Hunter Biden UNFILTERED on His Father, MAGA & All the Secrets Behind the Scenes!

[0:00] There is a contingency, gay, Republican men that are closeted. [0:05] And we all know who they are. [0:06] Can we just gossip a little bit? [0:08] I mean, are you asking me if Josh Hawley's gay? [0:11] Yes. [0:12] Are you asking me if Stephen Miller's gay? [0:13] Yes. [0:14] Yeah, I don't know. [0:15] Were you friends with Jake Tapper? [0:17] No. [0:18] How'd you feel about the book? [0:19] Jake, I do not like you. [0:21] I don't like you at all. [0:22] And I have a whole host of reasons why. [0:25] How's your dad? [0:26] He's okay. [0:28] Did my dad lose his step when he was president? [0:30] Literally, a physical step? [0:32] Yeah, he did. [0:34] Did he lose his step mentally and intellectually? [0:37] No, he didn't. [0:38] Do you think he would have won? [0:39] Yeah. [0:40] Yeah. [0:40] You do? [0:41] Yeah. [0:41] You think he made the right decision by pardoning you? [0:43] 100%. [0:44] Thank God. [0:45] Yeah. [0:46] They built this platform for me, Don. [0:48] And they put me up on it. [0:50] And they tied me to a stake. [0:52] And they set me on fire. [0:54] And they threw tomatoes at me. [0:56] And when the crowd died down and finally kind of slunk away, there I was. [1:02] Still standing. [1:04] Do you ever just go, what the hell am I doing? [1:08] What the hell am I doing? [1:09] Yeah. [1:09] I mean, no. [1:10] Because you're everywhere. [1:12] Yeah. [1:12] You are everywhere now. [1:13] Yeah. [1:14] You were quiet and then all of a sudden not. [1:17] That's a conscious decision. [1:18] Yeah. [1:18] But as you know, it was like there was a conscious decision to remain quiet for good reasons. [1:27] You know, a long period of the time I was under investigation or indictment from the very beginning. [1:35] You know, I mean, everybody forgets that the investigation in me started at the behest of the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, feeding this Russian disinformation into the bloodstream of the Department of Justice. [1:53] I mean, that's what just came out last night. [1:56] They are such morons. [1:58] He released the exact information to vindicate everything that I've known for the past like six years. [2:08] Tell me about that. [2:09] What do you mean? [2:09] So last night when the president went on, behind his speech, the White House released a series of declassified documents. [2:18] These declassified documents were declassified July 3rd, but they were made public last night in support of this idea that China was somehow influencing our elections and all that, which is all complete bullshit, too. [2:32] So in that cache of documents is one report from the NDI under Trump, by the way, five months before the election in which they said Vladimir Putin is running a directly Vladimir Putin is running an operation to to undermine the candidacy of Joe Biden by claiming corruption in Ukraine, basically through through me. [3:00] And that it is a known Russian disinformation operation. [3:07] And they're using American, American individuals and leaders in politics to launder the information. [3:16] And, you know, those people are the president's own personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani and John Solomon, the guy who's in charge right now. [3:24] Yeah. [3:25] Of this whole election fraud crap. [3:27] Of the whole of this election fraud. [3:27] Did you see what happened with him right after the thing last night? [3:31] Yeah. [3:31] He admitted that all of it was made up, that it was fake. [3:34] There's no way. [3:35] Didn't change of one vote. [3:37] You've talked to Lev Parnas. [3:38] Lev Parnas has laid all of this out. [3:41] He's testified under oath to it. [3:44] And he talks about this team, this BLT team, which was the BLT steakhouse in the Trump Hotel. [3:49] Yeah. [3:50] Where they would all meet. [3:51] They would meet there and they would literally meet in Fox News headquarters in D.C. in a conference room. [3:57] And it was to launder this information from a guy named Andre Durkacz. [4:03] Yeah. [4:04] And I can never pronounce his name, Kuliak. [4:07] There's another Russian, known Russian spy, you know, GRU agent that was literally feeding the information directly to Rudy Giuliani. [4:18] They were doing a documentary on OAN about it. [4:21] And a part of that team was John Solomon, who was ostensibly still at the Hill, but acting basically as conduit for Russian disinformation knowingly, knowingly, along with Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, Victoria Tunzing and Joe DiGenova, who now both work in a running the conspiracy counter narrative out of the U.S. [4:50] attorney's office in Florida, both working for Trump and John Solomon, who now works directly for Trump as a special government employee running this operation. [4:58] They were literally all and they admit it in the NDI report and they released it last night. [5:04] Making up shit about you. [5:05] Yeah. [5:05] Making up the whole. [5:06] By the