Lindsay Clancy’s Nurse Drops Big Bombshell

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: It increased the end of tripling. [00:00:05] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:00:06] Speaker 1: That pushed her over the edge, didn't it? [00:00:09] Speaker ?: I don't think so. [00:00:11] Speaker 2: Jennifer Tufts was treating Lindsay Clancy the day before Lindsay strangled her three young children to death and then exited a second floor window of their home, leaving herself paralyzed from the waist down. Now, Lindsay is on trial for triple murder, but is pointing the finger at her mental illness and Dr. Tufts. Meanwhile, Lindsay's now ex-husband, the father of the three children, also believes Lindsay is not criminally responsible for killing their children. [00:00:43] Speaker 3: That was really where her big spiral started. She started to lose a lot of weight and she became very depressed. And she was having a really hard time. Yeah, she started to say she was suicidal. [00:00:58] Speaker 2: It's the trial that the nation is watching, a case that has divided the community as to what should happen to Lindsay Clancy. Should she go to prison or should she be put in a mental health facility? [00:01:09] Rebecca Gelata: I discussed with her and her husband the possibility of potentially an underlying bipolar disorder. [00:01:16] Speaker 2: And today, more compelling testimony connected to the weeks, days, and hours before the horrific killings as a jury tries to figure out why Lindsay Clancy did it. Lindsay Clancy was absolutely seeking help. But one of the issues in this case is, what was her condition? What was her actual mental illness? And was the treatment helping her or making it worse? I'm Vinnie Politan. Let's investigate. I want to begin not by speaking about Lindsay Clancy, but speaking about her former husband, Patrick, the victim's father. And his role in all of this is really quite unique. Because on the one hand, immediately after all this happened, he forgave his wife at the time and asked the world to forgive her. So clearly, he doesn't believe that this is a criminal case that should have been brought. He believes that this is a case involving prosecutors going after someone with mental illness, his former wife. But something else has happened here now with Patrick Clancy. It's this level of internet skepticism towards him. Not that he's not a victim in all this, but he's the actual killer. Like, he's being accused of framing his wife for this on the internet for many reasons, including his shoes. But when we get back to what's happening inside the courtroom, not what's happening online and all that chatter, I mean, both sides agree here that Lindsay Clancy is the one who is responsible for taking the lives of those three children. And when I say the victim, what the defense is talking about is being a victim of mental illness, a victim of improper treatment, a victim of the wrong medications, which made her condition even worse. So that's what this jury has to figure out. Is she evil or is she the victim? And one of the issues that the defense has brought up is bipolar disorder. And they have claimed in this trial that she was misdiagnosed or undiagnosed as being bipolar and was given medicine. That is the exact opposite of what of how you would treat someone with bipolar medicine that would make it even worse. So as you watch this testimony, this section becomes very important. This is one of the nurse practitioners who treated Lindsay Clancy. Her name is Rebecca Gelata. And in this part of her testimony, she's talking about bipolar. She's talking about Patrick. She's talking about Lindsay. Let's take a listen. [00:04:31] Speaker 5: When you met with Lindsay and Patrick on December 6th, did she or did they report why Patrick was there? [00:04:49] Rebecca Gelata: I don't recall if they indicated why he was there. I understood it to mean he was there to provide collateral and support for her. [00:04:59] Speaker 5: Were you aware that he was coming to the appointment? [00:05:03] Rebecca Gelata: I don't recall if I was aware beforehand or not. [00:05:06] Speaker 5: And you had engaged in a pretty significant my chart back and forth with her in the days preceding this, this meeting on December 6th, right? Yes. Did she ever indicate to you? Did she ever indicate to you in those messages that she wished to bring him along to one of the visits? [00:05:31] Rebecca Gelata: No. [00:05:33] Speaker 5: And fair to say when a person brings a collateral and is willing to have somebody speak, you're more than happy to get that information? Absolutely. This person, this collateral person, can they offer you a different perspective about the patient and what they're going through or what they're, how they're presenting? Yes. In this December 6th meeting or the visit, did she report to you some changes in her sleep or significant concern for sleep? [00:06:14] Rebecca Gelata: I would have to review the note. What I remember is that the sleep really hadn't improved much beyond getting a few hours, waking up in the middle of the night, maybe piecing together more time. [00:06:29] Speaker 5: And fair to say there was some conversation to go back and talk about