Lindsay Clancy's ex-husband Patrick begins testimony in Massachusetts murder trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: - Can you please state and spell your name for the record? [00:00:02] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, my name's Patrick Clancy. It's P-A-T-R-I-C-K-C-L-A-N-C-Y. [00:00:08] Speaker 1: - And what is your date of birth? [00:00:10] Patrick Clancy: - June 15th, 1988. [00:00:12] Speaker 1: - What city do you live in now? [00:00:14] Patrick Clancy: - New York. [00:00:15] Speaker 1: - And what do you do for a living? [00:00:17] Patrick Clancy: - I work in tech. [00:00:18] Speaker 1: - How long have you worked in tech? [00:00:23] Patrick Clancy: - 14 years. [00:00:26] Speaker 1: - And were you previously married to a person named Lindsey Clancy? - Yes. - And you're divorced now, is that correct? - Correct. - Do you see that person in the courtroom today? - Yes. - Could you point to them and describe something they're wearing? [00:00:39] Speaker 3: - It's not necessary. - She's wearing a pink shirt. - Record reflect the identification of the defendant. [00:00:44] Speaker 1: - Thank you. Where did you meet the defendant? [00:00:49] Patrick Clancy: - In South Boston. [00:00:51] Speaker 1: - And when was that? [00:00:53] Patrick Clancy: - I think it was May 2013. [00:00:57] Speaker 1: - And how did you meet her? [00:01:00] Patrick Clancy: - Through my cousin. [00:01:02] Speaker 1: - And would it be accurate to state that your cousin had been college roommates of the defendant? [00:01:07] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:01:10] Speaker 1: - And at some point in time, did you start dating? [00:01:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:01:13] Speaker 1: - And around what time was that? [00:01:16] Patrick Clancy: - July 2013. [00:01:19] Speaker 1: - Did you eventually move in together? [00:01:21] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:01:22] Speaker 1: - Do you remember when that was? [00:01:24] Patrick Clancy: - September 2015. [00:01:26] Speaker 1: - And where did you live? [00:01:27] Patrick Clancy: - In Quincy. [00:01:31] Speaker 1: - How long did you live in Quincy? [00:01:33] Patrick Clancy: - One year. [00:01:34] Speaker 1: - And where did you go after that? [00:01:36] Patrick Clancy: - We bought a house in Weymouth. [00:01:39] Speaker 1: - And how long did you live in Weymouth? [00:01:41] Patrick Clancy: - Two years. [00:01:43] Speaker 1: - Did you eventually get married? - Yes. - When was that? [00:01:48] Patrick Clancy: - December 2016. [00:01:50] Speaker 1: - And was that while you were living in Weymouth? [00:01:53] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:01:56] Speaker 1: - Did you have your first child when you were living in Weymouth? [00:01:58] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:01:59] Speaker 1: - And what was her name? [00:02:00] Patrick Clancy: - Cora. [00:02:02] Speaker 1: - And what was her date of birth? [00:02:04] Patrick Clancy: - December 24th, 2017. [00:02:12] Speaker 1: - Prior to getting married, did the defendant ever tell you she had taken psychiatric medication while in nursing school? [00:02:19] Patrick Clancy: - Not that I recall. [00:02:23] Speaker 1: - After having Cora, did the three of you move somewhere else? [00:02:27] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, we moved to Duxbury. [00:02:29] Speaker 1: - And what was your address in Duxbury? [00:02:31] Patrick Clancy: - 47 Summer Street. [00:02:35] Speaker 1: - And do you recall when you moved there? [00:02:38] Patrick Clancy: - I believe it was July, 2018. [00:02:42] Speaker 1: - And where were you working at that time? [00:02:46] Patrick Clancy: - I was working for a startup called Automation Anywhere. [00:02:49] Speaker 1: - At some point in time, did you start working for Microsoft? [00:02:52] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:02:53] Speaker 1: - And when was that? [00:02:56] Patrick Clancy: - May, 2020. [00:02:57] Speaker 1: - And when you worked for Microsoft, did you go to an office or did you work from home? [00:03:02] Patrick Clancy: - I worked from home. [00:03:04] Speaker 1: - And was that from 2020 onward that you worked from home? [00:03:08] Patrick Clancy: - No, I started working from home in 2018. [00:03:11] Speaker 1: - 2018, okay. So from 2018 up until, let's say 2023, you were working from home, is that correct? [00:03:18] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:03:23] Speaker 1: - And did you have an office in your home which you worked out of? [00:03:26] Patrick Clancy: - Eventually, yeah. [00:03:28] Speaker 1: - And where was that located? [00:03:29] Patrick Clancy: - In the basement. [00:03:30] Speaker 1: - And was that a finished basement? [00:03:32] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:03:39] Speaker 1: - Going back to after Cora was born, do you recall the defendant having any physical issues after the birth? [00:03:46] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:03:47] Speaker 1: - And what were those? [00:03:51] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, I think there was a lot of tearing and she bled a lot. [00:03:55] Speaker 1: - Did it take her a while to recover physically? [00:03:58] Patrick Clancy: - I would say so, yeah. [00:04:02] Speaker 1: - Did she have maternity leave at that time? [00:04:06] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:04:07] Speaker 1: - Where was she working? [00:04:09] Patrick Clancy: - Mass General Hospital. [00:04:11] Speaker 1: - And what was she doing there? [00:04:12] Patrick Clancy: - She's a labor and delivery nurse. [00:04:15] Speaker 1: - At that point in time, when she had Cora in 2017, how long had she been a nurse? [00:04:25] Patrick Clancy: - Three years, maybe. [00:04:27] Speaker 1: - And do you recall how long her maternity leave was with Cora? [00:04:34] Patrick Clancy: - That was the shortest of the three. I want to say it was 10 or 11 weeks. [00:04:41] Speaker 1: - And did you have paternity leave at that time? [00:04:44] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, I had two weeks. - Two weeks, okay. [00:04:48] Speaker 1: - When you went back after the two weeks, back to work in the home, were there any issues that you noticed the defendant having? [00:05:00] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, I'm sorry. I just want to correct an earlier statement. I was working for Pegasystems when Cora was born. [00:05:05] Speaker 1: - Okay. And then eventually you worked for Microsoft? - Yeah. - And so after the two weeks of your paternity leave, the defendant was still on maternity leave, correct? [00:05:16] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:05:16] Speaker 1: - Okay. And did she have to take any psychiatric medications at that time? [00:05:22] Patrick Clancy: - Not that I know of. She had a lot of anxiety, but. [00:05:26] Speaker 1: - Okay, so you're saying that she had some anxiety at that time, is that correct? - Yeah. How did she manifest or how did you know that? [00:05:34] Patrick Clancy: - She just really struggled with the date of going back to work, so. [00:05:39] Speaker 1: - So immediately after having Cora, as she healed physically, what was her mood like when you're both on leave? [00:05:49] Patrick Clancy: - It was great. It was good. - Good, okay. - I mean, relatively, yeah. [00:05:53] Speaker 1: - And so did the anxiety start as it became closer in time to when she had to go back to work? [00:05:59] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:06:00] Speaker 1: - How many shifts was she working at that time? [00:06:05] Patrick Clancy: - Before Cora was born, she was working at least 40 hours, maybe more. After she went back to work, it was, I think, initially just one. [00:06:17] Speaker 1: - One shift? [00:06:18] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:06:19] Speaker 1: - And was that a 12-hour shift? [00:06:22] Patrick Clancy: - It was per diem, and then she eventually did two shifts. - Okay. - I think it was 20 weeks. [00:06:28] Speaker 1: After 20 weeks, she moved to two shifts? [00:06:32] Patrick Clancy: - I'm sorry, it was 20 hours a week. [00:06:34] Speaker 1: - 20 hours a week, okay. And so from the time she worked her way back up to 20 hours a week at work until she had your next child, did it remain that 20 hours per week that she worked? [00:06:47] Patrick Clancy: - Pretty much, yeah. [00:06:48] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:06:51] Speaker 1: - And did you have any assistance in the home during that time after she went back to work, a nanny or a babysitter? [00:06:58] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, we had babysitters. We had a babysitter who came probably 12 hours a week. [00:07:05] Speaker 1: - And did that typically happen after your wife had a shift, that the nanny or the babysitter would be there? [00:07:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, so she could sleep. [00:07:14] Speaker 1: - Did the defendant work overnights? [00:07:17] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:07:17] Speaker ?: - Yeah. [00:07:21] Speaker 1: - And how long did you have that nanny or babysitter for? [00:07:26] Patrick Clancy: - Several years. [00:07:27] Speaker 1: - Do you remember her name? [00:07:29] Patrick Clancy: - We called her Miss Jen. [00:07:31] Speaker 1: - Miss Jen, do you remember her last name? [00:07:33] Patrick Clancy: - Shanahan. [00:07:36] Speaker 1: - And then you had a second child, is that correct? [00:07:39] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:07:39] Speaker 1: - And what was their name? [00:07:41] Patrick Clancy: - Dawson. [00:07:42] Speaker 1: - And what was Dawson's date of birth? [00:07:44] Patrick Clancy: - September 30th, 2019. [00:07:47] Speaker 1: - And was Miss Jen still helping out in the home at that time? [00:07:52] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:07:53] Speaker 1: - And what was Dawson's delivery like? [00:07:58] Patrick Clancy: - Pretty traumatic. - How so? - He was in a, I think a breach position. So he came out in a, I guess, I don't know much about it, but not an ideal way. And it caused just significant bruising and tearing. [00:08:17] Speaker 1: - So again, did the defendant with this second pregnancy have some pain and difficulty physically healing from the birth? [00:08:25] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, much more so than Cora. [00:08:29] Speaker 1: - And was she on maternity leave at that time? [00:08:32] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:08:33] Speaker 1: - How many weeks leave does she have at that time? [00:08:33] Patrick Clancy: - I don't recall, but I think it was more than the, you know, traditional 12. I wanna say it was 13 or 14, maybe more. [00:09:03] Speaker ?: - Okay. - Okay. [00:09:05] Speaker 1: - Page 13, if I may approach. [00:09:09] Speaker 4: - You may. - You don't have to keep telling me the pages. That's okay. [00:09:13] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:09:14] Speaker 1: - I could have you look at page 13 and just read to yourselves on six through 10, and then just look up when you're finished. - Is that a refresher memory as to how much maternity leave the defendant had after Dawson's birth? [00:09:41] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:09:42] Speaker 1: - And what was it? [00:09:43] Patrick Clancy: - 18. [00:09:44] Speaker 1: - 18 weeks? - Mm-hmm. - Is that correct? [00:09:47] Patrick Clancy: - I believe so. [00:09:48] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:09:50] Speaker 1: - And, you know, after dealing with the physical pain of birth and starting to heal, how was her demeanor and experience during that maternity leave? [00:10:05] Patrick Clancy: - I think it was fine at first. It was always when she had to go back to work, that's when she struggled. - Okay. [00:10:12] Speaker 1: So that was a pattern that you saw after the baby, maternity leave was good, and then she'd struggle going back to work? [00:10:20] Patrick Clancy: - She just had a really hard time being separated from them. [00:10:23] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:10:26] Speaker 1: What was the plan for how many shifts she would work or how many hours she would work after Dawson was born? [00:10:33] Patrick Clancy: - I believe it was the same thing. [00:10:38] Speaker 1: - And in terms of Ms. Shanahan, the babysitter, you had mentioned before that she was there about 12 hours a week. Did that stay consistent after Dawson's birth or was it more or less? [00:10:52] Patrick Clancy: - Probably consistent. [00:10:59] Speaker 1: - After Dawson's birth, did the defendant ever tell you whether she was on any psychiatric medication after Dawson's birth? [00:11:06] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:11:07] Speaker 1: - Did she seek treatment or tell you she sought treatment after Dawson's birth? [00:11:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. She got a therapist for a short period of time, but it didn't last very long. [00:11:19] Speaker 1: - Did she tell you that at the time or later? [00:11:21] Patrick Clancy: - At the time. [00:11:22] Speaker 1: - Okay. - And did she have any psychiatric hospitalizations or commitments at that time? - No. - What about after Cora's birth, any psychiatric hospitalizations or treatments? - No. - Was there a time after Dawson's birth where she wanted to declutter your garage? [00:11:49] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. - Maybe at some point. [00:11:50] Speaker 1: - Okay. And did you assist her with that? [00:11:52] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:11:53] Speaker 1: - Okay. And how was that done? [00:11:57] Patrick Clancy: - We had a lot of stuff to throw away. And I think we sold some stuff on Facebook marketplace. We just had a lot of stuff. [00:12:05] Speaker 1: - So did the two of you go through the items in the garage and organize it into what you would keep, what you would throw away and what you would sell? [00:12:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:12:14] Speaker 1: - Okay. And so it was very organized? [00:12:17] Patrick Clancy: - I would say so, yeah. [00:12:18] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:12:21] Speaker 1: And you finished the project, is that correct? [00:12:25] Patrick Clancy: - It was always ongoing. [00:12:31] Speaker 1: - Now, eventually you had your third child, correct? - Yeah. - And what was their name? [00:12:36] Patrick Clancy: - Callan. [00:12:37] Speaker 1: - And what was his date of birth? [00:12:39] Patrick Clancy: - May 26th, 2022. [00:12:43] Speaker 1: - Can you describe that delivery for us? [00:12:48] Patrick Clancy: - It was great from what I could tell. It was relatively quick. It was during the day. We were both smiling after, and I don't think there was as much physical trauma. [00:13:04] Speaker 1: - Nothing compared to what happened with CORE or Dawson, is that correct? [00:13:07] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:13:10] Speaker 1: - So did the defendant have maternity leave after Callan's birth? - Did he leave as well? - Yes. - And how long was your paternity leave? [00:13:32] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:13:32] Speaker ?: - No. [00:13:33] Speaker 1: - So what was Callan being born on May 26th, 2022, the two of you were home with the children that summer on leave, is that correct? [00:13:43] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker 1: - What was family life like during that time period, those summer months? [00:13:56] Patrick Clancy: - It was great. - We had a lot of time off. I was able to spend a lot of time with, I spent a lot of time with CORE and Dawson. So I would take them around, you know, the playgrounds and birthday parties and stuff like that. [00:14:11] Speaker 1: - And what would Lindsey be doing while you were with CORE and Dawson? [00:14:15] Patrick Clancy: - Sometimes she'd come with us, with Callan, but oftentimes we did kind of like a divide and conquer. So she'd be home with Callan and I'd be out with the older kids. [00:14:25] Speaker 1: - And what types of family activities did, did you all do during those summer months? [00:14:31] Patrick Clancy: - We went on a couple of vacations. We went to the beach. We went out on our boat and went to friends' houses. [00:14:41] Speaker 1: - During those months, when you're going to the beach and out on the boat and visiting with friends, were there any signs of anxiety in the defendant during those months? [00:14:52] Patrick Clancy: - I would say starting in September, yes. But in the previous months, not so much. [00:15:00] Speaker 1: - When had she been scheduled to go back to work? [00:15:04] Patrick Clancy: - I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was October. [00:15:07] Speaker 1: - So again, it was that pattern of, as it became closer in time to go back to work, she started to struggle? [00:15:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:15:22] Speaker 1: - During the times when she would get anxious, when it was time to go back to work and she would start being anxious, did you ever have any difficulty understanding her when she spoke? [00:15:34] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:15:35] Speaker 1: - And did she ever exhibit any behavior that made you concerned enough to call a doctor or want to commit her? [00:15:47] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:15:50] Speaker 1: - When she was showing this anxiety, what were you seeing in her behavior? [00:15:57] Patrick Clancy: - Just a lot of stress. You know, there were days where she had all three kids and, you know, there's different nap schedules and different needs. So it was just really stressful. [00:16:10] Speaker 1: - Okay. - And you're still working in the basement office at this point after Callum's born, correct? [00:16:20] Patrick Clancy: - I went back to work late August. - Okay. [00:16:24] Speaker 1: And when you work downstairs, how often would you come upstairs during the day? [00:16:29] Patrick Clancy: - All the time for lunch or just to say hi. [00:16:36] Speaker 1: - Were there times when Lindsay would