Melania Trump's surprise news conference; Diddy back in court — Jesse Weber Live Full Episode 4/9

[0:05] Hey, everybody, and welcome to Jesse Weber Live. [0:07] So all eyes are still on the Middle East to see if this fragile U.S.-Iran ceasefire is going to stand, [0:13] especially since there are reports of deadly missile fire between Israel and Lebanon, [0:18] which can threaten to derail the ceasefire agreement. [0:21] And remember, this all sparks new questions about whether President Trump [0:24] and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are still in lockstep, [0:28] or are they headed down different paths? [0:30] President Trump lashed out at Iran today, saying they are doing a, quote, [0:33] very poor job, unquote, of allowing oil to go through the Strait of Vormuz. [0:38] And remember, that is a key part of the ceasefire terms. [0:42] Also, by the way, at the White House, I don't know, this is surprising. [0:45] First Lady Melania Trump holding a rare news conference. Take a look. [0:50] I am not Epstein's victim. Epstein did not introduce me to Donald Trump. [0:59] So, look, I got to ask, what prompted the First Lady, who's usually a very private person, [1:03] to get in front of the cameras, to talk about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal today? [1:08] Well, we're going to have the latest. [1:09] We're going to have the answers live from Washington in just a minute, but also ahead tonight. [1:13] Diddy. Diddy. [1:14] Bet you didn't think you'd be hearing his name again so soon. [1:17] Well, attorneys for Sean Diddy Combs back in federal court today. [1:21] This was big because they were arguing that his sentence was too harsh, [1:25] that his convictions should be thrown out, that he should be resentenced. [1:28] Could he get out of prison sooner? It's interesting arguments. [1:30] And not only are we going to tackle this from the legal side with attorney Mark Garagos, [1:34] but guess what? [1:35] We're bringing on, in just a few minutes, the Punisher, [1:38] the exotic dancer who testified in Diddy's trial. [1:42] I want his perspective on this. [1:43] Also, more mystery in the Bahamas. [1:45] This story, really, really interesting. [1:47] The husband, who said that he watched his wife fall overboard from their boat and was swept away, [1:52] now under arrest. [1:54] So we got on somebody, we're doing it a little bit differently. [1:56] We got on somebody who was accused of killing his 90-day fiancée, or attempting to kill her. [2:03] I want his perspective. [2:05] Attempting to kill her. [2:06] I've got to make that clear. [2:07] So it's an interesting perspective there because there's a difference between the court of law [2:11] and the court of public opinion when we talk about this. [2:13] Okay. [2:14] Now, also, countdown to splashdown. [2:16] Countdown to splashdown is on. [2:18] I like that. [2:18] The astronauts, who just went to the moon and back, gearing up for their homecoming tomorrow night. [2:26] I've actually been thinking about entry since April 3rd, 2023, when we got assigned to this mission. [2:32] We have to get back. [2:33] There's so much data that you've seen already, but all the good stuff is coming back with us. [2:37] And we're also going to be gearing up, too. [2:42] You're going to see the Artemis astronauts return right here on News Nation tomorrow night. [2:49] We're going to have all of it here. [2:50] But right now, we've got new developments in the Middle East. [2:54] So I want to talk about it, if we can, because there's this U.S. and Iran, right? [2:58] This truce is in doubt. [3:00] And missiles continue to fly in the Gulf. [3:03] Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that he's authorized direct negotiations with Lebanon. [3:09] But in the meantime, he says there's no ceasefire with that country. [3:14] And Israel is going to continue to strike Hezbollah. [3:18] Now, that statement comes, as President Trump reportedly said, that Netanyahu would ease up on striking Lebanon. [3:28] So we're going to be seeing maybe more to that. [3:31] But as we said, the missile fire in the Gulf region, it hasn't stopped. [3:36] It's not only Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon trading fire, but Kuwait briefly coming under attack by drones today. [3:43] But the country's army said that air defenses, they work to intercept that drones. [3:48] And also, we got late word that Kuwait says it was Iran and its proxies that were behind this attack. [3:55] Now, to the other threat to the ceasefire, you know what I'm talking about, Iran's chokehold on the Strait of Hormuz. [4:00] Not much is getting through. [4:02] But for the ships that are trying, Iran announcing alternative routes for the strait, telling vessels they have to use a new map for navigation because there's a risk, and you see it right there, of anti-ship mines in that main traffic zone. [4:15] So you can see these new routes that are running north of the restricted hazardous area in different directions. [4:21] So for all the latest headlines, I want to get right now to NewsNation's Kelly Meyer, who's live in Washington. [4:26] Kelly, good to see you. [4:27] I want to start with Israel-Lebanon, this battle. [4:29] Obviously, we're wondering how this could affect the U.S.