Meet the Press Full Episode — March 22

[0:01] This Sunday, battle lines. [0:03] President Trump threatens to target Iran's power plants [0:06] if the Strait of Hormuz, a vital global energy waterway, [0:10] remains closed as oil prices soar. [0:13] And the message from the White House shifts. [0:16] We strongly encourage the other nations to get involved with us. [0:21] Well, we don't need too much help. [0:22] We may unsanction the Iranian oil that's on the water. [0:26] And as the conflict deepens, the costs are rising. [0:30] And now the White House turns to Congress. [0:33] It takes money to kill bad guys. [0:34] It's a small price to pay to make sure that we stay tippy-toe. [0:37] Is the mission expanding? [0:39] I'll talk to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant [0:42] and Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. [0:45] Plus, breaking point. [0:47] As airport security lines grow, [0:49] the funding fight over the Department of Homeland Security drags on. [0:53] We should be able to get this done today. [0:54] Unfortunately, these are people who are not negotiating in good faith. [0:57] Can Washington strike a deal to end the DHL? [1:00] The NHS shutdown and warning Cuba. [1:03] President Trump threatens to take over Cuba [1:06] as an energy crisis pushes the island to the brink. [1:09] Whether I free it, take it, [1:12] I think I can do anything I want with it. [1:14] I'll talk exclusively to Cuba's Deputy Foreign Minister, [1:17] Carlos Fernandez de Cosio. [1:20] Are you saying that regime change is off the table? [1:22] Absolutely. [1:23] Joining me for Insight and Analysis are NBC News [1:27] Senior National Security Correspondent Courtney Kuby, [1:31] Glenn Martin of Politico, [1:32] Mike Dubke, former Trump White House Communications Director, [1:36] and Ashley Etienne, former Communications Director to Vice President Harris. [1:41] Welcome to Sunday. [1:43] It's Meet the Press. [1:45] From NBC News in Washington, [1:48] the longest running show in television history. [1:51] This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welkin. [1:55] Good Sunday morning. [1:57] The war with Iran is poised to enter a new and potentially more dangerous phase. [2:02] The Pentagon announcing it's [2:04] sending thousands of more troops to the Persian Gulf. [2:07] As NBC News reports, President Trump is weighing several options, [2:11] including the possible deployment of U.S. troops inside Iran. [2:15] One option under consideration using ground forces to reopen the Strait [2:20] of Hormuz, a critical artery for global oil supply. [2:23] The president was asked Friday about the buildup. [2:28] Mr. President, are you deploying the additional troops to the region for deterrence or to optimize [2:34] your operations? [2:35] What are your operational capabilities? [2:36] Well, I would say this, that if I told you the answer to that question, [2:40] my military people would be very happy. [2:42] But we have a lot of troops. [2:44] We have unlimited ammunition. [2:46] We have the greatest equipment in the world and we are decimating Iran. [2:51] Back here at home, the economic fallout is intensifying. [2:55] The stock market down four straight weeks and gas prices up nearly a dollar a gallon [3:01] since the war began, the administration now moving to ease [3:05] some oil sanctions on Iran and earlier on Russia in an effort to bring prices down. [3:11] All of this as the Pentagon prepares [3:14] to ask Congress for an additional 200 billion dollars to fund the war. [3:19] As far as 200 billion dollars, I think that number could move. [3:24] Obviously, it takes it takes money to kill bad guys. [3:28] It's our responsibility right now to end this reckless war of choice, [3:33] to end the fact that billions of dollars have already been [3:37] spent, perhaps up to two billion dollars a day to drop bombs in the Middle East. [3:43] We want to be sure. [3:44] And it's a small price to pay to make sure that we stay tippy top. [3:48] And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. [3:52] Secretary Besant, welcome back to meet the press. [3:54] Good morning. Good morning. [3:56] Good to have you back. [3:57] I want to start with the latest of what we're hearing from President Trump. [4:01] Let me read you what he posted overnight. [4:04] He says if Iran doesn't fully open without threat, the Strait of Hormuz within 48 [4:08] hours from this exact point in time, the United States of America will hit [4:13] and obliterate their various power plants, starting with the biggest one first. [4:18] Has the president changed his mind about [4:21] winding down the war, as he said a day earlier, and instead plans to escalate? [4:26] I think he said he could wind the war down at any time he wants. [4:30] And this is the only language the Iranians understand. [4:34] But this seems to be an escalation, a threat of escalation. [4:39] And it seems to run counter [4:41] to his statement that he, in fact, wants to wind down the war. [4:44] Again, Kristen, the president's been very clear from the beginning that the goals [4:49] are destroy the Iranian Air Force and the Navy to the completely demolish their [4:56] missile capabilities, demolish their ability to replenish those capabilities, [5:01] make sure the Iranians cannot have a nuclear weapon and stop their [5:05] ability to project power internationally and the president will take whatever step. [5:09] It takes to achieve those goals. [5:11] Well, you know, I was on the phone with President Trump a week ago. [5:15] He told me allies were on the way to help secure the Strait of Hormuz. [5:20] Has the Trump administration abandoned [5:22] that strategy and now chosen to go it alone again? [5:27] What we have done, there has been a campaign to be [5:33] using military assets to soften up the Iranian fortifications along the Strait. [5:39] That's going [5:40] to continue until they are completely demolished. [5:42] And Kristen, let me tell you, whether it's this network or the mainstream [5:46] press, the American people do not have good framing what is going on here. [5:50] If you were to read what is happening and I'm sure when Senator Murphy is on, [5:54] you know, he has come out and said we are losing the war. [5:57] That is wrong. [5:58] We have demolished the Iranian capabilities. [6:02] Their air force is completely destroyed, Navy destroyed. [6:06] And every day we are taking out their [6:09] missiles, their missile systems and the factories