The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell - April 8 — Audio Only

[0:01] The last word with Jonathan Capehart in for Lawrence starts right now. Hey, Jonathan. [0:05] Hey, Jen, you just caught me. I was sending you a text message because I just took a picture of us [0:10] in the frame during the commercial break. Good. Well, good. Well, I'll text you back, [0:17] not during the show when it's over. Oh, please do. I multitask. [0:20] Okay, perfect. I know you do. All right, Jen. Have a good night. [0:23] Thank you. Talk to you soon. [0:25] So Donald Trump is trying to claim victory for the temporary ceasefire with Iran in a war that he [0:33] started that has achieved nothing. In a post just after midnight, Donald Trump called it, quote, [0:40] a big day for world peace, just hours after threatening to kill an entire civilization of [0:46] people. This morning, it was Pete Hexeth's turn to compliment Donald Trump for not following through [0:52] on Trump's threat to commit war crimes against the people of Iran. [0:58] President Trump had the power to cripple Iran's entire economy in minutes, but he choose, he chose [1:06] mercy. He spared those targets because Iran accepted the ceasefire under overwhelming pressure. [1:14] The new Iranian regime understood that a deal was far better than the fate that awaited them. [1:20] Donald Trump added, quote, [1:24] The United States of America will be helping with the traffic buildup in the Strait of Hormuz. [1:29] There will be lots of positive action. Big money will be made. Iran can start the reconstruction [1:36] process. We'll be loading up with supplies of all kinds and just hanging around in order to make sure [1:43] that everything goes well. I feel confident that it will. The New York Times reports that the ceasefire, [1:51] quote, resolved none of the fundamental issues that led to the war. It leaves a theocratic government [1:58] backed by the vicious Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in charge of a cowed population still under the [2:05] thumb of a familiar regime, even if under new management. It leaves Iran's nuclear stockpile in [2:11] place, including the 970 pounds of near bomb grade material that was, in theory, the causes balai of [2:20] this war. And Iran reportedly still remains in control of the Strait of Hormuz. The Wall Street [2:26] Journal reports, quote, Iran told mediators it would limit the number of ships crossing the Strait of [2:32] Hormuz to around a dozen a day and charge tolls under the ceasefire. Ships that pass will have to [2:39] coordinate with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the powerful paramilitary group that has been [2:44] labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S. and the European Union, Arab mediators said. When asked [2:52] by Jonathan Karl of ABC News about the Iranians charging a toll for all ships that go through the [2:59] Strait of Hormuz, Donald Trump said, quote, we're thinking of doing it as a joint venture. [3:05] It's a way of securing it. Also securing it from lots of other people. It's a beautiful thing. [3:15] Sure, Donald. Let's add more confusion to this fragile ceasefire of your own making. [3:22] For starters, it's unclear if the Strait of Hormuz is even open right now. [3:27] According to the Associated Press, Iranian state media reports that Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz [3:33] again today in retaliation after Israel continued attacking Lebanon, killing at least 182 people [3:40] and wounding hundreds more. According to officials, the highest single-day death toll in the Israel-Hezbollah [3:47] war, Iranian officials have maintained that the deal was supposed to include Lebanon, [3:52] while Israel and the U.S. have insisted that it does not. Iran's foreign minister retweeted the post [3:59] from Pakistan, who mediated the deal, showing its inclusion of Lebanon, adding, quote, [4:06] the Iran U.S. ceasefire terms are clear and explicit. The U.S. must choose ceasefire or continued [4:13] war via Israel. It cannot have both. The White House press secretary disputed that today. [4:23] That is completely unacceptable. And again, this is a case of what they're saying publicly is different [4:27] privately. We have seen an uptick of traffic in the Strait today. And I will reiterate the president's [4:33] expectation and demand that the Strait of Hormuz is reopened immediately, quickly and safely. [4:39] But The New York Times reports, quote, [4:44] no oil or gas tankers have traversed the Strait since the ceasefire was struck on Tuesday, [4:49] according to data provided to The New York Times by Kepler, a global ship, global ship tracking firm. [4:56] Four bulk carriers, vessels that carry dry cargo, did make it through. Since those reports, no vessels have [5:02] appeared to cross the Strait, according to Kepler's data. The most recent vessel to cross the waterway, [5:08] a cargo ship, was tracked in the middle of the Strait around 1045 a.m. Eastern time on Wednesday, [5:15] according to the maritime data. [5:18] So the Strait of Hormuz remains worse off today than before Donald Trump started his pointless war. [5:25] There's