Marco Rubio says 'we're not asking for China's help' with Iran

[0:00] Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker and we begin with the president's [0:04] high-stakes summit in China as he looks to forge a more cooperative relationship with Beijing [0:08] amid major tensions between the two nations tied to Taiwan, trade, and of course the war with Iran. [0:16] Today, China rolling out a literal red carpet with President Xi greeting President Trump in [0:22] a formal welcome ceremony complete with schoolchildren jumping and cheering while [0:26] waving flags, a military honor guard, and the performance of both countries' national anthems. [0:33] The two leaders then sitting down for the start of the summit. President Xi saying the U.S. and China [0:38] should be partners, not rivals, and that the world has come to a new crossroads. President Trump in [0:44] turn praising his relationship with the Chinese leader. We've had a fantastic relationship. We've [0:50] gotten along. When there were difficulties, we worked it out. I would call you and you would [0:55] call me. And whenever we had a problem, people don't know. Whenever we had a problem, we worked [1:00] that out very quickly. And we're going to have a fantastic future together. Such respect for China, [1:08] the job you've done. You're a great leader. I say it to everybody. You're a great leader. [1:13] Sometimes people don't like me saying it, but I say it anyway because it's true. I only say the truth. [1:18] That closed-door meeting lasting over two hours and, according to both sides, included discussions [1:25] about several contentious issues. Beijing saying President Xi warned the U.S. about, quote, [1:31] clashes and even conflicts over Taiwan, the democratic self-governing island that China's [1:37] communist government claims is part of its territory. The U.S. maintains an informal relationship with [1:43] Taiwan, including the sale of billions of dollars of weapons. Notably, Taiwan was not mentioned in the [1:49] White House readout of today's meeting. NBC's Tom Yamez sat down with Secretary of State Marco [1:55] Rubio and asked him about the discussions tied to Taiwan. Here's part of that exchange. [2:01] President Xi stressed to President Trump that the Taiwan question is the most important issue in [2:06] China-U.S. relations. Talk to me about that moment when that was discussed. [2:09] Well, they certainly feel that way and they always raise that issue. And we understand they raise that [2:13] issue. From our perspective, any forced change in the status quo and the situation that's there now [2:17] would be bad for both countries. One of the things that Chinese emphasize, which we agree, [2:21] is strategic stability in our relationship, a constructive relationship, but also one that [2:26] establishes strategic stability so that we don't have misunderstandings that could lead to broader [2:31] conflict. And so we always reiterate the point. We hear them when they say this. We always respond by [2:36] saying anything that would compel or force a change in what we have now would be problematic. [2:41] And that we would certainly, our policies on that have not changed. [2:44] The summit in Beijing is also happening against the backdrop of the U.S. war with Iran [2:49] with questions about what role China, a key economic partner for Tehran, could play in easing [2:55] tensions, particularly in the Strait of Hormuz. In an interview with Fox News, President Trump said [3:01] President Xi told him he would, quote, love to help and said the Chinese leader wants to see the [3:07] Strait open. But traffic through the Strait of Hormuz remains largely stalled, causing oil and gas prices to rise. [3:14] Tom Yamas also asked Secretary Rubio about his message to Americans who are facing the economic [3:19] consequences. Every day, Americans are spending more and more. Yeah. And they're saving less and [3:26] less. How do you explain to them why is this taking so long in Iran? Well, first of all, I would say [3:30] obviously it may seem like a long time from from the perspective of other conflicts that we've seen [3:34] in the past. It's only been weeks, not months, and certainly not years. But longer than the [3:37] president has told the American people. Well, we achieved the missions of Epic Fury. As the president was [3:42] leaving for China, did he make a mistake when he told the reporter that America's financial [3:47] situation isn't playing, quote, even a little bit of a role in his motivations to make a deal [3:52] with Iran? No, I think what the president is claiming is that Iran's not going to use that [3:55] as leverage