Abdul El-Sayed vs. Mike Rogers Michigan Senate debate

[0:00] Democrats. And Democrat Abdul El-Sayed. Shouldn't be this hard to afford a tank of gas. [0:06] Shouldn't be this hard to pay your rent or your mortgage. Zeroing in on the key issues that matter [0:12] most to you. It's so messed up, I don't even know what to say. Too high right now. In the grocery [0:18] store, gas. Common sense would be nice. AI. There needs to be more regulations. A critical seat [0:25] in a battleground state. Over 60% of Michiganders think the state is going in the wrong direction. [0:31] When they come for our democracy, we won't back down. Tonight, you get to decide which candidate [0:40] will get your vote. Good evening from the nation's capital. I'm your host, Leland Vittert from News [0:49] Nation. It's debate night, and the stakes are high not only for Michigan, but for the country. As the [0:56] balance of power in the Senate takes center stage. Our moderator for tonight's debate is News 8 anchor [1:02] and veteran political analyst Rick Albin. The debate will air around the state, stream online, [1:09] and across the country on News Nation. Before we get to the questions, let's review the rules. [1:17] You will each have 60 seconds to answer a question. And follow-ups get 30 seconds. A digital clock will [1:25] turn red to alert candidates they have 10 seconds till time is up. Each candidate will also have 30 [1:31] seconds for a closing statement. Now live from your local election headquarters and the Wood TV studios [1:38] in Grand Rapids, this is the final night of debate week in Michigan. Thank you, Leland, and welcome to [1:50] News Nation viewers across the country and voters all across Michigan. Thank you for being here. We're going [1:55] to start with the subject that will impact every single person watching. Dr. El-Sayed, we'll begin [2:00] with you. Would you support pausing the federal gas tax, and what else would you advocate doing [2:07] to lower fuel prices? You have 60 seconds, sir. First, Rick, thank you so much for having me. Look, [2:12] I'm a doctor and I'm a dad. And as a dad, I know how much it costs me to fill up my gas tank. [2:17] It is insane. $80. $80 to fill up your gas tank. And yes, I would support pausing the federal gas [2:24] tax. But there is one thing that is actually causing this. It's the war in Iran, a war that [2:30] has been cheerlead by my opponents since the beginning. Called it a win, win, win. I don't [2:34] know about you, but when I go to the gas tank, I don't feel like I'm winning. I don't feel like [2:37] our country is winning. Seven months on, eight months on, how long is this going to last? We can do so [2:42] much better. But here's the problem. If we don't stop this war, we don't stop it now, [2:46] we're going to continue to watch as the Iranian regime chokeholds the Strait of Hormuz, [2:52] making our energy prices higher. And you're going to pay for it, both at the gas tank and at the [2:57] grocery store. And so we've got to end that war above and beyond pausing the gas tax. We also have [3:02] to hold the oil and gas corporations who are using this moment to profiteer us, who have bought off [3:07] my opponent, accountable for what they're doing to raise our prices. Congressman, the same question [3:12] to you. Would you support pausing that gas tax? And what else would you do to lower [3:16] fuel prices? Yeah, I've been pretty aggressive about saying we need a pause, both on the state [3:22] level and the federal level. And remember when it, that 50 cents a gallon, which will help commuters, [3:27] went through the democratically controlled state Senate, they said no. Republicans tried to say, [3:32] give drivers a break. I think that's really important. The other thing we did in talking [3:37] with farmers is we need some diesel help and some diesel aggregarians, diesel help for us. [3:44] So I've called for a diesel rebate, number one, and a pause on exports of diesel to give [3:51] a temporary break. We can resume that once the war comes to an end. I do believe it's going [3:57] to come to an end. We need it to come to an end. But I will say just a couple of things [4:02] about my opponent here. His policies will raise your, the cost of every gallon of gasoline, [4:09] number one, raise your utility rates, cause you $20,000 for a Medicare for all plan that [4:16] takes away private insurance from individuals. It is a disaster. We cannot afford Abdul. [4:22] Dr. Al Saad, I want to do a follow up with you now. The United States is producing oil and gas at [4:30] near record pace, but the products are traded on the international market. And of course, [4:34] that's what sets the price. Should the federal government implement price controls on domestically [4:41] produced production? You have 30 seconds. Look, I definitely think that's, that's something we [4:45] should consider. Look, we are in an emergency when you're paying $5 gas and $8 diesel. That's an [4:51] emergency. And I think we have a responsibility right now to make sure we do everything we can [4:55] to address it. But you just heard something out of my opponent. He said he thinks the war is going [5:00] to end. He's got a direct line to the president who's making sure the war does not end and he's [5:04] not using it because he's cheer led this war the entire time. And this is not a when it ends. We need [5:09] to end it. That's what you're electing a U.S. Senator to do to stand up to Donald Trump and end the [5:13] stupid war. Congressman, follow up for you for 30 seconds. Would you be in favor of doing some type [5:18] of price controls if these prices stay this high? You have 30 seconds. No, I think you could do it [5:23] through the mechanism of which I just described. And the doctor, well, he's not really a doctor. [5:29] He says he's a physician. Matter of fact, if somebody came into his office and he tried to [5:34] treat that patient, he'd go to jail. So listen to this guy and what he's trying to sell here today. [5:41] You're going to find out that this guy is not what he says he is. He is actually selling the best [5:47] con I think I've ever seen. This is the first round of that and I can't wait to talk more about [5:52] that. You were mentioned in that comment. You have 30 seconds to respond. You know, my opponent here [5:58] is going to make this about him and about me. But really, in the end, this is about you. It's about [6:04] whether or not you can afford your gas, you can afford your groceries, whether or not you can see [6:07] a doctor. Look, I have a medical degree from Columbia University. He's got issues my credentials. He could [6:12] take it up with them. But it's not really about me. It's about whether or not you can see your doctor. [6:17] It's about whether or not you trust your next U.S. senator to stand up to Trump and Trumpism. [6:22] But when you're running because Donald Trump called you and asked you to run, you can tell [6:26] he's not going to stand up to anybody. 