also confusion over Iran's 10-point plan for a peace deal that Donald Trump last night called [5:32] a, quote, workable basis on which to negotiate. The New York Times reports, Iran released its version [5:40] of the proposal the morning after the United States and Iran agreed to a two-week ceasefire [5:46] and calls for American troops to leave the region, reasserts Iran's control over the strategic Strait of [5:52] Hormuz and maintains Iran's right to nuclear enrichment. Much of it consisted of maximalist [6:00] demands that look difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile with U.S. aims. A White House official [6:06] said the points do not match what Mr. Trump was referring to. When asked about Iran's 10-point plan [6:15] in a phone interview with Sky News, Donald Trump responded, [6:18] you don't know what the points are. I know what they are, according to Sky News. He added, [6:26] many of the points are very good and most of them have been fully negotiated. If it isn't good, [6:33] we'll go right back to it very quickly. The Speaker of Iran's Parliament accused the United States and [6:40] Israel of violating other points of that plan, including denial of Iran's right to enrichment. [6:47] On that point, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said this today. [6:51] It's always been non-negotiable that they won't have nuclear capabilities. And so, [6:56] right now, it's buried and we're watching it. We know exactly what they have. And they know that. [7:01] And they will either give it to us, which the president has laid out. They'll give it to us [7:06] voluntarily. We'll get it. We'll take it. We'll take it out. Or if we have to do something else [7:10] ourselves, like we did in Midnight Hammer or something like that, we reserve that opportunity. [7:14] Vice President J.D. Vance, who is set to lead a U.S. delegation for in-person talks in Pakistan [7:22] this weekend, said this. If Iran wants to let this negotiation fall apart in a conflict where [7:29] they were getting hammered over Lebanon, which has nothing to do with them and which the United [7:35] States never once said was part of the ceasefire, that's ultimately their choice. We think that would [7:40] be dumb, but that's their choice. Fundamentally, we're in a good spot. They're reopening the straits. [7:44] We have a ceasefire. And frankly, if they break their end of the bargain, then they're going to [7:48] see some serious consequences. So even if this ceasefire holds, what has Donald Trump gotten out [7:56] of his war with Iran that killed 13 U.S. service members, thousands of civilians and roiled global [8:03] energy markets? As Bloomberg notes today, quote, at first glance, not much. The same core challenges [8:11] remain. The most obvious thing Trump got, the potential reopening of the Strait of Hormuz at [8:16] best restores the status quo and might not even do that. Meanwhile, Trump's erratic month as a wartime [8:23] president and his frantic search for an off ramp will color how enemies and allies deal with him going [8:30] forward. The top Democrat in the Senate, Chuck Schumer of New York, put it this way, quote, [8:38] Trump is a military moron. His war with a price tag of $44 billion and $4-plus gas [8:45] made us worse off today than we were when he started it. And Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul [8:54] Krigman sums up where the U.S. stands today because of Donald Trump's war this way, quote, [9:00] We've also destroyed our moral credibility. Trump may have tacoed at the last minute, [9:06] but he threatened to commit gigantic war crimes. And for all practical purposes, [9:11] our political and civil institutions gave him permission to do so. [9:17] Leading off our discussion tonight, Congresswoman Madeline Dean, Democrat of Pennsylvania. [9:22] She is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congresswoman, always good to see you. [9:26] Thank you for coming to The Last Word. So after all this damage, this death, when you look at where [9:34] things are, is Iran in a stronger or weaker position than it was before this war started? [9:40] I'll tell you that the world is in a weaker position. America is in a weaker position, [9:48] not because of the excellence of our military, don't get me wrong, but because of the erratic, [9:54] mad nature of this president. And clearly, Iran recognizes as much devastation as it has suffered, [10:04] the decapitation of the Ayatollah that none of us is sorry about. Iran has not lost much at all, [10:13] and in fact, controls the state, the Strait of Hormuz, is profiting now in ways greater than it had [10:21] before, from the sale of its oil, the president having lifted sanctions on them, and the control [10:32] that it has gotten. The president has just flailed about, showed himself to be unhinged, unwell. And I [10:41] don't like saying that, but it is so very obvious to me as a citizen and to our allies and foes around [10:50] the world. Iran isn't winning, but the United States is not winning either. And I keep thinking of [10:58] children, children in the role, children terrified in Iran. And I remember being in Denmark, [11:07] as