Robin Howington on Cross-Examination: Mother Daughter Murder Trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: So we're gonna we're gonna get into the story that you've told for the first time today here in just a minute. But before we get into that, I want to back up. Okay? Yes, ma'am. I want to take you back to the very first story that you told to the 911 caller when you called 911. Talk about that. Yes, ma'am. You initially said that it was an unknown black male. Is that correct? Yes, ma'am. You said that black male had essentially broken into your home, correct? Yes, ma'am. And that black male who you've never seen a day before in your life shot your daughter in cold blood right in front of you. Is that correct? Yes. You said that Gavin was in the room. Is that right? Yes, ma'am. And you said that when this unknown black male who drove a black what you believe to peak Chrysler 300. You recall telling me? Yes, ma'am. Okay. You said that he looked at you and his eyes got really big and that he just ran out. Is that right? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So that was your initial story to 911 when you first call, correct? Yes. Okay. Let's talk about the 911 call. You just testified that you are walking up into your house and you see the gun go off when Gavin shoots Destiny. Is that what you just testified to? Yes. And you've seen the surveillance video from your neighbor's house. Yes. That you walk, you enter your home at 8:50. Correct. Correct? And now you know that the 911 call was not placed until over three minutes later at 8:5353. Is that correct? Yes. So you go back in your home after seeing your daughter get shot by your two-year-old son according to you today. And you wait almost four minutes to call 911. Is that your testimony? [00:01:52] Speaker 2: I had to find my phone. It had fell in between the cushions in the other living room. Okay. [00:02:01] Speaker 1: So you see Gavin get shot. You call 911 four minutes later. But again, you don't tell any of this to the police initially, do you? No, ma'am. You blame it on some stranger that you've never seen before in your life that came in and shot your five-year-old in cold blood. That was your story initially. [00:02:18] Speaker 2: An unidentified person, yes, to protect my son. Unidentified black male is what you said, is it not? [00:02:27] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. In a black Chrysler 300, you were pretty specific about that, right? Yes, ma'am. You said that he wasn't wearing a hat. Yes, ma'am. That he was a little bit darker complexion than, than, uh, Officer Wardlaw. You actually even, I mean, you described it even to that extent, correct? [00:02:44] Speaker 3: Can you clarify, now we're on to the interview with Officer Wardlaw and we were talking about the 911 call. If we could break that up so she knows what she's being asked. [00:02:53] Speaker 4: All right, we'll rephrase the question. At some point in time, did you later describe him as being darker than Officer Wardlaw? [00:02:59] Speaker 1: Yes. All right, that's your news of Christian. All right, so that's 911, so police get on scene. Judge, that's not going 911, she says 911. Okay, I apologize. I'm going back to immediately after the 911 call was placed. Police arrive on scene about three minutes after the call is initially placed, is that correct? I assume. You've seen the videos? Yes. Okay, and you said just now that you didn't even realize that Officer Cummings had taken Destiny outside until the trial today, is that correct? [00:03:32] Speaker 4: Yes. That's what you just testified to? Yes. That's not true today, he testified on Tuesday. Okay, until the trial, her testimony was she didn't realize that Officer Cummings had taken Destiny out. Is that an accurate statement? Yes. All right, ask your next question. [00:03:50] Speaker 1: Next question. And so, at 8:56.42, so within about 30 seconds of Officer Cummings arriving, you were on your phone trying to call Callie? Yes. Is that why you didn't pay attention to the fact that he was taking your daughter outside? No. But again, your daughter's outside at some point and you don't even know she's out there. You don't even know that the police officer has taken your daughter that's been shot outside. I had went out there. And asked if she was okay and if Gavin was okay. That was also on the video that you just spoke of. Okay, but again, Ms. Allington, you just testified that you didn't realize that Destiny had been taken outside because you were tending to Gavin. Was that not your testimony just now? Yes. Okay, so you knew where Gavin was. Yes. According to your own statement just now. But you didn't know that the officer had taken Destiny outside to wait for the ambulance until the trial. You didn't know that? No. But you were on your phone trying to call Callie. [00:04:49] Speaker 2: If that's what it says, then yes. I went out there and they told me to step back if they were doing everything that they possibly could. [00:05:00] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, let's talk about when you meet Officer Riddle for the first time at your house before you are taken to UT Hospital. Okay? You once again make a claim that it is an unknown individual, an unknown male broke into your house and shot your daughter in cold blood, didn't you? [00:05:19] Speaker 2: Yes. To protect my son, I sure did. Okay. [00:05:24] Speaker 1: You didn't say anything about the gun being outside at that point, did you? No. Again, you're sticking with the story that this is unknown man. So to the police officers, they think that there is a murderer on the loose based on your statement, correct? [00:05:40] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:05:41] Speaker 1: And that statement that you made was made prior to you ever talking to a law enforcement officer that night. [00:05:48] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:05:49] Speaker 1: So you are the one that put this idea that this was a murder in the investigator's head, correct? [00:05:55] Speaker 2: If that's what you want to say, yes. [00:05:59] Speaker 1: Well, ma'am, it's not my words, okay? Are you the one that told police officers that someone had came in and murdered your child? Yes. And so that is the reason that these officers treated this as a murder investigation, is it not? [00:06:13] Speaker 2: Yes, but I was trying to protect my son at any cost. Okay. [00:06:23] Speaker 1: Now you also said that the man that came to your house, kind of in the interim, you call that an individual by the name of Jay. Yes. You said that you were paying him for window tinting. Yes. Again, your daughter was shot September the 14th, 2019, correct? Yes. How many times have you told, how many times did you tell the officers about this Jay individual? [00:06:46] Speaker 2: I don't recall. [00:06:47] Speaker 1: You never told him about Jay, did you? You have to answer out loud for the court reporter. No, ma'am. Okay. So the very first time that we're ever hearing about who this mysterious individual is that's in your home for 63 seconds is when you're sitting on that stand right now. [00:07:01] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:02] Speaker 1: You didn't tell officers that night who was there, none of that, correct? Correct. [00:07:07] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:07:08] Speaker 1: Okay, so then you're taken to, after Detective Riddle gets on the scene, you are taken to UT Hospital, correct? [00:07:19] Speaker 2: In a police car, yes. [00:07:21] Speaker 1: Yes. All right, and you've seen that video, correct? [00:07:24] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:25] Speaker 1: And you've heard your own statements on that video, right? Yes. Where you were in the back seat on your cell phone, correct? Yes. And you've said here today that you were on the phone with Callie. [00:07:38] Speaker 2: At one point, yes. Yes. [00:07:40] Speaker 1: And you're telling him to go get the gun? Yes. Again, you stated that you were trying to protect Gavin, is that your testimony here today? Correct. Do you remember telling the officers during that first interview, right after you left the hospital, that the reason you put the gun outside was because you were afraid you would get in trouble? [00:07:59] Speaker 2: No. [00:08:00] Speaker 1: You don't recall telling officers that you were scared that you would get in trouble? No, ma'am. And that's why you put the gun outside? No, ma'am. All right, so once you get to UT Hospital, you are allowed to keep your cell phone, right? Yes. The same cell phone that you just used in the car on the way there to try and get somebody to come get that gun. Yes. And once you realize that at some point officers may want to search your phone, that is when you go in the bathroom, correct? [00:08:46] Speaker 5: Correct. [00:08:47] Speaker 1: That is when you try and get a completely innocent person involved in your mess, is that right? Yes. Trying to give your phone away to a person who knows nothing about you or this situation. [00:08:58] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:08:59] Speaker 1: You were trying to give your phone to an individual who, again, knew nothing and you're trying to give incriminating evidence to a completely innocent person in that bathroom. [00:09:11] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:09:12] Speaker 1: And when she wouldn't take it, you broke it. [00:09:17] Speaker ?: I don't say break it. [00:09:18] Speaker 2: I put water on it. [00:09:21] Speaker 1: You didn't break it? You didn't break your phone? I don't recall breaking it. [00:09:25] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. All right. [00:09:27] Speaker 1: So, when officers recovered your cell phone, I'll show you what's been marked as Exhibit 48, this was the screen of your cell phone. Is it your testimony that you didn't cause this damage? [00:09:45] Speaker 2: It was already broken. [00:09:46] Speaker 1: So, you had been using a phone like this? Yes. You didn't bend it in the bathroom before running water open? [00:09:53] Speaker 2: I don't recall that. