MUST-SEE RESPONSE to Trump’s INSANE family GRIFT

[0:00] All right. Hello, everyone. My name is Antonia Hilton, and I am here today in conversation with [0:05] Brian Tyler Cohen. He is the author of the incredible new book, The Day After How to [0:11] Wield Power in a Post-Trump World. He's also the host of the No Lie podcast. Brian, it is so good [0:17] to see you. Thanks for joining me. So good to see you, too. Thanks for having me. So I want to start [0:22] before we dig deep into your book, I want to start with some news of day. This week, it seems that [0:29] war is fully back on with Iran. Not only have we seen Hegseth on Capitol Hill claiming that the [0:36] cost is around $38 billion, a number that already a number of lawmakers and leaders in the U.S. are [0:42] casting doubt on. But we have the dignified transfer of fallen U.S. service members happening this week. [0:48] The president sharing a social media post comparing the lives lost in Iran to past military conflicts [0:56] and wars. And it felt really distasteful to a lot of people. And I'm wondering, as this is all turning [1:03] into something of a quagmire, what you think the story of Iran is through the prism of the question [1:09] about the sort of threads of our democracy and the use of power in the United States right now? [1:17] I mean, I think it puts on full display the extent to which Donald Trump is willing [1:21] to abuse every ounce of power he has. And look, this is an unpopular war. It's a war that [1:28] shockingly benefits his family financially because you have his kids now that are invested in companies [1:35] that are getting military defense contracts. It's something that is completely antithetical to what [1:40] he himself said on the campaign trail. But when Donald Trump views power, he doesn't consider how it [1:46] impacts anybody else. He doesn't consider whether it's popular or not. He just wants to wield it to [1:51] the fullest extent. And so I argue in this book that Democrats have to learn a little bit from [1:56] the ease with which Trump wields power, but to do it in a virtuous way, not to do it for [2:02] self-enrichment, not to do it to heap money onto his family, not to build vanity projects to yourself, [2:08] but rather to deliver on health care, to deliver on voting rights, to deliver on climate change [2:13] legislation, you name it. But you're right. If I just say something on how he's kind of acted this [2:20] week as it relates to the war, you know, the dignified transfer situation is the perfect [2:26] microcosm for how this guy views the sacrifices that Americans have made. I mean, he, you know, [2:34] for him to basically put words in the mouths of these dead soldiers and say, oh, they all said that [2:40] we can't have Iran with a nuclear weapon. That's what Trump says. But now he's viewing their deaths [2:47] as a way to exploit the agenda that he's trying to perpetuate. And it's not the only time that he's [2:52] done that, where he's put words in the mouth of a dead person. He did it with Lindsey Graham just a [2:56] few days ago. And so there is nothing too sacrosanct for this person, whether these, whether the people [3:02] that he's exploiting are living or dead, for him to use them as a way to advance his own personal [3:09] partisan agenda. I mean, that, and you have to keep in mind, one of the four service members [3:14] is a 19 year old woman, someone who just graduated from high school. I just keep thinking about her [3:21] and her family as the president will presumably share some thoughts and remarks with them this week [3:27] as he's sort of, he claims to be honoring them and their sacrifice in service of a war that [3:35] are elected representatives. And therefore we never got any kind of a say in. I just keep thinking [3:42] about the fact that this, this woman is just 19. Her life was just beginning. And now this. [3:47] Well, it's not only that we didn't get a say in it. It's that we did have a say in the sense that [3:52] Trump was elected on this idea, on the premise that he wouldn't get us into these wars. So if anything, [3:59] the American people had a say, and that say was no new foreign wars. And yet here we are. [4:03] And again, I know that I keep going back to this idea, but there, there really is one family in [4:08] this country that's benefiting from this financially. And that's Trump's own family [4:12] because his kids, every five minutes become invested in another company that gets military, [4:17] military defense contracts. And so if you're wondering why they're doing this, even though [4:22] it's so antithetical to what Trump said in the campaign trial, even though it's so unpopular, [4:26] even though the polling shows that Americans are sick of this thing, even though it's raising the [4:30] prices of everything here at home, making inflation higher, gas higher, and will in fact help Iran [4:37] get money in the future because now they can use the Strait of Hormuz as a permanent toll route. [4:42] Just think about who's actually benefiting financially from this. And, you know, you wouldn't [4:47] be surprised to see that Don Jr. got a $620 million military defense contract on a drone company [4:53] in a war that's largely fought with drones. Right. And meanwhile, Americans