President Trump was trying to take Greenland, a NATO allies territory, and learning from the prime [11:15] ministers there of Greenland and of Denmark, that the children there are terrified of America. [11:22] Is this really what this president wants, to be remembered for rubble, destruction, [11:29] and terrified children around the world, including right here in the United States? [11:33] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: Congresswoman, with so many details still unclear, [11:37] how confident are you that this two-week ceasefire will hold? And do you have confidence this [11:43] administration can resolve this war and end the fighting? [11:47] CATHERINE RAMSEY, President of the United States, of course, I don't have any confidence. [11:50] That's what's so sad. We want a commander-in-chief who's in command, who has his faculties with him, [11:58] and who is surrounded by the best of the best. He has General Cain, Chairman Cain. I'm very [12:04] relieved and happy for that. I've had the chance to meet with him several times. [12:08] But the others around him are sycophants, are yes-men and women, now some of them dismissed. [12:16] So, no, none of us can have a confidence. And, Jonathan, I can't get over what happened Sunday, [12:23] what the president tweeted Sunday Easter morning. [12:27] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: Mm-hmm. [12:28] CATHERINE RAMSEY, President of the United States, We should never allow anyone to get away [12:32] with that kind of blasphemous, profane conversation. That's a statement from the [12:39] president of the United States, the commander-in-chief that is grotesquely un-American. [12:47] And I call upon my Republican colleagues. Why are they so silent? Why aren't they like I and many [12:53] others who are saying, it's time for the 25th Amendment? [12:56] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: Of course, this president should have been impeached before and is eligible [13:02] for impeachment now. But where are they? Why can't they say, this is beyond the pale? [13:09] And then for him to have said, honest to God, I think this was Monday morning. [13:14] At 5 or 6 in the morning, President Donald Trump posted on social media, [13:19] a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. Where are the Republicans? [13:28] Where is the vice president? Where are the secretaries? Where is the 25th Amendment? [13:33] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: Well, on that point, Congresswoman, you have called on the Cabinet, [13:38] as you just now did, but you have been calling on the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment. [13:43] And House Democrats will attempt to introduce a War Powers Resolution. Is there even enough support [13:49] for either one of those things? [13:51] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: I hope so. I think we are crossing a Rubicon that even Republicans, [13:57] I hope, actually recognize is so dangerous to our democracy and much more dangerous to this world. [14:08] You remember the anxiety of last night? You imagine every one of us wondering what will happen in [14:15] the hours leading up to 8 o'clock because a madman is in control? Please, folks, let's recognize this man [14:24] is unhinged and he is unwell. It is recognizable to every single one of us citizens. And it's time we [14:32] do something. We are going to be—I'll go to D.C. tomorrow and be a part of introducing a ranking [14:40] member Meek's War Powers Resolution. Of course Congress has the responsibility, the duty, [14:47] and the president has the responsibility, the duty, to have come to us before launching into this war of [14:53] choice. Remember, war is usually a last resort. War in this dangerous theater should have been an [15:01] extraordinary last resort. But this president recklessly, knowing conversations were going on, [15:07] diplomatic conversations were going on, decided to launch into this war, I think very much egged on [15:14] by Mr. Netanyahu from the very dramatic reporting that we are seeing from Maggie Haberman and others. [15:21] And so I hope our War Powers Resolution is successful to reclaim our Article I responsibility [15:31] to declare war or to deny the president the right to go to war. [15:35] The speaker of the House has been just shrinking in his responsibilities. I don't know how he rests at night. [15:43] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: And to your point, that excellent reporting that you're talking about, [15:47] it's from Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. It is on the front page of The New York Times. [15:51] And folks who are watching, if you have not read it yet, read it, and you will more fully understand [15:57] what Congresswoman Madeline Dean was just talking about. Congresswoman, as always, thank you [16:01] very much for coming to The Last Word. [16:03] LISA DESJARDINS- Thanks, Jonathan, for inviting me. [16:05] WILLIAM BRANGHAM, Jr.: Coming up, it is time to remove Donald Trump from the presidency. [16:11] History is watching. Do the right thing. Those are the words of one Oversight Committee member