-Iran ceasefire. [4:33] We got negotiation talks coming up. [4:35] President Trump saying he's optimistic. [4:37] But what else are you hearing from the White House in terms of how they feel with respect to this? [4:43] Yeah, and this is something that President Trump is paying close attention to. [4:48] We know that his vice president is heading there for talks this weekend, but we don't really know how those are going to go or if they're even going to happen. [4:57] You know, I know we were talking last night about taking this not only day by day but minute by minute because there was even a post from the president tonight saying about the strait of Hormuz, about Iran charging a toll for the tankers going through, that that wasn't what they agreed to, even though the president the other day said it was going to be a joint venture between the U.S. and Iran to charge a toll, and it would be a, quote, beautiful thing. [5:17] But now that Iran seems to be doing that on their own, he's saying that that better not be happening. [5:23] So there's that part of it. [5:24] Then there's the part that you mentioned about Lebanon, that Iran, Pakistan say that that should be part of the ceasefire, and they might not come to the table until that happens. [5:34] That's why you're seeing those discussions with the U.S. and Israel. [5:37] A State Department official also telling me there's going to be talks about that portion of the ceasefire in D.C. at the State Department next week. [5:45] But the talks are, again, this Saturday, and a lot of these issues all kind of are, you know, dominoing into one, and we don't know exactly what might happen. [5:55] Yeah, and what is Iran saying about this as we're going into the weekend? [5:58] So Iran is definitely putting out some rhetoric that is skeptical. [6:05] They're saying that if the U.S. wants to have Netanyahu, as they say, kill the diplomacy, that's their choice. [6:12] So they're saying that this could be a way that kind of shuts down the talks potentially between the U.S. and Iran. [6:21] We're also seeing some messages from Iran's new supreme leader saying that there would be retaliation for this war. [6:26] So there's that question over whether or not Iran wants to come to the table and work with the U.S. [6:31] after the U.S. just took out many of their facilities and have been bombing them for the past five weeks or so. [6:38] I've got to switch gears. [6:39] I've got to switch gears because I will tell you, Kelly, I wasn't expecting Melania Trump's news conference today about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. [6:48] First, what did the First Lady say? [6:50] And you know I'm going to have to ask this. [6:52] Out of all times, why now? [6:53] It's a good question, and we still don't really know why now. [6:59] Many of us were asking that same question at the White House today when this came out. [7:02] You know, I was hearing from some reporters that we were hearing about this event Melania was doing today, the remarks she'd be giving. [7:07] And there was this tip that someone in the office said, you know, it's going to be a big announcement. [7:11] There's going to be international headlines. [7:13] But, you know, people say that about announcements. [7:15] You don't know what it might be. [7:16] But then this happened, and we didn't expect it to be about Epstein. [7:19] She hasn't spoken publicly about Epstein, and we don't know if she chose now. [7:23] There's rumors that maybe it's to get ahead of a story. [7:26] But we don't know for sure. [7:27] Her office is saying that she was sick of the lies and she wanted to speak. [7:31] And then she also had this message for Congress. [7:33] Listen to this. [7:34] I call on Congress to provide the women who have been victimized by Epstein with a public hearing specifically centered around the survivors. [7:48] Give these victims their opportunity to testify under oath in front of Congress with the power of sworn testimony. [8:00] Now, the Epstein survivors were not happy with Melania's remarks today. [8:04] They said that she was shifting the burden onto the survivors and the attention away from Pam Bondi. [8:10] They wrote in their statement, quote, survivors have done their part. [8:13] Now it's time for those in power to do theirs. [8:16] Kelly, we've got 15 seconds. [8:17] Real quick, did the president, her husband, know that she was going to say this today? [8:21] That's another interesting part of all of this because the president himself in a phone call today said that he didn't know about it. [8:29] But then the first lady's office also telling Libby Dean that the West Wing was aware. [8:33] So a lot of questions around that. [8:35] A lot of questions. [8:36] All right. [8:36] Interesting. [8:37] We'll see what happens from it. [8:38] Kelly Meyer, always good to see you. [8:39] Thanks so much. [8:40] Okay. [8:40] I got to turn to something that a lot of people are talking about. [8:43] You probably saw it. [8:44] Draft registration. [8:46] Probably heard a lot about it this week. [8:48] And if you've seen the headlines and you've seen the think pieces that I have, you know it sounds serious. [8:52] Serious like every single able-bodied American male is about to be shipped off to war. [8:56] That's the idea, right? [8:58] And whenever anything sounds that extreme, that urgent, that fear-driven, you know we need to put it into context. [9:05] We need to explain it. [9:06] And that means it is time for something that we like to call on this show, explain it to me like I'm a six-year-old. [9:12] Okay. [9:12] So here we go. [9:13] Here's a way to think about this. [9:15] Draft registration is like a big list in case there's an emergency. [9:18] That list doesn't mean that anybody's in trouble. [9:21] It doesn't mean something is happening. [9:23] It just means they know who's there. [9:25] Now, the U.S. hasn't had a military draft since 1973. [9:29] But by law, most men 18 to 25 already have to be on a list called the Selective Service, usually within 30 days of turning 18. [9:36] And that includes, by the way, male immigrants. [9:39] So right now, you just sign up yourself. [9:41] So what's the news? [9:42] Why is everybody talking about it? [9:43] Well, there may be a change as soon as December, and that is that the government would just add you automatically using existing data. [9:52] So no form, no extra step. [9:54] You're