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just do not recall that. [00:09:59] Speaker 1: So, when you ran, did you run water over it under the sink or did you put it in the toilet? [00:10:16] Speaker 2: In the sink. In the sink. [00:10:18] Speaker 1: Okay. So, again, you are at UT Hospital. You know that your daughter is unresponsive at that point, correct? [00:10:25] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:10:26] Speaker 1: You said it yourself, you tried to speak to her, she was unresponsive, right? [00:10:30] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:10:31] Speaker 1: You know that doctors are trying to do everything they can to potentially save their life, to save Destiny's life at that point, right? [00:10:38] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:10:39] Speaker 1: And your action is to go in a bathroom and try and get rid of your cell phone while your daughter is in that hospital fighting for her life, is that correct? [00:10:50] Speaker 2: Yes, they would not let me see her. [00:10:56] Speaker 1: Okay. So, after you leave UT Hospital, you then go back to KPD. We've seen that initial interview and I want to go through that for a minute, okay? [00:11:04] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:11:08] Speaker 1: So, you stated, and I think we heard it a few times, you said that you told the officers that you were scared because you were raped. Is that what you think you said? [00:11:19] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. [00:11:21] Speaker 1: If the recording shows that you actually never said that you were scared, you said, "It's not that I don't care, I was raped," right before Investigator Riddle kind of jumped up and gets mad, would that be accurate? [00:11:33] Speaker 3: Okay. That mischaracterizes the evidence. It was ten minutes before that that she's killed it. All right. [00:11:38] Speaker 4: The jury will judge the evidence. It's a cross-examination. She can ask the question. Ladies and gentlemen, you are the ultimate finders of fact in this case. You will judge what the tape does say and when it does say it. Ask the question again. [00:11:50] Speaker 1: If the recording of your first interview shows that when you bring up the fact that you were raped, the context of that conversation is you said, "It's not that I don't care, but I was raped." Is that what you said? [00:12:06] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Okay. [00:12:15] Speaker 1: And again, I do want to go back to this. You stated that you put the gun outside because you were trying to protect your son, is that right? [00:12:22] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:12:23] Speaker 1: That's your statement here today. [00:12:24] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:12:25] Speaker 1: But when you were interviewed initially, do you recall that Officer Wardlow said, "Okay, so why did you think to get the gun and put it outside?" Do you recall him asking you that? [00:12:36] Speaker 2: Not right off, no ma'am. [00:12:38] Speaker 1: Well, do you recall telling him because I, as in you, didn't want to be charged with having a gun? Do you remember saying that? [00:12:47] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:12:48] Speaker 1: Can I start charging? I'll show you a copy of the transcript that we've all been going off of. Yes, ma'am. I'll have you read this page 37 of this transcript. I'll have you read the second and third line if you could. [00:13:02] Speaker 2: We're going to say, "Okay, why did you think to get the gun and put it outside?" [00:13:06] Speaker 1: I was trying to read it. You don't have to read it outside. Just read it to you. Read it out loud, I'm sorry. [00:13:13] Speaker 4: Are you refreshing her recollection or impeaching her with this prior inconsistent statement? [00:13:16] Speaker 1: I am just refreshing at this point. All right, read it to yourself. Please read those two lines to yourself. I've read it. Okay. So after reading this Ms. Howington, did, in fact, tell the officers during that initial interview that the reason that you put that gun outside is because you didn't want to get in trouble for having a gun? Correct? [00:13:36] Speaker 2: That's what it says. Yes, ma'am. [00:13:38] Speaker 1: Okay. You did not tell the officers when they asked you right then that you were protecting your son. Correct? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now let's go through, again, go through some of these statements. So even once we get back to KPD after you leave the hospital, initially you again say that it is a man that you've never seen before in your life that came in and shot your daughter and killed her, right? [00:14:13] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:14:14] Speaker 1: And at this point you know that the officers know that you've just tried to either give away or destroy your cell phone. Correct? You're aware of that? Yes. Okay. And you begin, y'all talk a little bit about Antoine and initially you do say it's not Antoine, correct? Yes. And you stick with the story that it's still this black male that you've never met before in your life at one point. Yes. Kind of stick with that initially. Then you bring up the fact that while you were at the park there were three Mexican boys and that might have had something to do with the shooting. You recall saying that? [00:14:52] Speaker 2: Somewhat, yes. [00:14:53] Speaker 1: You recall saying that you were being followed on your way home? [00:14:57] Speaker 2: And I thought that was true. [00:14:59] Speaker 1: Okay. So once you finally say actually it was Antoine, even within that story it changes a lot, doesn't it? Even once you say that Antoine was the one that shot Destiny, you change your story up even within that a lot, don't you? [00:15:23] Speaker 2: If that's what you want to say, yes. [00:15:25] Speaker 1: Well, let me just tell you exactly what you said. Alright, do you recall initially saying that Antoine brought a gun inside your house and shot Destiny? [00:15:35] Speaker 2: Not right off, no ma'am. [00:15:36] Speaker 1: You don't recall it? Would it help you to re-watch the portion of your interview where you said that? [00:15:45] Speaker 2: I guess, or you can show me the transcript like you just did. [00:15:48] Speaker ?: You can tell us that early. Because, I mean, this is his daughter too. [00:15:50] Speaker 6: I know that he killed her but I just don't feel like he did it all right because I feel like he was trying to kill me. So he was already there? [00:16:05] Speaker 7: What happened? He tried to talk. [00:16:07] Speaker ?: He came to the house. [00:16:08] Speaker 6: And when he came to the house, I told him I didn't want to talk to him and he went back outside the house. Okay. [00:16:23] Speaker ?: Then what happened? [00:16:24] Speaker 6: He didn't kill him. He brought a gun back in living. [00:16:28] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:16:29] Speaker 8: So this gun that Kelly gave you, how many of you had in? [00:16:41] Speaker 1: Nope. Okay, so after hearing that, would you agree with me that initially you said that Antoine came to your home, right? [00:16:49] Speaker 2: After they suggested Antoine, yes, I went with that story. [00:16:53] Speaker 1: Okay. Did they suggest to you that he leaves and comes back in with a gun? [00:16:59] Speaker 2: That's what he said. [00:17:01] Speaker 1: That's what you said, Ms. Howington. [00:17:03] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:17:04] Speaker 1: Did you hear yourself say that? That you and Antoine are arguing? Did you hear yourself say that just now? [00:17:08] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:17:09] Speaker 1: Did you hear yourself say that Antoine left and then came back in with a gun? [00:17:14] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:17:15] Speaker 1: Okay. Let's go to the next thing you say. So then you change that story and say, actually, Antoine was there. You're still sticking with the fact that Antoine was there. But now you say that Gavin got a hold of the gun. Do you recall saying that? Yes. Do you recall saying that little two-year-old Gavin had actually moved a stool from your living room area to your closet in your bedroom? Yes. You said that he might have even put on your high heels, right? Right? [00:17:51] Speaker 2: No. [00:17:52] Speaker 3: No. No. [00:17:54] Speaker 4: No. Tender and objection. [00:17:56] Speaker 3: The objection is she is making things up. That is not what the statement says. [00:18:01] Speaker 4: All right. Rephrase your question and refer to whatever portion of the interview that you want to impeach her with. [00:18:08] Speaker 1: At one point, did you say that Gavin took the stool and moved it in front of your closet? [00:18:13] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:18:14] Speaker 1: Did you then say that he reached up and got the gun? Yes. When the officers asked you how that was possible, did you not say that he could have put on your high heels? No. [00:18:25] Speaker 2: I said he got my high heels out of the closet. I don't think that I said. [00:18:30] Speaker 1: When you were talking about him reaching the gun? I don't think that I said. [00:18:33] Speaker 2: I wasn't sure how he got the gun. I just knew that he had got the gun. [00:18:41] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:18:42] Speaker 1: So, again, you said after you change it to Antoine brings a gun