MS NOW hosts react to CBS News' firing of Scott Pelley

[0:00] dramatic news from our colleagues across town at CBS News who have been going through the bottom [0:06] lands. CBS News is under a transformation that is driven by the president of the United States [0:13] by corporate interests that want federal approval for a big merger a big consolidation in the media [0:21] and news business in order to do that and maybe because they want to otherwise they have been [0:27] essentially bulldozing one of the great news organizations news brands in American history [0:35] CBS News the home of among other things 60 Minutes the most successful American news program ever the [0:44] veteran correspondent at 60 Minutes Scott Pally the most recognizable person on 60 Minutes the former [0:52] host of CBS's network news show and one of the most respected journalists in America Scott Pally [1:00] has been fired by CBS News tonight after a widely reported staff meeting confrontation with the [1:07] new leadership that was brought in essentially from the classified ads to come run 60 Minutes Scott [1:15] Pally confronting that new leadership about the changes that have happened at CBS News under the [1:21] new leadership under the new management the sort of oligarchic takeover of that news organization [1:25] and now the news tonight that he has been fired Scott Pally has put out a statement tonight just in [1:32] the last few minutes in response to being fired I would read it to you but listen to me I sound like I've [1:38] been gargling with steel wool luckily Jen Psaki is here and it's going to be your spokesperson sort of [1:44] this is incredibly powerful we were just talking during the break about everybody needs to hear every [1:49] word so I'm just going to read every single word so that the audience hears it it starts this way [1:53] there's never been anything in America like 60 Minutes the Sunday tradition is the most successful [1:58] program of any kind in history for more than a decade its innovative growth on every major online [2:04] platform has extended its reach to countless millions around the world this spring at the end [2:08] of our 58th season 60 Minutes grew rapidly with an unheard of 9% jump in viewers on CBS 60 has been the number [2:16] one program in America for decades because our beloved audience finds integrity quality and [2:22] humanity in our stories when stewardship of the program passed to my colleagues and me our [2:27] responsibility was to expand energetically into a new age of media technology while preserving the [2:32] values our audience expects now the new owner of our network is casting this legend aside apparently [2:38] to curry a moment of favor with the Trump administration the waste is heartbreaking last month 60 Minutes [2:45] lost its DNA when our entire senior leadership and two of our best on-air correspondents were cruelly fired [2:51] without cause good people were silenced because they stood up for our audience they stood for fairness [2:57] against the forces of political bias they stood for professionalism against chaos for my part new management has [3:03] instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story wow I've been told these are just [3:12] incredible words to hear Scott Pelley yeah just read that for my part new management has instructed me to inject [3:18] falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story this is similar to what Cecilia Vega also had in her [3:24] statement just last week he goes on to say I've been told to include assertions that are unverified wow to date in [3:31] every case I've managed to ignore these instructions or refuse them recently politicians have been invited to choose [3:37] correspondents for interviews on the broadcast giving politicians control over 60 Minutes interviews is not how [3:43] this is done finally incompetence and unprofessionalism in the new management have wreaked havoc in a case involving [3:49] one of my stories the entire program came within 19 minutes of not getting on the air at all wow this is 60 Minutes I mean 9 million [3:58] people I believe were watching as of last and a financial powerhouse a financial powerhouse at 60 Minutes we have fought harder than anyone knows to save the program that became an American icon we owed that to our millions of viewers I am deeply moved by the thousands of wishes we have received to keep up the good fight most of the men and women of CBS news are still in that fight but now the collapse of values at the top has become untenable the leadership of 60 Minutes is no longer recognizable the principles I hold dear are gone and [4:28] and so I must leave as well I depart after 37 years at CBS with one emotion a heart brimming with gratitude for the men and women at CBS of CBS news who encouraged and enrich my work very often at the risk of their own lives I pray for a day when those people and their ideals are honored again a day when sanity competence and courage return [4:48] wow how does the rest of CBS news come to work how does the rest of 60 Minutes come to work and how do the correspondents who are still there feel and how do the people who are doing this look themselves in the mirror [5:05] fine let me be clear [5:07] we talked about this during the break I would liken this this is the equivalent [5:12] this is they're