MS NOW Highlights - July 1

[0:01] Sometimes intelligence is good, and sometimes you look at Comey and you look at Brennan and you look at Clapper, and I'm supposed to believe that intelligence? I never believe that intelligence. [0:11] You look at Brennan and you look at Clapper, and you get some real beauties. [0:16] Well, I think Brennan's a sick person. [0:18] How involved was John Brennan? [0:20] Totally involved. He was totally involved. John Brennan was one of the architects, in my opinion. [0:28] Hi again, everybody. It's now 5 o'clock in the East. Suffice to say, he has been obsessed for years now. [0:33] Trump has been attacking and criticizing former director of the CIA, John Brennan, for years. [0:40] Going after him seems to be one of Trump's greatest obsessions. [0:44] But these are not just hollow sneers and complaints. [0:48] Trump has weaponized the government he now leads to go after his perceived opponent. [0:54] Today marks a significant development in that story. [0:57] Director Brennan is today going on the offense. [0:59] But first, a quick refresher. [1:01] Director Brennan, following decades of public service in the CIA, served as the agency's director from 2013 to 2017, during those years under President Barack Obama. [1:13] The director became a target of Donald Trump's, ostensibly for his role in the intelligence assessment that stated that Russia interfered in the 2016 election with the aim of helping Donald Trump win. [1:26] Since then, Donald Trump has railed against John Brennan, as well as others involved in that assessment. [1:33] He has revoked John Brennan's security clearance. [1:36] And two investigations have been launched into the former director of the CIA. [1:41] One is over allegations that Director Brennan lied to Congress in 2023 about the intelligence assessment. [1:47] It was a referral from the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Trump ally Jim Jordan. [1:53] The other is a case that Brennan is part of some sort of grand conspiracy that Caroline Levitt has talked about from the podium of the White House briefing room to keep Trump out of office. [2:06] Brennan has denied any wrongdoing in both cases. [2:09] Today, Director Brennan, who is an MSNOW senior national security and intelligence analyst, is joining us for an exclusive interview to discuss his latest move, which is to sue Donald Trump and the Justice Department. [2:23] Director Brennan has asked a judge to force DOJ to preserve all of its records. [2:27] Administration officials from the acting attorney general to the FBI director and the counselor overseeing the Brennan investigations have been publicly declaring Director Brennan a criminal, not only before securing a conviction in court, but even before a full investigation and indictment. [2:46] And certain officials in the Department of Justice are engaging in demonstrably irregular prosecutorial activity in order to gin up a case that will satisfy the president's direction. [2:58] Director Brennan expects that he will forcefully challenge any eventual eventual indictment as a product of an unconstitutionally vindictive and selective prosecution. [3:08] Given the government's questionable recent history with respect to its record preservation and other legal obligations, however, Director Brennan has a well-founded concern that those records and communications will not be preserved until such time as the court can review them for evidence of unconstitutional vindictiveness. [3:27] About Brennan's lawsuit, the New York Times writes this, quote, the request for a judicial order requiring officials to keep records about a case that has not even been filed was somewhat unusual, and yet it reflected just how abnormal Trump's revenge campaign has become in recent months. [3:46] As the president's attempts to use the courts to go after his adversaries have become more aggressive, so too have the reciprocal efforts by defense lawyers who have sought to fight the inquiries at every at ever earlier stages of the investigative process. [4:02] Firing back at Donald Trump's revenge campaign is where we begin this hour with former Director of the CIA, John Brennan. [4:08] Thank you for being here and having this conversation with us. [4:11] Absolutely, Nicole. Thanks for having me on. [4:13] So, what made you sort of take a different legal strategy? [4:22] Because the facts have always been the same, and I just want to ask you to go over the facts of the smears and the alleged investigations into you, as they've been unearthed by Trump ally John Durham, by Marco Rubio, who was the senator in charge of the Intelligence Committee, when it comes to that 2016 intelligence assessment. [4:42] Well, Nicole, clearly I didn't come to the decision to launch this lawsuit against the Trump administration, President Trump, and the Department of Justice lightly. [4:52] But as you and I have talked numerous times over the past 18 months, Donald Trump has been engaged in this campaign to punish individuals he considers his enemies. [5:01] And I am being targeted by Donald Trump because I fulfilled my obligations in 2016 as Director of the CIA to expose Russian interference in that presidential election of that year. [5:15] And there was an intelligence community assessment that was put out by the FBI, CIA, NSA, and the Office of Director of National Intelligence that chronicled exactly what Vladimir Putin and the Russians were doing. [5:26] Well, obviously, Donald Trump didn't like that. But also, he has condemned me because I have spoken out publicly since I left office when I see that things that Donald Trump is doing are wrongheaded or that are just reflecting, I think, the incompetence as well as the corruption of his administration. [5:43] So, clearly, over