The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell - April 21 — Audio Only

[0:01] It's time for The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Hey, Lawrence. [0:03] Hey, Jen. We have Virginia Governor Abigail Spanberger joining us tonight. [0:09] We also have the next— [0:10] Big night. [0:11] Very big night. The next Speaker of the House, Akeem Jeffries, who took a big step tonight [0:16] to get closer to that Speakership and Democratic control of the House next year. [0:21] You have two of the people who were probably celebrating the most, have done a lot of the work, [0:27] feel probably relieved and happy by the outcome tonight, which is really incredible. [0:32] Yeah, and I actually—so I have reason to believe they were fairly confident this was [0:37] going to happen, which is why they're here at this hour. And we're going to get right to it. [0:43] Sounds good. I look forward to watching. [0:45] Thanks, Jen. Thank you. [0:46] A huge victory for democracy tonight in Virginia, which means another huge loss for Donald Trump [0:56] with American voters turning against Donald Trump once again. Donald Trump is now one step [1:02] closer to losing Republican control of the House of Representatives. The Associated Press [1:07] projects Virginia voters said yes tonight to a redistricting plan designed to fight Donald [1:15] Trump's redistricting conspiracy that he launched in Texas in an attempt to increase the number [1:22] of Republican members of the House of Representatives so that Republicans could hang on to control of [1:27] the House. The redistricting program Virginia voters approved tonight could add possibly four Democrats [1:35] from Virginia to the House of Representatives next year. And Donald Trump knows that Democratic control [1:41] of the House of Representatives means serious subpoena power for investigations of Donald Trump and his [1:49] administration that could once again, if Donald Trump crosses the line again, lead to Donald Trump's [1:57] third impeachment investigation in the House of Representatives. President Obama described the [2:04] stakes to Virginia voters this way. [2:06] Hey, Virginia. Early voting is underway and Virginians are turning out in record numbers to vote yes. [2:16] By voting yes, you have a chance to do something important, not just for the Commonwealth, but for our [2:23] entire country. By voting yes, you can push back against the Republicans trying to give themselves [2:29] an unfair advantage in the midterms. By voting yes, you can take a temporary step to level the playing [2:36] field. And we're counting on you. Make a plan, show up and vote yes, Virginia. [2:43] And leading off our coverage tonight is Virginia Democratic Governor Abigail Spanberger. Governor, [2:51] thank you very much for joining us tonight. What is your reaction to what the voters of Virginia have [2:56] said tonight? Well, I knew that the voters of Virginia would vote yes on this referendum. I knew [3:02] that we would be successful because as President Obama just laid out in that clip that you showed, [3:08] Virginians understood the stakes of this referendum election. Virginians understood that it all began [3:14] when President Trump said that he was entitled to additional congressional seats and when Republican [3:20] legislature after Republican legislature obliged him. What's really important about what we did here [3:26] on the ground in Virginia is that this referendum went before the people. We made sure that the map [3:32] that would be put in place after this referendum was successful was available to voters. [3:36] And ultimately, by the nature of our referendum system, we knew that this redistricting would only [3:43] move forward when Virginians voted for it. So it was really just essential that the vote be [3:49] with the people. I knew that we would see a successful yes vote. And so I'm pleased with the outcome [3:56] because it is our chance, our opportunity to really stand up to what we're seeing in other states. [4:00] And importantly, it also preserves our bipartisan redistricting commission into the future, [4:05] which is important to so many Virginians. But in this moment, we are able to take this responsive [4:10] action with our successful yes vote. So there's a big difference between how Donald Trump did it [4:16] with Texas Republicans, which was never put to a vote of the people of Texas. Then California, [4:25] with under Gavin Newsom's direction, put it to a vote of the entire state, just as you've done, [4:30] put it to a vote to the entire state. Do you feel that has more validity than the process [4:37] that took place in Texas that never was subjected to Texas voters? [4:42] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll tell you why. Our referendum process is a three-part process. [4:48] The General Assembly has to vote to move forward a potential amendment, a constitutional amendment, [4:54] and they have to vote twice on that, which they did. We had majority votes on both votes. [4:58] And then it goes to the people. And so the fact that we had to travel across the Commonwealth of [5:03] Virginia, make our case to the people of Virginia, explain what this referendum in the