dozing CBS right Elon Musk came into the government not understanding how the government worked and bulldozed it realized after mistakes this and just left a wasteland [5:25] hated what he hated hated the government he was tearing apart and there was no evidence that they wanted to rebuild it that's what we're witnessing here [5:35] yeah I mean there's also this question that that you encounter time and time again in this era in a variety of contexts and institutions which is when to stay and when to go [5:47] and what do you do with like if you work the Department of Justice right and you're a civil servant who believes in upholding the law [5:54] how long can you hold on at the Department of Justice in the Trump administration how long what what is the line when is the moment when you get the [6:02] thing from the boss that says go do this thing that's over the line and that that set of ethical decisions that people had to make under these intense context of pressure [6:13] get repeated over and over and over across the institutions that the current administration is trying to destroy [6:19] can I just make an argument though whenever we look at those organizations and say how could people say why aren't they quitting and we've said this about [6:25] newspapers and television these are people's jobs no these are their line no and I mean it I I'm not but I'm not saying I'm not saying how could be I'm saying no I'm saying there are people right now watching this program who work in the Department of Justice who are like good people with great values who believe in justice there are people who are watching this program right now who work in the FBI or in the intelligence one of the 18 intelligence agencies that are apparently going to get helmed by Bill Pulte I mean I mean across the board there are folks that are embedded in institution [6:55] institutions that are attempting to that that that that that sort of nefarious forces of corruption are trying to co-opt or destroy and have to make evaluations about how they are going to I will say one piece of that is when you do decide you have to go the one I mean I don't envy anybody got to do it that way you have to do it that way you got to do it that way say why you yes and you have to say what you saw whether you were pushed out or whether you left on your own terms if it is time to go the the I can tell you categorically yes the patriotic thing to do [7:25] is to tell you here here here is the the thing that I'm focusing on when I look at the CBS story Scott Pelley is as you describe just this figure in this in this in this time but there's a new generation of journalists who are coming out of journalism schools and that are coming out of local broadcast and media situations looking to begin this trek and what struck me in every [7:56] everything that Scott Pelley said was this new management has instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story I've been told to include assertions that are unverified if you are a 27 year old newly minted journalist who's starting that track this is what's so dangerous and corruption corruptive and so poisonous about this administration and what they've been doing is that they're not they're not worried [8:26] but they want to transform terraform the future and in this space in the media space if I got a young kid and I'm telling him now you're gonna put this in paragraph 27 [8:39] last week last Wednesday was the Emmys and at the Emmys and we saw 60 Minutes win multiple Emmys a young man was given the Mike Wallace award right he works CBS gave him this award and he got up there he's not older than 25 years old [8:56] right and he spoke out against this organization that is now being controlled by corporate interest and standing in the way of the truth so I hear exactly what you're saying but it also gives me such faith when you watch these extraordinary young people right this this yeah no that's that but that's exactly the point I'm getting to how do how do they respond and if if he's the example of that response then what you just said Rachel about that moment when you have to come to truth with yourself [9:26] I was just going to say I was just going to say I want to call some preemptive BS on what we're going to hear from the right which is that you know anybody that Scott Pelley that Cecilia Vega are products of the left that they are defending Democrats and I'm just going to say I worked for two Democratic presidents who were interviewed by them I was grilled by some of them every single day I had no idea what their politics were [9:57] that they didn't think that they didn't think should be happening in government that's who they were so anybody who calls that out is that is total BS and I can tell you from experience yeah and I would also say that Scott Pelley if you're watching come work for us I actually don't have the power to hire [10:14] but if MS takes a vote we all vote yes Mark if Trump 2.0 can be summed up at this point by any one thing it is the fight over who owns the truth whether hard questions will be allowed whether Donald Trump Elon Musk Fox News Paramount and other Trump allies and assets will be permitted to squash the truth and dissent top to bottom [10:44] or curtain number two whether the first amendment and journalistic freedom will be allowed to survive during