today. [16:18] The calls for the 25th Amendment are increasing. As you just heard from Congresswoman Madeline Dean, [16:24] we will see if any Republicans who are seeing poll after poll showing that they are headed for a [16:29] midterm blowout, will decide it's time to stand up to Trump. And that's next. [16:35] House Democrats say they will hold a briefing on Friday on how they plan to hold the Trump [16:47] administration accountable as calls grow within the party to remove Donald Trump from office [16:53] using the 25th Amendment. In a video posted online, Congresswoman Madeline, [16:59] Melanie Stansbury, a member of the House Oversight Committee, lays out that argument in stark terms. [17:05] LISA DESJARDINS- Today, the United States stands at a crossroad. [17:11] It is time to remove Donald Trump from the presidency. The president of the United States [17:19] used his social media platform to threaten to wipe a civilization from the face of the planet. [17:28] Let us be clear. Not only is this activity unbefitting a president of the United States, [17:36] but it is the threat of actual crimes against humanity and war crimes under international law. [17:44] And it is clear that Donald Trump is no longer, nor has he ever been, fit to serve as president of [17:51] this United States and as the commander in chief. And so that is why I am calling for the invocation of [17:59] the 25th Amendment by the cabinet, why I am calling for the impeachment by Congress, and why I am calling [18:07] for the passage of a war powers resolution in Congress to stop this president right now. [18:14] But that requires the cabinet to act. And so we are calling on our Republican colleagues in the cabinet, [18:21] we are calling on our Republican colleagues in the Congress to do the right thing for this country, [18:27] for the American people, and for the safety and well-being of millions across this planet. [18:35] This is the moment. History is watching. Do the right thing. [18:41] House oversight Democrats are also threatening to begin contempt proceedings against fired Trump [18:48] Attorney General Pam Bondi after, surprise, surprise, the Justice Department told the Oversight [18:54] Committee that Bondi does not have to comply with the subpoena and testify about the Epstein files next [19:00] week since she's no longer working in the Trump administration. [19:05] Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico. She is a member [19:11] of the House Oversight Committee. Congresswoman, very powerful video you put out. We just played big [19:17] chunks of it. Today, the path to impeachment runs through the Republican-controlled Congress, [19:23] and the 25th Amendment runs through the Trump Cabinet. What do you say to voters who say, [19:30] yeah, it'll never happen? [19:33] Well, I think we have to be clear and use every tool, every platform, and our voices to continue [19:40] to speak up, to speak out, and to take action for an administration that we know is daily [19:47] violating the rights of Americans. It's violating international law and a president that is completely [19:53] out of control. Because silence is deadly. Silence is not an option. And so, I understand the frustration of [20:00] the American people. But our only option as a free country is to use our voices to ask our Republican [20:08] colleagues to act. And so, we have to use every tool we have, whether that is asking the Cabinet to take [20:15] action to remove a president that is clearly unfit, whether that is putting pressure on our Republican [20:20] colleagues in Congress to take action to rein in the president through impeachment and through a war powers [20:26] resolution, and to ask voters who are showing up not just in November in this midterm election, [20:34] but are showing up weekly for special elections all across the country to use your voice and your vote, [20:40] to tell this president and this regime that we are not going to stand for the abuses that [20:45] are happening here in the United States right now. [20:48] NICK SCHIFRIN- Well, Congress, I mean, if Republicans keep enabling Trump, [20:52] what will Democrats do if they win control of Congress in November to hold Trump accountable next year? [20:58] NANCY CORDES- Well, clearly, one of our key goals is to reestablish the checks and balances that [21:05] were put into place by the Constitution and which our Republican colleagues are failing to uphold in this [21:11] moment. And so, among the things that we must do, in my personal opinion, is that we must proceed to [21:18] impeach the president. We must impeach any Cabinet official or official who is enabled, illegal, [21:25] and unconstitutional behavior. And I believe that whatever administration comes in after this [21:31] administration has to take seriously the prosecution of any crimes. It's not just enough for Congress to [21:38] investigate. Individuals who have committed crimes against U.S. citizens, against immigrants, against [21:45] war crimes internationally, need to be held accountable under the law. [21:49] NICK SCHIFRIN- All right. Let's talk about now former Attorney General Pam Bondi. In response [21:55] to the Trump