30 seconds to respond. Well, first of all, I'm running because [6:33] in the last quarter century, we've lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs in Michigan. The last eight [6:38] years, we have the highest utility rates in the Midwest, highest auto insurance rates in the [6:43] country. Now you have to be 40 years old or the average new homeowner is 40 years old. Our education [6:50] is now 45th in the country. That's why I'm running. My opponent, everything he's talking about, and he [6:57] won't talk about how to pay for it or what he does to make sure that he's taking money out of your pocket [7:02] because he can't. Mike, you did that, man. That was your policy. NAFTA, your policy. [7:09] We'll come back to this. We'll move on right now. I want to talk about the trade battle between the [7:13] United States and Canada, what it means for Michigan jobs and Michigan prices. Congressman Rogers, [7:20] a week ago, you said this at a news conference near Saginaw. [7:23] Any time you have that series and list of tariffs, I argue some are going to be really good for [7:30] Michigan. Some are probably not going to be good for Michigan. So what I've said and committed to [7:34] is going back, working with the president to try to get rid of the ones that there's consensus aren't [7:40] helping. But just yesterday, you released a new ad that said, quote, here in Michigan, we know Canada [7:47] is not our enemy. We need to end this tariff war now. So in the course of a week, it seems that you've [7:55] changed your tone on tariffs. Are you saying that we need to eliminate all tariffs for Canada? [8:02] You have 60 seconds. I would like to see the deal made. I have actually called the White House this [8:07] week, talked to the Secretary of Commerce about getting the deal done. Canada still has some high [8:13] tariffs for U.S. goods, and they did it before this started. Those should be eliminated. There are [8:19] tariffs that I think are too high and not helpful for us. We ought to get rid of those. So this is about [8:24] getting the best deal possible. I'd like to see it end. I think we need to end it. And I, as a matter [8:31] of fact, have made those phone calls this week to make sure that we can get those things taken care [8:36] of. Now, again, remember, my opponent here wants to raise the cost of everything you touch. He's for an [8:43] energy carbon credit that would, everything you touch, your groceries getting more expensive, your car [8:49] more expensive, your light and electric bill more expensive. The fact that he's going to take away [8:54] your private health insurance, turn it over to the government, and it would cost each family about [9:00] $20,000 a year in new taxes. This is the problem we've got to face. Dr. El-Sayed, on your website, [9:08] you say, quote, I support targeted smart tariffs that would help protect Michigan manufacturing [9:13] and incubate the industries of the future with unions at the forefront. With that said, [9:20] what is a Canadian tariff that you might keep? You have 30, I'm sorry, you have 60 seconds. [9:25] One that's actually logical, unlike anything Donald Trump has ever actually done in office. Look, [9:31] you're hearing somebody who has cheerlead, again, a Canadian tariff policy that we are paying $5,600 [9:38] a year for. If we were serious about using tariffs, we would do it in the way that the UAW has advocated. [9:44] The UAW has advocated for smart tariffs, where we actually hook it to an industrial policy that [9:49] makes sense. We're invested in high growth, high manufacturing capacities, and then we use tariffs [9:55] to protect our own market. This is, like everything, ham-fisted, chaotic, self-serving that Donald [10:01] Trump does. And the issue that is making Mike move, right, you talked about his flip-flop. The reason [10:07] he's flip-flopping has nothing to do with policy, has nothing to do with your costs, has everything to [10:11] do with his sagging poll numbers. He doesn't like the fact that this is not a pathway to power for [10:15] him anymore, so all of a sudden he's reverse course. He's doing an ad, drinking a LaBats and talking [10:19] about the Red Wings, pretending like he was not for this the entire time. Be serious, my guy, [10:23] like just be serious. People deserve to know that I have a leader who's going to be serious about [10:26] policy. We're going to move on to health care unless you have a response. Well, listen, [10:31] what he's talking about, a few weeks ago he said, I will go back and fight every one of the [10:36] tariffs that have been put in place. Detroit Diesel added a third shift because of those tariffs. [10:42] We have the Chevy Silverado came back to Michigan. Huge, billion-dollar investment because of those [10:49] tariffs. We saved Traverse City cherries because of those tariffs. He wants to undo it because he [10:56] can't see past his own political rhetoric. We didn't change. What we said is things move. We're [11:03] trying to get it wrapped up. We want a deal on those tariff deals. Dr. El-Sayed, 30 seconds, [11:09] we have to move on. Weak, cowardly, won't stand up until his poll numbers drop. This is what you can [11:15] expect from a guy who's bought off $5 million from corporations to run his previous campaigns, [11:20] voted to raise your prescription drug prices or to keep them high 19 times. He has the audacity to [11:25] do an ad looking at the drug prices in Canada, except for he voted four times to keep you from [11:30] buying the prescription drugs in Canada. It's incoherent. The only thing he cares about is [11:35] his power and going back one more time through the revolving door to make, what, $14 million you made? [11:39] All right. You know, listen, I can't let that stand. I mean, let me just tell you this. I won't let this [11:45] stand from a guy who is taking corporate PAC money. He snuck in the back. He snuck in the back [11:50] door to Chuck Schumer. That money is raining down on him. Oh, by the way, corporate executives, [11:56] Pfizer pharmaceutical, NVIDIA. Gentlemen, gentlemen, Google. We have to keep this in order. [12:00] Well, I mean, it's the hypocrisy here is absolutely astounding. Two yachts made $14 million. Do you guys know what Telefonica is? [12:07] It's a corporation he advised that that was helping Maduro spy on his own people. How much money you make [12:12] often? Can you tell us how much money you made? Can you say? Okay. Is this like the deal that you [12:17] cut with Wayne County where you took taxpayers' money to run for the United States Senate? We need to wrap [12:22] this up. I'm going to ask the next question. Oh, and by the way, the woman who replaced him got paid [12:25] $100,000 less. We're going to move to health care. Democratic state. I do want to talk about health care. [12:31] I know he doesn't, but let's get on. We're going to talk about health care. And guys, I'm going to tell you [12:35] right now, we've got to stick to our time limits. We've got a lot to cover. I appreciate your passion, [12:39] but please let's try to keep this orderly. We're now moving to health care. Democratic state [12:46] representative Karen Whitsitt said she is supporting Republican Mike Rogers in this race [12:52] because of your Medicare for all position. Dr. El-Sayed, her husband has employer provided health [12:58] insurance. You will lose your health insurance if the other candidate gets in office. There's no if [13:07] ands or buts about it. That is what Medicare for all means. Dr. El-Sayed, you have said additional [13:15] private coverage would become redundant. In your plan, could families keep their private [13:20] health care? Yes or no? You have 60 seconds. Yes, absolutely, Rick. If families want to keep [13:25] their private health insurance, that's fine by me. But for too many people, if you lose a job, [13:30] excuse me, if you want to lose your, if you, if you lose your job, if you turn 26, you get married, [13:35] get divorced, turn 65, all ways that you can lose your health care in America. That is exactly what [13:41] this guy has signed on to. He voted against the ACA for God's sake. I want to guarantee every single [13:46] person in this country, cradle to grave coverage without premiums, co-pays, deductibles, that doesn't [13:51] have a network, that does not pay a corporate CEO tens of millions of dollars a year, that allows you to [13:58] have the security of knowing you're not going to be one of the millions of people in this country [14:01] who fall into medical debt to the tune of $225 billion. Contrast that with him. He wants you [14:06] to have to pay $50 to see a doctor. He wants to continue to be Big Pharma's champion. He called [14:11] himself Big Pharma's champion. Took more money from the pharmaceutical industry than any member of [14:15] Congress, more than any member of Congress in the Michigan delegation. This is a guy who wants to do [14:20] service for the corporations. Of course, he's going to stand up for them. Congressman Rogers, [14:24] staying