Sandra Birchmore murder trial: Cousin reacts to Farwell's testimony — Jesse Weber Live Full Show

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: hey everybody welcome to jesse weber live tonight i'm brian enton in for jesse tonight the sprint is on to the midterms over the weekend both parties brought out the heavy hitters to make their final pitches to voters also tonight an exclusive interview from the cousin of sandra birchmore the murder trial of a police officer accused of killing the pregnant young woman it is now heating up we'll also talk to the expert death investigator joseph scott morgan about what he heard from the medical examiner today and it was explosive then also tonight two teenagers allegedly run down in cold blood their families face the accused killer in court today the attorney for one of the girls families is going to join me live in just a little bit plus ai giant anthropic is now going public what makes that ipo just so unique we'll talk about it coming up a little later in the show but first there is some breaking news tonight right now there is a manhunt it's on for a convicted murderer who escaped from a tennessee prison last night prison officials say 28 year old jacob allen morley broke out of the northwest correctional complex that's in tiptonville sometime just before 11 30 sunday night they say security cameras confirmed morley breached the perimeter fence and left the facility in his prison uniform and tonight just released video shows morley stealing a white ford truck look at him that's around one o'clock in the morning the truck is marked lindamood planting company on the door police say if you see the truck or morley call 9-1-1-1 immediately morley has been added to the tennessee most wanted list and should be considered dangerous there's of course a reward right now 2 500 bucks for information leading to his capture the tennessee bureau investigation is also asking people in the area to check their doorbell security camera video for footage of this fugitive and again he's serving a life sentence right now for murder that's from back in 2022 the victim's body was found buried under his home so he's obviously a dangerous guy we'll stay on top of the breaking news keep you posted uh if anything happens over the next hour all right we are also following uh three big stories out of washington tonight the first president trump is making a final push ahead of next week's midterm elections in an effort to help republicans hold control of congress trump campaigned in georgia and michigan over the weekend tonight he was in mississippi and later this week he will be in texas and ohio to support republican candidates in key senate races he's also planning stops in florida and iowa before election day i'm asking you to pretend [00:02:52] Speaker 2: that i'm on the ballot here's what happens when i'm not on the ballot we don't do well [00:02:59] Speaker 1: trump is urging supporters to turn out and vote republican while defending his economic policies but our rising prices and frustration over the war with iran creating challenges for the party we're going to get into that second oh tonight we've got trump's influence it isn't just being put to the test here at home two elections overseas are raising questions about the president's influence on politics around the world in brazil president luis anasio lula da silva defeated conservative candidate flavio bolsonaro the son of former president jer bolsonaro the result keeps the bolsonaro family from returning to power and means trump loses a potential ally in latin america's largest country and in serbia a student-led opposition movement defeated the ruling party of alexander wussik another leader who has maintained close ties with trump and now attention is also turning to israel where voters head to the polls tuesday trump has publicly endorsed prime minister benjamin netanyahu making the election another test of whether his support can influence voters in another country the picture is more complicated than it seems however conservative and right-wing movements are still gaining support in some parts of europe so these elections signal a to do these elections signal a broader political shift or not that's the big question we're going to discuss and finally third nikki menage is taking her support for president trump to new heights literally the rapper joined trump aboard air force one for a trip to michigan where she praised his leadership and work ethic and now there is even talk of a white house job communications director stephen chung joked there she is on air force one that nikki could be the next white house press secretary even going as far as sharing this video the two of them talking about it she's in her gucci suit there was it really a joke or could it be something more look at nikki menage on air force one all right we've got kelly meyer she's joining us now live from washington with the latest on all of this kelly let's start with trump trump's on the stump the midterms are just days away what is the strategy and messaging behind his upcoming stops and [00:05:16] Speaker 3: and how is it landing with voters yeah hey brian he is non-stop on the campaign trail he just wrapped up in mississippi tomorrow he has two different stops in texas he goes to ohio on wednesday they just added another stop on thursday in south carolina friday he's back to florida and then sunday to iowa so we still don't know where he's going to be election night but there could be some more time for more rallies before then and his goal here is really to rally voters around republican candidates