when symptoms started and try to get to kind of the root cause or what they believe the root cause of her symptoms were. Yes. And did Lindsay and Patrick report to you the connection with Zoloft medication in September as a concern? Yes. And that they reported that, or she reported, that exact night I took, went from 25 to 50 milligrams, I didn't sleep for 48 hours, and I wasn't tired. Correct. So that's in your note as a quote, meaning that's directly what she told you? Yes. Okay. Did you express to Ms. Clancy thoughts that you had about her diagnosis based on your interactions over the last few weeks? [00:07:24] Rebecca Gelata: I did. And what was that? I discussed with her and her husband the possibility of potentially an underlying bipolar disorder. I based this on several factors, one of them being that she had such what we call an activating response to the Zoloft. It's unusual for somebody to describe taking Zoloft and then going 48 hours without sleep and not being tired. So that raised my clinical suspicion a bit. And she had been, I would say, having difficulty tolerating other antidepressant medications that we had been trying to have her take since then. And so again, I'm wondering if it's because potentially there might be an underlying, what we call mood disorder, bipolar disorder. [00:08:27] Speaker 5: And as far as the information that you had about her past psychiatric history, were there any indicators to you about manic episodes? [00:08:49] Rebecca Gelata: No. So I do recall in reviewing Julie's note prior to meeting with Lindsay, she filled out what we call a mood disorder questionnaire. It's like a screener somebody can do to assess history of mania and bipolar disorder. Lindsay had, it was a negative screen. So there's three questions. One question has 13 different symptoms. You have to score seven out of 13 on question one, but also in question two, it asks about are the symptoms happening at the same period of time? And then it asks about any functional impairment from the symptoms. So she, I recall the three symptoms she did endorse were not sleeping for that period of time with the Zoloft and not feeling tired, having racing thoughts and trouble concentrating. None of the other symptoms did she endorse. They did occur at the same period of time. And I don't want to be inaccurate because I can't remember what she said for functional impairment. But I believe it was minor impairment. [00:10:05] Speaker 5: When you explained this to them, your thoughts about her reactions to the medication and these reported prior symptoms, did Patrick and Lindsay seem receptive to your diagnosis? [00:10:18] Rebecca Gelata: I recall Patrick saying my wife is not bipolar. Lindsay looked at me. She did not, she did not say anything. [00:10:27] Speaker 5: What did the defendant, what did Lindsay Clancy express to you as far as Seroquel? Did she want to continue with that? No. Did she explain why? [00:10:38] Rebecca Gelata: So she felt like when she took Remron and Seroquel together, she felt weighed down and exhausted, but her mind was still awake and alert. And she just didn't seem to think there was a benefit to being on it. [00:10:57] Speaker 5: And so did she express to you a desire to want to go back to trialing Prozac? [00:11:04] Rebecca Gelata: Both Lindsay and her husband expressed that that was their preference. [00:11:10] Speaker 5: And was that something that you agreed with? [00:11:14] Rebecca Gelata: I did. I had shared with them that I had concerns this could be bipolar. It's in my differential diagnosis, which is just all the typical diagnoses we might be considering. And that typically SSRIs are contraindicated, but she did have that history of being able to tolerate Prozac at 20 milligrams and do okay with no mania. So I thought that's what they were wanting to do. So we could do it. We could try it. [00:11:49] Speaker 5: When you say contraindication. Okay. Sorry. Does that mean? [00:11:55] Rebecca Gelata: It means typically not something you would want to do if you were sure somebody had bipolar disorder, because if you put somebody on just an SSRI or like Prozac, like Zoloft, it can create a scenario where people are flipping back and forth between manic symptoms and depressed symptoms or they're called rapid cycling. It's not that antidepressants or SSRIs are never prescribed in bipolar disorder, but you often would want to have a mood stabilizer on board at the same time. Hold on a minute. [00:12:34] Speaker 2: And this plays right into the defense. Right? This is what they're saying. They're saying she had bipolar. She's given Zoloft, which is what you're not supposed to do. And here we have this nurse practitioner who seems to be cognizant of that fact. Obviously, number one. Number two is curious about what the diagnosis actually is. And all of this plays to the benefit, I believe right now, to the defense. But let's watch some more. [00:13:05] Speaker 5: Despite your suspicions, you listened to the patient and went along with her request. Yes. So at the conclusion of that meeting, did you indicate that she could discontinue the Seroquel at that point? Yes. With the plan that she was going to restart Prozac? Yes. So on December 7th at 9:48 