middle of [5:09] April actually is, why it matters, and why we're encouraging a yes vote, that is a vote where the [5:16] people of our Commonwealth had the ability to say, yes, we want to take this step. We want to pass this [5:22] referendum. And we want to do this redistricting at this moment as a responsive and temporary step. [5:28] Again, preserving our long-term bipartisan redistricting commission, but recognizing the urgency. [5:34] And so it wasn't a bunch of legislators who were trying to do the president's bidding. It wasn't a [5:39] bunch of legislators who were, you know, choosing partisanship over anything else. This was the people [5:45] of Virginia saying, we have this option and we are choosing to take it. [5:50] You've just come from the House of Representatives to the governorship in this last election. What did [5:57] it, in your view, what would it mean if the Republicans were able to conspire with Donald [6:04] Trump to increase the number of Republicans in the House of Representatives so that they [6:09] could cling to control of the House of Representatives for two more years? [6:13] Well, I think they very much understood that the only way they could possibly maintain a [6:19] majority in the House of Representatives, of course, they have a slim, slim majority at the [6:24] moment, was if they cheated, if they went seeking seats in places like Texas, which is why the [6:32] president began this effort, because he knew that at the midterms, much like back in 2018 when I was [6:38] first elected to Congress, that his poor leadership, the chaos that he is creating, the war he's begun with [6:46] Iran, skyrocketing gas prices, failed promise after failed promise, would be enough to propel [6:53] yet another blue wave in a midterm in the 2026 midterm election. And importantly, I believe that [7:01] there will be yet another wave election because people recognize the broken promises and lies [7:07] coming out of this White House. And most importantly, the negative impact on them, [7:12] right? People who may have voted for him believed him when he said he was going to work on lowering [7:17] costs, believed him when he said that he was going to be there for them and support their families or [7:23] their businesses or their communities. And those are all lies. And we see it very, very clearly. [7:28] And so it's essential that there's a Democratic majority in the House of Representatives [7:32] come next January after a win in the midterms, because we need a House of Representatives that will [7:39] be in the majority to conduct vigorous oversight of just about every federal agency and department at [7:47] this moment to ensure accountability and to hold this president and his administration accountable [7:55] to the people, to our Constitution and to our country. [8:01] Was Donald Trump in effect on the ballot tonight in Virginia? [8:05] I think it was — I think one could probably say that, absolutely. The question was, were people [8:14] across the Commonwealth of Virginia going to stand up to his efforts to unfairly kind of tip the scales [8:22] towards a Republican majority in the House of Representatives? And I think it was very much [8:28] certainly a referendum on whether we were going to move forward with our redistricting, but I think [8:33] it was also a referendum on what it is that people saw in his actions. You know, importantly, the no [8:39] campaign as well, they put out tens of millions of dollars worth of lies about what this referendum was, [8:48] importantly, saying that I supported a no vote and saying Barack Obama supported a no vote. [8:54] And it was really pretty interesting across Virginia as I was out either, you know, with my gubernatorial hat on [9:02] doing everyday work or out on the campaign trail for the referendum, hearing people just come to me and [9:09] express complete and utter disgust that it would not just be an aggressive campaign, but a campaign full [9:17] of lies trying to pass, trying to defeat this referendum. And so the resolute nature of so many [9:24] of the Virginia voters who determined that this is a moment where they have an opportunity to stand up [9:29] against the excesses, the abuses, and the lies coming out of the Trump White House, they saw that [9:37] as an opportunity and they surely took it. Virginia Governor Abigail Spanberger in a big win tonight [9:44] in Virginia. Thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight. Thank you so much for having [9:50] me. And thank you to all the Virginians who stepped out and went to the polls. Thank you, Governor. Thank [9:56] you very much. Well, America has turned against Donald Trump. America has turned against Donald Trump [10:05] again in Virginia tonight. Voters in Virginia turned against Donald Trump tonight. Tucker Carlson has now [10:12] turned against Donald Trump. A new poll shows that two thirds of Americans disapprove of Donald Trump. [10:18] Donald Trump's lies aren't working anymore. Nothing Donald Trump says is working anymore. Donald Trump [10:27] began his day by saying, I don't want to do that. And then he did that because he is Donald Trump, [10:35] because he is the only president of the United States in history