Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick says gerrymandering is "corrosive" to "our democracy"

[0:05] Welcome back to Face the Nation and the co-chairs of the Bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus. [0:10] Republican Brian Fitzpatrick joins us from Langhorne, Pennsylvania. [0:14] Democrat Tom Swasey from Queens, New York. [0:18] Good morning to you both, gentlemen. [0:21] Good morning. [0:22] I want to start with you, Congressman Fitzpatrick. [0:25] You know, CBS estimates that the net impact of all this redistricting [0:30] is that Republicans are going to get roughly nine seats, [0:34] or get them 90s closer, I should say, to keeping control of the House. [0:39] I mean, presumably that's the outcome the president was looking for here. [0:43] Why are you concerned that, you know, [0:46] driving towards the majority through these methods is actually a negative for your party? [0:53] It's a terrible thing for our country, Margaret. [0:57] Gerrymandering is one of the most, if not the most corrosive things to our democracy that I can imagine. [1:03] Tom and I completely agree with it. [1:05] Our entire Bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus agrees to it. [1:08] We met this past week to start taking measurable steps to fight back. [1:13] Because, you know, part of the challenge, Margaret, is, you know, [1:16] much like how elections are conducted, these district lines, [1:19] it's largely a function of state government and state legislative action. [1:24] The only jurisdictional hook we have on the federal system is funding. [1:28] So, particularly the Help America Vote Act, the so-called HAVA funding that passed after the Bush v. Gore hanging Chad election, [1:36] you know, we can tie that money. [1:37] It's billions of dollars that get sent to the states to carry out their elections. [1:41] We can tie that funding to certain reforms. [1:43] And one of the things that has to happen, only seven states, by the way, do this in America, [1:48] is that independent citizen commissions with computer-generated line drawing assisting them [1:53] to make sure that we have more balanced districts in this country. [1:57] Well, I understand the effort and the intent, but, Congressman Swazi, [2:02] your party's leaders, also gerrymandering, and your group, as we just heard from Congressman Fitzpatrick, [2:10] you're supporting efforts to stop it, but it looks like your members are going to be directly impacted themselves. [2:15] About 45 members of your caucus may face redistricting. [2:21] You've said it's going to kill the country. [2:23] I mean, how does it actually kill the ability to reach across the aisle like you gentlemen are doing? [2:28] What happens is when you create these safe seats through gerrymandering is that the only elections [2:36] that matter are not the general election, but the primary. [2:38] So everybody panders to their base. [2:40] The Republicans talk to their base. [2:41] The Democrats talk to their base instead of talking to all of their constituents about what they care about. [2:47] And there's a lot of pandering that goes on. [2:49] So, you know, we're in this battle right now, this race to the bottom, [2:53] and we're going to fight fire with fire. [2:54] The Democrats are going to fight the Republicans. [2:56] The Republicans are going to fight the Democrats. [2:58] It's bad for America. [2:59] It's bad for America to have all these safe seats where no politician is incentivized [3:05] to listen to people and to reach across the aisle. [3:08] So I misspoke. [3:10] It's 45 members in your caucus. [3:11] More than a dozen of them may be directly impacted. [3:14] But still, I take your broader point here that it's damaging to the ability to work cross aisle. [3:22] But I want to ask you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, from the Republican perspective, [3:26] we just saw what happened overnight down in Louisiana where Senator Bill Cassidy lost in this three-way primary. [3:32] The president himself, the leader of your party who wanted this redistricting, [3:39] has also been directly involved in some of these primary races, picking candidates. [3:45] He came out hard against Cassidy. [3:48] He's also now focusing in on Congressman Thomas Massey of Kentucky, [3:52] who has taken votes in opposition to the president, including for the release of the Epstein files. [3:57] I mean, is the message here for Republicans that if you dissent from the president, he's going to take you down? [4:06] Well, it's one of the many reasons, Margaret, why we need to open primaries