Sen. Mark Kelly, Rep. Mike Turner and more — "Face the Nation" Full Broadcast - March 2, 2025

[0:01] I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington, and this week on Face the Nation, [0:05] the latest on the fallout following Friday's Oval Office brawl. [0:09] And Americans say they want more action from the Trump administration when it comes to fighting [0:13] inflation. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards. [0:19] Right now, you don't have the cards. It was a debacle seen and heard around the world, [0:24] as the meeting, meant to solidify an alliance between the U.S. and Ukraine, [0:29] melted down into a shouting match featuring President Trump and Vice President Vance [0:33] versus Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. U.S. and Ukrainian officials are now in full [0:40] damage control mode, with European leaders racing to bring both sides back together [0:46] and move towards a resolution to the war in Ukraine. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant crafted [0:51] the agreement with Ukraine that fell apart during that meeting. We'll talk to him about that, [0:56] as well as the administration's plans to help the economy. We'll also talk with Arizona Democratic [1:02] Senator Mark Kelly and two Republican members of Congress, Ohio's Mike Turner and Michigan's John [1:08] James. And just before President Trump's first formal address to Congress, how do Americans think [1:14] he's doing when it comes to tackling their priorities? It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. [1:21] Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. We'll get to the ramifications of that meeting in the Oval [1:30] office in a moment. But we want to begin with the issues that are top of mind for most Americans, [1:35] inflation and the economy. They may be at the top of their priority list for the new administration, [1:40] but we are seeing a disconnect. When asked what they think the administration is prioritizing, [1:46] Americans see inflation and the economy taking a back seat to the border, the federal workforce, [1:51] tariffs and more. In fact, according to our CBS News poll, although people do approve of him on some of [1:58] those other issues, there is a 50 point gap between people who say the president should make inflation [2:03] a priority and those who say he is. We want to welcome to the program Treasury Secretary Scott [2:09] Besant. Good morning to you, Mr. Treasury Secretary. Morning, Margaret. So let's dig in on this because [2:15] it seems there's a bit of a perception gap there. Our polling also shows at least half the country [2:20] reports concern about paying for food and groceries and housing. They continue to call the economy bad, [2:26] even more so than last month. And 49 percent told us the economy is getting worse. When can Americans [2:33] expect to experience the benefits that President Trump said would be coming in day one? [2:38] Yeah, well, you know, Margaret, what I find interesting is for the past year and a half and [2:42] during the campaign, most of the media said, oh, the economy is great. It's just a vibe session. [2:47] Now that President Trump's in office, there's an economic problem. And I'll tell you what the problem was. [2:52] We were pretty straightforward on this program, sir. Well, I haven't seen this program, but [2:57] the in general, this idea that working class Americans didn't know what they were talking [3:02] about. They didn't know their lived experience. They didn't know what their pocketbooks were feeling. [3:06] And I'll tell you, President Trump was elected. One of the reasons was the affordability crisis, [3:12] and we are setting about doing that. Number one. [3:14] So after four years, four years of disastrous policies, they were running these gigantic deficits [3:22] that the that led to the affordability problem, massive government regulation. So what we had was [3:31] a demand shock from the government spending that was met by supply constraints with over regulation. [3:40] So we are in the process of deregulating, which will free the supply side. And we are cutting back [3:46] the government spending. It took four years to get us here. President Trump spent in office five weeks. [3:52] And I can tell you, we're working every day. What I will point out, interest rates, the 10 year bond, [3:58] which I am focused on, have been down every week since President Trump was president. Mortgage rates [4:04] have been down every week. So that's a pretty good start. I hear you that sometimes the data lags [4:13] reality. But when we are talking about people's perceptions of the economy, it's just how they're [4:18] feeling right now. We see in our polling 52 percent of Americans say Trump's policies are making grocery [4:25] prices go up. They explicitly said that on this bar chart you see there. So it's an experience and a [4:31] perception issue. When does that shift? When do we see the benefits of the planning you say is underway? [4:37] I think President Trump said that he'll own the economy in six or 12 months. But I can tell you [4:45] that we are working to get these prices down every day. But it took four years to get us here. And [4:52] we've had five weeks. So interest rates are down. That's a very good start toward housing affordability, [5:00] toward auto affordability. And we are tackling this at Treasury. We are going to appoint an [5:08] affordability czar. We are going to have an affordability council. We are laser focused on [5:13] this. What does that mean? What's an affordability czar? Someone who picks the five or eight areas [5:21] where this administration can make a big difference for working class Americans. [5:26] Okay. Well, one of the things that we hear the president talk about a lot is the plan to use [5:32] tariffs. I know this falls under the purview of commerce and the trade rep, but you have spoken [5:38] a bit about it before. If the president does roll out the 10 percent tariffs that he says are