'Iran War Is The Root': Mehdi Hasan Analyses Political Fallout For Trump And The Republican Party

[0:00] And kicking off our roundtable today is a very special guest. [0:03] Delighted to be joined by Mehdi Hassan from Washington, [0:07] one of the most vocal critics of Donald Trump in America, [0:11] editor of Zetio, a leading digital news site. [0:13] Good to have you, Mehdi, on the show. [0:16] Let me ask you right away, because you are celebrating Donald Trump's defeat. [0:21] I saw videos of that. [0:23] And I want to ask a direct question. [0:25] Do you really believe that Donald Trump and Trumpism have hit a wall of no return? [0:33] No, sadly, I wish I could say that, Raju, but thanks for having me. [0:36] No, no, I'm not that dewy-eyed. [0:39] I'm very well aware that Donald Trump is not going anywhere for another two years minimum. [0:43] He is the president till 2028, till January 2029. [0:48] Whether he tries to stay on, as he suggested he might, we shall see. [0:51] That's become much less likely after this week's results, thankfully. [0:54] But he's around, and even after he's gone, what he's created in his party, Trumpism, MAGA, [1:00] this neo-fascist movement, will be with us for a long time to come. [1:04] It may even get worse. [1:05] If you look at young Republicans, Rajdeep in the United States, [1:08] people who have grown up on Donald Trump's watch over the last decade, [1:11] they're far more obnoxious and racist and far-right than even he is. [1:15] So I don't think Trumpism is going anywhere. [1:17] What I hope is, in the next two years, the Democrats can show Americans, [1:20] number one, there is an alternative model of governance, of policy. [1:24] And number two, they can hold him in some kind of check. [1:27] For the last two years, Rajdeep, there's been no real check on his power, [1:30] no real balance on his power. [1:32] You know, given what you've just said, [1:36] am I to therefore understand, Mehdi, that the verdict that we saw in the United States [1:42] is a rejection of the kind of policies that Donald Trump pursued in the last two years, [1:50] the Iran war that led to energy crisis, [1:53] the belief that corruption in high places, cronyism, was carrying on in a rampant manner. [1:59] And it is not a rejection of fundamentally the reasons why this Make America Great Again [2:06] or MAGA movement became so influential in America. [2:09] We need to make a distinction between Trump's policies and the core of the Trump vote. [2:16] Well, let's actually separate it out even more than that. [2:19] I think for sure it was a rejection of the Trump presidency so far, [2:23] his signature policies, tariffs, the war in Iran, and his own corruption. [2:28] You know, Fox News, of all people, Rajdeep, did a poll on the eve of the midterms. [2:32] They found Americans' number one issue was corruption. [2:35] That's never happened before. [2:36] Normally, you ask Americans in an election, what's your top issue? [2:38] They say the economy, cost of living, immigration, maybe crime, health care. [2:42] They never say corruption. [2:43] But Americans are so fed up with the corruption they're seeing, [2:46] the grift in Washington, D.C., that it was a top issue in a lot of polls. [2:50] So that's definitely a big issue, and Democrats should be investigating that corruption. [2:53] Now they control the House and the Senate in Washington, D.C. [2:56] That should be top of their list. [2:58] But also, look, the Iran war is the root of all evil [3:00] when it comes to the failure of the Republicans to make any headway in these elections. [3:04] He betrayed a very clear campaign promise that he wouldn't start any new wars. [3:08] That's number one. [3:09] And number two, the war itself drove up gas prices, grocery prices. [3:13] He said on day one he would bring down the cost of living. [3:16] He would end inflation. [3:17] So everything goes back to the Iran war, and you don't have to take my word for that. [3:20] J.D. Vance, the vice president, published a post on Wednesday saying the Iran war was to blame. [3:25] And yet today, Donald Trump is quoted as saying he's locked and loaded [3:30] if it comes to a strike against Iran. [3:32] So it's not as if the defeat at home has stopped him from, in a way, [3:37] threatening Iran once again, or threatening to strike Iran in, who knows, in the next few days. [3:43] Because he's not a rational figure, Rajiv. [3:45] People keep asking me, oh, Mehdi, what do you think is going to happen now? [3:48] Now the midterms are over. [3:49] Who knows? [3:50] You know, you need a psychiatrist to understand Donald Trump better than a political analyst. [3:54] Who knows what