Pete Hegseth under fire: Is impeachment warranted? — CUOMO Full Show

[0:03] All right. Chris Cuomo joins me now. His show starts in about 20 seconds. You're about to speak with two congressmen, one on each side of the aisle, about the articles of impeachment against Secretary of War Pete Hegseth. That vote's scheduled for Wednesday. [0:18] Yeah. I mean, look, what's surprising here is not that they're going after Hegseth. It's that it was a Republican. So, you know, we'll see what happens. There are a lot of moves yet to be made here. And I'll take everybody through it right now. [0:29] Okay. All right. Have a good show. All right. Thank you, Elizabeth. Cuomo here. Developing story on our watch. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is up for impeachment. The surprising part is that it's not the Democrats. Outgoing Speaker Mike Johnson saved Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth from an impeachment earlier this year. But now fellow Republican Representative Thomas Massey reintroduced the resolution today and in a special way. Watch. [0:55] Peter Brian Hegseth thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States. I yield back. [1:12] The eight articles stem from the Iran war and the drug boats that were destroyed in the Caribbean and overseas. Interestingly, Massey and whomever is with him on this also targeted the secretary and the administration for ignoring laws that minimize civilian casualties. [1:25] This is interesting. Hegseth allegedly dismantled civilian protection safeguards and oversaw a targeting system that resulted in more than 200 civilians killed or injured at the Minab school in Iran. [1:38] That's a reference to all those dead kids. Remember, MAGA never owned up to that. Never. [1:43] Article 5. The drug boats are an allegation that what seemed like a handful of attacks that we all watched was much more lethal. [1:51] Massey's document says at least 243 people were killed, including shipwrecked survivors were denied rescue. [2:00] There's also an article of impeachment in there for suppressing free speech because of how they targeted Senator Mark Kelly. [2:05] You may remember Hegseth said he went after Kelly saying, well, he's still in the service and he's under those rules and he can't say these kinds of things when Kelly was saying, you know, military members can refuse illegal orders. [2:18] Another one is Article 7. The kidnapping of a sovereign foreign leader. That's the Maduro situation, which is, you know, again, look, these are all political actions, right? [2:31] It's not about, well, what law and what, you know, you know what I mean? [2:34] High crimes and misdemeanors don't have to be crimes or misdemeanors. Really? Why? Because it's a political operation. [2:40] Now, who said that? A Republican, Gerald Ford. He said that an impeachable offense is whatever they vote for. And that is true. [2:48] It takes us to Article 8. Unlawful war in Yemen. That Operation Roughrider is without congressional authorization, not subject to an imminent threat, and therefore illegal on its face, [3:00] and then continued without timely notice to Congress, illegal again. And those strikes killed 224 civilians. [3:09] So the move forces a House vote by Wednesday. That's the clever part of this by Massey. [3:15] So he's going to make them figure out what to do. And there are basically two options. One is Johnson. One is Trump. All right. [3:21] You also have the Senate and whether or not they have a trial. But these are the first two things to watch in the next few days. [3:26] Will Johnson, Mr. Rule by the Good Book, put it up for a vote, an up or down vote? That's dicey. [3:34] Because you do have Republicans who are going out who are very against the war. [3:38] Does he put up a vote to put it to committee? Because then Jordan can hold it hostage until the Democrats take over. [3:45] But is that what Trump wants? Because, look, if you put it in committee, then hopefully Hegseth serves out his term. [3:54] But just in case, is there a chance that the president removes Hegseth to spare him an up or down impeachment vote if the whip shows that they may lose? [4:07] OK, so and by the way, if this does happen, and I think it's a fairly good if right now, like big if meaning unlikely, [4:14] this would be the first time in history that an executive branch official was impeached, coming almost entirely from the House minority. [4:23] And it would be done without the House investigating or establishing a factual record for the Senate to consider at trial. [4:28] This is a quickie, right? So what's the chance? [4:33] Let's discuss it with a member of each side right now. [4:36] On the House Oversight Committee, Democrat Congressman Suhas Subramaniam and Republican Member of Congress Marlon Stutzman. [4:43] It's good to have you both. Suhas, did you know about this? [4:47] Yeah, we, he tried to do this before we adjourned for the campaign. [4:53] And so we knew it was coming as soon as we came back. [4:57] And what do you think happens? Well, let me ask, let me ask Stutzman to get in on this. [5:02] What