against us. Doesn't that sound out of touch, though? I mean, Americans are spending so [3:58] much for gas. Because I think what the president is making clear is that we're not going to let Iran [4:02] use that as leverage. And I think what the president's making clear is if the Iranians think that they are [4:08] going to, you know, use our domestic politics to pressure him into a bad deal, that's not going [4:12] to happen. We've taken extraordinary measures to keep gas prices lower than they are in some other [4:17] parts of the world, and they will go down. Joining me now is NBC News senior White House [4:24] correspondent Gabe Gutierrez covering the president's trip in Beijing. Bonnie Lin, director of the China [4:30] Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Also with me are NBC News senior [4:36] national security correspondent Courtney Kuby and NBC News chief foreign affairs and chief [4:41] Washington correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Thanks to all of you for starting us off. Gabe, let me start [4:47] with you traveling with the president. A lot on the agenda today. Let's start with Iran. Talk to me [4:53] about the key takeaways on that topic coming from the president's bilateral discussion with President [4:59] Xi Jinping. Well, well, Kristen, what's very interesting is we haven't really heard from the Chinese when it [5:06] comes to Iran. You mentioned that the Chinese mentioned Taiwan right off the bat. But so far, [5:11] President Trump has said that, yes, that President Xi offered to help when it came to the Iran war and [5:17] offered to help do what he could to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. And the president Trump added that [5:23] Xi made a commitment not to provide weapons to Iran. So far, though, we have no confirmation about any of [5:30] that. And in fact, according to NBC News reporting, Dan DeLuce, our colleague Dan DeLuce, according to [5:35] two people familiar with the matter, that Chinese state companies have been in talks with Iranian [5:42] officials about potentially selling weapons to Iran through third countries to conceal their origin. [5:49] Now, it's unclear if that's actually happened yet, but it really raises the question about whatever [5:55] President Xi is saying to President Trump. Will he follow through on that? Still, though, [6:00] Trump administration officials so far say that Iran, excuse me, that China and the U.S. are on the same [6:06] page. And Secretary Rubio also telling NBC News that Iran has agreed that the Strait of Hormuz should not [6:14] be militarized and should have no tolls required to go through it, a position that both the U.S. and China [6:21] share. Yeah. And Gabe, as you say, Taiwan was the other significant topic of conversation. You heard [6:28] Secretary Rubio tell Tom Yamas there that China raised it. They always raise it. So no surprise [6:33] there. But President Xi, with this warning of possible clashes if the issue of Taiwan is not [6:39] handled well, it wasn't mentioned in the White House readout. What are your sources telling you [6:46] about those discussions, Gabe? Well, look, senior administration officials have been trying to [6:52] downplay this for quite some time, even several days ago, saying that they expected the Taiwan [6:57] issue to come up. But, Kristen, what you pointed out is right. The fact, it's not that it came up, [7:04] it's just how it came up. It came up right off the bat. Before the two-hour meeting behind closed doors [7:09] was even finished, the Chinese foreign ministry was putting out that statement, saying that President [7:14] Xi brought it up, calling it the most important issue. With all of the other issues that are looming [7:19] over the summit, China made a distinct choice to raise this first, perhaps laying the groundwork [7:24] for future conflict or ramping up the pressure on Taiwan. Kristen. And, Gabe, before I let you go [7:31] there, we know that the president is there in China with several business executives, some really [7:37] extraordinary scenes there. He announced that China has agreed to buy 200 Boeing jets, but that deal not [7:45] necessarily etched in stone. What's the reality check there? Well, look, officially, that hasn't [7:52] been announced, although the president did mention that in an interview, and the Treasury Secretary have [7:57] alluded to it. So we're expecting more firm details, perhaps, in the next couple of hours as this trip [8:02] wraps up. But, Kristen, we should also mention that we've heard about this before. There's been other [8:09] previous deals to buy a Boeing aircraft. And the truth