a.m., she sends a message saying, "Hi, Rebecca. Last night did not go well at all. I took the Valium and melatonin and only slept from 9:00 to 1:00. Then around 2:00, I got desperate and took 25 milligrams of Benadryl and only slept about one more hour. What can I do? I really need help." So that was the message that you came into on December 7th, right? Yes. And did you respond to her in the messaging app? [00:13:58] Rebecca Gelata: I did. [00:13:59] Speaker 5: And what was the response? [00:14:02] Rebecca Gelata: I'm trying to find the sequence. Yeah. [00:14:08] Speaker 5: 10:19 a.m. Then it gets cut off. [00:14:19] Rebecca Gelata: Okay. So I discussed-- I mentioned, so your husband made a good point yesterday. Despite taking the Ativan in the evening, you were still only able to get a five-hour stretch of sleep, which, yes, is improvement, but does sort of dispel the notion that benzodiazepines are the only thing that are helping you sleep right now, as you are still getting less than the target of six to eight hours with Ativan, and the Valium did not help for sleep much at all. My next step in this case is to try a higher dose of Seroquel on its own. Are you feeling any subsequent loss of energy, exhaustion, fatigue, with lack of sleep? [00:14:55] Speaker 5: Why would it be the next step to increase from 75 of Seroquel to 100? [00:15:02] Rebecca Gelata: So she had been taking 50. So I was suggesting 75 to 100 would be my next step because, again, bipolar is still on my deferentials, and now I have the data that she only slept two hours. So I asked her the follow-up question, are you feeling tired or, you know, are you feeling exhausted? Any subsequent loss of energy, it's still in the back of my mind that this could be bipolar. [00:15:32] Speaker 5: So as far as the Seroquel goes at that point, creeping up the dosage, do you get now from using it to treat insomnia to using it to treat something else like bipolar? Correct. And so that piece of it about feeling subsequent loss of energy and exhaustion, fatigue, why ask that? [00:15:53] Rebecca Gelata: Patients can have insomnia because they're anxious or because they're depressed, but typically they're exhausted or they're tired the next day, and it really does affect them. If a patient has an underlying bipolar, they could go on two hours of sleep and not feel tired at all, and that's unusual. [00:16:14] Speaker 5: And so that is one of the signs, potentially, of a manic episode? [00:16:18] Rebecca Gelata: Potentially, yes. [00:16:20] Speaker 5: So on December 7th at 10:33, she responds, no, the weird thing is I don't feel tired at all. And she says, so just Seroquel tonight? I feel like I'm going to panic without a benzo with it. And then again at 11:44, another message, would I be able to do the Valium with Seroquel? Is that a safe option? So again, in this exchange with her in my chart, she's asking you questions to clarify what you've said and also alternatives to address the issue, right? Right. And as far as her questions go and then her response about not feeling tired, how did you respond in the message? [00:17:05] Rebecca Gelata: So she kind of sent those in succession so that I don't feel tired, would I be able to do the Valium with the Seroquel? So I respond by, if you're not sleeping well with the Valium alone, there's no need to continue it. And I will prescribe a short taper to get you off benzos altogether because you are not tired at all and had a significant reaction to Zoloft at 50 milligrams. I'm concerned this is an underlying mood and bipolar disorder. I know you and your husband did not necessarily agree with that, but I feel that I'm going to send along this information to review. So I sent her a list of symptoms of bipolar risk factors so that she could have it to refer to. [00:17:49] Speaker 5: And again, at this point, the only symptom she was reporting of mania was this not being able to sleep and not feeling tired, right? [00:17:59] Rebecca Gelata: And yes, the racing thoughts and the trouble concentrating. [00:18:07] Speaker 5: Okay. Is that things that she had reported to you in your visit on the 6th? No. Okay. In these messages that she was sending to you on December 7th, she didn't talk about racing thoughts, did she? [00:18:24] Rebecca Gelata: No. [00:18:25] Speaker 5: Okay. She was talking about the sleep. [00:18:27] Rebecca Gelata: Mm-hmm. [00:18:28] Speaker 5: Okay. But based on a review of her history, she had at one point indicated that she was feeling those in relation to a symptom she was describing. Is that correct? Correct. So at this point, what do you recommend her to do? [00:18:44] Rebecca Gelata: I explained the importance of knowing if this is bipolar is significant because SSRIs like Soloft and even Prozac would be contraindicated. My recommendation is to do 100 milligrams of Seroquel tonight, 200 milligrams of Seroquel tomorrow night, 300 milligrams on 12-9, 400 on 12-10, and we will hold there. I actually say hold the Prozac as I'm concerned. This is a hypomanic, mixed manic state. All right. [00:19:13] Speaker 2: What you're hearing from the prosecutors trying to minimize this whole issue of bipolar because it's part of the defense case. But she keeps saying it, and