and really just drive that voter turnout because that's what we're looking at next tuesday of course it all comes down to turnout and we'll see if this makes a difference if these visits that the president is putting in the time in each of these different locations and saying that he's he doesn't think any other president had this many rallies during a midterm uh election and we'll see if it pays off for [00:06:05] Speaker 1: republicans all right let's talk about the elections in brazil and serbia conservative populace defeated in both countries can anything really be read into that here at home or is or in this israeli election that's happening tomorrow or do you think it doesn't have much of an impact on what's happening [00:06:24] Speaker 3: in the u.s it's a good question and it will be interesting to see what happens abroad and if it's a sign of what's to come here at home because we just saw a pair of trump allies lose their elections and we'll see what tomorrow holds for the close trump ally benjamin netanyahu in israel but it's still unclear how that will translate to what's happening here back home but it could show a loss of support for trump allies and then maybe people think that would mean a loss of support for the president here at home but again it really does come down to who comes out to vote on tuesday and if the republican party and republican voters come out in droves to support their candidates if that makes a difference and then you know keeps them gives them the house and the senate have them [00:07:05] Speaker 1: keep that here on capitol hill okay and on to my favorite story political story right now kelly nikki minaj was communications director stephen chung really just joking or could there be more to the story what are the chances we could actually see nikki minaj behind the podium in in the briefing room [00:07:26] Speaker 3: yeah i mean you never know i mean she just she's there with the president campaigning she was on air force one with him she was kind of doing that sort of a mock briefing with the communications director i did text him tonight to ask to see if that's really going to happen we don't know yet um but we also know that the president himself and even folks at the white house i talk with say this that the president is his own best press secretary he is out there speaking for himself often when we go back there to the lower press in the white house and ask questions they'll often say we'll let the boss speak for himself when he posts on true social about that topic so he really does speak for himself it'll be interesting interesting to see when they do fill that position it looks like right now they'll just wait until after the midterms maybe into the new year but certainly some big shoes to fill with caroline levitt leaving [00:08:14] Speaker 1: that spot yeah for sure all right kelly it's always nice to see you uh thank you for joining us tonight uh we're also following the news of one of the biggest names good to see you kelly yes we're following the news one of the biggest names in artificial intelligence uh heading to wall street and what could become the largest initial public offering in history anthropic the company behind the popular ai chatbot claude filed paperwork today to go public as early as next month and the numbers are really really staggering the five-year-old company could be valued at as much as two trillion dollars two trillion dollars but there are some concerns about that valuation despite reporting more than 16 billion dollars in revenue during the first half of this year the company still isn't profitable uh and dario amode that is the company's ceo has been warning that ai could pose an existential threat to humanity even as his own net worth seems poised to hit the stratosphere now you don't need me to tell you that two trillion dollars is a lot of money but i just want to put it into perspective for you and this is really interesting at two trillion dollars anthropic alone would be more than uh more than the public market value of the airline alcoholic beverage and cosmetic industries all combined and sam altman's open ai is preparing its own ipo and some estimates have that company worth a whopping 1.25 trillion dollars that means that anthropic and open ai together would be worth nearly 10 of the total u.s gdp which is the monetary value of all the country's goods and services in a given year but is it a smart idea to let such awesome economic power rest in the hands of just a few companies and even more scary what happens if the ai bubble pops join me now for a closer look it's dr chris clark a professor of economics at washington state university thank you for being with us dr clark first of all the thing i never understand is and and we just said it the fact that these companies are are not profitable yet they're worth so much how how is that possible right so the value of a stock price isn't [00:10:31] Speaker 4: going to be the revenues today it is the value of all the future profits coming for forever discounted into today's dollars so the the bet is that anthropic eventually will be very profitable [00:10:48] Speaker 1: so the the uh the two trillion dollar number there it's an incredible sum worth more than some industries combined why do investors think that anthropic may be worth such a huge valuation [00:11:00] Speaker 4: uh well this is uh an extraordinary new technology and i i would say it's a general purpose technology like this isn't just a new coat of paint or a new little switch or some gadget or gizmo this is a technology that could be used to improve driving