President Trump’s Influence Campaigns from Havana to Indiana - April 10 — Here's the Scoop

[0:00] The tone from the Cuban president is one of absolute defiance. [0:05] No, this country is not failing. [0:08] Yes, there are problems, but yes, we are preparing militarily if that's what's necessary. [0:14] President Diaz-Canel telling me he is willing to give his life for Cuba. [0:19] Hey, everybody, and welcome to Here's the Scoop from NBC News. [0:24] I'm Ryan Nobles, filling in for Yasmin Vesugian. [0:26] Today on the show, NBC News Meet the Press moderator Kristen Welker sat down for a network-exclusive interview with Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel amid mounting pressure from the Trump administration to implement change. [0:40] Is a deal between the U.S. and Cuba in reach? [0:44] Plus, another NBC News exclusive, the Trump administration is attempting to wield influence in local elections across the U.S., and we've got the voicemails to back it up. [0:53] Up first, though, Cuba's president, Miguel Diaz-Canel, has been running the country since 2018, the first leader not named Castro in more than 40 years. [1:04] And this week, he gave his first-ever U.S. broadcast interview to NBC News. [1:09] As we've spoken about before, the Trump administration has been ramping up pressure on Cuba and calling for a change in its government. [1:16] So how did the Cuban leader respond when confronted with the possibility of the country's future without him? [1:20] NBC News Meet the Press moderator Kristen Welker is just back from Havana, and she joins me now. [1:27] Hi, Kristen. [1:27] Hi, Ryan. It's great to be with you. [1:29] Thank you so much for having me to discuss this interview. [1:33] It was such an impressive get by you and your team at such an important time. [1:38] And NBC News has gotten rare access into Cuba. [1:41] This year, NBC News' correspondent George Solis sat down exclusively with Cuba's economics are. [1:46] Now you get this interview with Cuba's leader. [1:50] Should we interpret this as a change in the way that Cuba's communicating with the rest of the world? [1:55] I think that Cuba sees this moment as a potential turning point, in part because of all of the pressure that President Trump has put on Cuba. [2:05] The fact that President Trump has said Cuba could be next. [2:09] Of course, we've seen the president depose Venezuela's leader, take out the supreme leader of Iran. [2:16] And so this is an incredibly tense moment in Cuba. [2:20] I think they see a potential opening at the same time. [2:24] That is why I believe the president of Cuba decided to grant his first American television interview to discuss some of these pressing issues. [2:34] And it is clear, Ryan, this is a country on edge. [2:38] They are and they acknowledge that they're bracing for the possibility of a military attack by the United States. [2:43] They do not know what is going to come next. [2:46] So I think there is a sense of uncertainty and yet at the same time a sense and an awareness that, yes, something does need to change. [2:55] But the question is just how much and what specific changes is Cuba willing to make? [3:01] You point out the rhetoric from the White House and from President Trump himself. [3:05] He's called Cuba a failing nation. [3:08] He even said last month that there may be a friendly takeover or it may not be a friendly takeover. [3:13] How does the Cuban leader describe his relationship with the United States? [3:17] Is there a relationship with the United States? [3:20] Well, he does say that talks are underway. [3:22] And I pressed him on those very points that you're raising, Ryan. [3:27] And I asked him if he felt as though President Trump was right in casting Cuba as a failing nation. [3:35] And what I got, the sense that I got, the tone from the Cuban president is one of absolute defiance. [3:42] No, this country is not failing. [3:45] Yes, there are problems. [3:47] But yes, we are preparing militarily if that's what's necessary. [3:51] President Diaz-Canel telling me he is willing to give his life for Cuba if that's what it takes, Ryan. [3:57] So it gives you a sense of just how defiant they are. [4:02] Now, at the same time, you ask about the relationship. [4:06] President Diaz-Canel says that there are talks between the United States and Cuba that are underway. [4:12] And at the same time, acknowledged he has not spoken directly to Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who's, of course, the one who's leading these talks. [4:20] And that's been a theme with the Trump administration, right? [4:22] They say there are talks, but we don't often know who those talks are with, which is certainly the situation that we're dealing with in Iran. [4:30] The Trump administration, though, has called for a change in the administration. [4:36] And you