do you think Johnson does? [5:05] Well, you know, first of all, I think it's a waste of time because, you know, we just got beaten badly as Republicans because of affordability. [5:12] And yet we're going to be talking about a decision that this is the commander in chief's decision. [5:17] So I think Johnson's going to, you know, he'll, he'll, you know, watch how the vote count comes down. [5:22] I wouldn't be surprised there'd be some Republicans that would vote with all the Democrats to impeach Hegseth. [5:28] So I think we got to manage it wisely and be careful with it because there's probably a chance of it passing if it was just a simple vote on the floor. [5:35] Hey, Suhas, do you think it's obviously a commander in chief call? [5:41] No, I mean, Congress doesn't work for the president. [5:44] And that's what was made clear this past Tuesday was that people wanted a Congress that was a co-equal branch of government. [5:51] And so in this case, Hegseth has broken the law repeatedly. [5:55] He has not been fit to serve as secretary of defense and he ought to be impeached. [6:00] And I think Congress's job is to impeach someone, the executive branch, who is breaking the law. [6:05] Well, you know, what I was saying is that Hegseth answers to the president. [6:11] Yeah, Hegseth answers to the president. [6:13] He doesn't answer, I mean, he does answer to Congress in some sense. [6:16] But, you know, the commander in chief makes the decision regarding whether it's Venezuela, whether it was the drug boats or whether it was Iran. [6:24] So I think this is the president's decision to support Hegseth and it looks like he's going to. [6:28] So I really think this is, again, it's a waste of time. [6:31] We should be focusing on affordability. [6:32] I was in the chair today when Thomas Massey brought the impeachment articles to the floor. [6:39] And right after that particular incident, we talked about nuclear power. [6:44] And it's a bipartisan, it had bipartisan support. [6:47] So here we have bipartisan support to help the American people lower energy costs. [6:52] But yet Thomas Massey, who lost in his primary, has been running against the Republicans for the last two years, unfortunately. [6:59] Well, he's been running for transparency for the Epstein files and against what he thought was an illegal war and illegal tariffs. [7:05] And the Supreme Court told him he was right about the tariffs. [7:08] The war was absolutely on the ballot. [7:11] I think it's six in ten voters said that. [7:13] Marlon, are you seeing exit polls that I'm missing? [7:17] Oh, no, I mean, I think it was the gas prices that cost us the election. [7:20] It was just the affordability. [7:21] People are tired. [7:23] And you know what? [7:23] I mean, Republicans lost. [7:24] I'm not going to say that, you know, there was something else out there and that the American people were wrong, because they're not. [7:30] The fact is that a lot of the bills that we passed out of the House as Republicans are sitting over in the Senate. [7:35] The Senate didn't move bills that would have also helped make a difference for the American people. [7:39] So it's our loss. [7:41] And it's something that we're going to have to earn the American people's trust back. [7:44] But in this case of the war, if I think most Americans would say, if you can take out the IRGC, keep America safe from a nuclear bomb from the IRGC, and not have gas prices go up, we'd be fine with that. [7:57] But every time people drove into the gas station, they were reminded of that cost of gas. [8:03] The Iran war is part of the affordability. [8:04] None of those things happened. [8:06] The Suhas, isn't the problem that none of those things happened? [8:09] The IRGC is very much in control. [8:11] We don't know what's going on with the nukes. [8:13] That became very clear from the president's most recent interview. [8:16] And the gas prices went up. [8:18] The IRGC is even more empowered because of this war. [8:21] Now they have more leverage with the Strait of Hormuz, right? [8:24] We had a deal in place. [8:26] We had several deals in place where we could have addressed the nuclear issue. [8:30] But the war had everything to do with affordability as well. [8:33] That's why diesel prices are high, is because of the war in Iran, as well as the lack of initiative by this president to hold Putin and Russia accountable in the Ukraine-Russia war as well. [8:43] And so we can't just talk about affordability without mentioning the Iran war. [8:48] It's something that we were talking about on the trail, and the American people voted. [8:52] But priorities, priorities. [8:54] Again, Massey is not a Democrat, no matter how pissed off he is at MAGA. [8:57] But do you like this as a Democrat's first move out of the box to own, as opposed to asking the president to pull back ICE, asking the president to end the war? [9:09] Should this be seen as your guys' first move? [9:12] Well, it's not our move. First of all, Massey's a Republican. [9:16] But second of all, the new Congress hasn't started yet, so we are not in