flying manufacturing statistical research any job that involves any computer interface is going to be affected by this technology [00:11:26] Speaker 1: anthropic and open ai could be worth nearly 10 percent of the u.s gdp what does that tell us about the direction of our economy and and should we expect that like these mega corporations are going to become [00:11:40] Speaker 4: more and more common uh you know that's a really great question the the relationship you know comparing the total wealth the total stock of wealth to gdp which is not a stock but rather a flow so gdp measures the new goods and services that are produced every year it is not a measure of the total wealth in the united states if you look at the total wealth in the us it's well north of a hundred trillion dollars so when we think of anthropic as one maybe two trillion it's a big company but number one it's not the biggest nvidia is looking at four or five trillion uh apple's this big uh saudi aramco and the oil industry is around this size microsoft apple so it's large but it's not something that the united states economy can't handle now there was a second half of your question should we be concerned about like one or two or three ai companies controlling a significant portion of this industry uh i would say yes but at least for now we don't just have one or two microsoft has theirs facebook is developing it elon musk has his ai for and and china has their own battery of ai [00:12:44] Speaker 1: companies for now the market's quite competitive if these companies do one day become worth trillions of dollars like how much of that wealth makes it into the broader economy will this somehow help [00:12:58] Speaker 4: everyday americans or not really right so this there's kind of two ways to think about this one if an everyday american has a high risk tolerance then they can go buy it outright uh but because this is a startup because ai has tremendous uncertainty about future profitability that's a lot of gamble but the average american say in their retirement account or 401k or they'll buy some mutual funds would include tiny portions of ai in their whole investment so as uh anthropic increases their valuation uh it's just one one piece of the total wealth in the economy that everybody prospers from interesting dr chris clark [00:13:37] Speaker 1: thank you so much you always help us understand everything well it's my pleasure being on today thanks [00:13:41] Speaker 4: for having me [00:13:48] Speaker 1: all right and now what to watch this week as we follow the cornell seven alleged gang rape one of the accused uh chi-fi fraternity members seeking to be removed from jane doe's lawsuit diego sarabia accused by doe of forcibly kissing her and snorting ketamine off of her body diminishes his involvement saying the lawsuit is essentially about a forced kiss that's what he said sarabia's team says he is not accused of providing jane doe with drugs or engaging in sexual intercourse with her his attorney filed a motion to dismiss all claims against him he argues claims like assault battery and emotional distress were filed past the one-year statue of limitations and as we've covered previously doe is a former cornell university student claiming she was sexually assaulted and drugged by seven fraternity members back in october 2024 sarabia being one of them a following hearing is now set for thursday so we'll stay on top of that one all right uh coming up the twin brother of the man accused of killing sandra birchmore took the stand today that's him right there that's the twin now sandra's cousin is weighing in on his testimony and questioning who she says is a mystery man caught on surveillance video who is this mystery man my exclusive interview with barbara wright that's coming up next all right there was dramatic testimony today in the sandra birchmore murder trial the twin brother of the former massachusetts cop accused of murder uh he took the stand the twin was on the stand and within minutes william billy farwell admits that he also had sexual relationships with sandra including while he was on duty as a police officer he also testified that he didn't know sandra was involved with his twin brother matthew and he's testifying under a grant of federal immunity after just 20 minutes on the stand court adjoined for adjoined for the day and he's expected to be back on the stand tomorrow but that was not the only major development earlier the medical examiner who originally ruled sandra's death a suicide testified she was missing critical information and was never asked to consider whether sandra's death was a homicide she testified she would have collected evidence differently if she had been investigating a possible homicide and she later changed the manner of death from suicide to undetermined prosecutors allege matthew farwell strangled the pregnant 23 year old and that was back in 2021 and staged her death as a suicide to cover up years of alleged sexual abuse beginning when she was just 15 years old it's an awful awful case farwell has pleaded not guilty and his defense maintains that sandra took her own life i spoke earlier today with sandra's cousin barbara wright who was like a mother to her after sandra lost her own mom she was in the courtroom for all of today's testimony take a look at this just by saying i'm so sorry for everything that happened to sandra this has been such an infuriating case to to follow and my heart just goes out to you and your family my first question though is is billy farwell um matthew farwell's twin brother finally took the stand today what was your he was only