coming [5:43] on China this week, the 25 percent on Canada and Mexico, how much do you think they will impact what [5:51] Americans experience? The Peterson Institute says it will cost households an additional $1,200 a year. [5:58] Look, a couple of things. I respect my friends at the Peterson Institute. I think they're a bit [6:04] alarmist. I think a lot of their supporters are anti-tariff, so they take an anti-tariff position. [6:10] And look, we have the experience of President Trump's first term where the tariffs did not affect prices. [6:19] And it's a holistic approach that there will be tariffs, there will be cuts in regulation, [6:26] there will be cheaper energy. So I would expect that very quickly we will be down to the Fed's 2 percent [6:32] target. So I'm expecting inflation to continue dropping over the year. [6:38] So should we expect these tariffs to come March 4th? [6:41] Well, there's a series of tariffs. There's March 4th and then there are the big, [6:46] the there's the big tariff program that's going to be outlined on April 2nd by Commerce and USTR. [6:55] And that's the president's notion of reciprocal tariffs. And that's going to be very path dependent. [7:01] It's we are going to show what are other countries' tariffs on specific goods? What are non-tariff [7:07] barriers? What are the currency manipulation? What is manipulation of financing or labor manipulation? [7:15] And what are these horrendous fines that the European Union's putting on our tech companies? [7:21] And we are going to evaluate that and give them an opportunity to remedy that. So we could either see [7:29] a ratcheting up in tariffs or if our trading partners want to remedy what has been unfair trade, [7:36] then we could see the tariffs come off. So it's going to be path dependent. [7:39] And that's Europe in April mainly? [7:41] Well, that's across the world. [7:44] Okay. So when you say that Peterson is institutes to alarmist with $1,200 a year on the average household, [7:51] what's the cost of the household? You think it's zero? [7:54] Well, we don't know yet because it's path dependent. But what I can tell you is that I'm not worried [8:00] about China. China is going to China will pay for the China tariffs because their business model [8:05] is exporting their way out of this deflation. They are the most imbalanced, unbalanced economy in modern [8:11] times. And the idea that because of a tariff that they would lower their production is wrong. They are going [8:20] to continue flooding the market. They will eat this price decrease. They will eat any tariffs that go on. [8:26] So I saw you say on Bloomberg recently that Mexico has offered to match the U.S. tariffs on China [8:34] and that you would like for the Canadians to do so as well. You described it as a fortress in North America. [8:39] Is that in the works? [8:40] I don't know yet. We'll see. The Mexican leadership has offered to do that. [8:47] We haven't heard from the Canadians, but I think that would be a very good start. [8:52] By Tuesday potentially to offset the potential punishment on them? [8:57] By Tuesday or maybe the tariff wall goes up and then we see what happens from there. But I can tell you [9:05] that under the cover of COVID, China dramatically increased their export capacity and they are [9:11] trying to export their way to prosperity. They are in an economic crisis. They have gigantic deflation [9:18] and it's unacceptable for them to export that to the rest of the world. And I think North America would [9:24] be a very good start for pushing back against this unfair trade policy. [9:30] Well, that would be a significant development. [9:33] Very significant. [9:34] Which would avoid tariffs that are supposed to go out on Tuesday. [9:38] We'll see. [9:39] Okay. We'll be watching that space. I want to ask you about Ukraine. You were in that Oval Office [9:44] meeting that went sideways on Friday. President Zelensky was told to leave the White House before he [9:52] signed the minerals agreement that I know you have been working on. He said yesterday, though, he is ready [9:57] to sign it. He called it the first step towards security guarantees. It's not enough. We need more [10:02] than just that. A ceasefire without security guarantees is dangerous for Ukraine. [10:07] Is the deal still on the table or has President Trump instructed you to drop the project? [10:13] Margaret, it is impossible to have an economic deal without a peace deal. The sine qua non for an [10:20] economic deal is that Ukrainian leadership wants a peace deal. I thought this was a building block [10:26] towards getting to a peace deal. Well, it was supposed to be. But President Zelensky [10:31] came into the Oval on Friday. There were three things that were going to be done. There was going [10:37] to be a press conference. There was going to be a private lunch with 16 of us. And as you can see [10:42] from Dan Scavino's, the post on his X account, we were already set up to sign the deal. So it's unclear [10:51] now, President Zelensky has thrown off the sequencing. And Margaret, let me tell you the most tragic [10:57] part of this. The President Trump's idea for this economic arrangement was to further intertwine [11:05] the American people and Ukrainian people and show no daylight, to show the Russian leadership that there [11:10] was no daylight. And President Zelensky came into the Oval Office and tried to re-litigate in front of [11:17] the world the deal. And we were going, the place to have done it would have been in the private lunch. [11:23] Okay. Well, it's news to me that this was, that the sequencing is shifting, that you were saying you [11:29] have to agree to a peace deal before the minerals agreement. There aren't even negotiations for a [11:34] peace deal underway. Well, first of all, it's not a minerals agreement. It's a general economic [11:37] agreement. So calling a minerals agreement is incorrect. And I think we have to see if President [11:45] Zelensky wants to proceed. What's