who thinks his words mean [10:40] absolutely nothing. Donald Trump once again today proved that his words mean absolutely nothing [10:46] when he ended his workday doing exactly what he said he didn't want to do this morning. [10:55] At 8.30 a.m. in a phone call to the morning crew at CNBC, Joe Kernan asked if Donald Trump's deadline [11:04] for attacking Iran again beginning tonight was a real deadline, unlike almost every other Trump deadline. [11:13] If it looks like things are progressing, will you not necessarily extend it to a definitive amount of [11:23] time, but will you let it keep going if there's progress in the talks before taking? [11:29] Well, I don't want to do that. And then, as expected by everyone in the world, including Iran's [11:38] dictatorial regime, Donald Trump's deadline evaporated. At 4.09 p.m. in a social media post [11:46] saying that he decided to extend the ceasefire. And now there is no deadline. Of course, this is [11:55] Donald Trump's war and Donald Trump's so-called negotiating style, so surely he will issue more [11:59] threats of war crimes and more deadlines that will surely once again be ignored by everyone, [12:04] including Donald Trump. No one violates Trump-issued deadlines more than Donald Trump. No one ignores [12:11] those deadlines more than Donald Trump. Imagine what Donald Trump would be saying tonight. Imagine [12:17] what the news media generally would be saying tonight if President Obama or President Biden [12:22] kept issuing deadlines to Iran and then kept caving on those deadlines. Imagine what the Fox Propaganda [12:31] Channel would be saying tonight. It's not working. Donald Trump's lies are not working. And the Trump [12:41] supporting lies of the Fox Propaganda Channel are not working. And no one personifies the collapse [12:49] of the Trump-Fox propaganda machine better than former Fox anchorman Tucker Carlson, who once had the [12:57] highest rated show on that network and has now turned against Donald Trump because of the Trump war [13:04] in Iran. Tucker Carlson, who went from publicly supporting Donald Trump while on television, while [13:11] privately hating him, to then publicly supporting him again, now says, we are implicated, meaning him [13:21] and all Trump voters. We're implicated in this for sure. Yes. It's not enough to say, well, I changed [13:31] my mind or like, oh, this is bad. I'm out. It's like in very small ways, but in real ways, you and me [13:39] and millions of people like us are the reason this is happening right now. Yes. So I do think it's like [13:46] a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. You know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be. [13:57] And so people who have been against Donald Trump every day of his political career are going to have to get [14:02] used to this. We're going to have to get used to Tucker Carlson's publicly, suddenly realizing the obvious about [14:10] Donald Trump, that he never should have been president. First Marjorie Taylor Greene, now Tucker Carlson. And there [14:16] will be more. And they will include people like Tucker Carlson who have said horribly racist things that [14:23] they will never retract, that should not be forgotten or forgiven. But what is true about [14:29] Tucker Carlson's switch of public allegiance and what is important about Tucker Carlson's switch [14:36] of public allegiance away from Donald Trump is that it is very, very bad for Donald Trump. And it represents [14:47] millions and millions of Trump supporters turning against Donald Trump in polling now, in polls that [14:56] show the job approval of Donald Trump is now a 67 percent disapproved. Two-thirds of Americans disapprove of [15:06] Donald Trump as president. And Donald Trump's war in Iran has 67 percent disapproval. Donald Trump's [15:14] handling of economic issues, 70 percent disapprove. And Donald Trump's management of the cost of living, [15:21] 76 percent disapprove. And that includes tens of millions of Trump voters who are now turning [15:27] on Donald Trump. They are finding their issue to turn against Donald Trump, whether it be the cost of living [15:33] or the Iran war. And so America is turning against Donald Trump tonight. Donald Trump finds new ways every day [15:42] to sink lower and lower in the polls. Like this morning on CNBC when he said, because his war in Iran [15:50] has turned out to be more difficult for the region than he expected, he actually wants to take money [15:56] from the American people, 76 percent of whom are struggling with the cost of living, and give that [16:03] American money to the richest people, not in America, but the richest people in the world who are not [16:10] Americans. Donald Trump wants to give money to the dictatorship running the United Arab Emirates. [16:17] The UAE asking the U.S. for some type of financial lifeline, I don't know if it's a [16:27] solvency problem, it's more of a liquidity problem. And I know we did, Secretary Besant did something [16:33] with Argentina that worked out. Is there some type of swap possible, currency swap with the UAE to help [16:41] if they need it? And do you think there would be backlash because it's such a wealth, or perceived