asked the Cuban leader about that directly because he'd be the person that would be most impacted by that. [4:41] So let's just play a little bit of that clip. [4:43] Would you be willing to step down if it meant saving Cuba? [4:52] You are a very important journalist. [4:59] Have you ever asked that question to any other president in the world? [5:03] Because it's one of the conditions the United States is asking for. [5:06] Would you ever consider that? [5:08] Let me explain. [5:09] Have you asked that question to any other president in the world? [5:12] Have you asked that question to any other president in the world? [5:14] Could you ask that question to Trump? [5:17] I have very hard questions of President Trump. [5:22] Is that a question from you or is that coming from the State Department of the U.S. government? [5:27] My question is, because it's one of the things that we've heard the U.S. government talk about, that they want political change here in Cuba. [5:34] So my question for you, if they asked you, if they said this is one condition, would you step down? [5:39] Because of your honesty, I'm going to assume that you're asking that question because of those reasons. [5:46] In Cuba, the people who are in leadership position is not elected by the U.S. government. [5:55] And they don't have a mandate from the U.S. government. [5:57] Chris, that was fascinating. [5:59] The way he responded to you, he certainly seemed annoyed by it. [6:04] He wasn't annoyed with you, but he was annoyed with the premise, I think. [6:07] But it was a completely legitimate question. [6:09] And to your credit, you ask questions like this of American leaders and leaders all around the world on a regular basis. [6:16] What do you glean from that? [6:18] Why do you think he responded the way he did? [6:20] And were you surprised by that? [6:21] I was surprised in part, Ryan, because to put this into context, this came at the end of a 50-minute interview. [6:31] I had been rapped multiple times at the point that we were having this exchange. [6:37] And I kept pressing for more time. [6:40] I said, please, we've traveled all the way to Havana. [6:42] Just a few more questions. [6:43] Just a few more questions. [6:44] And this was sort of my final rap. [6:46] This was like the entire rooms trying to rap me at this point. [6:49] So I said, okay, final, final question. [6:52] I assumed he would answer it, and that would be that. [6:56] And the fact that he challenged me and bristled to that extent was something that I was not expecting. [7:02] But I do think it underscores that nothing gets under their skin more than this notion that the United States can tell the Cuban government [7:15] who should lead it or what it should be doing, how it should be governing, because that challenges the very idea of the sovereignty of the country. [7:26] And, of course, this is a country that has been living under an embargo from the United States for decades. [7:32] And, of course, the Trump administration since January just put an oil blockade on the country, [7:38] which is exacerbating the desperation in Cuba, the poverty in Cuba that exists. [7:45] Now, what is also exacerbating it, of course, the United States would say, is the communist government of Cuba. [7:50] And so a lot of our conversation focused on that. [7:54] Is it time for Cuba to change and to embrace capitalist measures, to free its political prisoners, to have a free press? [8:05] And he bristled at all of those questions, but none more than that question about whether he should step down, [8:12] because that's a question that really challenges, I think, from his perspective, the very heart of Cuba's sovereignty. [8:19] I mean, you mentioned this list of demands the U.S. has, the release of political prisoners, holding multi-party elections, a free press. [8:27] That seems to be the bare standard that the Trump administration is looking for before they make a deal. [8:33] But at the same time, President Trump keeps saying that a deal could be easily made. [8:36] From your sense being on the ground there, talking to these leaders, does that seem like an accurate assessment of what's happening here? [8:43] Could a deal be easily made? [8:45] It doesn't seem like a deal could be easily made. [8:47] Now, I asked President Diaz-Canel, do you think you can make a deal with the Trump administration? [8:52] He said, yes, if the conditions are right. [8:55] But it gets very complicated when you drill down on the details of this, Ryan. [9:01] And when I pressed him, what of that list that I just read to you, what do you think you can comply with? [9:08] He very quickly pivoted and changed the subject and made it clear that they were not going to, at least based on this conversation, they were not willing to even engage in that. [9:21] Yeah. [9:22] Well, that was