control. [9:20] We don't have the majority right now, so we don't set the agenda. [9:23] I would love to have a conversation with Republicans about increasing affordability and making sure that, you know, working families are taken care of and that we address jobs. [9:33] But we had a year and a half, almost two years, to talk about that. [9:37] But every week, I came into Congress, and there's another bill to actually raise costs, actually give the president more tariff authority, continue the Iran war, continue what was going on in this administration and how it's affecting American people. [9:49] So we haven't addressed those. [9:51] We will in the new Congress. [9:52] What does Stephen Miller mean for you, Marlon, in terms of what you think the marching orders are going to be? [10:01] Yeah, well, first of all, I'd like to just respond to that. [10:03] I think that, you know, at the end of the day, in nuclear Iran, we are always talking about how Iran is the leading state sponsor of terrorism. [10:11] But nobody wants to do anything about it until President Trump finally decided that they are enough of a threat that he's going to do something about it. [10:18] And so I think in the long run, history is going to say that President Trump made a smart decision by taking them out. [10:24] And second of all, there's not much of a war going on right now. [10:27] I mean, when is Iran attacking our troops? [10:30] When is Iran attacking anywhere in the Middle East, for that matter? [10:33] I just, you know, dropped my son off at Army National Guard base this last week. [10:38] I was talking to some of the guys there. [10:39] They're like, this war is winding down. [10:41] There's really not much more going on. [10:44] So, you know, I don't think you can even call it a war to the extent that people would like to think that it is. [10:49] So I think that we're going the right direction, and history is going to show it out. [10:53] Your question about Stephen Miller, I think, you know, part of the problem that we had in this last election is that we lost Latinos. [11:00] And Latinos were a big part of the coalition that President Trump put together in 2024. [11:07] And Stephen Miller was the architect of the deportations. [11:11] Well, because of deportations and the appearance of it. [11:15] You know, actually, Chris, and you may know this already, you know, President Obama deported 3.3 million Americans. [11:22] And President Trump, President, and I think that's the difference. [11:26] President Trump and the administration were right around 2.7. [11:30] But it's the way that it's done. [11:31] And that's why I say we as Republicans, we have to do the job, but we need to do it in a way that we realize the American people are watching, and we are empathetic towards certain circumstances. [11:42] There is, you know, a lady who's been here from Mexico since 20 years, you know, 20 years ago. [11:47] Her husband brought her across, and then he leaves her. [11:49] She's stuck here. [11:50] So that's why I think there needs to be something. [11:52] And I was really glad that President Trump talked about that last night on 60 Minutes about doing something. [11:57] And I think Republicans should be the one to do it. [11:59] Yeah, I do. [12:01] Marlon, do you know how offensive that is to the people watching this show right now? [12:07] Now you give a damn when you've been breaking up families, deporting American citizens, beating the piss out of them in the streets and saying nothing? [12:15] But now, when the president says it last night? [12:18] No, not me. [12:20] You're here right now. [12:21] You're making it sound like this is a new issue, Marlon. [12:23] No, no. [12:25] In fact, I was one of the sponsors of the Dignity Act. [12:28] I'm one of the most conservative members in Congress, and I've been saying we need to do something for those people who have been here for five years, 10 years, 15 years. [12:38] There's got to be a path to legalization. [12:40] No citizenship, but a path to a point where they don't have to look over their shoulder. [12:44] I signed on to the Dignity Act early on, and it didn't affect my numbers in my district. [12:50] In fact, I hear from a lot of builders and farmers and folks in construction. [12:54] It's over 75% of American people believe that if you've been here a long time and lived the right way, there should be criteria where you can stay. [13:01] 75%. [13:02] It's not what Stephen Miller says. [13:04] Suhas, where is that on the agenda? [13:05] How high? [13:08] ICE accountability is very high on our agenda. [13:11] And, you know, the president, he talked a big game about perhaps working with Democrats right after the election. [13:16] And yet, by appointing Stephen Miller, that shows me he's going to do the opposite. [13:21] And, in fact, he's going to double down on the cruelty of ICE and double down on the lawlessness in this administration. [13:27] So, to me, Stephen Miller being appointed chief of staff and running the entire administration shows me that this president has not learned from Tuesday's