DOJ attempting to block Pam Bondi from testifying to the House Oversight Committee, you said, [22:01] I hope she is ready to face contempt. Otherwise, we look forward to seeing you at your deposition. [22:07] AG or not, those responsible for this cover-up will be held accountable. [22:11] The survivors deserve justice. Congresswoman, what do you believe they are trying to prevent from coming out? [22:18] LESLIE KENDRICK- Well, it's very clear that, since day one, Pam Bondi has been at the top of a snake [22:24] that is trying to essentially engage in the largest cover-up in American history with the Epstein files. [22:32] And in order to do that, she has lied to the American people. She has hidden files. She has failed [22:37] to comply with a congressional subpoena from last year. She has failed to comply with the Epstein [22:42] Files Transparency Act. And she has lied to the American public and conducted herself in such a way [22:50] that she must be held accountable. And so we have subpoenaed her. It is a lawful subpoena. [22:55] She is now trying to use her attorney general, who has taken her place, to shield her from having to [23:03] come and testify. And we are not going to stand for it. We plan to bring up a vote to hold her in contempt [23:11] if she doesn't show for her deposition. And if she doesn't, then she will be referred for contempt, [23:18] which has criminal consequences. [23:20] GEOFF BENNETT- Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico, [23:24] thank you very much for coming to The Last Word. [23:26] MELANIE STANSBURY- Absolutely. [23:28] GEOFF BENNETT- Coming up, as Donald Trump [23:30] is searching for a way out of the war he started with Iran, your gas prices are still going up. [23:36] Today, it cost you $4.16 a gallon to fill up your tank, [23:42] and experts don't see much relief coming in the near future. [23:45] That's just part of how Trump's war is costing you. [23:48] I'm going to be talking about that next with Congressman Brendan Boyle. [23:59] Donald Trump said just one week ago that once his war on Iran ends, quote, [24:05] that gas prices will rapidly come back down. Today, they went up. [24:12] Despite the United States agreeing to a two-week ceasefire, [24:16] rapidly is not a word analysts would use to describe how quickly gas prices will fall. [24:21] As the fragile ceasefire continues to be tested, CNBC reports, [24:26] energy and commodity markets are likely to remain on a structurally higher floor [24:31] regardless of the ceasefire outcome, said BCA research's Matt Gertgen. [24:36] As governments hoard and restock in anticipation of renewed conflicts, [24:40] keeping oil and gas prices elevated well above pre-war levels, [24:45] even in a scenario where shipping resumes. According to AAA, the national average for [24:51] a gallon of regular gas rose today to $4.16, up from $2.98 just before the United States [25:01] and Israel launched their war on Iran, and up 91 cents from a year ago. Axios reports, [25:09] Iran agreed to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, but the economic fallout from five weeks of effective [25:14] closure is just beginning. Supply chains don't unsnarl overnight. The gloomiest forecasts for the [25:21] U.S. economy from the war may not come to pass, but shortages and price shocks will continue to [25:27] pinch the world for months. There are real prospects that Iran will now effectively tax shipments [25:34] through the Strait indefinitely, creating a new constraint on the global supply of oil and other [25:39] commodities that didn't exist before the war. Traders don't see prices falling back to pre-war [25:46] levels this year, according to forward-looking oil futures contracts, suggesting higher energy [25:52] prices for months to come. The price surge comes alongside shortages for fertilizer, helium, and [25:59] other critical inputs that might continue to hamstring global manufacturers. The Washington Post [26:06] reports, as long as fuel prices remain elevated, grocery prices on shelves are also expected to [26:13] increase in coming months, as the effects of rising energy and fertilizer costs filter down [26:19] to consumers. The first items to see those upticks could be perishable foods such as berries, [26:26] dairy, and meat, which often require refrigeration during transportation. [26:32] This morning, Donald Trump threatened tariffs for countries helping Iran, posting, quote, [26:39] a country supplying military weapons to Iran will be immediately tariffed on any and all goods sold to [26:46] the United States of America. 