race entirely for a few weeks, is now in the lead. [0:41] He's leading only by about 5,000 votes, 40.4% to 39.2% for Francesca Hong. And again, [0:47] we have a lot of votes to come in still, but we have votes from every populated part of the state. [0:52] So in Eau Claire, 71% is in. Francesca Hong is leading there by about 1,000 votes. In Wausau, [0:57] 81% in. Francesca Hong is leading by four votes. In Green Bay, 34%. So I'm going to wait on that just [1:04] to get more vote in there. In Madison, which is Dane County, 73% in. This is where Francesca Hong [1:08] is from. It's 42 to 37. This is 42 to 38. She, generally speaking, needs better performance in [1:15] the places where she's otherwise doing well. And in Milwaukee County, 88% of the vote is in here. [1:20] 45% is in for David Crowley. 43% for Francesca Hong. I will say, with these kind of numbers, [1:25] even though we've got populated centers, we still only have 61% of the voting in the entire [1:30] state. So we're going to be on this for a little while. I want to also take you to Connecticut, [1:34] where we've got a number of races on, but I want to show you one house rate in particular [1:38] in Connecticut One. Luke Bronin has been projected to be the winner by the Associated Press with 54% [1:44] of the vote, 47% in. He has defeated John Larson. Yet another Democratic incumbent has been defeated. [1:50] Now, I will say this. There is not some outside force here. This isn't the DSA. This is simply [1:56] a new contestant who has come in. He was the mayor of Hartford, and he has defeated long-term [2:00] Congressman John Larson, who had a particular specialty and interest in Social Security and [2:05] Social Security reform. So that is one of the stories tonight. An incumbent has suffered a lot. [2:10] But we're going to stay on that Michigan story, on the Wisconsin story. One final thing I just want [2:14] to show you is in the Senate race for, I'm sorry, in the Democratic Senate race in Michigan. I'm not [2:22] sorry, Michigan, Minnesota. Angie Craig right now is running second to Peggy Flanagan. Peggy Flanagan [2:27] is ahead by 8,000 votes. But again, very little of the vote is in, 15% too early to make any [2:32] determinations there, Lawrence. Ali, we will get back to you later in the hour. Thanks, Ali. [2:38] Thank you. Well, no President of the United States has been more influenced by movies than Donald [2:45] Trump. Other presidents have appreciated movies but never used them as their frame of reference [2:51] for the world or for their work as president. Other presidents have befriended some of our greatest [2:59] cinematic artists like Steven Spielberg and Spike Lee, but Donald Trump shows no capacity to admire [3:05] anyone other than himself. Donald Trump is the only president in history who likes to talk about the [3:13] way people look when he announces appointments to government positions in his cabinet or elsewhere [3:20] in the government. You are guaranteed to hear the phrase central casting from Donald Trump when [3:26] describing his very favorite choices for jobs. In the 1950s, when Donald Trump's juvenile brain was [3:34] being permanently captured by movie imagery, central casting was often publicly referred to as the [3:41] place to call to get an actor who really looked like a cowboy or looked like a cop or really looked [3:47] like he could get through medical school and be a doctor. But I haven't actually heard anyone use the [3:52] phrase central casting since I was a child. When we hear Donald Trump tell us that his choice for a [4:01] government job looks like he came straight from central casting, Donald Trump is indicating just how long [4:08] his intellectual development was arrested. To Donald Trump, heroism is something defined by movies, [4:18] not by real life. And so he thinks of heroism as nothing but movie tough guy heroism, a purely fake kind of [4:28] invented heroism. That is why Donald Trump posts fake images of himself like this. No president has ever done more [4:39] than Donald Trump to reveal himself to be a deeply cowardly man. And no president other than Donald Trump [4:45] would ever dream of trying to create a courageous image of himself by turning himself into a fake movie character and [4:54] publishing a deeply perverse photograph like that one that we just showed you. And so it is uniquely Donald Trump among [5:02] American presidents who asks, wants to be judged on his personal bravery and all around tough guy toughness. [5:14] And that is what makes Donald Trump's secret flight out of danger uniquely undermining to both his own [5:20] self-image and what he wants his most fanatic supporters to believe about him. Donald Trump has asked the [5:28] world to see him as a movie hero, the physically bravest president ever, when he is clearly the laziest [5:37] president ever, who obviously spends more time in golf carts than he does thinking about governing, [5:43] which obviously he never does. Donald Trump is the only