way, the whole thing. [5:07] And that's the whole. [5:08] And that was the whole operation. [5:10] This whole idea. [5:11] Everybody forgets this. [5:12] I joined the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company because, number one, I was qualified to join the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company. [5:20] Because I had served on, I don't know, at least a dozen other boards of major significance with global implications involved in all of them. [5:30] For a year and a half, when my dad was president, excuse me, vice president. [5:34] Vice president, yeah. [5:36] Every single thing else that they talk about me was during the, none of which is remotely corruption, was all when my dad was out of office. [5:46] I mean, for the time that my dad was in office, and I don't think people get this because they conflate all of this, because I made basically on average about $200,000 a year painting. [5:57] All of the buyers which testified in Congress under oath to the fact that they just bought my paintings because they like my paintings. [6:05] Yeah. [6:06] Anyway. [6:06] I got a story for you. [6:08] I told a friend who, a friend who owns a media company, and they were going crazy about Hunter Biden and selling his paintings. [6:14] And I said, I texted him. [6:15] I can find it. [6:16] I said, I don't give a shit that Hunter Biden is selling paintings. [6:19] As a matter of fact, I would buy one. [6:21] Like, what are you guys going, what are you going crazy for? [6:23] Can we talk about that? [6:24] You buying one. [6:25] I'm doing well with the paintings things now, but I'll let you know after. [6:32] You can go to HunterBiden.com right now, and you can buy one of my paintings. [6:38] Yeah. [6:38] Sid, you were telling this story about this BLT unit, right? [6:43] You would know better, I think, than anyone, the kinds of people who are running our country right now, who are going after journalists, [6:50] who are, you know, arresting journalists, who are going after anyone who is perceived to be the president's political enemy or political rival. [6:59] Who are these people? [7:01] Victoria Tonsing. [7:02] No, I don't mean literally. [7:03] Literally. [7:04] Like, what kind of people are they? [7:06] I don't know how they lost all of their morality, all of their sense of right and wrong. [7:17] They have lost their minds. [7:20] A lot of these people have been in and out of government for 30 years, but somehow they've fallen under the spell of the cult of Donald Trump, [7:30] in which they believe anything that they do in furtherance of his personal goals is justified. [7:37] It is the quintessential kind of Machiavellian, twisted Machiavellian thinking I have ever witnessed in American politics. [7:46] I've been, you know, I've been, in one way or another, stood alongside this government politics for over 54 years, okay? [8:02] I don't know, and I'm a student of history. [8:06] There has been nothing that comes remotely close to the corruption that's occurring right now. [8:12] And I say to people, it's not just the corruption about the money, of which we only see the tippy top of the iceberg of what they allow us to see. [8:21] With their reporting. [8:22] Yeah. It is everything that's happening below it, in which is literally dismantling every guardrail that has ever been created in order to make the idea that there could be some justice. [8:35] But I'm saying, what kind of person does that? [8:37] Because if you look... [8:38] I don't know anymore, Don. I don't know. [8:40] I mean, I asked myself this question for the past seven years. [8:47] I mean, I truly don't know anymore. [8:50] I don't understand what it is that they think that they're getting out of it. [8:55] I understand the motivation of money, because there's literally billions of dollars that we absolutely know about. [9:01] I understand the motivation of money. [9:04] I understand the, excuse me, of power, of the proximity to power. [9:09] But I can't imagine what it is. [9:12] For instance, I ask you that question. [9:15] What is it that allows people that have, whether I agree with them or not, in terms of the way in which they presented the news, from the media to engage in this? [9:30] I mean, I look at Fox News, and, you know, I didn't like what Fox News had to say 10 years ago. [9:36] But I didn't think that they were bound and determined to destroy, you know, the American experiment. [9:47] I don't know. [9:47] You didn't think so then? [9:48] I thought so. [9:50] Working at... [9:51] I thought that they were hyper-partisan people. [9:55] I worked at CNN, and, you know, I would watch the folks over on Fox News say the most vile shit about me. [10:02] I'd be in my office watching, and, you know, Tucker Carlson would be calling me Don Lamont and, you know, insinuating, you know, things about my sexuality. [10:10] All kinds of shit. [10:11] And I was wondering, like, why are you guys so obsessed with, like, why are Republicans so obsessed with gay people? [10:16] Men, especially. [10:17] You