50% effective immediately. There will be no exclusions, no exceptions. [26:57] Trump, of course, offered no legal basis for how he would enact those tariffs since the Supreme Court, [27:04] including two of the justices he appointed, ruled the Trump tariffs are unconstitutional. [27:11] Donald Trump also posted, quote, [27:14] we are and will be talking tariff and sanctions relief with Iran. [27:20] Today, Pulitzer Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman writes that Iran won, quote, [27:27] the Iranian regime has emerged far stronger than it was before, controlling the Strait of Hormuz [27:33] and having demonstrated its ability to inflict damage on both its neighbors and the world economy. [27:39] The U.S. has emerged far weaker, having demonstrated the limitations of its military technology, [27:47] its strategic ineptitude, and when push comes to shove, it's cowardice. [27:54] Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He is the top Democrat on the [28:00] House Budget Committee and a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. Congressman Boyle, [28:05] great to see you. Gas prices aren't going to fall as rapidly as Donald Trump claims they will. [28:12] In what other ways is Trump's war raising costs for American families? [28:18] Well, the increases have been both direct and indirect. So first, in terms of the direct costs, [28:24] we are now approaching $50 billion total price tag to the U.S. taxpayer. That is a massive sum. To put [28:34] that in perspective, you remember some months ago the whole debate over whether or not to extend [28:40] the Obamacare tax credits. Democrats were pushing for this. Republicans refused to do it. Republicans [28:46] said we couldn't afford it. To do that for one year cost $27 billion. So we have already, over the last [28:54] under 40 days this has been going on in Iran, we have already spent about double what it would have [29:00] cost to extend the tax, Obamacare tax premiums, and save the healthcare of millions of Americans. [29:07] So that's just in terms of direct costs to the taxpayers. But then there are all those other [29:11] costs, both direct and indirect, such as what you pay at the pump, such as the increased cost of the [29:16] supermarket because the cost of transportation went up, et cetera, et cetera. And once this takes place, [29:24] as we learned from the pandemic, once you break something, it can take a very long time to [29:31] untangle that knot and get everything back online. It took us several years in order to restore the [29:37] economy fully after the pandemic and fix those broken supply lines. I fear this will take a long time as [29:45] well. Congressman Boyle, speaking of how much money has been spent on this war already, Trump's new [29:52] budget makes deep cuts to domestic programs and would, quote, boost the Pentagon by more than 40% [30:00] in the fiscal year beginning in October, Politico reports. So Congressman, in light of this fragile [30:06] ceasefire and the rise in everyday costs, what do you make of that kind of military spending? [30:11] Well, and let's not forget this is not happening in a vacuum. This takes place [30:16] some nine months after Trump and congressional Republicans on a party line basis passed their [30:23] tax plan over the summer, signed by the president into law the 4th of July. What did that do? [30:29] It was the largest tax cuts for billionaires in American history, [30:34] paid for by the largest cuts to healthcare in American history, the largest cuts nutrition assistance [30:40] and education in American history. So we're already going to see, we know, according to the [30:45] Congressional Budget Office, more than 15 million Americans lose their healthcare and that has [30:51] already begun as of January 1st of this year. Now you have this new, what they call skinny budget [30:58] proposal from the White House last week, which doubled down, doubles down on that and says we need [31:03] even more cuts to healthcare and education so we can spend more money on the Department of Defense. [31:09] It is out of whack with what most Americans want today. [31:13] Congressman Boyle, your state, the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, [31:18] voted for Donald Trump in 2024. Any sense of buyer's remorse from voters you've encountered? [31:26] Well, you know, it's amazing just how close Pennsylvania always is. We tracked exactly with [31:31] the national popular vote in 2024. Donald Trump won the state by just over one point while he was winning [31:37] nationally by just over one point. We have also, over the last three cycles, moved in pretty close [31:43] tandem with the states of Michigan and Wisconsin. What we have seen in these special elections in [31:49] those three states I've just cited, including and especially Pennsylvania, over the last 15 months, [31:56] Democrats are overperforming in these special elections by an average of 16 points. That is remarkable [32:03] in a state in which typically victory or defeat is determined by one point. So if we see an over [32:10] performance anywhere like what we saw in Wisconsin last night or what we've seen in recent special [32:15] elections here in Pennsylvania, if we see anything like that this upcoming November, it would not be [32:21] a wave election. It would be a blue tsunami. Congressman Brendan Boyle, I want to thank you for [32:28] two reasons. One, for coming to the last word and two, for perfectly setting up our next block. Thank you [32:34] very much for being here. Thank you. Coming up, what a difference a year makes. Elon Musk got his [32:42] proverbial clock cleaned when he tried to buy a conservative victory in last year's Supreme Court [32:48] election in Wisconsin. And in last