this administration yesterday Donald Trump's allies at Paramount and CBS made it clear that their commitment to quelling dissent and knocking out some of those truth tellers is very much underway even if they have to destroy one of that networks one of television's most storied and valuable assets in the process of doing that [11:15] veteran 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley has been fired that happened after he clashed with Barry Weiss's hand-picked brand new executive producer of 60 Minutes a guy named Nick Bilton in a staff meeting earlier this week [11:29] they clashed after Pelley pressed Bilton about the firing of several of his colleagues and the quashing of stories that were unflattering to the Trump administration [11:39] in the statement Scott Pelley said this quote the waste is heartbreaking last month 60 Minutes lost its DNA [11:45] when our entire senior leadership and two of our best on-air correspondents were cruelly fired without cause good people were silenced because they stood up for our audience [11:56] they stood for fairness against the forces of political bias they stood for professionalism against chaos [12:03] from my part new management has instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story [12:11] I've been told to include assertions that are unverified to date in every case I have managed to ignore these instructions or refuse them [12:20] recently politicians have been invited to choose correspondence for interviews on the broadcast giving politicians control over 60 Minutes interviews is not how this is done [12:31] finally incompetence and unprofessionalism in the new management have wreaked havoc in a case involving one of my stories the entire program came within 19 minutes of not getting on the air at all [12:45] the collapse of values at the top has become untenable the leadership of 60 Minutes is no longer recognizable the principles I hold dear are gone and so I must leave as well [12:59] I depart after 37 years at CBS with one emotion a heart brimming with gratitude for the men and women of CBS news who encouraged and enriched my work very often at the risk of their own lives [13:12] I pray for a day when those people and their ideals are honored again a day when sanity competence and courage return according to a recording of that staff meeting in question held earlier today obtained by multiple outlets including the New York Times [13:30] embattled CBS News editor-in-chief Barry Weiss said this about Scott Pelley's dismissal quote I'm only interested in working in a newsroom that's built on trust and mutual respect we cannot do our work without it [13:42] that foundation was broken Monday it's an assertion Pelley pushes back on forcefully adding this in a statement quote Barry Weiss knows what she said is not true [13:53] in the meeting Tuesday in which I was effectively fired there was no effort of any kind to quote find a way back as Barry Weiss said in the editorial meeting [14:02] at no point did anyone in the Tuesday meeting suggest that there could be steps taken by either side that would lead to a resolution [14:10] Barry Weiss and president and executive editor of CBS news Tom Sobrowski were openly hostile from the start [14:18] firing was raised by Tom Sobrowski in the first 15 seconds no CBS executive at any time suggested a way back to say so now is disingenuous and they know it [14:32] Scott Pelley joins a legion of other respected dare I say revered journalists who have been silenced reprimanded or fired for doing what journalists do asking hard questions [14:46] many of whom have now spoken up on his behalf including his former colleague Sharon Alfonsi who was also fired from 60 minutes she writes this quote he was fired for asking questions which is the job if you need one sentence that tells you exactly what CBS news has become under Barry Weiss [15:04] that is it journalists who ask questions are being systematically replaced by people who won't and that's not a side effect of what's happening at 60 minutes [15:14] it's the goal CNN anchor Don Lemon who was arrested and has faced federal civil rights charges after filming anti-ice protests in Minnesota posted this video on social media [15:27] Scott Pelley is not wrong he is telling the truth so if the management of CBS's goals are to ruin the news franchise and to put 60 minutes out of business or for it to lose their credibility they're doing a very good job at it [15:45] former CNN White House correspondent Jim Acosta who frequently clashed with Donald Trump posted this warning watch that [15:54] what the Ellisons and Barry Weiss are doing to CBS is unconscionable it's unforgivable [16:03] and as I've said many times when 60 minutes is in trouble we are all in trouble and we are [16:09] those five alarm warnings about the current fight over the First Amendment and journalistic freedom and truth [16:16] and just how much we all stand to lose if this fight is lost is where we start today [16:22] I want to bring in those two now independent journalist long-time CNN correspondent and anchor Jim Acosta who now hosts the Jim Acosta show on Substack is here [16:31] and joining me at the table Don Lemon also a long-time CNN anchor he's now the host of the Don Lemon show [16:36] which he streams live twice a day on YouTube he's also written about his