know why? [10:18] And this is a serious statement, is because there is a... [10:23] And I don't know whether you know this to be true, but I know it to be true. [10:28] There is a contingency, a cabal, a word that is, you know, gives it too much credit, [10:38] of gay Republican men that are closeted and have an enormous amount of self-hate, I believe. [10:46] Yeah. [10:47] And we all know who they are. [10:49] You mean in D.C.? [10:50] In D.C. [10:51] You know the gay men, the closeted gay men. [10:53] We all know who they are. [10:54] Yes. [10:55] Was Lindsey Graham one of them? [10:56] Of course he was. [10:57] And I don't say that as to say something negative, as my grandmother would say, never speak ill of the dead. [11:03] I wrote what I wrote about Lindsey Graham and the Lindsey Graham that I want to remember. [11:08] But everybody knew that Lindsey Graham was gay. [11:12] And there are a whole list of other people. [11:15] Why didn't they say anything? [11:17] Because I ask you that, because he was... [11:19] I don't know. [11:19] You tell me. [11:20] Well, he was writing and proposing legislation and passing legislation that was detrimental to the members of the LGBTQ community. [11:29] And, you know, after I was... [11:32] I feel a bit different than you about when he died. [11:36] The John McCain, I believe, that you knew was long gone. [11:39] I mean, excuse me. [11:40] The Lindsey Graham that you knew was long gone, the one who was a friend to John McCain, that guy was over. [11:45] And I don't like rewriting people's history. [11:49] I don't want... [11:50] I'm not glad that the man is dead. [11:52] But he did some horrible things to... [11:55] He did some horrible things to people like me. [11:58] And when people say, well, think about his family. [12:01] His family, you know, he's died. [12:02] Think about his family and all for... [12:03] He didn't think about my family when he was saying that I shouldn't be married, when they were proposing, you know, transgender legislation, when they were, you know, getting rid of a woman's right to choose. [12:13] He didn't think about people's family. [12:14] So why would he think about his family? [12:16] I'm not happy that he's died, but... [12:18] It's interesting that you say that. [12:20] But, you know... [12:20] Because I had the same exact conversation with one of my daughters, who's a part of the LGBTQ community, and openly. [12:31] And so, and she talks about it all the time, and I talk about it because I'm incredibly proud of her. [12:37] But she was making the point as it related to another thing that we were talking about, me out there talking about things. [12:45] And you're absolutely right. [12:49] Now, I was not saying that I honor the man that Lindsey Graham was in the last 10 years. [12:57] I was saying that I hope for a time that could come back in which you could have legitimate disagreements with people and still be able to have dinner with them and share a common humanity. [13:11] You think that's possible? [13:13] Here's the thing. [13:15] We better all hope that it's possible. [13:17] I don't think... [13:17] I think it's possible. [13:18] We better all hope it's possible. [13:19] Maybe far in the future, but let me tell you, I don't like to give these guys... [13:24] I can't give them an inch of because... [13:27] No, I'm not giving them an inch. [13:28] Because they were so horrible to your father. [13:30] They were horrible to you. [13:31] They were horrible to your family and to your mom. [13:34] They're just terrible people. [13:36] Yeah. [13:37] And so I just, I can't have that sort of kumbaya thing with MAGA. [13:42] It's a whole different time. [13:44] Maybe in the future after Donald Trump. [13:45] By the way, if you think I'm looking for a kumbaya moment, you got the wrong guy. [13:53] No, 100%. [13:54] I'm not in any way saying that. [13:56] I'm not even remotely. [13:58] As I am saying to you, is that that better be our aspiration in the future, though. [14:03] Yeah. [14:04] But not without holding people accountable for what I believe is... [14:09] Look, I'm going into the lion's den and talking to all these people. [14:14] I'm going to talk to Candace. [14:16] I talk to Nick Fuentes. [14:17] I'm going to go... [14:17] Why did you do that? [14:18] Why did you talk to Candace and Nick Fuentes? [14:19] Because, is that, you know, as you said, I can't think of people that have been more despicable [14:26] directly towards me than these people. [14:30] But why do you want to give them any sort of... [14:33] I'm not giving them. [14:33] They have these huge... [14:35] No, not clicks. [14:36] They have these huge platforms. [14:38] They don't need clicks from me. [14:39] What I want to know is what the fuck is your problem? [14:42] Like, what is it that you don't see that I saw, that Don Lemon saw, that 81 million Americans [14:48] that voted against Trump when they made my dad president saw? [14:52] What is it that you didn't see at that time? [14:55] And here's my point about