ask you to hold the baby in the office while she was doing something? [00:16:44] Patrick Clancy: - I think so, yeah. [00:16:44] Speaker 1: - Okay. And were there times when you would watch one or more of the children while she took another to a doctor's appointment or to an errand or something like that? [00:16:55] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, if it worked out with a schedule, yeah. [00:16:58] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:17:03] Speaker 1: What was the plan in terms of how many shifts or hours she was going to work after Callum? [00:17:12] Patrick Clancy: - I believe the plan was two shifts per week, but there was a lot of flexibility. She could have done really anything. [00:17:21] Speaker 1: - Do you recall saying previously that you were going to start off with one shift and hopefully move to two? [00:17:27] Patrick Clancy: - I could imagine, yeah. [00:17:29] Speaker 1: - Okay. And you said there was some options, correct? What were those options if that didn't work out? [00:17:37] Patrick Clancy: - Well, I always put money aside in basically our own maternity account just so that if she needed more flexibility, we planned for that, so. [00:17:48] Speaker 1: - So if she needed more time off, more than what her work would provide for her, you were financially secure enough to afford that at this time? During this time in the fall of 2022, were Cora and Dawson attending preschool? [00:18:10] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:18:11] Speaker 1: - And where was that? [00:18:12] Patrick Clancy: - Learning Sprouts. [00:18:13] Speaker 1: - And where is Learning Sprouts located? [00:18:16] Patrick Clancy: - Duxbury. [00:18:19] Speaker 1: - How often were they attending Learning Sprouts? [00:18:24] Patrick Clancy: - Full days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and a half day on Thursday. [00:18:28] Speaker 1: - And what was a full day? What hours? [00:18:30] Patrick Clancy: - I think it was nine to four. [00:18:32] Speaker 1: - Nine a.m. to 4:00 p.m.? [00:18:33] Patrick Clancy: - I think so, yeah. [00:18:34] Speaker 1: - And what was a half day? [00:18:36] Patrick Clancy: - Nine to 12:30. I think they might've had some days where they started early. I can't remember. [00:18:44] Speaker 1: - But basically all day, you know, working hours all day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then the mornings on Thursday, is that right? - Right. - And who would do drop-offs for school? - We both would. - And what about pick-ups? - Both of us. - Together or take turns? [00:19:06] Patrick Clancy: - Usually we would take turns. [00:19:10] Speaker 1: - Now at some point in time, after Callan was born, did you hire a nanny? [00:19:16] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:19:17] Speaker 1: - And when was that? [00:19:20] Patrick Clancy: - I think it was in August or September. [00:19:27] Speaker 1: - Of 2022? [00:19:28] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:19:29] Speaker 1: - And who was that nanny? [00:19:33] Patrick Clancy: - Laney? I don't remember her last name. [00:19:36] Speaker 1: - Does Elaine Rossi sound familiar? [00:19:37] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:19:38] Speaker 1: - And do you recall how many days per week Elaine was going to work when you hired her? [00:19:48] Patrick Clancy: - I think it was 12 hours. [00:19:50] Speaker 1: - But it wouldn't be 12 hours altogether. It would be spread out over the week. Is that right? [00:19:56] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:19:57] Speaker 1: - And who was she hired to take care of? [00:20:04] Patrick Clancy: - Everyone. But mainly it was going to be Callan. [00:20:08] Speaker 1: - Because Cora and Dawson would be at school? [00:20:11] Patrick Clancy: - For the most part, yeah. [00:20:14] Speaker 1: - And what was the plan for when Elaine would work? Was it that same type of after Lindsay worked shifts or something different? [00:20:24] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, the goal was after Lindsay would work shift. I mean, she never went back to work, but I think we wanted to get her just like oriented with our house and the kids. So we had her start before. And then she was amazing. She was an amazing caregiver, but eventually we decided to let her go because Lindsay was home anyways. - Okay. [00:20:56] Speaker 1: So when you initially hired her in August or September, you said Lindsay was going back to work in October. So is that what you're talking about? That give her that month or so, give Elaine that month or so to get situated and acclimated to the house? [00:21:09] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:21:10] Speaker 1: - Okay. Have the kids get used to her. Is that right? [00:21:12] Speaker ?: - Yep. [00:21:13] Speaker 1: - Okay. Did she also, Elaine, did she also do some cleaning, laundry, and food prep? [00:21:19] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:21] Speaker ?: She was amazing. [00:21:24] Speaker 1: - Now, during this time frame, again, in the end of summer, fall period of 2022, what types of activities were Cora and Dawson doing? [00:21:35] Patrick Clancy: - Gymnastics. All right. Are you talking about organized activities or just in general? [00:21:45] Speaker 1: - Organized. [00:21:48] Patrick Clancy: - I only remember gymnastics. [00:21:49] Speaker 1: - Did they both do the gymnastics? [00:21:51] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:21:51] Speaker 1: - And then were they also participating, maybe not in organized situations, but in swimming, soccer, skiing, things like that? [00:21:57] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, they were doing swimming. And yeah, Cora and Dawson did skiing. Yeah, Cora started doing soccer. She didn't really like it, but did a little bit. [00:22:07] Speaker 1: - And who took them skiing? [00:22:09] Patrick Clancy: - I did. [00:22:10] Speaker 1: - And in terms of the swimming, where would you do that? [00:22:14] Patrick Clancy: - We did it at Goldfish in Rockland, I think. And then Lindsey took them somewhere in, I think, Plymouth. I don't remember where it was. [00:22:26] Speaker 1: - So you would each take them swimming at various times? [00:22:29] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:22:30] Speaker 1: - Okay. Did you also do some swimming at the Kingsbury Club? [00:22:34] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:22:35] Speaker 1: - And what is the Kingsbury Club? [00:22:37] Patrick Clancy: - It's like a gym with a pool. And they had childcare, so sometimes they would hang out in the kids' room and we would go work out. [00:22:46] Speaker 1: - And is that in Duxbury? [00:22:49] Patrick Clancy: - It's on the Kingston-Duxbury line. I'm not entirely sure, but yeah. [00:22:53] Speaker 1: - Okay. And so you could drop the kids off at the daycare portion and go work out or swim or something like that? [00:23:00] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, or we could go with them and go swimming. [00:23:02] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:23:04] Speaker 1: Did Lindsey work out? [00:23:06] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:23:07] Speaker 1: - She was very health conscious? [00:23:09] Patrick Clancy: - I think so. [00:23:11] Speaker 1: - And were you aware that she had been an athlete in both high school and college? [00:23:16] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:23:18] Speaker 1: - Do you recall what she did? [00:23:20] Patrick Clancy: - Competitive cheerleading. [00:23:24] Speaker 1: - Now, when you were together, what type of exercise would she do or did she prefer? [00:23:31] Patrick Clancy: - She did a lot of running. She did the Peloton and she did, there's like some program called Beachbody, I think. [00:23:38] Speaker 1: - Do you recall when she started Beachbody? [00:23:43] Patrick Clancy: - Maybe in the spring of 2022? I'm not sure. [00:23:46] Speaker 1: - So right before having Callan, would that be accurate? [00:23:51] Patrick Clancy: - Probably, yeah. [00:24:01] Speaker 1: - When you returned to work. When you returned to work, and you said that was in August, correct? [00:24:06] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:24:08] Speaker 1: - What was the defendant's demeanor when you returned to work? [00:24:13] Patrick Clancy: - Increased anxiety and definitely, you know, stressed out. [00:24:20] Speaker 1: - Do you recall describing her as slightly stressed, but in good spirits? [00:24:27] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker 1: - And when she was stressed out, when she was showing some anxiety, how did that manifest? [00:24:34] Patrick Clancy: - Um, I don't really know how to describe it. I guess it's just anyway, you can tell that somebody's stressed out. And, um, I don't know. She would say, you know, I'm not looking forward to going back to work. I remember once she said, that it's just so unnatural to be separated from your newborn, you know, stuff like that. [00:25:00] Speaker 1: - So she didn't want to go back to work? Is that what