Marco Rubio says "the president always retains the optionality" to occupy Venezuela

[0:00] We begin today with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who joins us this morning from Miami. [0:05] Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary. Good morning. Good morning. President Trump said that the United [0:12] States will run the country and that Venezuela will be largely run by, he pointed to you and [0:18] some of the other cabinet members when he spoke to the public yesterday. He said the U.S. retains [0:24] all military options, including boots on the ground, until U.S. demands have been fully met. [0:30] How do you plan to run the country? Well, first of all, I think the important thing to point out is [0:38] that the key to what that regime relies on and is their economy fueled by oil. And right now it is [0:45] an oil industry that is backwards and really needs a lot of help and work in terms of it. Not only that, [0:51] but it doesn't help the people. None of the money from the oil gets to the people. It's all stolen [0:55] by the people that are on the top there. And so that's why we have a quarantine. There's a quarantine [0:59] right now in which sanctioned oil shipments. There's a boat and that boat is under U.S. [1:03] sanctions. We go get a court order. We will seize it. That remains in place. And that's a tremendous [1:08] amount of leverage that will continue to be in place until we see changes. Now, not just further [1:12] the national interest of the United States, which is number one, but also that lead to a better future [1:17] for the people of Venezuela. And so that's the sort of control the president is pointing to when he [1:22] says that. We continue with that quarantine. And we expect to see that there will be changes, [1:26] not just in the way the oil industry is run for the benefit of the people, but also so that they [1:31] stop the drug trafficking, so that we no longer have these gang problems, so that they kick the [1:35] FARC and the ELN out, and that they no longer cozy up to Hezbollah and Iran in our own hemisphere. [1:42] What you are talking about is more of a sanctions pressure, not boots on the ground. So just to be [1:48] clear, there is no plan for U.S. occupation of this country of nearly 30 million people. [1:53] Well, I think, first of all, the president always retains optionality on anything and on all of [2:00] these matters. He certainly has the ability and the right under the Constitution of the United [2:04] States to act against imminent and urgent threats against the country. That said, and all of that [2:09] said, right now, I think what you see as a force posture is one of the largest naval deployments [2:15] in modern history, certainly in the Western Hemisphere. And it is capable of stopping not just drug [2:20] boats, but stopping any of these sanctioned boats that come in and out and really paralyzing that [2:25] portion of how the regime, you know, generates revenue. So that will continue to be in place. [2:31] What the president has said, obviously, is, you know, and I think what he's pointing to is that [2:34] this obsession people have about boots and this or that, but he does not feel like he is going to [2:40] publicly, you know, rule out options that are available for the United States, even though that's not [2:45] what you're seeing right now. What you're seeing right now is an oil quarantine that allows us to [2:50] exert tremendous leverage over what happens next. Well, he also said the U.S. is ready to stage a [2:55] second and much larger attack if we need to do so. But I'm curious because you just described the [3:02] regime as still in place, essentially. I mean, I'm curious why the Trump administration decided to [3:09] leave it intact and only arrest Nicolas Maduro and his wife, the person who controls the police, [3:16] the chief thug, Diaz del Cabello. He's the interior minister. He's been indicted by the United States. [3:22] He was in that indictment. The administration released. He's a narco terrorist. There's a 25 [3:27] million dollar price on his head. He's still in place. The defense minister who has deep ties to [3:33] Russia. Fifteen million dollar price on his head. He is still in place. I'm confused. Are they still [3:40] wanted by the United States? Why didn't you arrest them if you are taking out the narco terrorist regime? [3:47] You're confused. I don't know why that's confusing. They're still in power. It's very simple. You're not [3:52] going to go in and wrap up. You're going to. But yeah, but you can't. You're going to go in and suck [3:56] up five people. They're already complaining about this one operation. Imagine the howls we would have [4:01] from everybody else if we actually had to go and stay there four days to capture four other people. [4:06] We got the top priority. The number one person on the list was the guy who claimed to be the [4:11] president of the country that he was not. And he was arrested along with his wife who was also [4:15] indicted. And that was a pretty sophisticated and frankly complicated operation. It was. It is not [4:20] easy to land helicopters in the middle of the largest military base in the country. The guy lived on a [4:25] military base. Land