these last 18 months, it's not just me, it's not just me, it's other individuals as well. [5:49] It's Jerome Powell, it's Jim Comey, it's others, Letitia James, who have also been targeted. [5:56] And most egregiously, he's not just condemning us publicly with his rhetoric, he is leveraging the tremendous authorities of the Department of Justice in very corrupt, unethical, and I would argue illegal ways, [6:09] to use those authorities to launch these investigations against individuals. [6:14] Now, there are two grand jury investigations underway in the Southern District of Florida where I have been subpoenaed. [6:20] I have complied completely with the requests from the government, despite the speciousness of these investigations and the lack of any evidence indicating any wrongdoing on my part. [6:30] But I have come to believe, in talking to my lawyers, that we can't trust the Department of Justice to carry out its duties in the manner that it has done over the past centuries, [6:42] in terms of a presumption of regularity, that the courts will give the Department of Justice and U.S. government the presumption that it is carrying out its obligations responsibly and with integrity. [6:53] But it has not, in terms of forum shopping and judge shopping and, you know, having individuals and professional prosecutors who have resigned rather than pursue investigations that have no basis, in fact. [7:07] So if they're doing this, I also am concerned, and my lawyers are very concerned, that any type of records that might, in fact, expose what they are doing are not being kept. [7:17] They have, you know, openly, you know, decried or have condemned the obligations to fulfill their obligations under the Presidential Records Act. [7:27] They are using different apps to conceal their messaging, like signal apps. [7:32] Things are automatically deleted. [7:33] And this is in contravention of long-held requirements that the government is supposed to keep these records. [7:39] So, again, it looks as though, with the appointment of Joe DiGenova and continued investigations and, you know, the effort underway in Florida, [7:47] that there could be an indictment of me, despite whatever speciousness undercourges it. [7:53] And so we don't want to wait until that point. [7:55] And so this is a lawsuit that basically compels, is asking the court to compel the government to preserve all those records that they have within the Department of Justice, White House, other agencies, [8:07] that relate at all to the investigations into me, so that if, in fact, there is some effort here to circumvent the law and to abuse the authorities of the Justice Department, [8:19] it will be available to the court if, in fact, there is going to be this indictment. [8:24] Don't you already have a smoking gun in the things Donald Trump has said about you? [8:31] I mean, tell me what the records would prove, and is it that your lawyers will argue that, should you be indicted, it's all a vindictive prosecution? [8:44] Yes. [8:45] Well, as well known, in the Southern District of Florida, a very competent, respected professional prosecutor either stepped aside or was pushed aside [8:55] because she was not willing to go forward with an indictment or any type of effort to try to obtain an indictment from a grand jury. [9:02] And they said, reportedly, she said there's no evidence there to support such indictment. [9:07] And we also see that this has been shopped around, and the complaint makes clear, you know, in different districts, whether it be in Virginia or in Pennsylvania, [9:14] and it's clearly that there is not an appetite on the part of those Department of Justice employees who continue to adhere to their obligations. [9:23] But it's not stopped Donald Trump and the Department of Justice. [9:27] And so, again, the fact that this investigation is still ongoing, and there was just a recent, you know, press reporting about what DeGenova's team is doing [9:35] in terms of, you know, additional interviews and people are being interviewed. [9:39] And I'm not just doing this on behalf of myself. [9:41] Yes, I'm the sole target of these two investigations down in Florida, but I'm doing it on behalf of others who are being harassed [9:49] and who are being subjected to the same type of punishment and condemnation. [9:54] And we have to stand up against Donald Trump and the abuses of authority and the fact that the Department of Justice is being exploited in this way. [10:02] So what I'm trying to do is, you know, align myself with those universities, those law firms, those individuals who really are pushing back. [10:09] And I realize that this is going to, you know, irritate the Department of Justice or the Trump administration, but it's the right thing to do. [10:16] And I think in light of what's going on in this country and all the abuses of power and all the corruption that is going on, [10:22] people have to stand up because it's John Brennan today, but it's going to be, I think, many others tomorrow. [10:30] A judge in the case of, I think, Kilmer Arbrego Garcia found that it was essentially a crime declared and then reverse engineered by Todd Lynch specifically. [10:39] Are you, what are you seeking from Todd Blanche and the Department of Justice? [10:46] Well, again, what this, there's a complaint and then there's a preliminary motion for there to be an immediate sort of injunction [10:52] that will, again, compel the government, Department of Justice and other agencies that are noted in the complaint [10:58] to immediately preserve all records, all documents, emails, text messages, whatever else, [11:06] correspondence that might have gone back and forth between the Department of Justice Maine and down in the Southern District of Florida [11:10] to preserve all of those records because we're going to need them in the event that there is going to be some type of indictment or charges against me. [11:20] I really want the courts to know that this is an effort that has been cooked up, again, [11:26] as part of this punishment campaign that Donald Trump has engineered. [11:30] And the fact that you have individuals, unfortunately, his loyalists who are willing to go along with him, [11:36] I am just so glad that there are still individuals of integrity within the Department of Justice, [11:41] within the U.S. Attorney's officers, officers who are saying no. [11:44] You know, they're saying, no, we're not going to do this because it's inconsistent, again, [11:48] not only with their authorities, but also with American values. [11:52] Donald Trump has gotten all kinds of special benefits and exemptions from the Supreme Court, [11:57] but even he found that trying to rewrite the Constitution by himself was too much, [12:04] and he was dealt that big loss this week, the court upholding citizenship the way it's always been, [12:10] meaning he doesn't get to rewrite it or water down or change birthright citizenship. [12:14] And that has some conservatives who, if they follow the law at all, could have seen this coming, [12:19] but they're still upset. [12:23] The Supreme Court of the United States upheld birthright citizenship, and that is a legal abomination. [12:28] Chief Justice Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett siding with the liberal justices. [12:33] Justice Alito was furious. [12:36] I think we're used to getting betrayed by Roberts, but I mean, Barrett, she, like, I'm sick of Barrett. [12:42] I'm sick of this. [12:43] Are we banning pregnant women from America? [12:45] Are we banning foreign pregnant women? [12:48] You have to now think very carefully about who you let into your country, even on a temporary basis. [12:55] It's the legalization of an invasion of America. [12:58] This is all, at best, misinformed noise. [13:04] At worst, they're lying to you. [13:07] The Constitution says what it says, and conservatives have often held themselves out as the ideological view that you hew to that. [13:16] They call it originalism or textualism, and we are a country that defines citizenship by being here, so if you're born here, you're an American citizen. [13:24] You don't have to then do a loyalty test or prove your religion, race, or other things that in the old days and in some other countries they do, and people know that. [13:32] Everybody knows that, but Trump has demanded this kind of performance, and maybe some people, as I said, ultimately started to believe it. [13:39] I can't tell you what's in their minds. [13:41] I can just tell you that they are wrong on the law, which is why a coalition on the Supreme Court that includes Republican justices landed by saying, the court said, the Constitution says what it says. [13:53] Presidents don't get to just change it. [13:55] That's why we have a Constitution. [13:57] All of this fairly straightforward. [13:58] Meanwhile, one Republican went all the way into the famed references of the Statue of Liberty. [14:04] We got to put a bedsheet, a big bedsheet, over the Statue of Liberty. [14:14] Ten years. Ten-year moratorium on immigration. [14:17] She's going to go to sleep for a while. [14:18] She's got to go to sleep for a while because we're not letting anybody in anymore. [14:21] Some people think a bedsheet is dead. [14:22] We got to—I'm not saying it's dead. [14:24] What I'm trying to say is, is that instead of having a torch, maybe it needs a stop sign. [14:32] Yes, it's all metaphors, but putting the Statue of Liberty to sleep isn't something you usually hear from politicians in any party [14:37] because, you know, it's a symbol of America and what we stand for in our best days. [14:42] I will mention that the lawmaker is well within his policy arguments to say that there should be lower immigration or zero immigration. [14:51] A lot of American businesses oppose that because they want all kinds of skilled workers, technical workers, AI, smart people from around the world. [14:58] And a lot of other folks have arguments for immigration you're probably familiar with. [15:02] But yes, consistent with this ruling, the government could lower the amount of immigration they allow in any given year [15:08] or the amount of visas or citizenship applications they accept. [15:11] All this ruling is about is honoring the fact that our Constitution already says, [15:16] if you're born here, you're an American. [15:18] You don't get born here and then have to prove it. [15:20] The court ruling was, on one matter, relatively close. [15:25] It was within a single vote of actually going the other direction. [15:29] And that, again, remember, it says all persons born or naturalized in the U.S. [15:34] and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the U.S. [15:39] So the fact that there were four votes to go in a different direction despite the plain English there [15:44] shows you, as I mentioned in our initial coverage, that apparently there are now four Trump-friendly votes [15:49] who will say up is down or rewrite the Constitution at his request. [15:53] And if they'll do that on immigration, they might do that when it comes to your voting rights [15:58] or whether we have free and fair elections. [16:00] As for it being a close call, here was the vice president. [16:06] I do actually think there's a really big silver lining here. [16:09] The fact that this case was a five-to-four decision effectively means that the concept of birthright citizenship, [16:17] which is an absurdity to the 14th Amendment, that concept is hanging by a thread. [16:23] We actually have an