experience leaving network news in his book I once was lost which is fantastic and must read I have to say I'm nervous I'm such a fan of both of yours [16:49] I never miss anything either of you say and in this moment I turned to what I went looking for what you both had to say when this news broke and I wonder if you can just speak out about what the new sort of where the new trust paradigm is in journalism [17:08] well I I must say that when something like this happens it it triggers there's a trigger there all over again when I write about in the book the day it happened to me because [17:19] well as you were reading Scott Pelley's story it's so similar to my story and so I would imagine even people who didn't end up you know having to leave a network or pushed out or whatever it is just journalists [17:29] journalists in general are triggered by this producers writers and I think about all the people who are over at CBS now who are still fighting the good fight there are hundreds of them over there and they are committed to making 60 Minutes continue to be the the the news program that it is and that it deserves to be however I hate to be a fatalist but I think it's a fate of complete [17:52] I don't think I don't think that the management of CBS cares at this point so where's the trust where's the fidelity I think the trust and the fidelity is toward and at least in this situation and many others and some maybe in my own it's toward the corporation not necessarily towards the journalist or journalism I think that people pushing a news organization in a certain political ideological direction is anathema to journalists to true journalists it may be good they think for the corporation it's not it never works [18:21] it never works if you say where we think your network is liberal so we need to move it to the right you're not going to get that people who watch Fox News are not going to tune into MSNBC or CNN the way that they tune into Fox News this is never going to happen and then you lose your core audience and then where are you the ratings are actually worse the thing about blowing up 60 Minutes so for no reason other than it would appear this political project 9% growth that's unheard of and a digital digital supernova yeah why are you you should [18:51] be protecting that in a glass box that's saying do not touch now if they want to touch something then they should go and try to fix the CBS evening news or perhaps fix the CBS mornings but 60 Minutes is the tentpole and right now they're chipping away at that tentpole and the tent is sagging [19:06] Jim I want to ask you I mean Scott Pelley went into a meeting and did what I think most journalists are hardwired to do sort of protected his team members on the field right stuck up for Sharon Alfonsi and Cecilia Vega and two producers who have been fired one of whom he asserts had to go to HR to be fired what what do you think the message is that they're clearly trying to send I think the message that the people [19:34] at CBS are sending people at CBS are sending people like Barry Weiss is be afraid we are in control we are in charge and as Don was saying make no mistake they don't care about the ratings they don't care about making money this is an ideological and partisan political project on the part of the Ellisons the Trump friendly Ellisons who now control Paramount who by the way are trying to take control of WBD and CNN and turn it into this giant media conglomerate [20:02] that will essentially act like a state media organization in support of Donald Trump and I think the the folks at CBS people like Barry Weiss and so on they need to look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves the question is what I'm doing good for America is what I'm doing good for democracy is what I'm doing good for the free press and I think the answer is unquestionably no and when Scott Pelley Scott Pelley is saying that the people at CBS are telling him to [20:32] to inject political bias and falsehoods into his reporting that should be a hair on fire moment for all Americans and Don and I we have felt these pressures and you know this is a very serious moment in this country right now the American people need to be aware of what's taking place Donald Trump he's gone after Stephen Colbert he's trying to go after Jimmy Kimmel [21:03] the system in the system in this country and it has to be stopped the irony in all this is agenda mention I forgot Barry Weiss that she had she owned it you know a journalistic [21:13] outlet called the free press right when you think about what is that the irony in that but look I think that Jim is right in this moment this is a very dangerous moment and not only do I feel the the folks who are in charge the management the people in the C [21:32] the owners um it's their fault but I also think that it's I I think um Scott Pelley is an example to all journalists and if you are in that position in a way I you know if I was still there I might feel a bit embarrassed that I have not that I had not stood up uh and I understand that people have obligations you know you've got mortgages you've got all of those things but I look at journalism uh in a very similar way as I do an attorney do no harm a doctor do no harm [22:02] I don't believe that you know if I'm not that's something that goes against journalistic