Rahm Emanuel weighs in on the future of the U.S.-Israel relationship

[0:00] We go now to the former mayor of Chicago [0:03] and the former U.S. ambassador to Japan, [0:06] Rahm Emanuel. [0:07] Welcome to Face the Nation, Ambassador. [0:09] Thanks, Margaret. [0:11] I have so much to get to with you, [0:12] but I know you worked with Senator Lindsey Graham [0:16] for a time here in Washington. [0:18] You weren't exactly on the same page politically, [0:20] but I wonder your thoughts on his passing. [0:23] Good observation. [0:25] No, look, you lost a patriot. [0:27] We disagreed, but we weren't disagreeable about it. [0:30] There were three things we worked on. [0:31] One, he represented John McCain. [0:33] I represented then-Senator Obama on the debate rules. [0:37] Two, when we had a meeting during the transition, [0:41] Senator McCain, Lindsey, the president-elect, myself, [0:44] we agreed to work on a national service bill, [0:46] which we actually got done in spring 2009 [0:48] that doubled the size for AmeriCorps and for the Peace Corps. [0:51] And then third, our final, [0:53] which was really the most difficult, [0:54] but we got to an agreement, [0:55] which was to close Guantanamo. [0:57] It was Senator Levin, Lindsey, [1:00] myself, representing the administration. [1:01] We got to a final issue. [1:04] The attorney general was against it, [1:06] which was the trial of the sheik, [1:08] which he wanted civilian. [1:11] Lindsey said it had to be military court [1:13] to get the 15 votes. [1:15] That's not what happened. [1:16] And so therefore, [1:17] and it was one political analysis, [1:20] which I thought was accurate, [1:22] versus a legal analysis, [1:23] which was maybe by the law, [1:25] but wasn't going to happen. [1:25] And so we worked at my desk as the chief of staff, [1:29] I don't know, [1:29] the dozen meetings between Carl Levin, [1:32] myself, and the senator, [1:33] that would actually have closed Guantanamo, [1:37] moved all the prisoners out, [1:38] and brought that chapter to America to end. [1:42] Now, did we see everything 100%? [1:44] No. [1:44] Did we find compromise? [1:45] Absolutely. [1:46] Yeah. [1:48] Well, Ambassador, [1:49] we need to take a break [1:50] and finish our conversation [1:51] about the significant speech [1:52] you just gave in Israel a few days ago, [1:55] but we're going to do that in a minute. [1:56] I hope everyone will stay with us. [1:58] We will be right back. [2:04] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [2:06] We continue our conversation now [2:07] with Ambassador Rahm Emanuel. [2:10] Ambassador, [2:10] you are just back from a trip overseas. [2:13] Your family, I know, [2:14] has deep ties to Israel. [2:16] You worked during the Clinton administration, [2:18] the Obama administration, [2:19] on important Mideast issues. [2:21] In this speech, [2:22] you just delivered. [2:24] You were very critical [2:25] of Palestinian authorities' leadership failures. [2:28] You faulted Arab states [2:30] for not doing more [2:31] in a credible way [2:32] for the Palestinian people. [2:34] And then you took aim [2:35] at Prime Minister Netanyahu, [2:37] saying he has led his country [2:39] into a dead end. [2:41] What do you hope you accomplished? [2:45] Well, it was not just a criticism. [2:47] All those are clear, [2:49] and I will have stated that. [2:49] I also said the United States [2:50] made mistakes in the past. [2:52] But I laid out a plan [2:53] that gets out of Israel [2:54] being a pariah. [2:55] It's went from a technological prowess [2:57] to a territorial pariah. [3:00] And for a small nation, [3:01] that's not survivable. [3:02] In 22 years, [3:03] it will be 100 years old. [3:04] You cannot survive like this. [3:06] So one, [3:07] not a two-state solution, [3:08] a 23-state solution, [3:10] taking the Arab League's offer [3:11] to recognize the state of Israel, [3:13] all 21 nations, [3:14] if they come to an agreement [3:15] on security for the state of Israel, [3:17] which is essential, [3:18] and Palestinian sovereignty. [3:20] That's Israel's best day [3:22] and Iran's worst day. [3:24] Second, [3:25] building off the India-Mideast-European [3:28] economic corridor, [3:28] which would be [3:29] the most important trade route, [3:30] and put Israel's technological prowess [3:32] at the center, [3:33] break into the economic integration [3:35] that's happening. [3:36] So that was a plan. [3:38] Others can offer theirs. [3:39] But to me, [3:40] it addresses the single most important thing [3:42] for the future of this alliance, [3:44] that you cannot reduce [3:46] your national security apparatus [3:47] with military power, [3:48] economic, statecraft, [3:51] political persuasion, [3:52] and cultural attraction. [3:53] Reduce three of them [3:54] and let them atrophy, [3:56] and your entire national security apparatus [3:57] is only military power. [3:59] And that's an example [4:00] of how Israel has a breakout. [4:02] That is good for alliance. [4:03] The United States is strong with NATO. [4:05] You can see that in the public opinion. [4:06] The United States public opinion [4:07] is also strong with our Asian allies. [4:09] This is the only ally [4:10] that is in the low 20s in support. [4:13] That is not a sustainable path [4:14] for an alliance that's essential [4:16] for Israel, America, security. [4:19] You said the current Israeli government, [4:22] the Netanyahu government, [4:24] views every security challenge as a nail [4:26] and Israel's military as a hammer. [4:29] That sounded very similar, [4:30] to me at least, to this. [4:32] Listen. [4:34] You're a country of 9 million people. [4:36] You can't just kill your