'Stick to podcasting': Kash Patel GRILLED by Democrats over UNEXPLAINED absences, polygraph paranoia

[0:00] Hi there, everyone. It's 4 o'clock in New York. A stark reminder that we do not live in normal [0:04] times up on Capitol Hill today. And what would have just been a normal, routine budget hearing [0:10] questioning quickly focused in on the flurry of reported controversies FBI Director Cash [0:16] Patel has created for himself. Since we are not dealing with a normal or routine head of the [0:22] nation's top law enforcement agency, we want to show you the very first line of questioning Cash [0:27] Patel face from Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen. I really don't care about your personal life so [0:34] long as you are able to perform your public and official responsibilities, which are awesome [0:41] responsibilities. Multiple reports, including reporting by The Atlantic, have alleged episodes [0:48] of excessive drinking, unexplained absences, and behavior that concern current and former FBI and [0:54] DOJ officials. You have publicly denied those allegations and filed a defamation lawsuit. So [1:00] today, as you testify before Congress, is it your testimony that those allegations are categorically [1:07] false? Unequivocally categorically false. So there have been no occasions during your tenure when FBI [1:12] personnel were unable to promptly reach you? Absolutely not. You can ask my entire workforce. [1:17] They hear from me at every single hour of the day, as do these great gentlemen here, as do the men and [1:22] women of the interagency in state and local law enforcement in the White House. And so there have [1:26] been no occasions when your security detail had difficulty waking or locating you. Is that right? [1:31] Nope. It's a total farce. I don't even know where you get this stuff, but it doesn't make it credible [1:34] because you say so. I'm not saying it, Director Patel. It's been written and documented. You are [1:41] literally saying it. No, I'm saying that these are reports, Director Patel. You running a $7,000 bar tab at the [1:47] lobby bar has been filed by your own office to drink during the day. That's you. This is an ultimate [1:54] example of hypocrisy. I will not be tarnished by baseless allegations or fraudulent statements from [1:59] the media. The fact that you mentioned that indicates you don't know what you are talking about. [2:09] Extraordinary, extraordinary, even by today's Trumpian reorganizing of what's normal. [2:17] As a reminder of how the FBI would act under ordinary circumstances under normal times, [2:24] take a listen to Donald Trump's first director of the FBI, Jim Comey. He was on this program yesterday [2:29] and we asked him about those branded bottles of bourbon that Kash Patel is reportedly distributing. [2:37] What is Kash Patel's deal? He just was reported to have made Kash Patel with the S as a dollar sign [2:45] and his name is on an FBI emblazoned bottle of bourbon. Did you have bourbon? [2:51] I did not. [2:52] No? This is it. [2:53] Nor a dollar sign in my name. [2:55] This is what Kash Patel gives out on behalf of America's premier law enforcement agency. What [3:02] is that? What signal does that send? [3:05] I don't remember a lot from law school, but there was an expression, [3:08] res ipsa loquator, meaning the thing speaks for itself. And so the thing speaks for itself. [3:14] Senator Van Hollen was not the only lawmaker to bring up all of the alleged chaos at the FBI. [3:21] Here is Senator Patty Murray. [3:25] We need somebody at this agency who's focused on solving criminal cases, [3:30] not passing out branded bourbon or jetting around the globe. Your job is to be reachable. [3:36] And I know Senator Van Hollen asked you about this, but I got to say, [3:40] if you want to pass out liquor or pop bottles in a locker room, stick to podcasting, leave law in [3:46] order to people who really do care about justice and appearances. [3:49] The hearing is still happening, and we will dip into it and return to it if questioning there [3:57] justifies that or if any news is made. FBI Director Kash Patel confronted about recent [4:03] reports about the chaos he has created on his watch. It's where we begin today with senior [4:08] investigative reporter Carol Lennig. Also joining us, Asha Rangappa. She's a former special agent at [4:13] the FBI, now a senior lecturer at Yale School of Global Affairs. And with me here at the table, [4:18] legal analyst Christy Greenberg. She's a former criminal division deputy chief at SDNY [4:23] and the host of the YouTube show Courtside. Carol Lynn, let me start with you on Kash Patel [4:30] being confronted with some of the recent news accounts about him. Your thoughts? [4:35] No, I thought it was interesting for him. Interesting is probably a Minnesota kind of [4:40] euphemism, Midwestern euphemism. Interesting way for him to start to claim that Chris Van [4:46] Holland has a large daytime bar bill in answer to the question about whether or not you have ever [4:53] had to be rousted by FBI agents as a result of alcohol-fueled nights or been unreachable as a [5:00] result of this. It really did said it was false, but didn't really directly go at it except to go [5:06] after the senator. There have been many times, Nicole, that my colleague and I, Ken Delaney, [5:13] have written about activities by Kash Patel that have disturbed and worried FBI agents. [5:19] And in almost every case, the FBI, via the director or the spokesperson, have denied these [5:26] things as absolutely false. And I watched Patel deny all these things as absolutely false that I [5:33] personally know to be true, for example, that at his direction, numerous agents were polygraphed who [5:40] had been on his security detail. Those both who had been and are currently on his security detail [5:47] were being