principles I don't believe that you should follow it yeah and and that's what's happening in this moment and it's you know the people who are standing up are the people who have the least power I believe in this moment maybe in an odd way we have a power that we don't really understand but a lot of our corporate friends are not standing up and here you have Jim Acosta and me and others who are in independent media and we are fighting the fight without the big corporation without the big attorneys without the all the money that goes along with it [22:32] I don't believe in these independent streets fighting it and you know people who have much more agency and influence in this are not standing up so journalists stand up if you're in a position and they're telling you to do something that like Scott Pelley said they were telling him to do to insert things that don't do it yeah just and tell them right Scott Pelley will land frankly I hope he lands right here yeah I hope he stays on I hope he's on TV tomorrow um and I hope that everybody in journalism and everybody who values a free press [23:04] figures out ways to outmaneuver the people who are trying to take the free press from us our colleague Rachel Maddow speaking frankly for many and her reaction to what was breaking news last night a long time 30 30 plus year veteran of CBS news in 60 minutes in the anchor chair Scott Pelley out CBS firing him over what he says was standing up for journalism against bias and politicizing their work what 60 minutes becomes is in a sense a question tonight there's a question about whether the owners of [23:36] this new CBS company which is making larger mergers are allied with MAGA and putting a thumb on the scale or whether this is also part of a larger effort to curry favor with the Trump administration which oversees the big business tech merger Pelley who is as credible as they come when you look at his long tenure of independent reporting including from war zones and multiple administrations says CBS news management instructed him to inject falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story he calls out what he [24:07] views as incompetent and unprofessionalism in the new management that wreaked havoc describing scenarios that were completely avoidable according to him that put stories in danger going up to airtime he has a lot of experience here to launch these critiques and he says it's all to curry favor with the Trump administration MS now has requested CBS comment on those accusations we haven't specifically heard back although some of their officials have spoken out publicly [24:38] a big big and rare inflection point in already a long running battle over CBS news independence and whether freedom of speech or Colbert style criticism of the current government would be allowed for long on that platform Pelley also criticized the CBS news boss Barry Weiss there was a staff meeting where Pelley confronted the new executive producer about Weiss [25:09] said that she was trying to murder 60 minutes she does not love this place he said that was in response to a back and forth she was brought in to kill it and she's been doing exactly that now there are reports that Weiss was telling staff that Pelley was violating trust and mutual respect and for her part she and others say that they tried to reach out to him including before that tense meeting I just mentioned for a one-on-one discussion that there was a back and forth and clearly [25:40] what Pelley thinks go beyond communication and to the heart of how that news division is being gutted I don't have to tell you if you're watching this news channel you've probably seen news over the past decades Pelley is someone who reported from war zones who faced politicians and presidents who cover the White House and most recently as well the war in Ukraine how would you say your mental focus is oh it's focused I think it's I haven't look [26:13] Behind me you can see what's left of one of the 110 story twin towers how do you dig this up piece by piece [26:20] Tonight we have details of a classified U.S. intelligence mission that has obtained a previously unknown weapon everything America is trying to accomplish in Afghanistan is represented in these four tents [26:35] How do you measure success we sat down with Zelensky in his hometown it had been a week since Russia killed nine children on a playground [26:46] As a viewer I've never spent any time with Scott Pelley I've watched him as a journalist I can echo what Rachel and plenty of other journalists have said which is this is really one of the long-term gold standards of what a TV journalist can be in that independence whether you saw him there pressing [27:04] Then President Biden on one of his perceived vulnerabilities or going to war zones as I mentioned or just calling it free and fair and 60 minutes relied on Pelley [27:14] Over the years they've had different stars, but he was currently one of their most prominent [27:19] So it means something when he says after trying to work with this new management for months that it has become untenable [27:24] And that he has specific concerns examples of what he calls their bias and effort to promote falsehoods at that institution [27:32] Now there is another version of this story [27:34] You'll hear which is that some of the broadcast media