it. [14:56] Is what has happened with all of them, not all of them, but a lot of them, is that their [15:02] eyes have been opened in the past six months to a year. [15:06] And I believe that there is one singular issue that is existential to this country right now. [15:13] And that is Donald Trump. [15:15] And if I can find common ground with you and understand how it is that you are going to [15:21] oppose the singular most important thing that you can oppose in today's society is Trumpism, [15:29] then I'm going to figure out a way to be able to talk with you, even if I absolutely 100% disagree with you on a woman's right to choose, [15:37] on LGBTQ rights, on tax policy, on, you know, go down the list of things, which I think that we will continue to disagree on, [15:46] but not at the expense of thinking that you can't sit down and have dinner and have a conversation. [15:53] Don't you think that? [15:53] I do, but some of these people are, I mean, I think Candace is a bright woman. [15:58] I actually think Nick Fuentes is a bright, a very smart young man and a really great communicator, right? [16:03] I think he's got something at a young age that most people don't have, right? [16:07] He's a natural communicator. [16:08] But you aren't savvy enough to see that Donald Trump is a swindler, a snake oil salesman. [16:14] He's a cult leader and he doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. [16:17] You can't see that? [16:18] I can see that a mile away and I'm not even in politics. [16:21] Well, they do now. [16:23] They do now. [16:23] Go listen to the... [16:24] Did you ask him what took him so long? [16:27] Yeah, 100%. [16:28] And also Candace in that interview. [16:31] 100% is that they think that they were bamboozled. [16:34] They had the excitement with which they thought that the things that they cared about were going to be, you know, they were willing to overlook. [16:43] I mean, listen to Tucker now. [16:45] Listen to Tucker talk about. [16:47] Do you believe him or do you think he's positioning himself for something? [16:51] Do you think that's authentic? [16:52] I don't know and I don't know whether I care whether or not I believe him. [16:56] But I'm going to go talk to him and I'm going to figure it out. [16:59] And I'm going to be able to sit across from him. [17:03] I mean, look, you've known Tucker for, you know, how many years? [17:08] I've known Tucker for 30 years. [17:11] I mean, it's not like we were friends, but I've known Tucker since I was in my 20s. [17:18] And I don't think that Tucker is a... [17:22] There's so many transformations of Tucker. [17:25] And I want to know what this last iteration is. [17:28] That's what I'm asking. [17:29] That's why I said, do you think it's up in there? [17:30] I'm going to go find out. [17:32] I'm going to go find out. [17:33] Let me ask you something. [17:36] How many times have you made a decision only to find out later that you didn't have all [17:41] the information? [17:43] Look, it happens in life. [17:44] It happens in politics and it happens in the news as well. [17:47] And it can happen when you're choosing a Medicare plan. [17:51] That's why I like Chapter. [17:52] Chapter is the only Medicare advisor that compares every Medicare plan available nationwide, [17:58] not just a select few, so you can see all your options before you make a decision. [18:03] And when people get the full picture, they often save money, on average, about $1,100 a year. [18:08] In fact, one of our audience members saved $6,000 a year on prescription costs alone after talking [18:16] with Chapter. [18:16] No pressure, no sales games, just people helping you understand your options. [18:21] So if you are turning 65 or you're already on Medicare, give Chapter about 20 minutes of [18:25] your time. [18:26] Consultation is free and it could save you a whole lot of money. [18:29] Call 212-931-0855 or visit askchapter.org slash Don to speak with someone today. [18:38] You're going to go talk to him? [18:39] Mm-hmm. [18:40] He's invited me to talk. [18:42] You think I should go talk to him? [18:43] Yeah, 100%. [18:44] I really do. [18:45] And the reason is this, is that one of the reasons that I'm doing this is I'm talking to [18:52] everybody. [18:52] And whether it's on the left or on the right or in the middle. [18:58] And the reason that I'm doing it is because I want to really get it. [19:02] I believe one, and I believe a lot of things, obviously. [19:07] I've got a lot to say. [19:09] But one of the things that I most strongly believe is I don't think that we are nearly [19:17] as divided as a country as we're being told that we are. [19:20] I agree with that 100%. [19:21] Yeah, because I go out on the street and I run into strangers, people. [19:28] And one of the things about it is the reason that they come up to me, it doesn't have anything [19:34] to do with politics. [19:35] It has to do with my story of recovery and addiction. [19:41] Yeah. [19:41] They know me as that. [19:43] And they now have heard me talk