you're saying? [00:25:03] Patrick Clancy: - I think she did. It was just a really difficult transition for her. [00:25:11] Speaker 1: - And, um, do you recall attending a wedding on September 17th, 2022? [00:25:17] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:25:18] Speaker 1: - And where was that wedding? [00:25:19] Patrick Clancy: - New Hampshire. [00:25:21] Speaker 1: - Was it just you and Lindsay that went, or did the whole family go? [00:25:24] Patrick Clancy: - We brought Callan. [00:25:25] Speaker 1: - And when you were at that wedding, do you recall having a conversation with Lindsay, um, about medication? - Yes. - What did she say to you? [00:25:37] Patrick Clancy: - Um, we were walking downtown and she said, I think I'm going to start taking Zoloft. [00:25:42] Speaker 1: - And did she tell you why she wanted to start taking Zoloft? [00:25:46] Patrick Clancy: - She said, I think it's really going to help with my anxiety, um, and with going back to work. [00:25:51] Speaker 1: - And did she tell you how she was going to go about getting Zoloft? [00:25:56] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. I, I, um, I asked her, how are you going to get Zoloft? It's a prescription. And she said, you know, usually just ask the doctor and they'll give it to you. [00:26:09] Speaker 1: - Okay. - And did she tell you, um, that she was going to see a psychiatrist? [00:26:14] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. I believe so. [00:26:16] Speaker 1: - And, um, when she, when she did that, did she tell you, um, who she was going to see? [00:26:21] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:26:22] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:26:23] Speaker 1: Did you eventually learn the name of the person who she went to see? [00:26:28] Patrick Clancy: - Months later. Yeah. [00:26:29] Speaker 1: - Okay. And who is that? [00:26:31] Patrick Clancy: - Uh, Jennifer Tufts. [00:26:32] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:26:33] Speaker 1: And do you, did Lindsay tell you when she started seeing Dr. Jennifer Tufts? [00:26:39] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:26:41] Speaker 1: - Did you learn or strike that? Did Lindsay tell you when she received the medication and when she started it? [00:26:49] Patrick Clancy: - No. I mean, I should correct that. It's not exactly. [00:26:58] Speaker 1: - Well, let me just ask a question first. - Sure. - When did you have a conversation with Lindsay about the medication she was on? [00:27:07] Patrick Clancy: - Eventually. Yeah. But I didn't know the start date. [00:27:09] Speaker 1: - Okay. And so when did this conversation take place? This eventual conversation? [00:27:16] Patrick Clancy: - Probably the end of October. [00:27:18] Speaker 1: - Okay. And at that point, what did Lindsay tell you about the medication and how she was taking it? [00:27:27] Patrick Clancy: - I don't remember exactly, but I learned that she was taking the Zoloft and I don't remember really too much about it after that. She was just taking it and we were seeing how it went. [00:27:45] Speaker 1: - And did you notice any changes in her physically during that timeframe that she was on it and you weren't aware she was on it? [00:27:57] Patrick Clancy: - At the time, no. I don't think I did. [00:28:00] Speaker 1: - And did you notice any changes in her emotionally during that time when she was on it, but you weren't aware she was on it? [00:28:09] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. - Yeah, she wasn't really improving. She just kind of seems to be gradually becoming more in like a depressed state. [00:28:20] Speaker 1: - And how was that manifesting? What were you noticing? [00:28:23] Patrick Clancy: - It was just small things. I was planning a trip with Cora to San Francisco and she was nervous about us going. And I remember we went to a Halloween event and just leading up to it, I remember she was, it just kind of seemed like she didn't want to go for some reason. [00:28:45] Speaker 1: - Okay. Now, do you recall learning learning that she had actually obtained the prescription the day before she told you she was going to ask for the prescription? [00:28:59] Patrick Clancy: - I did later learn that, yeah. [00:29:01] Speaker 1: - So she's telling you at the wedding that she is going to ask to take this medication and gonna see a psychiatrist to get on that medication, but she actually already had the prescription. Is that correct? [00:29:12] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. I don't think she started taking it yet, but she already had it. [00:29:15] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:29:20] Speaker 1: - And did Lindsay tell you how long she took the medication for? [00:29:33] Patrick Clancy: - She may have. I don't remember the exact timeframe. I just remember she took it for a period of time and then her sleep started to suffer. So she stopped taking it. [00:29:45] Speaker 1: - And did she tell you whether or not she spoke to her provider, her doctor about the troubles she was having? [00:29:54] Patrick Clancy: - I believe so, yeah. [00:29:55] Speaker 1: - Okay. And did she tell you, did Lindsay tell you that she was advised to double the dose of the Zoloft? [00:30:05] Patrick Clancy: - She may have, I don't remember. [00:30:09] Speaker 1: - Page 31. - You could look at lines 20 to 22. And then just look up when you're finished. - Sure. [00:30:24] Patrick Clancy: Okay, yeah, apparently she did. [00:30:26] Speaker 1: - Is that refreshing memory? [00:30:27] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:30:28] Speaker 1: - And so did Lindsay tell you that she was supposed to double the dose? [00:30:33] Patrick Clancy: - I guess she did, yeah. [00:30:44] Speaker 1: - Did you notice any changes in her sleep during that time when she was on the medication but you weren't aware she was on it? [00:30:57] Patrick Clancy: - Eventually, yeah. - When was that? - I don't remember the exact dates, but she just, you know, one night she said, do you mind, she started it by saying, I'm not mad or anything, but do you mind sleeping in the basement and letting me just sleep in our room with Callan? And then you can take the monitors down in the basement and if Cora and Dawson get up, you can get up with them. She said, I've just been having a lot of trouble sleeping and I'm hoping that like, if there's less in and out, then there'll be less disruption. [00:31:35] Speaker 1: - Okay. Had you noticed prior to her telling you this, that she was up a lot or having trouble sleeping? Like physically seeing her awake? [00:31:43] Patrick Clancy: - No, not that I recall. [00:31:45] Speaker 1: - And did you in fact start sleeping in the basement for a period of time? [00:31:49] Patrick Clancy: - I think I did it for like two nights and then she actually went down in the basement. [00:31:53] Speaker 1: - Okay, so then you went back up to your bedroom to sleep, is that correct? - Yeah. - And how long did Lindsay sleep in the basement for after that? [00:32:02] Patrick Clancy: - Maybe a couple of weeks. [00:32:04] Speaker 1: - And so during that timeframe, was she telling you that she was still having trouble sleeping? [00:32:09] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:32:10] Speaker 1: - But you weren't actually down there watching her sleep. You're getting this information from her, correct? [00:32:14] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:32:23] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that out of the Zoloft prescription she was given, she only took seven pills? [00:32:30] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:32:37] Speaker 1: - After you had the conversation with Lindsay where she said she was going to double the dose of Zoloft, did you notice any difference in her demeanor or behavior? [00:32:47] Patrick Clancy: - I would say yes. I don't know if I connected it with the doubling of her Zoloft, but over that period of time, she just kept getting worse and worse. [00:33:00] Speaker 1: - And what period of time was that? What month are we in? [00:33:03] Patrick Clancy: - Mid-October to the end of December. [00:33:06] Speaker 1: - Okay. So she got the prescription in September, started taking it in October, took seven pills, but was having difficulty in December. Is that what you're saying? - Yes. [00:33:18] Patrick Clancy: - From this medication? - Well, I don't know which medication it was from, but yeah. [00:33:22] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:33:26] Speaker 1: - At some point in time, did she, Lindsay switch providers? [00:33:30] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:33:31] Speaker 1: - And why did she do that? [00:33:34] Patrick Clancy: - Because the, whatever she was doing with Jennifer Tufts, it wasn't working. She was just, she was only getting worse. And she thought that it would be better if she worked with, I guess, more of like a perinatal psychiatrist. [00:33:52] Speaker 1: - And did she get a referral or a recommendation of where to go? [00:33:56] Patrick Clancy: - I think so, yeah. [00:33:57] Speaker 