that build those missiles. [6:13] And now are the General Kane, Secretary Hegseth are leading a campaign [6:20] to destroy all the fortifications along the Straits of Hormuz. [6:24] Just to put a fine point on this, though, [6:25] is the president in the process of winding down this war or escalating? [6:29] Again, they're not mutually exclusive. [6:32] Sometimes you have to escalate to deescalate. [6:35] OK, NBC News is reporting that President Trump is considering sending troops into [6:39] Iran. [6:40] Will the administration use troops to secure the Strait of Hormuz or for any [6:46] other reason, Mr. Secretary? [6:47] Again, as President Trump said during the press break yesterday when he was going [6:52] out to Marine One, he's not going to give away what we're going to do. [6:57] He's as President Trump always does. [7:00] He's leaving all options on the on the table. [7:02] We had a very successful bombing [7:05] campaign against the military installations at Karg Island, the nexus [7:09] for all the Iranian oil supply. [7:12] What could happen with Karg Island? [7:14] We'll see. [7:15] And again, just to be clear, the command and control system of the Iranian regime [7:22] is in chaos. This is Hitler's bunker. [7:24] Hitler is dead. [7:26] Himmler is dead. [7:27] Goring is dead. [7:28] The most of what you're seeing are lone wolf activities. [7:33] This the mid-range ICBM that was shot off these two missiles yesterday. [7:38] That's out of desperation. [7:40] Kristen, you bring up Karg Island. [7:42] I want to ask you about your statement. [7:43] You said it could become a U.S. asset. [7:46] What exactly does that mean? [7:47] Could U.S. troops go into Karg Island to secure it? [7:50] Again, as I said, all options are on the table. [7:53] OK, so that's a possibility. [7:55] All options are on the table. All right. [7:57] Let me talk about your announcement this past week. [7:59] On Friday, the Treasury Department lifted sanctions on Iranian oil stored on [8:04] tankers, a move that would effectively allow Iran to get more than [8:09] $15 billion of oil revenue. [8:12] Why is the U.S. helping to fund a country that it's currently at war with, Mr. [8:16] Secretary? Again, Kristen, why don't we have good facts here? [8:20] That Iranian oil was always going to be sold to the Chinese. [8:23] It was going to be sold at a discount. [8:25] So which is better, Kristen? [8:28] Which is better? [8:31] If oil prices spiked to $150 and they [8:34] were getting 70 percent of that or oil prices below $100? [8:39] It's better to have them where they are now. [8:41] And to be clear, we had always planned for this contingency. [8:45] About 140 million barrels are out on the water. [8:49] In essence, we are jujitsuing the Iranians. [8:53] We are using their own oil against them. [8:57] We have a much better line of sight, to be clear, at Treasury when this oil goes to. [9:04] If it goes to Indonesia, if it goes to Japan, if it goes to Korea, we have a much [9:09] better line of sight and are able to block accounts that the oil goes into. [9:14] When it goes into China, it completely gets recycled. [9:17] So to be clear, that 14 billion number is grossly overstated. [9:24] Let me unpack what you're just saying. [9:25] First of all, how much is it? [9:27] And second of all, I don't hear you [9:28] disputing that Iran will get some of the money. [9:30] Iran already gets a huge amount of the money because Iran is the largest sponsor [9:36] of state terrorism and China has been funding them. [9:39] So it was always part of the plan to unsanction Iranian oil. [9:42] Again, we unsanctioned the Russian Treasury. [9:46] We plan for all contingencies. [9:48] We have break the glass plans and to be able this water, this oil is floating [9:54] out in Asia and it is our the mostly our Asian allies. [10:00] The U.S. gets virtually no oil from the Gulf. [10:04] We are energy sufficient. [10:06] So when we unsanctioned this, rather than [10:09] the oil going to China, it can go to Japan, it can go to Korea, [10:12] it can go to Indonesia, it can go to Malaysia, go to Iran, too. [10:15] I mean, isn't the point that [10:17] the sanctions were in place to prevent Iran from getting any of the money? [10:21] They will have access to some of them. [10:22] Again, Kristen, you're missing the point. [10:25] So please listen to me. [10:27] They were getting it from China anyway. [10:30] All right. Let me talk about the real world [10:33] impact of this, because you're talking about one hundred and forty million [10:35] barrels of Iranian oil, and that's just a little bit more than what the world uses [10:40] for one day. How much can that really change prices? [10:43] Again, first, terrible framing, terrible framing. [10:46] How much can it change prices here at home? [10:48] Let you talk to consumers. [10:50] How much will it change prices here? [10:51] Just let me explain. [10:53] One hundred and forty million barrels that about 20 million barrels a day [10:59] comes out of the Gulf, about five million has been the repurposed by the Saudis, [11:06] by the UAE. So we're at a 15 deficit. [11:09] About one point five. [11:11] That is Iranian oil that comes out. [11:12] So we are at between a 10 and 14 million deficit on a daily basis. [11:20] So if you think about one hundred and forty million barrels, that's between 10 [11:25] days and two weeks of supply and one of the reasons one of the reasons the prices [11:30] in the U.S. of West Texas crude are below one hundred dollars. [11:34] And we have not seen this massive spike as we did during the beginning of Russia. [11:40] Ukraine. [11:41] Is because we are well supplied in the market, whether it is the Russian oil, [11:46] whether it is the Iranian oil or it is the largest the SPR release in history [11:52] done by a coalition of thirty two countries, four hundred million barrels. [11:56] All right. Let's talk about the Russian oil, which you just raised. [11:59] The administration did use oil sanctions on Russia earlier this month. [12:03] You had initially defended imposing [12:06] those sanctions, calling Russian exports, quote, oil that funds the Russian war machine. [12:10] If the point of the sanctions was to stop funding the Russian war machine, [12:14] why is the administration effectively rewarding Russia? [12:18] Again, Kristen, you're missing the point, which the which is better. [12:22] Does Russia get more money if oil goes to one hundred and fifty and they get 70 [12:27] percent of