up in all 50 states, [4:14] another cause that Tom and I are behind. [4:16] Over half the states in this country have closed primaries, [4:20] meaning that if you're a registered independent, you are excluded from voting in 50 percent of elections. [4:26] And let's just put this in a context. [4:28] You could be a 98-year-old World War II veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy, [4:33] saved civilization, who registers independent in the land of independence, [4:37] which we're celebrating 250 years of, and in half of the states of this country, [4:41] including, unfortunately, our home state here in Pennsylvania. [4:44] If you register independent, you're told you're not welcome to vote in half of elections. [4:48] That is insane. [4:50] And not only is it an injustice, Margaret, it has a terrible corrosive effect on the floor of the House. [4:55] Tom and I see it all the time. [4:56] We call it the vote no, hope yes crowd. [4:58] They go to the House floor wanting to support a policy, knowing that policy is the right thing to do. [5:03] But because they live in a closed primary state and 18 percent of Americans, [5:08] 18 percent of Americans vote in primaries, [5:10] they're going to the House floor thinking about 18 percent of their electorate [5:13] instead of 100 percent of their electorate. [5:16] So closed primaries coupled with gerrymandering, your previous question, [5:19] are really, really hurting our country. [5:21] They're causing gridlock on the House floor. [5:23] Yeah. [5:24] And it would seem, though, that you are really swimming against the tide here, both of you gentlemen. [5:30] I want to ask you, Congressman Swazi, about your- [5:33] Morgan, can I just make one quick? [5:34] Yeah, sure. [5:35] I was going to ask you about your race, but go ahead. [5:36] Let me just make a quick point. [5:39] I'm in a district that Donald Trump won by 19,000 votes. [5:42] Yeah. [5:42] Brian's in a district, and I'm a Democrat. [5:44] Brian's in a district as a Republican that Kamala Harris won. [5:48] For me to win my race, I have to listen to everybody. [5:51] I need the large majority of Democrats to vote for me. [5:54] I need the majority of independents to vote for me. [5:56] I even need a few Republicans to listen to vote for me. [5:59] So I've got to listen to everybody. [6:01] And that's what's good for America is when their elected officials have to listen to their people. [6:05] When you do all this gerrymandering and create all these safe seats, the politicians in the safe seats, most of the elected officials in Congress right now, only have to win their primary because they're guaranteed the Republicans are going to win the Republican seat, the Democrats are going to win the Democratic seat, and then they only listen to their base and they pander to their base. [6:23] That's contributing to the division of our country, along with social media, cable news, our foreign adversaries filling our social media feeds with a bunch of dreck. [6:32] Not going to push back on you on those points here, sir. [6:36] But back to the question I was going to ask you in regard to your race, I know that when it comes to people like you have to go out and persuade, you believe that Democrats can really make a case on the affordability argument. [6:49] We've been talking about the polling that CBS has done showing how worrisome it is for the president's party. [6:56] But it also shows neither Democrats nor Republicans own the message. [7:02] It's pretty evenly split. [7:03] 35% say Democrats would be better. [7:05] It's 31% who think Trump or Republicans who would be. [7:09] 34% neither or not sure. [7:13] No one's really convinced that either of the parties have an answer here. [7:17] So how do you actually make that an edge? [7:21] Yeah, there's no question that this is a major problem. [7:23] Affordability is the number one issue in America. [7:25] Your polling just shows that. [7:27] And we see prices are going up like crazy. [7:29] Why? [7:29] Because of the tariffs, because of the war, because of the new data centers, and because of all the debt. [7:34] And we have to propose policies that Democrats and Republicans will work together. [7:40] You know, the tariff issue, the president's supposed to come to Congress. [7:45] The war powers. [7:46] The president's supposed to come to Congress. [7:47] Let's work together to actually put solutions in place so we can get back to a place in America where everybody, whether you're a left-wing progressive or a right-wing conservative, you believe that in return for working hard, you make enough