incredible. [9:23] A really, really terrific interview. [9:25] Thank you, Ryan. [9:25] Very illuminating, but I can't just let you go. [9:28] You're too much of an expert on all things that are happening in this world. [9:31] And another huge deal being negotiated this weekend. [9:34] We know the vice president leading the U.S. delegation to Pakistan to discuss the ceasefire in Iran. [9:41] The vice president seemed optimistic. [9:43] He said things are going to be positive. [9:45] Where do we know about where things stand with these negotiations? [9:48] How fragile is this ceasefire? [9:52] And how are countries like Cuba going to be watching what happens in Islamabad? [9:56] Well, Cuba's watching every minute of this incredibly closely. [10:01] And they want to see, is this a distraction to President Trump or does President Trump decide to refocus on Cuba if Iran continues to be the complicated war, if it continues to pose challenges in terms of an exit strategy? [10:19] As you point out, the stakes could not be higher for the talks this weekend. [10:22] I think there's a lot of confusion about whether the ceasefire is holding. [10:26] Israel has continued to bombard, of course, Lebanon. [10:29] The White House is saying, well, that was never a part of the ceasefire in the first place. [10:34] But Iran is saying it was our understanding that it was a part of the ceasefire. [10:38] So there's this big back and forth over what the ceasefire should actually look like, what the terms are. [10:44] It gives you a sense of how challenging it is going to be for these two sides to get into a room and to try to negotiate some type of prolonged ceasefire. [10:56] Kristen, you are the absolute best. [10:57] Thank you so much for joining us. [10:58] Thanks so much for having me. [11:00] This is a great conversation. [11:01] You can catch Meet the Press on Sunday for her extended exclusive interview with the Cuban president, or you can watch it on meetthepress.com. [11:10] So picture this. [11:11] You decide to run for office, just a state office. [11:13] And then all of a sudden you're getting messages from your state's political party, the governor's office, and the White House. [11:21] And they're not wishing you luck. [11:22] In fact, they're telling you to back off. [11:25] That's what happened in Indiana earlier this year when the Trump administration tried to convince a state candidate to drop out of the race. [11:31] Our senior reporter, Jane C. Tim, has the story and some of those messages, and she's joining me now. [11:37] Hi, Jane. [11:38] Hey, Ryan. [11:38] I love state politics, but not everybody loves state politics. [11:42] And it's weird to think that the White House would be this invested in state politics on this granular level. [11:48] How did you first get wind of this story? [11:50] So I've been covering Indiana's redistricting, which was a huge story last year. [11:55] State lawmakers chose to reject the White House's calls to redraw their state congressional map. [12:00] It's a map that could have given Republicans two more seats in Congress. [12:05] The House wanted to do it, and the Senate said, no, we don't support that. [12:09] Our voters don't support that. [12:10] We're not going to vote for it. [12:11] It came down in this dramatic floor vote where they said, no, we're just not going to do it. [12:17] And the Republicans who voted against, who joined with Democrats to vote against redistricting, Trump said, we're going to primary all of you. [12:26] So Senator Greg Goode is one of those Republicans who voted against redistricting, and he has a challenger, Brenda Wilson, that Trump has endorsed and thrown his support behind. [12:36] They have a picture behind, you know, behind Resolute Desk. [12:39] His face is on every mailer. [12:41] There's TV ads that have been cut in her support. [12:43] But the White House is really worried about a different Wilson, Alexandra Wilson, who is a third candidate in that primary. [12:51] Alexandra Wilson is a 34-year-old network engineer. [12:54] She's not related to Brenda Wilson. [12:56] And she decided to run because she's worried about a renovation project that's happening to her local schools. [13:00] It's going to cost them. [13:01] Which is why most people run for state office, right? [13:04] Absolutely. [13:04] And people say it's hard to get people to run for office these days because politics is something no one likes. [13:10] But this is a person who said, you know, I'm really worried about that. [13:14] And, you know, hey, I'm going to get involved. [13:16] She contacted her local Republicans, said, I'd like to run. [13:20] They said, you'd be a great candidate. [13:22] She's a very conservative woman, pro-Trump 100%, as she says. [13:26] And then her phone blew up in a really big way. [13:31] Alexandra, this is Matt Brass, the White