is, this takes a long time for these aircraft [8:17] to be built, possibly into the next decade. Right now, Boeing has more than 6,000 or so unfilled orders. [8:24] Only so far this year, only 190 or so of these aircraft have been delivered. So even if China, [8:31] that's a big question, if China follows through on the purchase of these aircraft, it could be many years [8:36] before we see any economic benefit from this. However, the Trump administration is expected [8:43] to tout that as a reason or as a way that President Trump is trying to secure American jobs in [8:50] manufacturing, Kristen. All right. Gabe Gutierrez traveling with President Trump, reporting for us [8:56] there overnight Beijing time. Gabe, thank you so much. Appreciate all your great reporting. Let me turn [9:01] to Bonnie Lin now. Bonnie, tell me what your key takeaways are so far from what we have witnessed. [9:09] We saw that very warm welcome rolling out the literal red carpet for President Trump, that bilateral [9:15] meeting between the two, the business executives there. What are your takeaways? [9:21] Thank you, Kristen. I would start off by saying nothing so far has been surprising. We knew going into this [9:27] meeting that Taiwan was the top topic for China in addition to stabilizing U.S.-China relations. [9:33] I will point out that one thing that Xi Jinping has made clear is in the Chinese readout of what Xi said, [9:41] he said that the two sides have agreed to a new vision of constructive and stable, constructive relations [9:47] for the next three years. So I think the exact term was constructive strategic stability for the two [9:54] countries. So it would be interesting to see how that is carried out moving forward. On Taiwan, I would just note [10:01] that the wording that President Xi Jinping said is what we've seen so far the most severe and most blunt. And I would [10:09] note that even though he did not explicitly ask the United States to do anything, he did ask the United States to [10:15] exercise extra caution in heading the Taiwan question. So I think that's implied delay the U.S. arms sales to Taiwan. [10:23] Lots of things are implied by what President Xi Jinping said. So I agree that moving forward, China is very [10:31] carefully watching what the United States is doing there. On Iran, I don't expect China to be putting [10:37] much pressure on Iran to change its policies or to do much on the nuclear side. It was interesting that [10:45] according to the U.S. readout that China agreed that Iran should not have nuclear weapons. But I think it's [10:51] also important to note that right before a meeting with President Trump, the Chinese foreign minister had [10:56] met with the Iranian foreign minister. And China had also said that it supported Iran's peaceful use [11:02] of nuclear energy. So again, China's walking a very fine line right there. [11:07] Is there anything, Bonnie, that you think that President Trump could press President Xi Jinping on in [11:14] terms of, for example, helping to reopen the Strait of Hormuz? Do you anticipate there will be [11:20] any forward movement in that area? [11:22] So China is interested in opening the Strait of Hormuz because the closure of the [11:27] Strait is impacting China economically. But the problem is China doesn't want to [11:32] take any hits, doesn't want to actually exert, doesn't want to have any costs for doing that, [11:40] and is not willing to put significant economic pressure on Iran. So I expect China to continue [11:45] to have diplomacy with Iran, but I don't see China taking any major political or economic action to [11:51] make that possible. What will you be watching for? [11:54] Go ahead. [11:55] Yeah, sorry, go ahead. In terms of what President Trump could make, ask for, that I'm watching [12:02] for the next day or so, is what more can come from the economic truce, extending the economic truce, [12:08] and what more could we see in terms of either more Chinese agreement in terms of opening its markets [12:13] to U.S. businesses? Obviously, there's 14 CEOs accompanying President Trump. What more we might see [12:20] on soybeans and agriculture, which we haven't heard of yet? And will there be more promises [12:25] in general in terms of Chinese investment in the United States? [12:29] All right, Bonnie Lin, thank you so much for your insights. We really appreciate it. [12:33] Good to have you here. Andrea and Courtney, let me turn to you. Andrea, let's start with Taiwan. [12:39] You heard Bonnie say no surprise, of course, that China raised it, but certainly use some of its most [12:45] blunt language that has been used in a bilateral