ordered to being polygraphed last week. He said that wasn't true. And I know from our sourcing [5:54] and other materials that it is. So it worries me to see this kind of pushback. But I understand from [6:03] the sources we have inside the FBI and the Justice Department, that Kash Patel is really trying to put [6:10] down all of this reporting and squelch it because his job is really on the line. [6:15] Let me just make sure I understand what you're saying. Did he lie before Congress today? [6:22] You know, I would like to pause before I say that big word, if you don't mind. But I would say that [6:29] I know it to be true, that at his direction, agents were polygraphed. And though I don't have the tape in [6:36] front of me, I watched him today say that it was not true, that these polygraphs were ordered by him. [6:45] Asha, let me bring you in on this. The first thing I thought when I saw that first exchange was, [6:51] I thought about all the pardon reporting that we have, and that these people are operating in a way [6:57] that is very clearly in response to the literal distribution of pardons, that that culture seems to have [7:06] seeped into the things that we see that, you know, used to be able to have some confidence that what was [7:13] happening before Congress was, you know, sworn testimony. They take an oath. And I had the initial reaction [7:20] that he was denying things that were sourced in stories with Carol and Ken's awesome number of [7:29] sources with their decades, combined decades of relationships and the agencies they cover, [7:36] the Atlantic's, you know, dozens of sources. And to come out and categorically basically smear all that [7:46] reporting as false, felt like a new chapter in his leadership at the FBI. What did you think? [7:55] Well, Nicole, the I'm rubber, you're glue defense is never really a great defense, [8:02] but it's unbecoming, I think, for the director of the FBI. You know, the FBI should be sticking [8:10] straight to the facts, answering straightforwardly. We did not see that. And I think to your point, [8:15] Nicole, what we're seeing, I think, is a manifestation of a culture of impunity, [8:20] because really, what is the deterrent for him? Even if he were to not tell the truth under oath, [8:28] what enforcement is there? I think we can expect that all of these people are going to have [8:33] pardons on their way out the door. I think that's what you're getting at. So there's no real [8:38] incentive here. And, you know, that's the culture that's been built. And there's also a personalist [8:44] culture. I just want to add this, you know, in terms of the signature bourbon bottles, et cetera. [8:50] I think what we're seeing with these cabinet officials is sort of what we see with Trump, [8:54] which is there's no ability to see that what the organization they're running is separate from [9:01] themselves. It is them. You know, for Kash Patel, he is the bureau. And so, you know, [9:08] he slaps his name on everything, challenge coins, bourbon bottles. [9:12] I have to tell you, there's a lot of merch that's FBI, you know, branded. I've never seen [9:17] anything with an FBI director on it, with the exception maybe of J. Edgar Hoover. But, [9:22] you know, he's Hoover. So I think this is just a whole culture that we're seeing manifest right now. [9:29] Let me show all of you two pieces of sound. This is Kash Patel's response to a question about morale. [9:37] And then this is Brian Driscoll reacting to the political purges that happened on Kash Patel's [9:43] watch. How's your morale at the FBI? Morale has never been better. When I go across the country [9:49] and I talk to the line agents and the intelligence analysts and professional staff, [9:53] I travel around the country. I talk to our state and local partners. They tell me one thing [9:56] resoundingly, we're finally going to do the work that we were asked to do with the resources that [10:00] we needed to get the job done. And that's what this administration is focused on. [10:04] There was never any specific allegations or accusations coming from Beauvais that, [10:12] OK, these people on this list committed some kind of legal or policy violation. [10:19] In the lawsuit, it says that Beauvais told you that an allegation of misconduct was not necessary [10:26] for him to terminate FBI personnel if he subjectively felt a loss of confidence in their ability to carry [10:33] on the president's agenda. When that request was made, we take it in. OK, tell me more. Why? [10:40] Well, you know, cultural rot in the FBI. That was a phrase they use, cultural rot. [10:45] Yes. All of these other uninformed and wrong opinions. [10:51] So everything that I have read about Brian Driscoll's supports and suggests that he is sort of an agent's [10:58] agent. I think one of the attempts he made publicly to try to save his job and protect those around him, [11:03] which seems to be the motivating factor for most of the agents to protect people under them and around [11:09] them, was this very sort of Trump-friendly list of top 10 bad guys they caught. [11:15] This is someone who tried to stay, tried to hold the line and left and described basically bogus [11:22] predicates for the political purges of agents who worked on the cases into Donald Trump. [11:28] Asha, what is the true answer to the question, how's the morale at the FBI? [11:35] Well, Carol will have more sources than I do, but some of the words that the people that I know [11:40] who are still there are using are clown show, utter chaos. And I think the morale is very low. [11:50] I mean, this is a conservative small-c organization. I think they thrive on sort of being a very steady ship. [11:55] And, you know, that's just not what it's been under Patel's watch. [12:00] And, you know, what's the type of picture? [12:06] You know, Roman sandwich. [12:07] We