that, that's one of five or if oil stays below one hundred. [12:31] So they're getting less money. [12:33] Our analysis shows our analysis shows that the maximum extra amount that Russia could get [12:39] would be two billion dollars, [12:41] which is what which is one day's of the Russian Federation's budget. [12:46] But understood. But they wouldn't have gotten any of that with the president. [12:49] Chris, I don't know. [12:51] Would they have gotten any of that in place? [12:53] You whoever does your research, you should get rid of because they would. [12:57] They were getting it. It was going into China. [12:59] China was buying over 90 percent of the Russian oil and it was. [13:03] But what's the point of sanctions if not to punish Russia, if not to punish countries? [13:07] Again, the if we have no ability. [13:11] To do that to China, if if China wants to be a bad actor, [13:16] but we were substantially able to degrade their exports, their exports have dropped [13:23] about twenty five percent when the rest of the world isn't buying it. [13:26] So exports are down. [13:28] But there was a lifeline into China. [13:31] Now we've opened up that to everyone else. [13:34] OK, just to be clear, though, you did defend imposing those sanctions in the first place. [13:39] Let me just to be clear. [13:40] It is a maximum of two billion dollars. [13:43] So let's have good framing on this. [13:45] OK, let's talk about the overall cost of this war. [13:50] The administration's asking Congress poised to an additional two hundred billion [13:54] dollars in additional funding for this war. [13:56] Some Republicans who could cast key votes [13:59] on this are expressing hesitation or outright opposition. [14:03] Take a listen to them. [14:04] And then I want to get your reaction on the other side. [14:07] Are there any initial red flags for you? [14:10] No, man. [14:10] It's a lot of money. [14:11] I'll go through it, see what they need. [14:13] I am a no. I've already told leadership I am a no on any war supplementals. [14:17] I am so tired of spending money elsewhere. [14:21] Should President Trump have gone to Congress on the front end of this war [14:26] if he was going to ask for Congress's help now for more funding? [14:30] Again, President Trump was [14:32] within his authorities, the under the War Powers Act to initiate this action. [14:39] And we we actually now. [14:41] We have plenty of money to fund this war. [14:43] What we are doing is this is supplemental. [14:46] President Trump has built up the military as he did in his first term, [14:50] as he is now doing in his second term, and he wants to make sure that the military [14:56] the is well supplied going forward. [15:00] Would the administration ever raise taxes in order to fund this war? [15:06] Again, Kristen, the terrible framing. [15:09] I think that. [15:10] Well, it's just a it's a simple question that I think a lot of people have. [15:14] It's a ridiculous question. [15:16] Well, what can you answer it? [15:19] Why would we do that? [15:21] That the that we have plenty that we have a trillion dollars. [15:27] The in this year's budget for the military and President Trump, [15:33] even before the conflict started, had said that he would like to further build out [15:37] the military. So just is raising taxes under consideration at all. [15:42] You're saying you have plenty of money, not at all. [15:44] OK, let's turn to how all of this is impacting consumers. [15:48] United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby is now planning, he says, to cut flights and is [15:53] planning for oil to go as high as one hundred and seventy five dollars a barrel [15:57] with prices potentially staying above one hundred dollars a barrel through 2027. [16:01] This is according to him. [16:02] All of this could potentially mean higher prices for consumers. [16:06] What do you say to Americans who feel they [16:09] were promised lower costs and now they're getting the opposite? [16:12] I think the American people understand that in any 50 I'm not going to put a time [16:19] on it, but let's just pick 50 days of temporary elevated prices. [16:25] Prices will come off on the other side for 50 years of not having an Iranian [16:31] regime with a nuclear weapon, the American people. [16:34] They are beginning to understand, [16:37] thanks to President Trump, that there is no prosperity without security. [16:41] I heard you say. [16:42] 50 days. Are you saying that prices could start to come down? [16:45] What's the time? [16:46] I was just picking picking a point. [16:49] I don't know whether it's going to be 30 days. [16:51] I don't know whether it's going to be 50 days. [16:52] I don't know whether it's going to be 100 days. [16:54] But to have 50 years, the peace in the Middle East and know [17:00] that the Iranian regime is defanged because what we had before was the illusion of security. [17:06] Imagine this regime if they had had another year or two years to [17:11] build out their missile capabilities, they would have built a shield around [17:15] themselves and it would have been impossible to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon. [17:20] All right. [17:21] I want to ask you a different topic about a post by President Trump from yesterday [17:26] responding to the death of former special counsel Robert Mueller. [17:30] He posted this quote, Robert Mueller just died. [17:33] Good. I'm glad he's dead. [17:35] He can no longer hurt innocent people. [17:38] Do you think it's appropriate for the president of the United States to [17:41] celebrate? [17:42] The death of an American citizen, someone who's a bronze star, [17:44] Purple Heart recipient and who served in Vietnam? [17:47] Kristen, I was with the president in the green room at Davos and there was a video [17:51] playing of the what may have been an illegal raid on his home at Mar-a-Lago. [17:57] They are going through his wife's wardrobe and I watched the look in his eye. [18:03] And I think that neither one of us can [18:05] understand what has been done to the president and to his family. [18:09] But to the question of [18:11] the president's post, I mean, Robert Mueller didn't order that raid. [18:15] Is it appropriate for the president to [18:17] celebrate the death of any American citizen? [18:19] Again, I think that given what has been done to President Trump and his family, [18:24] it is impossible for either of us to understand what he has been through. [18:29] So you