election. [13:36] Well, I'll tell you what. [13:38] I hear you say, Marlon, I don't think so. [13:40] I hope you're right. [13:42] The question is, will you say anything this time if he is wrong? [13:48] I did. [13:49] I mean, I have been. [13:50] You know, I mean, that's the thing. [13:51] There are Republicans that did not like the way the deportations were being handled. [13:57] And that's, you know, when Tom Homan came in and took over, things settled back down. [14:01] So, you have to have the right people in the right places. [14:04] They did. [14:04] You think they settled down? [14:06] You mean in Minnesota they settled down? [14:09] Yeah, but look, I don't care about you taking it on the chin. [14:11] We took it on the chin for this. [14:12] I don't care. [14:12] Marlon, Marlon, I don't care. [14:14] It's not about you. [14:16] It's about how things get better for the American people. [14:19] You know what I mean? [14:21] That's all I'm saying. [14:21] Right. [14:22] Is the violence in the streets has to stop. [14:24] That's why Republicans need to come back. [14:25] Women shouldn't get grabbed by guys in flak jackets and thrown across the street because [14:29] they're standing in front of his car. [14:31] That's what you should be saying. [14:32] That's all I'm saying. [14:33] I got to jump. [14:34] Let's see if it gets better. [14:34] No, no, that's... [14:35] The country wants it to. [14:36] That's why I came out and said something. [14:38] That message is there. [14:38] Yep, absolutely. [14:39] That message is there. [14:41] So, we'll see. [14:42] We'll see. [14:43] Suha Subramaniam, thank you. [14:44] When you're on your watch, I do think you guys should go to him about ICE now. [14:48] You don't have to wait to be in the majority for that. [14:50] But we'll see what moves you make after you guys get your leadership, and we'll be watching. [14:54] Marlon Stutzman, thank you for being here. [14:55] You're always welcome. [14:56] Four minutes and 50 seconds. [14:58] Coming up, I got Governor Wes Moore. [15:01] Interesting. [15:02] What does the midterm mean to him about what should be happening in Congress as priorities? [15:09] And what does it mean to him personally about where the country seems poised and what that means about what he wants to do? [15:17] So, the first 100 days for the Democrats and the next, I don't know, 200 days for him. [15:24] Next. [15:24] Maryland Governor Wes Moore just won his re-election as governor in Maryland, obviously, and broke his own record for the most votes a governor has received in Maryland's history. [15:43] Now, what I don't think is fair is that win is being seen as, well, he's a beneficiary of what happened in the midterms. [15:49] Kind of, except that the Democrats were being gifted an opportunity because of a rejection of MAGA. [15:56] That's not the case with Wes because he was already governor, so he was rewarded for the job that he's doing, okay? [16:04] So, what does he mean the mandate means for the Democrats? [16:07] And what does this kind of mood in the country mean for him? [16:11] The Maryland Governor, Wes Moore, joins me now. [16:13] It's good to see you. [16:16] Great to see you, Chris. [16:17] Thanks so much. [16:18] Now, Gov, let me just get one thing out of the way. [16:22] It is Movember. [16:23] That's why this is on my face. [16:25] I don't want to see the smile. [16:27] I don't want to see it, all right? [16:29] I don't want to see it. [16:31] You're doing it. [16:32] I'm doing it. [16:33] I'm raising money for the fire department. [16:34] I don't want to see it, all right? [16:36] So, just have your moment, okay? [16:38] Now it's over. [16:39] Now, let me, because I saw what you were doing. [16:40] It looks good on you. [16:42] It looks good on you. [16:44] It looked good on you. [16:45] It's the first time you lied to me. [16:46] It's the first time you lied to me, Governor Moore. [16:48] Now I know what it sounds like. [16:49] All right, let me ask you this. [16:51] I've been watching your takes on this, and I think that you have been good at getting ahead of the gloating [16:58] and saying, yeah, yeah, it's only as good as what we do with it. [17:02] How fast do you have to come out of the box, and what should that look like in Congress now, even pre-being seated in January? [17:13] Well, I think that we'd be making a mistake to think that last Tuesday was a pat on the back. [17:18] It wasn't a pat on the back. [17:20] It was, we need you guys to get to work, and we need you guys to actually work together to get things done. [17:25] You know, I think people were tired and they're frustrated. [17:30] They were frustrated by the fact that inflation is at a five-year high and grocery prices, you know, were higher, [17:37] and the fact that gas prices are exploding because of wars that we did not ask for [17:43] and wars that we do not understand and have not been explained to us, [17:46] that people were upset by the amount of grifting that we have seen inside of this White House [17:51] and the fact that we have a president who has made billions of dollars since he's been