are dealing with [4:58] $4 for gas a gallon again. And, you know, we had the president earlier saying that basically [5:05] he's seen polls. I don't know what poll he was talking about, but he claims that while the American [5:10] people do not like the gas prices, that they are not mad at him over this war, that they do support [5:15] this war. And I have yet to see a poll that reflects that reality that he is trying to spread. [5:21] But I want to dig into your book. I would just ask if those polls are in the [5:24] room with us right now. Yeah. Are the polls in the room with us right now? Is it a key question [5:29] that I find myself coming back to with President Trump all of the time? Yeah. I want to read a little [5:34] bit from your book here. At one point you write, the cold hard truth is that Republicans have been [5:39] playing the long game while Democrats have been playing the wrong game. At another point you write, [5:45] Democrats are too busy believing their own myths about their ability to unify a fractured nation [5:49] with good policies and good government. And I want to dig into what you are saying there, [5:56] because I think when people maybe see the cover of your book, they see Trump there, [6:00] they might think this is a book about Trump. But fundamentally, it's a book about sort of the [6:03] soul of the Democratic Party and where things may have gone wrong and how you turn the page [6:09] after the next election. And why was it important for you to take that framing on? [6:13] I think that was important because, you know, Republicans are really good at laying out their [6:19] plans. And even if it takes them decades to get to where they want to go, they're very effective at [6:24] seeing those things through. You know, gerrymandering, for example, was a project that they unleashed [6:29] in 2010 in the immediate aftermath of Barack Obama's election. And here we are in 2026 watching [6:34] Republicans see the fruits of their labor as the Voting Rights Act gets gutted. And as just this [6:41] cycle alone, they've written out or drawn out 12 largely black representatives from these black [6:48] opportunity districts. And so, you know, this is not a plan that they just cooked up yesterday. [6:53] It's something that they've been working toward for a decade. And in large part, a lot of these [6:58] Republican plans are carried out over the course of decades. And so I think that we have to recognize [7:04] the extent to which these people will stop at nothing. The Republican Party, the MAGA Republican [7:09] Party will stop at nothing to see these plans carried out and executed, even if it takes them [7:15] years to do so. And that Democrats have to have to see that and say, we are not here to simply protect [7:23] the institutions of government. We're not here simply to defend our norms and traditions and [7:29] processes, that we're not here in government. We don't get elected to make sure that the [7:32] parliamentarian and the filibuster are intact. We're here to make sure that we can deliver on our agenda [7:38] because the Republicans are delivering on theirs. That agenda is unpopular. It's anti small d [7:43] Democratic, but they're still delivering on it. And so if we don't start playing the same game with the [7:49] same mentality that they have, again, for virtuous reasons, but fighting in the same way that they're [7:53] fighting, we're going to lose everything at the hands of a party that does not think Democrats have [7:58] the right to exist in this country. You know, I'm so glad that you brought up the voting rights [8:03] struggle because I have to say in circles of black reporters, but also just black communities across [8:10] the country that I'm both a part of and cover, people were surprised that the Democratic Party and [8:16] its most visible sort of faces and fighters weren't doing more on that front from the get go, whether [8:24] it was around what we knew was coming from the Supreme Court, or it was around the rhetoric from [8:29] the Trump administration. And then just how quickly these states were ready to redraw all those maps and [8:36] to obliterate the voice of voters in places like Memphis. I mean, black people are warning that this was [8:42] coming. The Democratic Party had a heads up. And then it just sort of felt like it came and it went [8:48] and some people did some TV hits and said they didn't like it. But there wasn't a fight. And I think [8:53] it's one of the most undercovered stories of our moment, that particular part of it. And people were [8:57] kind of scratching their heads behind the scenes. But maybe the hurt of it all hasn't quite broken [9:03] through, I think, in the mainstream. But it does seem like such a solid example of such a clear moral [9:09] argument and fight that they didn't even get get on the mat for 100 percent. And it's it should it should [9:18] make this party ashamed that that there wasn't a bigger fight. I mean, thank God we were able to get [9:24] it done in California. But like California compared to what Republicans were able to do in Florida and Texas [9:31] and Ohio and South Carolina and Tennessee and Missouri. I mean, it's you know, the the the asymmetry of this [9:38] fight can't be overstated. And