with health care. Flint physician and past president of the American Medical Association, [14:30] Dr. Bobby McCullough, criticized the federal health care legislation enacted last year [14:35] that you said would protect Medicaid. The cuts to federal health care programs, [14:42] including Medicaid and CHIP, will shift costs to the states and specifically to physicians and [14:48] hospitals to provide uncompensated care at a time when rural hospitals and physician practices [14:54] are struggling to keep their doors open. The congressman, the doctor says the changes will [15:01] instead make health care less accessible. What specifically in that law leads you to say [15:06] that Medicaid was protected? You have 60 seconds. $50 billion to rural hospitals was a good start for [15:12] that. But let me just talk about this. So when I was in Congress, I actually pushed the acceleration [15:18] of generic drugs. Trust me, the pharmaceutical company's not happy about it. There are 2 million [15:25] Michigan families today who are on Medicare enjoying Part D prescription drugs, which I did champion [15:32] because there was no prescription drug coverage under Medicare, which I thought was a terrible [15:37] idea. But what my friend here just wants to do is he's kind of like a glitchy AI chatbot is say the [15:44] same thing over and over and over again. But let me tell you this. He has taken money from groups [15:50] associated and support the Muslim Brotherhood. He has taken money from individuals on his campaign [15:56] who openly support Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda. He's taken money from the George Soros family. What we found [16:03] out is that this thing goes way back. Apparently they paid for his education in Colombia. Now they're paying [16:09] for his campaign. By the way, that's a billionaire. Last I checked. We're out of time. I'm going to [16:14] give you a 30-second reload. What degree did I get at Colombia? I get interviewed by him, not by you. [16:18] As a doctor, as a doctor, I understand exactly what's happening. Not a physician. He says, I like to say [16:22] the same thing. Not a physician. He says, I like to say the same thing. He's done the same thing over [16:26] and over and over again. You know what that is? Vote to keep your prescription drug prices high. 19 times. [16:31] That's just not true. A million dollars alone from Big Pharma. Another million dollars [16:35] from the health insurance corporations. Of course he is touting their talking points. This is a guy [16:39] who has not been serious about providing people health care his entire career. What he has been [16:43] serious about is making sure that he can monetize his time in public office. 14 million dollars, [16:48] two yachts, a McMansion in Florida. So at the end of the day, I'm a doctor. I want people to have [16:53] health care. All right, 30 seconds. We're going to move on after this. 30 seconds. How does a guy who's had [16:59] less than four years of work experience, who by the way on the campaign trail said he had 10, [17:05] own a luxury property in the United Arab Emirates? He's worth a million bucks. Somebody has to tell [17:11] me how this math works. A, his facts are wrong. Those are lies. But he is consistently not telling [17:18] the truth. Well, let me just say it. He's lying. So he lied about being a physician. He lied now about [17:23] being an Egyptian citizen or not being an Egyptian citizen. I can't figure out what he is today. [17:28] Rick, can I just speak to this? This impacts what he's trying to tell you where he wants you to be. [17:33] That's a con man. Congressman, we've got to stay on time. I just want to respond to this. You can [17:39] respond to me. Remember what I said. He wanted to make this about him or me. But the question is [17:43] about you. Can you afford your gas? Can you afford your groceries? Under this guy who's going to rubber [17:48] stamp everything Donald Trump tells him to rubber stamp, you're going to continue to pay way more out [17:52] the nose because he works for corporations and Donald Trump. Okay, look, here's the situation. We've got [17:58] dozens of questions we want to get to. You can't litigate all of these with 14 different rebuttals. [18:03] So please work with me. I want you to say what you want to say. Do it within the body of an answer, [18:08] and we'll try to move along. Let's talk about another subject this time. It's a viewer question, [18:13] and here's my colleague Amber Kriska with that. ICE has been a source of controversy since President [18:19] Trump's second term began. This question is from Deb Morello. My question for both candidates [18:27] with regard to ICE and ICE agents. What is your plan for holding them accountable or holding them to [18:34] the same standards as other law enforcement officials? And if the plan is to abolish ICE, [18:41] what is your plan for keeping our borders and citizens safe? Congressman Rogers, you've been [18:47] supportive of President Trump's immigration enforcement strategy. Name one instance or one [18:53] circumstance in which you believe the administration went too far. You have 60 seconds. You know, I think [19:00] the public efforts in Minnesota were probably not appropriate. I actually did fugitive raids when I [19:07] was an FBI agent in Chicago. You always want to go in quiet, get the bad guy, get out of the neighborhood [19:13] for less problems. So that's that to me was something that they could have done differently. They made that [19:17] correction. They made that adjustment. But it has been the largest decrease in murders ever recorded. [19:24] Almost 20% across the nation. Why they were targeting murderers and rapists who were here illegally [19:31] doing bad things. As a matter of fact, just in this town, we had Ruby Garcia, who was killed by an [19:37] illegal immigrant who, if he had not been here, we'd still have Ruby alive today. So if you think [19:43] about what we need to do to make sure that neighborhoods and Americans are safe, that's [19:49] exactly what we need to do. And I would apply the same law enforcement standards to the FBI as I do the [19:54] ICE agents. I think they do fine. Doesn't mean every one of them is perfect. Dr. El-Sayed, [19:59] you've made your position clear. You want to abolish ICE. Let me give you a scenario. If an undocumented [20:06] immigrant in Michigan commits a violent crime, serves a sentence, and has a deportation order, [20:11] under your system, would he be deported? You have 60 seconds. Yes. But you don't have to do that by [20:17] violating the whole constitution in the way that ICE has been enabled to do by this rogue [20:22] administration. ICE right now is not about immigration enforcement. ICE is about terrorizing [20:28] our streets. He's talked about what happened in Minneapolis. I went there. He said it was probably [20:33] not right. I mean, definitely not right. They killed two people. You can keep a safe and secure [20:38] southern border. I believe we have to keep a safe and secure southern border, which is crazy to me [20:42] because my opponent, he voted against border funding when he was in Congress. And now he likes to talk [20:47] about being a tough guy on the border. Those are not the same thing as what ICE is doing. I think we [20:51] can go back to an era like INS when we enforced immigration policy at the edge of the constitution [20:58] and we respected the constitution in doing it. But I also think we need a pathway to citizenship for [21:02] folks who are stuck in limbo right now. You've got this tough guy attitude to immigration that's not [21:06] keeping us safe. In fact, it's terrorizing folks in our streets. It's not funding the southern border, [21:11] which needs to be kept safe. But what it is doing, it's weaponizing an agency of the government [21:16] at the tune of Donald Trump and his goods. All right. Congressman, in the interest of a short [21:20] rebuttal of 15 seconds, he talked about one of your votes when you were in Congress. You know, [21:25] this is really fascinating to me. He has called for open borders, decriminalizing crossing the border, [21:31] giving illegals identification, and allowing them on Medicare. You can't get a worse plan [21:38] than what you hear from Abdul. Go to stopabdul.com. Every one of his deleted tweets and videos are [21:44] there. 