don't think that there's anything wrong with the post? [18:32] Say again, I think that the we should all have a little empathy for what has been [18:40] done to him and his family. [18:42] All right, Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, thank you as always for being here. [18:46] Really appreciate it. Thank you. [18:48] When we come back, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy joins me next. [19:04] Welcome back. [19:04] And joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. [19:08] Senator Murphy, welcome back to meet the press. [19:09] Good morning. Good morning. [19:10] Thank you for being here. [19:12] I want to start with Iran. [19:14] The Pentagon, as I was just discussing with the Treasury Secretary, is planning to ask [19:18] Congress for more than 200 billion dollars in additional funding for the war. [19:22] Most Democrats have vowed [19:24] that they're not going to approve this funding request. [19:27] But by opposing this request, [19:29] are you risking potentially leaving American forces vulnerable? [19:34] I thought that was a really scary appearance by the Treasury Secretary. [19:39] This administration has totally lost touch with reality. [19:43] This war is spinning out of control. [19:46] Prices are spiking for millions of Americans. [19:49] There's a new war breaking out between Israel and Lebanon. [19:52] Oil assets of our allies are [19:54] continuing to be hit in the region. [19:56] There's no end in sight. [19:59] The Secretary of Treasury just said we're going to escalate in order to de-escalate. [20:04] It's like they've never read a history book. [20:06] That's exactly what our war leaders said in the middle of Vietnam and the 20 years [20:11] of mismanagement in Afghanistan. We need to end this war. [20:15] The only way you are going to get prices down here in the United States, [20:19] the only way that you are going to bring peace to the region is by ending this war. [20:24] And maybe that the quickest way we can do that is by denying them the funding that [20:28] they need to perpetuate this war, which is increasingly out of control. [20:33] Well, let me ask you, though, because the war is underway. [20:37] You have argued and I'll put this quote, we need to end this war right now. [20:42] If the U.S. ends the war right now, as you're arguing for, could that leave Iran [20:48] with a more extreme anti-American regime and even lead to a potentially [20:54] larger conflict for the next administration? [20:57] But the administration has already said their goal is not regime change. [21:01] They are perfectly satisfied to leave in charge of Iran a regime that is going [21:06] to be worse for American interests than the previous regime. [21:11] What we know is that the minute we stop bombing, this new regime is going to start [21:15] rebuilding their missile capacity and their drone capacity. [21:18] The estimates are that it'll only take [21:19] them a handful of months to reconstitute that threat. [21:22] So what did we get at the end? [21:24] We're at the end of this war. [21:25] We're going to waste billions of dollars. [21:27] We're going to get dozens, if not hundreds of Americans killed. [21:29] We're going to start new conflicts in the region. [21:32] And when it's all said and done, [21:34] a more provocative regime is going to be in charge with the same military capacities. [21:39] This is nonsensical. [21:41] This is what happens when you put real estate developers and talk show hosts [21:45] in charge of American national security. [21:47] Just to be very clear, you are a no on any funding request. [21:50] I'm absolutely a no on any funding request. [21:53] I mean, every single one of them. [21:54] Every single day. [21:56] This war makes less and less sense. [21:59] We're going to give Iran 14 billion dollars to fund this war with the United States. [22:05] We're going to give Russia billions of dollars to fund their war with Ukraine. [22:09] We're literally putting money into the [22:11] pockets of the very nations that we are fighting right now. [22:15] We've never seen this level of incompetence in war making in this country's history. [22:20] And frankly, we've had a lot of incompetence in war making. [22:23] Well, speaking of my [22:24] question with the Treasury secretary, he said all options are on the table when I [22:27] asked him about ground troops, is there any scenario where you would [22:32] support putting U.S. boots on the ground in Iran? [22:36] Never, never. [22:37] That would be a mistake of of colossal proportions. [22:40] And the American public don't doesn't want this war. [22:43] Right. [22:43] If we're going to spend 200 billion dollars, they want that money to be spent on them. [22:50] Think of what we could do with 200 billion dollars here at home. [22:53] We could make sure that. [22:54] None of the 20 million Americans that are getting a health insurance increase [22:58] because of Trump's policies have their premiums raised. [23:00] We could rebuild schools in every neighborhood across this country. [23:04] The fact that this president is so focused on Iran and Venezuela has no interest [23:08] in helping people here at home, it's absolutely heartbreaking. [23:11] You heard me ask the secretary about the decision to loosen oil sanctions on Iran [23:16] and Russia. He said that money was going to go to China anyway. [23:19] He argues these are temporary moves that are ultimately going to bring [23:24] pressure on the supply of the global oil markets. [23:28] Are you supportive of those moves if ultimately they do, in fact, lower the cost of oil? [23:33] The only way to lower energy prices is to end this war. [23:39] I mean, what he told you is that [23:42] Iran was getting discounted prices previously from China and we are now [23:48] removing sanctions so that they can get premium prices. [23:52] So we are literally putting billions [23:54] of dollars into the very regime that we are fighting. [23:58] Again, no matter how badly we fought [24:01] the war in Iraq or Afghanistan or in Vietnam, I don't think at any point during [24:06] those wars we were literally handing the enemy cash with which to fight our troops. [24:12] I mean, we've just never seen anything like this. [24:14] The quickest way to lower energy prices is [24:17] to end this war and get this president focused on this country. [24:21] Well, let me talk to you about the shutdown. [24:23] President. [24:24] Trump is threatening to put ICE agents