just on the list. [9:55] It's a way to streamline it. [9:57] Congress already approved that change in the 2026 defense bill. [10:01] But here's the key. [10:02] That doesn't create a military draft. [10:04] For a draft to actually happen, Congress would have to pass a new law or new piece of authorize it, and the president would have to sign it. [10:12] Now, to be clear, this hasn't happened, and even White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said a draft is, quote, not part of the current plan. [10:20] So what is this, really? [10:22] What are we talking about? [10:22] Basically, it's just a more complete list. [10:24] Right now, some people don't bother registering, despite, by the way, the penalties if you don't. [10:29] And this just makes sure that everyone who's supposed to be on the list is. [10:33] So the same rules, just automatic, and even if a draft ever did happen, there would be more steps. [10:39] There would be a lottery, exemptions, conscientious objector status. [10:43] None of that is happening right now. [10:45] So if December sounds like a deadline to go to war, just take a breath, okay? [10:51] No one is being sent anywhere right now. [10:53] It's not a military draft. [10:54] It's just a list. [10:55] Okay, now, it is no surprise that a high-profile celebrity like Sean Diddy Combs would try to appeal his conviction. [11:04] Plenty have done it before, but you know what is surprising? [11:07] The argument his lawyers put before a three-judge panel as to why he should be released from his 50-month sentence and freed immediately. [11:15] In a filing, they say his infamous freak-off tape showing sexual encounters involving his girlfriends and male sex workers, they argue, were voyeurism and amateur pornography, conduct that's protected by the First Amendment. [11:27] Here's the twist, though. [11:28] That wasn't even the main issue in court today. [11:30] It all came down to this. [11:33] Whether the judge appropriately punished Sean Combs by potentially using evidence and conduct about the crimes he was acquitted of in determining his sentence for the crimes he was convicted of. [11:44] Remember, Combs was convicted of two Mann Act violations, with a jury finding he transported sex workers and his girlfriends across state lines for drug-fueled parties that he dubbed as freak-offs. [11:55] But he was acquitted of the more serious charges of racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking. [12:01] And it's those charges, the ones the jury said not guilty on, that his attorneys say the judge relied on to hand down a longer sentence. [12:08] A sentence, they say, goes way past how others have been sentenced in the past. [12:13] But prosecutors pushed back, arguing the judge followed the law, and that much of what drove the sentence didn't rely on acquitted conduct at all. [12:22] Now, the appeals judges, they pushed, pressed both sides. [12:26] Ultimately, the panel didn't rule today. [12:28] It could be weeks before we get an answer, which could be essentially throwing the convictions out, or even directing Combs to be resentenced. [12:35] Or maybe everything stays the way that it is. [12:37] Now, we're going to dive into the legal side of things in just a moment. [12:40] But first, the question is, were these freak-offs really just amateur pornography? [12:44] My next guest was there. [12:46] Sheree the Punisher Hayes, an exotic dancer, former sex worker who testified in Sean Combs' trial that he was hired by Combs and Cassie Ventura multiple times. [12:56] He is also the author of the book, In Search of Freezer Meat. [12:59] Sheree joins me now. [13:02] No one, I used to do trademark work. [13:04] I don't think anybody's going to come up with that title. [13:07] Yeah, I tried to get my own lane. [13:09] So, I'm happy to have you on. [13:11] As I'm listening to this argument, I was thinking, who would know better whether or not this was just, you know, amateur pornography, whether or not it was harmless? [13:19] You might. [13:20] You're listening to that argument. [13:21] It wasn't presented in Corte, it was in the filings. [13:23] Your thoughts on that? [13:24] Was it amateur pornography? [13:24] Well, when I look back to it, it was a very choreographed, kind of streamlined scenario. [13:31] And there was a lot of focus on the lighting, body positions. [13:36] And I think I was not aware that I was filmed. [13:40] I found that after the fact. [13:42] But I can see where it was definitely something that was set up to be kind of captured in a certain way. [13:49] So, it might be some credence to that. [13:51] When you hear the way it's described today, when you hear the way it was described at trial, do you feel like a victim? [13:56] Do you feel like this was a crime? [13:58] So, I don't. [14:00] In terms of my interactions, you know, with all the details coming out, it almost sounds embarrassing to say. [14:08] But it was something as a guy interacting with this beautiful woman for thousands of dollars. [14:14] It was something I was, like, almost proud of in terms of, like, bragging rights with the buddies, you know. [14:19] It was really shocking to me when all of the allegations came out and it became such a bigger thing. [14:25] But I cannot look back and say any of my interactions because nothing felt uncomfortable in regards to her energy, the energy that I received in interacting that made me feel like anything that, if there was no allegations, it would be something I wouldn't think twice of. [14:41] Look, I'm going to get into the law on this in a minute with Mark Aragos. [14:44] But, essentially, generally speaking, the way the argument broke down today is how serious is it what he was convicted of, right? [14:51] I mean, the defense would say, you know, yeah, these are crimes, but you look at other people who were