15 seconds, doctor. Very educational. 15 seconds, doctor. That's awesome. Good for you. [21:48] Look, at the end of the day, I think we have to have a safe and secure southern border. That's why I [21:52] wouldn't vote against border funding like him. But we also have to obey our constitution. We are a country of [21:58] laws and a country of immigrants. And I think we need a pathway to legal immigration for folks. [22:04] Thank you both. I want to turn now to the war in Iran. You have both indicated you want it to [22:08] come to an end, and we talked about this a few minutes ago. But what does that look like? Dr. [22:12] El-Sayed, can the war in Iran come to an end if the Strait of Hormuz isn't fully open and if Iran has [22:19] the ability to produce a nuclear weapon? You have 60 seconds. It might be old-fashioned, [22:24] but I believe in diplomacy. In fact, diplomacy is what the Obama administration had used to [22:29] negotiate a scenario in Iran where we did not have proliferation of nuclear material. We were at [22:36] a steady state, except for Donald Trump just doesn't like anything that President Obama has done. So he [22:40] decided to rip it up in his first term, and then his second term decided to make war that was completely [22:44] unnecessary. So I do think that we can end the war and we can actually, by peaceful means, [22:49] diplomatically address this challenge. But look, this is what happens when you start wars you never [22:54] should be fighting. We literally taught the Iranian regime that they had a choke on the straight [22:58] hover moose, and now we're living in that reality. But that's what happens when you've got a ridiculous [23:03] leader like Donald Trump, who does not know what he's doing, and jumped into this war for God knows [23:08] what reason. And the whole time, my opponent backstopped it. Win, win, win. Are you winning? Are we [23:13] winning? Is anyone actually winning? That's the kind of policy you're going to get from a guy who wants to be a [23:18] sock puppet for the Trump administration. No thinking, no thought. Whatever Donald Trump says, [23:22] jump. He says, how high? I'm going to give you 10 seconds. And once again, the question, [23:27] can there be an end of the war if the streets is not open and if Iran has the ability to produce a [23:33] nuclear weapon? 10 seconds with a yes or no, please. Yes. And we do that at the edge of diplomacy [23:38] rather than war that's raising our gas prices and our grocery rates. Congressman Rogers, [23:43] same question to you. Both of you have said you'd like to see this war come to an end, [23:47] but if the streets aren't open and if Iran has the ability to possess a nuclear weapon, [23:53] can you have an end of the war 60 seconds? Well, this is why I've called to an end of the war. [23:59] Militarily, they have set back the nuclear program at least 20 years. They've decimated [24:03] their army, navy, their air force. They still have some limited capability to inflict harm on their [24:10] neighbors, so this would be the time to wrap it up. That was the stated intent. But this is, [24:15] I think, the issue that is maybe the most important. My opponent here would not condemn the IRGC, [24:22] which today is hanging two 19-year-old kids for saying that they want freedom in their homeland. [24:29] This is the same IRGC that has killed American troops in Iraq. It has blood on their hands, [24:35] tried a terrorist attack here in the United States. If you can't condemn the IRGC, you have no business in [24:42] the United States Senate. And if you think about why, you know, his supporters funnel money [24:50] from a group that supports the Muslim Brotherhood. This is a huge problem, and that is an ideological [24:57] problem that we cannot allow to walk into the United States. Quickly in 10 seconds, can the war be ended [25:04] if the streets are not open and if Iran can produce a nuclear weapon? Well, no, it can't if they have [25:11] a nuclear weapon. But all of the information is they do not have that capability any longer. So, [25:16] I mean, you're asking a question of a hypothetical. The information that is available says that they've [25:22] been sent back 20 years. So, I just want to say he's been cheerleading this war for the better part of 20 [25:26] years. And I will condemn any, any use of force against a domestic population abroad. That's not [25:34] hard to do. But I also condemn a war we shouldn't be fighting because here we are fighting this stupid [25:38] war because people like him have been pushing for it for 20 years. When you've got an international [25:42] problem, he's got a war for that. That's his approach. Every single situation, Iraq, Iran, [25:46] and what other wars is he going to cheerlead? That is dangerous. We cannot have that in the U.S. [25:50] I'll tell you what's dangerous. This is important. 15 seconds, please. He can't condemn a terrorist act [25:55] that happened on our soil in the state of Michigan. He can't bring himself to condemn. I did condemn it [26:00] and you know it. Oh, you did not. Like, don't make stuff up. Don't make stuff up. You're talking [26:05] about making stuff up. I literally condemned it and you know it. This guy can't condemn it. He can't [26:09] condemn Hamas. He can't condemn the Muslim Brotherhood. He says his home is Egypt. This is all [26:14] starting in my home. We are going to move along. We continue, we can continue this conversation in the [26:19] second half of the show. But he doesn't own a home in Florida. He took it off the market. I don't [26:22] know for why, but he just took it off the market. He owns a home in the United Arab Emirates. [26:25] We're done. Staying in the Middle East. Congressman Rogers, you pledged. [26:28] At least Florida is in the United States. Not in Michigan, my guy. I'd like to be part of the debate, [26:34] too. So let's do this. We'll stay in the Middle East. Congressman Rogers, you have pledged [26:40] unconditional support for Israel's right to defend herself. Is there any action by the Israeli [26:45] government that would cause you not to support sending U.S. military assistance? You have 60 seconds. [26:53] A pretty hypothetical question. I support just staunchly their right to exist, the right to [27:00] exist for the Jewish state, and the right to defend itself in a very difficult neighborhood. [27:06] And if you think about why my opponent is so wrong on all of this, his biggest funders, [27:12] his biggest funders are from a group that supports the Muslim Brotherhood. He gets money from people who [27:19] support openly, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda. His family was even included in those discussions. [27:28] Listen, this is the most important thing that we do when we go back to Washington, [27:32] is keep America safe. I wore the uniform of the United States of America. I was a special agent with [27:38] the FBI to keep America safe. These are the most important issues. The prattling and repetition [27:46] of his argument does not solve the dismantling of terrorist network that America demands. [27:53] Got 10 seconds. Is there anything Israel could do that would lose your support? [27:58] Listen, if they're talking about using nuclear weapons, they would definitely lose my support. [28:02] All right, thank you very much. I've never heard them say that, though. [28:04] Dr. El-Sayed, you have opposed direct U.S. military funding to Israel. But if Israel were attacked [28:11] tomorrow by Iran or another state actor, would you vote to provide defensive weapons necessary [28:17] to protect the Israeli people? Yes or no? And you have 60 seconds