night's election, the liberal candidate won by double digits, [32:55] further protecting the court from conservative control. Ben Wickler, who knows Wisconsin politics [33:01] inside and out and helped stop Musk in Wisconsin in 2025. He'll join us next. Democrats notched a big [33:16] win in a key election last night, another victory in a string of promising election results for [33:21] Democrats ahead of the 2026 midterms. In Wisconsin, Chris Taylor, the Democratic-backed liberal candidate [33:28] for the state Supreme Court, won by double digits. The 20-point blowout emphasized the growing [33:35] Democratic momentum in Wisconsin, a state which Donald Trump won by less than 30,000 votes in 2024. [33:43] The result is also poised to have a far-reaching impact in Wisconsin beyond this election. [33:49] Politico reports, Taylor's win expands liberals' majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court to a 5-2 [33:56] split. The court's liberals have made use of their majority in recent years. In 2023, the court ordered [34:03] new legislative maps in Wisconsin, effectively ending a GOP gerrymander that had lasted for over a decade. [34:10] And last July, the panel overturned Wisconsin's 176-year-old abortion ban by a 4-3 majority. [34:20] Here's Chris Taylor during her victory speech last night. [34:27] Wisconsin showed the entire nation that we believe that the people should be [34:34] at the center of government and the priority and the priority of our judiciary, not the billionaires, [34:46] not the most powerful and privileged, but the people. [34:51] And the special election last night in Georgia to fill former Trump loyalist Marjorie Taylor Greene's [35:00] congressional seat also bodes well for Democrats. Republican Clayton Fuller won the race over [35:06] Democrat Sean Harris, but his margin of victory fell well short of previous Republican results in the [35:13] district. CNBC reports, the win may offer little solace for Republicans, however, as Democrats [35:20] overperformed in the contest. Greene carried the district by 29 percentage points in 2024, [35:27] more than double Fuller's margin of victory. The result could be a good sign for Democrats, [35:32] who are hoping to retain Senator John Ossoff's Senate seat in the Peach State to have any chance [35:38] at gaining a majority in the Senate. Joining us now is Ben Wickler, former Wisconsin Democratic Party [35:46] chair. Chairman Wickler, nice to see you again. You helped deal Elon Musk a huge defeat when he got [35:52] involved in a Wisconsin Supreme Court race last year. What are your initial thoughts following last [35:58] night's huge win for Wisconsin Democrats? This was a blowout. And this was a blowout [36:05] that came because thousands of people who are furious about what Trump is doing to this country, [36:10] how unaffordable he's making life while he's sparking these terrible wars, while he's smashing our [36:15] democracy and attacking the rule of law itself, people furious about all of that went to the polls, [36:20] they knocked on doors, they texted their friends, and they delivered a landslide, [36:24] the likes of which Wisconsin hasn't seen in a very long time. And a landslide that sets up [36:30] the possibility of a Democratic sweep in November and real change at a moment when people are [36:35] desperately calling out for it. It's a great, great moment in Wisconsin. [36:39] Well, let me show you two maps that we have. We're going to put them up from The New York Times. [36:43] And they show the shift in voting in this election compared to Wisconsin's [36:47] 2025 Supreme Court election, where the Democrat-backed candidate won by 10 points, [36:53] and the 2024 presidential election results, where Donald Trump won the state by less than 30,000 [37:00] votes. Can you describe the shift in momentum in Wisconsin right now? [37:06] It's extraordinary. And you see it in every corner of the state. I love those two maps, [37:11] because they illustrate that this isn't something where the blue areas are getting bluer, [37:15] but the red areas are getting redder. It's everywhere. You know, last year, [37:19] Elon Musk spent $56 million of his almost limitless fortune to try to buy Wisconsin's [37:26] state Supreme Court seat. And Wisconsin voters said, no, they would not be bought. That was a [37:30] 10-point victory for Susan Crawford. Fast forward one year, Elon Musk didn't show up. His tail is [37:36] between his legs when it comes to Wisconsin's Supreme Court elections. But the GOP machine, [37:41] you know, the billionaires who helped fund the Stop the Steal effort in 2020, [37:45] they put money into ads. They did this and that. And voters doubled the margin of victory. [37:51] This year, our extraordinary candidate, Chris Taylor, flipped 19 additional counties on top of [37:57] all the ones that flipped in 2025, including 18 rural counties. These are places where Republicans [38:02] are used to winning in a walk. And now they voted for Chris Taylor. I think what this shows is that [38:08] there are people everywhere who are furious about what is happening in this country, [38:12] and they're taking it into their own hands