president who has in effect asked to be compared [5:50] to movie heroes. And so Peter Baker of the New York Times wisely turned to Andrew Marlowe, [5:57] who wrote the screenplay for the 1997 giant box office hit Air Force One starring Harrison Ford [6:04] as the bravest president ever imagined by Hollywood, who has to save everyone on Air Force One, [6:10] including himself, after the plane has been hijacked. Spoiler alert, President Harrison Ford [6:19] did the impossible and of course, personally killed the hijackers. Up until last night, that's the way [6:26] Donald Trump wanted his most fanatical followers to see him as the Harrison Ford president who would [6:31] personally kill anyone threatening Air Force One. Screenwriter Andrew Marlowe sees a problem for [6:38] Donald Trump, the movie hero, in the way he chose to escape danger by boarding a secret flight out of [6:47] Turkey while leaving Air Force One to take off as a decoy plane full of government officials and reporters, [6:55] who would have been the targets of the threats against that plane from Iran that the secret [7:00] service responded to by secretly moving Donald Trump from Air Force One to another plane using a [7:10] catering cart truck to do that. Andrew Marlowe, the screenwriter who gave us Harrison Ford as the [7:18] bravest president ever, told the New York Times, now real life isn't a movie, but given the circumstances, [7:23] I'm not sure I could ever script a moment like that for heroic main character, Mr. Marlowe said. [7:32] If the threat were that great, it's hard to imagine an audience rooting for any character who would [7:39] trade his own safety by treating the remaining civilians on board as potential sacrificial lambs, [7:48] especially without their informed consent. And so Donald Trump sadly failed his own self-imposed test, [7:59] the Hollywood hero test, the standard he pretends to achieve in his fake images of himself as a brave, [8:05] gun-toting tough guy. Bill Clinton's press secretary, Joe Lockhart, explained to the New York Times the [8:13] difference from the time Bill Clinton switched planes during a dangerous trip in and out of Pakistan. [8:21] The Times reports when Mr. Clinton traveled to Pakistan, he too switched planes to avoid detection [8:28] by possible attackers. He had been urged not to go to parts of the country which were havens for [8:35] terrorist groups, but since he was already going to India, he felt compelled to stop in Islamabad for [8:41] a few hours. The original security plan called for fooling the accompanying journalists into thinking [8:49] that Mr. Clinton had boarded the same C-17 military jet that they were on while he would secretly get [8:56] onto a separate Air Force version of a Gulfstream known as a C-20. My vehement protest was, [9:05] you can't use the media as decoys, Joe Lockhart said. And they came back with a plan that satisfied me. [9:15] They had Mr. Clinton walk around the nose of the C-17 to the other side, where three smaller, [9:23] unmarked planes were waiting. The journalists were not able to see which of the three he boarded, [9:29] but they saw he had not gotten on the C-17. Unlike the Trump team in Ankara, the Clinton team informed at [9:39] least one of the pool journalists in advance, Susan Page of USA Today, who recounted the episode on [9:45] Tuesday. And the White House then publicly disclosed the details more broadly once Mr. Clinton was safely [9:54] out of harm's way. Mr. Trump's team, by contrast, never disclosed what happened in Ankara until the [10:03] Washington Post broke the story. As Donald Trump's presidency continues to collapse into chaos, every [10:11] imaginary asset that Donald Trump was supposed to be bringing to the presidency in the minds of Trump [10:16] voters is collapsing too. His tough guy image was already weakened by the people of Greenland standing [10:22] up to Donald Trump's madman threats on Greenland. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, who is normally [10:28] as mild-mannered as Canadian Prime Ministers usually are, has stood up boldly to the incoherent bullying [10:36] from Donald Trump and shown the world what real governing toughness looks like and sounds like, [10:40] including the fact that real toughness is not incompatible with consistent dignity and politeness. [10:50] Donald Trump's phony image as the great negotiator has collapsed completely, even with Trump supporters, [10:56] during Donald Trump's war with Iran, now in its 165th day. In a right-wing media interview today, [11:03] when asked if he was changing his strategy in Iran, Donald Trump began his answer by saying, [11:09] quote, I don't talk about strategy, end quote. And then, of course, you know what happened. [11:15] Of course he talked about strategy. We have very powerful, powerful strategy. We could just keep it [11:23] along and they're going to fail. We could just keep, you know, doing sort of just like nice and easy, [11:30] relaxed. Like I said, I'm sort of