back in office [17:55] and a Congress that is still allowed to stock trade. [17:58] So, yes, people are upset by all these different things, [18:02] and that's why I think that we don't need to come in with a 100-day plan. [18:07] You literally have to come in with a 100-hour plan. [18:10] And how are you going to address the pain that people have been expressively saying [18:14] that has been deeply problematic in their lives and needs to be fixed and now? [18:18] So you think they should come out with, like, a panoply of bills, [18:22] and would that look like affordability and accountability at the same time, [18:26] or are you worried about flooding the zone? [18:31] I don't think you can flood the zone when what we've seen for the American people is [18:35] their zones have been flooded over these past two years. [18:38] They have watched how people have been hit every which way. [18:42] You know, we have watched how in the state, in Maryland, [18:45] we've had over 31,000 people fired, more than any other state in this country. [18:49] You know, federal workers who have been fired. [18:52] We've seen how we have our farmers who have been absolutely crushed by these tariffs [18:58] and to see how the price of all of these goods has now risen. [19:03] And I have people who are fourth and fifth and sixth generation farmers in Maryland [19:07] who now don't know if they can survive the next six months. [19:10] I've got housing developers. [19:11] We're working hard to make sure we're building more affordable housing and fast inside of the state of Maryland. [19:16] And what people are saying is they're like between the tariffs that's causing everything from steel and lumber to be more expensive [19:23] to watching how our immigration policy is making it more difficult for us to keep workers. [19:29] You know, people are not, they are getting hit every which way. [19:32] Their zones are getting flooded. [19:33] And so we have to make sure that we are doing everything in our power to flood the zone, to make their life easier. [19:40] And we should not have to choose between accountability for those who've been breaking the law [19:43] and making sure we're stressing affordability for the people of this country. [19:48] What's the feel in the party? [19:50] It's hard to deny success. [19:52] So does that mean Jeffries and Schumer stay because look at the results? [19:56] Or are the people inside the party who are saying, well, this is really about us, more to the left, saying, and we don't like them. [20:04] So they don't really reflect us. [20:06] And we're really the momentum behind the change for the Democrats. [20:09] What do you think of that? [20:12] Well, I think the leadership that you're going to see in Congress, that is a D.C. game. [20:17] And frankly, it's going to be a D.C. decision. [20:20] But here's what I do know. [20:22] There was just historic victories that just took place in both the House of Representatives and in the Senate. [20:29] And those victories do not happen if it were not for Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer. [20:35] The fact that we even are talking about a majority, you have to be able to give credit to the people who were leading during that time to make it past. [20:43] And I can tell you, as the governor of Maryland, I can specifically tell you that we have benefited from the leadership that we've seen from Hakeem Jeffries [20:51] and who has really stood by us in challenging times. [20:54] And so, you know, I, again, that is a D.C. question and a D.C. game in terms of how they're going to vote. [20:59] But what I know is this, is I'm not sure that this is what the American people asked us to be debating days after giving us the election results that we got. [21:10] Well, look, Thomas Massey brought up the Hakeem Jeff thing, the impeachment that just came there. [21:16] But do you think that's what the American people wanted to see? [21:18] Yeah. I mean, listen, Pete Hexeth shouldn't be in that seat, right? [21:26] I mean, you know, of the fleet of unqualified and unserious people that, frankly, are sitting there, Pete Hexeth might be the admiral, right? [21:37] This is someone who should have never gotten the approval in the first place, if we're just being very honest. [21:41] And so do I think that there needs to be real accountability that's coming to the secretary of defense in this moment? [21:48] I do. And I do think that we are going to see when this is taking place that there is going to be a bipartisan, a bipartisan consensus to be able to make sure that there is real accountability that's taking place in the Department of, you know, in the Department of Defense. [22:02] I know as military veterans, that for myself as a military veteran, and I know a lot of the military veterans who I serve with have real fundamental problems in the way that he has run the department. [22:13] And as Thomas Massey even said earlier, that we are going to look into whether they go into the bounds of illegality. [22:20] But I do think this needs to happen. And frankly, whether it happens during a