in, you finally do admit that it was a gun in your home that shot and killed your daughter, right? Yes. You said that Gavin climbed up in the closet and got it out of, well, you didn't say the black bag at first, did you? [00:19:04] Speaker 2: I don't recall. [00:19:06] Speaker 1: And then, according to your own statement at that time, you moved the stool, before officers got there, back into the living room, right? [00:19:17] Speaker 2: I don't recall that either. [00:19:19] Speaker 1: You don't recall telling officers that? [00:19:21] Speaker 2: Ma'am, I was not in my right mind at that time. I had just seen my baby shoot my daughter. [00:19:27] Speaker 1: Ms. Harrington, have you watched your interview here in court? [00:19:31] Speaker 2: Somewhat, yes, but I don't want to remember any of this. Okay. [00:19:35] Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to have to play it for you again if you can't remember. That's fine. [00:19:41] Speaker ?: I'll show you this transcript. Yeah. I'm going to go back for a second. We're going to talk about the high heels. All right. Let's go. [00:19:48] Speaker 1: If you wouldn't mind, just from here to here, just read that to yourself and when you're done, let me know. Go ahead, page 23. [00:19:55] Speaker ?: I apologize. [00:19:55] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:19:56] Speaker ?: Yes, ma'am. [00:19:56] Speaker 1: Okay. Okay, so now that you've read this, do you agree with me that when the officers asked you how gabbled by holding the gun in the closet, you said he pulled the gun in the closet, you said he pulled the gun in the closet. Here you say a chair. Is that correct? [00:20:08] Speaker ?: Is that what you said? Yes. And you said in the closet because he puts on my high heels. Okay. [00:20:11] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. [00:20:13] Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. [00:20:15] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. [00:20:17] Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. [00:20:19] Speaker 1: Okay. So now that you've read this, do you agree with me that when the officers asked you how gabbled by holding the gun in the closet, you said he pulled, here you say a chair. Is that correct? Is that what you said? Yes. Is that correct? Is that correct? Yes. Is that correct? Is that correct? Is that correct? Is that correct? Yes. In fact, you did say that. [00:20:42] Speaker 2: I don't recall, but yes ma'am, it's there. Okay. [00:20:45] Speaker 1: Okay. So let's go, let's fast forward just a little bit here to your interview on September the 17th. Again, you maintain at that point that Gavin shot Destiny, right? [00:21:06] Speaker 2: That's the truth ma'am. [00:21:08] Speaker 1: But then you change it up even a little bit more and you said that you were in the kitchen and that Antoine in fact was not there. Is that right? [00:21:17] Speaker 2: I don't recall ma'am. Okay. I'm telling you, I was not in my right mind. Some things I remember and some things I just don't. Okay. [00:21:26] Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to, I'm going to play a portion of this clip and then you tell me if you remember saying this. [00:21:32] Speaker ?: Okay. Thank you. Okay. [00:21:35] Speaker 5: Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go to the ropes or whatever or get it out because they have been able to wait for two hours. I didn't actually turn it off, but it was almost, it doesn't look like that. I don't know. I don't know what the hell is against Callie. But he got to scream and hollering about Callie and we got to argument and we had a tussle a little bit and I asked him to please leave and he was like, oh, I know what you're going to do. You're going to call the police call the police, you're going to call the police for the law until we left and then when I went in the kitchen, yapping, waiting to my garden and Destiny was laying on the couch watching Netflix and I came back and sat down and I was getting shot. Let's get it. All right, so let's break that down just a little bit. [00:22:37] Speaker 1: So in this, in this version of events, you say that Antoine and you get into a disagreement. Did you hear that? [00:22:44] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:22:45] Speaker 1: You say that you tussle a little bit, right? [00:22:48] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:22:49] Speaker 1: And you say that Antoine leaves, right? [00:22:52] Speaker 2: I think that I was confused and everything was coming together from what happened on the 12th. [00:22:58] Speaker 1: Okay, but in this statement, you would agree with me, which you just watched, you said that Antoine leaves, didn't you? [00:23:05] Speaker 6: Yes. [00:23:06] Speaker 1: And you said that after Antoine leaves, that's when Gavin gets the gun, is that right? [00:23:13] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:23:15] Speaker 1: You say that you're in the kitchen of your home, correct? Yes. [00:23:20] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:23:21] Speaker 1: And that that's when Gavin shot Destiny, right? [00:23:25] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:23:26] Speaker 1: All right, let's go to the next version. And that one, again, you now put Antoine back in the house. Do you recall this, this version? When Antoine and you get into it and he takes the gun from you, do you recall telling officers that? [00:23:43] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:23:44] Speaker 1: Yes. Okay, so now, after you previously said that he's left the house, you put him back in the house and you say that Antoine took the gun from you, right? [00:23:56] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:23:57] Speaker 1: Yes. And that at that point in time, you say that that's when the gun is shot, right? [00:24:02] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:24:03] Speaker 1: So now it's not Gavin once again. [00:24:06] Speaker 2: I don't ever want it to be Gavin, ma'am. I don't want him to live with this. Do you not understand that? [00:24:13] Speaker 1: I'm asking you what you said, okay? Again, you're blaming, you're blaming Antoine here. You're making up a whole lot of facts. I just want to be clear about this. The officers are not the one saying that Antoine's leaving, coming, going, none of that, correct? [00:24:33] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:24:35] Speaker 1: It's you that's making up these facts, right? [00:24:38] Speaker 2: They brought up Antoine first, and I just agreed with it. [00:24:42] Speaker 1: Okay, they brought up that he might have been the shooter first, right? Correct. They didn't give you all these additional facts, did they? [00:24:50] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:24:51] Speaker 1: They didn't put all that in your head, did they? No, ma'am. They also asked you multiple times whether or not you were the shooter during your first interview, didn't they? [00:25:00] Speaker 2: I don't recall that. [00:25:01] Speaker 1: You don't recall them ever saying, did you accidentally shoot your child or we think you might have shot your child? You don't ever remember them saying that? No, ma'am. We will come back to that as well. All right. Now let's talk about the gun. Ms. Hagen, you just testified a moment ago that you received that gun from Cali a few months before this, right? Yes, ma'am. Would you say two to three months, maybe? [00:25:29] Speaker 2: Around about, yes, ma'am. [00:25:31] Speaker 1: And you also just testified that within two to three months you had never gotten that gun out before September the 12th, right? [00:25:39] Speaker 2: Before September the 12th? [00:25:40] Speaker 1: Before September the 12th, when Cali and Antoine are arguing, I think you testified that you didn't have anything to do with that gun before then. [00:25:48] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:25:49] Speaker 1: You had not gotten it out. [00:25:50] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:25:51] Speaker 1: You had kept it in a bag in the top of your closet. Correct. [00:25:54] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:25:55] Speaker 1: Was Gavin in your room whenever you took that gun out of the bag on the 12th? [00:26:01] Speaker 2: No. [00:26:02] Speaker ?: No. [00:26:02] Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. Was this the first gun you'd ever owned? Yes, ma'am. Prior to September 14th of 2019, had anybody ever told you that maybe you were storing guns improperly? Objection. [00:26:36] Speaker 7: Approach the bench. [00:26:37] Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you. [00:26:39] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. [00:27:35] Speaker 4: All right, Ms. Alton, go down and have a seat next to your lawyer for just a moment. [00:27:56] Speaker ?: All right. [00:27:57] Speaker 4: General, I think you were not asking the question appropriately, but we discussed and I would not permit the state to go into because it's premised upon hearsay if it's coming in a text message. I guess I thought they were going to call Mr. Oliver, but they have chosen not to. But the question, if my notes are correct, the text message says what date that he is texting about... August the 4th. August the 4th of 2019. He's sending a text. This homicide occurred on September the 14th of 2019. Mr. Oliver is sending a text to Ms. Howington complaining about the fact that she has left a firearm on her nightstand. I did not allow that to come in via the officer because it's hearsay. If the state had chosen to call Mr. Oliver, we would have had a separate discussion. But Ms. Howington put this directly at issue in her direct examination, not crossed, direct examination when she testified that that gun was put up in the