1: - Do you know who gave her that recommendation? [00:33:59] Patrick Clancy: - It might've been my mother. [00:34:01] Speaker 1: - And your mother's a nurse at South Shore Hospital, correct? [00:34:03] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker 1: - Does she also do labor and delivery work? [00:34:06] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:34:07] Speaker 1: - Okay. And so do you know which provider or which office she recommended? [00:34:15] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. - Julie Paul. [00:34:18] Speaker 1: - And was she at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic? [00:34:21] Patrick Clancy: - Something like that, yeah. - Okay. [00:34:22] Speaker 1: And do you know when that was? [00:34:26] Patrick Clancy: - I don't know the dates on that. [00:34:33] Speaker 1: - Do you recall saying previously that it was towards the end of November? [00:34:38] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, that sounds, that sounds accurate, yeah. [00:34:41] Speaker 1: - Okay. And you said she initially saw someone named Julie Paul. Is that correct? [00:34:48] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:34:49] Speaker 1: - Okay. And do you know how long she saw Julie Paul at that facility? [00:34:56] Patrick Clancy: - I think it was only four or five days. [00:34:59] Speaker 1: - And were you aware that Julie Paul left that office? [00:35:03] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:35:04] Speaker 1: - And do you know who Lindsay saw after Julie Paul? [00:35:08] Patrick Clancy: - Rebecca Gelata. [00:35:10] Speaker 1: - And was Rebecca Gelata a nurse practitioner? [00:35:12] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:35:15] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that she also saw a licensed social worker therapist named Leticia Dukes while she was at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic? [00:35:27] Patrick Clancy: - I don't recall Leticia Dukes, but it's possible. [00:35:31] Speaker 1: - So Lindsay never told you that she had therapy sessions with a person named Leticia Dukes during that timeframe? [00:35:37] Patrick Clancy: - I don't remember any therapy sessions, no. [00:35:40] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:35:44] Speaker 1: After switching to Julie Paul and then Rebecca Gelata, did Lindsay start coming home with different prescription bottles? [00:35:56] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:35:57] Speaker 1: - Okay. And were some of these medications that she came home with, were some of them during the time she was with Dr. Tufts? [00:36:08] Patrick Clancy: - I think some of them were, yep. [00:36:09] Speaker 1: - And some of them were while she was with Julie Paul, is that correct? [00:36:13] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:36:14] Speaker 1: - And then some while she was with nurse practitioner Gelata, is that correct? [00:36:18] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:36:19] Speaker 1: - Okay. - And would it be accurate to state that you provided the district attorney's office with a printout from CVS Pharmacy of all the prescriptions that were filled for Lindsay from September through January, September 2022 through January of 2023? [00:36:50] Speaker 3: - Yes. - Any objection? [00:36:55] Speaker 4: - No, of course not. - Can I ask her to give it to you? [00:36:56] Speaker 3: - Sure, yeah. In members of the jury, one of the things I forgot to tell you is anything that's entered as an exhibit, you'll have with you in the deliberating room when you're deliberating. So you'll have a chance to go over that as well. So you'll have anything that's marked as an exhibit, okay? Thank you. [00:37:23] Speaker 1: - Now, while she was taking these medications, the various pills, were you always with her watching and monitoring exactly what she took? [00:37:32] Patrick Clancy: - Not always, no. [00:37:34] Speaker 1: - Sometimes you'd see it, sometimes you wouldn't? [00:37:36] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:37:40] Speaker 1: - Directing your attention to February 6th, 2023, did you go to the district attorney's office and or have your attorney go there and provide a bag of prescription medication that had belonged to Lindsay? [00:37:55] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. I think the police took a bag of prescription medications that night, the night my kids passed away. And then, there was a bag that I had in my truck that I was supposed to, nurse practitioner, which a lot I said, you can bring them to like a police station, they get rid of them for you. But I never got around to it. [00:38:23] Speaker 1: - And where had you stored those in your truck? [00:38:27] Patrick Clancy: - In the center console, it's like underneath the center console that opens. [00:38:33] Speaker 1: - You have one of those center consoles that open up, but then there's another larger compartment below it? - Correct, yeah. - So was it your plan to bring these to a location where they could be properly disposed? [00:38:44] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, I didn't wanna just throw 'em in the trash, so. [00:38:48] Speaker 1: - And these were all medications that had been prescribed in the past to Lindsay, but she was no longer taking, correct? [00:38:55] Patrick Clancy: - Right. [00:39:03] Speaker 4: - I don't think I have any objection to any of their exhibits, so she doesn't have to keep showing it to me. That's fine. [00:39:09] Speaker 3: - So I'll assume if you do have an objection, just rise, let me know. - Okay, thank you. [00:39:15] Speaker 1: - So for the record, I'm back here with nine pill bottles as exhibit two, please. [00:39:27] Speaker 3: - Thank you. [00:39:37] Speaker 1: - And so looking in exhibit two, we have the Zoloft that was prescribed by Dr. Tufts and filled on September 15th, 2022. And I think I asked you earlier, you weren't aware that only seven pills were taken out of this, correct? [00:39:57] Patrick Clancy: - That's correct. [00:39:58] Speaker 1: - Okay. And then there's another prescription in here for Ativan that was filled on October 26th, 2022. Were you aware that only six pills were taken out of that bottle? [00:40:12] Patrick Clancy: - Can you say the date again? [00:40:13] Speaker 1: - October 26th, 2022. [00:40:16] Patrick Clancy: - And how many did it start with? [00:40:18] Speaker 1: - Let me see. [00:40:35] Speaker ?: - 30 pills. - Okay. [00:40:37] Patrick Clancy: - I mean, I don't have those exact numbers on how many she took, but there were adjustments made on the dosage of the Ativan. So that aligns with what happened. [00:41:00] Speaker 1: - But the question was, were you aware that only six pills were taken out of this prescription? [00:41:07] Patrick Clancy: - No, but I think the context is important. [00:41:09] Speaker 1: - Okay. Were you aware that there was a prescription for Busparon or Buspar filled on October 26th, 2022, in which only two pills were taken out of the 30 that were prescribed? [00:41:24] Patrick Clancy: - Um, I found out about the Buspar later and, um, I, I didn't know about the number of pills taken. [00:41:32] Speaker 1: - And then were you aware that there was a prescription for hydroxynine, um, prescription filled on October 26th, 2022 for 30 pills and that, um, only three pills were taken out of this bottle. [00:41:48] Patrick Clancy: - Um, which? - Hydroxynine. - Yeah, what is that? [00:41:51] Speaker 1: - I believe it's in some type of, similar to an antihistamine like Benadryl or something like that. [00:41:57] Patrick Clancy: - Oh, okay, um, I don't really recall much about that drug. [00:42:02] Speaker 1: - Okay. And were you aware in this bag there was another prescription for Buspar that was filled on November 9th, 2022. 