has fallen behind has lost a step [27:39] And needs to be modernized and that that itself is not illicit [27:42] Well, that's true as far as it goes if you watch this program we've reported on the shifts in digital media a ton [27:48] But 60 minutes didn't need some sudden overhaul to reach the public [27:54] It was a commercial success indeed paramount which is the parent company recently noted how 60 minutes made history by marking 52 [28:02] Straight seasons as America's number one news program with as many as 10 million people watching variety reports [28:08] When you look at those Nielsen ratings, there were weeks where the top thing watched in all categories would be football in 60 minutes [28:16] It was number one in news and rivaled some of the other most profitable things on the air [28:20] And yet lately these accusations of bias were mounting [28:25] One correspondent said there was a quote political discussion by the bosses to try to shape and delay an immigration report that might have upset Trump officials [28:34] Another 60 minutes correspondent said quote my producing teams and I have experienced efforts to insert political bias into our stories [28:42] CBS has repeatedly denied those accusations during this period [28:46] The wider context is david ellison who is part of that ellison family that we've mentioned that has been buying up media [28:53] paramount [28:54] Is the company involved here and the wider thing that goes beyond just news is [28:59] That they need the trump administration's approval for that huge warner merger with so much money on the line [29:06] Broader than cbs news you have a trump administration that has gone farther than any other u.s. Government [29:13] To target and sue and intimidate and sometimes use executive orders and other powers and even indict Don Lemon [29:19] Reminding you of just some of what they're doing here [29:22] Including these lawsuits. This is the environment. We're in and if you needed an inflection point [29:28] Beyond Colbert beyond the lawsuits [29:33] Beyond this or that reporter telling you they're doing it again [29:37] Someone like pelly saying out in the open at the risk of his career and whatever money was left on his contract and everything else saying out in the open [29:46] They are doing this for the trump government. What they're doing is false. What they're doing is wrong. That's your inflection point [29:52] We're joined by ken aletta renowned journalist author writer for the new yorker [29:56] Uh, he's written many national bestsellers. You see here [29:59] Often looking at the intersection of media and its role in society, which is why we thought of you tonight. Welcome. Thanks, harry [30:08] What does this mean? [30:12] Uh for 60 minutes and cbs news [30:14] How rare is it to see this spill out the way it's happening over the last 48 hours? [30:19] Well, you know you look at at the history of mergers take time warner when aol acquired it and aol comes in [30:26] They say you guys are suck that you're you're luddites, you know this at all and alienates all the time [30:33] Warned people something similar has happened right here [30:37] But the people from paramount are coming in harry weiss coming in and saying you guys suck [30:43] You're luddites. We have to make changes now [30:45] You do have to you said this earlier in the introduction. They do have to make changes. The audience is aging [30:52] Uh at 60 minutes and at all of newscasts and and the audience is declining as more choices [30:58] proliferate [30:58] So you have to try and upgrade [31:01] 60 minutes and news [31:03] But you don't come in and say you guys suck [31:06] And and and insult people and and summarily fire them which is what they've done. So they've created a [31:14] Place at cbs news where people aren't happy and they're going to leave and they won't work as hard [31:20] They don't have to trust that you need when companies merge and by the way, it's not just cbs [31:25] They're if they if they get trump's approval. They're going to take over cnn, too [31:30] And how does that radiate out to cnn? So it's really a [31:36] Huge problem. They've really mishandled this. Yeah, you say the new owners have mishandled it [31:42] I mentioned to viewers who probably know that mr [31:44] Pelly is pretty serious [31:47] When it comes to the life and career he's led on behalf of independent journalism [31:51] So him saying this doesn't read to me. What do you think as just another employment dispute? [31:58] It's not another employment issue [32:00] You know, one of the things I mean if as a watcher of your show where you talk about republican senators [32:06] And members of congress who don't speak up and here's scott pelly speaking up and daring to speak up [32:12] Putting his job on the line to speak up and speak what he sees as as the truth [32:17] And so he deserves a lot of credit for his courage to do that and to risk his career which he's done now [32:24] It it i'm sure he is communicated. He is [32:28] Misunderstood certain things that these people they don't want to destroy 60 minutes. They don't destroy cbs news [32:34] But nevertheless the message that they've conveyed is one of destruction [32:39] And scott pelly is is standing up for the people he's worked with for years and the admires and and [32:46] He's gone and and several