opportunity to reverse this decision just as we've reversed so many bad decisions throughout the generations. [16:30] That is the sitting vice president's take. [16:36] They lost. [16:37] They lost with Republican justices ruling against them. [16:41] They lost with a Trump appointee ruling against them. [16:43] But he says, hey, we could still find some way to reverse this. [16:46] That's what you're up against if you are a believer in the Constitution and the Supreme Court's rule of law. [16:53] Trump has long obsessed over crowd sizes. [16:55] Disney's throwing this Independence Day Fair, and they're having a little trouble with it on the National Ball. [17:02] If you're going to show who's there, and you can see some of these photos, then you're going to see with your own eyes what's going on. [17:08] And that kind of attendance posed some trouble even for the often Trump-friendly Fox News. [17:14] Happy early birthday, America. [17:17] We're celebrating already at the great American State Fair. [17:21] Man, we've got thousands of people celebrating this birthday with us. [17:24] And it's because there are tons of people here. [17:26] It's a huge space, and it's just going to get more and more crowded as the week goes on. [17:31] Sometimes the pictures really don't tell the full story because if you look behind us, you see, okay, there are a couple hundred people back there. [17:37] But the truth is, when you make your way over here, and you're in this lot, you're in a wash of people. [17:45] I mean, it's like, you know, we came all the way down here so we could have this shot behind us, and now we're going to tell you why what you see behind us, the empty field, isn't really what to focus on. [17:57] Somewhere there's more people. [17:58] That was a kind of distortion in real time, a matter that is small but goes to credibility. [18:04] Insiders say Trump is livid at the obviously low turnout, which can't be masked. [18:09] As for the media trying to basically avoid offending an audience of one, well, South Park mocked and maybe predicted this. [18:21] This is 60 Minutes. [18:23] Oh, boy. [18:24] Oh, God. [18:28] The small town of South Park, Colorado is protesting against the president. [18:34] The townspeople claim that the president, who is a great man. [18:37] A great man. [18:38] Great guy. [18:38] We know he's probably watching. [18:40] And, uh, we are just reporting on this town in Colorado that's being sued by the president, and they are fighting back. [18:47] And just to be clear, we don't agree with them. [18:49] No, no, no, no. [18:50] No, no. [18:53] Don't be mad at us. [18:55] Or we swear there's people back there somewhere. [18:58] The jokes write themselves, but the punchline is evidently pretty serious. [19:03] Because we have to have facts if we're going to govern this country together. [19:08] And we might need leaders who are concerned about more than just their personal popularity and crowd sizes. [19:14] Joining me now is Congressman Robert Garcia. [19:18] He is the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. [19:22] And his fellow Oversight Democrats today debuted a widget on their website, you can check it out, [19:26] that they say tracks the Trump family's profits from, quote, digital grift. [19:32] And, man, the numbers keep going up literally every second. [19:36] There's so many things to ask you. [19:38] I want to start by just playing you something that journalist Maggie Haberman said recently. [19:42] She has a book out that everybody seems to be reading. [19:46] And she had this to say before Trump's financial disclosure was released. [19:49] Let me play that. [19:52] We've only, the collective we, the Wall Street Journal has done a lot of work, the Times, the Washington Post, [19:56] a lot of outlets have done a lot of work on this. [20:00] All of us have only scratched the surface, I think, of what is happening. [20:04] Because there's so much we can't see. [20:08] It's interesting because Chris and I were talking about how it's sort of a surprise they released this. [20:13] But it is a little bit like we know what they tell us. [20:16] You've been thinking a lot about Trump's unprecedented financial conflicts. [20:20] Do you agree with Maggie Haberman about the scope of what needs to be uncovered? [20:23] And really, that we still may not know a lot. [20:26] I completely agree. [20:31] I mean, the reality is, is what we know with public facing is just part of the massive corruption [20:38] that is happening every single day in the Trump White House and across all of our agencies. [20:44] There is evidence of pay to play. [20:46] There is evidence of the family enriching themselves. [20:49] Clearly, there's no question that everything from pardons being sold to contracts being given [20:54] to family members, to the grift around the cryptocurrency scheme. [20:59] I mean, just Donald Trump and just this presidency alone is $2 billion richer. [21:05] Just him, not to mention the rest of his family. [21:08] And so there's enormous amount there. [21:10] And whether it's corruption, whether it's the protection of pedophiles in the Epstein scandal, [21:15] whether it's giving out contracts to friends, whether it's selling access directly to the White House, [21:19] there will be so much to investigate in the years ahead that Donald Trump and his family [21:26] have to be prepared to answer questions and to be accountable to the American public. [21:31] And I want to talk about that because I think so many people are thinking about that. [21:34] You're going to be in quite a hot, important seat about that. [21:38] But first, I wanted to just get your thoughts about that series of events in the financial disclosures [21:42] I mentioned at the top of the show that