bag and it was not touched again thereafter until the 12th. It's directly at issue. [00:29:24] Speaker 3: Just tell me how that makes it knock hearsay. [00:29:28] Speaker 4: The question is, do they have a good faith basis to ask if she had left the gun on the nightstand? [00:29:35] Speaker 3: Based on the text. [00:29:38] Speaker 4: Correct. [00:29:39] Speaker 3: And have you heard from Mr. Oliver? He called him a nutcase. He's an abuser and a liar. So how do we take this text? Because she said she didn't move the gun and leave it on a nightstand. That the liar can testify. [00:29:56] Speaker 4: I'm not going to debate this with you. You have put it directly at issue by her statement about that gun and not touching it. That text directly contradicts that. [00:30:07] Speaker 3: So now they can, oh, it directly contradicts it if it's true. [00:30:12] Speaker 4: Exactly. [00:30:13] Speaker 3: It's a statement out of court by a non-testifying witness. Exactly. [00:30:19] Speaker 4: The question is, do they have a good faith basis to ask the question? And they have a text message which she never contradicts. I did not allow them to put this in in their case in chief. [00:30:29] Speaker 3: It's coming in. Under Crawford, how does she get the right to cross-examine her accuser? If you let a text message from a man who they have under subpoena- I didn't let it in. Who is, oh, you're getting ready to. You made it relevant. No, I didn't, Judge. I did not make it relevant because I don't believe it's true. [00:30:46] Speaker 4: I get the final thing and I said you did. [00:30:48] Speaker 3: So Crawford does not exist anymore? [00:30:50] Speaker 4: It's coming in. Judge, how do I cross-examine that? It's coming in, Mr. Whalen. They have the right to ask her if she left that gun on the nightstand. [00:30:59] Speaker 3: They have a right to call that witness. [00:31:01] Speaker 4: They may choose to do that. But right now the question is, do they have the right to cross-examine her? And I have ruled that they do. [00:31:08] Speaker 3: And they can, oh, well, here's the problem. She, to ask the question, were you told by someone else that you were improperly storing a handgun? [00:31:18] Speaker 4: And that's not the proper form to ask the question. I sustain it as to that. But they have the right to inquire. She put it at issue in her direct examination. [00:31:27] Speaker 3: And what else other hearsay are they going to get to speak loudly from the stand and then say, oh, well, maybe we didn't ask the right question. [00:31:34] Speaker 4: Whalen, it is late and I'm not going to argue with you. I have ruled. If I am wrong, the Court of Criminal Appeals will tell me so. It's coming in. Line the jury back up. [00:31:43] Speaker 3: Only the fact, only the question, did you ever leave your gun on the nightstand? [00:31:48] Speaker 4: They have the right to ask the question, have you left your gun on the nightstand? That's what the text is complaining about. On or about August or whatever date that was. Because that is within two months of when this occurred, when she said she got in the gun and hadn't touched it. [00:32:06] Speaker ?: It's going to be right. It's going to be right. It's going to be right. It's going to be right. It's going to be right. It's going to be right. Thank you. [00:32:36] Speaker 4: All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. [00:33:06] Speaker ?: All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. [00:33:08] Speaker 4: All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. [00:33:12] Speaker 9: All rise, we hear it. [00:33:13] Speaker 4: All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. [00:33:17] Speaker 1: All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. We hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. [00:33:39] Speaker 10: All rise, we hear it. [00:33:40] Speaker 1: All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. All rise, we hear it. We hear it. with that fact? Not right off, no ma'am. Do you remember being confronted at all during that interview about the fact that a gun was found outside of your home? I assume so, yes. Okay, do you remember specifically being asked whether or not the gun found outside your home was the gun that was used to shoot and kill your daughter? No ma'am. [00:34:24] Speaker 8: Okay, so the gun that we had outside that Kelly gave you, you test fire that gun, it's not going to match anything with this. No. Have you ever used a shotgun? No. So you don't know how to use a gun? No. [00:35:07] Speaker 1: All right, so you just heard yourself there, right? Yes ma'am. So would you agree with me that you told officers initially that the gun found outside your home was not the gun used to shoot and kill your daughter? I've just seen it, yes ma'am. That is what you said, right? Yes. Okay, you then switch it up a little bit. Do you recall finally admitting that that was in fact the gun that was used to shoot your daughter at some point? Do you remember saying that? I guess, yes ma'am. Do you remember also saying that Antoine wiped it off? Not right off, no ma'am. [00:35:54] Speaker 9: Is that gun the murder weapon? I'm just asking. If it is, tell us it is. If it's the weapon you used now and you took it outside, tell me the truth. Is it the murder weapon? Because I think we've got and we've got ballistics and we're going to be able to take them. I want you to hear from your [00:36:12] Speaker 5: mouth. I want you to hear from your mouth. Do you want this right? Yes, you wipe it off. Okay, you [00:36:23] Speaker 1: heard yourself just then. Would you agree with me that at this point you've now admitted that the gun found outside your home was in fact the weapon and that Antoine wiped it off, right? That's what I said, yes ma'am. Okay. Do you initially remember telling officers that you had no idea that there was even [00:36:45] Speaker 2: a gun outside of your house? Do you recall that? I will continue to say the same thing ma'am. I was trying to protect my son and you just can't accept that this was an accident. You just can't accept it. [00:36:57] Speaker 1: Ma'am, listen. My question was you initially told the officers that you had no idea about a gun outside [00:37:05] Speaker 2: of your house, didn't you? Ma'am, I was not in my right mind. I had just seen my baby shoot my daughter. Do [00:37:14] Speaker 1: you not understand? I hear what you're saying, but my question to you was did you initially tell the officers that you had no idea about any sort of gun outside of your home? If it's on the video that's what I said ma'am. [00:37:32] Speaker 7: Can we get the screen please? [00:37:43] Speaker 8: Um, do you want guns? I don't have your guns. I feel a surprise if you can tell you that a gun was playing outside of the house. Does that would surprise you by now? [00:37:57] Speaker 1: Again, right here, you tell the officers that you don't have a gun, right? Yes ma'am. You tell the officers that it would surprise you if a gun was found outside your home, correct? Yes ma'am. But seeing as how you were the one that put the gun out there, that's not true, is it? [00:38:21] Speaker 2: I was trying to protect my son. I was not in my right mind. And at that time you had also asked multiple people to go and pick up that gun, had you not? Because I did not want it to come back to Gavin. Do you not understand what I'm saying ma'am? Ms. Howington, Ms. Howington, my question is, [00:38:42] Speaker 1: at that point in time you had asked multiple people to come and pick up that gun that you put outside your home. Had you not? To protect Gavin. Ms. It's a yes or a no. Had you told, asked multiple people to get that gun from outside your house, yes or no? Yes ma'am. Okay. Now she may explain her [00:39:02] Speaker 4: answer. I think she has, but if you want to again explain your reasoning, do so. I was trying to [00:39:09] Speaker 2: protect my son. And nobody wants to accept that. What would you do? [00:39:24] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. All right. At that point in time, again, you had sent these text messages to multiple individuals, but you had, because your phone had been broken and run underwater, you didn't actually know whether or not those individuals were able to go get the gun, did you? Ms. I have no idea ma'am. Ms. Well, did you receive any correspondence back to your multiple text messages asking people to go get the gun? Ms. Not that I know of. Ms. Okay. Ms. And so until officers confronted you with the fact that a gun was found outside your house, you didn't know whether it was there or whether somebody actually was able to go get it, did you? Ms. Yes. Is this the first gun you've ever had? Ask for me. I don't think I've asked this specific question. Is this the first firearm you ever had? Ms. Yes ma'am. May we approach your honor? Ms. Yes ma'am. [00:41:12] Speaker ?: Ms. Yes ma'am. [00:41:18] Speaker 1: Ms. Do you recall when, again, when you're being interviewed, do you recall at one point in time, Officer Wardlaw had said something to the effect of, don't you think it's your responsibility as a parent to keep a parent to keep a gun safe? Ms. Not right off, no ma'am. Ms. I'm asking you to just read the green highlighted portion of two. Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. Okay. So after reading that, would you agree with me that at some point during your interview with Ms. Wardlaw says, don't you think it's your responsibility as a parent to keep your gun safe, right? He asked you that question? Ms. Yes. Ms. And you agreed with him and said yes. Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. Agreed that it is your responsibility to keep your gun safe in your home, correct? Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. Okay. Ms. Now let's talk about the story that you've just told here today. Ms. You said that Jay comes to your house at, what time was it again? Ms. I can't remember off the top of my head a few minutes before. Ms. Yeah. Ms. Alright, so we've seen the video now where the individual is in your home for 63 seconds. Ms. Did you see that video? Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. So you are now saying that that is an individual by the name of Jay, correct? [00:42:53] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes ma'am. [00:42:55] Speaker 1: Ms. And they enter your home at 8:46-43. Would you agree with me? Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. And again, this is today in this courtroom on that stand is the very first time in almost five years that you've been here. Ms. And you've identified the person that came into your home, right? [00:43:12] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes ma'am. [00:43:13] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. You said that after Jay leaves, you then walk out and move your vehicle, right? Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. You then make sure that your children are okay before going back outside to smoke. Ms. Is that what you just testified to? Ms. Yes ma'am. Ms. Now again, is that the first time he's been here? Ms. Is this the first time here in this courtroom after almost five years, is this the first time that you're telling this version of events? [00:43:39] Speaker 2: Ms. In the courtroom, yes. Ms. Okay. [00:43:44] Speaker 1: Ms. Did you ever tell the officers the version that you just told on that stand here today, have you ever told the officers that? Ms. What are we speaking of? Ms. That the version of events of how Destiny got shot, what you just testified to on direct examination, did you ever tell the officers that version of events? [00:44:01] Speaker 3: Ms. So she's going to need to break that down to be a little more specific, guys. [00:44:06] Speaker 1: Ms. Did you ever tell the officers before today, did you ever tell anyone other than your attorney, I guess, before today, that Gavin, you saw Gavin shoot Destiny as you were walking in your house? Ms. Yes. Ms. You told the officers that? [00:44:20] Speaker 2: Ms. Not the officers, you said anyone. [00:44:22] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay, but again, this case has been pending for a long time, is it not Ms. Howington? Ms. Yes ma'am. [00:44:27] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes ma'am. [00:44:28] Speaker 1: Ms. And this is the very first time that you are telling the version of events that you just told. You never told the officers in the multiple times that you were interviewed that version of events, did you? [00:44:37] Speaker 2: Ms. I did tell them that Gavin shot Destiny. [00:44:40] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. You never told them that you weren't even inside your home when the shot occurred, correct? [00:44:47] Speaker 2: Ms. Not that I know of. Ms. Okay. [00:44:52] Speaker 1: Ms. So, again, your statement here today is that on September the 12th, Antoine took your gun and just disassembled it, I guess, in the front yard? Is that your statement? [00:45:08] Speaker 2: Ms. He took it away from me, yes ma'am, and took it apart and threw it on the ground. Ms. And Callie put it back together? [00:45:14] Speaker 1: Ms. Correct. [00:45:15] Speaker 2: Ms. Correct. [00:45:16] Speaker 1: Ms. And you said that Callie put it up? Ms. Yes. [00:45:19] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [00:45:20] Speaker 1: Ms. And you didn't see it again? [00:45:22] Speaker 2: Ms. Correct. [00:45:23] Speaker 1: Ms. Until you say you saw Gavin shoot Destiny. [00:45:26] Speaker 2: Ms. I didn't say I saw it. Ms. I saw Gavin shoot Destiny. [00:45:32] Speaker 1: Ms. So you did say that? Ms. Never mind. Ms. Okay. Ms. So, again, we're talking about a two-day span where you apparently don't know where in your house this gun is, correct? [00:45:46] Speaker ?: Ms. Correct. [00:45:48] Speaker 2: Ms. I didn't normally just go check to see where a gun was, so no. [00:45:55] Speaker 1: Ms. So what you're saying is that prior to leading up to this event, you didn't keep tabs on where the gun was in your home? [00:46:03] Speaker 2: Ms. I knew where it was when I put it there. [00:46:08] Speaker 1: Ms. But again, if your testimony is that somebody else put it away, you didn't think to check to make sure that it was in a safe location? [00:46:17] Speaker 2: Ms. I trusted him. Ms. I trusted him. [00:46:20] Speaker 1: Ms. In your house with your two small children, you didn't think to go and check to make sure that it was in a safe location? Ms. At least twice. Ms. Well, I don't think that question has been asked. [00:46:28] Speaker 3: Ms. She hasn't. Ms. She trusted him. [00:46:30] Speaker 4: Ms. Answer that question, Ms. Allington. [00:46:32] Speaker 1: Ms. So again, in your home where your two small children live in the two days after you think Callie puts this gun away, you didn't actually go check to see where he put it? [00:46:51] Speaker 2: Ms. No, ma'am. [00:46:52] Speaker 1: Ms. You didn't ask him where he put it? [00:46:54] Speaker ?: Ms. No, ma'am. [00:46:55] Speaker 1: Ms. You didn't ask him if he put a loaded gun up with the safety off? [00:47:01] Speaker 2: Ms. No, ma'am. [00:47:02] Speaker 1: Ms. You didn't ask him if he put a loaded gun up with the safety off that was cocked and ready to shoot? [00:47:08] Speaker 2: Ms. No, ma'am. [00:47:10] Speaker 1: Ms. And you would agree with me that if two-year-old Gavin found this gun within the three minutes that you're outside, it had to be somewhere pretty readily accessible to him, correct? [00:47:21] Speaker 2: Ms. I've never seen it with my own eyes until the 14th. [00:47:26] Speaker 1: Ms. So for two days you don't lay eyes on your gun, but in three minutes your two-year-old found it? [00:47:31] Speaker ?: Ms. Yes, ma'am. [00:47:33] Speaker 2: Ms. Okay. [00:47:35] Speaker 1: Ms. And I guess just to clear things up, I just want to be sure that we're all clear here, Antoine was not at your house on September the 14th of 2019, was he? Ms. No, ma'am. Ms. He was nowhere, well, he was not there, right? [00:48:00] Speaker 2: Ms. Correct. [00:48:01] Speaker 1: Ms. You and him did not get into a tussle. [00:48:03] Speaker 2: Ms. I told you earlier that I feel like everything was melting together in my mind because I was under so much stress. [00:48:12] Speaker 1: Ms. Now, you remember in your first interview telling the officers about the events of September the 12th, do you not? [00:48:20] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [00:48:21] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay, so in fact you did remember those events that day, right? [00:48:26] Speaker 2: Ms. From the 12th? [00:48:28] Speaker 1: Ms. When you're being interviewed, you told the officers about the events of September the 12th, correct? [00:48:33] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [00:48:34] Speaker 1: Ms. So that was separate, and then you go on to again, in two separate interviews, continue to say that Antoine was at your house that night, right? [00:48:44] Speaker 2: Ms. And I also told you, ma'am, I was not thinking clearly. [00:48:48] Speaker 1: Ms. So you didn't know who was in your house then, but today you do? [00:48:52] Speaker 2: Ms. After looking at things and talking, some things I have recollected, and some things I haven't. [00:49:02] Speaker 1: Ms. So again, immediately following something that you witnessed with your own eyes, you were so unsure about events that you put people in your home that weren't even there. Is that what you're saying? [00:49:19] Speaker 2: Ms. I guess. [00:49:21] Speaker 1: Ms. But you had at least enough sense to text people and tell them that you had hid the gun outside, did you not? [00:49:27] Speaker 2: Ms. I was trying to protect my son. [00:49:31] Speaker 1: Ms. Again, you just testified that it was hard for you to remember all the things that happened that night, did you not? [00:49:39] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [00:49:40] Speaker 1: Ms. But you remembered that you hid that gun in a bush by your air conditioner, did you not? Ms. When you texted those people to come and get it, you certainly remembered that, didn't you? [00:49:50] Speaker 2: Ms. To protect my son. [00:49:52] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm going to need a yes or a no, ma'am. Ms. Yes. Ms. Because that's what you put in the text messages, right? [00:49:59] Speaker 2: Ms. After I seen the text messages, yes. [00:50:01] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. So you got that part. Ms. That was fine. Ms. But you can't remember, immediately after the shooting, you couldn't remember who was in your house? [00:50:09] Speaker 2: Ms. Immediately after? Ms. Correct. [00:50:12] Speaker 1: Ms. When you're being interviewed, you say, "Antoine was in your house." Ms. Can we, can we clarify when we're being interviewed? [00:50:19] Speaker 4: Ms. But it's been asked and answered, gentlemen. [00:50:21] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. Okay, now again, the story that you just testified to, you said that you were outside, where were you, on your porch? [00:50:31] Speaker 2: Ms. I was walking in the door with my hand on the door when I seen the flash of light from the gun. [00:50:38] Speaker 1: Ms. And so was Gavin in that second living room? [00:50:41] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [00:50:42] Speaker 1: Ms. And so you weren't actually in the room when he shot, correct? Ms. No. Ms. Now, you do understand, you've heard the expert testify about gunshot residue. Ms. You heard that testimony? Ms. Yes, ma'am. Ms. You do understand that gunshot residue was found on your clothing, correct? [00:50:59] Speaker 2: Ms. And I assume that it came from when I was trying to help my daughter. Ms. Do you not understand? [00:51:07] Speaker 1: Ms. Let's talk about that real quick. Ms. Let's talk about you trying to help your daughter, okay? Ms. You stated that you rendered aid to her. Ms. How did you do that? [00:51:15] Speaker 2: Ms. I was talking to her, saying her name. Ms. I got a towel. Ms. I prayed. [00:51:24] Speaker 1: Ms. Again, you've heard the testimony of the officers who were on scene, have you not? Ms. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Allington, you didn't have a drop of blood on you. Ms. So how were you rendering aid to your daughter on scene? [00:51:38] Speaker 2: Ms. I didn't really see a whole lot of blood on the front of her until we looked at that video or whatever the pictures. Ms. I only, I didn't even know that there was that much blood on the couch. [00:51:51] Speaker 1: Ms. You saw the front of her shirt, right? Ms. That had to be cut open? Ms. Yes. Ms. Saw that it had blood all over it, didn't you? [00:51:58] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. Ms. It didn't have blood all over it, no. Ms. It just was like right here. Ms. When it happened, that's what I seen. [00:52:06] Speaker 1: Ms. So you said that you rendered aid while you were on the phone with 911, is that right? [00:52:14] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. Ms. I kept asking them, "What do I need to do? Ms. What do I need to do?" Ms. They couldn't tell me. [00:52:19] Speaker 1: Ms. Was that before or after, again, while you're on the phone with 911? Ms. Is that before or after you're outside hiding the weapon that was just used to shoot your daughter? [00:52:30] Speaker 2: Ms. I was on the phone with 911 when I took the gun outside. Ms. Correct. [00:52:35] Speaker 1: Ms. But you also just testified that while you were on the phone with 911 that you were rendering aid to your daughter. Ms. So I'm just trying to figure out how it was that you were hiding a gun and rendering aid to your daughter. [00:52:46] Speaker 2: Ms. I did not hide a gun, ma'am. Ms. I just threw it out there. [00:52:50] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. But again, that's not my question. Ms. My question is, at what point, when you're on the phone with 911, and you are taking the gun outside and throwing it in the bush, when did you render aid to your daughter? [00:53:07] Speaker 2: Ms. Right after. Ms. I did not want the gun to be in there because I didn't want it to cause any more harm. Ms. And you didn't want to get in there. [00:53:15] Speaker 1: Ms. And you didn't want to get in trouble, did you? [00:53:17] Speaker 2: Ms. I'm sitting here right now, ma'am. [00:53:20] Speaker 1: Ms. Again, that's not my question, Ms. Howington. Ms. My question is, from your very first statement, you said that the reason you took that gun outside is because you didn't want to get in trouble. Right? [00:53:33] Speaker 2: Ms. If I get in trouble, I can't take care of Gavin. [00:53:36] Speaker 1: Ms. Howington, my question is, is that what you said to officers that night? Ms. That the reason you took that gun outside is because you yourself did not want to get in trouble? Ms. I assume so, yes. [00:53:50] Speaker 2: Ms. Okay. [00:53:51] Speaker 1: Ms. Now, your attorney asked you about this. I won't go into it a lot, but I do want to ask. Ms. Now, you've talked a lot about this rape that occurred in Bristol, right? [00:54:05] Speaker 2: Ms. It was in Kingsport. Ms. In Kingsport. [00:54:07] Speaker 1: Ms. In Kingsport. I apologize. I'm from Kingsport. I should have known better. Ms. Again, are you aware that the individual in that case was never charged with rape? Ms. No, ma'am. Ms. You're aware that that individual only pled guilty to filing a false police report? [00:54:26] Speaker 2: Ms. I assume so. I didn't know that, no. [00:54:30] Speaker 1: Ms. You also testified a minute ago that you had a failure to appear for a speeding ticket, correct? [00:54:34] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes, ma'am. [00:54:36] Speaker 1: Ms. You wrote out a statement and gave it to TBI about what happened to you. [00:54:40] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [00:54:41] Speaker 1: Ms. You wrote that you had a failure to appear from an assault charge from when you lived in Bristol, correct? [00:54:47] Speaker 2: Ms. Not that I know of, no, ma'am. [00:54:50] Speaker 1: Ms. You don't recall writing that? Ms. No, ma'am. Ms. You don't recall saying that on February 20, 2018, you went to court, you received... [00:54:58] Speaker 3: Ms. I'm going to object. That's not her written statement. That's a TBI report someone else wrote. [00:55:03] Speaker 1: Ms. I am happy to go get the written one. [00:55:05] Speaker 4: Ms. Okay, we're not trying to rape case. Let's move along. [00:55:08] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay, so it's your testimony, though, that it was a speeding ticket, not an assault charge? Ms. Yes. Ms. So you did 28 days of community service for a speeding ticket. Is that your testimony? [00:55:19] Speaker 2: Ms. No. Up there, you do 30 days of community service for any failure to appear. [00:55:28] Speaker 1: Ms. Now the officer that we're talking about, this was not, this was the person who was responsible for transporting people to and from community service, right? [00:55:36] Speaker 2: Ms. And overseeing us. [00:55:38] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Not a detective, anything like that? This was a person who is a transport officer? Ms. I have no idea. Ms. Let's talk about this PTSD. You saw on the video that you have a lot of medication that you take. What medications do you take for PTSD? [00:55:59] Speaker 2: Ms. Prozac, busaprone, hydroxyzine, several others. I don't, it's just a few of them. [00:56:14] Speaker 1: Ms. Do you ever sell your medication? [00:56:16] Speaker 2: Ms. No, ma'am. [00:56:17] Speaker 1: Ms. You heard the testimony, um, of Mr. Joe Keyes, right? Ms. Yes, ma'am. Ms. And you heard him testify that, that he had purchased a, I believe, from Rocky Codos with you. Is that right? Ms. Yes, ma'am. Ms. And in fact, we see the text messages from your phone. Do you remember these text messages? Ms. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Do you remember that, literally, in the minutes leading up to your daughter being shot, he's texting you about pills, right? [00:56:41] Speaker 2: Ms. He's texting me about pills. [00:56:44] Speaker 1: Ms. Correct, right? He's texting you about pills. None of these, your testimony is that none of the pills that you're selling to Joe Keyes, those aren't your prescription? [00:56:52] Speaker 2: Ms. I have PTSD. They don't prescribe pain pills for PTSD. [00:56:57] Speaker 1: Ms. But you had them anyway. Ms. But you had them to sell to him, even though you weren't prescribed them? Ms. Yes. [00:57:09] Speaker 4: Ms. Okay. Ms. Same instruction from a couple days ago, ladies and gentlemen. The fact that Ms. Howington may or may not have done this is relevant for other purposes, but you may not assume that this is in some way suggestive of a propensity to break the law. Does everybody understand the distinction? Go ahead. [00:57:27] Speaker ?: Ms. I also want to ask you about one specific thing that you said to Mr. Keyes. [00:57:34] Speaker 1: Ms. Right here. Ms. So, 926, go to my house, go back way, get my gun out of the bush under the air conditioner, dab and shot Destiny, then come to UT, and I got you for free. Ms. Are you referring to pills at that point when you say I got you for free? [00:57:57] Speaker 2: Ms. I assume so. [00:58:01] Speaker 1: Ms. Would you agree that people who sell drugs sometimes have guns for protection? [00:58:09] Speaker 3: Objection card. She wouldn't know that. [00:58:11] Speaker 4: Ms. If she knows. [00:58:13] Speaker 1: Ms. If you know. Would you agree with that statement or disagree with that statement? [00:58:17] Speaker 2: Ms. I don't know. [00:58:46] Speaker 1: Ms. I want to talk to you about, um, I believe your attorney asked you about something that was said about a forensic interview. Do you recall your attorney asking you about that? [00:59:02] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes, ma'am. [00:59:03] Speaker 1: Ms. You said that you were scared because you weren't sure what that meant? [00:59:06] Speaker 2: Ms. I mean, yeah. [00:59:09] Speaker 1: Ms. So, if the officer told you that it was literally just an interview, your testimony is that that scared you enough to not tell the truth that night? [00:59:22] Speaker 2: Ms. You just showed me pictures of you guys or someone taking pictures of my son while he was crying. Ms. Not me. Ms. So, yes, I don't think that that was anything that he needed to go through. [00:59:36] Speaker 1: Ms. And just to clarify, you didn't see pictures of me taking pictures of your son? Ms. Someone. Ms. And you're saying pictures of your son? [00:59:44] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes, the ones that you showed. [00:59:46] Speaker 3: Ms. How did they ever introduce to Officer Tompkins when they went to child health and had him standing against him? Ms. Okay. [00:59:53] Speaker 4: Ms. You're not testifying. Ms. Ask the next question. [00:59:55] Speaker 1: Ms. Your Honor, I'm talking about the interview that night. Ms. They made a big deal about the fact that Officer Riddle mentioned a forensic interview. Ms. That interview didn't occur that night, so it can't be that. [01:00:05] Speaker 4: Ms. You're not testifying either. Ms. Ask the next question. [01:00:07] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. So, again, the fact that the officer said that your son would be interviewed scared you enough to where you had to lie