to explain. [28:21] I've been absolutely clear. I want our tax dollars spent here to provide schools here. And by here, [28:25] I mean Michigan, not Florida. I want to make sure we've got good schools here and health care here. [28:30] I want to make sure that we are taking care of people here. That is my priority. You know, [28:35] you asked a hypothetical question about being attacked by Iran. But let's be honest about [28:39] what happened here. Israel has pushed us to go to war in Iran. And of course, my colleague, [28:45] who thinks there's a war for everything, went right along with it. And here we are. Israel had clear [28:50] war aims. They wanted us to go to war with them. And their war aims were, what, the annexation of [28:54] southern Lebanon? Ask yourself, are we safer because of that war? He wants unconditional support for a [29:00] foreign government. I want unconditional support for kids in our schools, unconditional support for [29:06] our health care, child care, things that he would vote to defund. So it's just inconsistent to me to [29:11] be running for Senate from Michigan when you're more focused on what's happening to a foreign [29:15] government than you are focused on what's happening to folks right here in Michigan. It's just not [29:20] serious. If there was attack, would you provide defensive weapons for Israel? I don't want our tax [29:26] dollars buying weapons for other countries. I don't know what's so hard about that. That's a no. [29:30] I'll answer the question. Absolutely. He won't. He will not. Matter of fact, [29:35] he would not even support the Iron Dome. I don't want to support a foreign government [29:38] to have our weapons. We cannot do this for every question. Dr. El-Sayed, our next question [29:45] addresses concerns from some in the Jewish community about your position on Israel. A supporter told News [29:52] Nations Leland Vittert at a rally that Israel is a bigger problem or a bigger threat, I should say, [29:58] to the United States than Iran. Leland then asked you which country you consider the greater threat [30:05] to the United States, and here's part of your response. You're going to be a senator. What do you [30:09] view as the biggest threat? I've been more than extremely clear about this. I don't want our tax dollars [30:14] being used to subsidize war abroad. I don't want our tax dollars being used to fund unconditionally [30:19] foreign militaries. I think it's important that we be the first among equals to enforce international [30:24] law against any and every country that breaks it. So this sort of like hypothetical, who's a bigger [30:29] threat is a dumb question. I'm sorry. Dr. El-Sayed, we didn't quite, we got the part that you thought [30:35] it was dumb, but we didn't understand or kind of get to that answer. So I'm going to ask you again [30:42] tonight, who do you think is a bigger threat to the United States, Israel or Iran? You have 60 seconds. [30:46] And again, Rick, I'm just going to say that that's a ridiculous hypothetical because here's what's [30:50] happening right now. Our ostensible ally in Israel has lobbied us to go to war with Iran. We have [30:59] watched as Iran has responded by bombing all kinds of countries in the Middle East and then choking off [31:05] the world's energy supply. So this is a situation in which I don't think we should be apart. I don't [31:11] want to be pushed into war by Israel, and I don't want to be in a war with Iran. I want our money [31:17] spent here to buy schools and health care and child care here. I don't understand why that is [31:22] so inconceivable. Now, I've got a guy to my left over here who thinks that the best use of our money [31:28] is to go fight wars abroad. What has that given us? It's part of the reason why he was in Congress, [31:33] 12 trillion dollars, the national debt blew up because he's never seen a war he didn't want us [31:38] fighting. So I don't consider an ally a country that takes us to wars we don't need to fight, [31:42] and I don't want to be fighting wars we don't need to fight. I just think that makes both of them [31:47] kind of dangerous. I'll ask one last time, Israel or Iran? That's again a ridiculous question. I think [31:54] both of them have proven dangerous in their own way. One at risk of attacking us, one getting us into [31:59] wars. We have no business fighting. Thank you. Congressman Rogers, Axios reported that your [32:04] allies asked AIPAC not to advertise on your behalf, and Axios also reported that you talked with the chair of [32:11] AIPAC, and the next day they discontinued an ad on your behalf. Do you welcome AIPAC's public support [32:17] given that you do support many pro-Israeli positions? You have 60 seconds. Anybody that wants to help my [32:24] campaign stop a guy who can't condemn terrorism in our own country because he's so close to the [32:30] people who are supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? Again, I'll take all of that help. And matter of [32:35] fact, I think he's a little concerned about the two properties he owns, United Arab Emirates. I [32:41] think the other one is Egypt, if I'm not mistaken. Can you correct me? Where's the other one? Yeah, [32:44] no. Uh-huh. Yeah, that's exactly right. He doesn't want to talk about it. $2.7 million in Florida, [32:48] my guy. Yeah, I'll talk about it. You know what? Did you sell your yachts? I never owned a yacht in [32:52] Florida, brother. Oh, really? Where's your yacht? You had two of them. Let me tell you this one thing. [32:58] Today or yesterday was October 7th. This is why you should get absolutely angry. He could not bring himself [33:05] to even acknowledge the pain, the terrorism, the rape, the murders, cutting off of women's breasts, [33:12] putting children in ovens, and killing them in front of their families. Could not even muster. [33:17] So I've condemned that. And he could not even muster. I've condemned that, but I didn't turn [33:21] it into political theater like you just did. He did not. All right, let me tell you this. [33:24] I just need to respond. No, no, no. He's interrupted me for about half of my time. So I'm so sorry, [33:30] I'm not somebody who tries to make political theater out of other people's pain. Your full campaign is [33:34] political theater. And you turned it into political theater. I'm sorry. [33:38] Including putting on a white jacket. Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, [33:43] we're going to take a break from this pleasant conversation. And when we come back, [33:47] we're going to talk about a topic that has been making headlines across the country [33:52] with data centers. First, a reminder, candidates enter the spin room once our debate is over. [33:57] This QR code will take you to our live post debate coverage. We'll be back in 70 seconds. [34:04] Welcome back to everyone watching across the country and news nation. And we welcome the [35:30] candidates back. I want to take a quick aside and tell you that in 30 years of doing debates, [35:36] I've never seen it continue during the commercial, but it did. Let's get right to our next question. [35:41] Data centers are becoming a flashpoint for voters across Michigan. And that's the topic of our next [35:46] question. Congressman Rogers, you said Michigan should quote, take a pause probably on new data [35:52] center development and have supported one year statewide moratorium that places you at odds with [35:58] President Trump, who has tried to accelerate AI and data center development is a one year pause long [36:05] enough. You have 60 seconds. Well, I think you have to get some really important questions answered. [36:10] It needs to be a local decision. They need to have water control systems that you're not using [36:16] more and more water. They need to show up with their power. I've said that they should also 100% of every [36:23] dollar, if a community wants one of these facilities, every every dollar of the generated [36:29] property tax should go to defray the cost of everyone that lives in that municipality dollar for [36:34] dollar. It should go down. There's just so many questions that people need answered. You can't bigfoot [36:40] this. I think you need that time to answer those questions. If people go forward and want one, [36:46] there might be a way to get this done. I will tell you that my opponent here who likes to attack and [36:51] make lots of, you know, accusation is actually invested into the data centers. He's got $100,000 [36:58] in a mutual fund directly invested in the companies that do data centers. So it's really important that we [37:04] have this pause, answer people's questions and make sure a guy like this isn't making the decision on [37:09] this. Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, you've called for public control of AI companies. [37:16] Why should the federal government have an ownership or governing role in private AI? And you can respond [37:22] to the congressman's comments as well. You have 60 seconds. What a joke. I mean, I own mutual funds. [37:27] He's personally invested in the company that controls the real estate for the Saline [37:33] data center. And I think I should ask him if he wants a moratorium, should the construction stop on his [37:39] personal investment? Because I'd love it to. I've been clear we need a terms of engagement. I've [37:43] been clear that we need government that's not bought off by corporations, not bought off by big tech, [37:48] not bought off by the very people who benefit, who have personal investment stake in the companies [37:54] that are driving us to the edge of what the people who are developing this technology say could cause real [37:59] doom, real harm. And look, I think we need people actually understand the technology. I've been very clear [38:05] we need a terms of engagement on the data centers. I've been very clear that we need to put AI under [38:09] democracy. And if the corporations and their CEOs are right that this is going to take nearly 50% of [38:14] our white collar jobs, I think it's important for the public to have a real stake rather than private [38:19] investors to the tune of $2.6 million in the data center put in your backyard alone. I'm going to go to [38:25] you for 30 seconds. I'm going to go to you for 30 seconds and then we're going to move on. [38:29] So this to me is the most important thing, you know, rapid accusations and other things. He had [38:34] a top staffer flee his campaign, talking about how this guy's a manufactured candidate. He watched [38:42] him say one thing to one group and say another thing to another group. This guy is so full of hypocrisy, [38:50] it's just hard to fathom. When he starts going through these things and rattles them off, [38:56] what he's basically telling you is he will say anything to win. And by the way, that's what his [39:02] sister said to him. He would say anything he needed to get elected. And this is all this nonsense that [39:07] he dribbles out there. Mike, you done? You could have showed up to the last debate if you actually [39:11] had things to say. You could have showed up to the third debate that you turned down. Let's be clear. [39:15] So you've got a situation in which this guy, personally invested in AI, doesn't want to talk about AI. [39:20] Instead, he just wants to point to me. But remember what I told you at the very outset, he wants to talk [39:24] about himself. He wants to talk about me. But he doesn't want to talk about you. You who are [39:29] worried about having a data center in your backyard. You who are worried about AI taking your job. You [39:33] who are worried about the doom of AI. He does not want to talk about you because the policies being [39:38] pressed are the ones from Donald Trump and he will not stand up to Donald Trump. Notice Trump saying, [39:42] no breaks on AI, even though we know it's risky. He won't say a thing. [39:45] All right. What I want to talk about is sticking with the next question. [39:49] Technology for a moment. Flock cameras and other information devices have many people worried [39:55] about privacy. Should the federal government put guardrails on these cameras? Dr. El-Sayed, [40:02] you have 60 seconds to answer. Yes, absolutely. But I just, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think [40:07] the idea of being surveilled wherever you are without your consent is a very dangerous thing. Now, [40:12] Mike is going to have a hard time answering this question. I cannot wait to see what he has to [40:16] say because when he was in Congress, he literally told somebody from the stand, [40:20] if you don't know your privacy is being violated, is your privacy really being violated? It's like [40:25] the peeping Tom vote he's going after everywhere. And I'm sure you want it. The question to me is, [40:30] why do we continue to have a situation in which we're watching more and more technology steal more [40:34] and more of our data? The very big tech corporations that are buying his campaigns, [40:38] all those attack ads you're seeing, big tech and big pharma. But the big tech part is really scary [40:43] because you don't know what they have on you. And he said, again, another quote, [40:47] we would love to have just a bit of what Google has on you. Can you imagine that? That guy right [40:52] there. That's what he said. I don't think we should be surveilling people. I think it's a ridiculous [40:56] thing. And yes, I think when people have their privacy violated, yeah, you really did have your [41:00] privacy violated, even if you didn't know it. Congressman, same question. Should the federal [41:04] government put guardrails on this technology? I think local government needs to do this. I'm a big [41:09] believer in the fourth amendment, uh, score that oath to the constitution when I was an FBI agent. [41:15] Protecting a fourth amendment, uh, rights is critically important. I think the states can do [41:20] it. If they're just using it for citizens who have committed no crimes, I would not be for that [41:25] at all. And you know, my opponent just doesn't understand the national security infrastructure. [41:29] So he's trying to jumble it all up on people. But I will tell you this, those, those programs [41:35] were really, really important in catching people who were suspected of terrorists and being terrorist, [41:42] uh, committing a terrorist act. That's really, really important. And why would that bother you? [41:47] Well, if you have someone in your family that might be on the, are you going to go ahead and say that [41:51] I'm, I'm a, go ahead and say it. No, I'm going to say, no, did you not have family? [41:55] You've been tiptoeing around the whole time. Just say it. No, I haven't been tiptoeing it. [41:58] Do you know why? Do you know why? It's because of your policies, because of your policies, [42:02] that, that literally use, use surveillance, use surveillance. So I'm just saying, if you want to [42:07] come out and say something, go ahead and say it. No, no, well, let's do this. All right, let's, [42:10] let's, let's open up this can of worms. I'll give you an, I'll tell you what my mother did. [42:14] She was a, a, a small, uh, you go after my mom. I'm not going after your mom. What your mom was [42:20] working at. I was going off to that organization that was indicted for funneling money to Al Qaeda. [42:25] Look, that's your mom. My mom worked at a law, smoke, a chamber of commerce. I'll put my mom [42:30] up any day for that. All right. We'll give you a rebuttal, and we're moving away from this subject. [42:35] He wants this to be about anything but his own record. He's okay if the federal government [42:39] can't talk about his record. He's okay if the federal government spies on you, [42:41] but he wants to make this about anybody else. Going after my mom, my sister, got nothing to [42:45] actually say about me. I'm a dad and a doctor. I'm trying to get money out of politics, [42:49] put money in your pocket, pass