House political director. [13:34] You know, the White House, the lieutenant governor. [13:38] Would you get buzzed whenever you have a chance? [13:41] I know you filed to run for office and wanted to just pick your brain on a couple things. [13:46] The club for growth. [13:49] Club for growth. [13:50] If you have a minute, give me a call back. [13:52] I'd appreciate it. [13:53] Thanks. [13:54] The governor's office. [13:55] The White House again. [13:56] This is Marshall Moreau, White House office political affairs. [14:00] And to be clear, this is not the person that voted against redistricting. [14:04] This is someone that wasn't even involved in the redistricting fight, right? [14:08] But the White House and Brenda Wilson's allies, Brenda Wilson being the Trump-endorsed candidate, [14:12] they're worried about Alexandra Wilson, who, by alphabetical order, will come first on the ballot, [14:17] that she might confuse voters who remember the name Wilson but maybe don't remember which Wilson it was. [14:23] There was the idea is, essentially, that it's going to split the vote and Greg Good, the incumbent Republican, [14:30] might survive his primary simply because he has two challengers instead of one. [14:34] So you talked about her seeing the voicemail, the voicemail coming up. [14:39] It's coming from the White House. [14:40] She's reading the transcription. [14:41] Talk to me a little bit about what these phone calls were like, how much pressure was put on her. [14:45] Yeah, so Alexandra Wilson shared these phone calls with us exclusively, and she, you know, she didn't call back initially. [14:51] She was a little bit concerned. [14:53] She didn't know why all these people were calling her. [14:55] So she finally gets on the phone with one of these people from the White House. [14:59] They'd been texting, they'd called, and she gets on the phone, and they ask her a little bit about herself. [15:05] And they say, you know, would you consider actually taking a job in the administration instead of running for office? [15:13] Do you want to work for the Trump administration in Indiana? [15:16] We'll find you a job, and, you know, that's how you could serve your community instead of running. [15:21] I'm going to ask the point blank question here. [15:24] Is there a pathway to where you put some thought into your community? [15:34] And she makes it clear. [15:35] She's like, I have a career. [15:37] I like my job. [15:38] She says, you know, I'm pregnant. [15:39] I don't really want to change jobs. [15:41] And then the calls keep coming, and they come fast and furious. [15:46] I mean, there's one morning where she just gets, like, call after call, like three or four in a morning. [15:50] Later that night, she gets on the phone with James Blair, deputy White House chief of staff. [15:56] For our listeners that aren't familiar, one of the most powerful people in the White House, James Blair. [16:01] Absolutely. [16:01] And he says, you know, I'm on a plane with the secretary of state. [16:05] I'm flying to Germany right now, but I wanted to talk to you about this race. [16:09] But as I explained to Steve, like, if we go the three-way and there is no change, you know, I think this is going to be a really nasty race, candidly. [16:20] And while maybe the first call had been a little bit more sort of enticing or encouraging to do something else with her time, this call gets a little bit more, as she put it, threatening. [16:33] This call is about, you know, you have a record. [16:36] And so you've been arrested once. [16:38] Your husband was arrested a few years ago. [16:42] Yours was a long time ago. [16:44] How do you explain those to the public? [16:46] How do you sort of deal with that? [16:47] Because, of course, she'll get attacked on that. [16:49] She was arrested when she was 19. [16:53] He said, you know, your husband has a DUI. [16:56] Do you know that they're going to run ads on this? [16:58] They're going to send mailers on this? [17:00] Do you know how dirty and ugly politics can get? [17:04] He said, do you know how much money they're going to spend to defeat you? [17:07] Do you know what this is going to be like? [17:09] And I think we should be clear. [17:11] This isn't federal politics. [17:13] This isn't Washington, D.C. [17:14] This is a part-time state legislature. [17:16] You make $33,000 as a base salary in this job. [17:20] You know, when you go to this legislature, it's normal people who are just serving their communities. [17:25] And it seems as though, by the way you're telling this and the way you wrote your story, [17:29] that this pressure campaign, both the carrot and the stick that they offered her, backfired. [17:34] It actually made her more encouraged to run. [17:36] Is that fair to say? [17:37] Yeah, you know, I think it's been difficult for her campaign because, you