the bottom line is the jury is hearing it. So I want to take a moment to tell you about something really exciting here at Law & Crime. If you haven't heard yet, we have the Law & Crime Plus app, and it's a total game changer. First off, you get all of your favorite shows from both Law & Crime and, of course, Court TV, and they're all ad-free. But what I'm most excited to share with you is a feature called Case Files. This is where we give you a deep dive into the biggest cases in true crime. You get access to the actual evidence, including body cam video, 9-1-1 calls, crime scene photos, trial footage, and so much more. You really get to explore the evidence like never before. Because we want all of you to check it out, we're giving our viewers a free one-month trial. Just head over to lawandcrimeplus.com and enter the promo code VPI and start your free trial today. So one of the questions for this jury is going to be, was she bipolar? Was it postpartum psychosis? Was it just generalized anxiety disorder? Got to get to the bottom of all of this. That's what the jury's got to try to figure out. So let's take a listen to more of the direct examination of Rebecca Gelata, the nurse practitioner, who seemed to dive a little deeper than Dr. Tufts did in trying to figure out what was going on with Lindsey Clancy. [00:20:53] Speaker 5: And so when you saw her in this virtual visit on December 13th, was she reporting improvement in her sleep? Yes. And how was she sleeping during that time period? [00:21:08] Rebecca Gelata: Seven to nine hours. [00:21:10] Speaker 5: Okay. And that was holding at 200 on the Seroquel? Correct. And was she taking anything else daily? [00:21:19] Rebecca Gelata: Valium, 2.5 just once daily at night. Okay. [00:21:23] Speaker 5: And while she reported sleeping better, she still had significant symptoms of depression, right? Correct. And what were the symptoms she articulated? [00:21:34] Rebecca Gelata: Hopelessness and, again, anhedonia, that feeling no pleasure, feeling numb. Okay. [00:21:41] Speaker 5: And she also kind of complained of that racing heartbeat, and that's tachycardia, right? [00:21:50] Rebecca Gelata: Yep, the orthostatic tachycardia. So I recommended holding a bit longer at 200 milligrams. At this juncture, she had been on 200 milligrams for four nights. I wanted to continue it for a full seven nights. And then we were still discussing whether to taper benzos, and our plan was to kind of slowly phase them out at that point. So we were going to decrease from 2.5 milligrams daily to 2 milligrams for seven days, and then we were going to reassess it our next visit in a week. [00:22:22] Speaker 5: So December 15th at 3:53 p.m., you have a phone call with them. And what do they report to you in this phone call? What does Lindsay report? [00:22:32] Rebecca Gelata: They inform this has been the worst day for Lindsay, is having persistent intrusive thoughts of suicide. No active plan. But both Lindsay and Patrick agree that higher level of care may be necessary at this time. Lindsay has discussed options. They state they are likely to go to MGHED as they have perinatal psychiatry as well as an inpatient psychiatric unit. Lindsay also deciding about McLean. This writer advised that they keep us posted and sign a ROI release of information so that we can communicate with treatment providers at higher level of care. Lindsay verbalized understanding and agreement. [00:23:06] Speaker 5: On December 16th at 12:50 that she, after visiting the ER yesterday, I opted to remain outpatient and pursue the partial program at Women and Infants. And Women and Infants, that had been the program that you had previously recommended in Rhode Island, correct? Correct. She indicates I'm waiting on a call back for them to schedule. In the meantime, I want to know how to proceed with my meds. Do you still recommend the two milligrams of Valium and 200 of Seroquel Nightly? Again, it's making me sleep well, but I'm not, but still not improving my mood. So I will need a refill on those meds. Please let me know. I said, "Hi, Lindsay. [00:23:43] Rebecca Gelata: I know Leticia may have called you yesterday about information about women and infants, so I hope you were able to connect with her. Target dose for Seroquel treating depression is 300 milligrams, so we can increase it to 300 milligrams if you are willing. Yes, continue the Valium. Let me know what you think." [00:24:03] Speaker 5: In her messages later in the day at approximately 2:11 PM, she indicates I spoke with my original psychiatrist after my ER visit, and she recommended adding 25 milligrams of Lamectal to stabilize my mood. Is that something you would agree with? Had you ever talked with her about Lamectal before? No. Is it a drug that you kind of commonly recommend for people? I do. And was it something that you thought could be a good fit for this patient? Yes. Okay. But as far as now what you know to be the medications that she's been advised to take, what are they at this point in September 16th? [00:24:44] Rebecca Gelata: Lamotrigine, 25 milligrams. Seroquel, 300 milligrams. And Valium, 2 milligrams. [00:24:51] Speaker 5: And the Valium, is that still a daily recommendation? Yes. Does she indicate