Naomi Klein Interviews Bernie Sanders on Climate Change

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Senator Sanders thank you so much for making some time. We sometimes hear journalists talk about climate change as a ratings killer and basically ignoring the existential crisis facing humanity. It's supposed to be killing the planet, is that right? So you have decided to put on a TV show. Tell me why you've [00:00:24] Speaker 2: decided to do a town hall on climate change. We have found that on some of the most important issues facing this country and the world, corporate media generally speaking is not there. You tell me income and wealth inequality. You seen any good specials on NBC or ABC lately? No you haven't. We're the only country, major country on earth doesn't guarantee health care at all. Any great discussions on television about the need for Medicare for all, even a debate about the issue, you haven't. So what we have done is working with progressive media outlets and this is pretty revolutionary, if I must say so myself. We have come together to produce town meetings and the one we did on income and wealth inequality had well over a million and a half viewers, more than CNN had on that evening. That is extraordinarily important because what we are saying is you can get around corporate media, you can talk about real issues, and you know what? The American people are prepared to deal with it. Now, when you talk about real issues, I would think that maybe the survival of the planet that we live on might be an issue of some concern to some people, right? All right, and you know this stuff better than I, and thank you for all the work you have done on it. The IPCC, including some of the best climate scientists in the world have concluded that a lot of their previous estimates were wrong, that they were too conservative, that the that the crisis is worse than they anticipated. And they're telling us that we have 12 years, 12 years, no time at all to transform our energy system to prevent horrific damage. And you know, one thing I just want to [00:02:06] Speaker 1: interject is that when people hear that, they think, oh, I'll start in 12 years. No, that's not what they said. Oh my god. They said in by 12 years from now, we have to basically cut our fossil fuel consumption in half. Which is no time at all, which is [00:02:20] Speaker 2: dealing not just, you know, you know, with the guy we have in the White House who doesn't even acknowledge the problem. All right, you've got to bring countries all over the world together. It's not an American problem. It's a Chinese problem, an Indian problem, et cetera, et cetera. So it is a monumental task. The only bright side that I see to it is that if we can get the word out to our friends all over the world, especially to the young people, I mean, groups like the 350.org and others, they're doing a great job on this. Think about what it would mean to the entire planet for people in China, in Russia, in India, standing up together, transforming our energy system and creating millions of jobs as we're doing it. And when you do that, you end a lot of the pollution that we're now seeing. Instead of going to war, you know, war is always a way that you rally people together, right? Think about a war against climate change, an international war against climate change. [00:03:12] Speaker 1: This is one of the, I think, promises of the idea of a Green New Deal, right? Because it brings together the economic stimulus, which makes it kind of recession-proof. Because one of the things that we've seen is during economic downturns, then all of the, whatever momentum there is towards climate action disappears. So what is it, what does a Green New Deal mean to you? [00:03:33] Speaker 2: What it means is several fold. Number one, obviously, we are moving boldly to reduce carbon emissions, okay? And that means transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel. Two, A, energy efficiency. We are a very wasteful energy society. B, moving toward the electrification of our transportation system, which is a huge deal. And C, making buildings all across this country and the world much more energy efficient. [00:04:07] Speaker 1: Now, the last time there was a New Deal in the United States, it did create a huge amount of jobs. But there were people excluded from the benefits of some of the big gains in the New Deal period. African American workers, not all of them, but many of them, domestic workers, farm workers. We are in a moment where there's a huge amount of momentum coming from the climate justice movement, from frontline communities. So I want to know what your thinking is about how to make sure that a Green New Deal doesn't replicate the exclusions of the old New Deal. [00:04:40] Speaker 2: That's a great question. And by the way, we know that climate change will impact, internationally most significantly, the poorest people in the world. That's what we know. In this country, we know that if you go to places like the South Bronx and New York City, you've got a quarter of the kids who are working in the United States, you've got to work in the United States. You've got to work in the United States. So, moving aggressively to transform our energy system will help some of the poorest people in this country and in the world. Your point is they have got to be involved. That part of our population has got to be involved in the solution as well. That means rebuilding communities in a green way involving, absolutely, in a significant way, people from the Latino community, from the African American community, from all of our communities. But I look at it, you know, looking at maybe as a politician, I see the incredible possibilities as a nation, not only in combating climate change, which is the bottom line, that's our survival, but think about what it means when young people suddenly are rebuilding their own communities in minority communities. What an extraordinary thing [00:05:54] Speaker 1: that will be economically and socially. Yeah, and we are in this moment where these are the communities that have the most to lose, but they are also the communities that have the most to gain and are mobilizing. And so, another question I have for you is, I mean, people are wondering, how can this possibly happen? We don't have control over the Senate. There's control of the House. We don't know what's going to happen in 2020. What is the role of social movements in pushing this forward? [00:06:20] Speaker 2: The future rests with the success of grassroots activism. Look, you have a Congress which is, forget the moment where you have a president who, what can we say, who is a pathological liar, who doesn't understand the first thing, who doesn't even think, thinks climate change is a hoax. Forgetting him. Forgetting a Congress which is heavily dominated by the fossil fuel industry and the Koch brothers. Forget them. All right? What we need all over this country in an unprecedented way, we are fighting. I have, you know, I'm in this fight because I have seven beautiful grandchildren and you have a six-year-old, right? If we do not get our act together, I worry about the planet that we're going to be leaving to these beautiful children. We just saw, and I want everybody to understand this. You know, we just saw what happened in California. You saw, was it 88 people who ended up or more? We don't know yet. Right. We don't know who died. 14,000 homes. Did you know that? 14,000 homes were destroyed? And what the scientists are telling us, this is the future. This is not going to be the exception to the rule. Heat waves in Europe, the acidification of the ocean. What the hell does that mean in terms of people able to fish and so for mammal life? So to answer your question, the grassroots of this country has got to stand up. So it's a food security threat and it is [00:07:38] Speaker 1: a security threat on every front. Coming back to the town hall that you have planned, you're going to have Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez with you. My understanding is that there's now 18 members of the House who are backing the idea of a select committee for a Green New Deal. But there's also a feeling of, well, this isn't respecting the way things are done in Congress and we have our committees and we have our hierarchies. What's your, what's your response? What do you think? Well, I haven't been in the [00:08:04] Speaker 2: House for a number of years. Look, to me, it doesn't matter whether it's a select committee or the general committee. Probably a select committee would be a better idea. What matters is that we get it done and we get it done very quickly. So here is my prayer to my colleagues in the House. You remember way back in '96 what Newt Gingrich did. Remember what he did? '94. Gingrich came in with a right-wing agenda. I was in the House at that point. And this guy had the House working 20 hours a day. I was there morning, noon, and night pushing his right-wing extremist agenda, which, by the way, laid the groundwork for where we are today. I would hope that the leadership of the Democratic Party in the House, and we have to work with them hand in hand, in a sense learns that lesson and comes forward with a progressive agenda. Climate change is at the top. Let's make the American people understand we're going to create millions of jobs. We're going to lower fuel bills. We are going to protect those people who will lose their jobs as we transform the energy system. There will be some people who lose jobs. We've got to protect those people. Can't forget about them. We've got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. We've got to move toward health care for all. We can learn something from your native country, Canada, on that. Tell the American people that we have heard their pain and that we are going to go forward in an urgent manner, that we go forward strongly and not just diddle around. That's my fear. [00:09:44] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Bernie. It was such a pleasure.