know, there's also been a challenge against her, the eligibility for her to run. [17:45] But she basically said, you know, a weaker candidate might have folded, but it's not right that someone else should get to decide who gets to go on the ballot. [17:54] But she said, I'm a good candidate. [17:57] I'm just as qualified as anybody else to run for office. [18:01] And I shouldn't get told to step down, to step back, simply because someone in Washington has decided how this goes. [18:10] I have been accused of dirty tricks, political dirty tricks. [18:15] This is exactly what is a political dirty trick. [18:19] So did you talk to the White House about this? [18:21] Did they explain why they were so invested in this particular race and this particular candidate? [18:26] Yeah, you know, I called the White House because I was sort of fascinated by what's going on. [18:30] And I was really curious what they were going to say. [18:32] And they said, this is what the political office does. [18:35] They said, this president is intimately involved in races up and down the ballot. [18:40] But, you know, no matter how small or how big, he's really invested in it, that he's aware of all these races. [18:46] And they said, you know, he's the decision maker in these races. [18:49] So it's really important that he knows all of these things. [18:52] You know, Trump's endorsement means a lot in Republican politics. [18:55] And it's very important for him to know all these races, is what they said, which was fascinating to me because I've been reporting politics a really long time. [19:06] And I don't think I've ever heard about a local office being this important to the White House. [19:11] But there are examples of him, and not him specifically, but his office carrying out similar pressure campaigns, right? [19:19] I mean, we've seen how he's tried to put his thumb on the scale, particularly in other congressional races. [19:24] This seems to be a practice of this political office, not an exception. [19:28] Yeah, it's definitely, and it's, we should say, like, this happens in politics. [19:32] This is, it's not a Trump thing. [19:34] Right. [19:34] But it's clear that the president's interest in getting political revenge in Indiana means that he is pulling all the stops out, that he is really focused on affecting how this incumbent, how he fares in this midterm. [19:50] But I guess what's interesting about it, though, is that sometimes presidents or governors or executives at any level will get involved because of a specific policy goal they have in mind. [19:59] It seems sometimes these pressure campaigns on behalf of the Trump White House are more vendetta campaigns to punish people for not making the choices that they wanted them to make. [20:09] Yeah. Yeah. [20:09] I think that you, you can look at how the president is campaigning this year, how he is, where he is not campaigning this year. [20:16] I'm not hearing as much about open seats as I am hearing about Republican primaries where, where he believes that his agenda has been compromised by another Republican. [20:28] So what does that mean for the midterms? [20:29] I mean, that could hurt Republicans in a midterm where they need to win every seat and they really don't need competitive contests in seats that they would assume to be safe. [20:40] Right. [20:40] I mean, also simply these primaries are raking in big, huge bucks in Indiana. [20:47] Some six million dollars is being spent on unseating seven Republican candidates. [20:52] At a state level race. [20:54] In the state, the state primary for the legislature, in a deep red state. [21:00] And, you know, when I talk to Republicans there, they say, how does the president have time to think about this, to even care about this? [21:07] And why aren't we spending money to try and preserve our House majority, which is at risk? [21:12] Why are we fighting amongst ourselves, essentially? [21:15] And these races and what happened with redistricting in December has, has caused kind of like a civil war in Republican politics in Indiana. [21:24] This is enormous. [21:26] And the president is, is driving that. [21:29] Yeah. [21:29] Jane Tim, thanks for joining us. [21:31] Thank you. [21:31] And that's going to do it for us here at Here's the Scoop from NBC News. [21:35] I'm Ryan Obles, filling in for Yasmin Vesugian. [21:37] We'll be back on Monday with whatever the day may bring. [21:40] If you like what you heard, subscribe. [21:43] And you can also subscribe to our daily newsletter, The Inside Scoop. [21:46] It's a deeper dive on the main stories of the day that comes out every weeknight straight to your inbox. [21:51] You can sign up for The Inside Scoop as part of our paid subscription at NBCNews.com. [22:02] We thank you for watching. [22:03] And remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.