in airports as early as Monday as we're [24:30] seeing these long TSA lines as TSA agents call out sick or don't show up to work [24:35] because they're not receiving a paycheck amidst this partial government shutdown. [24:39] Does that threat make you more inclined to end this shutdown? [24:45] Why don't they just reopen TSA? [24:48] Why don't we just reopen the Coast Guard and FEMA? [24:51] Democrats have been clear we are willing tonight [24:54] to provide the votes to open up every part of the Department of Homeland Security [25:00] while we resolve our narrow differences on how ICE is terrorizing our communities. [25:06] So almost every single day last week, [25:09] Democrats went to the Senate floor and said, let's open up ICE. [25:12] Republicans said, no, let's open up the Coast Guard. [25:14] Republicans said, no, they want to hold TSA hostage so that they can continue [25:21] getting Democrats to fund the illegality happening at ICE. [25:24] Let's isolate our difference. [25:26] Let's not hold TSA hostage any longer. [25:28] Well, during the previous shutdown in the fall, you criticized the eight Senate [25:33] Democrats who broke ranks to negotiate an end to the shutdown with Republicans. [25:37] You said they capitulated and lost the, quote, political advantage. [25:42] Do you see this shutdown ending in the exact same way with moderates [25:46] effectively saying time to end this time to make a deal with Republicans? [25:50] Well, I hope the Democrats stay together on a very [25:54] simple principle, which is we swore an oath to the Constitution to uphold the law. [26:01] And right now ICE is operating lawlessly. [26:04] No matter who's in charge, they are rounding up legal immigrants, denying them their rights. [26:10] They are still terrorizing American citizens. [26:12] They are abusing protesters who are standing up to this illegal activity. [26:18] So until we get commitments from the [26:20] administration that ICE is going to behave legally, yes, I believe the Democrats should [26:24] stand together. [26:25] We have an obligation to not fund an agency that is acting this lawlessly. [26:29] And to the point, leadership is, of course, leading the charge here. [26:33] And there's a lot of focus on Chuck Schumer right now. [26:36] The Wall Street Journal reporting that there's growing frustration with Chuck [26:40] Schumer, which spurs talk of replacing him. [26:43] Senator, do you want to replace Leader Chuck Schumer? [26:47] Well, I think we are united right now as a caucus. [26:50] There's always a lot of focus on Senator Schumer and Leader Jeffries. [26:53] Those are very hard jobs, [26:55] especially at a historic moment like that's not a yes. [26:58] Well, no, we are united as a caucus right now. [27:00] Let me just be clear about that. [27:02] We are united in ending this war. [27:03] We are united in reigning in the lawlessness of ICE. [27:07] And we're going to be united in winning the election this November. [27:10] So right now we are together as a caucus. [27:12] So if you do win the election, would you vote to keep him as leader? [27:16] Well, listen, I think he has a very tough job. [27:18] And right now you are seeing the Democratic caucus united. [27:21] That's really important. [27:22] Very quickly, your reaction to President [27:25] Mueller saying he's glad former special counsel Robert Mueller is dead. [27:28] I mean, it's just disgusting and so [27:30] heartbreaking that we have a president who's cheerleading the death of American [27:34] citizens. The fact of the matter is, Robert Mueller is amongst many who have [27:37] been trying to hold this president to account. [27:39] He's the most corrupt president in the history of the country. [27:42] And of course, he is going to wish for the death of the people that are trying to [27:47] hold him accountable to the law, but that doesn't make it any less disgusting. [27:50] All right, Senator Chris Murphy, thank you so much for being here. [27:53] Now you're here working in Washington. [27:55] I appreciate your being here in person. [27:56] When we come back, President Trump threatens to take over Cuba. [28:00] I'll talk exclusively to the deputy [28:02] foreign minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cosio next. [28:11] Welcome back. On Saturday, I spoke with the deputy [28:13] foreign minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cosio. [28:17] Thank you so much for being here. [28:19] I do want to start off by playing for you something that President Trump said [28:24] about Cuba just this week, speaking from the White House. [28:28] Take a listen. [28:29] I do believe I'll be [28:31] in the honor of having the honor of taking Cuba. [28:37] That's a big honor. [28:38] Taking Cuba. Taking Cuba in some form. [28:40] Yeah, taking Cuba. [28:41] I mean, whether I free it, take it, I think I can do anything I want with it. [28:46] You want to know the truth? [28:48] Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, what was your reaction to hearing that? [28:53] Is Cuba bracing for the United States to take it in some form? [28:59] Truly what we don't know what they're talking about. [29:02] But I can tell you this. [29:03] Cuba is a sovereign country. [29:05] And has the right to be a sovereign country and has the right to self-determination. [29:11] Cuba would not accept to become a vassal [29:14] state or a dependent state from any other country or any other superpower. [29:21] Well, let's delve into this a little bit more deeply. [29:23] Cuba's president released a statement [29:25] that read in part, quote, any external aggressor will clash with impregnable resistance. [29:31] Do you believe any action by the United States would escalate into a military conflict? [29:37] We hope not. [29:41] But what our president expressed is what any country that respects itself would [29:48] convey if there was a threat to try to take over a country or to try to dominate or control it in any way. [29:56] But we truly hope that there's no military action. [29:59] And frankly, we see no reason. [30:01] We see no justification for military action against Cuba. [30:05] Cuba is a peaceful country. [30:06] We're not an enemy of the United States. [30:08] We don't pose any threat to the United States. [30:11] In fact, we wish and we said it openly that we would like to have a friendly [30:16] and respectful relationship with the United States, with its government. [30:19] And we've developed we've been developing [30:21] it