to be [16:46] such a wealthy country? Is that under consideration? It is, but it's been a good country. It's been a good [16:52] ally of ours, and they're really led by incredible people. And yeah, I mean, I'm surprised because they [16:59] are really rich. So yeah, if I could help them, I would. Yes, he wants to give them money. He wants [17:07] to give the United Arab Emirates money, and he's surprised that he has to do that because they're [17:14] really rich. That's what he's saying. That's what he's telling the world this morning. Islam, a religion [17:21] Donald Trump mocks in tweets threatening Iran, is the official religion of the United Arab Emirates, [17:29] which does not believe in separation of church and state, to put it mildly. It is a country of [17:35] staggering wealth. And Donald Trump now wants American taxpayers to help out that dictatorship [17:44] because Iran took a few shots at them with drones during Donald Trump's war. Here's a Trump voter [17:52] today in Orlando, Florida, who is not getting any of the help that Donald Trump wants to give to the [17:58] richest people in the world, in the United Arab Emirates. What would you grade the economy right [18:06] now? Definitely a D. Is there an F up there? Yeah, F. That's it though. Why? It's bad. Like gas prices [18:18] are like the highest they've ever been. Rent is the highest. Buying a house is the highest it's ever [18:24] been. Everything's higher than normal. Like, but, and then minimum wage hasn't really budge much as [18:31] much as price has gone up. So that is a bad economy. Tucker Carlson was a Trump voter. He was a vocal [18:42] Trump supporter on the Fox channel while he privately hated Donald Trump, as we learned in a lawsuit against [18:49] Fox for lying about the Dominion voting systems for Donald Trump, a lawsuit Fox lost to the tune of [18:55] nearly a billion dollars. Text messages emerged in that lawsuit with Tucker Carlson saying, [19:01] we are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can't wait. I hate him [19:07] passionately. Tucker Carlson later became a public Trump supporter once again and campaigned with [19:14] Donald Trump supporting him for president very happily. And so we have no idea how long Tucker [19:21] Carlson's current feud with Donald Trump will continue. But the Trump voters who are now turning [19:27] against Donald Trump won't be as easy for Donald Trump and Republicans to win back as Tucker Carlson [19:34] might turn out to be. And those voters are on their way tonight to making our next guest the next [19:41] Speaker of the House of Representatives. Democratic leader of the House, Hakeem Jeffries, [19:47] will join us after this break. It's essential that there's a Democratic majority in the House [20:00] of Representatives come next January after a win in the midterms because we need a House of [20:06] Representatives that will be in the majority to conduct vigorous oversight of just about every [20:13] federal agency and department at this moment to ensure accountability and to hold this president [20:22] and his administration accountable to the people, to our Constitution and to our country. [20:28] That was Virginia's governor moments ago here in her first interview after Virginia voters voted tonight [20:37] to redistrict congressional seats in Virginia in such a way that Democrats could pick up as many as [20:45] four Democratic seats in the state of Virginia for the House of Representatives. [20:49] President Obama has posted his congratulations to Virginia tonight saying congratulations Virginia, [20:56] Republicans are trying to tilt the midterm elections in their favor, but they haven't done it yet. [21:02] Thanks for showing up, showing us what it looks like to stand up for our democracy and fight back. [21:09] This morning on CNBC, Donald Trump attacked our next guest with Donald Trump's trademark ugly, [21:19] casual racism and his rank ignorance of the Constitution and what treason means. [21:27] Here is the disgusting stupidity and hatred spewed by Donald Trump this morning. [21:33] We've done a great job and I don't want to be rushed by people that are really treasonous as far as I'm [21:40] concerned with her. And it's just, you know, I watch this low IQ guy, Hakeem Jeffries, he's a totally low IQ person [21:46] and he's always ranting and raving, oh, this war is so terrible. [21:52] And joining us now is House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. [21:56] Mr. Leader, I want to give you an opportunity to respond to what Donald Trump said about you this morning. [22:03] Well, it's an extraordinary insult, but he continues to repeat it. [22:06] And what's so ironic is that Donald Trump is clearly the dumbest person ever to sit at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. [22:13] But most importantly, Lawrence, this guy and Republicans have completely and totally failed America. [22:21] They failed on the economy, failed on health care, failed on immigration enforcement. [22:25] And now they've gotten us into a reckless and costly war of choice where more than a dozen Americans, brave heroes, [22:33] have already lost their lives. Over 400 are seriously injured. [22:37] And we're wasting