on for about an hour he's going to continue tomorrow but what was your what was your impression of him [00:17:29] Speaker 5: he he seemed very uncomfortable that's the main thing he was very uncomfortable he sat down he looked straight ahead he didn't look at his brother at all his mother was sitting out in the gallery with the rest of the people he didn't look her way at all either uh so it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say tomorrow he didn't have much time to talk today [00:17:51] Speaker 1: at all do you believe his story barb because he he admitted that he says he um you know had sex with sandra uh while he was on duty but claims that he didn't know anything about what was happening [00:18:05] Speaker 5: with with his brother and sandra do you believe it no i know i don't i twins know everything about each other you know they're very close i have denise and darlene uh denise sandra's mother and her aunt darlene they were very very close they knew everything about each other so i don't believe it [00:18:27] Speaker 1: it also came out barb almost immediately that the twin billy is testifying under immunity so he can't be charged with anything and it seems that he did commit a crime admitting to doing that with sandra while he was on duty how do you feel about that i mean do you think that that was just necessary to get him to come forward or does it upset you that he got this immunity deal [00:18:52] Speaker 5: oh i believe it was necessary i mean look how far away he he moved he moved all the way out to new mexico so you know obviously he was trying to get as far away as possible i uh i'm not upset by it but i i hope that he'll be truthful and i hope he'll tell us some things answer some questions [00:19:12] Speaker 1: mainly we have so many questions right now there's been so many difficult days uh in court but today seemed especially difficult they showed some of the crime scene photos um i know i know you were [00:19:23] Speaker 5: in the courtroom that must have been really really hard it was hard but i had um two people uh two friends of mine sitting on either side and they motioned to me whenever there was a photo shown that i shouldn't see because i don't want to see that i don't want that to be my last memory of sandra so they actually kind of gave me some sign language to say don't look so i kept my head down and just took notes so i got through it there's been there's been so many [00:19:54] Speaker 1: infuriating parts of this barb um including like when this medical examiner took the stand the fact that it was ruled a suicide without even any like photos from inside the apartment very basic things were not sent to the medical examiner what did you make of that that was extremely frustrating and they [00:20:19] Speaker 5: said to her they asked her if you had known this was a suspected homicide would you have handled uh your autopsy differently and she said absolutely for example they they removed all the clothing from sandra and washed her body if she had known it was a homicide she would have had them leave the clothing on and just had that put in the body bag so that she could just do all the forensics that she needed to do and there were a couple other things that she would have looked at closer to there was a a gash on her forehead that she didn't look at closely because she thought it was a suicide if she had known it was a suspected homicide she would have checked that out a little closer to see exactly what made that that mark and also the mark on her chest because she said that looked like it might be blunt force trauma so if she had known she would have checked that out too closer so it's [00:21:14] Speaker 1: frustrating or even the fact that the police officer told the medical examiner that it was a scarf i think that's the word that he used a scarf around sandra's neck where when you look at the photos it is so clearly not a scarf it is part of a duffel bag but i could see how if you would mistake it for like a belt or something like that but it looks absolutely nothing like a scarf and so the medical examiner thought it was a scarf and it was clearly not a scarf how could she think it was a scarf it didn't even [00:21:46] Speaker 5: look like a scarf in fact if you read the reports you get four or five different uh descriptions of what it was one of them said it was a lanyard one set of belt one set of rope one set of scarf obviously you could see that it was a belt to a duffel bag or some kind of you know pocketbook or something it was definitely with the clasp on it and everything it was obvious how could they [00:22:12] Speaker 1: make a mistake like that yeah yeah and this medical examiner's job was to be the one to decide how sandra died and doesn't even know exactly what it was that was around her neck i mean that seems like the most basic thing that she should have had straight yeah exactly that makes you question a lot of things yeah for sure uh what was sandra's state of mind around that time i mean we heard from her therapist who spoke to her just the day before she died and said that she was very hopeful she was excited she was excited to be pregnant she was not in a suicidal state of mind when was the last time you talked to her and what did what did you feel her state of mind was during that time [00:23:03] Speaker 5: she was she was ecstatic she was all over the moon to be pregnant she was excited she had a new apartment i had co-signed on a new car for her so she had she had a car um she was you know starting her life and she had big plans she was planning a shower baby shower and i mean the