basically Trump paused his Liberation Day tariffs leading [21:47] to a stock market surge one day after 327 purchases were made in his name. [21:54] Everybody's still digging through all of this, as I'm sure members of the committee staff are. [21:58] But how does that timing strike you? [22:03] Well, the timing is incredibly suspect. [22:06] I mean, look, I think that it's pretty clear to most folks that are looking at this [22:10] is that the Trumps are enriching themselves and using the government to do so. [22:14] While people can't afford gas, groceries, the cost of goods, the rent, [22:19] the Trumps are taking people's hard-earned wealth, giving it to themselves, [22:23] giving taxes to themselves and their friends, and then manipulating, [22:27] whether it's the market or they're manipulating their relationships [22:30] or they're using our foreign policy to sell off access and make themselves richer. [22:37] People need to understand that this is the most corrupt person to ever hold office in this country. [22:42] And we are going to expose it. [22:44] I will also share that we have reports from folks at our agencies, whistleblowers, [22:49] people that are engaged in day-to-day activities that see the corruption. [22:53] We are building strong investigations, and we're going to make the case, [22:59] and we're going to take this case to the American public, [23:01] certainly when we have the power to subpoena and have actual hearings, [23:05] that the Trump family is a family that is focused on enriching themselves and nothing more. [23:10] So let's talk about how you're going to go about doing that. [23:14] I know you're thinking about it, and Democrats have a very good shot of taking back power in the House, [23:19] especially the Trump sons, as I just noted this, they claim there is a firewall between them and their father. [23:25] It's very hard to believe. [23:27] I don't think that one particularly passes the smell test. [23:29] How would you go about getting to the bottom of it? [23:33] Does it involve bringing them up? [23:36] What is the process that people should expect you're preparing for come next January, February, potentially? [23:43] One, there is no firewall. [23:45] Give me a break. [23:46] That's hilarious. [23:47] The Trump boys are, they follow their dad, whether it's on the new Qatari jet now, Air Force One around the world. [23:56] When dad is out meeting with foreign dignitaries, the boys are right behind cutting real estate deals. [24:02] Donald Trump Jr. is apparently now, of course, advisor on all of these new companies popping up [24:07] that are getting these huge contracts that are enriching the company and Donald Trump Jr. with defense contracts. [24:13] And so what is happening right now is a complete grift, and it's going to be up to oversight Democrats [24:19] and other committees to investigate, to have the accountability. [24:23] I've shared with a lot of folks that when we win the majority, we will have a forward-looking agenda, [24:27] and that's important, but so is accountability. [24:30] We cannot just move on from the corruption and from the stealing of the American taxpayers' hard-earned wealth. [24:37] Folks like Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Jared Kushner, Stephen Miller, [24:41] they're going to have to be in front of our committee. [24:44] We're going to subpoena documents. [24:46] We're going to ensure that they appear. [24:47] There's already been precedent, by the way, to have family members of presidents appear before our committee, [24:53] including Hunter Biden, who I'm still trying to remember what actually he did. [24:57] Where was the grift in what Hunter Biden actually did? [25:00] These guys are actually stealing billions of dollars from all of you and from the American taxpayer. [25:05] And so the power of subpoena, investigation, putting the right teams in place, coordinating with committees, [25:11] and my partner, Jamie Raskin, on the Judiciary Committee, all of that is going to be important. [25:17] And we're working every single day and uncovering more and more grift. [25:22] That work will continue all the way through November. [25:25] And on day one, you can expect numerous subpoenas to go out the door. [25:28] I think for anybody watching who's just as pissed off as you sound and I am, [25:34] and there's so many people are in this country about how much money this family is making off of the presidency, [25:40] they're carrying you and they're thinking, like, that sounds great. [25:43] And it does sound great. [25:44] I think, as you know, but people should know, you'd be taking the gavel if Democrats went back the House under unprecedented circumstances. [25:52] I mean, there's Trump's weaponized Justice Department this term. [25:56] They're going to continue. [25:56] You won't have a partner in the DOJ. [25:59] How are you going to approach this if they just say, I'm not going to appear? [26:04] I'm not going to abide by the subpoena. [26:06] I refuse. [26:07] What are you going to do without the cooperation from the Justice Department? [26:12] Look, I think first, we've got to start out with courage. [26:15] And I think one thing that's really important is that we have got to take this on with everything we got [26:19] and know that the president and his allies are going to weaponize the government against us in this process. [26:25] He's already shown he's ready to do that. [26:27] We expect he will continue to do that going through the fall. [26:30] And he's going to go after folks on our committee and those people that are taking him on. [26:34] So, one, we've got to take this on with courage. [26:36] We've got to be fearless. [26:37] We've got to not only build national support like we've done with