convicted of it, they didn't get this kind of prison time. [15:00] It's not racketeering. [15:01] It's not sex trafficking. [15:03] It's not an egregious kind of crime. [15:06] Whereas the prosecution was saying, no, this was really bad. [15:09] This happened multiple times. [15:10] There were elements of violence. [15:12] There were elements of drugs. [15:13] You will listen to the arguments today, not even getting into the law, but just listening to it. [15:19] How serious do you think it is what he ended up being convicted of? [15:22] How serious do you think it is these freak-offs, these hotel nights? [15:26] Honestly, man, I don't think it's serious at all. [15:29] Really? [15:29] I think everything was overblown. [15:32] My interactions, you know, as I testified to, I didn't see any signs of distress. [15:38] And then in the interim, since the trial, I've actually spoke to other guys that were involved in the actions and parts of it. [15:46] And we all kind of have the same experience. [15:49] You know, nothing that we can point blank see as it being anything more than a couple having fun in a kind of kink type of way. [15:58] But not anything that I could even begin to say that I saw a crime or anything that warrants these type of charges. [16:06] So let me ask you this. [16:08] If this panel says, you know what, he shouldn't have been sentenced to this, I think he should be released. [16:14] Or, you know what, send it back down. [16:16] He gets resentenced, let's say, to time served. [16:18] Let's say his convictions get thrown out. [16:20] Let's say Sean Diddy Combs becomes a free man before April 2028. [16:26] How would you feel? [16:26] I would feel it's warranted. [16:29] I mean, I actually, you know, I was actually at the sentence hearing and I was shocked that he was not released with time served and even more blown away when I heard 50 months. [16:40] I just, you know, there were precedent cases thrown out. [16:44] There were people who were actually pimps that were, that made millions of dollars. [16:50] And in their convictions, they got 25 months, 27 months. [16:54] So I was really, like, completely confused when I saw 50 months associated with his sentence. [17:02] You know Sean Combs is facing litigation. [17:04] You heard people testifying against him at trial. [17:07] To those who say, Mr. Hayes, I disagree with you. [17:09] I feel like a victim. [17:11] I feel what he did was a crime. [17:12] I feel like I was victimized by what he did. [17:15] What would be your answer to them who say, no, I think 50 months is appropriate? [17:19] Well, what my answer to them is, I'm going to look at it strictly on the precedents and strictly on what he's convicted of. [17:28] And when you talk about the Mann Act, which is transportation and prostitution, and there's no precedent where if anybody got 50 months or even half of that, half of that is the norm in extreme cases, [17:41] I'm sorry is somebody who any of us can be in a scenario where something happens in our life and we have a court deciding our future. [17:51] And precedents are there for a reason. [17:53] And for a guy to get an excessive amount of time for a crime that people get much lesser penalties is just unfair. [18:02] And I'm speaking on the fairness of it. [18:04] I'm not trying to disparage anybody's experience. [18:05] But precedents are there for a reason. [18:08] Well, listen, you have a firsthand account of this. [18:10] I wanted to have you on. [18:12] This is a big development. [18:13] I'm going to go into the legal side in a minute. [18:14] But Trey Hayes, thanks for coming on, making your Jesse Weber Live debut. [18:18] Appreciate it. [18:19] I appreciate it. [18:19] Thanks for having me. [18:20] Good luck on the book. [18:20] Thank you, man. [18:21] All right, coming up. [18:22] So again, the legal fight that could decide Diddy's future. [18:25] Did the judge sentence him for the crimes the jury says he didn't commit? [18:29] And why didn't his lawyers, by the way, lean into that amateur pornography argument today? [18:34] It really didn't come up. [18:35] Legendary criminal defense attorney Mark Garagos is going to join me on all of that next. [18:40] Okay, so we're back discussing how Sean Diddy Combs' legal team went to bat for him today [18:53] and tried to convince a panel of judges that his 15-month sentence should be thrown out or reduced. [18:58] He's currently set to be released in April of 2028. [19:01] The question is, could he get out sooner? [19:02] Because they argue the judge that sentenced him last summer relied on conduct that the jury acquitted him of. [19:08] acquitted him of, like the alleged domestic violence against his ex-girlfriends, coercive conduct, drug use. [19:15] Prosecutors argue, look, the judge followed the law. [19:18] That's all that he did. [19:19] And the appeals judges, they grilled both sides. [19:22] Still haven't landed on a ruling. [19:23] That's not surprising. [19:24] But again, this could decide whether Diddy gets released early, maybe the conviction's thrown out. [19:28] So did the judge follow the law here or go too far? [19:32] Was there anything from what we heard in oral arguments that gave us a clue? [19:36] So I want to go right now to one of the sharpest legal minds I know. [19:39] Mark Aragos is a high-profile criminal defense attorney, friend of the show. [19:42] He's also a co-host of the podcast Reasonable Doubt and Two Angry Men. [19:46] Great to see you. [19:46] Thanks for taking the time. [19:47] Before we even get into the main legal issue that was discussed today, [19:50] I've got to say, the most heated, head-turning moment, argument, [19:55] was this amateur pornography claim from the filings. [19:57] But they didn't even talk about it in court today. [20:00] I was curious why not. [20:01] Is that a sign that this argument really