the use in having an economic agreement that's going to be [11:50] rendered moot if he wants the fighting to continue? President Trump wants a peace deal. [11:55] Mm-hmm. Vladimir Putin, it's unclear if he wants a peace deal, though. There are no [12:00] negotiations underway. The Secretary of State said that on another network this morning. [12:04] Yeah. And President Trump has said that. President Trump is trying to move towards peace. He said [12:10] repeatedly during that episode in the Oval, we don't know if we'll get a peace deal, [12:15] but we got to try. Okay. Last Sunday, President Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, said on another [12:21] network that the plan for negotiations was the so-called draft Istanbul protocol. [12:28] The Institute for the Study of War says that this would leave Ukraine helpless in the face of future [12:33] Russian threats or aggression. If that's described as the future of U.S. diplomacy and [12:40] the framework, why isn't Mr. Zelensky asking the right question when he says, how can I agree to a [12:48] ceasefire with no security guarantees or even a minerals agreement or investment agreement without [12:54] security guarantees? Well, look, I think the plan is for the European Union to provide this security, [13:01] not NATO, the European Union. And again, the tragedy of Friday, and I don't know what President [13:07] Zelensky was thinking. We had President of France, Emmanuel Macron, in a Monday. Great meeting. We had [13:14] Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Thursday. Fantastic meeting. They were all on board the arc of the peace [13:21] agreement. All President Zelensky had to do was come in and sign this economic agreement and again, show no [13:28] daylight, no daylight between Ukrainian people and the American people. And he chose to blow that up. [13:34] So the deal is no longer on the table, just to be abundantly clear. Not at present. [13:39] Treasury Secretary Besant, thank you for coming in today. Thank you, Margaret. [13:42] Our social media producers tell us that as of this morning, we've had more than 100 million views on [13:48] posts related to the meeting across our CBS News social media platforms. There is no shortage of Trump [13:55] viral videos, but this one has spread around the world. Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, [14:02] I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of [14:06] the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines [14:11] because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the President for trying to bring it into [14:16] this conflict. Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have? [14:19] I have been to... [14:21] First of all, during the war, everybody has problems. Even you. But you have nice ocean. [14:28] And don't feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless. [14:33] You don't know that. God bless. God bless. You will not have the war. [14:36] Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what [14:40] we're going to feel. I'm not telling you. [14:42] Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this. [14:45] You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards. [14:48] I'm not playing cards. [14:49] Right now, you're playing cards. [14:51] I'm wearing serious, Mr. President. [14:51] You're playing cards. I'm wearing serious. [14:52] You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. [14:55] You're gambling with World War III. [14:58] You're gambling with World War III. [15:01] And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, that's backed you [15:08] far more than a lot of people said they should have. [15:10] Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? [15:13] No, in this entire meeting, have you said thank you? [15:16] Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us. [15:22] And we are back now with Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Good to have you back. [15:27] Thank you. Appreciate you having me. [15:28] So what were you thinking when you saw that Oval Office meltdown? [15:32] Well, I mean, the first thing, obviously, is, you know, we have to realize why this is important [15:37] and really what was at stake here. I mean, this is important because Ukraine is important. [15:41] This is about the fight between, you know, authoritarianism and freedom and democracy. [15:47] This is the Ronald Reagan, you know, evil empire against democracy. [15:51] So as we're watching this fight, we have to be concerned about what's crumbling here [15:56] and what needs to be put back together. I think that's what we all felt in our [15:59] in our stomachs and our anxiety as we watched what was at risk here. [16:04] The second thing is, is really how inappropriate this was for Zelensky. [16:08] I mean, the context is this was a signing agreement. Zelensky had been negotiating with [16:14] the United States on a minerals deal, an economic deal, as the Treasury Secretary said. [16:19] He'd been doing so for weeks. I'd met with him with members of Congress in Munich. [16:23] He had told us some of the terms that he wanted. He had a successful deal. [16:27] The United States had conceded he was flying here under the pretext that he was going to sign [16:32] this deal. This should have been a win. As he's sitting in the Oval Office, he said, you know, [16:36] I want the you know, the president to stand with Ukraine in moments. He was going to be standing [16:41] with the president United States with a win that he had negotiated. And instead of taking that win, [16:48] he turned it into a debate on American security guarantees during peace negotiations on the peace [16:54] negotiations instead of taking that win. And then from that going forward. [16:58] Well, it all went sideways after a Polish reporter in the room asked President Trump about his perceived [17:05] alignment with Vladimir Putin. That's what the president reacted to. And then the vice [17:09] president jumped in praising Trump's diplomacy. And