the Epstein investigation. [26:41] It's the singular most bipartisan popular issue in the country where people see eye to eye. [26:47] And that's because we've built support in the grassroots across the country, going into places where people are having these conversations and on TV shows and in the media that are not maybe traditional news shows. [26:58] We've got to reach folks where they are at. [27:00] And then finally, we've got to use our judicial powers along with our congressional powers to go after the family, to go after the corruption and ensure that we're getting all of the information that's happening across our agencies. [27:13] In the majority, as you know, we also have the power to sue. [27:17] In the minority, you don't have the same ability to bring lawsuits forward to the courts, whether it's federal court or other court. [27:23] That's a power that mostly the majority has. [27:26] And so, our ability to go to the courts, to use our allies and all the different judicial groups that also will go to the courts, and to use congressional power through subpoena and documents is going to be really important. [27:39] There is precedent for family members to appear, and we're going to hammer that home. [27:43] We will have, and we're going to require, that the Trumps, the Kushners, and others appear before our committee and others. [27:50] Let me ask you about this jet, because I think the visual of Trump flying, I mean, he flew for it on the first time today. [28:00] The jet that was, of course, donated by Qatar, refurbished to the tune of hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. [28:06] Aside from the obvious issues here, of which there are many, the fact that Trump says it will go to his presidential library instead of the next president is really hard to swallow. [28:16] Do you see a way where taxpayers can keep it, where it stays as a product of the U.S. government? [28:23] Look, I think there's some conversations, and certainly I think you'll probably see some actions in court on this issue. [28:31] But look, I think, broadly speaking, as an American, I think all of us should be horrified at what's happening, [28:37] that any American president, even a corrupt one like Donald Trump, is going to be flying around on a jet given to us by a foreign nation, [28:44] and he's going to be flying this jet on the 4th of July over the mall, celebrating a foreign nation, the jet, that then he plans on keeping, [28:56] that is not patriotism, that is not feeling proud of our country, and every American should be sickened by this action by Donald Trump. [29:05] And so that action, and being investigated, there are numerous committees looking at actually this plane, [29:11] because it's very suspect, and we're not also feeling that this plane might even be secure from a national security perspective. [29:17] But certainly whether or not he should be allowed to keep it is a question that I think will be fought in the courts. [29:23] Congressman Robert Garcia, there's always so much to talk with you about. Thank you again for being here tonight. [29:30] And there's this little thing in the Constitution called the Emoluments Clause. [29:33] And I want to read so people understand from a civic perspective what our Constitution does not permit, okay? [29:44] There's a clause in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 7, that deals specifically with domestic emoluments. [29:53] And it's called the Presidential Emoluments Clause because it ensures that the president receives a fixed salary [29:59] and borrows any additional emoluments from the federal government or the states during the term of office. [30:05] This protects the president from undue pressure or influence from Congress or individual states. [30:11] You see the words, the president shall, as stated, receive that money, right? [30:17] The Foreign Emoluments Clause, which is in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8, states that the president [30:27] prohibits any federal officeholder from accepting any present emolument office or title from a foreign state [30:37] or its rulers without the consent of Congress. [30:41] Its purpose, folks, is there to prevent corruption and limit foreign influence on U.S. officials, [30:48] reflecting the framers' concern about gift-giving practices common in Europe at the time. [30:53] Well, it seems that ish is common today. [30:56] Very common. [30:58] Look, I don't want people to gloss over what Michael is saying and the folks at home listening [31:03] because the reality is, as we barrel toward our semi-quincentennial celebration, [31:08] I will be saying it until July 4th. [31:10] The framers, they had literally just fought a revolution against a monarchy where the people [31:17] within the monarchy regularly profited from the government. [31:21] They did not want that. [31:23] So it was intentional. [31:24] And so the comments that you're hearing from not just Democrats but Republicans like Michael [31:29] Steele, folks all across the country about what the president is doing, not just that [31:33] it's corrupt but it is literally against the Constitution and the law, that's not a Democratic [31:38] talking point, that is a very old, I thought, a fundamental value, Luke, that we all held [31:44] as Americans. [31:45] My last point on this one is that Donald Trump is doing all of this. [31:49] Meanwhile, Americans are being squeezed. [31:51] And so they're seeing these headlines about billions of dollars in crypto, $400 million [31:56] jet from the Qataris, which is that even a national, is that even safe? [32:00] That's another question I have. [32:01] All of this money that Donald Trump and his family are making. [32:04] Meanwhile, they can't afford groceries at the