minute she knew she was pregnant she was like just ready to go trying to get everything ready for the baby she was that's all she talked about she was excited she wasn't you know depressed at all i didn't see that at all [00:23:40] Speaker 1: did she ever say anything to you about any of these officers about matthew farwell or about billy farwell that had ever come up [00:23:50] Speaker 5: she alluded to the fact that she was seeing a married man she didn't tell me he was a police officer or anything like that she didn't tell me very much at all and you have to understand she was in massachusetts and i was all the way out in seattle so what you know what i knew about her was [00:24:07] Speaker 1: what she told me it seems like the prosecution is winding down their case billy farwell may be the last witness and then we'll see what the defense does do you feel like the prosecution has done enough like [00:24:19] Speaker 5: what is your feeling right now well i think they saved the best for last because after farwell they're going to have dr smock and dr smock is a strangulation expert and not only that he is an expert on strangulations that are made to look like suicides so the best is just to come and then after him is jessica jessica hide so uh she's a forensics expert and we're hoping i don't know for sure but we're hoping she'll talk about sandra's apple watch she might have some insights on that so that will be [00:24:54] Speaker 1: very interesting too okay so there's still there's still several witnesses left when you're in the courtroom barb um what what is it like and have you gotten any kind of feeling like usually when i'm in court covering cases you know i'll look at the jurors a lot just to kind of see if i can see anything read anything on their faces have have you gotten any sense from from the jurors just kind of looking at [00:25:19] Speaker 5: them the only thing i've really noticed is that they're very very interested they're listening to every detail um there's been some emotion at the very beginning of the trial when they showed sandra's picture of the one in the flannel shirt i started talking about what happened a lot of them were crying they were very upset and uh today it was hard for them to look at the photos and there was a lot of uh you know very they were very uncomfortable and uh but that it's good to see that they're all paying attention they're taking notes so i i think that they're they're doing the best they can i i wouldn't [00:25:59] Speaker 1: want to be on that jury that would be very very difficult with billy farwell the twin he's going to be back on the stand tomorrow morning is there anything that you particularly want the prosecution [00:26:12] Speaker 5: to ask him to ask him about yeah i would like them to ask him where he was the night that sandor sandra died where was he when matthew went to her apartment is he the mystery man on the tape because there is a longer version of that apartment uh footage that shows somebody walking by the doorway just before matthew farwell walks out the door just before he leaves and i'm wondering if he's at what we call the mystery man [00:26:45] Speaker 1: that would be interesting to know oh interesting yeah because i've only seen the video with matthew farwell with the mask on when he goes in and then comes out but you're saying there's another man on the [00:26:56] Speaker 5: video there is there's a longer version of the video that someone got very recently and that that part wasn't cut out and it shows someone walking by the door the exit door at the apartment that door you're looking at right there well wait a minute no behind him so when he's coming back out the door that's closing first you see um a person walking by that doorway so i'd like to know who that person is i'd like to know [00:27:28] Speaker 1: where he was yeah that's definitely interesting yeah it'll be interesting to see if um it'll be interesting to see if they ask him about that uh tomorrow well barb i really appreciate i know it's exhausting going through that every single day uh and being in court and um it's a lot for you to have to come on so i i really appreciate you for taking the time i'm always happy to talk about santa it helps all right so coming up more disturbing details in the sandra burchmore murder trial hair tangled in the strap around her neck there's mysterious injuries and evidence that was not collected until weeks after her death and the medical examiner was never even called to the scene so was critical evidence missed forensic death investigator joseph scott morgan breaks it all down coming up next so the medical examiner who originally ruled sandra's death of suicide made a striking admission she testified she was never asked to consider whether sandra had been murdered and did not have critical information including crime scene photos witness statements and information about dna on the ligature around her neck she later changed the manner of death from suicide to undetermined i want to bring in forensic analyst and certified death investigator joseph scott morgan to talk about some of this uh nice to see you as always when you hear that a medical examiner initially ruled this as suicide but was never given these critical pieces of evidence i mean not even photos from the scene is that extremely unusual [00:29:11] Speaker 6: yeah yeah i'm not going to do anything i come from the medical legal world i'm not going to do anything based upon a determination by the police at the scene i want to see it with my own two eyes that's why we have medical examiner investigators and coroner investigators