billions of dollars dropping bombs in the Middle East. [22:42] And these guys won't spend a dime to actually make life more affordable for the American people. [22:47] What do you think the vote in Virginia means tonight to the possibility of you becoming the next Speaker of the House? [22:54] Well, it's a big victory for the people of Virginia, a big victory for America and a big victory for democracy. [23:02] And let me first just thank Governor Abigail Spanberger, Speaker Don Scott, the members of the Virginia General Assembly, [23:10] the congressional delegation, certainly President Barack Obama. [23:13] It was an all-hands-on-deck effort, and I'm so thankful for what has transpired. [23:21] The Republicans, ordered by Donald Trump all across the country, were trying to gerrymander the national congressional map [23:28] as part of their scheme to rig the midterm elections. [23:32] And they thought that Democrats were going to step back. [23:36] We made clear from the very beginning that we were going to fight back. [23:39] We did it in Texas. We did it in California. [23:41] We've done it in Utah. We've pushed them back in Ohio. [23:43] We stopped them in New Hampshire, stopped them in Nebraska, stopped them in Kansas, stopped them in Indiana. [23:49] Big win today in Virginia. [23:51] And we're going to keep the pressure on the extremists because we're committed to ensuring [23:55] that there's a free and fair election in November. [24:00] Did you agree with the governor? [24:02] Abigail Spanberger has just come from the House of Representatives, of course, as you know, to the governorship. [24:06] And she was describing to us the importance, in her view, of the Democrats regaining control [24:12] of the House during this Trump presidency. [24:16] What is your view of what changes for Donald Trump when the Democrats take over the House next year, if they do? [24:24] Well, we're going to focus on driving down the high cost of living. [24:27] We understand that life has become far too expensive in the United States of America. [24:32] Donald Trump promised to lower costs on day one. [24:34] Costs haven't gone down. They've gone up. [24:36] And far too many people in this country, working class folks, middle class folks, everyday Americans, [24:41] they're struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, can't thrive and can barely survive. [24:46] And this reckless war of choice is making life even more expensive. [24:50] Gas prices through the roof and food prices are heading in the wrong direction as well. [24:55] We will need to fix our broken health care system that Republicans are detonating in real time [25:02] and repair the damage that has been done and bring to the American people the type of system [25:10] that actually allows all Americans to afford to see a doctor when they need one. [25:16] And we also have to combat this corruption and deal with the fact that the Trump cartel, [25:22] this administration clearly is the most corrupt in American history. [25:26] And there's going to be accountability as it relates to what the extremists are doing [25:32] to the American people and the fact that far too many of them are in government service right now [25:40] to enrich themselves, their family members and their donors, [25:44] as opposed to making life better for the American people. [25:47] The final point you made about the corruption that is just reeking from Trump world in Washington, [25:55] that issue most observers believe was a crucial issue in the elections we just saw in Turkey [26:02] where the new government, I'm sorry, in Hungary, [26:08] where the new government has promised an investigation of everything that has preceded it. [26:12] Is that something that you would be promising the American people, [26:16] that the Trump corruption in Washington and around the country [26:21] will be an investigative priority for the House of Representatives? [26:28] Well, listen, it's a priority right now. [26:30] We're already running many of these extremists out of town. [26:33] Pam Bondi is gone. [26:34] Kristi Noem is gone. [26:36] We're going to make sure that Pete Hegseth and Kash Patel are on their way out the door as well. [26:41] These are people who should have never been confirmed by Senate Republicans. [26:45] Shame on them for putting these unqualified individuals [26:49] into these positions of great significance and sensitivity. [26:54] But certainly, Lawrence, as we cross over into the majority, [26:59] if the American people were to entrust us with that great responsibility, [27:04] we're going to make sure we're pushing an agenda [27:06] that lowers the cost of living, the affordability side of things, [27:11] while at the same period of time, we know that we have to bring accountability. [27:15] It was James Madison who said that Congress, at its best, [27:18] should be a rival to the executive branch. [27:22] And so we take that to mean a check and balance [27:26] on an out-of-control Trump administration. [27:28] Donald Trump has said publicly that he's afraid that you will impeach him [27:34] if Democrats get control of the House of Representatives. [27:38] Should he be afraid of impeachment? [27:41] Well, we