grocery store. [32:06] So we're at the grocery store today and I was like, well, what the hell is going on here? [32:10] It's expensive. [32:11] It's very expensive. [32:13] And I think it speaks to the disconnect this administration has with everyday working [32:17] Americans, but also just how unseemly this is. [32:20] This is unprecedented in American history, this level of corruption and this level of [32:25] grift. [32:25] I saw a story recently where Gerald Ford's son talked about how they went into the White [32:30] House and he was a young guy and he came into the White House and he ordered all this [32:33] food and he gave it to all his friends and they had a great old time. [32:37] And the next morning, his dad calls him up and goes, you know, we pay for that, right? [32:41] You know, that's not free. [32:42] We saw Michelle Obama in Chicago tell a story about how she would go through the itemized [32:46] grocery list about what her kids were eating and just make sure that they had not spent [32:50] too much money because, A, they had to be in charge of that budget, but also wanted to [32:54] be mindful of what everyday Americans were going through. [32:57] None of that applies here. [32:58] This is an administration that is more than happy to enrich themselves, sees this second [33:03] term as YOLO. [33:05] You only live once. [33:06] I'm going to do whatever I want to do. [33:08] I control the Justice Department. [33:10] I control the markets that regulate this crypto. [33:13] I'm going to enrich myself. [33:15] And you know what? [33:17] Rules and regulations are for suckers. [33:20] And that's what we're seeing right now. [33:21] And it's a very scary thing. [33:23] Okay. [33:24] We got great guests tonight. [33:26] Thank you. [33:26] I mean, tell us a little bit more about your reporting. [33:28] I mean, first of all, Vaughn came straight up off of fraternity leave and he got hoops [33:33] and write-ups. [33:34] The reporters are reporting. [33:36] He's glowing, too. [33:38] He's got the glow. [33:39] Crypto has been spending a lot of cash. [33:41] They spent a lot of cash in the last presidential election. [33:43] They also spent a lot to elect House members. [33:47] Crypto's name was all over the White House for the UFC fight. [33:50] Tell us more about this reporting. [33:51] This is the part of crypto that I think folks need to understand. [33:54] Most people watching tonight are not trading crypto, are not investing in crypto. [33:58] Why is Donald Trump? [33:59] Why are his kids? [34:00] Somebody who he called it a scam himself a couple years ago before you realized he could [34:04] make a profit off of this. [34:06] They're doing crypto because unlike the first administration, when there were conversations [34:09] about the foreign emoluments clause and whether foreign countries were buying hotel rooms at [34:14] the Trump Hotel here in D.C. and renting out the ballroom. [34:17] That's like rated G compared to now. [34:19] It's kind of cute. [34:20] We're talking about a few thousand dollars, a few hundred thousands of dollars potentially. [34:23] Now we're talking about $1.4 billion in one single year. [34:27] And why is crypto such a big deal? [34:29] Number one, there's not actually anything tangible to it. [34:33] Okay. [34:33] This is about potential foreign countries and foreign entities being able to put hundreds [34:37] of millions of dollars to Donald Trump and his family in crypto is secret. [34:41] We don't know what is happening in the crypto market, literally the Department of Justice, [34:46] the unit called the National Cryptocurrency Enforcement Team in the Department of Justice, [34:51] Donald Trump disbanded it last year. [34:53] And so the fact that this is so secret and we don't even know where this $1.4 billion is [34:58] coming from, I think is of paramount concern because with those hotel rooms being bought [35:02] the Trump Hotel, we did know which foreign countries were. [35:05] This, we have no idea. [35:08] Maggie Haverman and Jonathan Swan, authors of the new book Regime Change, are back with us. [35:12] Jonathan, I'm reading from an excerpt here that new carpet was laid in the bathroom on [35:17] Inauguration Day as before. [35:19] Trump's preference for a fully carpeted bathroom had posed a challenge for the resident staff [35:23] during his first term. [35:25] The portion nearest the shower would often be soaked through. [35:28] The staff was never quite sure why, but they worried about mold growing underneath. [35:31] I've never in my life encountered carpeting in the bathroom, but this apparently is a [35:36] real Donald Trump must have. [35:38] Yes, it was important to him to have a fully carpeted bathroom. [35:43] And the resident staff's solution to the damp problem or the potential mold problem was [35:51] to get essentially a small piece of carpet and overlay it as if it was a bath mat on top [35:58] of the other carpet in front of the shower and then substitute and rotate that carpeting. [36:05] So we do have some details from inside the residence, including some disputes and tensions [36:13] between the president and the first lady over the interior decorating and renovating. [36:18] But that was a detail that, for one reason or other, seems to have stuck with people. [36:24] Yes. [36:25] Well, I think it's really quite memorable just because you don't encounter that a lot. [36:31] But let's talk a little bit about Bill Pulte, who is, as of now, the acting national director [36:36] of the intelligence in the United States of America. [36:39] He oversees all intelligence operations. [36:42] He is one of these people that seems to have managed to kind of ingratiate himself into Trump [36:49] by essentially always being there to cultivate Trump's