so, again, that should be a huge black eye on on on a lot of these Democrats who [9:46] viewed their role here as saying, oh, well, we have to, you know, in a vacuum, just practice good governance. But we're [9:54] going to good governance ourselves into obscurity because only one side is playing by the rules that were laid out. The other [10:00] side isn't. And we're seeing that put on full display right now. You know, I had interviewed Governor Polis in Colorado [10:07] and that interview is probably why it's been so difficult for me to get a second interview because I've [10:13] been asking and asking and asking, but pressed him on the idea of his obligation to fight back with Colorado and in light [10:24] of what we're seeing the Republicans doing across the country. And he would not budge. And he was just focused [10:31] on winning elections through, you know, good old politicking and campaigning. And I would ask him, you [10:37] know, do you feel any obligation to to to use the tools that you have at your disposal to counteract what's happening [10:45] on a national level? And he just wouldn't budge. And I think that there is this mentality among Democrats that because [10:51] Republicans are the party that wants to tear all of these institutions of government down, that our knee [10:56] jerk reaction has to be that we have to protect or preserve in amber all of our institutions and [11:02] practice good governance to the ends of the earth. And that just this this virtue unto itself is going to be [11:08] enough to to to win the day that the you know, the arc of the moral universe is long and it just bends by itself [11:14] toward justice. And it's not that. And we're seeing that it's not that. And if you don't fight for something, you're not going to win [11:20] anything. And, you know, I pushed Governor Polis. We spent 10 minutes going back and forth on this one issue [11:26] and he wouldn't budge. And thank God we're going to have a different Democrat that's going to be leading [11:31] that state that's going to recognize the urgency of this moment. But look, I think that that in large [11:35] part, a lot of the Democrats that we have across the country practice this fecklessness, this sense of of why [11:44] people think that the party is the party of strongly worded letters. And frankly, it is. And so, you know, this is [11:50] a moment that calls for people who are going to who are going to see the playing field as it exists right now. [11:55] And if you're not willing to fight on that playing field the way that you need to fight the way that we have to [11:59] preserve democracy, then step aside for somebody who will, because this is not the same era of politics as it was before. [12:05] I know the the overused phrase is this is not your your your grandpa's Republican Party, but it's not. And if you don't recognize that, [12:13] then then we're not going to have much of a democracy left to save. [12:17] Well, what's happening in Colorado with Governor Polis even goes beyond like, are you going to fight and can you stop with the strongly worded letters? [12:24] I mean, he let an election denier out, I mean, offered her forgiveness in a move that has outraged Democrats, not just in that state, but across the country. [12:34] You know, what what I guess do you fundamentally think it is that has kept the Democratic Party from taking the reins and using power when they have it at their disposal in the way that Republicans seem so comfortable doing? [12:48] Do you think it's fundamentally a problem of their generational leadership challenges right now that they just haven't had fresh blood and fresh ideas in in key positions of power? [13:02] Is it that they are sort of stuck in an old way of viewing our political establishment in the country and they're too fond of a sort of model of bipartisanship that may be sort of decades stale at this point? [13:17] What do you fundamentally think it is that's holding some of them back? [13:21] See all of the above. I think it's everything that you just listed. [13:25] I mean, look, you know, these people, I think, are in constant search for this elusive bipartisanship that never comes and it's never going to come. [13:34] And we've been practicing this this this good governance style, this compromise style, this bipartisan style for years. [13:42] You know, a good example, I think, for for folks who have been paying attention to politics for a minute or are just coming into the political process right now. [13:52] Barack Obama, when he was negotiating the ACA, spent a lot of his term or the beginnings of that negotiation deferring to Republicans and seeing what compromises he could make so that he can bring Republicans on board. [14:04] And a lot of what the ACA had initially set out to be was watered down in hopes of getting some Republicans to sign on to this thing and vote for it. [14:14] And so it was chipped away at. And at the end of the day, zero Republicans voted for this bill that was whittled away at because he thought that he was going to get buy in from the very people who were negotiating with him on that bill. [14:29] So all of that work, all of those compromises, all of those sacrifices at the end of the day were for nothing because these people had no no