to you in that message that she is starting women and infants partial hospitalization tomorrow, meaning the 20th? Yes. And that she's concerned because she has an appointment scheduled with you already and she's asking what she should do about that, correct? Correct. And what was your response to her? [00:25:15] Rebecca Gelata: So she has an appointment but should be in the program. Should I call and cancel or reschedule because she thought the program would be starting her medication? I said, I'm so glad you were able to get into the program this week. That's great. So feel free to call and reschedule. The only issue is that I am on vacation next week, so it might be two weeks out that we touch base again. If that's okay with you, let me know what you think. [00:25:36] Speaker 5: Okay. And her response at 124, that says, I think since I'll be followed by women and infants, that two weeks out will be okay. My only concern is potentially needing more Valium before that. I'm trying my best not to take it at night, but have still been taking two milligrams every other night. Can we refill that just in case I continue to need it? Do you recall receiving a message on December 20th via my chart from Lindsay? I do. And she reported to you that she had been discharged from women and infants that day, correct? [00:26:12] Rebecca Gelata: Correct. [00:26:13] Speaker 5: And that they recommended she find help getting off the Seroquel and that she was indicating that she'd like to taper the Seroquel? Yes. Did you respond that day or the next day? [00:26:27] Rebecca Gelata: The next day. Okay. [00:26:30] Speaker 5: And what were your thoughts about her report that she was discharged and the recommendation for tapering the Seroquel, or getting off the Seroquel, I should say? [00:26:51] Rebecca Gelata: I'm not opposed to that. However, I'm concerned she discharged you as I do feel you could benefit from the groups and added support separate even from medication changes. In fact, if we're not going the medication route, I think groups and therapy are the treatment needed. As I feel the intrusive thoughts you've been having are nonetheless concerning and I know they've caused you considerable distress. I'm also on vacation next week, so I'm hesitant to start a taper when I am not available to you for questions and concerns. Again, I'm open to starting a taper, but I want to be available to you as it happens. You mentioned you are connected to your previous psychiatrist. Would that be someone to consult as well? Yes. I asked my nurse to call to, again, go over the risks of tapering, which could include worsening of mood, worsening of sleep, verify that this was really something she wanted to move forward with, remind her that I wouldn't be there. Okay. [00:27:47] Speaker 5: And on December 21st, 2022 at 4:26 PM, you respond to her in the MyChart message, right? Right. And you had expressed reluctance for the taper, but ultimately did you provide her a plan for taper? Right. [00:28:05] Rebecca Gelata: I said, I know Nicole reached out to you and she relayed that you would like to proceed with the taper. I'm sending as 100 milligram tablets, 200 milligrams, two tablets for four nights, 100 milligrams, one tablet for four nights, 50 milligram taps, half tablets, times four nights, then off. Let me know if any issues. [00:28:22] Speaker 5: And is that a standard or slow taper off of Seroquel being at a 300 milligram dose? [00:28:34] Rebecca Gelata: Considering the fact that she had only been taking it for a few weeks, yes. If she had been on it for months, I would have done a slower taper. [00:28:40] Speaker 5: As far as the perinatal behavioral health clinic at South Shore, you're aware that on December 30th, Patrick Clancy called in about his wife. Correct. And that he spoke to a nurse, Katrina Melanson. Yes. And the record reflects that he reported that she was safe, right? But she'd like to go to McLean. I do recall that. And he was advised to take her directly to the emergency department. You can't just go there to McLean, right? Right. In your experience? [00:29:18] Rebecca Gelata: In my experience. [00:29:19] Speaker 5: And that he said he didn't want to waste a day in the ED. Is that your recollection of the record? [00:29:25] Rebecca Gelata: That is my recollection of the record. [00:29:27] Speaker 5: And that he was looking just to get the bed that was offered the last time on December 15th? Yes. And it's fair to say that that's not how the process works? [00:29:39] Rebecca Gelata: They do not hold beds for that length of time. Okay. [00:29:44] Speaker 5: And so then he was advised to take her to the emergency department or call 911? Correct. And was that the last contact that the South Shore Perinatal Behavioral Health Clinic had with Lindsey Clancy? Yes. [00:29:58] Speaker 2: And she goes to McLean, she gets out in a few days, and then Nurse Gelata is not treating her anymore. So her treatment ends. But what's significant about her treatment again, is this discussion about what exactly is going on with her? What is she really suffering from? Are we getting it right? And that plays, all of that plays right into the hands of the defense. All right, so let's get into the cross-examination