money so you can afford to buy a house, educate your kids, pay for health insurance, and retire without being scared. [8:03] We've got to get back to those basic, fundamental messages. [8:08] Enough with the finger-pointing and the culture wars. [8:10] Let's focus on the economics of people's lives so we can rebuild the middle class and help those folks that are aspiring to the middle class. [8:17] But in some ways, that polling, Congressman Fitzpatrick, says people want something different from what they're hearing from both of the parties. [8:24] They're not hearing new ideas. [8:27] Go ahead. [8:29] Yeah. [8:30] Over half of the people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. [8:33] A lot of the things that are being discussed inside the state capitals across America, inside the U.S. Capitol, is not laser-focused on that all day, every day. [8:42] You know, yes, we have to focus on national security. [8:44] Yes, we have to focus on foreign policy. [8:46] We've got to do it all. [8:47] Yeah. [8:47] But we cannot ignore the fact that half of Americans are stressing over their family budgets, and that's got to drive the legislative agenda. [8:55] I believe that it was that reason that, you know, President Trump won in 2024. [9:00] I think that's why Zoran Mandami won in 2025, and I think both parties, Margaret, are failing to get that message that we have to focus like a laser on the economy, on these family budgets, and identify the silos. [9:13] What's causing high energy costs? [9:15] What's causing high child care costs? [9:16] What's causing high health care costs? [9:18] Tom and I stepped forward through a discharge petition and passed through the House, the premium tax credit extension. [9:25] We're trying to do our part to cross the aisle, to work in the center, to focus on the issues that people really care about, which is the kitchen table issues. [9:33] Well, to that point, President Trump told my colleague Nancy Cordes that he endorsed a federal gas tax holiday. [9:40] I believe it still would have to go before Congress. [9:42] Would both of you gentlemen vote for that, suspending it? [9:48] I think, you know, we have to consider it's a short-term fix. [9:51] It's going to affect the – yeah, it's a short-term fix. [9:55] We've really got to get to – the president's got to come to Congress to discuss the war and how to move forward to get out of the war and to affect the gas prices. [10:05] That's the real issue here. [10:06] The tariffs are what are really affecting people's prices. [10:10] Come to Congress. [10:11] Work with Democrats and Republicans. [10:13] Let's try and move our country forward. [10:17] Congress – [10:17] Margaret, my answer to that question – so we work with a lot with the labor unions. [10:24] They've expressed some concerns about this federal gas tax holiday, that it might raid the Highway Transit Fund, which they rely on heavily for all the local infrastructure and national infrastructure projects, for that matter. [10:35] So I think the devil is in the detail. [10:37] When we say federal gas tax holiday, where is that money coming from? [10:40] That's really going to be the driving question. [10:42] Yes, we want to do everything possible to lower gas prices, but we don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul. [10:46] So we have to look at the details here. [10:48] Quickly, before I let you go, Congressman Fitzpatrick, you're a big supporter of Ukraine. [10:52] You did get some additional support for additional assistance when it comes to the House. [10:58] This is like a vote on authorizing new security aid and imposing new sanctions on Russia. [11:04] Even after the House votes, we're hearing in the Senate from Leader Thun, he's got no time to take it up. [11:11] What do you do next? [11:12] We're going to do everything we can, Margaret, to make sure they find time to take it up, because the heroes that are on the front lines of the Ukrainian military in Kharkiv and everywhere else along the eastern coast of Ukraine need our help. [11:29] They need the morale boost. [11:30] I've been there on the front lines several times. [11:33] I have pledged my unequivocal support for them. [11:36] We reached 218 signatures, as you know, this week on a massive, massive discharge petition that is far greater than even just Russia sanctions. [11:44] That's a big piece of it, but it's an overall aid package to Ukraine. [11:47] So my message to our Ukrainian friends, help is on the way. [11:50] All right. [11:51] Gentlemen, thank you for speaking to us in this bipartisan setting. [11:54] Appreciate it.