intention of voting for it anyway. [14:38] And I think that that's a pretty apt microcosm for what bipartisanship looks like in this era. [14:44] You know, a more recent example that I know is going to piss everybody off is Mitch McConnell changing the rules to prevent Merrick Garland from getting seated on the Supreme Court because God forbid you see a Supreme Court nominee during an election year. [14:57] Unless, of course, it's Amy Coney Barrett who gets seated while votes are already being cast. [15:02] The rules will always change. These are not good faith negotiating partners. [15:05] And I think that there is this sense among Democrats, probably because you're right, they have been there for so long. [15:10] They remember an era where there was good governance and bipartisanship and compromise. [15:15] And they hope that they can bring it back if only they confer goodwill to the other side one more time. [15:21] Maybe that's going to be the time that's going to curry some favor from from the other party. [15:25] And and frankly, if we've learned anything, it's that it's not. [15:29] And the only way to do this is to actually get into office and exercise power, not get into office and see what you can give to the other side, [15:37] but just exercise power, deliver on your mandate for getting elected. [15:41] You know, a good a good contrast, I think, is is when Republicans have full control of government, as they do right now, [15:48] they will gut Roe, gut the Voting Rights Act, eliminate health care, cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires, cut food assistance. [15:58] I mean, it is just an a right wing fever dream. [16:01] When Democrats get in office, the first thing they do there, their platonic ideal of democratic governance is, OK, how can we bring the Republicans into this process? [16:09] How can we compromise with them? Let's pass a bipartisan gun safety bill. [16:13] Let's let's pass a bipartisan infrastructure law. [16:15] And so that right there should put the asymmetry between the two sides on full display that one side wants to to to govern to the farthest fringes of their beliefs. [16:26] And the other side immediately compromises so that they can pull the other side in. [16:31] You know, to that question of asymmetry, it's come up a lot as I've covered the primaries, the Democratic primaries across the country, [16:39] because a lot of the progressive energy voters, the activists that I've spoken to, they say that one of the things that just hurts and frustrates them the most is that they get the sense sometimes that establishment figures in the Democratic Party are more comfortable punching left and going after the progressives than they are really prosecuting the case against Republicans. [17:02] Even sort of out and out election denying, you know, full blown MAGA Republicans that sometimes they find themselves wondering, do those figures dislike the younger and more progressive wing of the party even more than they dislike the people who they say are dismantling our democracy? [17:20] Yeah, I mean, look, I think that in large part we have we have an issue with a failure of Democrats to to create a bridge to the next generation. [17:30] So I don't know if it's disdain over the fact that we just are demanding that the gerontocracy gets dismantled. [17:36] I don't know if there is a legitimate a legitimate issue in terms of political ideology. [17:43] But in large part, I do think that there is a just an issue with kind of the stasis that has overtaken the party on the left. [17:51] And, you know, I'm a millennial. Millennials have been largely locked out of power for forever. [17:59] And a lot of the millennials that we're seeing gain power right now are some of the most popular figures in the country. [18:05] John Ossoff, AOC, Zoran Mamdani. [18:08] You know, the numbers bear that out. That's not just me giving my opinion on these people, although I think that they're generational talents talents unto themselves. [18:17] But, you know, to watch AOC try to be in a position where she could be the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee and Jerry Connolly face off against her, [18:31] somebody who would die five months later from throat cancer is kind of a testament to what some of the members of the Democratic Party will do to prevent some of these younger, more progressive, [18:42] but more dynamic and articulate tech savvy candidates and politicians from actually elevating to being elevated to positions of power. [18:51] I think that was a huge fumble. Thank God we've got Robert Garcia, who I think is completely adept and and qualified for this role. [18:59] And he's a great communicator. I but I also think that we can't ignore the fact that for a lot of members of the party, [19:06] they were more willing to elevate somebody who had five months left to live into a role that would be one of the principal platforms that we have, [19:17] even even while Republicans have control, then cede that ground to somebody who was, you know, who was and is probably the most the most qualified [19:27] and and charismatic and popular speaker in the Democratic Party. [19:33] Is there someone you named a few of them there? AOC, Mamdani, you have Robert Garcia. [19:39] Are