most sort of vindictive worst impulses. [36:56] Is that a fair characterization, Jonathan, to how Pulte has sort of gotten to where he is? [37:04] Oh, there's no question. [37:05] I mean, we have scenes in the book where—so Bill Pulte was squired around Mar-a-Lago [37:13] during the transition by Roger Stone. [37:16] And I'm sure your viewers are familiar with Roger Stone. [37:18] He was—he's the heir of a home-building fortune, and he got this job at this very little-known [37:29] agency, the Federal Housing Finance Agency. [37:34] But what he would do is he would get these massive foam boards printed out, blown up, [37:39] and he would lug them around and take them into the Oval Office or take them to Trump's [37:44] golf courses, and they would have images of Trump's enemies on them. [37:49] And Pulte basically discovered within that agency a way to give Trump an opportunity to [37:54] go after his enemies. [37:55] So, for example, we have a scene in the book of Pulte showing Trump a foam board that had [38:01] this giant blow-up of Lisa Cook's head, the Federal Reserve Bank governor that Trump tried [38:08] to fire, and over the top it just said fraudster, right? [38:13] That's the sort of level of material that he's putting in front of Trump. [38:17] But Trump, of course, you know, loves it in many cases. [38:21] Yeah. [38:21] So now that he's in there at DNI, I mean, I think Trump said today he can declassify anything [38:28] he wants while he's there in this temporary job. [38:30] He's obviously—there's been murmurings that he's going to try to do something related [38:35] to the 2020 election, hard to imagine what that might be—that's absolutely his role [38:41] in Trump's mind as hatchet man. [38:46] Maggie, you guys write about the constrained information environment and how, you know, [38:52] the president's not getting a lot of—there's not a lot of broad inputs coming into him. [38:58] Mm-hmm. [39:00] I guess my question to you is, do you think one of two things—does he not care anymore [39:04] about essentially what we might call quaintly public opinion, or does he not actually have [39:10] connections to public opinion? [39:13] It's a bit of both, Chris. [39:16] One of the things that was shocking to us as we were reporting out this book is two things. [39:21] One is how he may get that way. [39:24] It's, you know, it's not that he doesn't care at all about the midterms, but he certainly [39:28] doesn't care much. [39:29] He may decide he's going to care eventually, but this is just not something that he's been [39:33] focused on at all in any major way. [39:36] We keep—you know, he will do his endorsements, but it's mostly to keep track of his own win [39:40] tally. [39:40] We keep hearing about how he's about to go do a bunch of events. [39:45] We're still waiting for that to happen with any kind of regular cadence. [39:48] Maybe it will in the fall. [39:49] It hasn't yet. [39:50] And he gave a very revealing quote last year about how he was proud that Republicans didn't [39:55] do well on the ticket when he wasn't on it as well. [39:59] So that tells you something about the mindset. [40:01] Number two, we got hold of private polling from his own internal pollster that gets circulated [40:09] memos to, you know, a group of about a dozen people in his world. [40:13] There was one poll that showed in December that—and it was shortly after Trump gave what [40:18] was billed as a—you know, it was going to be a speech about affordability. [40:20] And instead, Trump spent much of the time mocking the word affordability, describing [40:24] it as a Democratic hoax. [40:26] It was very clear that Trump was in trouble with voters as of December on the core issue [40:31] that he had won on twice, which was affordability and that he was going to make voters' lives [40:35] better. [40:35] And there was a line in the memo about how—and I'm paraphrasing—but that unless the White [40:42] House and the president and the GOP were honest with the public—the word was honest—about [40:46] the affordability crisis and how to fix it, it was going to be a very tough fall this [40:50] coming year. [40:52] So that was really striking. [40:53] But it's not that his advisors don't know it or don't tell him. [40:56] He's so unreceptive to bad news. [40:59] So there's always all of this strategizing about how to get through to him. [41:03] And his outside inputs are very limited now. [41:07] Most of his news comes from Natalie—information comes from Natalie Harp, this aide who's referred [41:11] to as the human printer who sits on the side of the Oval Office in almost every meeting. [41:15] And who is a supplier of all kinds of good news stories to him. [41:22] Most of his information on television comes from Fox News, which is far less critical of [41:26] him in this term overall than it was in term one. [41:31] Most of his information comes from calls where he reaches out to some ally or—and Jonathan [41:37] and I write about this—the Mar-a-Lago patio, where he goes and people tell him how fabulous [41:42] he is, or they stand and applaud him when he walks in. [41:46] So he's not out there talking to voters. [41:49] He's not doing rallies. [41:51] He is doing these gaggles that you see on the screen right there. [41:55] He is doing relatively few sit-down interviews, long form. [41:59] And, you know, he is creating his own reality. [42:04] Maggie Harriman, Jonathan Swan, the book's called Regime Change. [42:07] It really is—it's really, really interesting. [42:10] I feel like I got some real insight into this, even after these 11 years of my one precious [42:15] life covering this man. [42:16] Thank you so much for your time. [42:17] Appreciate it. [42:18] Thanks, Chris. [42:19] Thanks, Chris. [42:19] Thanks, Chris.