meeting with the president. What do you make of [12:52] that and the fact that the White House didn't mention Taiwan in its readout? I thought it was [12:56] tougher than I expected, having watched these summits before, and that in particular in the Chinese [13:02] readout, not only was the word conflict used, but that the Chinese readout said that Xi also said, [13:11] you know, raised the question about whether the two powers can avoid the Thucydides trap. [13:16] Well, a book by Graham Allison, the Harvard professor entitled The Thucydides Trap, [13:21] during Trump One, which came out during Trump One, points out that in over 500 years, when a major [13:30] power, a new power challenges a superpower, there is conflict. They go to war. 12 out of 16 times that [13:39] that that's happened in the past 500 years, five centuries. And this would be the 17th. So the odds [13:45] are very much favoring conflict when a new rising power, China, tries to challenge the United States, [13:54] the predominant superpower. And that's an ominous, very historic illusion by Xi. The kind of illusion, [14:05] you know, Courtney and Kristen, you know, is not typically raised by Donald Trump in these kinds [14:13] of meetings. So he, you know, doesn't in the American readouts, they're very simple and plain [14:18] vanilla. And in the Chinese go into great details, which seems to reflect what may actually have [14:25] happened in the meeting. Well, and what's so you've covered so many of these trips, you know, [14:29] that those readouts contain so much information that's not necessarily on the page. Andrew, [14:35] you're absolutely right to point that out. Courtney, let me turn to you because [14:39] as I was just discussing with Bonnie Lin, one of the big questions is about arms sales to Taiwan. [14:44] Will there be another one? The implication of what President Xi Jinping was saying to [14:50] President Trump was, do not send more weapons to Taiwan. How do you see that unfolding? And it comes [14:56] on the heels of just a couple of months ago when the U.S. approved the biggest arms package to Taiwan [15:00] in history over $11 billion. And it included some things that were very clearly for Taiwan's defense [15:07] of in the case of an attack by China. There is supposed to be another arms package that is even [15:14] bigger that's under consideration right now. It's not been approved. It's not really clear where that [15:18] stands. And that one includes some very some advanced air defense systems. Look, based off of the [15:24] readouts and what we've heard so far, there's no indication that arms sales are going to stop to [15:29] Taiwan. But there is also the possibility that if in fact there's enough pressure from the Chinese [15:35] government, that it's possible that the U.S. could slow roll them. And frankly, right now, when the U.S. [15:39] is already having their own problems with munitions and providing them to NATO for Ukraine, [15:46] you could see that being one of the ways that they would go forward. And there is some suggestion that [15:49] they're already slow. Yes. Deliveries have not come as quickly as the Taiwanese had wanted. [15:55] They're years. They already take years, you know. Well, I know you'll both track that very closely. [15:59] Andrea, I want to play one more exchange between our Tom Yamas and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. [16:05] Get your reaction on the other side. Take a look. Can you help me understand what exactly did President [16:10] Trump ask President Xi for when it comes to Iran? He didn't ask him for anything. I mean, [16:14] we're not asking for China's help or we don't need their help. But he raises the issue. [16:18] We raise the issue to make clear what our position is. [16:22] Was that notable that he said we didn't we don't need their help? What do you make of that? [16:26] That's also what the president suggested in part of his comments just before leaving on the South [16:32] lawn when at one point he said, yes, it's going to be a long talk. And then about 30 seconds later, [16:38] he said, we're not going to really talk about that because we don't need their help. [16:42] I think they're lowballing it, lowering expectations. And I think from other things that [16:48] have been said subsequently in other interviews, it's indicated that they did ask or at least raise [16:55] the issue of the strait. And actually, as Bonnie has pointed out, China does not want to pressure [17:03] Iran right now and has a lot of stockpiles. They've got enough oil and natural gas that they're [17:09] providing some of their Asian neighbors who are really