way [4:39] out of solving every single [4:41] national security problem that you have. [4:44] I imagine there aren't a lot of points [4:45] of agreement between you [4:46] and the vice president, J.D. Vance. [4:48] But do you see this? [4:50] Correct. [4:50] On the right and left [4:51] as a major shift in policy here [4:54] for the United States [4:56] that does not turn around? [4:58] So two things, Margaret. [5:00] In 2009, when I challenged, [5:03] as chief of staff for President Obama, [5:04] I challenged the prime minister directly, [5:07] not, I didn't need this war, [5:10] directly, that what you're doing [5:11] on housing in the West Bank [5:12] will lead to perpetual conflict [5:15] and isolation. [5:16] If there was a prediction [5:17] I wanted to be wrong on, [5:18] that was it. [5:19] So telling somebody the truth, [5:22] even when it's painful, [5:22] that's not new to me. [5:24] I was also in the room [5:25] with President Obama [5:26] when we funded and started funding [5:28] the Iron Dome that has protected [5:30] thousands of Israeli civilians. [5:32] I believe funding the Iron Dome [5:35] is right for America's strategy, [5:36] right for Israel. [5:37] I think making sure [5:38] that you're not having a, [5:40] undermining the West Bank [5:42] or the possibility [5:43] of a two-state solution, [5:44] a 23-state solution [5:45] is also in Israel's security interest. [5:47] And I want to get back to, [5:48] those go hand in hand. [5:50] And so my view is, [5:52] take Syria, for example. [5:54] There's no more Assad. [5:56] You have a head of Syria [5:57] that is the transitway [5:58] to Hezbollah from Iran [5:59] of all their weapons. [6:00] The Syrian head of state [6:02] has said that he, [6:04] Iran is a problem [6:05] and that Israel and he [6:07] should have a security agreement. [6:09] Nobody's called. [6:10] I said, [6:10] I'll pay for the phone call charges. [6:12] Pick up the phone [6:13] and come to a security agreement [6:15] where your northern part, [6:17] Jordan is secure on the east, [6:19] Egypt is secure on the south. [6:21] Syria, you would actually [6:22] have a security agreement. [6:23] That breaks out. [6:25] Diplomacy, political strategy, [6:27] is dormant as a part [6:28] of Israel's national security. [6:29] And that, therefore, [6:31] harms the United States. [6:32] My number one goal, [6:33] what advances America's interest? [6:35] If they don't change, [6:37] the status quo today [6:38] is unsustainable. [6:40] I did it in the interests [6:41] of America, [6:42] the alliance with an ally [6:43] that is isolated politically [6:44] at home and abroad. [6:46] And to your point, [6:47] I was in Syria in September [6:48] and I saw the parts of Damascus [6:51] that were bombed [6:52] by the Netanyahu government [6:53] very recently. [6:55] And you would cut off Hezbollah. [6:56] You would cut off Hezbollah [6:58] from Iranian weapons. [6:59] That's in your national security. [7:01] Well, Trump might be trying [7:01] to do that. [7:02] That doesn't require the military. [7:03] Trump may be trying [7:04] to do that. [7:05] Again, I offer my telephone card, [7:07] AT&T. [7:08] You can use it anytime. [7:09] They can make a call [7:10] to Damascus. [7:11] But bringing you back here [7:12] to home, [7:14] when I just finished [7:15] that conversation [7:15] with the current Israeli ambassador [7:17] to the United States, [7:18] who, by the way, [7:18] very much supports [7:19] Israeli settlements [7:20] in the West Bank, [7:21] as you know, [7:22] he did take a hit there [7:24] at those trying [7:25] to launch presidential campaigns [7:27] from his country. [7:28] He was speaking [7:29] about Representative Ro Khanna [7:31] and what happened to him [7:33] in the West Bank. [7:34] But some are saying [7:35] that about you too, sir. [7:36] I mean, how do you respond [7:38] to that? [7:38] And do you agree [7:39] with words like apartheid [7:41] and genocide [7:41] that progressive Democrats [7:43] like Khanna use [7:44] to talk about [7:44] the current Israeli government? [7:47] Second, I was invited [7:48] by Tel Aviv University. [7:49] So I took it up. [7:51] And I didn't just [7:52] offer criticism. [7:53] I offered a plan for peace. [7:56] Second, I go back [7:57] to working on this [7:58] with President Clinton [8:00] on both the Oslo Accords, [8:02] the Y Plantation, [8:03] Camp David, [8:03] and with President Obama. [8:05] And third, [8:06] if it comes to where you start [8:08] or how you do, [8:09] I haven't decided [8:10] whether I was going [8:11] to run for president. [8:11] But the first thing I did [8:12] was go to Mississippi [8:13] that has moved [8:14] from 49th to 9th [8:15] on reading scores. [8:16] I have made education [8:17] the score. [8:18] We as a country, [8:19] 50% of our kids [8:21] cannot read at grade level. [8:23] And we know [8:23] everybody in Washington [8:24] is radio silence [8:25] on the future [8:26] of this country. [8:27] So if there's going [8:27] to be a place, [8:28] it wasn't the Middle East. [8:30] It was actually [8:30] down in Mississippi [8:31] where I went. [8:33] That is where [8:33] the future of America is. [8:35] Now, one thing I know, [8:37] Margaret, [8:37] about the White House, [8:38] you have to be good [8:39] in the Situation Room, [8:40] the Board Room, [8:41] the Break Room, [8:42] and the Classroom. [8:43] And the problem [8:44] for both parties [8:45] is one stuck in the bathroom [8:46] and the other one [8:46] stuck in the bedroom. [8:47] Get out and focus [8:48] on the future. [8:50] Ambassador, [8:50] we'll leave it there. [8:51] Look forward to having [8:52] you back to talk more. [8:53] We'll be right back.