for a long time with the people of the United States. [30:24] And yet you heard those words by President Trump. [30:27] So I'm wondering, is your military [30:30] preparing for a potential engagement with the United States? [30:35] Our military is always prepared. [30:37] And in fact, it is preparing these days for the possibility [30:42] of military aggression. [30:43] We would be naive if looking at what's happening around the world, we would not do that. [30:48] But we truly hope that it doesn't occur. [30:52] We don't see why it would have to occur. [30:53] And we find no justification whatsoever. [30:56] Why would the government, the United States, [30:59] force its country to take military action against a neighboring country like Cuba? [31:03] So this is a remarkable statement that you've just made, that Cuba is in fact [31:07] preparing for the potential possibility of a military engagement with the United States. [31:12] Can you be more specific? [31:14] What do those preparations look like? [31:18] Our country has historically been ready [31:22] to mobilize as a nation, as a whole, for military aggression. [31:27] We truly always see it as something far from us. [31:31] We don't believe it is something that is [31:33] probable, but we would be naive if we do not prepare. [31:38] That's what I can tell you. [31:40] The U.S. and Cuba have confirmed that they [31:43] are talking, but have given very few details. [31:45] Secretary of State Marco Rubio is leading [31:49] those talks. [31:50] For the United States. [31:51] Here's what he had to say from the White House this week. [31:54] Take a listen. [31:56] So they're in a lot of trouble and the people in charge, [31:58] they don't know how to fix it. [31:59] So they have to get new people in charge. [32:02] So is the United States insisting on [32:05] regime change in order to give Cuba economic relief? [32:11] I don't know what they're insisting among themselves, [32:14] but I can tell you in conversation with the United States and in dialogue [32:19] with the United States, the nature of the Cuban government, the structure [32:23] of the Cuban government and the members of the Cuban government are not part [32:27] of the negotiation, that is something that no sovereign country negotiates. [32:31] I don't know how many examples are there [32:34] of countries that negotiate with a foreign power, their system of government [32:39] or the nature of the government. I'm sure the United States doesn't is not ready [32:43] to negotiate with another government, its constitutional system, its political system. [32:49] Now, the U.S. government knows that the problems are Cuba faces [32:52] are in a great, great measure. [32:55] The result of policies of the United States [32:59] aimed at causing as much harm possible [33:02] to the Cuban economy, to Cuban society and to the people of Cuba, [33:07] which makes any government makes it for any government very difficult to manage [33:11] things and to get good results when a superpower is exerting such level [33:16] of pressure, above all, economically on the country. [33:19] Are you saying that regime change is off the table? [33:25] Absolutely. [33:27] Foreign Minister, NBC News has been on the ground in your country all week long. [33:31] Our crews have seen people who haven't [33:33] worked in weeks, kids who haven't gone to school, food and energy running [33:38] dangerously low. President Trump says he believes that Cuba will collapse on its own. [33:43] Is your country currently in a state of collapse? [33:48] What does on its own mean when it's being forced by the United States? [33:53] It's a very bizarre statement and it's claimed by most U.S. politicians, [33:58] repeatedly, that Cuba will collapse on its own. [34:02] Then why does the U.S. government need to employ so many resources, [34:07] so much political capital, so many human resources to try to destroy the economy [34:13] of another country? Evidently, it implies that the country does [34:17] not have the characteristics to collapse on its own. [34:21] But is your country in a state of collapse, Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister? [34:27] It is not in a state of collapse. We're being as creative as possible. [34:31] We're mustering all our creativity, our ingenuity to try to find ways in which [34:37] we can cope with the reality that we did not choose, of which we are not responsible, [34:43] and that would help our people go through this with the least pain possible. [34:47] But pain is there, I have no doubt. [34:49] You say you're not responsible. [34:52] Putting this blockade aside, though, Mr. [34:54] Deputy Foreign Minister, human rights groups have reported that nearly 90 percent [34:58] of your citizens live in extreme poverty. [35:02] Nearly 80 percent of your citizens intend to emigrate. [35:05] Has your system of communism failed the people of Cuba? [35:12] I don't know which are your sources and which are the human rights organizations [35:17] that claims such, but I'm sure and I can quite accurately guess that the majority [35:23] are either financed directly by the U.S. government or by proxies of the U.S. [35:27] government. Now, people are hurting in Cuba. [35:30] There's no doubt about that. But you do not, you cannot put [35:34] a question mark on the system of socialism or communism or the system of government [35:39] that we have in Cuba, whichever way you wish to call it. [35:43] If the U.S., the most powerful nation in the world, has had to dedicate almost seven [35:49] decades to try to destroy the system of government and yet failed. [35:54] Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, just finally, [35:56] what is your message to President Trump this morning? [36:01] Cuba has no quarrel with the United States. [36:04] We do have the need and the right to protect ourselves, but we are willing to sit down. [36:09] We're open for business and we're all being open to having a respectful [36:14] relationship that I'm sure the majority of Americans would support. [36:18] And I'm sure the president of the United States would support if he could sit down [36:22] and talk meaningfully about it. All right. [36:25] Cuban Deputy Foreign Minister Carlos Fernandez de Cosio. [36:28] Thank you so very much for joining us this morning. [36:30] We really appreciate it. Thank you. [36:33] Thank you. And you can watch my full interview [36:36] with the deputy foreign minister at MeetThePress.com. [36:39] When we come back, we look [36:41] back on the beginning of the U.S.