and deputy coroners all over the country my question uh that dovetails with that brian is uh where the hell was the medical examiner why weren't they out there um because they need eyes on on this we have a special expertise in examining the dead in situ in place uh on the scene and we have to take in all of this data so that we can make a determination so we're just not bumping around in the dark based upon some report that sent in with the police that accompanies the body or per phone call or anything like that that's a very very slippery slope that [00:30:01] Speaker 1: they're entering onto there the medical examiner testified that sandra had hair tangled inside the ligature around her neck could that be evidence of a struggle uh or is that something you would expect to [00:30:16] Speaker 6: see in a suicide i've seen it before in a suicide generally with uh textured rope uh kind of like a woven pattern a rope you'll see that every now and then you'll see it get tangled in with with jewelry as well like a necklace uh many times it's indicative of a struggle too uh if a ligature is being applied or or you know if it has been applied either in the uh anti-mortem or peri-mortem state or then when you jump forward into the anti into the post-mortem state where uh perhaps the scene is being staged there's it's a very dynamic event and so that's easy that's an easy thing to happen at a scene involving a [00:30:57] Speaker 1: ligature she also described today red marks above and below the ligature i guess suggesting some kind of movement would that happen if someone hung themselves and then panicked or does that look more like a [00:31:13] Speaker 6: strangulation well most of the time you're going to get it focalized in one specific area you know located here so if i'm if i'm hearing about marks that are superior inferior to to the ligature mark itself i'll have further questions i want to see how deep i want to see if these are superficial insults on the top of the skin or if it really is deep tissue in here because when you're getting into deep tissue brian you're really applying direct pressure into that area that causes these little blood vessels the capillary beds to essentially burst in those areas that's one of the things we look for focal areas of hemorrhage and like the strap muscles and certainly as pressure builds up you see you appreciate petechiae the little pinprick hemorrhages that we see in the eyes [00:32:07] Speaker 1: there was also and they talked about this an unexplained unexplained injury on sandra's chest that the medical examiner says may have occurred around the time of death what what could that possibly [00:32:17] Speaker 6: be from well it's certainly not a resuscitative effort uh you know because many times you can explain that away life-saving measures can't in this case uh she had been down you know for a protracted period of time so we know that that didn't come about that way now there's only two ways that it can happen it's not a post-mortem injury uh because this injury apparently has some level of hemorrhage to it so it's either peri-mortem which is kind of that milky twilight state that we have between life and death or anti-mortem which means that that could go to like an attack uh you know where it's a struggle where someone is being uh maybe pressed down um i've seen these kind of marks for instance on chest and in in strangulation cases where an individual is applying a knee to the chest and i think that that's something that could be explored you want to again brian you want to go in and kind of measure how deep how deep these insults are to the chest if they're you know if they're appreciated at that [00:33:18] Speaker 1: particular time yeah it's such a disturbing case uh joseph scott morgan appreciate you for coming on enjoying enjoying your podcasts very much so uh thank you for taking the time you bet all right two teen girls best friends mowed down while riding their bikes in new jersey now our first look at their alleged killer as he comes face to face with the victim's families in court that's next and tonight we are taking you inside a new jersey courtroom where we're getting our first look at the 18-year-old suspect accused of running down and killing two 17-year-old girls last year vincent bataloro who was 17 at the time is now charged as an adult with two counts of first-degree murder prosecutors say he was driving 70 miles an hour on a cranford neighborhood street when he allegedly mowed down isabella salas and maria niatis last september today bataloro appeared in court for his arraignment and came face to face with both isabella and maria's families the girl's mothers sat next to each other in the gallery the defendant did not speak but his attorney entered a plea on his behalf [00:34:33] Speaker 7: your honor we acknowledge the receipt of indictment 26 10 747 we've discussed it with our client we waived formal reading and asked the court to enter a not guilty [00:34:45] Speaker 1: bataloro's attorney also told the court that defend the defense would likely request a change of venue and pursue an insanity or diminished capacity defense the judge set the next hearing in the case for december 14th and while the victim's families remained composed inside the courtroom they became very emotional on the outside uh friends and family and relatives trying to comfort them isabella's mom spoke to reporters describing what justice for the girls would look like it means everyone who failed [00:35:16] Speaker 8: isabella and maria is held accountable we will keep their memories alive and we will fight like hell [00:35:23] Speaker 1: until they get the justice they deserve thank you and joining me now the attorney for the uh the family brent bramnick who was inside the courtroom it's it's nice to see you again brent first of all i mean our heart goes out to these families like i was watching the press conference and you could literally hear them like wailing in the background it was it was just so awful [00:35:47] Speaker 2: nice to see you again brian yeah it was terrible uh to have the accused killer and i was there with them probably a couple rows back you know he's walking up the side surrounded by multiple sheriff's officers walking in front of them and walking up to the table it was horrific to have to have him there and obviously the families there it was a tense environment is this what you expected to happen [00:36:10] Speaker 1: um in terms of you know him pleading not guilty and some of these other things were there any surprises [00:36:18] Speaker 2: i don't think there were any surprises today this is a pretty routine procedure for a defendant who's arraigned on an indictment basically just being informed of their charges he has lawyers they tell him about the charges he had he entered a not guilty plea so i think this is a pretty routine in terms of structurally what it was obviously it's not routine in that it's a to relive every moment to have to see this individual this accused killer again is terrible for certainly the neotis family and for [00:36:43] Speaker 1: the south's family as well what did you think of the defense suggesting a possible um insanity plea that that seemed to come up well i think we talked about before there is a dash cam of this incident so this [00:37:00] Speaker 2: accused killer is allegedly on a dash cam so this murder could be is on video so as a defense lawyer i have was not surprised that they're going to explore every possible option in terms of motions and applications to the court to defend their client that's their right so i was certainly not surprised that they may come with many types of different motions different applications to the court [00:37:25] Speaker 1: yeah i mean it would be difficult like you said with the dash cam um and some of his youtube videos and stuff to just flat out say you know wrong guy here [00:37:35] Speaker 2: yes yeah i think would be very direct i'm not sure this is a case where it's a whodunit or what happened but certainly the defense is going to explore options such as as they said their insanity such as you said changing a venue these types of other applications to the court to see about trying to defend their client and that's what they're going to do [00:37:55] Speaker 1: and this was an ongoing like bullying situation with him and these girls right i mean this wasn't just an isolated incident remind us like this there was a build-up to this there was i mean it started [00:38:07] Speaker 2: months prior so fulla the mother of maria talks about how many instances prior to this day of where the two girls were murdered that there was a problem with this vincent bataloro and they reported it over and over and over again to the police i mean she is begging for help and from what we can see nothing is done i mean you're talking about two separate swatting incidents so fool is telling us that there was a swatting incident number one and then there was a swatting incident number two and we've talked about that where you know swatting being where an individual calls in something to a house for example and says that police need to respond but nothing's happening there i mean fool on that second swatting and again this is so important i know we've talked about it before but on that second swatting incident when fool is at the house nothing's going on that needs police require police response she's there the police come and she sees vincent bataloro in his car across the street she points him out to the police she points him out to the police and they go over and talk to him and guess what he's let go and guess who's there his father's on scene but he's let go why right well what it [00:39:18] Speaker 1: reminds us there's a connection to law enforcement right but the battle arrows have a connection to law [00:39:23] Speaker 2: enforcement well there's two facts we absolutely know that his father is a retired i believe he retired at the time uh officer from a neighboring town his uncle is the chief of a neighboring town so those are important issues that why we want to know what happened that night who talked to who talked to his father what did his father say what his father say to the police what did the police say to his father on the night they simply let him go when fool have found him outside the house when there was an alleged [00:39:53] Speaker 1: swatting incident yeah it's good questions hopefully we'll get the answers uh brett bramnick really appreciate you for coming on tonight thank you sir thank you bro all right stick with us everybody we'll be right back after this all right a couple of stories we're going to cover into the night there is that active manhunt happening in tennessee this is a crazy one a convicted murderer on the run right now got out of a prison uh on sunday night it's the northwest correctional complex his name is jacob alan morley managed to get over a fence and then steal a pickup truck and is on the run right now uh so we'll keep an eye on that into the night we're also going to continue following the sandra birchmore case tomorrow jesse you'll be back appreciate everybody for watching i'm brian ensign in for jesse cuomo starts right now have a good night