that's when Zelensky said what he said about, [17:16] well, what kind of of ceasefire and diplomacy you're talking about. I've brokered deals with [17:22] Vladimir Putin in the past. Do you really think that this was all to blow it up? Or was it just [17:27] people are talking past each other? And what do you actually think happened? [17:31] Well, I think fundamentally here, you know, again, the you don't fly, you know, a quarter across the [17:40] world for a signing ceremony for a deal with the president United States and turn it into a debate [17:48] on American security guarantees on peace negotiations that that are unrelated to the mineral deal that you [17:57] came, the economic deal that you came to sign. But you can't take things out of the context [18:01] in the back, like treat him in a vacuum. Earlier in the week, President Trump had referred to [18:05] Vladimir Zelensky as a dictator. He had instructed diplomats- Which he had retracted because the [18:10] negotiations- Well, then he said, did I really do that? And then he told people at the UN. [18:13] In Trump's way, he had taken back because the negotiations had gone forward in a way that was [18:18] that was positive. But this isn't happening in a vacuum. It is within question, in fact, [18:26] where America's alliances are. French President Emmanuel Macron told a newspaper overnight, [18:32] there needs to be a strategic dialogue with European countries that don't have nuclear weapons, [18:36] because they can no longer depend on the American nuclear deterrent. That's an incredible statement [18:42] from a NATO ally. This is how this is heard around the world. Right. And again, all of these things [18:49] are really hysterics and way overstatements, but they're all coming from the crux here of that [18:54] that Zelensky has made, and I truly believe this is Zelensky, he has made a precondition of going forward [19:03] with peace negotiations, American security guarantees. And what you saw was him enter into a very public [19:09] debate with the president of the United States in the Oval Office of, I want, and you heard it, [19:14] you actually yourself said it to the secretary of the treasury, I want an American security guarantee [19:20] as a precondition for peace negotiations. No one is going to, no president is going to give him [19:27] as a precondition to peace negotiations. You do the peace negotiations, then you determine what [19:32] security guarantees, what arrangements- Right, but he also referred back to failed peace [19:35] negotiations and failed diplomatic agreements brokered by Europe that had no American [19:39] guarantee that failed. So it's a, what's different this time? But you don't continue [19:43] a war for it. I mean, you got to hear president Trump, I mean, he engaged by saying, you know, [19:47] people are dying, we need to stop the dying. We can't have, we can't go into World War II. And, [19:52] and, you know, imploring him to let's go forward with the peace negotiations, and then we'll determine [19:57] what security arrangements need to be made around the peace negotiations. The fact that Zelensky has it [20:03] backwards, the cart before the horse, I want a security guarantee to go into peace negotiations, [20:09] is really what has, has, has caused the impediment. Are you comfortable with the U.S. diplomatic [20:16] outreach and the decision to no longer isolate Vladimir Putin? Because he has not said anything [20:20] about making any kind of concession. Vladimir Zelensky is being asked to do that publicly. [20:26] Well, actually, no, he has not. But the Russians showed up. I mean, I'm very comfortable that Marco Rubio, [20:33] as our Secretary of State, in the lead with these negotiations, is, is very confident. [20:38] Is he in the lead with the negotiations, or is it Steve Witkopf? [20:40] I think he is in the lead with the negotiations. I'm very, I'm very confident of his strength. He has, [20:46] has, you know, commenced the negotiations. I believe that Zelensky needs to trust him. [20:53] And he needs to, to not have this precondition of American security guarantees, which are not coming. [20:58] Remember, you know, Ukraine has been before every president since, since Clinton. Clinton, [21:03] you know, in the issue of the Budapest, when they were giving up the nuclear weapons, Obama, [21:08] you know, Bush, everybody has had Ukraine before them. Every American president has declined to give [21:13] American security guarantees as a precondition to any negotiations. Which is why Zelensky is saying, [21:19] give them to me now, because nothing stopped them before. So peace negotiations need to occur. [21:24] And then we need to look at the, what are the construct of what security guarantees need to be, [21:28] and what is that construct that needs to be put in place. [21:30] I want to ask you something because of the position you have on armed services. [21:33] CBS has confirmed these reports that Defense Secretary Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command [21:38] to temporarily halt cyber operations and planning against Russia. The Washington Post reports that [21:45] that's as long as the negotiations continue. There are no negotiations underway. Does this concern you? [21:50] Have you been briefed on this? I can, I don't, no, I'm unaware of that. I don't believe that that [21:55] would be, there are too many, I'm certain, considerations there for that to be an accurate [22:01] statement. So blanket. But they have ordered Cyber Command to halt cyber operations. [22:08] Considering what I know that, considering what I know, what Russia is currently doing against the [22:13] United States, that would, I'm certain not be an accurate statement of the current status of the [22:17] United States operations. You are confident that the United States. I'm confident, [22:20] considering what Russia is currently doing against the United States, the United States, [22:24] the status against Russia would not be that. Considering what we are facing from, from Russia [22:31] operations, yes. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Congressman Turner. We'll be right back [22:37] with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us. President Trump will be addressing a joint session [22:44] of Congress this Tuesday. Be sure to join us for that. Our network coverage of the speech starts at 9 p.m. [22:50] Eastern time Tuesday night. But CBS News 24 seven special coverage begins at five. We'll be right [22:56] back. We go now to Senator Mark Kelly in Tucson, Arizona. Good morning to you, Senator. Good morning. [23:12] You were one of the lawmakers who met with President Zelensky prior to that Oval Office meltdown. [23:19] Senator Lindsey Graham later told reporters he had warned Zelensky quote, don't take the bait. [23:26] Do you think Zelensky took the bait? Is that how you understand what happened? [23:32] I think he was cornered and he was bullied in the Oval Office. And Margaret, that just makes us look weak. [23:40] You know, I think Donald Trump was trying to look tough. J.D. Vance was trying to look tough. The only [23:45] winner in that exchange is Putin, who's a criminal, who's killing, you know, hundreds of thousands of [23:52] Ukrainians. So it was a sad day for our country. It was a dumpster fire of diplomacy. It should not have [23:59] been done. That kind of negotiation should not be done in public in front of cameras. When we had our [24:04] meeting earlier in the day with Zelensky, he has this like habitual gratitude. He was very thankful. [24:13] And the chairman of the Armed Services Committee kicked the cameras out of the room before we started [24:18] to talk. That's the way this should be handled, not what, not what Donald Trump did. [24:22] Well, the treasury secretary who was just with us said, um, you can't get an economic deal without [24:28] a peace deal first. So it seems the dynamic is changing in terms of what the Trump administration [24:34] is putting forward here. What was your understanding of what Vladimir Zelensky's concerns were? [24:41] Well, I mean, his concern is that he doesn't have a security guarantee and he's being asked to give [24:48] up minerals, that this is a business deal. Margaret, we're about to celebrate our 250th birthday as a [24:55] country. And I didn't think we were just in it for, for the money. I mean, we are a country of values [25:03] and principles. We stand with our allies. Um, he needs security guarantees. Yeah, I understand this [25:11] concept of, uh, economic deal and a ceasefire, but the economic deal comes after the ceasefire. [25:16] None of that makes sense. They need to get in a room, uh, including with the Russians. I mean, [25:21] have the Russians given any indication that they want peace? Our treasury secretary questioned whether [25:27] Zelensky wants peace. Of course he does. He has his population being murdered, raped, children are [25:35] kidnapped. He wants out of this situation, but he, he, he, he's having a hard time obviously negotiating [25:43] this in public. By the way, I mean, his English is not the best. So this is hard for him to corner [25:48] him in the Oval Office on that kind of stage was wrong. And it makes us look weaker as a nation and [25:55] it makes us less safe. You've been to Ukraine a number of times. Our last guest, Mike Turner has been [26:01] to Ukraine a number of times as well. Um, neither the president nor the vice president have at all. Uh, [26:06] JD Vance, the vice president said to Zelensky, um, those are propaganda tours. Is that what you did? [26:13] Did you go on propaganda tours? No, I mean, I, I went into Patriot batteries and, you know, [26:21] talked to the troops that every night are defending themselves from incoming ballistic missiles and [26:27] cruise missiles, trying to keep their population alive. I met with soldiers, you know, some of [26:33] which are, you know, amputees at this point who just, and soldiers that just came from the front [26:38] lines to talk to me in person about what the situation on the ground is. I met with pilots [26:44] there who were about to get their F-16s. And we talked specifically about, you know, how can you use [26:50] this airplane in combat? Yeah. I think JD Vance, the vice president, with all due respect, [26:55] it sounds like he's watching videos on the internet. And to say to Zelensky, you're not [27:01] being thankful enough. I mean, Zelensky thanks the American people all the time. And I got to say, [27:09] Margaret, if, if, if we can end this, and I want this to end as much as anybody, but it has to end [27:15] in a way that the Russians are going to respect. And what was in the Oval Office yesterday was a [27:20] demonstration of weakness. And I could tell you, Putin does not respect weakness. [27:26] I want to ask you about the U.S. border. The number of migrants crossing the southern border [27:30] illegally in President Trump's first full term and first full month in office plunged to a level [27:36] we haven't seen in 25 years. This is according to data reviewed by CBS. This seems like this is [27:43] good for your state. Do these numbers prove President Trump's theories right? [27:47] Well, I think the numbers being down, that's a good thing. What we need long term is a negotiation [27:57] with the Republicans on longstanding border policy. What the administration is doing, [28:02] especially with ICE raids in schools, with flying, repatriating people who often aren't only criminals [28:11] in military airplanes for intimidation, talking about housing people on Guantanamo, that's for [28:17] intimidation. It's good the numbers are down. That's a positive thing. We need a border security [28:25] agreement. We need legislation. We also need immigration reform. Talk about my state for a [28:31] second. We've got a lot of dreamers. They deserve a pathway to citizenship. We need a plan for farm [28:37] workers as well. Secretary of Defense Hegseth is sending another 3,000 troops to the border, [28:43] including