haven't ruled anything in and we haven't ruled anything out. [27:45] But Donald Trump should start conducting himself like a president [27:48] who complies with the law as opposed to someone who continues to abuse power [27:54] and unleashes, for instance, the Department of Justice [27:56] to target people who he perceived to be his political adversaries. [28:02] And so we're going to have to look at all of these things. [28:06] But we also understand, and we've been winning elections all across the country [28:10] since January of 2025 through the most recent elections [28:15] that we've seen take place this month all across the land. [28:19] And the common theme is that the American people want us as Democrats [28:23] to solve the problems that Donald Trump has ignored. [28:27] And so that will remain a top priority. [28:30] America is clearly far too expensive. [28:32] And we've got to do something about it [28:35] so we can build a country of the people, by the people, and for the people, [28:39] as opposed to what the Trump administration, the Trump cartel has done, [28:42] which is really run a government of the billionaires, [28:45] by the billionaires, and for the billionaires. [28:47] If Donald Trump's war is still ongoing in Iran, [28:52] and Donald Trump has said today he doesn't think it's been going on for very long at all, [28:57] so going on into next year doesn't seem like something that he would think was a very long war. [29:02] If that war is still going on in January of next year, [29:06] would you bring a War Powers vote in the House to stop that war? [29:14] Yes, we will continue to advance War Powers resolutions. [29:17] And, of course, Lawrence, we've now been able to bring them twice. [29:20] And because War Powers resolutions are privileged, [29:24] we do have the opportunity, even in the minority, [29:27] to force votes so that members of the House can declare up or down [29:32] whether they support Donald Trump's reckless and costly war of choice [29:37] or whether they oppose it. [29:39] And House Democrats are going to continue to strongly oppose it. [29:41] And you can expect that in the near future, [29:44] you will see an additional War Powers resolution brought to the floor. [29:48] And all we need are two additional Republicans to join us, [29:53] and we can do what we need to do in the House [29:55] to end this reckless war of choice [29:57] and then put the pressure on the Senate to do the same. [30:01] Democratic Leader of the House, Hakeem Jeffries, [30:04] thank you very much for joining our coverage tonight. [30:08] Thank you. [30:08] Thank you. [30:10] And when we come back, [30:11] Virginia Congressman James Walkinshaw [30:13] will join us in our continuing coverage [30:16] of the big win for democracy in Virginia tonight [30:20] and other issues. [30:30] Here is Donald Trump's choice [30:32] to be the next chair of the Federal Reserve [30:35] in his confirmation hearing today. [30:37] Are you refusing to tell us [30:41] if you have investments, for example, [30:45] in vehicles set up to advance Jeffrey Epstein? [30:49] Is that what you're telling us? [30:50] You just won't tell us? [30:51] Senator, what I'm telling you [30:53] is that those assets that you represent [30:55] at Juggernaut will be sold if I'm confirmed. [31:00] Joining us now is Democratic Congressman [31:02] James Walkinshaw of Virginia. [31:04] He's a member of the House Oversight Committee [31:05] and Homeland Security Committee. [31:08] And, Congressman, is this the kind of thing [31:11] that Virginia voters had in mind tonight? [31:15] We just heard Leader Jeffries talk about [31:18] what he calls the Trump cartel, [31:20] which is just this stink of corruption [31:23] around Trump world in Washington, D.C.? [31:26] I think absolutely. [31:28] The Trump cartel, the Mar-a-Lago mafia, [31:31] whatever term you want to use for them, [31:33] Virginians are asking themselves, [31:36] why did I lose my federal job? [31:38] Why was my small business shut down [31:40] by the Trump administration? [31:42] Why do I no longer have health care coverage? [31:45] While these guys are raking it in [31:47] and got their hands in every cookie jar [31:48] that they can find [31:50] and making themselves wealthier [31:51] and wealthier and wealthier? [31:53] And, you know, I spent a lot of time [31:54] working on the Epstein-Files issue. [31:57] I think that has touched a nerve [31:58] with the American people [32:00] because it feels like [32:01] there's a different set of rules [32:03] for the wealthy and the well-connected, [32:05] especially if you're wealthy [32:05] and well-connected to Donald Trump. [32:08] I think Virginia voters were reacting [32:10] to all of that and more today. [32:11] The Democrats on the Oversight Committee [32:15] have, to my mind, [32:17] from where I'm sitting, [32:18] done a remarkable job [32:20] of pushing forward [32:22] on an investigation [32:22] that is technically controlled [32:25] by the Republican chairman [32:26] and by the Republican majority [32:27] on that committee, [32:28] but you've managed to push through [32:31] a very significant amount [32:32] of resistance there. [32:34] If the Democrats have control [32:36] of