negotiating. Do what I'm doing now. Just bop along and look how [11:37] bad they're doing. So economically, they are a mess. They can't borrow money. We control their money, [11:46] what they had, which is a lot. They had a lot. And we have total control of it. I'm their banker. [11:53] I am their banker. I'm their banker. Imagine Joe Biden saying that. Imagine [12:03] Barack Obama saying that. Imagine any other president saying I'm their banker. I am their [12:10] banker says the most lost man ever to live in the White House. In that same interview, [12:17] the same president who last week insisted that the United States military was not running low [12:21] on munitions today said the American military is running low on munitions. And it's Joe Biden's fault. [12:30] It was because he gave $300 billion worth to Ukraine. He gave more. They never mentioned [12:40] that. They never liked to mention that. Last week, Donald Trump said the leakers who told [12:47] the news media about his fight with Pete Hegseth about the reduction in American weapons of war [12:53] should be sent to prison. He said the leakers of these treasonous statements are being hunted down. [12:59] Long-term jail sentences will be sought! And then today, Donald Trump confirms some of those so-called [13:07] treasonous statements about munitions being depleted. American munitions. Everything Donald Trump has [13:16] touched has turned to chaos. The reflecting pool in Washington, D.C. is now a poison puddle thanks to [13:21] Donald Trump. He literally demolished one-third of the White House. And now a federal court has said [13:28] that was a completely illegal act of the most extreme vandalism in the history of American [13:34] government. And that court has blocked Donald Trump from building his ballroom where the White House [13:41] East Wing used to be. Donald Trump has visited chaos on the world with his war in Iran pushing up the price [13:49] of oil worldwide, pushing up the price of gas and diesel fuel here in the United States, which along [13:53] with his illegal tariffs that now have to be refunded, have pushed up inflation in the United States. [13:58] Donald Trump, the magical inflation fighter who promised to end inflation on his first day in [14:06] the presidency, just end it, has increased inflation. Donald Trump, the great deal maker who promised to [14:12] negotiate an end to Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine on the first day of this presidency, has negotiated [14:20] nothing with Vladimir Putin, nothing. And so now Donald Trump engages in chaotic public negotiations [14:28] with Iran on social media in which he issues threats, which he then forgets. He forgets his own [14:33] threats along with public lies, like the Strait of Hormuz is open and the United States is in control of it. [14:39] And in the face of Donald Trump's chaos, in response to Donald Trump's chaos, Iran has never been more [14:47] clear and apparently more intractable in their negotiating positions with the chaotic Donald [14:54] Trump. The Iranian Supreme Leader has appointed a new secretary of the Supreme National Security [15:00] Council. The Wall Street Journal reports that the appointment of that new secretary of the Supreme [15:05] National Security Council, quote, signaled Khomeini's determination to hold fast in a showdown with [15:13] President Trump. Today, while Donald Trump was raving incoherently in right-wing media about his so-called [15:19] strategies in Iran, the secretary of the Supreme National Security Council of Iran issued this [15:26] written statement. Iran's message is clear. The Strait of Hormuz will not reopen until the U.S. ends the war and [15:34] blockade, releases Iran's frozen assets, and agrees to a region-wide ceasefire, including in Lebanon and [15:42] Gaza. Until all conditions are met, the Strait will remain closed. To which Donald Trump said nothing. [15:52] Donald Trump took the time today to comment on who should be running World Cup soccer, but [15:57] nothing about Iran's negotiating position. Nothing about how Donald Trump can stop the chaos unleashed by [16:03] his decision to go to war in Iran, a war that Donald Trump probably imagined would go as smoothly as it [16:11] would for a heroic, fictional president in a Hollywood movie. Leading off our discussion tonight is Ben [16:21] Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor, President Obama, and an MSNOW political and national [16:26] security analyst. Ben, I first of all want to get your reaction to the way the Trump team handled this [16:37] departure from Turkey. And the way it differs from the way it's been done in the past with President [16:43] Clinton and other situations. I think everyone agrees that whatever is the safest way to get a [16:49] president out of there is the way to do it. The question becomes, how long do you keep that a secret? [16:55] How do you treat other people involved? Should they be treated as decoys the way it happened here? You've [17:01] been on Air Force One probably more times than you can remember. What's your reaction to all of this? [17:07] You know, there are more differences than I could count. I'll just speak to a few quickly, Lawrence. [17:12] The first is just in terms of standard protocol. I had to help plan several trips into war zones for [17:18] President Obama, including to Afghanistan, where you'd fly in the cover of darkness in total secrecy from [17:24] Andrews Air Force Base near the White House to Afghanistan. And you wouldn't announce that he was there [17:29] until you landed. But, you know, we did the, you know, day before the trip, we would bring in the [17:34] White House Correspondents Association and we would tell them and we would say, you know, select your [17:38] pool. That's a group of reporters that travel with the president. They have to keep the secret too, [17:42] but it's part of the job of the White House to make sure that the press is there to, you know, [17:47] document what the president's doing. By the way, that plane also belongs to the American people, [17:52] right? This is not Donald Trump's private jet. This is something that the American taxpayers spend many [17:57] millions of dollars supporting in terms of overseas operations. So there's a way to do this [18:01] that takes into account secrecy and security without using decoys, without lying to people. [18:07] And that leads me to the other couple of things. Well, another difference is there wasn't a multi [18:11] hundred million dollar Qatari jet operating the Air Force One. That's a pretty big difference, [18:16] right? And part of the reason we got into this mess is because he took a gift from a foreign [18:21] government that he sounds like he kind of asked them for because he liked the kind of gold trim [18:25] and luxury inside the plane. Like no other president in American history would ever do something like [18:30] that. And Lawrence, it should matter, even though I were immune to it, that he just lied about it. [18:35] He said that the Qatari jet flew ahead because the troops wanted to see or he wanted to show the troops [18:40] in the United Kingdom. I mean, the fact that he did this not at all courageous thing of, you know, [18:46] going down a catering elevator and then using his own staff and the press as a decoy and then lied [18:52] about it all because he set this all off by having a Qatari jet in the first place as Air Force One. [18:59] You know, like a lot of these stories, it encapsulates the corruption and incompetence [19:03] and vanity of the Trump administration in one episode. See, we're on day 165 of Donald Trump's war. [19:12] Iran's negotiating position is more intractable, it sounds like today, than it has been in the past. [19:20] How do you assess the current situation? Well, I think that's right because the Iranians clearly [19:26] believe they have all the leverage because when I hear their statement, their terms, it's the [19:30] absolute maximalist Iranian demands. You know, we get to control this body of water, we get to profit [19:35] off of it, you have to pull back and we get sanctions relief for reopening the body of water that [19:41] was open before the war began. Nothing on nuclear questions whatsoever. That tells me that they think [19:47] that time is on their side. And look, Trump has no strategy. And the reason he has no strategy, [19:52] Lawrence, is because before you can have a strategy, you have to know what your objective is. [19:57] We don't know what the objective of this war is 165 days into it. At the beginning, it seemed to [20:01] be regime change. Then we were going to obliterate the nuclear program for the, I don't know how many [20:06] time in the Trump administration. Then we're going to destroy their military. Well, clearly their [20:11] military is not destroyed if they can shut down the Strait of Hormuz. And Trump's not living in [20:15] physical reality. He's living in a world of lies on right-wing media where the Strait's open and [20:19] Iran is beaten and they're begging us for a deal. They're not begging us for a deal. [20:23] They have shut down a major waterway upon which the global economy depends. And Donald Trump can [20:28] squeeze Iran all they want. They don't care if there are shortages. They haven't had access to [20:33] their money for going on almost two decades. This is nothing new about Iran not being able to borrow [20:38] money or having money frozen in US sanctions. That's not new leverage. The Iranians have the new [20:44] leverage in the Strait. And so we're in this mess just to reopen a body of water that was open before [20:48] he launched this disastrous war. And nothing he says can change that. Ben Rhodes, thank you very [20:54] much for starting off our coverage tonight. Thanks, Lawrence. Coming up today, the top Democrat on the [21:00] House Judiciary Committee, Jamie Raskin, who will become the powerful chairman of that committee if [21:05] Democrats win the House in