that night. [01:00:14] Speaker 2: Ms. I assume so, yes. [01:00:19] Speaker 1: Ms. And you recall the officers telling you multiple times that they don't take two-year-olds to jail, correct? [01:00:25] Speaker 2: Ms. It didn't matter. Ms. Those pictures proved that no one really cared. Ms. They were taking pictures of my baby while he was crying. [01:00:33] Speaker 1: Ms. What pictures are you referring to, Ms. Howington? [01:00:36] Speaker 6: Ms. How am I supposed to get them? [01:00:40] Speaker 1: Ms. Where was he when he was crying? Ms. I don't know. Ms. Do you know what she's doing? [01:00:48] Speaker 4: Ms. Now, which interview are you referring to? [01:00:52] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm referring to the very first interview. [01:00:54] Speaker 3: Ms. I suspect it was number 47. Ms. Are you talking about this picture? [01:01:19] Speaker ?: Ms. Yes. [01:01:23] Speaker 1: Ms. Where your son is just being measured against a wall? [01:01:34] Speaker 2: Ms. He looks scared to death and I'm pretty sure that he's crying. [01:01:36] Speaker 1: Ms. What about this picture? Ms. Right there after? [01:01:39] Speaker 2: Ms. Okay, but who's to say the timeframe of that? Ms. The first one, he looks scared to death and crying. [01:01:46] Speaker 1: Ms. In this picture, you're saying that your son looks terrified, right? Ms. Yes. Ms. The only thing is a tape measure just being held up inside of him, right? Ms. And for that reason, because your son got a tape measure held up inside of him, you said that you had to lie about what happened. Ms. You had to protect him from a tape measure. [01:02:06] Speaker 2: Ms. No, that's not what I said, ma'am. [01:02:08] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. Ms. Are you aware that the reason that we had to take those photographs of Gavin is because you lied and said that he got the gun by using a stool? Ms. I did not lie. Ms. You didn't lie when you said that Gavin- [01:02:21] Speaker 2: Ms. I assumed that Gavin got a stool because I was not sure how he got the gun to shoot his sister. [01:02:30] Speaker 1: Ms. Ma'am, do you recall saying that you saw the stool at your closet and moved it back before officers got there? [01:02:38] Speaker 2: Ms. Not right off, no. [01:02:40] Speaker 1: Ms. If you said that, would that be a lie? Ms. If you said in your first interview that you saw the stool at your closet and that you moved it before officers got there to help Destiny, would that have been a lie? [01:03:03] Speaker 2: Ms. I don't recall that. Ms. Okay. [01:03:06] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay. [01:03:07] Speaker ?: Ms. We will come back to that one as well. [01:03:08] Speaker 10: Ms. Find it and come back to it. [01:03:09] Speaker 1: Ms. Do you remember when you went back to the house after you had been interviewed and the officers put the stool there? Ms. From the pictures. Ms. But you don't remember ever going back to your house? [01:03:32] Speaker 2: Ms. I was not in my right mind, ma'am. [01:03:36] Speaker 6: Ms. Can we, um, get this. [01:03:53] Speaker 9: Ms. You can make a mistake but I would think that that wouldn't be, you know, right? [01:03:58] Speaker 6: Ms. That's the first time. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:00] Speaker 7: Ms. You can make a mistake but I would think that that wouldn't be, you know, right? Ms. That's the first time. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. You can make a mistake but I would think that that wouldn't be, you know, right? Ms. That's the first time. [01:04:08] Speaker ?: Ms. I'm not in the first time. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. You can make a mistake but I would think that that wouldn't be, you know. Ms. Right? Ms. That's the first time. [01:04:15] Speaker 9: Ms. I'm not in the first time. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:21] Speaker 6: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:23] Speaker 7: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:30] Speaker ?: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:32] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:48] Speaker 2: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:50] Speaker ?: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:04:51] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. What I want to hear today, under oath, is that you've never said that you saw him with your own eyes get that stool and that you physically moved that stool back before the police [01:05:02] Speaker 2: got there. Ms. I do not recall that, ma'am. [01:05:05] Speaker ?: Ms. Okay. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:05:29] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:05:36] Speaker ?: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:05:42] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:05:43] Speaker 2: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. [01:05:44] Speaker 1: Ms. I'm not in the first interview. Ms. After reading that, you did, in fact, tell the investigative report law that prior to officers arriving on scene the night of September 14th, that you moved, that you physically moved the stool back to the kitchen, or the living room area, right? [01:06:01] Speaker 2: Ms. That's what it says, yes, ma'am. Ms. Okay. [01:06:04] Speaker 1: Ms. So, in fact, you didn't assume, because here you're saying that you moved it, right? [01:06:10] Speaker 3: Ms. So, that's two separate issues. Ms. She said she assumed that's how he got to the closet. [01:06:15] Speaker 4: Ms. You have an objection? [01:06:16] Speaker 3: Ms. Yes, she's confusing the issues and confusing the witness. [01:06:21] Speaker 4: Ms. Well, I don't think she did, but rephrase your question. [01:06:25] Speaker 1: Ms. Okay, your testimony here today is that you assumed that Gavin got the stool, correct? Ms. Yes. Ms. And, but are you saying also that you never physically witnessed the stool in your closet? Ms. I don't recall. Ms. But you've just read what you said the night of the shooting. Ms. You've just read that portion of your interview, correct? Ms. Yes, ma'am. [01:06:50] Speaker 2: I was not in my right mind. [01:06:52] Speaker 1: Ms. You told Investigator Wardlaw not only did you see the stool in your closet, but that you physically moved it before officers got back, correct? [01:07:01] Speaker 2: Ms. That's what it says, yes, ma'am. [01:07:04] Speaker 1: Ms. That's what you said, Ms. Howington. Did you not? [01:07:07] Speaker 2: Ms. I assume so, yes. [01:07:10] Speaker 1: Ms. And then again, from the clip that we played a minute ago, second interview, you admit even then that you lied. You said that that was not true about the stool, correct? [01:07:26] Speaker 2: Ms. I told you I was not in my right mind, ma'am. [01:07:29] Speaker 1: Ms. Ma'am, my question to you was, in that clip that we just saw, you admitted that you had lied about the stool. Ms. No, that's not true. [01:07:37] Speaker 3: Ms. The clip said I can make a mistake and I, there's a difference between a mistake and a lie. [01:07:43] Speaker 4: Ms. She can answer the question. [01:07:45] Speaker 1: Ms. Did you lie about the stool in your first interview? Ms. I don't recall, ma'am. [01:07:49] Speaker 2: Ms. So did you move it? [01:07:51] Speaker 1: Ms. Not that I recall. [01:07:53] Speaker 2: I recall. [01:08:23] Speaker 1: I do want to talk about this last statement that you made, not the one today, but the one [01:08:50] Speaker 3: you made in your second interview, again where you're saying that the 17th, yes, September [01:09:06] Speaker 1: 17th, 2019. Do you recall that even after you had maintained for a while that it was Gavin, again, you go back to you and Anton fighting over the gun, right? [01:09:17] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:09:18] Speaker 1: Okay. Do you recall saying that or no? [01:09:21] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [01:09:22] Speaker 1: You don't recall changing your story once again, even after you had told, you'd maintained that it had been Gavin, you don't remember saying again that it wasn't Gavin? [01:09:31] Speaker ?: No, ma'am. [01:09:32] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [01:09:33] Speaker 1: So the very, we'll play it. But if I was to say that this was the very last statement that you gave to police officers before you came in today and testified on the stand, you actually don't blame Gavin in the last one. Why would I? [01:09:45] Speaker 2: I do not want him to live with the fact that he shot his sister for the rest of his life. [01:09:51] Speaker 1: Ma'am, my question was, again, your last statement to officers was that you and Antoine, who we now know was not even in the home that night, were in a fight when Destiny was shot. Do you remember making that statement? No, ma'am. Okay. [01:10:09] Speaker ?: I wonder if we can have the. [01:10:10] Speaker 2: Thank you. [01:10:11] Speaker 1: Okay. [01:10:12] Speaker 10: Was Antoine already there? [01:10:13] Speaker ?: You down. [01:10:14] Speaker 8: Remember when I said I want you, I want you to tell me stuff that you hadn't told me before? Yes, ma'am. You need to tell me that. You got the card already. Okay. [01:10:37] Speaker 5: That's good and cool. And I asked Destiny what she wanted to eat and he kept finding the interviewer and he don't know where to eat me. So that was a problem right there. Anything that I do that he can find a problem with, it's a problem. So he didn't want her to eat me first off so he started on a lot of shit too. And he continued to scream and holler and raise his voice and he went, I thought he was leaving. He went to the living room and so I was like, please leave. He didn't leave. And I go, hold on. I felt threatened because I didn't know what the hell he was careful of. I mean he