within three minutes, kick down his door, grab him, put him in handcuffs, read him his [4:31] rights, put him in a helicopter and leave the country without losing any American or any American [4:35] assets. That's not an easy mission. And you're asking me, why didn't we do that in five other places at the [4:40] same time? I mean, that's absurd. I do think this is one of the most, you know, daring, you know, complicated, [4:48] sophisticated missions this country has carried out in a very long time. Tremendous credit to the U.S. [4:53] military personnel who did it. It was unbelievable and tremendous success. And today, an indicted drug [4:59] trafficker who was not the legitimate president of Venezuela, who we don't recognize. The Biden [5:04] administration didn't recognize. Sixty-something countries don't recognize. The European Union [5:08] doesn't recognize. And many countries in Latin America don't recognize. He was a convicted. He was [5:13] a indicted drug trafficker. He was arrested. His wife was arrested. Right. But the others who are also [5:19] indicted are still in place. So that's the point of my questioning there. But you talked about not [5:28] being the legitimate president. So you wanted us to land in five other military bases? No, I'm asking why you [5:33] chose that this was the limit of the military operation. But to your point that you just made, that Maduro [5:40] was not the legitimate president. He was the guy who was claiming to be the president. Right. Well, the [5:45] opposition... He was the top target. Okay. The opposition leader, Maria Karina Machado and Mundo [5:50] Gonzalez won that 2024 election by your own account. They were some of the first people [5:56] you called when you were secretary of state. You said Edmundo Gonzalez is the rightful president of [6:01] Venezuela. Is that still the U.S. policy? And if so, are you working on a transition to have those [6:09] elected leaders run the country? Well, I think a couple of things. I have tremendous admiration for [6:16] Maria Karina Machado. I have admiration for Edmundo. We have all those views about what the election [6:21] that happened the last time. And not only us, but many other countries around the world. [6:25] There's that. But there's the mission we are on right now. We have been very clear from the [6:29] beginning. Because I still think that a lot of people analyze everything that happens in foreign [6:33] policy through the lens of what happened from 2001 to 2015 or 16. The whole foreign policy apparatus [6:41] thinks everything is Libya, everything is Iraq, everything is Afghanistan. This is not the Middle East. [6:47] And our mission here is very different. This is the Western Hemisphere. Within the Western [6:50] atmosphere, we have a country, potentially a very rich country, that has cozied itself up under the [6:56] control of this regime, has cozied up to Iran, has cozied up to Hezbollah, has allowed narco-trafficking [7:03] gangs to operate with impunity from their own territory, allows boats with drugs to traffic from [7:08] their territory. And we are addressing that. And by the way, eight, nine million people in the largest [7:13] mass migration event in modern history have left that country since 2014. [7:16] That regime is still having an impact on us. That is what we are addressing now. [7:20] When you spoke yesterday... [7:22] Well, again, we're not just addressing the regime. We are addressing the factors that are a threat to [7:25] the national interest of the United States. [7:27] Understood. You spoke with Delce Rodriguez, who is now, according to President Trump, sworn in as the [7:32] president, as the leader of Venezuela. Did she promise you that she is expelling all those American [7:40] adversaries from Venezuelan territory? What exactly did she agree to do when she spoke to you? [7:45] We are going to... Our objectives when it comes to how Venezuela impacts the national interest of the [7:53] United States have not changed. And we want those addressed. We want drug trafficking to stop. We want no [7:58] more gang members to come our way. We don't want to see the Iranian and, by the way, Cuban presence in the [8:03] past. We want the oil industry in that country not to go to the benefit of pirates and adversaries of the [8:08] United States, but for the benefit of the people. We want to see all of that happen. We insist on seeing that [8:13] happen. And we are going to work to continue to see that happen. Well, right now, we are going to see [8:19] what happens moving forward. Let me just say that. I'm not obviously going to have these [8:22] conversations in the media. These are delicate and complicated things that require mature [8:27] statesmanship, and that's what we intend to do. But our goals remain the same. The difference is [8:32] that the person who was in charge, even though not legitimately, in the past was someone you could not [8:37] work with. We just could not work with him. He is not a person that had ever kept any of the deals he [8:42] made, broke every deal he ever made, made a fool out of the Biden administration on the deal they [8:47] made with him. And we offered him on multiple occasions an opportunity to remove himself from [8:53] the scene in a positive