now of Rebecca Gelata, the nurse practitioner who treated Lindsey Clancy. Her direct, I thought, was kind of helpful for the defense. So let's see how much further the defense takes some of this testimony and takes some of the observations and analysis that's being done by Nurse Gelata. [00:30:46] Speaker 1: "Did you talk to Tufts?" [00:30:49] Rebecca Gelata: "No." [00:30:50] Speaker 1: "Did you ever get access to Tufts medical records?" [00:30:52] Rebecca Gelata: "No." [00:30:53] Speaker 1: "Do you know how many times she saw Dr. Tufts?" "I do not." "Would it surprise you if I told you that she saw Dr. Tufts 14 times in the timeframe of October, the end of September, October, November, December, and then January?" "Four months." [00:31:08] Rebecca Gelata: "Yes." [00:31:09] Speaker 1: "And that's 14 times plus the three that she saw you." "Is that right?" "Yes." "So that's 17 times that this young lady had access to healthcare providers for her mental health issues, correct?" "Correct." "And that would be within a compressed period of time. I know it's the last week, I believe in September, but October, November, December, and then January, right?" "Yes." "And during that period of time, you're aware that she was provided many, many, many prescriptions for antipsychotics, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, benzodiazepines, all of that, right?" [00:31:55] Rebecca Gelata: "I'm aware she was prescribed other medications." "She was what?" [00:32:00] Speaker 1: "Prescribed other medications." "Did you ask what other medications there were?" "Yes." "And did she tell you?" "Yes." "Did she tell you who prescribed them?" "Yes." "It's pretty easy to get a list from CVS, right?" "Yes." "And did you have any difficulty determining who was providing the prescriptions for all of these medications?" "No." "And did you know that, in fact, it was Jennifer Tufts that prescribed the..." [00:32:29] Speaker ?: "Excuse me for a minute." "Excuse me for a minute." "Yeah." [00:32:32] Speaker 1: "Sertraline, September 15th of 2022, 30 count, 25 milligrams was Jennifer Tufts, you knew that?" [00:32:44] Rebecca Gelata: "I did." [00:32:45] Speaker 1: "You knew that Jennifer Tufts on October 21st, a seven count of lorazepam." "Is that not bad?" "You know that?" "I did." "And five days later, Jennifer Tufts prescribed on October 26th, hydroxazine, 25 milligrams with a 30 count." "Did you know that?" "I did not know that." [00:33:05] Speaker ?: "Did you know that?" "I did not know that." [00:33:07] Speaker 1: "Did you know that on the same day, Tufts prescribed 30 count of lorazepam?" "Did you know that?" [00:33:16] Rebecca Gelata: "I would have known that, yes." "I was checking the PMP for controlled substances, yes." "You do recall and you check with it?" [00:33:23] Speaker 1: "Yes." "When you download, do you download that information and kind of put it in the file?" "No." "So is this your memory that you believe that you checked with PMP?" [00:33:35] Rebecca Gelata: "I do routinely check the PMP." [00:33:37] Speaker 1: "You might routinely check, but did you check?" [00:33:39] Rebecca Gelata: "Yes. Yes, I did." [00:33:41] Speaker 1: "If you download it, you don't keep it with the medical records, right?" [00:33:44] Rebecca Gelata: "It's a box you can click in the medical record and you can check that you reviewed it." "Okay. [00:33:51] Speaker 1: Is it in your medical record that you reviewed it?" [00:33:54] Rebecca Gelata: "I'm not sure how it would have gotten printed out. It doesn't go into my note, but it is a box that I would have checked." [00:34:01] Speaker 1: "A box in the computer?" "Yes." "Okay. October 26, Buspirone, 5 milligrams, 30 count, same day by Tufts. You knew that?" [00:34:13] Speaker ?: "Buspirone?" "Yeah." [00:34:15] Rebecca Gelata: "I was not sure that it was Dr. Tufts that had recommended the Buspirone." [00:34:22] Speaker 1: "Okay. So if I suggest to you that the prescriptions that we have in evidence on the chart indicates that on October 26, Dr. Tufts prescribed a 30 count of Buspirone, would that either refresh your memory or would you accept that as being a medical history?" "I would accept that." [00:34:38] Rebecca Gelata: "Okay. [00:34:39] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:34:40] Speaker 1: And what is Buspirone?" [00:34:42] Rebecca Gelata: "It is a medication used to treat anxiety." "Okay. [00:34:47] Speaker 1: And Lorazepam, what is that?" [00:34:49] Rebecca Gelata: "Benzodiazepine." [00:34:50] Speaker 1: "And Hydroxazine, what is that?" [00:34:53] Rebecca Gelata: "It is an antihistamine medication." [00:34:56] Speaker 1: "And Lorazepam, again, prescribed on October 21st as well as 26th by Tufts, that's the same thing you were just telling us what Lorazepam is, right?" "Yes." "Sertraline, of course, is Prozac, is that right?" "Soloft." "Soloft, Prozac, they're both SSRIs, right?" "Yes." "So from October 21st up through November 9th, she was prescribed all of this group of drugs until she saw a Kayvon Izadepanah, I-Z-A-D-P-A-N-A-H. Do you know who that person is?" [00:35:38] Rebecca Gelata: "They work in the emergency department of social health." [00:35:40] Speaker 1: "All right. And that would have been on November 