beat me through my door. I was unconscious. And I went down to Gavin and I got it. He got it for me. What was he doing? He was in the black bag on the back of the door. [01:11:30] Speaker 8: He was in the black bag on the back of the door and you had it out? [01:11:32] Speaker 5: On the back of my bedroom. No worries. Sorry. [01:11:35] Speaker 1: Okay. [01:11:36] Speaker ?: Let's talk about that. [01:11:36] Speaker 1: So here, again, you've now changed your story yet again and said that Gavin didn't do it. But you've also put the gun in the black bag on the back of your door, right? [01:11:47] Speaker 2: There's a nail on the back of the door. But no, I don't recall any of that. That's what you have to understand. [01:11:56] Speaker 1: Ms. Hackton, is that not you on that video? Yes. So you said what you said, right? [01:12:03] Speaker 2: Not in my right mind. [01:12:05] Speaker 1: Again, the last statement that you gave was that you and Antoine were fighting and that he tried to get the gun from you and it went off, correct? [01:12:16] Speaker 2: That's what we heard, ma'am. [01:12:19] Speaker 1: Ms. Hackton, are you aware that based on your statements that Antoine could have been charged with first degree murder? [01:12:26] Speaker 2: I was trying to protect my son. Ms. Hackton. Antoine has tortured me to the point of putting me in the hospital. [01:12:32] Speaker 1: Ms. Hackton, my question to you was. I'd like to object. [01:12:36] Speaker 4: She needs to answer the question first and then she can explain. Ask the question then. [01:12:43] Speaker 1: You do understand that based on your statements that Antoine could have been arrested that night and charged with first degree murder, correct? [01:12:52] Speaker 2: I was trying to protect my son. They brought, the detectives brought Antoine. [01:12:57] Speaker 1: Ms. Howington, I need you to say yes or no to my question first, please. Ask the question. [01:13:01] Speaker 4: And you can explain if you feel the need to. Ms. Hackton. [01:13:05] Speaker 1: So, again, just a yes or a no. Do you understand that based on your statement to the police on the night that your daughter was shot that Antoine could have been arrested and charged with first degree murder? [01:13:17] Speaker ?: Ms. Hackton. [01:13:18] Speaker 2: I guess. Yes. [01:13:20] Speaker 1: Never thought about it. Ms. Hackton. You didn't think about that. Ms. Hackton. When you were blaming him for the death of your daughter and he wasn't even there, you just didn't think about that. [01:13:29] Speaker 2: Ms. Hackton. The detectives brought him up first. Ms. Hackton. But you, you ran with the story. Ms. Hackton. I was trying to protect my son. Antoine did not matter. He tortured me to the point where I was in the hospital. Antoine did not matter at that moment, ma'am. [01:13:44] Speaker 1: Ms. Hackton. Okay. So, again, I know that you keep saying that the police put Antoine in your mind, but they didn't put all the extra facts in your mind that you made up throughout your interview, did they? [01:13:57] Speaker 2: Ms. Depends on which facts we're speaking of. [01:13:59] Speaker 1: Ms. They didn't, they didn't tell you that you and him got into a tussle in your archway, did they? [01:14:05] Speaker 2: Ms. No, ma'am. [01:14:08] Speaker 1: Ms. They didn't say that you and him were in a fight and Gavin grabbed the gun, did they? [01:14:13] Speaker 2: Ms. No, ma'am. [01:14:14] Speaker 1: Ms. You were the first one to say that, weren't you? [01:14:15] Speaker 2: Ms. After they brought him up. [01:14:17] Speaker 1: Ms. After they brought? [01:14:18] Speaker 2: Ms. Antoine up. Ms. Okay. [01:14:20] Speaker 1: Ms. You were the first one to say Gavin was the shooter, correct? Ms. The police didn't do that, did they? [01:14:27] Speaker 2: Ms. I don't recall. Ms. Okay. [01:14:29] Speaker 1: Ms. They didn't, they didn't, uh, they didn't say that Antoine went and got the gun from your closet, did they? Ms. You said that, right? [01:14:36] Speaker 2: Ms. I don't recall that either, ma'am. [01:14:39] Speaker 1: Ms. Well, if that's what's on your interview, would that be accurate? Ms. Yes, ma'am. Ms. If you say that, that Antoine went and got the gun from your closet, would that be an accurate statement or an inaccurate statement? [01:14:50] Speaker 2: Ms. I guess accurate. [01:14:52] Speaker 1: Ms. It would be accurate. Ms. Howington, you've just testified he wasn't there. [01:14:56] Speaker 2: Ms. So what are we getting at, ma'am? [01:14:58] Speaker 1: Ms. If you, you, you talked about the fact that Antoine, you made up this whole story that Antoine went and got the gun from your closet and all this stuff, but now we know he wasn't even there, was he? [01:15:09] Speaker 2: Ms. No, he was not there. I was trying to protect my son. You just cannot accept that, ma'am. You cannot accept it. [01:15:18] Speaker 1: Ms. Do you recall being asked by the investigators why you tampered with evidence? [01:15:36] Speaker 3: Ms. Can we clear up and then that closed? [01:15:38] Speaker 1: Ms. First interview, page 41. Ms. In your first interview, do you recall being specifically asked why you would tamper with evidence? [01:15:49] Speaker ?: Ms. No. [01:15:50] Speaker 2: Ms. No. [01:15:52] Speaker 10: Ms. Look there at the bottom. Highlighted question and then the following one. I guess it's not about that. [01:16:08] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes, ma'am. [01:16:10] Speaker 1: Ms. All right. So when asked by Detective Riddle why you would tamper with evidence, you said I didn't want to get in trouble, correct? [01:16:16] Speaker 2: Ms. If I get in trouble, I cannot take care of Gavin. He had just done something that was terrible. So he needs his mother. [01:16:29] Speaker 1: Ms. Howingham, did you say I didn't want to get in trouble? Ms. Yes. [01:16:37] Speaker 6: Ms. Yes. [01:16:38] Speaker 1: Ms. You did not say that you were trying to protect your son, right? Ms. No, ma'am. [01:16:44] Speaker 2: Ms. Nothing further here, ma'am. [01:16:46] Speaker ?: Ms. Freedirect. [01:16:47] Speaker 3: Ms. It's good to ask you, isn't it true that Mr. Wardlaw told you that your responsibility is as a parent to keep the gun safe? Ms. Is that what she said? [01:17:09] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes, sir. [01:17:10] Speaker 3: Ms. And where did you keep the gun? [01:17:12] Speaker 2: Ms. In the black bag in my closet. [01:17:15] Speaker 3: Ms. Did you think that was keeping the gun safe? [01:17:17] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes, sir. [01:17:19] Speaker 3: Ms. And let's clear up something else. Ms. She asked you about, did you ever tell them that Gavin got into the top of that closet by wearing your high-heeled shoes? [01:17:31] Speaker 2: Ms. No. [01:17:32] Speaker 3: Ms. Did you tell them that you knew he could climb up there because he gets up there because he wears your high-heeled shoes? [01:17:41] Speaker 2: Ms. No. Ms. That wasn't the only place that high heels were. [01:17:45] Speaker ?: Ms. Right. [01:17:47] Speaker 3: Ms. Had he done that in the past, worn your high-heeled shoes? Ms. Yes. Ms. Were you suggesting to them that he was wearing those on, was he wearing high-heeled shoes at any time on September 14th? Ms. No, sir. Ms. She asked you, did you ask Callie if he'd left that loaded, cocked weapon somewhere where the kids could get it? Ms. Yes. [01:18:23] Speaker ?: Ms. You hear that? [01:18:24] Speaker 3: Ms. Yes. Ms. Did you know that gun was loaded on September 14th? Ms. No. Ms. Did you know it was cocked on September 14th? [01:18:31] Speaker 2: Ms. No, sir. [01:18:33] Speaker 3: Ms. They asked you whether or not you admitted to what happened on the 12th with you going out to confront him and taking that gun out there? Ms. Yes. Ms. Do you recall that? [01:18:47] Speaker 2: Ms. Yes. [01:18:48] Speaker 3: Ms. Do you recall also telling the officers that it happened on Friday? [01:18:52] Speaker 6: Ms. No. [01:18:54] Speaker 3: Ms. And she asked you about what you were asking? Ms. Asking Callie and Joey to go get that gun from beside the house, is that correct? [01:19:07] Speaker 6: Ms. Yes. [01:19:08] Speaker 3: Ms. And you did that, right? Ms. Yes. Ms. And in that text to Joey, what did you say? [01:19:13] Speaker 6: Ms. Gavin shot yesterday. [01:19:15] Speaker 3: Ms. And that was some moments, minutes after this happened, is that correct? [01:19:19] Speaker 6: Ms. Correct. [01:19:21] Speaker 3: Ms. And then she told you, you know you had gunshot residue on your dress, right? Ms. Yes. Ms. You told them today that you were at the door when you saw the flash? [01:19:34] Speaker 6: Ms. Yes. [01:19:35] Speaker 3: Ms. When you got to the couch, what was Gavin doing? [01:19:40] Speaker 2: Ms. He was sitting there crying on his knees and screaming. [01:19:46] Speaker 3: Ms. Did you do anything with Gavin at that point? Ms. I picked him up. Ms. And I don't know if you were paying attention when the medical examiner was testifying today. Ms. Did you hear her say how long Destiny could have lived after suffering that gunshot? [01:20:07] Speaker 6: Ms. Honestly, I wouldn't want to. [01:20:18] Speaker 3: Ms. That's alright. Ms. But you do know the officer, the first officer has arrived about two minutes after the 911 call. A minute and a half, two minutes, right? [01:20:32] Speaker 6: Ms. Yes, sir. [01:20:34] Speaker 3: Ms. She spent a lot of time with you on what you said during that last statement on September 17th, right? Ms. Yes. Ms. What were you doing directly before that interview? [01:20:47] Speaker 2: Ms. I was planning my daughter's funeral. [01:20:51] Speaker 3: Ms. No further questions, John. You may step down Ms. Allington. [01:21:00] Speaker 4: Call your next witness. [01:21:14] Speaker 3: Ms. Judge of defense for us. Ms. Judge of defense for us.