30 pills, um, prescribed, um, and no pills were taken out of this bottle. Were you aware of that? [00:42:27] Patrick Clancy: - I, I wasn't keeping track of the number of pills taken out of each bottle. - Okay. [00:42:32] Speaker ?: - So. [00:42:33] Speaker 1: - And then, um, just ask you about one more. Um, the Trazodone prescribed on November 16th, 2022, um, by a doctor from South Shore Hospital, um, 30 pills. Were you aware that only seven and a half pills were taken out of this prescription? [00:42:52] Speaker ?: - No. [00:42:53] Speaker 1: - So there were a lot of pills prescribed, but not a lot of pills taken, correct? [00:43:00] Patrick Clancy: - Um, is that comprehensive of all the pills that were prescribed? [00:43:05] Speaker 1: - These are the pills that you brought into the police station. So out of these? [00:43:09] Patrick Clancy: - Out of those, yeah. It's possible that not a lot were taken. [00:43:27] Speaker 1: - Do you recall what was the most amount of pills prescribed? That's, I guess I could ask this better. Um, what was the maximum number of medications she was on at any one time? [00:43:43] Patrick Clancy: - I want to say three or four. - Okay. [00:43:51] Speaker 1: - Would it surprise you to know that she, at any given time, the most she was prescribed was three, but most of the time, it was two medications that she was prescribed at any given time? [00:44:03] Patrick Clancy: - It wouldn't be terribly surprising, no. [00:44:06] Speaker 1: - Now, um, on November 16th, 2022, did Lindsay visit South Shore Hospital? [00:44:15] Patrick Clancy: - Uh, yes. - Okay. [00:44:17] Speaker 1: And, um, why did she go to the, uh, South Shore Hospital that day? [00:44:22] Patrick Clancy: - I believe that day was because she basically went 48 hours without sleeping. [00:44:27] Speaker 1: - And, um, was she having heart palpitations? [00:44:31] Patrick Clancy: - I think so, yeah. [00:44:32] Speaker 1: Were you aware that she had taken a weed gummy that day? [00:44:38] Patrick Clancy: - Um, I don't recall. [00:44:42] Speaker 1: - And are you aware that she didn't tell medical staff at the hospital when describing her symptoms and her medication that she left out, that she had used marijuana? [00:44:52] Patrick Clancy: - I wasn't with her, so I don't know what she talked about at the hospital. [00:44:56] Speaker 1: - So she drove herself to the hospital? [00:44:59] Patrick Clancy: - She did. [00:45:00] Speaker 1: - Yes. - And, um, she drove herself home from the hospital then? Is that correct? [00:45:04] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:45:08] Speaker 1: - Now, during this timeframe between September and November of 2022, um, are you still participating in, in activities as a family? [00:45:18] Patrick Clancy: - Between November and December? [00:45:20] Speaker 1: - Between September and November? [00:45:21] Patrick Clancy: - Um, yeah. [00:45:23] Speaker 1: - Okay. And what types of things were you doing? [00:45:27] Patrick Clancy: - Um, we celebrated Halloween. I, I don't really remember what else, but I think we were doing things regularly. [00:45:43] Speaker 1: - Do you recall going to an event, um, with food trucks? [00:45:54] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:45:55] Speaker 1: - Yeah. - And do you recall going to an event, um, in November, um, where there were trains to ride with the kids? [00:46:04] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:46:09] Speaker 1: - So we have, um, the photo from the food truck event, that it is, it did at three. And the photo from the train event, it is, it did at four. - Three and four somewhere. [00:46:26] Speaker ?: Can I may publish? - You may. [00:46:34] Speaker 1: - So exhibit three is this, um, Lindsay, Cora, and Callan, um, at that event? - Yeah. - And exhibit four, this Lindsay with all three kids at that event in November? [00:46:46] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:46:52] Speaker ?: - Did you have plans for Thanksgiving that year? [00:47:02] Speaker 1: - Yeah. - What were your plans? [00:47:06] Patrick Clancy: - Um, I believe the order was, we went to Wallingford where her parents lived in the week before. And then the week after, um, we went to my sister's house. [00:47:18] Speaker 1: - Um, and, um, where did your sister live? What town? [00:47:22] Patrick Clancy: - South Hamilton. [00:47:23] Speaker 1: - And, um, that was a week after Thanksgiving? Is that right, correct? [00:47:29] Patrick Clancy: - I think so, yeah. Yeah, it was. [00:47:37] Speaker 1: - And is this a, a photo from, um, Thanksgiving at your sister's house? [00:47:43] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:47:44] Speaker 1: - I could have this photo marked as exhibit five, I believe. [00:47:47] Speaker 3: - Right, that may be marked. [00:47:50] Speaker ?: - Five. [00:47:58] Speaker 1: Showing you what's been marked. Exhibit five. Is this Lindsay here on the left? [00:48:04] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:48:05] Speaker 1: - Um, and are those your sisters in the photo with her? [00:48:09] Patrick Clancy: - That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law. [00:48:11] Speaker 1: - Okay. And have they coordinated outfits for the day? The shirts? [00:48:16] Patrick Clancy: - Um, yeah, I think my sister did. [00:48:23] Speaker 1: - What was, um, Lindsay's demeanor that day? [00:48:27] Patrick Clancy: - Uh, she was in rough shape. [00:48:29] Speaker 1: - Rough shape? - Yeah. [00:48:31] Patrick Clancy: - How so? - She wasn't talking much. She had low energy. She was really depressed. And I just remember when she showed up, um, my sister-in-law gave her a big hug. [00:48:41] Speaker 1: - And, um, she was able to get through dinner, eat dinner with everyone? [00:48:46] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:48:47] Speaker 1: - Okay. - Um, she interacted with people. Is that correct? [00:48:50] Patrick Clancy: - I would say very little, but to some degree, sure. [00:48:55] Speaker 1: - And she took care of the kids with you while she was there? [00:48:58] Patrick Clancy: - We both took care of the kids together. [00:49:00] Speaker ?: - Okay. [00:49:05] Speaker 1: - You mentioned earlier that your wedding anniversary is in December. Is that correct? [00:49:10] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:49:11] Speaker 1: - Okay. - Do you recall going out for your anniversary on December 3rd, 2022, going into Boston? [00:49:19] Patrick Clancy: - No, we didn't go out. [00:49:21] Speaker 1: - You don't recall, um, arranging for a massage for Lindsay and then going to the Omni Parker house and, um, going out to dinner that night? [00:49:30] Patrick Clancy: - No, December 3rd, 2022, we stayed home. [00:49:33] Speaker 1: - You stayed home, okay. - Showing you a photo of you and Lindsay. - Do you recognize this photo? [00:50:04] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:50:04] Speaker 1: - And when was that taken? [00:50:08] Patrick Clancy: - I, I'm not really sure. [00:50:10] Speaker 1: - It wasn't taken on December 3rd when you were out celebrating your anniversary? [00:50:14] Patrick Clancy: - In 2022? [00:50:15] Speaker 1: - Yes. [00:50:16] Patrick Clancy: - No. No, we, we wanted to go out, um, but we canceled because she wasn't feeling well. So we stayed home, we got takeout. [00:50:27] Speaker 1: - Okay. - Did you also, um, in, no, on November 26th, 2022, um, go out as a family to get a Christmas tree? - Yes. [00:50:41] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:50:42] Speaker ?: - Well, probably, I don't know. [00:50:43] Patrick Clancy: But yeah, around that time, yes. - I don't know, but yeah, around that time, yes. - Okay. [00:50:54] Speaker 1: - Showing you two photos, are these from that day when you, uh, got the Christmas tree? [00:51:00] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, that looks accurate. [00:51:07] Speaker 1: - We have the first photos of all five. - This one is exhibit. - Six. - And then the second one is exhibit seven. [00:51:24] Speaker ?: - Exhibit seven. [00:51:30] Speaker 1: - Showing you exhibit six. - With all of you at the tree farm? [00:51:39] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:51:41] Speaker 1: - And exhibit seven, those are the kids? [00:51:44] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:51:57] Speaker 1: - Around December 6th, 2022, did Lindsay tell you she was starting a new medication? [00:52:06] Patrick Clancy: - Uh, I don't remember specifically. [00:52:11] Speaker 1: - Is it that you don't remember the date or you don't remember her starting a new medication? [00:52:16] Patrick Clancy: - I'm not sure. [00:52:18] Speaker 1: - Do you remember Lindsay telling you at some point she was starting the medication Seroquel? [00:52:23] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [00:52:24] Speaker 1: - Do you remember around what timeframe that was? [00:52:27] Patrick Clancy: - I thought it was before December 6th. - Okay. [00:52:35] Speaker 1: - And do you recall how she was physically after starting the Seroquel? [00:52:47] Patrick Clancy: - Awful. [00:52:48] Speaker 1: - How so? [00:52:51] Patrick Clancy: - That was really where her big spiral started. - She started to lose a lot of weight and she became very depressed and she was having a really hard time. [00:53:04] Speaker 1: - And did she describe to you some thoughts or feelings that she was having at that time? [00:53:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, she started to say she was suicidal. [00:53:16] Speaker 1: - And was that in December of 2022? [00:53:18] Patrick Clancy: - I think so, yeah. [00:53:19] Speaker 1: - Okay, and when she told you she was suicidal, did you ask her if she had a plan on how to kill herself? - Yes. - And what was her response? [00:53:30] Patrick Clancy: - She said no. [00:53:32] Speaker 1: - And did she ever mention a specific way or plan she had to kill herself to you? [00:53:38] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:53:41] Speaker 1: - And at some point in time, did she tell you that this was the first time she had had suicidal thoughts? [00:53:54] Patrick Clancy: - I don't know if she mentioned it was the first time or not. I just remember her saying she had them. [00:53:58] Speaker 1: - Had you ever heard her say that to you before that she was having suicidal thoughts? [00:54:03] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:54:07] Speaker 