16th when she went into the emergency department, right?" "Yes." "Pescribed transidone, 50 milligrams, right?" [00:35:49] Rebecca Gelata: "Yes." [00:35:50] Speaker 1: "And then, she started to consult with your clinic around the 25th of November, that would be around Thanksgiving or so, correct?" "November 25th?" [00:36:06] Rebecca Gelata: "I believe her first visit with Julia was November 21st." "Okay." [00:36:11] Speaker 1: "So what I'm saying is that it was around that time in November that she started to consult with your clinic, correct?" "Correct." "You know that she was referred to your clinic by her mother-in-law, Pat's mother, who was a labor and delivery nurse." "Yes, I am aware." "Referred her to Julie Paul, who kind of stepped in for a very short period of time to try to help out, right?" "Yes." "And then Julie left, went to New Hampshire to continue her work, and you picked up on November 30th of '22, is that right?" [00:36:48] Rebecca Gelata: "November 29th." [00:36:49] Speaker 1: "On November 30th of '22, you wrote a script for quietepine, a 30 count, is that right?" "Yes." "And what is quietepine?" "Seroquel." "You also, a week later, wrote a script for diazepam, 5 milligrams, is that correct?" "Correct." "And then the next day you wrote a script for, I'm sorry, December 6th you wrote a script for diazepam, 5 milligrams, right?" "Correct." "December 7th, again, you wrote a script for quietepine, 30 count, right?" [00:37:34] Speaker ?: "I would need to check my record." [00:37:35] Rebecca Gelata: "You can look at anything you want." "Okay." [00:37:37] Speaker 1: "If you have your records, feel free, please." "Okay." "You said December 7th?" "Yeah, it would be December 7th." "I'm looking at quietepine, 30 count, 100 milligrams." [00:37:56] Speaker ?: "I don't believe it was a 30 count of 100 milligrams." [00:37:57] Rebecca Gelata: "Do you remember writing quietepine script for 100 milligrams?" "I do. I believe the quantity was 22." "22. [00:38:12] Speaker 1: Okay. So, on December 7th of 22, you wrote a script for quietepine, and forgive me, I'm sorry, what is that again?" "Seroquel." "Seroquel." "For 100 milligrams, right?" [00:38:25] Rebecca Gelata: "Yes." [00:38:26] Speaker 1: "And why did you write the script on November 30th for quietepine, 25 milligrams, and then about a week later, increase it to 100 milligrams?" [00:38:36] Rebecca Gelata: "On November 30th, I had anticipated utilizing it over a four week course of treatment for sleep and anxiety, but her clinical symptoms, presentations changed, and we opted to use it for mood stabilization." [00:38:57] Speaker 1: "And who's we?" [00:38:58] Speaker ?: "Me." [00:38:59] Speaker 1: "Okay. And were you working with anybody else, any psychiatrists or anybody?" [00:39:05] Rebecca Gelata: "No." [00:39:06] Speaker 1: "So, when a person comes to your clinic, as a woman who has recently had a baby or is within that postpartum range of time, and presents with the symptomology that she presented, is that something that would give you cause for concern? "Suicidal ideation?" [00:39:27] Rebecca Gelata: "I in no way want to minimize what Lindsay experienced, but it's common for us to treat." [00:39:35] Speaker 1: "It's common to treat women in that fashion?" "Yes." "That are postpartum?" [00:39:39] Rebecca Gelata: "The postpartum who may have suicide." [00:39:40] Speaker 5: "She keeps cutting off the witness before she gives an answer. May she complete her answer?" [00:39:46] Speaker 1: "Sure. As I've said before, let's only talk one at a time. You finish your answer, and then we'll go to the question." "Go ahead." [00:39:53] Rebecca Gelata: "Her symptoms were serious, and it's not uncommon for me to treat women with serious symptoms in the postpartum period." [00:39:59] Speaker 2: "Okay." "Another theme here you see from the defense, and it's another one of their big themes. This is someone who is clearly over-medicated. The themes are clear. They're simple. They're straightforward. Too many drugs. Misdiagnosed. She's suffering from mental illness. It's not her fault. She's not criminally responsible. January 23rd, 2023 is a huge day in this case. It's the day before those three little angels are killed by their mother, Lindsay. And what was happening that day becomes very relevant for this jury to try to understand the mental state of Lindsay Clancy. I want to play for you a moment from Dr. Jennifer Tuft's cross-examination. It may have been one of the most important moments from that cross. And the reason being, it's about exactly what the doctor did, what she prescribed the day before this happened. And I think the defense wants to really lean into this in a big way and make it almost the foundation of their defense here. It's the mental illness. It's the incompetence of the doctor and it's the over-medication all coming to a head as if it's a perfect storm of events just before Lindsay takes their lives. So let's take a listen to this moment from the cross-examination. [00:41:24] Speaker 1: January 23rd, you had that meeting, correct, with her? And this is after obviously, excuse me, the January 16th appointment. She told you that her mood was very low and that's the worst that she ever reported her move to