lame duck or whether it happens when they return back to Congress in January, these days are coming. [22:31] Do you think that, what do you think of this move? And just tell me, I don't like it, if you don't like it. [22:35] What if the Democrats were to go to Trump and say, look, your boy's going to lose the vote. [22:41] Give him a send off, do whatever you want to do, remove him so that we don't have to focus on this. [22:48] And we'll, let's work together to get ice to stop beating people up in the streets. [22:53] What do you think of that kind of move? Or do you believe that the Democrats can't be in a position of looking that cooperative with Trump? [23:02] Well, one is, I actually don't think that calling for accountability, demanding accountability, and making sure that that accountability has real teeth behind it. [23:12] I actually, I don't think that's performative. You know, I don't think that's just, you know, the Democrats putting on the performance of toughness. [23:18] I think we need accountability for what has happened over the process of these past two years. [23:23] I think we do need accountability for the fact that we have gone two years now of watching untrained, unaccountable officers inside, [23:32] and federal agents inside of our communities that have not made people more safe, that have actually made people less safe. [23:38] I think we do need accountability for a Department of Defense that we are now waging a war, [23:43] that we are losing, that has never been explained, neither to Congress, nor to the American people. [23:50] And I think there needs to be accountability for some of the other international actions that have taken place, [23:54] because we have to understand, our United States military is second to none. [24:00] Our military can do anything, but they should not be asked to do everything. [24:04] And this becomes a challenge when we're seeing that being the case, and particularly when it being the case, [24:09] when we know that lines are now being blurred between what constitutes legal decisions and congressionally approved decisions, [24:17] and decisions that are just being made exclusively by the Department of Defense. [24:21] Does what just happened in the midterms change your thinking about the next cycle? [24:26] No, I think, and frankly, I think what people need to focus on is what's happening right now. [24:36] You know, I think one of the things that the American people told us is that don't be focused on 2028. [24:42] Don't focus on two years from now. Focus on two months from now. Focus on two weeks from now. [24:48] That what people said is they are tired of people calculating about what this is going to mean for their lives [24:54] when we're not focusing on what this is going to mean for the American people's lives. [24:57] And so I've always said that I think Maryland deserves to be part of the conversation about how things look going forward. [25:03] You know, we've had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. [25:07] Our math and reading scores are at five-year highs. Our teacher vacancy rate is down 74%. [25:12] We finally have an economy that is growing with over 64,000 new businesses started since our administrations come on board. [25:19] Over $17.5 billion of private investment inside of the state of Maryland. [25:23] We are watching the momentum that the country is paying attention to, and that is a good thing. [25:27] But truthfully, the American people want us to focus on right now, and that's exactly what we're doing here in Maryland. [25:34] And I don't think it's be careful what you wish for because everybody always wants to be in power. [25:38] But now the Democrats' fate is in their own hands. [25:42] Between now and two years from now, that's going to be who you are to the American people. [25:47] No, you can't pass it by yourself because they have the White House and you don't have a filibuster-proof majority, obviously. [25:54] But now you've got power. Let's see what the Democrats do with it. [25:57] And I hope you're right. I hope they come out of the box hot and sooner than later. [26:02] Governor Westmore, I appreciate you. [26:03] Yes, I appreciate you. Mustache looking good, man. [26:08] You don't mean it. You don't mean it. And if we were in person, it would be a different conversation. [26:12] I tell you, I know you're enjoying it. Enjoy it, Gov. Enjoy it. I'll see you soon. I'll see you soon. [26:16] Four minutes and 45 seconds. Look at him. Look at him. Look at how he loves it. [26:19] You see? That's the problem with these guys. You can't do this remote. [26:23] I saw as soon as he popped up, he looked at my face and he was like, what the? Yeah. [26:27] We're raising money for the fire department, okay? Look at him. He's still laughing. [26:30] Don't hurt yourself. I hope your face doesn't get stuck like that. [26:33] I love it. I love it. [26:33] Yeah, all right, Gov. Take care of yourself. [26:35] Governor Westmore, did the CEO of one of the biggest AI companies in the world, [26:39] the man Trump turns to on all things tech, get seduced