1: - Did you own at that time a Surface Pro, a type of tablet that works as a laptop? [00:54:12] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:54:13] Speaker 1: - And who had access to that laptop? [00:54:16] Patrick Clancy: - We both did. [00:54:18] Speaker 1: - You and Lindsey? [00:54:19] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:54:20] Speaker 1: - And going back to August 22nd, 2022, did you click on a link on that Surface Pro that was titled Methods of Suicide? [00:54:30] Patrick Clancy: - Not that I recall. [00:54:33] Speaker 1: - And August 22nd, 2022, that was before Lindsey had been on any medications, as far as you know, correct? [00:54:40] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:54:46] Speaker 1: - Going back to December, she's told you that she's having these thoughts. What's your reaction when she tells you that she's having these suicidal thoughts? [00:55:01] Patrick Clancy: - I just wanted to support her. I asked those questions back to her and her mother was coming up pretty regularly anyways, so we let them know and we just try to be supportive. [00:55:17] Speaker 1: - Did she also tell you at that time, at the beginning of December, that she was having some other intrusive thoughts? - Yeah. - Is that how she described them or how you described them, intrusive thoughts? [00:55:28] Patrick Clancy: - I would say both. [00:55:30] Speaker 1: - Okay. And when she told you that she was having intrusive thoughts, did you ask her what they were? - Yeah. - And what was her response? [00:55:40] Patrick Clancy: - She described thoughts of hurting the kids or them having some sort of ailment. So like she was very worried that Cora had, whenever she had a stomachache, she became overly worried that she was, had like a liver problem or something much more dramatic than it was. [00:56:02] Speaker 1: - Okay. But going back to that first part, she said she had thoughts of harming the kids. Is that correct? [00:56:08] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:56:09] Speaker 1: - And did she tell you whether or not she had specific thoughts of how she would harm the kids? [00:56:15] Patrick Clancy: - No. [00:56:16] Speaker 1: - And she didn't describe that as hearing this external voice telling her to harm the kids, correct? [00:56:22] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:56:23] Speaker 1: - She told you she was having intrusive thoughts herself of having, of harming the children, correct? [00:56:30] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [00:56:32] Speaker 1: - And did you ask her how she was going to harm the kids? [00:56:38] Patrick Clancy: - I didn't ask it in that way. It was the same thing. I said, "Do you have a plan and is it disturbing to you?" And she said, "No." And then she said, "Yes." And-- [00:56:47] Speaker 1: - Let me go back for a minute there. You said, "Do you have a plan?" And she said, "No." What was the second question? Second part of the question? [00:56:55] Patrick Clancy: Is it, "Do you find it disturbing?" And she said, "Yes." And she described it as really the way she was describing it as something that might happen to the kids. [00:57:07] Speaker 1: - So it was more something might happen than she might do something. Is that correct? [00:57:11] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:57:13] Speaker 1: - And did she tell you how long she had those thoughts for? [00:57:20] Patrick Clancy: - She didn't give a duration. [00:57:23] Speaker 1: - And how many times did she tell you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids? [00:57:31] Patrick Clancy: - Couple times. [00:57:32] Speaker 1: - And was that a couple times over the course of a night or two in December? [00:57:37] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [00:57:38] Speaker 1: - And as a result of her telling you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids, what did you do? [00:57:45] Patrick Clancy: - Her parents came up. And I think I asked her at some point, "Do you feel like you need to be kept away from them?" And she said, "No." And then, you know, it was very confusing because a minute later she was making them lunch or playing with them or, you know, getting them ready for bed or whatever it was, so. [00:58:06] Speaker 1: - So it was confusing in that she wasn't physically harming them at the time, but was having, had had these thoughts. Is that what you're saying? [00:58:14] Patrick Clancy: - Right. [00:58:15] Speaker 1: - And did you also, as a result of these statements, suggest an appointment with a nurse practitioner, Gelada? - It wasn't as a result of these statements. [00:58:29] Patrick Clancy: That appointment was set up because we were at her parents' house in Wallingford for Thanksgiving. and she just described how she was feeling on the medication and she felt that she was, she felt that she was addicted to them. [00:58:50] Speaker 1: - Was that the benzodiazepines that she thought she was addicted to? [00:58:54] Patrick Clancy: - Primarily. And then she was taking Seroquel at the same time. And she might've been taking Trazodone or Remeron, I'm not sure. [00:59:02] Speaker 1: - Okay. Are you, do you recall testifying previously that I called her parents to come up to stay with us and I told her that we needed, I asked her who her doctor was because I was very concerned at this point. She was prescribed 10 different medications in just over two months, so it didn't make sense to me. And then you said, so after her parents came up, she said, I have a remote meeting with Rebecca Gelada and you said, no, it has to be in person. [00:59:28] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, I felt like it had to be in person because I just felt like there was a disconnect. I felt like we could figure it out, whatever was going on. So most of her, it seemed like most of her telehealth appointments were pretty quick. And there just wasn't like a lot of attention. [00:59:49] Speaker 1: - Were you present for these telehealth visits? [00:59:52] Patrick Clancy: - Only a few of them. And they were after that meeting with Gelada. [00:59:56] Speaker 1: - Okay. So that appointment in person with Gelada was December 6th, 2022, is that correct? [01:00:01] Patrick Clancy: - That sounds correct. [01:00:05] Speaker 1: - So the thought of harming the kids was after Thanksgiving, but before December 6th, is that correct? [01:00:13] Patrick Clancy: - That sounds correct. [01:00:16] Speaker 1: - Were you concerned for the kids' safety at that time? [01:00:19] Patrick Clancy: - No, I wasn't. [01:00:20] Speaker 1: - And why not? [01:00:21] Patrick Clancy: - Because she wasn't showing any intention of harming the kids. [01:00:25] Speaker 1: - And she told you she didn't have a plan, is that correct? [01:00:28] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [01:00:36] Speaker 1: - Now, directing your attention to December 15th, 2022, did Lindsay go to Mass Journal Hospital to the emergency department that day? [01:00:51] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:00:52] Speaker 1: - Okay, and why was that? [01:00:54] Patrick Clancy: - I remember the reasoning being, she told her dad that she wanted to commit suicide. And then she said to me, I told my dad I want to die, and it didn't bother me at all. [01:01:09] Speaker 1: - And... As a result of those statements, you brought her or did she bring herself to Mass General? [01:01:27] Patrick Clancy: - I think I brought her that time. [01:01:29] Speaker 1: - And at Mass General, she saw medical staff, correct? [01:01:34] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:01:35] Speaker 1: - And did they recommend to her some type of admission to McLean Hospital? [01:01:44] Patrick Clancy: - I remember there was one doctor who was in favor of that, and there were two others who were more in favor of a day program. [01:01:51] Speaker 1: - Okay, and did they give you information about a specific day program? [01:01:56] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, it was Women and Infants in Providence. [01:01:59] Speaker 1: - And at that time when Lindsay was saying that she was suicidal, what she asked if she had a plan? [01:02:08] Patrick Clancy: - By the doctors. [01:02:09] Speaker 1: - Or by you. [01:02:12] Patrick Clancy: - I was always checking in with her and she never told me that she had a plan. I'm not sure what the doctors asked her. [01:02:18] Speaker ?: - Okay. [01:02:21] Speaker 1: And after being at Mass General on December 15th, did she go to Women and Infants Hospital in Rhode Island to attempt to get into their postpartum program? [01:02:36] Patrick Clancy: - She was already in, she went in as scheduled. [01:02:39] Speaker 1: - Okay, but she didn't remain in, correct? She was just there for a day? [01:02:43] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [01:02:45] Speaker 1: - Okay, and did she go by herself? Did you go with her? [01:02:49] Patrick Clancy: - I dropped her off and then I took Dawson skiing. [01:02:51] Speaker 1: - Okay. And at some point in time, did Lindsay reach out