you. Isn't that right? [00:41:54] Speaker 6: On the 16th? Yeah. I don't know if that was the worst it was ever reported, but it was certainly bad. [00:42:05] Speaker 1: And you didn't recommend that she have a hospital evaluation, did you? No, there were no, um... The answer's no? No. [00:42:11] Speaker 6: They'll ask you all the questions they want. Your answer's no. [00:42:13] Speaker 1: January 23rd, Friday you testified that she said her mood was depressed and you noted that [00:42:15] Speaker ?: her affect was depressed and flat, right? [00:42:16] Speaker 1: No. I don't know if that's the case. I don't know if that's the case. [00:42:19] Speaker 6: I don't know if that's the case. I don't know if that's the case. [00:42:21] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the case. [00:42:22] Speaker 6: I don't know if that's the case. [00:42:23] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the case. I don't know if that's the case. I don't know if that's the case. [00:42:26] Speaker ?: I don't know if that's the case. [00:42:27] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the case. I don't know if that's the case. Friday you testified that she said her mood was depressed and you noted that her affect was depressed and flat, right? [00:42:39] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:42:40] Speaker 1: She also reported that her heart was racing, right? Yes. She had no motivation is what she told you, right? Yes. She told you that she had been feeling numb and no emotion for 17 days straight is what she told you, right? [00:43:01] Speaker 6: I'm not sure about 17 days straight, but that's how she was feeling. [00:43:07] Speaker 1: You didn't reach out to her mother and father at that point? They didn't call you, I guess, right? [00:43:13] Speaker ?: No. [00:43:14] Speaker 1: And Patrick didn't call you at that point, right? [00:43:17] Speaker 6: No. [00:43:18] Speaker 1: So she's sitting in front of her computer getting help from her doctor on January 23rd. And what did you do? [00:43:31] Speaker 6: Well, I thought about how I could best help her with the medicines that she tried and what her current symptoms were and it made sense to slowly titrate the amitriptyline so that we could get her to a dose that reduced her depression so that she would feel better. But it increased the amitriptyline. [00:43:56] Speaker 1: Yes. That pushed her over the edge, didn't it? I don't think so. [00:43:59] Speaker 2: The doctor is so uncomfortable in that moment. That's like a mic drop moment for the defense, right? This is where they're really saying, doctor, you didn't know what you're doing. Then you look at the doctor's demeanor on the stand. She doesn't look confident. She looks like, oh, maybe I did mess up here. All that is terrible, absolutely horrific for the prosecution. But prosecutors get an opportunity to try to rehabilitate the witness or at least clarify the issue. So let's take a look now at the redirect of Dr. Tufts on this very issue, which is a huge issue for the defense. Let's watch. [00:44:48] Speaker 7: You were asked by defense counsel about the amitriptyline that you prescribed on January 16, 2023. That initial prescription was for 10 milligrams, correct? Yes. I'm going to call over on exhibit 155 of amitriptyline. Would you agree with me that this shows that the prescription was filled on that same day, January 16, 2023? Yes. And out of this pill bottle here, there were 30 pills in this prescription, correct? Yes. And there are only eight, there are eight pills missing from this bottle. So filled on January 16th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd would be eight days, correct? Mm-hmm. And on the 23rd is when you said she could raise it to 20 milligrams? Yes. So if there are only eight pills missing, she never took that additional dose, correct? [00:46:01] Speaker 8: That's what I would think based on what you just said. [00:46:04] Speaker 7: So the amitriptyline, increasing it from 10 milligrams to 20 milligrams, wouldn't have pushed her over the edge, correct? [00:46:11] Speaker 8: Well, if she didn't take 20 milligrams, then that's correct. [00:46:16] Speaker 2: That's a great job by the prosecution. And that's a big part of this case. There's what she's been prescribed and what she's actually taken and they don't always coincide. Like she was reluctant to take some of these medications because she thought they were making her worse. She was very skeptical of all of it, but she wanted help and she wanted something that was going to help her. So in this case where the defense has this big, big, big moment that pushed her over the edge and the prosecutor comes back very calmly talking about, well, there were eight pills missing and it was eight days that she took it. Common sense might tell you, well, she's taking one pill every day, but there's still a chance that maybe just maybe she skipped a day and did double the dose that day. I mean, that's still very possible, but the way the prosecution left it right there, very, very effective. We are out of time for this time. Thank you so much for watching. I'm Vinnie Politan. Thanks again. And please, as always, don't forget to hug the kids. [00:47:31] Speaker ?: you