way. He chose not to do so. But his number two is now running the country. [8:57] His number two is someone you can work with. And is that what you're implying here? And did she tell [9:03] you that she will transition to democracy? And the woman who won the election, along with her [9:09] partner there, Maria Karina Machado? We are going to make we are going to make our assessments of [9:16] people. You're asking me to make an assessment. We're going to make an assessment on the basis of [9:20] what they do, not what they say publicly in the interim, not what, you know, some what they've done [9:25] in the past in many cases, but what they do moving forward. So we're going to find out. You're asking me [9:30] why do I know what decisions people are going to make? I don't. I do know this, that if they don't make [9:35] the right decisions, the United States will retain multiple levers of leverage to ensure that our [9:41] interests are protected. Yeah. And that includes the oil quarantine that's in place, among other [9:45] things. Well, so we but we are going to judge moving forward. We're going to judge everything [9:49] by what they do. And we're going to see what they do. OK, because yesterday, President Trump said [9:54] Maria Karina Machado doesn't have the support or respect within the country. And by your own [9:59] admission, she walloped Nicolas Maduro in the last election. So it does sound like a decision was [10:05] made. She wasn't on the ballot in the last election. No, but her party was. [10:11] Edmundo was. Yes. Correct. So it was an illegitimate election. And that's why he's not a [10:15] legitimate president. Right. But is there agreement to transition to democracy? It sounds like there's [10:19] not. I think what the president pointed out is the obvious. Well, I think what the point, but [10:24] there's have to be a little realism here. OK, a transition to the mark. They've had this regime. [10:28] They've had the system of Chavismo in place for 15 or 16 years. And everyone's asking why 24 hours [10:34] after Nicolas Maduro was arrested, there isn't an election scheduled for tomorrow. [10:38] No, no. I'm asking what you talked about with her. These things take time. There's a process. [10:42] Right. And you are. I'm not going to have I'm not going to publicly get into details about any [10:46] of those things other than to tell you that our expectations remain the same. And we are going [10:50] to judge whoever we're interacting with moving forward by whether or not those conditions are [10:55] met. We want. Of course, we want to see Venezuela transition to be a place completely different [10:59] than what it looks like today. But obviously, we don't have the expectation that's going to happen [11:03] in the next 15 hours. What we do have an expectation is that that it move in that direction. We think [11:09] it's in our national interest and frankly, in the interest of people of Venezuela. [11:12] The president used the word oil 20 times in his press conference. You talked about these [11:16] tremendous oil assets that that Venezuela have has. But the president's last envoy to Venezuela, [11:23] Elliott Abrams, is publicly arguing that, you know, better than the policy you're backing. He said, [11:30] quote, Venezuelan plutocrats or U.S. oil executives seem to be coming to Mar-a-Lago and whispering [11:35] about how easy life would be if we just made a deal with the regime once Maduro was gone. [11:42] Is that what happened here? [11:47] No, that's not what happened here. What happened here is that we arrested a narco trafficker [11:51] who's now going to stand trial in the United States for the crimes he's committed against [11:55] our people for 15 years. And the person who helped him, of course, his wife, who was co-located [11:59] with him. So she was arrested as well. That's what happened here. As far as oil, look, oil is [12:04] critical, not just to fueling economies all over the world. It's critical to Venezuela's future. [12:09] Their oil industry is completely destroyed. It's destroyed all those oil fields that used to [12:13] produce a lot and wealth for their country and their people. Those things are decrepit. They're [12:17] bankrupt. They need to be reinvested in. It's obvious. They do not have the capability to bring up [12:23] that industry again. They need investment from private companies who are only going to invest under [12:27] certain guarantees and conditions. That has to go to the benefit of the Venezuelan people. [12:32] Right now, all of that wealth is stolen. It's stolen and it goes into the hands of oligarchs [12:37] around the world and the oligarchs inside of Venezuela. A handful of people benefit from it. [12:41] The people don't benefit from it. On top of that, it's very simple. In the 21st century under the [12:47] Trump administration, we are not going to have a country like Venezuela in our own hemisphere, [12:52] in the sphere of control and the crossroads for Hezbollah, for Iran, and for every other malign [12:57] influence in the world. That's just not going to exist. [13:00] Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, would love to keep talking to you, but I'm told [13:04] you are out of time. I have to leave it there. [13:06] Thank you.