Medicare for all. He wants to take every corporate dollar he can [42:53] to jump hoops for Donald Trump. There you go. We have another viewer question. Amber [42:57] Kriska is back with that question. Our next question is from William Bush. [43:02] His focus is on Social Security and whether it will still exist. [43:08] If you were elected, the Social Security Trust Fund is predicted to become insolvent [43:13] during your term in office. There's no more kicking the can down the road. Can you please tell me [43:19] two specific things you intend to propose or support in order to keep the program solvent? [43:27] We thank him for that question. We're going to put a little finer point on it, [43:30] knowing that Social Security is going to be in trouble and it's a safety net for so many people. [43:36] I'm going to give you some choices or you may come up with your own, but which alternative would [43:40] you propose? Higher payroll taxes, taking the cap off, eliminating the cap on income, [43:45] a higher retirement age or lower scheduled benefits? You have 60 seconds. [43:50] Well, I think there's probably more options than that. I will tell you this, [43:53] my family counts on Social Security. I had a brother that was disabled on disabled Social [43:59] Security, really, really important for their family. My parents counted on it for their retirement. [44:04] My in-laws are currently counting on Social Security. We cannot, what's happened is a scheduled 22% [44:11] cut in 2032. Cannot let that happen. I think this has to be a bipartisan solution. I'd propose that [44:18] committee, put them in a room, lock the doors and say, don't come out until we have a real solution [44:24] that can get bipartisan support. The other thing, and I tried this early on in my congressional career, [44:30] to say any money that the federal government borrows out of the Social Security Fund, which I think is [44:35] wrong, has to get paid back first at the next fiscal year. And what that would do is start to [44:41] measure and tamp down other spending at the expense of Social Security. [44:45] Dr. Al-Sayed, same thing. What alternative would you propose to support to close that gap? Higher [44:52] payroll taxes, eliminating the income cap, a higher retirement age, or lower scheduled benefits? You have [44:59] 60 seconds. I think the answer is obvious here. We should eliminate the cap, right? It's only fair that [45:05] the rich should pay their fair share. People need and deserve Social Security. Now, take one step further. [45:09] I think it's ridiculous that you get Social Security taken off your paycheck every single month, [45:14] only to have to pay taxes on Social Security once it actually kicks in. I think we need to eliminate [45:19] that tax. And the reality of it is that Republicans, MAGA, all the eras, whether it was the neocon era [45:24] that he was a part of, or the MAGA era that he wants to be a part of, they've been against Social [45:28] Security for a long time. Donald Trump has said very clearly that he does not believe that this is [45:33] sustainable or should be something that we continue to invest in. Instead, he wants money for wars that [45:37] people like Mike Rogers are perfectly happy to go and fight. So look, I think that this is a critical [45:43] thing. We have to get at it. I actually think, though, that the question for us is this, [45:47] do you elect a U.S. Senator in Michigan who wants to fight the Trump agenda, [45:52] or do you elect a U.S. Senator in Michigan who literally said that he answered the call from [45:56] Donald Trump and is therefore running? Who is going to actually get to work to save Social Security? [46:01] To another topic now, you both say Michigan needs substantially more housing. Your approaches [46:07] are different. Dr. El-Sayed, you say America needs a building boom. But you additionally want [46:13] government action against large corporate investors and speculators buying housing. What type of action [46:20] do you want to see happen in Congress towards this 60 seconds? Yeah, I just don't think big corporations [46:25] should be able to buy housing and speculate on it. I don't think that that is legit. It takes housing [46:31] stock off the market and creates a situation in which it increases the price of housing for folks [46:36] who would be first-time homeowners. I also think we just need to build a whole lot more. We need to [46:41] address a lot of the red tape that has made it very difficult for folks to get those projects zoned [46:47] and licensed. But I also want to take on Airbnb and Verbo. Now, you know, I don't know what Mike intends to [46:51] do with his house in Florida, but you know, he said that he wants to rent it out, which means that he [46:56] can do the Airbnb and Verbo this thing. So look, what Airbnb and Verbo has done is allowed very rich [47:02] people to buy excess housing and then rent it on a market that artificially inflates the price of [47:08] housing for everybody else. And I just think that we need to make sure that Airbnb and Verbo pay [47:11] their fair share. I also think we need a renter's bill of rights to enable renters to have those rights [47:16] in case he decides to rent to somebody and decides to be a slum landlord. So I just think it's important [47:20] to put basic curbing on the power of big corporations in our lives. Congressman, [47:26] your housing message is, quote, train more builders and fire more bureaucrats. I want you to explain [47:32] that. And also, would you support prohibiting large investment firms and of buying thousands of [47:38] single family homes? You have 60 seconds. Yeah, this whole affordability issue is absolutely [47:42] critical to answer this problem. If you go to stop Abdul.com, you can see all of the costs that my [47:49] opponent has talked about. He deleted it all. He didn't want you to see it. We found it. News for [47:54] you. You can see it at stop Abdul.com. You can see the exact cost he's trying to impose. So the last [48:00] eight years, we've had about $25,000 in new regulatory costs for every house. For every $1,000, you increase [48:07] the value of that house or the cost of that house. 3,200 Michigan citizens can't afford that house. We have to [48:15] tamp down on those regulatory environments. You know, I did the education savings plans for Michigan, [48:20] about 400,000 people enjoying those plans here in the state today. And what we want to do is I want [48:26] to make sure that they have the same kind of thing for new homeowners to save tax-free, have your boss [48:31] kick in tax-free, have your grandma kick in tax-free, so you get to that 20%. You do that, you reduce the [48:40] regulation, you increase the ability for them to be able to afford that down payment. It gets people [48:46] into the house. We're going to move on to a subject that we could have talked about for the last 40 [48:51] years, although the number keeps getting higher, and that's the federal debt. It's now more than $40 [48:58] trillion. Interest rates are high, investors are issuing warnings, and first-time homebuyers are having a [49:06] hard time getting into the market. Congressman Rogers, can you tell voters one significant spending [49:12] cut or tax change or entitlement reform that you would support, even if it's politically unpopular, [49:19] to start reducing that debt? You have 60 seconds. So I was the chairman of the House Intelligence [49:24] Committee in the United States Congress at the time of Iraq and Afghanistan. At that time, Russia was [49:29] trying to get nuclear, excuse me, torpedoes. China was going after us in space. It was a pretty precarious [49:35] time for the country. I took a look at that budget. I worked in a bipartisan way with my [49:40] ranking Democrat. We sat down over the course of the summer, and we cut out $11 billion of a $78 [49:46] billion budget. That just wasn't done back then. It was never done. Then we made sure that that money [49:52] didn't get added in in the