isn't being taken seriously, that it's not strong? [20:07] I don't know that I would say that. [20:10] But what, if you listen to the whole arguments, and I did, [20:14] what ended up, I think, distilled down was this idea of acquitted conduct. [20:21] And that is, for those who aren't in the weeds, there are sentencing guidelines. [20:26] The guidelines used to be mandatory in years ago. [20:30] So now they're advisory, but most judges still, when I say they're advisory, [20:35] it's like blowing up dynamite to get a judge to move out of the guidelines. [20:41] And so the judge in this case, what did he did sentence him lower than the guidelines. [20:47] But what they were complaining about, and the defense was complaining about, [20:51] is that they used acquitted conduct, meaning he was found not guilty. [20:56] They wanted to use elements of the not guilty to enhance his sentence as relevant conduct. [21:04] Why is that important? [21:05] Because this, as far as anybody can tell, and these are three of the sharpest judges in the circuit court. [21:12] This is the court above the district court. [21:15] These judges said, we don't have any guidance here. [21:17] This is the first time we've been faced directly with this kind of crystallization of acquitted conduct being used. [21:26] And then the back and forth was amazing. [21:29] I mean, Judge Nardini came out of the gate, and he was grilling Alexandra Shapiro, [21:35] who's probably one of the best appellate lawyers next to Cliff Gardner or with Cliff Gardner around. [21:39] Combs' defense attorney. Combs' defense attorney, by the way. [21:42] Combs' appellate defense lawyer also was on the trial team. [21:45] And they were going back and forth, and I said, wow, I don't know how this is. [21:50] But then you could tell Judge Baker seemed to be very sympathetic to the arguments. [21:55] Judge, the remaining judge, I couldn't really read. [21:59] When Christy Slavik, who was the prosecutor, was also a trial prosecutor in the U.S. Attorney's Office, [22:05] they generally argue their own cases. She was very good. She got up there. [22:10] I think her only misstep is she compared one of these things to, hey, Judge, this is like a pizza, [22:17] and with that we're only talking about one slice of the pizza. [22:21] And I think that even Judge Nardini at one point commented, you know, I don't follow this analogy. [22:27] And I was laughing. It's like the prosecutor needs to eat the whole pizza. [22:32] Look, they made the point. They said to the prosecution, you kind of put this charge that he was convicted of to the side. [22:38] It was kind of like a sideshow because you were so focused on racketeering and sex trafficking. [22:42] And yes, this is the lower charge. But at the same time, they were pressing the defense and basically saying, [22:47] you know, are you suggesting that just because he was acquitted of the most serious charges that we don't, [22:52] we can't take everything that Cassie Ventura testified is true? [22:56] And it was very difficult to see what that line is and what exactly what can be considered in terms of sentencing or not. [23:02] So if you had to take a guess, what do you think is going to happen? [23:05] Are they going to remand this back down for a resentencing? [23:09] Are the convictions going to be thrown out or are they just going to keep the status quo for now [23:13] because it's not entirely clear on what they should do? [23:17] You know, you're so sharp because if you listen to it and I've talked to a ton of lawyers today [23:24] and only a handful picked up on what you did. [23:27] They actually read a couple of the judges read statements from the closing argument to Slavic, to the AUSA. [23:37] And they said you, this, the Mann Act was basically, they didn't say it this way, but implied it. [23:43] It was just a throwaway here. [23:44] This is what you argue to the jury. [23:46] Now you're telling us to argue, so you're arguing something else. [23:48] I think, you want me to make a bold prediction? [23:52] Please. [23:52] I think what they're going to do is they mentioned that Judge Subrahemian had gone through and said, [24:00] even if I threw out considering the acquitted conduct, I would have still given him the X, Y, or Z in the same sentence, [24:09] meaning I'm not relying on the acquitted conduct, even though I am considering the acquitted conduct. [24:14] I think what they're going to do is they're going to write a bright line rule for how you deal with acquitted conduct [24:22] and they're going to remand it to him and tell him, even what you said, even if we accept what you said, [24:28] you didn't have the benefit of a bright line rule, here's the bright line rule, resentence him. [24:33] So I think they're going to remand for resentencing. [24:36] I think you're right, because there was a moment that I was listening today where, I forgot which judge it was, [24:40] he's like, we basically have to come up with, you're asking us to come up with a guideline, [24:44] you're asking us to come up with a rule here, tell us what it should be. [24:48] And when I heard that, I said, oh, that may be exactly what happened. [24:51] So people should pay attention to this and whether or not there's going to be a development, [24:56] because this will not only have ramifications, potentially, for Sean Combs, [24:59] but for other cases in the future as well. [25:01] Mark Garagos, again, sharp legal mind, one of the sharpest in the business. [25:05] Thank you so much for taking the time, sir. Always love having you on. [25:08] Thank you, Jesse. Great being here. [25:10] Awesome. All right. This is a big story, okay? [25:13] Michigan woman disappears in the Bahamian waters after her husband says she fell off their dinghy. [25:19] Now that husband is under arrest, although he's yet to be