by a Chinese spy, okay? That would be [26:46] interesting. If so, here's what I care about. Why is there this nonchalance from the president of the [26:54] United States that I'm sure he's got a good explanation. I'm sure nothing happened. He has [27:01] unbelievable access to our national security information. Where is the curiosity? You know [27:08] where it is? Flip the R to a D. If this wasn't his boy, they would be all over it. That's what [27:16] needs to change. Next. NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang is one of the most powerful men in tech, okay? He has [27:31] incredible access to our national security. And he is the man our president turns to for all things AI. [27:40] Now he admitted that he had an extramarital affair. So what? Well, then, [27:47] we find out that the woman he had this affair with was allegedly a Chinese spy. Okay. Do we know [27:56] that? Well, that's part of the story, right? Then we learn that it also wasn't an accident, [28:03] that it was a spy because that spy was recruited to seduce him. Well, why would you want to seduce him [28:11] to gather information to send back to the Chinese government? Now that would be really scary, okay? [28:20] U.S. officials believe she was gathering intelligence on his company and likely to get her hands on [28:27] restricted American AI chips. Trump? He's like Alfred E. Newman. What? Me worry? Watch. [28:35] He said he had absolutely no idea that the person in question was a spy. I asked him that question. Did [28:44] you have any idea that she was a spy? He said, I had no idea that she was a spy. And I really believe [28:49] him. Of course you believe him. You believe Putin, too. Did you ask him? Did you give her anything? [28:57] NVIDIA's board has launched an independent investigation. Three House committees, [29:01] including the House Intelligence Committee, are calling for him to testify. [29:04] So let's discuss what the president seems to be missing about what needs to be known here. [29:10] Former assistant attorney general in the Biden administration, Jonathan Cantor. And Jonathan [29:14] is also getting into the space of helping people deal with AI. I'll talk to him about that as well. [29:19] It's good to see you. Good to see you. Thanks for having me, Chris. [29:24] So do you share the president's nonchalance about this? He said he had no idea. Next. [29:31] Not at all. I mean, if the facts pan out as they've been reported, [29:36] this could be a scandal, espionage scandal, on the same level as the Rosenbergs. [29:41] We're talking about the most important consequential technological development of our generation [29:47] and restrictions, a race against China to figure out who is going to get there first. [29:53] And at the same time he was being seduced by an alleged Chinese spy, [29:57] he was lobbying the president of the United States to remove restrictions on the shipment of chips to [30:04] China. So how do you know what happened or didn't happen with her? Is there an ability to figure [30:13] that out other than just asking him? Absolutely. So it was an incredible breach of protocol for the [30:20] president to call Jensen Huang. In a situation like this, it should get referred to the Department [30:25] of Justice and the FBI for a thorough investigation. And the way that works is the political leadership [30:32] should have nothing to do with it. The professionals should take over and do what they need to do, [30:37] which is rely on systems intel and human intel to figure out what happened here. There is a good [30:42] chance that the federal government actually knows quite a bit about what happened already due to [30:48] confidential sources and other kinds of information. So it is kind of remarkable that the president [30:53] called the target of a potential target of a criminal investigation involving espionage. [30:59] So why Huang? Well, it's because he makes the AI chips. Okay, why else? He has been pretty strong as [31:09] an advocate to be easier on China when it comes to giving them chips. That's the part that makes me a [31:15] little bit more interested in this. I don't care at all about the affair, but I do care about what he may [31:20] have given her. Well, absolutely. That's the issue. There are two issues, actually. One is whether he was [31:27] selling or knowingly selling chips to this woman's company, and then those chips were being diverted [31:33] to China illegally. And second, whether she was influencing him to lobby the president to remove [31:40] restrictions on shipping these advanced chips to China. Both of those, both of those, if they pan out, [31:46] could be quite significant and result in criminal prosecution. [31:49] And obviously, the fact that Trump likes this guy may change the federal government's disposition [31:55] towards the investigation, and that's going to become a concern also. But look, all of this falls [32:00] under the same umbrella. AI is coming. Everybody's scaring us to death. We don't know what it even really [32:06] looks like. We don't know what it's going to mean. And you're