other correspondents are gone [32:49] The long-time executive producer 60 minutes was summarily fired as was her deputy [32:55] So it's it [32:57] This radiates out in a very negative way. Yeah, it seems the maga owners want the [33:03] Power and reach of 60 minutes [33:06] The audience and the credibility [33:08] Uh, but according to so many people who built that [33:11] Uh, these maga owners don't want to do the hard work the compromise and the independence of that [33:16] And so they're they're running into that. It's one thing to say. Oh, um, you know, let's let's [33:21] Widen our story selection or let's do more stories about rural america or the things you sometimes hear and you go [33:25] Okay, go let the 60 minutes people do it that way [33:28] Uh, that's not it [33:30] We're hearing about and I want to put up on the screen that we have some [33:33] Evidence here and they cannot answer it [33:35] But this is the evidence from again a very credible source and mr. Pelley [33:38] He says they instructed him the new management to inject [33:42] Falsehoods and bias into the reporting [33:46] He says that politicians have now been invited to choose the correspondence for interviews [33:51] Basically handing the government a kind of [33:54] Oversight role and then of course picking perhaps their favorites [33:57] Uh, he describes how incompetence and unprofessionalism wreaked havoc in one of his stories [34:02] He says quote the entire program came within 19 minutes of not getting on the air at all [34:06] That point, uh, as you'll understand ken and and and many other people won't know all the details is [34:12] You know folks watch the show they said [34:14] ari pulls up around six talk to some people and leave [34:18] Hey, if that's what it looks like great. In fact, anyone who's worked in the in the in the challenge of tv news knows [34:24] There's a huge team most of them aren't visible on air and they do a lot of work [34:28] And if you want to have an editorial discussion about changing a story [34:31] On a magazine style weekly show like 60 minutes and you're at all competent ken [34:36] Uh you do that with advanced time in the proper way and he is suggesting and there's been other independent reporting on this [34:43] That these new executives don't even know how to put a show together and then he adds on top of that [34:48] They want him to put a show out that he said was false and he resisted [34:51] We have to applaud scott pelly for what he did because we all know at this table we all know and i'm not gonna call them out [35:00] We all know a bunch of journalists and they're not at this network. They're at other networks [35:04] That could be that should be scott pelly's right now, but they're not [35:09] They're biding their time while the first amendment is under a systematic assault. This administration is arresting journalists [35:16] This administration is raiding the homes of journalists. This administration is taking over the networks [35:22] They look they work at because they want to fire the ones that they don't like this administration is [35:26] Kicking them off of air force one is kicking them out of the pentagon is taking over the social media networks and censoring the terms that people type in [35:35] This is insane [35:37] This is an apocalyptic moment for journalism in this country and people got to act like it and scott pelly this week [35:45] He acted like it, but this is a message to all those other journalists [35:48] They know who they are [35:49] They know when they hear my voice that they're probably one of them the ones that are cowering and hoping that they can feed the alligator [35:55] And it will go back to normal it ain't going back to normal unless you all start acting like scott pelly [36:00] I think you're getting it exactly right there miles teller. This is a moment where there are lots of villains [36:05] And there aren't many heroes and so when we see a hero when we see a profile in courage [36:10] We have to take that moment to applaud folks i'm struck by the fact that this to me has echoes of a conversation [36:17] You've been having with the two of us for the past two years [36:19] Which is if you want to understand what trump and his acolytes are up to look at victor orban [36:25] He is just playing his playbook and one of the things that you warned us about [36:29] Many times over the past two years was the fact that a big part of [36:33] Dismantling democracy and institutions was going to be going after a fair and free press in the case of orban [36:41] They did that in part by making sure that his allies had control of media institutions and media apparatus [36:49] So that they could turn what was once news and information into propaganda in your set in your sort of global sense [36:57] Where are we in that timeline? [36:59] Unfortunately, we're in an earlier part of the timeline because there's a lot more things that can happen [37:06] Here's what year one was about year one of the second trump administration was about putting the infrastructure in place [37:13] If you're going to produce a product you got to build a machine to make it replicable and it takes a while to build the machine [37:18] They built the machine in year one. They're turning it on in year two [37:22] But let me give you something concrete there after the