an aviation battalion and striker vehicles, CBS has confirmed. Now, these soldiers [28:50] aren't allowed to intercept migrants. Do you understand the mission, the intent? You have [28:55] oversight over armed services, so I wonder how you feel about this. Well, I don't feel good about it. [29:03] The way this should be handled is if we could work together within the United States Senate, [29:07] Democrats and Republicans, get the Border Patrol more money, hire more Border Patrol agents, [29:11] give them more resources to do the job they're supposed to do. When you do it with troops, [29:16] that affects their readiness. This isn't what they're trained to do. Then they don't get to [29:20] train to do, that striker battalion doesn't get to train to do the job that they may need to do one day. [29:28] I don't want to see us in a conflict around the world anywhere. But what prevents that is for our [29:34] allies to realize that they're not going to win in a fight. And when they see us doing things like this, [29:39] police actions with the military, that also is showing the rest of the world that our military [29:45] is less capable and we are weaker. And that affects everybody's safety. Lastly, because you sit on the [29:52] Intelligence Committee, I want to ask you about something President Zelenskyy said. He said in [29:56] Munich, Ukraine has intel the Russians are sending troops to Belarus to use it as a launch pad militarily [30:02] into perhaps not just Ukraine, but other European countries. Are you concerned about that? [30:11] Well, I am very concerned about what Putin will do next. If he, if he comes out of this [30:18] and thinks he got a good deal and this was worth his time and effort and loss of life, he doesn't [30:25] care about Russian soldiers. He obviously doesn't care about the Ukrainians. Yeah, that would be very [30:29] concerning for me. I was in the Baltic nations, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania earlier this year. [30:36] They are very concerned. That would be a staging ground for them to attack the Baltics. [30:40] Understood. That's why we're watching it so carefully, Senator Kelly. I appreciate [30:46] your insight. We're going to turn now to Michigan Congressman John James. Good morning to you, Congressman. [30:53] Good morning, Margaret. I want to ask you about what's happening in your state [30:58] with the economy and terrorists. But just staying on the theme for a moment, I know you have a lot of [31:02] Ukrainian Americans in your district. You voted in support of last year's Ukraine supplemental. [31:09] Are you comfortable with the Trump administration's decision to stop recognizing that Russia started [31:14] the war in Ukraine? Russia is the aggressor. Putin is a war criminal. And [31:21] Vladimir Zelensky also fumbled the bag pretty hard. All those things can be true at the exact same time. [31:27] We absolutely must stand by our allies with the exact same time. We also need to make sure that [31:32] we are giving transparency and accountability to the American people. Under the Biden administration, [31:37] billions of dollars were given away with very little accountability and no mission, no end state. [31:41] I'm a combat veteran and my soldiers expected from me that I would be able to articulate objectives, [31:47] a mission and an end state. And the commander in chief last time couldn't do that. President Trump is [31:52] doing everything that he can to get a lasting peace and enduring peace in Eastern Europe and throughout [31:57] the world. He's already ended one war in the Middle East. I think we should give him a chance to end one [32:00] in Europe. Well, I think there's developments on the Mideast front that throw that into question, [32:06] but we'll keep tracking that. Let me ask you about tariffs and Michigan because you are really [32:10] in a unique spot in the middle of the auto state. This Tuesday, expect tariffs on Canada, Mexico and [32:18] China. That's what the president said. On March 12th, 25 percent tariffs and all imported steel and [32:24] aluminum. No exceptions for trading partners. Auto tariffs in April. What is your district bracing for? [32:33] Look, America is open for business, but we are not for sale. Michigan remembers what NAFTA did to us. [32:39] And over the past 30 years, Mexico has built 11 major automotive plants to only one in the United [32:45] States. Michigan remembers 900,000 automotive jobs over back in the 90s to 600,000 now. That's over [32:54] 300,000 lost manufacturing jobs in the automotive sector. Michigan remembers the Great Recession, [32:59] where 50 percent of all the jobs lost in all of America were lost in Michigan alone. And Michigan [33:04] remembers the harmful EV mandates that have forced compliance rather than actually allowing [33:09] a regulatory environment that permits innovation. We've lost jobs to Mexico and China. Right now, [33:14] in my district, as you mentioned, the number one manufacturing district in all the nation, [33:18] overflow production is not going to Sterling Heights. It's going to Saltillo, Mexico. [33:22] When you look at the opportunities that are missing us, when you look at the fact that [33:27] Michigan is seeing its opportunities pass by, enough is enough. [33:31] Margaret, the status quo is not good enough for Americans, which is why Donald Trump got elected. [33:35] He's putting Americans first. And frankly, even our allies have not been playing a fair game. [33:40] Look, fair trade is the objective, but fair trade. Right. The specific tactic here, [33:47] because you brought up Sterling Heights, the Republican mayor of Sterling Heights, Michael Taylor, [33:51] your district, says the president's tariffs are the quote, single biggest threat to our local economy. [33:57] He's expecting it to be devastating and staggering. This is a Republican saying this about the impact [34:03] on your district. What's he missing? What's devastating and staggering is the fact of the [34:09] matter that we have