six years that followed our cut in that budget. I think there is fat and [49:58] waste in every department, and I put the Department of Defense in there as well. I think if you go after the [50:04] fraud, the fraud numbers now are about $500 billion, and you go after waste in each one of these [50:10] departments like I have done in a bipartisan way, I think you can get that math down to a good place [50:16] pretty quickly. Dr. El-Sayed, it seems something has to change. Can you point to a significant [50:22] spending cut or entitlement reform or tax change that you would support even if it's not politically [50:29] popular? You have 60 seconds. Tax, billionaire, wealth. It's that simple. We could return $4.6 [50:35] trillion simply by taxing billionaires. Look, I don't know about anybody. He's going to get [50:40] precious about billionaires here in a second. But yeah, I don't think it's important for a [50:43] billionaire to make a second billion. I think it's more important for the average person to be able [50:46] to make their first $100,000. If you could think about what you could do with $4.6 trillion back to our [50:53] federal budget, think about what it would mean for things like health care, things like child care. [50:58] And the reality of it is that while my colleague was in Congress for 14 years, they accrued a $12 [51:05] trillion deficit, $12 trillion. The $40 trillion we have, $12 trillion alone came while he was in [51:11] Congress. So he's going to talk a big game about balancing budgets. It didn't really quite do that, [51:15] did we? Why? Because every time his party's in power, we do two things. We cut taxes for the richest [51:20] people and we go to war. And that's exactly what Donald Trump has just done with the one big ugly [51:25] bill and the Iran war, and he's backstopped the entire thing. So what do you think you're going [51:29] to get with him? More deficit, more debt, only to tell us we can't have health care. [51:33] I'll give you 30 seconds. Yeah, this is the guy. He just does not want to explain what his proposals [51:37] are. That's why he does this. Really pretty talk. You learn that in Oxford, I guess, how to talk pretty. [51:42] But I will tell you what, it's dangerous. They're going to take away your personal health care, [51:47] and the new cost is $20,000 in new taxes per family. Oh, and by the way, you have to answer [51:53] to the government. Oh, and by the way, he supports the death panels that Canada implemented. Do you [51:58] want the government making those decisions at a more expensive cost and less access? So, well, [52:03] I'm not done yet. You are, because we're at the end of the show. We're going to run out of time. 30 [52:07] seconds for you, Dr. Else. Yeah, in case I wasn't clear, tax, billionaire, wealth. Look, I actually went to, [52:12] I learned that at Michigan where I actually went to school. I don't just parade around in the Block M. [52:16] The reality of it is that we can do this. It's just math. More money in, less money out. So, [52:22] ask yourself whether or not this war is good for you. This guy voted to keep prescription drug prices [52:27] high. He's in thrall to all the corporations that have nickel and dimed you. $64,000 alone from DTE. [52:32] Not true? Not true? Not true. Not true. We've got to stay on time. We're getting our final question, [52:36] and here it is. We have had a number of people ask questions from viewers and expressing concern about [52:43] the divide between right and left. So, starting with you, Dr. El-Sayed, who do you work for? Can [52:49] you name one Trump policy you would have voted for because you believe it was right for Michigan? [52:55] You have 60 seconds. I work for the people of the state of Michigan. I have never taken a dime [53:00] from a corporation to run a campaign. This guy took more money from corporate super PACs than anybody in [53:07] the Michigan delegation when he was in Congress. Called himself the champion of Big Pharma. I don't [53:11] work for them. I don't work for Big Insurance, who's also bottom-off. I don't work for Big Tech, [53:14] who's bottom-off. I don't work for DTE, who's also bottom-off. I work for the people. And I believe, [53:20] as such, we have a responsibility to work with anybody who is going to champion the issues that [53:25] people have. Actually, that policy that you asked me about, Rick, about the question of whether or not we [53:30] should have corporate speculators buying housing, that's something that Donald Trump seemed to agree with me [53:34] with. Congressional stock trading, something he's done. Also, Donald Trump agreed with me with. [53:39] I don't own personal stock. I'm not trying to make myself rich off of my job in public service. [53:45] This guy has done exactly that. $14 million. That's what he made when he left Congress doing [53:51] the work for the corporations he had just previously been regulating, who had bought [53:54] them off when he was in Congress in the first place. We have to go 60 seconds. This is so offensive [53:58] to me. This is incredible. And it is not the truth. And you know it's not the truth. Like I said, [54:04] interrupt. You're like that AI chat bot that's a little glitchy. You just say it over and over, [54:09] and you make accusations for a guy that... It's your record, my guy. You did it. [54:14] No, I did not. Never. I never traded a stock in the Congress. $64,000 from DTE. Did you or did you [54:18] not take it? Oh my gosh. Did you or did you not? So that means you're bought off by George Soares' [54:23] family. That means that you're bought off by Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda. Those people who are [54:29] supporting you, pour that money into your campaign. You begged Chuck Schumer. Begged Chuck [54:35] Schumer. Matter of fact, you had to sneak by the trash cans in the back of the building to beg for [54:40] that money. So here's the guy to send money out of politics until it gets to shove into his pocket. [54:45] That tells you, that tells you, that absolutely tells you who he is. The guy on his staff that [54:52] said he will say anything to get elected and tell you one thing one time and another the next time, [54:57] he's a manufactured candidate. We've come to the end of our discussion. Thank you both very [55:01] much. You have 30 seconds to wrap up our debate beginning with you, Dr. El-Sayed, and you must stay [55:07] on time. 30 seconds. Look, I told you what this debate was going to be. Him pointing at me and saying [55:12] all kinds of foreign names or him talking about himself. And I told you, I'm interested in you. [55:18] I understand that gas is too expensive. Groceries are unaffordable. I understand that it's really hard [55:23] to see a doctor, and I want to solve that. And the reason we haven't is because we've got corporate [55:27] politicians who are going to do the bidding of people like Donald Trump, the war in Iran, [55:31] the tariff war, all the money he's taken from pharma. Ask yourself if that's helped you. [55:35] I believe in money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all. 30 seconds, Congress. [55:39] We cannot afford Abdul, and we cannot risk his ideology. Think about what he's proposing. The [55:46] largest, most massive tax increase in the history, taking over your private health insurance and [55:52] giving it to the government. Huge increases in your energy costs, that 30% alone in utilities. It's a [56:00] carbon tax that affects everything that you buy. I'm Mike Rogers, United States Army officer, FBI agent. [56:07] Don't listen to this guy. I will make and fight for a better Michigan. [56:12] Thank you, candidates. I appreciate you being here. Thanks to NewsNation, our broadcast partners, [56:17] and to all of you who are watching. Don't forget to go to Wood TV Plus for the spin room right now [56:23] for more on tonight's debate, including reaction from the candidates. And the final word is good night [56:29] from Grand Rapids. Thank you. Good luck.