November, announced he is investigating Donald Trump's, quote, [21:11] bogus prosecution, end quote, related to damage to the reflecting pool. Congressman Raskin will join us [21:19] with what he is trying to accomplish in that investigation next. The top Democrat on the House [21:41] Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jamie Raskin, is demanding answers from the Trump administration about [21:45] what he calls a bogus indictment of three-time Olympic athlete David Hearn, who was charged with [21:53] vandalism for harm done to the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool. The United States Attorney for [22:00] Washington, D.C., Janine Pirro, dropped the charges against David Hearn on July 31st, but Congressman [22:05] Raskin is investigating exactly at what point the Justice Department knew that it was prosecuting an [22:13] innocent man. Because eight days before David Hearn was arrested, Interior Department officials had [22:20] already written to the contractor complaining that the reflecting pool was peeling. And two days before [22:29] David Hearn was indicted, a Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool Damage Assessment documented [22:37] systemic failure and peeling of the liner around the area where David Hearn was accused of causing that [22:47] damage. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He's the top Democrat on the [22:52] House Judiciary Committee. Congressman Raskin, what do you think is there in the Justice Department [23:00] files as they develop this prosecution that will reveal what they knew and when they knew it? [23:09] Well, Lawrence, it's not just legal and political for me. It's personal because Davey Hearn is my [23:14] constituent. So I'm feeling very strongly what it means for them to be going after a 100 percent [23:20] innocent guy for totally trumped up, bogus, fraudulent political reasons. And we already have [23:28] lots of indications that they knew days and weeks before they brought the prosecution against Davey that [23:36] this was clearly the error of the pool guy that Donald Trump signed up down at Mar-a-Lago [23:43] to do the work for $15 million. And this was a botched installation, as U.S. Attorney Pirro herself [23:52] said in her representation before the court. But they knew for many days before that there were [23:59] systematic failures in the installation of this coat of blue paint to try to change the color. It had [24:06] nothing to do with Davey Hearn, who dipped his hands in the water like lots of other people did. [24:12] But to me, it represents a far more structural and systemic crisis at the Department of Justice. [24:20] They're going after people simply because they make political statements that the president disagrees [24:26] with. That's true of six of my colleagues who the president wanted to have prosecuted, Adam Schiff, [24:35] Mark Kelly, Maggie Goodlander, Jason Crowe, simply for saying that armed service members have not just a [24:40] right but a duty to refuse unlawful orders. Meantime, they've done everything in their power to block and [24:47] obstruct the release of the Epstein files pursuant to a congressional command in federal statute. [24:55] They've done nothing to investigate the murders of Alex Preddy and Renee Good in Minnesota. They've shut down [25:03] the anti-corruption apparatus of the Department of Justice in the Anti-Kleptocracy Task Force in the [25:10] Anti-Foreign Corrupt Practices Act section. They've shut down the Public Integrity Section. They're all about [25:18] defending the corruption of the president. And, of course, the hallmark of that now is the $1.8 billion [25:25] political slush fund, which Attorney General Blanche cooked up as a way to transfer money from us, [25:32] from the taxpayers, to Donald Trump, for him to dole out to Proud Boys Oath Keepers and other [25:38] violent insurrectionists who attacked our police officers. So what this straight of warm ooze case [25:45] is all about is the total contamination and corruption of the Department of Justice. [25:50] So you are months away, possibly five months away or so, from having subpoena power as the chairman [25:59] of the Judiciary Committee if the Democrats win the House in November. So Jeanine Pirro and everybody [26:07] at the Justice Department is on notice that if they aren't responsive to you now, this can all be [26:14] followed up with subpoenas in January. Absolutely. We're going to have the subpoena power and obviously [26:21] we're going to use it because it's within our jurisdiction and within our legislative command [26:27] to defend the justice system and to try to defend the integrity of law enforcement, prosecution, [26:34] and adjudication in America. And, you know, we're living in a time of outrageous, unparalleled [26:40] corruption. We're dealing with the most corrupt presidential administration in the United States [26:45] history by far. And so we've got to confront them at every turn, expose what's going on, [26:52] and then demand a restoration of the rule of law. Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you very much for [26:58] joining us tonight. You bet, Lawrence. Coming up, while Donald Trump tries to convince people who are [27:05] financially struggling, and I mean really struggling, that he has made everything cheaper for them, [27:11] New York Times columnist Nick Kristof has been talking to Americans who are really financially [27:17] suffering, including one woman who told him, quote, I hit rock bottom daily. Nick Kristof joins us next. [27:31] It is time for another check on election results tonight. And for that, we turn to Ali Velshi at the [27:36] big board. Ali? Lawrence, I think it's going to be a late night. 84% of the vote is, well, that's in [27:42] Milwaukee County. In the entire state, we've got, oh, let's go to the right state. In the entire state, [27:48] we've got 74% of the vote in. David Crowley is still in the lead, but look at this, it's half a percent, [27:52] about 3,000 votes. He's leading Francesca Hong. Look at the population centers. In almost all of [27:57] them, Francesca Hong is leading. A place like Madison, where she's from, 92% in. She's leading [28:02] 44% to 37%. Milwaukee is what we're looking at closely. 84% of the vote is in. He's leading [28:08] David Crowley by 1,000 votes. But here's the interesting thing. If you recall, Lawrence, [28:12] David Crowley was in the race, then he got out of the race for about two weeks. He supported Sarah [28:17] Rodriguez, then she got out of the race. And when she got out of the race, he put his, he got back [28:22] in. And in that two-week period, a number of people voted. Now, we don't know whether that's [28:26] thousands or tens of thousands, but that's interesting because that's probably, anecdotally, [28:30] we believe, some of the last vote that's going to come in in Milwaukee County. If it's possible that [28:34] people were voting for Francesca Hong because he was out of the race, we don't know that yet. So this [28:38] is one of those instances where 84% of the vote is in statewide, and yet the Associated Press is not [28:44] prepared to yet make a call. We still have to see what's going on. It's also very, very, very close. [28:48] I mean, 1,000 votes separating them in Milwaukee County. Take a look at some of these other places. [28:53] Marathon County, 81% in. That's gone for Francesca Hong. Eau Claire County, 78% in. It's gone for [28:58] Francesca Hong. La Crosse County, 92% in for Francesca Hong. But look at all this light blue. That's [29:04] David Crowley. He's winning in a lot of these other places, and there are about 10 counties that are not [29:08] accounted for yet. So when you have numbers that are that close, it's very hard to know where this is going. [29:14] I want to just go next door to Minnesota, where the Senate race is on there. This is coming in [29:18] very, very slowly. When you and I first talked at the top of the show, it was 21% in. Now it's 24% [29:23] in. Peggy Flanagan is leading there a little more decisively, a 15, almost 16,000 vote lead over Angie [29:30] Craig. And we are seeing the votes in Ramsey County, which is St. Paul. Peggy Flanagan winning decisively [29:35] there. Hennepin County, which is Minneapolis, again, almost 59% to 40%. So she's winning in a lot of the [29:43] major population centers. But as you can see, a lot of holes left to fill in. 75% of the vote [29:48] left to come in in Minnesota. So we'll keep an eye on both of these races through the course of the [29:52] hour and perhaps for the next few hours, Lawrence. Thanks, Ali. Pleasure. Well, here is the latest [29:59] version of the lie being told about Donald Trump's failing economy by Donald Trump and his White House [30:07] team. Thanks to President Trump and Republicans in common sense policies across the board. Our [30:14] country is safer. Our country is more affordable. USA Today reports in a survey of 1075 consumers in [30:23] June, 30% of respondents said they used a credit card to pay for essentials such as groceries, [30:29] gas, utilities or medical bills in the past three months, knowing they may not pay off their bill. [30:36] In his latest column for The New York Times, Nicholas Kristof traveled the country to discuss [30:41] the economy and found, quote, many of us are blind to how many people have been left far behind, [30:49] so far behind that they scarcely inhabit the same country as the rest of us. And this pain across [30:55] America is now magnified by President Trump's cuts in food stamps, Medicaid, mental health funding for [31:02] children, pregnancy prevention initiatives and other social programs, as well as by rising gas and food prices. [31:11] I visited the home of Latoya Foster, 31, a single mother with six children who has lost food stamps. [31:19] Without food stamps, Foster now is behind in her rent $650 a month for a three bedroom home in a crime [31:28] ridden neighborhood and accumulating a $25 a day late fee on top of the rent owed. I hit rock bottom daily, [31:38] she told me. The more I work, the harder stuff gets. And then she broke down and wept. [31:46] Journey to us now is Nicholas Kristof, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and columnist for The New York Times. [31:53] Nick, I know you have traveled the world, traveled to the poorest places in this world, seeing people struggle. [31:59] Now you're bringing that eye to the United States and what's going on here. And Donald Trump would simply call it all lies that this suffering just doesn't exist. [32:11] Yeah. You know, I think that there are a lot of policy makers who inhabit this bubble in which the price of gas doesn't much matter, [32:22] in which cutting one and a half million kids off of food stamps over the last year doesn't matter so much. [32:30] But when you go in that other world, this this other America, boy, the pain is already intense and it's getting worse. [32:40] And, you know, and there is this myth about the the undeserving poor. [32:45] And, you know, there is no doubt that there are many poor people who make bad choices, just as there are many rich people who make bad choices. [32:54] But the woman you just mentioned, Latoya Foster, you know, this is a woman who is working for thirteen dollars an hour as a shift manager at Taco Bell. [33:04] She's trying to earn a college degree so she can be a teacher as well. [33:10] She's raising her kids. She's really trying to do everything right. [33:16] And all of a sudden her food stamps were taken away on which she and her kids completely rely. [33:24] And so she can't pay rent. And so they're at risk of being homeless. [33:27] And it's just, you know, everywhere I went on this one thousand mile road trip, Lawrence, I ran into stories like this. It just broke my heart. [33:38] When you just mentioned use that phrase, the other America, as I'm sure, you know, that's the title of Michael Harrington's book on American poverty that he wrote. [33:46] Just at the at the beginning of the Kennedy presidency in 1960, President Kennedy read that book and it changed the government's approach to this. [33:56] It was the beginning of the war on poverty. President Kennedy went to some of those places that Michael Harrington wrote about. [34:03] It now seems impossible that you're writing in The New York Times would bring anyone from certainly from Republican side of our politics in Washington, anyone in the Trump administration to visit that other America now. [34:18] And one of the things that I admired about Michael Harrington's other America was his focus on kids and the importance of supporting kids. [34:28] And it seems as if right now we're doing the opposite, you know, that we are taking away food stamps from children. [34:35] So I talked to a teacher who is describing how kids are hungry at school. [34:40] We're abandoning adolescent pregnancy prevention programs, which means it's more likely that there will be teen pregnancy with complications for both mother and child. [34:51] Head Start is being well, twelve billion dollars was withheld from it, apparently illegally. [34:58] And now it appears to be in the process of being transformed so that it won't serve needy children. [35:04] And this boy, Lawrence, you know, the it's hard to overstate the desperation that this serves. [35:15] And in Oklahoma City, I talked to a woman, you know what her total assets were. [35:19] She had three dollars and seventy eight cents in her checking account. [35:22] She had one penny in her savings account to keep to keep it alive and six pennies in her piggyback. [35:28] And that was her total assets. [35:30] She sells blood plasma to have an income. [35:33] And she you quote her saying to people like Donald Trump, you do not know what you're doing to people who are struggling to live. [35:45] You got money in the bank. You don't know how it feels to struggle. [35:48] Live in my shoes for one day. You wouldn't be able to handle it. [35:52] And everyone knows that Donald Trump would not be able to handle it. [35:56] But he is couldn't live in a in a more different world than than that woman is suffering through tonight. [36:08] And I think I mean, it's not only Trump, I think, frankly, a lot of us don't understand those kinds of choices that they make. [36:14] I mean, she can she has food stamps. [36:16] She fears they're going to be cut off now, but she can't use those to buy toilet paper by feminine hygiene products. [36:23] And so she's desperately scrounging to get toilet paper. [36:26] She cuts her own hair. [36:27] And, you know, and for a long time she was she was living in a place for reduced rent in with a landlord who insisted on having sex with her. [36:41] And she had to, you know, make this terrible choice about homelessness or coercive sex. [36:48] And I think that there are just so many folks around the country who are being pushed into really difficult, impossible positions because of these benefit