charged. Interesting. [25:25] Here's the thing. He hasn't been found guilty, he hasn't been charged, [25:29] but has he already been found guilty in the court of public opinion? [25:34] That's an interesting question, and I have an interesting guest [25:37] who has firsthand experience about this. Next. [25:40] If you've even just glanced at social media, [25:50] you have probably seen at least one headline about a woman named Lynette Hooker [25:55] who has gone missing in the Bahamas. [25:57] Now, Lynette's husband, Brian, says the pair were on their eight-foot dinghy. [26:01] They headed from Hopetown back to Elbow Cay, where their sailboat was anchored, [26:05] when these rough waters caused Lynette to fall overboard, taking the dinghy keys with her. [26:10] Now, Brian says Lynette began to swim toward the sailboat, [26:12] and as he battled the current with a single oar in this dinghy, [26:17] they quickly lost sight of each other. [26:18] And Brian says for hours he paddled and drifted until he washed ashore [26:22] on a neighboring island at four in the morning, where he could finally get some help. [26:25] Now, Brian has been placed under arrest in the Bahamas, [26:29] where he's being held for questioning. [26:31] Although, to be clear, he has not yet been charged with any crime. [26:34] Here's the problem for Brian. [26:35] The Internet is already coming for him, [26:37] especially after Lynette's daughter, Brian's stepdaughter, [26:40] raised doubts about her stepfather's story. [26:43] In fact, here's what she told our NewsNation affiliate [26:46] in the family's home state of Washington. [26:49] I have a hard time believing that she just fell off. [26:52] Even if she did, I don't understand why he didn't drop anchor and look for her. [27:00] Michigan, by the way. Sorry. Apologies for that. [27:02] Brian Hooker has retained an attorney, unequivocally denies any wrongdoing. [27:08] But less than a week into the investigation, [27:11] is Brian already being tried in the court of public opinion? [27:14] Has he been found guilty there? [27:15] Joining me now is somebody who knows all too well [27:18] how media attention can affect a case like this. [27:21] Cole Goldberg was charged and tried for the attempted second-degree murder [27:24] of his girlfriend at the time, [27:25] a personality on the popular show 90 Day Fiance. [27:29] Cole was accused of trying to drown her in 2022 [27:32] after the two jumped off a boat [27:34] following what witnesses described as a dispute, [27:36] a situation that Cole and a judge agreed was misinterpreted [27:40] after Cole panicked and struggled to swim in the current. [27:43] Cole was acquitted of all of those charges just last month. [27:47] He is now advocating for fair trials and due process. [27:51] Cole, thank you for coming on the show. Appreciate it. [27:53] So, look, in the eyes of our legal system, I'm an attorney. [27:56] You're innocent until proven guilty. [27:57] My understanding is you say, look, [28:00] in a case that gets this much media coverage, [28:02] it's different, like yours did. [28:04] And now, unlike the death of Lynette Hooker, [28:06] it feels like the opposite. [28:08] What do you mean? [28:09] Jesse, first of all, thank you so much for having me. [28:12] But yes, in the court, your resume is innocent, of course. [28:15] But in the public eye, it feels like the opposite. [28:18] I mean, I personally went through it. [28:19] The national headlines constantly going throughout. [28:22] I mean, just walking around every day. [28:23] People have informed opinions way too often, [28:28] and the facts certainly haven't came out yet way before. [28:31] So, the people that are online, and you have online sleuths, [28:35] you have true crime discussion boards, [28:37] they formed opinions. [28:39] What do you say to them? [28:41] I mean, the story can form long before the facts are fully known. [28:45] At the end of the day, headlines don't determine guilt. [28:47] Evidence does. [28:49] And that was proven in a courtroom. [28:50] What should he be expecting right now? [28:54] What's his journey like? [28:55] A, from right now, he hasn't even been charged, [28:58] but he's getting this attention online. [29:01] The word of he has been arrested, we'll see if he gets charged. [29:04] But let's say it's ultimately determined that this was just a tragedy, [29:06] a tragic accident. [29:08] How does he ever overcome this? [29:11] Is the stigma always there? [29:12] What does his journey potentially look like? [29:16] Right. [29:17] I mean, you're definitely always going to still have people [29:18] that formulate those opinions. [29:20] And it's unfortunate because people tend, [29:22] in today's day, they believe everything they read. [29:25] But you just really have to stay patient [29:27] and wait till the facts come out. [29:29] Mine personally came out four years later, [29:31] and I was able to tell the truth. [29:33] But that's ultimately what I went through. [29:34] I mean, I struggled with four years waiting [29:36] with that public perception. [29:39] It struggled to get jobs, find apartments, [29:41] just everyday life, socializing. [29:44] It was very difficult to walk around [29:45] with everyone looking at me like I'm a monster. [29:48] Has it changed? [29:50] It's definitely changed a little bit. [29:52] There's definitely people that are still on the fence. [29:54] It's unfortunate for them, [29:55] but I'm just glad the truth came out four years later. [29:57] So what do you want to see a change be? [30:00] I don't know if it's... [30:01] I don't even know how you make a change, right? [30:03] I don't know if it's a change in the law. [30:04] I don't know if it's a change in social media activity. [30:08] I mean, it's pretty... [30:08] People can have any opinions they want. [30:10] What would be a change that you