to do something about it. That's exactly what we need. [38:16] So then, Chairman Wickler, Wisconsin will be key for the Democrats to flip the House of [38:23] Representatives in the midterms. And good, we got them up there. Out of Wisconsin's eight House seats, [38:29] six are currently held by Republicans. Which seats do you think are most likely to flip Democrat in the fall? [38:36] Well, let's start with the third congressional district. This is a district represented by Derek [38:41] Van Orden, who has been there with Donald Trump over and over and over, who actually went to [38:46] Washington, D.C. for the Stop the Steal rally and then got himself elected to Congress in 2022. [38:52] His district went overwhelmingly for Chris Taylor in the state Supreme Court election just now. [38:57] My successor Democratic Party of Wisconsin chair, Devin Remecker, has been crunching the numbers. It looks [39:02] like the majority, significant majority of congressional districts voted for Chris Taylor in the state [39:07] Supreme Court race yesterday. So frankly, all of these Republicans are on notice. But the third, [39:12] I would also say the first congressional district, that's Brian Stile. He's a guy who's been holding [39:16] hearings trying to support these voter suppression bills and stacking up money. Well, that guy is in a [39:21] purple district. He's acting like he's in an ultra MAGA district, but he's not. And voters have something [39:26] to say about it, as we saw last night. So this is a moment to be on offense, to expand the map, [39:32] and to make sure voters see that they actually have the power to do something about the crisis that's [39:36] unfolding in front of them every day. It can feel kind of powerless to watch the headlines, [39:41] to watch Trump threatening to destroy civilizations. But voters still have the power. And we still have [39:47] free and fair elections in states like Wisconsin, which means that we can create change this year, [39:51] like we did last night. [39:52] JOHN YANG, JR.: Chair Rickler, you blew my mind with a little factoid that you said just a moment ago. [40:02] Basically, you put those six Republican members of Congress on notice that [40:06] their districts... Say that again. What was that again? Their districts in that race... [40:11] The majority of the Republican-held districts, the congressional districts in Wisconsin [40:16] last night voted for Chris Taylor for state Supreme Court. This is someone who was a, [40:22] you know, in a previous career, was a Democratic state legislator who has been [40:25] a distinguished jurist who takes no guff, no nonsense from right-wing billionaires trying to buy our [40:31] court system. And she ran an outstanding campaign and voters in some of the reddest parts of the [40:36] state, they turned out and they voted for her. Ozaukee County used to be the most Republican county in [40:42] Wisconsin. It was blue in the state Supreme Court map last night. This is a place that's supposed to be [40:47] one of the Republican strongholds in the state. This really, I think, demonstrates that something is [40:53] shifting. There's a tectonic shift in Wisconsin politics. And we don't expect a 20-point landslide in [40:58] November. But what we're seeing is that people power can overcome the kind of despair that is [41:04] sending in for so many people in this Trump administration. If you feel like your rights [41:07] are being taken away, if you're watching abortion bans roll out and voter suppression and ICE agents [41:12] shooting people in the streets, the cost of gas exploding, you have the power to fight back. [41:17] We saw that in Wisconsin. We're going to see that across the country this fall. [41:20] Ben Wickler, thank you very much for coming, as always, to The Last Word. [41:26] Thanks so much for having me. [41:28] And tonight's last word is next. [41:31] Finally tonight, we've seen Donald Trump pluck many a media figure out of their jobs and install [41:42] them into the United States government. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth worked weekend mornings [41:49] at Fox. Donald Trump's secretary of transportation, Sean Duffy, used to be a host of one of the shows on [41:56] Fox Business before his gig in the Trump Cabinet. And we can't forget Jeanine Pirro, who could. [42:02] She, of course, went from being a host on Fox to her current role [42:07] as U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia. But now we're seeing a member of the Trump [42:13] administration go the other way. The Associated Press reports, quote, [42:18] Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is launching a new podcast that he says will begin, quote, [42:25] a new era of radical transparency in government, according to a teaser video first obtained by the [42:31] Associated Press. Kennedy bills it as a new way to expose corruption and lies that have made [42:38] Americans sick. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not too keen to take medical advice from the guy [42:45] who said this. I'm not scared of a germ. You know, I used to snort cocaine off of toilet seats. [42:56] That is tonight's last word.