that committee [32:37] and they don't have to push past [32:39] Republican resistance [32:40] in order to get subpoenas issued [32:43] and things like that, [32:44] how does that change the investigation [32:46] of the Epstein-Files [32:48] and all of the possible involvements [32:52] in the Trump administration? [32:55] Well, you're absolutely right, Lawrence. [32:56] You know, we have a committee [32:57] filled with fighters [32:59] on the Democratic side, [33:00] on the Oversight Committee, [33:01] who have been banging away [33:03] at this for a long time [33:05] and made a lot of progress. [33:06] But if we control the committee [33:08] and if Robert Garcia holds that gavel, [33:12] we will be able to 10x [33:13] or 100x the speed [33:16] of this investigation. [33:17] We'll be able to get real answers [33:19] to questions around [33:21] Jeffrey Epstein's finances, right, [33:23] and subpoenas of all of the banks [33:25] and financial institutions [33:26] that he was involved in. [33:28] We will get not just Pam Bondi, [33:30] but other figures [33:32] in the Justice Department [33:33] involved in evading the law [33:35] and releasing the files [33:37] to sit down and answer questions [33:39] under oath, under subpoena. [33:41] All of those things will happen. [33:42] You know, I'm fascinated [33:44] by this vote in Virginia [33:46] because, really, [33:47] I've never seen anything like it [33:48] because no one has seen [33:50] anything like it. [33:50] Really, in our history, [33:52] a president tries a gerrymander [33:55] conspiracy with the state of Texas. [33:57] That's responded to [33:59] by governors in California [34:01] and Virginia. [34:01] By going to their voters [34:03] and getting their voters [34:05] to join them [34:07] in making the decision [34:09] to counter [34:10] what the Republican president [34:11] is trying to do, [34:13] this sounds like [34:14] an extremely complicated thing [34:16] to explain to voters [34:18] as a reason to come out [34:20] and vote [34:20] in something that they [34:22] weren't scheduled to do [34:23] as voters. [34:25] It's hard enough, [34:26] it seems to me, [34:28] getting voters motivated [34:29] in a normal circumstance. [34:31] It seems really remarkable to me [34:34] that this motivation [34:35] was there in Virginia. [34:37] What does it tell you [34:38] about the motivation [34:40] you would expect to see [34:41] in November in voters? [34:45] Well, you're absolutely right. [34:46] And, you know, [34:47] tonight's result [34:48] wasn't just about [34:49] redrawing the lines on a map. [34:52] It was about Virginia voters [34:53] drawing a line, [34:54] a line in the sand, [34:56] and saying, [34:56] enough is enough. [34:58] You know, [34:58] this is an administration [34:59] that has attacked [35:00] Virginia and Virginia jobs [35:03] without end, [35:04] slashing tens of thousands [35:06] of federal workers, [35:08] shutting down small businesses, [35:10] attacking us time and time again. [35:11] And Virginia voters said, [35:12] enough, [35:13] we're not going to let you [35:13] rig the midterm elections [35:15] on top of all the damage [35:16] you've already done [35:17] in our commonwealth. [35:18] And I think that energy exists [35:20] not just in Virginia, [35:22] but across the country. [35:23] Folks are fed up. [35:24] They're fed up with the corruption [35:25] and fed up with the fact [35:27] that while Trump [35:27] is building golden ball rooms [35:29] and making himself wealthier, [35:31] they're struggling [35:32] to put food on the table [35:33] to feed their families [35:34] and afford their [35:35] health insurance premiums. [35:36] I think we'll see [35:37] similar energy [35:38] around the country [35:39] in November, [35:40] but Virginia's [35:40] going to lead the way. [35:42] Congressman James Walkinshaw, [35:43] thank you very much [35:44] for joining our coverage tonight. [35:46] Thanks, Lawrence. [35:48] And today, [35:49] Donald Trump said [35:50] he is sad. [35:51] That's the word he used. [35:53] Sad about having to [35:55] pay back [35:56] the illegal tariffs [35:58] that he imposed [36:00] that he imposed on Americans [36:00] because only Americans [36:02] paid those tariffs. [36:03] He's very sad [36:04] that he now [36:05] has to pay back [36:07] that money. [36:08] One of the people [36:08] he owes that money to [36:10] is going to join us next. [36:20] This morning on CNBC, [36:21] Donald Trump said [36:22] he hates having to pay back [36:24] the tariff money [36:25] that he illegally took [36:27] from Americans. [36:30] If they had common sense, [36:32] we wouldn't have to be paying back [36:33] almost $200 billion [36:34] in tariffs so stupidly. [36:38] In many cases, [36:40] the enemy, [36:41] the enemy [36:41] is getting this money. [36:43] The people that have hated [36:44] the United States [36:45] were giving them checks [36:46] for billions of dollars. [36:47] It's so sad to see. [36:50] And there's Donald Trump [36:51] saying it's so sad [36:52] that the Supreme Court [36:53] did not let him [36:54] get away with [36:55] illegally imposing tariffs [36:57] on Americans [36:58] and American companies [36:59] importing goods [37:00] from other countries. [37:00] Donald