is going on inside that head of his? [3:57] And even people who have studied him for years, even people who know him, work for him, [4:00] do not understand why he hitched his entire presidency to Benjamin Netanyahu in this war in Iran. [4:06] You and I talked about this a few months ago when I came on your show. [4:09] Things have not improved. [4:10] The war is not over. [4:11] There is no resolution to the Strait of Hormuz. [4:13] Donald Trump will not back away from the precipice. [4:16] And it's bizarre, because he ran so clearly, so popularly. [4:19] He went to Dearborn, Michigan, Rajiv, a big Arab-American city. [4:22] And he won votes there by promising them Kamala Harris will take America to war in the Middle [4:27] East. [4:27] I will not. [4:28] I will have no new wars. [4:30] There will be no war with Iran. [4:31] And then he went to war with Iran, a war that has not ended, a war that's been a disaster [4:35] both geopolitically, internationally, but also at home. [4:38] And people are scratching their heads wondering, why does he not pull back from this clear disaster? [4:42] J.D. Vance's own VP is suggesting they should pull back. [4:45] But for some reason, and I can't, I wish I could tell you what it is, he carries on down this [4:49] crazy path. [4:51] You know, it's interesting you mentioned, Mehdi, there, Michigan. [4:55] Now, you, among others, have celebrated Abdul Al-Said's victory in Michigan, the first [4:59] Muslim politician to become a senator. [5:05] Now, he's been portrayed by the American MAGA coalition and indeed the Indian right as a [5:11] polarizing figure. [5:12] Do you see Al-Said's victory as him being seen as a bridge builder, broadening this democratic [5:18] coalition? [5:19] Or is victory primarily a reflection of Michigan's particular political and demographic dynamics, [5:26] large population from the Middle East? [5:28] Is this a victory of progressives? [5:31] Or is this a victory of more polarization that could take place in the United States? [5:35] Well, first of all, Rajdeep, forgive me if I don't take lessons on polarizing figures from [5:39] the Indian right or MAGA, who have, of course, produced their own series of polarizing figures [5:44] over the years. [5:45] Abdul Al-Said ran a very populist campaign. [5:47] He rallied people around him on key issues. [5:50] What were his policies, Rajdeep? [5:51] It was Medicare for all, get health care for everyone. [5:54] It was get money out of politics. [5:55] It was put money in your pocket. [5:56] Like Zoran Mondani, another Muslim leftist populist in New York, he ran on a very simple, populist, [6:02] economically-focused cost-of-living agenda. [6:04] People say, oh, he's obsessed with Israel. [6:06] He's obsessed with Islam. [6:07] He's obsessed. [6:08] No, look at his campaign. [6:09] He ran on a very simple, tried-and-tested campaign for people who are mad. [6:14] You mentioned earlier, you know, the MAGA movement, is that still survives? [6:18] Well, it does because people in this country are mad, right? [6:20] Whether you're on the right or the left, people are angry at the political system. [6:24] They're angry at a system that doesn't represent them. [6:26] They're angry at an oligarchy where the rich get everything. [6:29] They're angry at a rigged economic system that has left them behind. [6:31] And the question is, who will harness that anger? [6:35] Is it people on the right with reactionary, racist, nativist politics? [6:38] Or is it people on the left who can actually offer an anti-oligarchy, an anti-big business, [6:43] a populist, working-class campaign? [6:45] That is what Abdul Al-Sayed ran on. [6:47] And this idea that, oh, Michigan is a Muslim... [6:49] The Muslim population of Michigan is a few percentage points. [6:52] He didn't win the election in this state by seven points just because of Muslim votes. [6:57] He rallied people from across the spectrum. [6:58] In fact, one poll before the election, Rajiv, found that he did better at persuading Trump voters to vote for him [7:04] than other Democratic candidates in swing states. [7:06] No, so you're saying his faith or that of Zoram Mamdani had little to do with the victory. [7:11] It had to do with them taking up real issues of real people. [7:15] But at the same time, you're accepting that there is this growing polarization [7:19] between the radical right and the radical left, which leaves the space presumably less and less [7:24] for the political center in America. [7:26] The problem is, Rajiv, maybe those terms still apply in India. [7:29] But in the U.S., as many people have been pointing out over the last 48 hours, [7:33] these terms really have no