to you to say if she wasn't staying at the program and to come pick her up? [01:03:01] Patrick Clancy: - She actually said that the providers at that program suggested to her that she call me and have her come get picked up and then that I should go in and meet with the providers. [01:03:12] Speaker 1: - Okay. And then after you picked her up, you didn't, she was no longer in the program at that point, correct? At Rhode Island Women and Children's, right? [01:03:25] Patrick Clancy: - Well, we discussed it with the doctors and their recommendation was that the program wasn't right for her. [01:03:29] Speaker 1: - Right. And so you guys returned home, is that correct? [01:03:34] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [01:03:35] Speaker 1: - Okay. - And during this timeframe in December, Lindsay's still working out at the Kingsbury club, correct? [01:03:51] Patrick Clancy: - That might be true. I don't recall exactly, but yeah. [01:03:54] Speaker ?: - Okay. [01:04:01] Speaker 1: - Do you recall her going to the Kingsbury club on December 6th, 13th, 16th, 17th, or 18th? [01:04:09] Patrick Clancy: - I mean, I believe that can be true. Yeah, I don't recall those exact dates, but yeah. [01:04:18] Speaker 1: - At this time when she's saying that she's feeling suicidal, she's telling you she doesn't have a plan, correct? - She's no longer saying she has any thoughts of harming the children, correct? [01:04:34] Patrick Clancy: - Correct. [01:04:36] Speaker 1: - She's still bringing the children to doctor's appointments during that time, right? [01:04:41] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:04:42] Speaker 1: - Do you recall her bringing Callan and Dawson to the doctors on December 2nd, when they weren't feeling well? [01:04:51] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:04:52] Speaker 1: - And then she was able to call the doctor's office on December 27th and make an appointment for Callan and Cora when they weren't feeling well. Do you remember that? [01:05:02] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:05:03] Speaker 1: - And take them to the doctor, I believe with you, correct? [01:05:09] Patrick Clancy: - Maybe, I don't know. [01:05:12] Speaker 1: - And then on December 30th, she was able to take Callan to the doctor that day as well and interact with the staff, is that correct? [01:05:21] Patrick Clancy: - Probably. [01:05:25] Speaker 1: - Then you returned to Mass General Hospital, the emergency department on December 31st, is that correct? [01:05:33] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [01:05:34] Speaker 1: - And why did you go back on the 31st? [01:05:38] Patrick Clancy: - Because she was still talking about thoughts of suicide and I was exhausted. I said, "I think it's time to go to McLean." And we didn't have a diagnosis. So we just didn't really know what was wrong. And I think for me, I was hoping that McLean could really evaluate her and try to figure out the best path forward. [01:06:06] Speaker 1: - Okay, so the path to getting to McLean was to go to the emergency department at Mass General and be referred to McLean, is that correct? [01:06:13] Patrick Clancy: - Yes. [01:06:18] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that that night, while at the hospital, Lindsay was taking selfies? [01:06:29] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:06:44] Speaker 3: - All right, that may be admitted. They may be admitted. [01:06:56] Speaker 1: - Can you exhibit me? - Is he taking a selfie at the hospital? Is that correct? [01:07:05] Patrick Clancy: - Are you asking me? [01:07:06] Speaker 1: - Yes. [01:07:07] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, I can see that. [01:07:09] Speaker 1: - And then the second page is just her legs in the doorway. Is that correct? [01:07:14] Speaker ?: - Yep. [01:07:27] Speaker 1: - As a result of going to Mass General and telling them about her suicidal thoughts, was she transferred to McLean Hospital? - Yeah. - Okay. And did you stay with her throughout that transfer process or were you able to? [01:07:44] Patrick Clancy: - I was not able to. For some reason, they transfer. I don't know if they do this with all patients, but she was transferred at three in the morning. [01:07:52] Speaker 1: - Okay. And so she reached McLean in the early morning hours of January 1st then of 2023, is that correct? [01:08:00] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:08:01] Speaker 1: - Okay. And did you visit her at McLean Hospital? [01:08:04] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah. [01:08:05] Speaker 1: - How often did you see her there? [01:08:07] Patrick Clancy: - I think I was able to go twice or maybe three times. [01:08:11] Speaker 1: - Okay. And do you remember what visiting hours were or what hours you visited? [01:08:16] Patrick Clancy: - I don't remember exactly, but it was something like two to six. And I think there were morning hours or, but you couldn't just go anytime. [01:08:23] Speaker 1: - You couldn't or could? [01:08:24] Patrick Clancy: - You could not. [01:08:25] Speaker 1: - Okay. And so out of the few days that she was there, what five days she was there, you visited two or three times. Is that correct? - Yeah. - And while you were there with her, did she, did Lindsay talk to you about the treatment that she was receiving at McLean Hospital? [01:08:46] Patrick Clancy: - She told me about her experience. - It didn't really seem like she was getting any treatment. [01:08:50] Speaker 1: - Okay. Did she tell you that she wasn't really getting any treatment or wasn't getting as much care or treatment as she wanted? [01:08:59] Patrick Clancy: - Well, I think by the third day, I said, what have the doctors said? And she said, I haven't met with the doctor. The challenge was she arrived on a Saturday and then I think Monday was an observed holiday. So she didn't see a doctor until Tuesday. So until then she was coloring and playing with clay and going for walks. [01:09:21] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that she was seen by a resident, a doctor, the first two days she was there and then an attending on the third day that she was there? [01:09:32] Patrick Clancy: - No. [01:09:32] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that she was seen by a licensed social worker, group therapist, and other mental health workers every day while she was there? [01:09:41] Patrick Clancy: - No, I didn't get any updates. [01:09:43] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that she was offered one-on-one therapy by unit staff every day that she was there? [01:09:50] Speaker ?: - No. [01:09:51] Speaker 1: - Did you know that she participated in group therapy on January 1st for 45 minutes, a session about illness and symptom management? [01:09:59] Patrick Clancy: - I was aware of some group activities. I didn't know the details of it. [01:10:04] Speaker 1: - And were you aware that she participated in two group therapy sessions, one for 45 minutes and one for 50 minutes, one on self-compassion and one on illness and symptom management on January 3rd? [01:10:17] Patrick Clancy: - I wasn't aware of the subjects of any of the meetings, no. [01:10:20] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that she declined further group therapy and treatment in the afternoon of January 3rd? - No. - Were you aware that on January 4th, she participated in a group for 40 minutes called medication management? [01:10:35] Patrick Clancy: - No. [01:10:36] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that she participated in a group on January 5th on expressive therapy for 45 minutes? - No. - And were you aware that she declined further treatment two times on January 5th, one to attend group therapy and one to attend a session on cognitive behavioral processes? [01:10:55] Speaker ?: - No. [01:10:58] Speaker 1: - Were you aware that Lindsay asked the doctors to be discharged on the 6th, Friday the 6th, because she wanted to go to Cora's birthday party on the 7th? [01:11:10] Patrick Clancy: - Not that I recall. [01:11:12] Speaker 1: - Were you aware or did Lindsay tell you that she then asked the doctors to discharge her on January 5th because she wanted to go home and get ready for the party? [01:11:24] Patrick Clancy: - I wasn't aware of Lindsay asking the doctors to be discharged. [01:11:28] Speaker ?: - Okay. [01:11:32] Speaker 1: Were there any insurance issues in terms of insurance refusing to pay for her stay at McLean Hospital? [01:11:39] Patrick Clancy: - We didn't really get to that point. [01:11:41] Speaker 1: - You weren't advised by the social worker or any staff there that there were any issues with your insurance, is that correct? [01:11:50] Patrick Clancy: - Yeah, that's correct, but I wouldn't have cared either. [01:11:52] Speaker 1: - Would you have just paid for it if needed? [01:11:54] Patrick Clancy: - I would have paid anything, yeah. [01:12:01] Speaker 3: - Ms. Sprigg, is this a good time to break? - Yes. - All right, so, Mr. Drew, we're gonna break for the afternoon recess and we'll see you back here about two o'clock.