Military archbishop says Iran war is "compensating for a threat" before the threat is realized

[0:00] on thursday we spoke with archbishop timothy brolio the archdiocese for the military services [0:05] he oversees more than 200 priests serving as catholic chaplains in the u.s military [0:10] on bases and the battlefield we began by asking about the situation in the middle east [0:15] and the spiritual guidance the church is providing to service members who seek it [0:20] we're dealing with the situation in the middle east now for example where [0:23] the chaplains are still in place but many of the dependents have been moved to europe or back to the [0:32] united states so they find themselves in a situation where the faithful to whom they were ministering [0:37] are either gone or they're in hotels so that changes the whole reality and then there are [0:43] others of course who are with the troops that are have been moved in and of course their minister [0:50] ministry in certain senses a little more a little more regular [0:54] you [0:54] , but it's still a challenge because of the situation given that you're a priest ministering [1:01] to people in the military i imagine much of your work much of your focus is built around [1:06] saint augustine and the idea of just war or when is war justified the idea that it's only waged [1:13] as a necessity and in order that peace may be obtained and more broadly perhaps that the response [1:18] is proportional correct that's to gloss over pretty deep teachings but essentially that's the the root [1:24] of it [1:24] i know that after the president for example threatened to take greenland by force you had [1:30] said in an interview it doesn't seem acceptable to invade a friendly nation and that such rhetoric [1:34] tarnishes the images of the united states you said it would be an illegal and a moral order [1:39] to kill deliberately the survivors aboard an alleged venezuelan armed forces so given what's [1:47] going on in the middle east i'm curious is the war with iran justified i would think under the [1:54] justified under the just war theory um it is not just a war it's a war that is going on in the middle east [1:58] with the [2:11] revolution [2:13] no it is not because while there is a there was a threat with nuclear arms um it's a it's compensating for a threat before the the threat is actually is actually realized and i think there uh i would i would line myself up with pope leo who has been urging for negotiation i realize also that you could say well with whom are you going to negotiate and that that is that is a problem but um [2:29] In the meantime, lives are being lost both there and also among our troops. [2:34] So it is a concern. [2:36] And so if you're hearing from a service member who says, if your teachings, if your guidance is this is not justified, what am I to do as a Catholic who's in the service? [2:50] And that's a very good question, because obviously the way conscientious objection is set up in the United States military, [2:57] you cannot object to a specific war or a specific action. [3:02] You can only object to I'm opposed to war. [3:07] So I would think it depends on where you are in the in the chain of command. [3:13] Obviously, you know, the Marine who's given an order, he's not in a position really to to resist that order. [3:20] I mean, he has to obey unless it's it's unless it's clearly immoral. [3:25] And then he would probably have to speak to his, you know, [3:28] to his chaplain, to his chain of command. [3:29] The question might be, would you know, would would would generals or admirals have space to perhaps say, can we look at this a different way? [3:40] But having spoken to some of them, too, they're they're also in the same in the same dilemma. [3:45] So I guess my counsel would be to do as little harm as you as you can and to try and preserve innocent lives. [3:53] And you're approaching this from a moral perspective. [3:55] This isn't a partisan thing. [3:56] This is an ideological for your geopolitical. [3:58] It's your moral. [3:59] It's your moral leader. [4:01] So obviously, someone in the service who grapples with this will seek guidance from you and your brother chaplains. [4:09] How often do they come to you talking about how to seek forgiveness, perhaps, for being part of this? [4:14] That is actually something we've done a lot of work on as an archdiocese, the whole question of moral injury. [4:19] So, I mean, even if you obey a legitimate command, but you have to kill someone, that's going to leave some some traces in. [4:29] You know, in your in your heart or on your soul. [4:32] And so there we've tried to provide structures and help to to people in that situation to try and help them heal from those from those situations. [4:44] And that's not a question of making a judgment. [4:46] It's just a question of healing the individual who finds himself in that or herself in that in that situation. [4:53] Yeah. [4:53] You obviously and your and your brother priests are on Pentagon property. [5:00] Taking orders, obviously, through the military chain of command. [5:04] There's been a lot of conversation in recent weeks separate from the actual war itself regarding the rhetoric of, say, the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, [5:17] who openly invokes Jesus repeatedly when talking about the war with Iran, especially, and has prayed openly from the Pentagon press room for blessings upon American service members. [5:27] Obviously, his right to pray in public and however he sees fit. [5:30] But what do you make of of that sort of focus and sort of trying to cast this war as something that perhaps Jesus would justify? [5:42] It's it's a little bit problematic in the sense that a the Lord Jesus certainly brought a message of a message of peace and and also, I think, war is always a last resort. [6:00] Now, you know, we're in a time of crisis. [6:01] We're in a time of crisis. [6:01] We're in a time of crisis. [6:01] You know, they may have information that that led them to think that that was the only choice they had. [6:06] I I'm not making a judgment about that because I really don't know. [6:10] But I do think that it's it's hard to to cast this war, you know, as as as something that would be sponsored by by the Lord. [6:24] And that's certainly something the pope has suggested himself. [6:27] Right. [6:27] It's not not commenting on the secretary, but commenting on war generally. [6:32] That this. [6:32] This idea that that, you know, if you're praying for the success of the war, what does it he said recently? [6:40] He said God does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them. [6:45] And that would seem to put a lot of what's going on right now in conflict. [6:48] It certainly it certainly would. [6:49] And I turn back to just to Paul VI, who who made very few trips outside of of Italy. [6:58] But when he did come to the U.N., he made that dramatic appeal. [7:02] Which. [7:03] Which I saw live on television as a little kid, you know, jamais plus la guerre, jamais plus la guerre, never again war, never again war. [7:11] And and yet that was in 1965, I think now so many years later, we're still we're still in this situation. [7:22] So I think I think I would be in I think Pope Leo would definitely support saying that, you know, we have to find a situation where men and women can sit down and. [7:34] And. [7:34] And find avenues of peace. [7:36] In our remaining moments, you obviously minister primarily to Catholic service members, but this is a holy season, Passover underway, Ramadan recently having ended and ultimately on the battlefield. [7:48] It doesn't matter to your brother chaplains whether they're Catholic or Protestant or Jewish. [7:53] What's the interfaith dialog like these days, especially at a time of war? [7:57] I think it's it's it's very healthy in the sense that there is a genuine desire to collaborate. [8:03] Actually, I know most of the rabbis in the services because we frequently travel the same the same time at for us, Christmas and Easter for them, Passover and Hanukkah. [8:15] And they're fewer in number. [8:17] So I certainly get to to meet them. [8:19] But there is a genuine spirit of of collaboration and there's a desire to facilitate the work of of chaplains. [8:27] And I think that's a very it's a very healthy thing. [8:29] Well thank you for being here on this Easter weekend and thank you for coming. [8:32] Thank you. [8:33] Thank you. [8:33] Thank you. [8:33] Thank you, obviously, for your service, not only to the country, but to the faith. [8:37] We appreciate you spending some time with us. [8:38] Thank you. [8:39] Thank you very much for the opportunity.