straight, you know, in a stranglehold because of [17:13] the strait. And they also want to they do want to reopen it, though, partly because of their Gulf [17:19] partners. They're very close to the Saudis and the other Gulf countries that need the strait to be [17:25] opened. So they want it open, but they don't want to pressure Iran. And they'd kind of like to see [17:31] the president and the U.S. twisting in the wind on this. [17:35] Well, certainly when he returns home, going to be one of the biggest issues that he is still going to [17:40] have to try to deal with. Courtney, let me ask you about some new reporting that you have. [17:44] Chinese state controlled companies have discussed with Iranian officials a possible plan [17:49] to sell weapons. What can you tell us about that? Yeah. So we don't know if any have actually made [17:53] their way and we actually don't know what kind of weapons specifically they'd be looking at. [17:57] But the idea would be that it would be these state controlled companies that would provide them [18:00] through an intermediary through another country so that it would be difficult for them to trace [18:04] and they would ultimately make their way to Iran. Now, we've seen China, [18:08] and I'm just going to use the word metal in conflicts recently, including in Ukraine. But [18:12] the real difference here is China, as far as we know, and we ask that we still ask the question [18:17] all the time. As far as we know, China's only provided nonlethal support to Russia for use in [18:24] Ukraine. If in fact they were to move to lethal support weapons for Iran to use, that would be [18:29] significant here. That would be a red line. Yes. They've done dual use in the past. That's been raised at [18:35] various conferences. You and I were in Munich when that was raised. But in fact, if it's actually [18:40] weapons, that would, I think, be an American red line. Yeah. Let me ask, because there's [18:46] another piece of reporting I want to ask about, concerns about the Pentagon's munitions stockpile. [18:51] Courtney, let me get you to weigh in and then Andrea will get your thoughts. I mean, [18:55] this has been a problem that has been raised and the administration just continues to deny it. So [19:00] we now know that the Pentagon, despite their claims that they are they are building up their [19:05] stockpiles and there's two and three and four times as many that are being built. We know, [19:09] according to two U.S. officials and two sources familiar, that in fact there have not been any new [19:13] contracts penned or inked to actually move forward with building these munitions. And why that's so [19:19] important is because the time that it takes. So think about something like a tomahawk. It's been [19:23] extremely important in the both in the conflicts with Iran last year, the 12 day war. And then [19:29] during this war this year, the U.S. has burned through about somewhere in the neighborhood of [19:33] 1000, potentially more of their 3000 tomahawks. It takes years to create those and they only make [19:40] several hundred a year. If in fact there's they are so much in the hole and they are not already [19:45] building new ones, that means we're years out from actually rebuilding the stockpile. Andrea, [19:49] we have some sound with Secretary Hegseth responding to questions about the munitions [19:54] that the Pentagon has earlier this week. Take a look and I'll get your reaction on the other side. [19:59] I think, first of all, the munitions issue issue has been foolishly and unhelpfully overstated. [20:04] We're we know exactly what we have. We have plenty of what we need. And the reason we're [20:10] accelerating a lot of this is because the department's been static in how it does this kind of business. [20:14] Andrea. [20:15] That is gobbledygook. I mean, he's not answering the question. And as Courtney points out and who [20:23] tracks this so closely, there's a real issue of the spend the spend rate on these weapons. [20:29] Well, and it's obviously yet another issue that's going to loom so large over this war with Iran that [20:34] was supposed to be over in four to five weeks. And now it is still ongoing. Thank you so much, [20:39] Andrea Mitchell, Courtney Kuby. Great to have you both here. Really appreciate it. Thanks for starting us off. [20:45] And tune in tonight for more of Tommy Amos' one-on-one interview with Secretary of State Marco Rubio [20:51] on a special edition of Nightly News Live from Beijing. [20:55] We thank you for watching. And remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app [21:01] or watch live on our YouTube channel.