Trump lied [37:01] about his tariffs [37:02] once again today [37:03] when he said [37:03] the enemy is getting [37:04] this money, [37:05] this refund money. [37:07] That's a pure Trumpian lie [37:08] as every faithful viewer [37:10] of this program [37:11] already knows. [37:12] Tariffs are only paid [37:13] by Americans, [37:15] Trump tariffs, [37:16] only paid by Americans [37:18] and American companies [37:19] here in the United States [37:21] only when the goods arrive [37:23] in the United States. [37:25] No foreign country [37:26] has ever paid a tariff [37:28] imposed by another [37:30] foreign country. [37:32] Neil Katyal, [37:32] joined us [37:34] on this program [37:34] last night [37:35] on the day [37:35] when the Trump administration [37:36] was forced [37:38] by federal judge [37:39] Richard Eaton [37:39] to begin the process [37:41] of refunding [37:42] the Trump tariffs. [37:45] It is the largest [37:46] refund action [37:47] in the history [37:48] of this country [37:49] and it can't come [37:50] a moment too soon [37:52] because, Lawrence, [37:52] it's not China. [37:54] It's people like my client, [37:55] small businesses [37:56] who had to let people go [37:58] and, you know, [37:59] they couldn't buy equipment. [38:00] They had to forego it. [38:01] Many of them went bankrupt [38:02] because of these tariffs [38:04] and we won [38:05] and we're getting [38:06] the refunds back [38:07] but these folks [38:08] can't get their lives back. [38:10] There's no ability [38:11] for small businesses [38:12] that went out of business [38:13] to now come back in. [38:16] Joining us now [38:17] is one of Neil Katyal's clients [38:18] in the Trump tariff case, [38:20] Rick Waldenberg, [38:21] CEO of Learning Resources, [38:23] which makes award-winning [38:25] educational toys. [38:26] Rick, thanks for joining [38:27] us again tonight. [38:28] Donald Trump is very sad [38:30] that he has to pay you back [38:32] the money that he illegally [38:34] took from you. [38:35] How are you feeling about it? [38:38] Honey, I'm not feeling that sad. [38:39] We filed the claims [38:41] for over $10 million. [38:42] It's our money [38:43] and we're looking forward [38:44] to getting it back [38:45] with interest. [38:47] And how did the process go? [38:49] Judge Eaton ordered them [38:50] to start it yesterday. [38:52] There's been some reports [38:53] of the new system, [38:55] which is understandable, [38:56] just like Obamacare's [38:58] original health care portal. [39:00] The portal was a little shaky. [39:02] Is it working now? [39:04] I believe it is. [39:05] You know, given the magnitude [39:08] of the challenge that they faced, [39:09] there were 53 million entries [39:11] that paid IEPA Tariffs. [39:13] Of course, everyone was standing [39:15] right next to the door [39:16] ready to press the button [39:17] as soon as they could [39:18] because this was well in excess [39:20] of $100 billion of refunds [39:22] that people were seeking. [39:23] So not surprising [39:25] that the system crashed briefly, [39:27] but I think they did [39:28] a really good job. [39:29] They certainly were very conscientious [39:30] in their effort [39:31] to make this possible. [39:33] And all in all, [39:34] I think it was a success so far. [39:37] What does it feel like to you? [39:39] You're there in business [39:40] and business is always [39:42] a struggle at any level. [39:44] Suddenly you get hit [39:44] with these tariffs. [39:46] You know the Constitution [39:47] says the president can't do that. [39:49] And you decide to go to court [39:52] and you end up going all the way [39:55] to the Supreme Court [39:57] with Neil Katyal. [39:58] You win. [39:59] You reaffirm [40:01] the Constitution's power here. [40:04] And now it also involves [40:05] a refund for your business. [40:07] How does all of that feel? [40:09] How does making history feel? [40:12] Oh, that's the thing [40:14] that's overwhelming [40:15] is like somehow [40:16] how we are part of history now. [40:20] To me, this is a demonstration [40:21] of the American system. [40:22] This is how it's supposed to work. [40:24] In a rule of law system, [40:26] you're allowed to raise your hands [40:28] as a citizen and say, [40:29] I think the law is not [40:30] being applied correctly. [40:32] Our goal was to get [40:33] the Supreme Court [40:34] as fast as we possibly could. [40:36] And in this case, [40:37] we were right. [40:38] And as you point out, [40:39] it's we, the importers, [40:41] who've been paying the tariffs. [40:42] It's we who borrow the money [40:44] from banks to pay the tariffs. [40:46] And it's we who get the money back. [40:49] We're excited about that. [40:50] And I'm glad to stand [40:52] on the right side of history [40:53] on this one. [40:55] Rick Waldenberg, [40:56] thank you very much [40:57] for joining us tonight. [40:58] Thank you very much [41:00] for bringing the case [41:01] to support the Constitution [41:03] against Donald Trump. [41:05] Thank you very much. [41:07] Thank you. [41:08] We'll be right back. [41:14] Rick Waldenberg, [41:15] who made history [41:16] by beating Donald Trump [41:17] in the United States Supreme Court, [41:19] gets tonight's last word.