cuts that are taking place across the country right now. [37:01] Nicholas Kristof, thank you for your invaluable reporting on The Other America. [37:07] And thank you for joining us tonight. [37:08] Glad to be with you. [37:10] Coming up, our next guest is demanding that Elon Musk be subpoenaed to testify to Congress and answer for his, quote, fraud on the American people. [37:22] Congressman James Walkinshaw joins us next. [37:25] A report by the Government Accountability Office now shows that Elon Musk's so-called Department of Government efficiency was consistently lying about what it was achieving. [37:45] The Washington Post editorial board wrote Elon Musk said he would cut two trillion dollars of federal spending with his Department of Government efficiency when it disbanded. [37:56] U.S. [37:57] U.S. [37:58] Doge Service estimated that it had achieved $215 billion in savings. [38:03] Alas, even that figure was wildly exaggerated. [38:08] Almost $35 billion of the $61 billion Doge claimed in contract savings was either not terminated or could not be identified by the Government Accountability Office because of poor record keeping. [38:25] As for government grants, the report says that Doge did not provide sufficient information to verify the method used to calculate 96% of Doge reported savings. [38:41] Our next guest, Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw of Virginia, is now calling on House Republican Oversight Committee Chair James Comer to subpoena Elon Musk. [38:51] Congressman Walkinshaw writing to Elon Musk on social media, quote, Doge didn't just fail to accomplish its stated goals. [38:59] It was a fraud on the American people. [39:02] Will you come before the Doge subcommittee to answer for it? [39:06] Joining us now is Democratic Representative James Walkinshaw of Virginia, member of the House Oversight and Homeland Security Committees and the co-chair of the Congressional Federal Workforce Caucus. [39:17] Have you gotten a reply from Elon Musk? [39:20] I have not gotten a reply. [39:23] You know, it sounds like he's he's busy with some challenging earnings calls from SpaceX and Tesla, but I'm still hopeful that we'll get a reply. [39:32] Look, I think both the GAO and the Washington Post were being polite. [39:37] The reality is that Elon Musk and Doge lied to the American people. [39:43] They said they were going to root out fraud. [39:46] Turns out they've committed a fraud against the American people and flat out making up these savings. [39:52] And they did incredible damage along the way. [39:56] One thing he did succeed at was destroying the United States Agency for International Development, literally taking food away from starving people in famine conditions, [40:06] taking life saving medicine away from people. [40:09] That was a small amount of money compared to what he was claiming he was going to do. [40:15] But he was able to get at one of the lowest levels of spending in the federal government. [40:22] But there's little else to point to of what he permanently achieved. [40:29] What do you what would you want to ask him in testimony? [40:35] Well, one, I'd want to ask why they falsified these numbers that were posted on their on their so-called wall of receipts. [40:43] I'd like to understand that. [40:46] I'd like to understand whether he really sincerely believed that you can make a significant impact in balancing the budget by slashing and eliminating agencies like USAID that make up a minuscule amount of the federal budget. [41:01] I'd like to know why they fired nuclear weapons experts, why they fired cybersecurity experts, why they fired folks who we could really use right now to help the United States confront growing threats in all these different areas. [41:17] As you go forward, by the way, asking Elon Musk a question on social media, especially challenging. [41:26] It doesn't seem difficult to get a response from him. [41:29] He spends all of his time getting in angry fights with people and anyone who tries to challenge him. [41:34] But somehow your question is the one he's afraid of answering, apparently, on social media. [41:40] Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, he likes to go down every weird Internet rabbit hole that there is. [41:48] But I don't think he wants to revisit or relive this failed Doge experiment. [41:55] I mean, the other thing that Doge did we haven't even talked about, they took the database that includes the Social Security number of every single American, you, me and the other 300 million Americans. [42:05] They put that on an insecure server and transferred it to an organization with a political agenda. [42:11] We still don't know what has happened to the Social Security numbers and information of every single American that Doge put at risk. [42:18] Congressman James Walkinshaw, thank you very much for joining us tonight. [42:23] Thanks, Lawrence. [42:24] We'll be right back. [42:26] Congressman James Walkinshaw gets tonight's last word.