been taken advantage of for decades. The president, under his original tax plan, [34:14] lowered corporate tax rates from 35 to 21 percent. And he's offering lower tax rates to 15 percent for [34:20] those who build in the United States of America. We're also looking at energy independence. We're also [34:26] looking at lowering the regulatory burdens for folks to succeed and excel. But what Democrats are doing [34:32] is they're going to actually make it more difficult when they vote against these tax reforms for small [34:36] businesses to excel and for entrepreneurs to get their feet under them. And so regardless of what it [34:42] is, when you take a look at the EV policies that Joe Biden put in place that actually exacerbated the [34:47] inflation, just look at work trucks. Work trucks five years ago were $15,000 less expensive than they [34:54] are right now. SUVs, $8,000 less expensive than they are right now. That inflation was caused by [35:00] terrible Democrat policies. And that is, what's that? So you're telling the mayor he's wrong? [35:05] I mean, the Ford CEO said in an investor conference last month that 25 percent tariff [35:10] would blow a hole in the U.S. industry that we have never seen. Well, you know what? [35:18] Memory is kind of short because when you look at the OECD nations, they're already talking about [35:22] leveling 15 percent tax on anything in businesses that are making $750 million or more. Everybody should [35:29] be looking at the impact that makes on top of the tariffs that are already imposed on goods that [35:34] are made in the United States of America. No one is talking about this, Margaret. And all these [35:38] economists, we expect that these are going to be honest brokers, but they're not. We are not [35:42] operating it. You know, you can go talk to the CEO of Ford, but what I'm dealing with is people I'm [35:47] talking with when I visit factory floors each and every single day. I am an automotive supplier in the [35:52] United States of America, and I feel this pain. We've seen it for too long. And like I've said, [35:56] we've been taking advantage of for years, and we need to level the playing field. When you're not [36:01] playing fair with America, then we have to do what we can to make sure that we can compete on a fair [36:06] playing field. And Margaret, I think that fairness is what we should be pursuing. And I don't think [36:11] that's wrong to ask for out of our allies and our partners. The global supply chain, I know you know [36:17] it well, is complicated here and the production goes back and forth. Yes, I have a master's in it, Margaret. [36:22] I understand it. And I'm also in the automotive industry. Right. Well, what I'm trying to say is [36:27] that the cars go back and forth across the border multiple times. So what is the construction of the [36:33] tariffs that you think is actually going to be beneficial here? You know, it also comes across [36:39] the border. Fentanyl coming in from Mexico when China is sending in precursors. And as a result of [36:44] these negotiation tactics, Mexico surged 10,000 of their own National Guard troops to the border. And [36:51] just as you're mentioning in the last segment, I think it was great that border apprehensions on [36:55] the southern border have plunged the lowest levels this century. You know, this is working. Mexico is [37:00] paying for the border security. They're extraditing drug lords to be prosecuted in the United States [37:05] of America. And these are the types of things that we're looking for. Eighty-four percent of those in [37:10] the terror watch list and the FBI terror watch list are apprehended on the northern border. And we're [37:14] getting Canadian cooperation, which would have never happened on the previous administration and only [37:19] started when President Trump started playing hardball and talking about these things. We have [37:23] a number of levers, diplomatic, economic and military. And diplomatic levers haven't worked. [37:28] We're using economic levers to secure our borders and to make sure that we have fairness across our [37:32] economy. All right. Thank you. Congressman James, we got to leave it there. President Trump's approval [37:46] rating in our poll is 51 percent. Still in positive territory, but by a smaller margin than he had a month [37:52] ago. And on his approval on the issues, it's a mixed bag. A slim majority of voters approve of his handling of [37:59] the border and the economy, while a slim majority disapprove of his handling of inflation. And we're joined now by [38:06] our elections and surveys director, Anthony Salvato. You asked about a host of issues, Anthony, before this [38:14] explosive Oval Office exchange. You did ask Americans how they're assessing the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. What did you learn? [38:20] Yeah. Morning, Margaret. You know, you can look at Ukraine and Russia and the conflict and then see a wider [38:26] worldview that Americans have. So let me start with this. Aid to Ukraine specifically divides the country, divides it along [38:33] partisan lines, and it has for a while. Democrats more in favor, Republicans more opposed. But then you ask [38:39] people, OK, who do you support in the conflict? Just over half say they support Ukraine and the rest say they're neutral, that the U.S. [38:47] should stay out. Now, where this comes back to the administration is the people who say they're [38:52] neutral are more approving of how Donald Trump is handling all this. The people who say they back Ukraine, [38:58] in addition to supporting aid, feel that Trump's actions have favored Russia in this conflict. [39:05] Now, let's take a look at views on Russia. And the big majority calls Russia either an enemy or unfriendly. [39:11] It's a little less so among Republicans. But then widen out to how the U.S. should act on the world stage. [39:19] Views of our European allies. By and large, Americans call them allies or at the very least [39:25] friendlies. Great Britain, France, Germany, etc. Now, what should the U.S. actually do? [39:32] The big majority is cooperate with allies on the world stage. Those folks tend to be less approving [39:39] of the changes that they see Donald Trump making to U.S. foreign policy. [39:44] So back to the key issue, the economy. How are Americans perceiving what the president is doing [39:50] on that, as well as his cuts to the federal workforce? [39:53] Well, on the point about cuts, let's start with this sort of central premise about, [39:56] is there waste in the federal government? By and large, Americans agree that there is. [40:02] The difference is, where does it come from? If I ask people, is it poor spending choices? [40:08] Is it fraud? Well, you get more Democrats saying it probably comes from poor spending choices. [40:12] Republicans saying it comes from fraud. And then that goes into a split on the changes [40:19] you're making in the federal workforce. That divides the country. And you start to see people [40:24] were looking at and wondering about what the implications of this might be. So I ask, [40:28] is this going to have an effect? There's a lot of people who say, yes, it will have an effect on [40:33] cutting services that they like, an effect on their local area. But there's also just as many who say [40:40] it's going to save taxpayer money. It's going to eliminate waste. And when I see that wide span of [40:47] answers, what my sense is, is people are anticipating a lot of things. They're unsure at this point, [40:53] but they are definitely looking and waiting to see what they believe will be an impact. [40:59] Anthony Salvanto, thank you very much. Thank you. [41:01] We'll be right back. Our MTS Tayyip reports on reaction from Kyiv. [41:12] President Vladimir Zelenskyy's warm welcome at 10 Downing Street [41:16] couldn't have been more different than his reception at the White House. [41:19] He and U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer later signed $2.8 billion worth of loans to Ukraine, [41:30] ahead of today's summit of presidents and prime ministers from across Europe convened by Starmer. [41:35] European countries have to do more and provide a security guarantee. But I've always been clear [41:42] that that is going to need a U.S. backstop. [41:45] ALEXANDER MEREZKO is the chairman of the Ukrainian government's Foreign Affairs Committee. [41:51] The issue of Ukraine is a crucial key issue for European security. Let's not forget that [41:56] the final goal of Putin is not only destroying Ukraine, but also dominating the whole Europe. [42:02] The spectacle of an American president and vice president berating the leader of a war-torn ally [42:08] has left Ukrainians reeling and European leaders scrambling to respond. It has also triggered delight [42:14] from the Kremlin. [42:15] ALEXANDER MEREZKO, And I thought that Mr. Trump can play the role of new FDR, yes. [42:23] But now we can see that we need to think about European role as a leader of the free world. [42:30] JEFFREY BROWN, There's obviously another player here, and that's Russia. [42:35] What do you think the mood in Moscow is right now? [42:37] ALEXANDER MEREZKO, I'm sure that they rejoice. Putin counted. [42:41] He couldn't imagine that something like that, that such a gift can happen. [42:46] But now things have changed, and it emboldens him. He thinks that he is right, [42:53] and he can destroy Ukraine. That's why it's so dangerous. [42:57] NICK SCHIFRIN, A dangerous war which shows no sign of letting up. [43:02] Overnight, there was another massive Russian drone attack in the eastern city of Zaporizhia [43:07] that left a residential neighborhood devastated. [43:10] ALEXANDER MEREZKO, The free world needs a new leader, said the EU's top diplomat, [43:14] Kaya Kalas, following that Oval Office meeting. [43:17] We spoke with her Thursday about what Europeans are doing to help Ukraine. [43:21] KAYA KALAS, The free world needs a new leader, said the EU's top diplomat, Kaya Kalas, following that Oval Office meeting. [43:28] One is that the fight that Ukraine is having is not only about Ukraine's sovereignty, but it's much, much broader. [43:35] It's about freedom of the free world, really. [43:38] It is about the world where international law applies, and the world where might does not make right. [43:46] It is clear that Russia attacked Ukraine. There's one aggressor and one victim. [43:51] But the Trump administration has decided now not to say that explicitly, arguing that the [43:58] president needs negotiating room. Do you think that that's persuasive to Vladimir Putin? [44:06] Well, it is certainly, you know, a very strong Russian narrative that they want to run to really push, [44:13] saying that, you know, oh, it's a conflict between two equal parties. It is very clear. [44:19] One country attacked another country very brutally with force and is bombing Ukraine every day. [44:27] I mean, President Trump says that he wants the killing to stop. [44:30] I don't think that anybody wants the killing to stop more than the Ukrainians. [44:35] So why do you think acknowledging who is responsible does matter? [44:39] We have the United Nations Charter where we have agreed how countries are, you know, [44:45] interacting with each other. And it says very clearly that you can't attack sovereignty, [44:50] territorial integrity of another country. And if you do, there are consequences. And why is it [44:56] important? It is important for small countries in the world for whom this is the only thing that [45:02] protects them. If we don't really defend this principle, then we're going to see all these [45:09] developments that we don't want to see. Because all the countries who are afraid of their neighbors [45:15] will want to go for nuclear weapons, because this is the only thing that protects them. [45:20] It's not the international law anymore. That's it for us today. Until next week. [45:25] For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brandon.