there names floating around ahead of 2028 who you think really are emblematic of the kind of fighter who you think could get into office and actually take advantage of their first 100 days or so? [19:53] The way that that Trump did to kind of to match power for power. [19:57] It's a great question. There's a part of me that wants to say, like, we don't have the luxury right now of being able to opine on 2028 because it feels to politics as usual. [20:07] Like Trump is right now trying to undermine the midterms and people's abilities to vote. [20:11] He's right now trying to pass executive orders banning mail in voting, trying to pass the Save America Act, [20:15] which amounts to a federal takeover of state run elections, refusing to rule out the prospect of sending ice to the polls. [20:21] So there's a big part of me that says, like, we we do have midterms right in front of us. [20:25] And let's get through this before we we allow ourselves to do politics as usual, because this isn't a normal moment. [20:34] But at the same time, look, I think that there are some fighters in the Democratic Party. [20:38] And whether it's just for this moment right now or to see what they do in 2028. [20:42] I do think that people like AOC get it. I do think that people like John Ossoff get it. [20:47] I think that people like Gavin Newsom have shown by virtue of the fact that Prop 50 got passed in California, [20:53] that when he wants to get something done, he gets something done. [20:55] So different people land on different spots in the ideological spectrum. [20:59] Obviously, you know, those three examples that I gave just there show varied elected officials who have varied political ideologies. [21:08] But I think that they all do have have the same sense of fight. [21:11] What's interesting about those three as well is they grew up in the digital age and they've invested pretty heavily [21:16] in digital. And so I think that they're able to put their finger on the pulse of the Democratic base in a way that a lot of these other officials [21:26] who are completely absent from these online spaces are able to do. [21:31] You know, Newsom obviously has has a big digital ground game. [21:35] He has his own podcast. AOC has done, you know, gets more attention on Instagram Live than I think the rest of her caucus gets combined. [21:43] So I think, you know, there is there is a it does lend itself to this idea that when you have folks who are more tapped into what the base is saying, those people have a better handle on the fight that we need moving forward. [21:58] Yeah, I think they're not only they have their finger on the pulse of what the base is feeling. [22:02] They get that direct feedback. But I think they also are good at telling the story of what did I get done for you? [22:07] It's not enough for me to just release the letter and keep saying, like, I'm fighting I'm against Trump. [22:12] I want to do this. I want to hope we can one day do that. [22:15] They actually are articulating like Zoran does this constantly. [22:19] It could be here's a video of me replacing basketball hoops in New York City or we sent out people who are filling potholes. [22:26] You have a visual understanding of what did this guy do last week? [22:30] You know, we just sent him an office. What is he actually accomplished? [22:33] And they tell that story through video and by directly connecting with people. [22:36] And man, there are still some Democrats who need to to figure that out, to hire the folks to help them do that. [22:43] Yeah, I think that's that's the perfect example. [22:46] I think it is not enough to get caught trying, which I guess brings back to the to the main thesis of the book. [22:52] It's not enough to get caught trying. It's not enough to notch symbolic victories. [22:56] We need people who are going to deliver. [22:58] Trump has shown that our institutions are not sacrosanct. [23:01] They're not. You can barrel through them again. [23:03] He's doing it for self enrichment. [23:05] He's doing it to build himself a ballroom and probably a triumphal arch. [23:10] He's doing it to replace the reflecting pool. [23:12] He's putting his face on banners on buildings all across Washington, D.C., putting his face on coins, signing his name on a currency. [23:19] So he's showing that none of these norms and traditions are being respected, but he's doing it for himself. [23:26] We can't allow these obstacles and barriers to stop us from actually delivering for people because they're paying attention and they see what's going on. [23:33] And in the same way that they in the same way they can see that Zohar Mamdani is filling one hundred and seventy five thousand potholes because they drive on those roads. [23:40] Americans can see whether we're getting stuff done or just pretending that we're there, for example, to protect the institutions of government instead of using the institutions of government to deliver for the people who elected them. [23:53] Brian Tyler Cohen, so, so good to talk to you. Congratulations again on your incredible book. [23:59] Everybody should go get it the day after this is basically required reading as we head into the midterms and beyond. [24:06] Thank you so much, Brian. [24:07] Thank you. I appreciate it.