see needs to be made [30:13] as you're trying to advocate for something? [30:14] I mean, I would say in high-profile cases, [30:18] you have to consider all options. [30:19] I personally went with a bench trial, [30:21] so I didn't even have a jury. [30:23] I was worried for specific reasons [30:24] that they would be tainted. [30:25] They would look at my name online. [30:27] Issues like that. [30:30] I don't know if they could possibly try [30:32] to keep the defendant's name [30:33] when they're writing articles out [30:34] until actual evidence is proven. [30:38] But there's definitely a hole that needs to be filled. [30:40] Cole, just so anybody who does [30:43] not familiar with your story [30:44] or just joining us, [30:45] and they say, hey, listen, wait a second. [30:46] Cole, you were acquitted. [30:47] System worked for you. [30:49] What are you complaining about? [30:50] What do you say to them? [30:53] It's not how it is, though. [30:55] I mean, I walked around four years [30:57] with everyone thinking I was guilty. [30:59] I couldn't be a normal person. [31:01] It was... [31:01] I had anxiety, sleepless nights. [31:03] It was a big issue. [31:04] And it's a fight that's not over yet, honestly. [31:08] I mean, I'm sure people are going through this all the time. [31:10] And it's an issue that needs to be resolved. [31:12] Do you think it would help for someone... [31:15] And obviously, from a legal point of view, [31:17] I will tell you it can get legally dicey if you do this. [31:20] But do you think it would help for someone [31:21] to do interviews, to go on podcasts, [31:25] to go on TV shows, to do live streams, [31:29] to take questions, to be out there, [31:31] to change the narrative? [31:32] Again, if someone is criminally charged, [31:35] that can have disastrous consequences. [31:38] R. Kelly is a prime example. [31:40] But if you're dealing with somebody [31:41] in this position where they were arrested, [31:45] we don't know what's going to happen here. [31:47] We'll see what happens. [31:49] But do you think that's something you would advocate? [31:53] I personally don't think it's a smart idea. [31:55] I'd rather, no matter how long it takes, [31:57] whether my situation was four years, [31:58] the evidence and the facts will come out in court. [32:02] But with today's media, [32:03] everyone could just twist your words, [32:04] and it could definitely come back to hurt you. [32:07] But I would not recommend doing something like that. [32:09] Just stay in the course, keep your head up, [32:11] maintain your innocence, [32:12] and wait for your day in court to tell the truth. [32:14] Do you think it hurts [32:16] potentially getting a fair and impartial jury? [32:20] I do. I do think so. [32:23] I mean, I know they're instructed [32:24] to not look up your name outside of the courtroom [32:26] or any articles or research. [32:29] But I don't know. [32:30] People tend to do it still. [32:31] I mean, I've heard stories. [32:32] And I personally was worried about that. [32:34] And that's, again, part of the reason [32:35] why it shows a bench trial. [32:36] Yep, yep. [32:37] Well, listen, Cole Goldberg, [32:39] I appreciate you taking the time. [32:41] Congratulations on the acquittal. [32:43] I'm wishing you the best of luck in your journey [32:44] to try to, you know, reverse the narrative [32:47] that has been put forward about you. [32:49] And we will see where this goes. [32:51] But I really appreciate your perspective. [32:52] Thanks for coming on. [32:53] Thank you so much, Jesse. [32:54] Appreciate it. [32:55] Okay, so we have this six-alarm fire [32:58] that ripped through a California warehouse this week [33:01] after, get this, a disgruntled [33:04] or alleged disgruntled employee [33:06] is accused of arson, [33:09] decided the allegation is that arson was the way to go [33:11] and not, I don't know, a two-week notice. [33:13] Now we have this new video [33:15] that was allegedly shot by the suspect himself [33:18] that may reveal exactly why [33:20] he allegedly decided to spark [33:22] this multimillion-dollar inferno, [33:24] the supposed firebug's shilling words [33:27] right after the break. [33:28] You know, most of the time, [33:36] a disgruntled employee [33:38] might steal a roll of toilet paper [33:40] on their way out the door, [33:42] something really extreme like, [33:44] oh, I don't know, [33:45] setting one on fire [33:46] in order to burn the whole place down? [33:48] Because that is exactly what police [33:51] in Ontario, California, [33:52] alleging 29-year-old Chanel Abdul-Karim [33:55] did on Tuesday [33:56] after a six-alarm fire broke out [33:59] at the warehouse that he worked at. [34:00] Fire crews responded to this blaze [34:02] at the 1.2 million square foot warehouse [34:06] early Tuesday morning [34:07] and about 175 firefighters [34:09] and 15 truck companies [34:11] showed up to battle this inferno. [34:13] It took hours to put this out. [34:15] Now, the warehouse [34:15] was a paper distribution center, [34:18] paper, [34:19] owned by a corporate giant, [34:20] Kimberly Clark, [34:21] and soon after the fire started, [34:23] police arrested this guy, [34:24] arrested Abdul-Karim [34:25] on suspicion of felony arson. [34:27] Now, why do they think he did it? [34:29] And how did he allegedly do it? [34:31] Well, some new video [34:33] circulating on social media, [34:36] seemingly shot by the suspect himself, [34:39] maybe giving us a clue. [34:40] Thankfully, nobody was reported injured [34:42] in the blaze, [34:43] but while it's still too early [34:44] to add up the cost [34:45] of what was burned inside the warehouse, [34:47] according to Zillow, [34:48] the warehouse itself [34:48] was worth a whopping $156 million. [34:52] Joining me now for more on this story [34:54] is Brian Rokos, [34:55] the public safety