-Cuba standoff that began with questions [36:45] about democracy and power. Our Meet the Press Minute is next. [36:54] Welcome back. President Trump's threats to take over Cuba [36:58] are the latest flashpoint in a decades long standoff, one that began in 1959 [37:04] when Fidel Castro overthrew Florencio Batista. [37:08] Months later, Castro sat down with Meet [37:10] the Press and was pressed on what moral authority Cuba had to speak about democracy. [37:16] As his government backed revolutionary movements across the region. [37:20] The right to speak about in the same way [37:23] that you in the United States speak about democracy. [37:26] I in the same way speak about democracy because I believe in democracy. [37:31] And I think that it's not just that some [37:35] country be under blood, blood tyranny like Santo Domingo and another country. [37:43] That is an idea, not a fire, [37:47] not an intervention. I am against all kind of intervention [37:53] in the in the internal matter of other countries because we, [37:58] the Latin American country, were a long time struggling for the principle of no intervention. [38:05] When we come back, the costs of war are mounting. [38:08] Is President Trump preparing to send in ground troops? [38:11] Our panel is next. [38:18] Welcome back. The panel is here. [38:19] Courtney Kuby, NBC News, senior national security and Pentagon correspondent. [38:23] Jonathan Martin, politics bureau chief and senior political columnist for Politico, [38:28] former communications director for Vice President Harris, Ashley Etienne and Mike [38:32] Dubke, former Trump White House communications director. [38:35] Welcome to all of you. [38:37] Court, I have to start with you because you had new reporting this week that [38:41] President Trump is, in fact, considering potentially deploying ground troops into Iran. [38:46] And then you just heard Secretary Besant say all options are on the table. [38:49] Where do things stand? [38:50] Yeah, so basically right now we're in an escalate to de-escalate. [38:54] Or escalate to end the war situation. [38:55] The president weighing several options. [38:57] And they're kind of in three buckets right now. [38:58] The first one is addressing the most [39:00] immediate problem that we're hearing the most about, and that's the Strait of Hormuz. [39:03] The idea is the U.S. could send in the [39:06] military to a couple of small islands in the Persian Gulf, Abu Musa and the greater [39:10] and lesser tombs, and then a couple of ports in the region. [39:13] And the idea is the way that the Persian [39:16] Gulf is the depth, you have to send large ships through these islands. [39:20] Iran has put a ton of military equipment [39:22] on them. [39:23] And they have spotters. [39:24] The spotters alert the Iranian Navy. [39:26] Hey, the ship is coming here. [39:28] They send out these fast boats, their mosquito fleet, and they directly threaten [39:32] shipping coming through. The U.S. military could put troops there. [39:35] They could stop the mosquito fleet and ultimately it could help reopen the Strait [39:40] of Hormuz in conjunction with all of these military strikes we've seen. [39:44] The second one is the oil and gas, Karg Island, which we've heard a ton about, [39:47] including from the Treasury Secretary this morning. [39:50] The U.S. could send troops there. [39:51] They could not only cut off the oil and gas, but they could also cut off the oil and gas. [39:53] They could cut off the revenue stream for the regime by doing that. [39:55] But they could also then use that as [39:56] leverage if there were some sort of a peace negotiation. [39:59] And then the most dangerous option would [40:01] be to send U.S. troops for securing the highly enriched uranium. [40:04] And that would take the most troops. [40:05] You would need a huge perimeter of security. [40:08] And it would be a dangerous and difficult undertaking to get all those cylinders out. [40:12] Remember, the U.S. military struck those facilities. [40:15] It's not clear if they've been damaged. [40:17] There may be poisonous gas. [40:18] The one benefit to all of these options, which all carry tremendous [40:22] danger, by the way, is the fact that the U.S. has air superiority, [40:26] meaning they own the airspace. [40:27] That means when Iran would almost certainly try to unleash drones and missiles [40:32] and things, the U.S. could have some defenses against that. [40:34] One of the questions we're watching so closely that matters to Americans, [40:38] another one, the impact on consumers, J-Mart, of all of this. [40:41] Gas prices have been skyrocketing. [40:43] Energy prices have been skyrocketing. [40:45] I talked to Secretary Besson about that. [40:47] John Allen, our reporter this week, was out in Pennsylvania talking to voters. [40:51] Here's what one voter had to say. [40:53] Take a look. [40:54] If you could say something to President Trump and he was going to hear you right [40:58] now, what would it be? You're a worthless pile of s**t. [41:04] And you voted for him how many times? [41:06] Three times. That was my bad. [41:09] Apparently, I'm an idiot. [41:11] What do you think the White House thinks when they hear that? [41:14] Well, brevity is the soul of wit, as Shakespeare said. [41:16] And she was to the point, wasn't she? [41:18] She sure was. God love the American voter. [41:21] The White House is consumed with this issue. [41:24] They're consumed with the price [41:25] of gas with the daily gyrations of the market. [41:28] Look, there is nothing that impacts [41:30] the American voter like pulling into a gas station, looking up at those big [41:34] numbers and seeing a four as the first number and then, God forbid, seeing a five. [41:41] Gas prices have gone up a dollar or two, [41:43] according to our friend GasBuddy on Twitter in the last month. [41:47] We're now at four bucks a gallon nationwide. [41:49] If we get to five bucks a gallon in the next couple of weeks or next month, [41:53] it's going to be a crisis point for this White House. [41:55] That's why this president is gyrating on a daily or hourly basis about whether or [42:00] not to climb down from this war or to double down, because he is so himself, [42:06] Kristin, driven by the market every day and the gas prices every day, [42:10] because that's how he judges himself as a tool of his political success or failure. [42:15] What are the markets