getting involved in that space, Jonathan, [32:10] because you believe the risk is real and, you know, forewarned is forearmed. So what do you think [32:19] needs to happen and what are you doing to make it happen? [32:22] Sure. So a few things. First of all, we need to... We've invented the equivalent of cars and trucks [32:29] and trains, but we have no stop signs, traffic lights or lines on the road. We need some damn [32:36] rules, right? We need some basic rules, some basic duties of care, some basic duties of loyalty [32:41] to make sure that these companies have to build products that are safe and secure. And I've actually [32:46] started my own company now, which is designed to help the little guy take on the big guy using [32:50] technology. I've had the privilege during the previous administration of fighting some of the [32:54] biggest tech companies in the world and winning in court. And I want to make sure that that technology [33:00] is used for good, not just for bad. But we do need some rules. We do need some governance and we need [33:06] some lines on the road. This doesn't mean the government has to tell people how to build their [33:09] products and services. It does mean that we need some rules and we need Congress to get its act [33:14] together and put those rules in place. There's just so much money coming from these guys, [33:20] Jonathan. They're holding up the whole stock market. They're dumping all their money into the [33:25] AI companies. So it's very hard for Congress to want to move on them. So what is your company and what [33:31] does it do? Our company is FluxCap. We're technology for the good guys. So when I was in government, [33:38] I worked on antitrust. We took on the biggest companies. We build technology so that small groups of [33:44] lawyers who want to fight for the people to take on big companies, whether they're in government [33:49] or they're a small law firm, can take on the big guys using technology. And so that the massive [33:54] resources that the large guys have with large law firms and armies of lawyers no longer mean that [34:00] the cases that need to get brought cannot get brought. So it's AI for the good. AI for the good [34:08] guys. AI for the little guy. And it's built responsibly. It's not going to steal anybody's [34:13] information. It's not going to tell teens that they should change what they eat and what they wear. [34:21] It's simple. It's a simple but direct purpose, which is to help people bring good cases to hold [34:28] large actors accountable. It's about time the technology not just be used for bad, [34:32] but be used for good as well. Jason Cantor, I wish you good luck with it. [34:37] Thank you for coming on to help us understand the stakes here. What'd I call you? Oh, Jonathan. [34:41] Thank you so much. Jonathan Cantor. Jonathan Cantor. And what's it called? Flux Cap? [34:47] Flux Cap, like the flux capacitor from Back to the Future. But Chris, so long as you have that [34:51] mustache, you can call me whatever you like. Oh, no. That's it. Now I'm coming for you, Jonathan [34:56] Cantor. Good luck with Flux Cap. Take care of yourself. And thank you for- Look at them all. [35:00] They're all loving it. Great. Four minutes and 45 seconds. I'm glad I could bring people together. [35:05] If the left is going down the road of mean, I think they're making a mistake. Okay? Now look, [35:11] social media is a garbage fire. Okay? It's Thunderdome. It's all about outrage. Enragement [35:19] is engagement. So what made it too much, Dave Chappelle? Was it too much what he said about [35:25] Charlie Kirk for comedy? Was what these two female lefty podcasters that everybody on the left goes and [35:31] sees and says that they hate MAGA with? Did they go too far? Should they be canceled? [35:37] Or do we need to move on to something else as a standard? Let's talk. Look, if you watch any of [35:51] my stuff, you know that I'm not a fan of cancel culture. I don't like crowdsource consequences. [35:56] I also believe that the American people have moved past that phase. It's easy to take people out. [36:02] I think people are hungry for better. I actually think that that was a big part of the agency of this [36:08] midterm that the Democrats didn't get a pat on the back. MAGA got a kick in the ass. And there's [36:14] a big difference. Who will win the battle for better? Leland Vittert right now. And who will learn [36:20] those lessons, right? A lesson for Democrats and a lesson for Republicans and what you just laid out. [36:26] Yeah. I think that the enragement is shifting to a desire for engagement. I think that that's what you [36:33] see with this stuff with the podcasters and Chappelle and all that is that, yeah, yeah, [36:38] you have the right to say it, but it's not right. And we want something else. Hopefully it continues. [36:42] We could use it. Yeah, we could. And we try every night to will it into reality. What do the kids say? [36:50] Manifest? Manifest. Manifesting. We're manifesting together. Speak it into existence, [36:56] my brother. Speak it into existence.