meaning. [7:34] Right, left, moderate, center. [7:36] Look at what people are running on. [7:38] Even, quote-unquote, moderate Democrats, centrist Democrats who won races across America, [7:44] in Texas, in North Carolina, wherever you look, they were running on what? [7:48] They were running on, we're anti-billionaire. [7:50] We're anti-AI data centers. [7:52] We're anti-oligarchy and big corporations. [7:54] We want everyone to have health care. [7:56] This is the message now. [7:57] The Bernie Sanders message of 2016, which was seen as, quote, radical left, [8:01] is now mainstream in American politics across the Democratic Party, [8:04] because that's where the public is. [8:06] The public are fed up with this oligarchy. [8:08] They're fed up with a bunch of tech billionaires making all the money, [8:12] deciding what they read or see, building AI data centers in their backyards [8:15] that drive up their prices. [8:17] And that is the kind of anger that Donald Trump ironically harnessed so successfully [8:20] in 2016 and 2024, but now Democrats are harnessing it in these midterms this week. [8:25] You know, it's very interesting the way you're putting it, [8:27] because one of the most significant verdicts, apart from al-Said, was in Texas, [8:32] a state, you know, which the Republicans hadn't lost in three decades. [8:36] And you had Elon Musk putting all his billions into Texas, putting it in other Trump-backed candidates. [8:44] Are we, therefore, in this, you seem to see this almost as a verdict against anti-elitism [8:48] or certainly anti-corporate greed or cronyism. [8:52] Do you believe that, as a result, the influence that these tech billionaires [8:56] or the musts of the world will have on U.S. policies will actually now take a bit of a beating, [9:03] that they will also find themselves, there's a pushback to that? [9:09] Oh, look, these people are the richest people in the world, Rajat. [9:11] If they're not just going to roll over because the Democrats have taken back Congress, [9:15] they're going to push back. [9:15] I do hope the Democrats have the courage of their convictions, [9:18] don't betray their voters, and actually do hold these tech billionaires to account, [9:22] do actually hold investigations into what has been happening behind the scenes. [9:25] For example, Doge, this enterprise that Elon Musk led in government [9:29] to slash aid spending and slash the government, that should be investigated. [9:33] But, of course, we're already hearing, Rajdeep, that Elon Musk may get a pardon from Donald Trump. [9:37] There's reporting that Donald Trump may just hand out pardons to all of his rich allies [9:40] to prevent the Democrats from ever impeaching or investigating or prosecuting them [9:44] for any crimes they may have committed in the first two years of this presidency. [9:47] I think you'll see a lot of tech bosses, Rajdeep, try and win the battle on AI, right? [9:52] That was at the heart of these midterms. [9:55] On the majority of Democrats who won, ran against AI data centers. [9:58] And I think you'll see a lot of billionaires now spending a lot of money on PR campaigns [10:02] to convince the American public that AI and AI data centers, they're your friends. [10:07] I think we're going to see a massive amount of spending. [10:09] They're not just going to roll over, these people, of course. [10:11] Do you see the Democrats, now that they've taken control of both houses, [10:15] actually pushing for the impeachment of Donald Trump or indeed certain people around him? [10:19] That is the $64 billion question, whether Democrats go for impeachment. [10:23] The leadership don't want it. [10:24] Hakeem Jeffries, who will be the new Speaker of the House, he's against it. [10:28] They've made it very clear they're not interested in impeaching Trump because, of course, [10:30] they don't have enough senators, even now, even with a new Democratic-controlled Senate, [10:33] to convict him. [10:34] So what would be the purpose, they argue, of impeaching him three times? [10:37] The counterargument is he has committed impeachable offenses, so he should be impeached. [10:41] But the better counterargument, and one I'm sympathetic to, is you have limited time and [10:45] resources. [10:46] Do you put them after going after Trump, who can't be really convicted? [10:49] Or do you go after Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary? [10:51] Do you go after RFK Jr., the health secretary? [10:54] Do you go after lower-level civil servants? [10:56] Do you go after Stephen Miller? [10:57] Do you go after Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who's been doing all sorts of dodgy [11:00] dealings in the Middle East and beyond while working as a presidential envoy? [11:03] There are actually quite lower-hanging, easier-fruit targets to hit, and I think Democrats will [11:08] definitely be investigating and impeaching someone. [11:11] Whether it's Trump, we shall see. [11:13] Does this result also, in a broader sense, according to Mehdi Hassan, mark a setback for [11:18] the global populist right? [11:20] In a sense, we've seen what's happened in Serbia just a couple of weeks ago. [11:24] We've seen what's happened in Israel with Netanyahu. [11:27] We're seeing what's happened with Donald Trump. [11:29] Are we seeing any kind of global trend which is a message, in a way, to the populist strongman? [11:37] Again, I wish I could say yes and say, yes, this is the end of the global populist right. [11:42] Unfortunately, that's not the case. [11:43] We have an election coming up in France where Marine Le Pen, who's leader of the far right [11:47] in France, is still the favorite to be the next president of France, which is a crazy [11:51] thing to say out loud. [11:52] 10, 15 years, you would have laughed at me if I said Marine Le Pen might be the next [11:55] president of France. [11:55] Nigel Farage has definitely dropped in the U.K. his reform party, the hard right leader [12:00] in the U.K., but he's still up there. [12:01] He's still polling as high as the other two parties almost. [12:04] So, no, they haven't completely been defeated or in retreat. [12:08] But, look, they certainly were not happy on Tuesday night when they saw U.S. results, [12:12] because Donald Trump has been the de facto self-appointed leader of this kind of global [12:16] coalition of right-wingers. [12:17] Don't forget, Rajdeep, you left out of your list Bolsonaro losing in Brazil. [12:21] That was another good victory for people who believe in democracy and progressive politics. [12:25] So, look, do I hope that the Brazilian results and the American midterm results and others [12:29] spread to India and the U.K. and France? [12:31] Of course, I hope that. [12:32] But let's see what happens. [12:34] OK. [12:34] My final question, then, at the end of this rather dramatic week, what, according to you, [12:40] Mehdi Asan, has changed in America for the better? [12:44] And what, according to you, has possibly changed for the worse? [12:47] What makes you hopeful? [12:50] And what makes you still a little skeptical? [12:53] We didn't mention, by the way, Vivek Ramaswamy, someone whose victory I saw you celebrating [12:58] particularly furiously. [13:00] I mean, you have Al-Sahid on one side and you have Ramaswamy on the other. [13:04] Yeah, he, he, I mean, Ramaswamy, of course, was the politician in Ohio who ran for governor, [13:09] Trump ally, ran for president previously, lost badly in a state he should have won. [13:12] He ran a very despicable campaign. [13:14] He ran some horrific ads about his opponent who was a victim of child sexual abuse. [13:17] And he ran ads involving her mother, who was part of that. [13:20] It's a, it's a, it's a horrific example. [13:22] People can Google it. [13:23] He lost badly. [13:23] He deserved to lose. [13:24] In terms of your question about hope and, and, and skepticism, I'm hopeful because Americans [13:30] did turn out in insane numbers, young voters, black voters, Latino voters, to reject Trumpism [13:34] and Trump. [13:35] And also they rejected Islamophobia. [13:37] In Michigan, the Republican Party threw the entire Islamophobic playbook at Abdul Al-Sahid. [13:41] He's a terrorist. [13:41] He's a jihadist. [13:42] He's a Muslim brother. [13:43] And ordinary Americans rejected that narrative. [13:45] So that was a good win, uh, for the people of this country to reject hate and division. [13:49] Uh, that makes me hopeful as a Muslim American, as someone who's on the left. [13:52] Uh, what worries me, of course, is that the Democrats never miss an opportunity to miss [13:56] an opportunity. [13:56] And I worry whether the Democratic Party now, given this mandate, given this huge majority [14:00] in the House and a majority in the Senate, will they actually use it to deliver on an [14:04] agenda that improves people's lives, that holds Trump to account, or will they drop the [14:08] ball, as Democratic leaders have so often done in recent years? [14:10] Let us see. [14:11] Mehdi Hassan, for joining me, uh, on the show and, uh, giving us your very, very sharp perspectives [14:18] on what's happened, uh, in this dramatic week in the United States. [14:22] Uh, thank you very much for taking the time off, uh, for, for being with us. [14:27] Thank you. [14:28] Thank you, Rajdeep. [14:29] Always a pleasure.