say? [42:16] And I think it's driving him crazy today. [42:18] Well, I mean, pick up on that point, Mike. [42:20] And the fact that, of course, the backdrop to all of this is the midterms. [42:24] You heard the Treasury secretary [42:25] say maybe it could be 50 days, maybe it could be longer or shorter. [42:29] But even if the war ends tomorrow, gas prices don't come down overnight. [42:32] How are Republicans watching all of this? [42:35] Well, I think you're absolutely right. [42:36] The White House is consumed by this and they should be. [42:40] Gas prices don't come down overnight, but they're probably they fluctuate more [42:44] than the price of eggs and milk and other other items. [42:47] So I do expect gas prices to come down. [42:49] But they need to be concerned about it because gas prices were the one thing [42:53] that this administration had. [42:55] They're going for it in terms of inflation. [42:58] So those prices will directly affect the midterms if they stay high. [43:02] The bigger concern I have with the midterms is if we don't look at affordability [43:08] and if this Congress doesn't get on the ball of making it easier for prices to [43:13] come down, mortgages to to come down, all of that, we're going to have a midterm [43:18] election without Donald Trump on the ballot, which has proven for Republicans [43:23] to be bad in 2018, 2022. [43:25] Possibly in 2026. [43:27] And so we're running into this bit of a buzzsaw and we're running full on with [43:31] gas prices at four bucks, five bucks, they'll come down. [43:34] But we need to get that under control. [43:36] Ashley, how do you see all of this playing out for Democrats? [43:39] I'm not sure that the gas prices are going to come down. [43:41] Iran is digging in its heels and I think the administration has underestimated [43:45] their resilience when it comes to this particular issue. [43:48] But when I was watching Senator Murphy, [43:50] one word that stuck out to me that Democrats need to hit home, which is this. [43:54] The incompetency. [43:56] The American people are watching as this war continues to escalate. [43:59] It starts to spread now, starting to spread all over the Middle East. [44:03] President Trump has opened Pandora's box [44:05] with no sort of clear appreciation for the risk that he's running. [44:08] We could have a situation like Iraq 2.0, [44:11] where we're spending billions of dollars losing lives for an unjustified war. [44:15] You got prices, as we've just said, [44:17] prices are going up from the gas pump to the grocery to groceries. [44:21] And the last thing I would say is is that, [44:24] you know, this message for Democrats has to be very simple and has to be kept very [44:28] simple, is that this administration thus far has been a disaster for the American [44:31] people, the American people are paying the price and this war is only going [44:35] to exacerbate their pain. Quick final zip around to all of you. [44:38] Court on my conversation with the deputy foreign minister of Cuba. [44:42] He was very defiant. [44:43] He said regime change off the table. [44:46] What are your sources telling you about how the Pentagon is watching? [44:48] Yeah, I mean, the military plans for everything. [44:51] Right. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are military plans for some sort of an [44:54] invasion of Cuba, but the reality is the new head of South Com said this week that [44:57] they are not actively planning or exercising for any kind of a ground invasion of Cuba. [45:01] And in fact, military officials, they say, look, the economy is struggling. [45:05] We just saw the electrical grid basically collapse. [45:07] They have this oil embargo, all of that. [45:10] And the continued protests, [45:12] the government there may fall without any kind of U.S. [45:14] military intervention. Well, Jay Mark, [45:16] the president has said the government is going to fall on its own. [45:20] But you talk about Cuba, Iran, Venezuela. [45:23] The president promised to get the U.S. [45:25] out of foreign forces, MAGA based a largely unified around him. [45:28] But can that last? [45:29] Well, it can last if gas prices do come down. [45:32] I think that that's the best marker as to [45:34] whether or not there's patience among the American voter, no matter their politics [45:37] on this. Look, I think it's very clear the president [45:41] is determined to find a long term legacy. [45:43] He thought he could do it with the Nobel Peace Prize. [45:46] The Scandinavians didn't want to give him that. [45:48] So he's choosing door B here, which is the Lindsey Graham door, which is we're going [45:52] to do regime change. [45:53] The world and it worked so well in Venezuela that he got emboldened and [45:57] thought, well, if I can do it in Caracas just like that, boy, [45:59] I can do it all over the world. [46:01] And it turns out Iran is different than Venezuela. [46:03] OK, I was very negative in my assessment of where Republicans are. [46:06] But I will say this at least they're not the Democrats. [46:09] So the Democrats with that. [46:11] Here we go. [46:13] I'll tell you what that means. [46:14] They they are underwater with their own popularity and job approval with their [46:19] with with with Democrats, so 42 percent of Democrats approved [46:23] 48 percent disapproved. [46:25] The Democratic Party against the Republican Party is underwater as well. [46:30] So the Democrats haven't proven that they have an agenda or a message that works. [46:35] And, you know, Republicans can hang their hat on that. [46:39] But here's what's working to our advantage. [46:40] NBC poll just recently showed that Democrats are up six points ahead of Republicans. [46:45] We flipped 28 seats thus far. [46:48] So the trend is headed in our direction. [46:50] The challenge, though, is you have no counter agenda. [46:53] To counter where this president is headed. [46:55] You know, it's the key with the issue in Iran and others is that this is an appeal [46:59] to independent voters. It's not a base vote appeal. [47:01] And that's who's going to flip these seats come the midterm election. [47:05] Great conversation, guys. Thank you. [47:07] That is all for today. Thank you for watching. [47:09] We will be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's meet the press. [47:31] We thank you for watching. [47:32] And remember, stay updated on breaking [47:34] news and top stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.