president came after me when he came back into office [37:27] A little known thing happened in the attorney general's office [37:30] She signed an order revoking protections for journalists the justice department used to have a very high standard [37:36] If you were going to investigate journalists because you were going at the only constitutionally protected profession in the united states journalism, right? [37:44] So it required higher approval [37:45] She rescinded those protections and in her memo. She cited the president's investigation into me in other words to go after the president's enemies [37:54] We can't be protecting journalists and these people that whistleblowers go talk to [37:58] We got to be able to dig into those whistleblowers files that happened in year one [38:02] It got almost no news coverage here. It got some news coverage. Well now it's happening [38:07] The machines turned on they are raiding those journalists houses. They are opening investigations [38:12] And when you see one or two ants on top of a log, there's a hell of a lot of ants under the log [38:17] What we don't know is what we don't know how many other investigations do they have into how many other networks and the way you combat it? [38:23] If you want to learn from orban and hungary, you gotta have more scott pellys speaking out [38:28] So i'm talking to my friends at cnn because they're trying to feed the alligator the alligators taking over your boat [38:34] There's a bunch of would-be scott pellys at other networks that should take this moment to do the right thing and speak loudly [38:42] It it's so profoundly important. Um as uh [38:48] Everyone at this table has noted, uh what this moment means and how it's how it's playing out [38:52] I and I thought it was very telling because the the the thread [38:57] That's going to wind us or move us into the future was really in in pelly's statement as well [39:05] Simone touched on it a moment ago, uh, and when he talked about, um, you know [39:11] Politicizing the politicization of stories [39:13] He noted new management has instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias in a politic into a politically sensitive story [39:21] I've been told to include assertions that are unverified to date in every case [39:26] I've managed to ignore these instructions or refuse them recently [39:30] Politicians have been invited to choose correspondence for interviews on the broadcast [39:35] Giving politicians control over 60 minutes and 60 minute interviews is not how this is done [39:42] That's the future that they're setting up and and it's very very important [39:47] You know that we understand that now, you know ms now has reached out [39:51] Uh to cbs about pelly's accusations and they've declined to comment [39:56] I would think you'd want to but okay. That's their prerogative [40:00] But that's the problem right is that these things are happening [40:04] And no one is clarifying their intent [40:08] So if pelly is lying if pelly is wrong [40:13] As management i'm gonna be out there. No, no, no, no y'all don't understand timeout. This is what here [40:19] Here's the minutes from the meeting right because because of the institution that you are [40:28] You're you are a broadcast network. You are a a mega publication [40:34] You know a grand newspaper that everyone over time has come to respect [40:38] So how do how do we look at this? [40:42] Beyond this because this is where the threat is going the threat is going to where journalists will decide which reporters they want to talk to [40:51] And they'll do that interview that is really good and cushy and nice and no hard questions are asked about the behavior [40:56] of that of that [40:58] Politician or the programs that they're doing well, we're headed towards state media. I mean, it's [41:04] Far from [41:06] Hyperbole at this point it is the reality we are living in this administration last year started signaling [41:12] They were willing to use regulatory powers [41:16] The legal powers of the government to help decide who took over some of these big networks like cbs [41:23] Like you know, cnn and its parent company by saying the president of the united states like some people on these networks [41:31] He doesn't like other people and we'll open antitrust investigations [41:35] And we'll tip the scales if we have to that's what happened in hungary [41:39] That's how we ended up with a country where most of the major news networks were saying what the administration [41:45] Wanted them to say the biggest scandals that have been exposed in the history of the united states [41:50] Would not have been exposed if we didn't have a free press people wouldn't know what was happening [41:55] That's why this matters folks. I don't care if you're a democrat or a republican or independent [41:59] This matters and if you are a republican and if you are a maga supporting republican you should hate this just as much [42:05] Because in two and a half years you don't want the democrats to come in and wield this power and have their billionaire buddies [42:10] Take over networks and control the news that you watch and what people are interviewing the public officials [42:15] You don't want that americans need to be united the first amendment doesn't just belong to some people it belongs to all the people