reporter [34:56] for the Press Enterprise, [34:57] which is part [34:57] of the Southern California News Group. [34:59] Thanks for taking the time. [35:00] How did they lead back [35:02] to this suspect? [35:03] Was it the social media video? [35:06] Well, there's going to be [35:06] a news conference tomorrow morning [35:08] where we're going to find that out, [35:11] hopefully. [35:13] So far, all we know is that [35:14] Mr. Abdul-Karim [35:18] was reported missing, [35:19] and then very shortly [35:21] after he pops up, [35:24] they decide that he's the guy. [35:28] Whether he said something, [35:29] or whether his clothes [35:32] were covered in ash [35:33] or whether he had a big smile [35:36] on his face [35:37] and was celebrating a six-alarm fire, [35:41] I don't know. [35:42] Well, we'll see. [35:43] Do you know anything more about him, [35:45] his employment, [35:46] what happened there? [35:46] I mean, do you know [35:47] anything more about him? [35:49] Well, I don't know exactly [35:50] what his job is. [35:53] He obviously was complaining [35:55] about his pay. [35:56] Forklift operators there, [35:59] for instance, [36:00] start at $38,000 a year, [36:04] goes up to $58,000. [36:06] So warehouse jobs [36:09] typically do not pay very well. [36:12] That's one of the criticisms [36:13] of all the building of warehouses [36:16] in what we call the Inland Empire [36:18] here in Southern California, [36:20] east of Los Angeles, [36:21] is that these provide low-wage jobs [36:27] that are difficult to live off of. [36:31] He's had disputes [36:32] with an employer before. [36:35] A couple of years ago, [36:37] when he worked at another place, [36:39] he joined a class-action lawsuit [36:41] against his employer [36:43] that alleged that [36:44] they didn't provide meal breaks, [36:47] they didn't provide rest breaks, [36:49] they didn't pay you properly [36:52] upon departure, [36:55] wage statements were incorrect. [37:00] So, I mean, [37:00] he's not beyond complaining [37:05] about his pay, [37:06] but obviously, [37:08] you know, [37:09] if in fact he did this, [37:11] that's taking it [37:12] to a crazy level. [37:14] Well, we'll let the legal process work out. [37:15] I'm curious to see [37:16] what's said at the press conference, [37:18] but let me just tell you, [37:19] thank goodness [37:20] they were able to contain this. [37:21] That was a massive fire. [37:22] I'm sure there were concerns [37:23] about a wildfire, [37:24] whether or not it would jump, [37:25] but it was an amazing response. [37:27] Brian Rokos, [37:27] thank you for taking the time [37:28] to explain a little bit more about it. [37:30] Thank you. [37:30] Appreciate it. [37:31] Sure thing. [37:33] So, tomorrow, big day. [37:34] Basically, [37:35] the Super Bowl for space fans [37:37] is Artemis 2 returns to Earth [37:40] after their historic trip around the moon. [37:42] And we have got a preview [37:43] of what you will see [37:45] when those brave astronauts [37:46] finally splash down [37:48] in the Pacific Ocean [37:49] and why this is such a big deal. [37:50] After all, [37:51] yeah, we've been to the moon before. [37:53] This is different. [37:54] My two cents [37:54] on what this could mean [37:55] for the future [37:56] of not just space, [37:58] but mankind. [37:59] That's up next. [38:07] Artemis 2 is going to splash down [38:09] in the Pacific Ocean tomorrow. [38:10] Now, for those of you [38:11] who are like, [38:11] eh, I don't know. [38:12] What's a big deal? [38:14] I've got to give you [38:14] my two cents, okay? [38:16] We are talking [38:17] NASA's first crewed lunar mission [38:19] in over 50 years. [38:21] They're returning back [38:22] to planet Earth [38:23] after their almost [38:24] 700,000-mile journey [38:26] by re-entering the atmosphere [38:28] using Earth-moon gravity fields, [38:30] descending under parachutes, [38:32] and landing in the ocean [38:34] with teams that are expected [38:35] to meet them. [38:35] This is a big deal. [38:36] And tomorrow, [38:37] we're going to be doing it all. [38:37] We're going to be covering all of it. [38:38] We're going to take an in-depth look [38:39] at this very historic trip, [38:41] covering it here on News Nation. [38:42] But just to give you an idea, [38:44] take a look at this preview. [38:47] And that splashdown [38:48] should be coming up [38:49] just very shortly from now. [38:58] There it is, [38:59] splashdown of Apollo 14. [39:02] Those big orange [39:03] and white parachutes, [39:04] all the life going out of them, [39:06] their work done. [39:07] They will be set free [39:09] by a smooth sea [39:11] would be ideal [39:12] for working out there [39:13] in the recovery. [39:14] Begin their recovery operations [39:15] as soon as Dragon lands. [39:30] Pause. [39:30] And splashdown. [39:32] So we have visual confirmation [39:34] of the Crew-1 resilience capsule. [39:37] That's the on 283. [39:59] That's about 20 meters [40:00] off the ocean. [40:09] Splashdown. [40:11] As you can see on your screen, [40:13] we have visual confirmation [40:14] for splashdown. [40:16] It's just incredible. [40:18] It's just incredible. [40:18] Look, the astronauts [40:19] didn't make it on the moon [40:20] this time, [40:21] but this mission [40:21] was an important test [40:23] for future missions [40:24] like making lunar colonies [40:26] or even landing on Mars. [40:28] And yeah, [40:28] it may be too early [40:29] to start looking at [40:30] Martian real estate, [40:32] but maybe our children [40:33] will be able to step foot [40:34] on another planet. [40:35] And this was the first step. [40:36] And when you think about that, [40:38] maybe, just maybe, [40:40] mankind's destiny [40:41] lies out there in the stars. [40:43] So check us out tomorrow. [40:45] Does it for us tonight. [40:46] Cuomo's next, everybody. [40:47] See you then.