about that journey. [19:46] And 50 million Americans on a daily basis are suffering, still sick and suffering in their [19:52] addiction and their attempt towards recovery. [19:55] And which means that if 50 million Americans are stuck in, are in addiction, in the struggle [20:04] of addiction, then that means 350 million Americans are affected by it in some way. [20:09] There's not a single person I've ever met that has not had a personal story about how addiction [20:14] has impacted their own lives. [20:16] And so that's the avenue through which people feel that they have this connection, which [20:23] is beautiful to me, which is like, and in that, what I find is that all of the other [20:28] stuff that we've been told about how we are so separate and we don't agree and that there's [20:34] no way that we're going to find a way back towards each other and we're on the verge of [20:37] a civil war is, I think is, you know, a bunch of BS. [20:42] Now, I think that, I think that if we, if we don't figure out a path to be able to realize [20:50] that we are more connected than we are divided, then we are in for trouble. [20:54] And I'd like to be a part of the solution of being, you know, at least a part of the [20:57] conversation of, of making people realize we have a lot more in common than we don't, [21:02] than we have to separate. [21:03] I, I agree with you. [21:04] And you, you're changing my mind maybe about going into the lion's den because I said, [21:08] it's not worth my effort. [21:09] And my advisors say they get more out of it than you do. [21:12] Why would you, you know, expose yourself to that? [21:14] However, I defended you last night at dinner with, um, you know, when people were talking, [21:20] I said, Hey, I'm going to interview Hunter Biden tomorrow. [21:21] I'm really excited about it. [21:22] I've been wanting to meet him forever. [21:23] Yeah. [21:24] Um, as someone who had, who knows addiction, I'm not addiction. [21:28] I don't have any addictions, but my dealt with it with people in my family. [21:32] Yeah. [21:32] I like to take the stigma of addiction because how do we, how do people recover if you keep stigmatizing [21:38] them? [21:38] Right. [21:38] Yeah. [21:38] And if you, um, you just don't treat them as human. [21:42] And so there were people who were saying, Oh, why would you, you know, addict and whatever. [21:45] I'm like, yeah, but every, you know, we have many addicts in our society. [21:47] People are, there's every addiction is the same. [21:50] Um, if you are addicted to cigarettes, it's an addiction. [21:53] It's just a, it's an illness. [21:55] Um, the other thing is, who are you having dinner with is my question. [21:59] Oh, I was like, who am I having dinner with? [22:02] I want to talk to him. [22:04] I lost my train of thought, but I, I like to take the stigma off of addiction and off [22:07] of mental health. [22:08] If you're having a mental health issue, then go, you know, find some help. [22:11] Yeah. [22:12] But, um, so they were asking if, why is Hunter doing this? [22:16] Is he positioning himself to run for office and you should you run for office or be in [22:20] office if you have an addiction? [22:21] I'm here to announce. [22:22] I said, why, go ahead, tell me, what are you going to announce? [22:25] No, um, that I'm not running for any office. [22:27] Would you run for an office? [22:29] Uh, no, not right now. [22:31] That's for sure. [22:32] And not for any other reason than this is that I feel like right now I have this opportunity [22:37] to actually really impact the lives of a lot of people just by sharing my story. [22:42] Yeah. [22:42] And once I share my story and, and, and, and, and it is, and it is, uh, infected by partisan [22:50] politics that a lot of people just automatically turn off. [22:53] Right. [22:54] And so right now though, is that my audience is everybody. [22:58] Is it, if it, and, and a lot of what I talk about is for me, at least on like, it's like [23:03] platforms like X or otherwise is the, the politics is the bait for people to come in and listen [23:09] to my story, um, you know, uh, my, uh, as we say in the program that I'm a part of, uh, [23:14] my experience, strength, and hope as it relates to, no, we don't talk about it because it's [23:19] a, you know, it's kind of like a principle, but I, I'm in a 12-star program. [23:23] I respect that. [23:24] Yeah. [23:24] Yeah. [23:24] I respect that. [23:25] Yeah. [23:25] I remember what, um, what I was going to say is that you're right about when people, when [23:31] people walk up to me on the street, there are very, I mean, a few people who are like, [23:34] ah, Tom, I'm going to hate you, whatever. [23:35] But most of the time it's like, Hey, how are you? [23:38] Uh, can I get a selfie? [23:39] I don't agree with you politically, but you know, I think you're great or whatever. [23:42] Yeah. [23:43] And inevitably if I'm at a wedding or at some event, you know, someone, some bro, you [23:50] know, uh, Manosphere, Trump guy will come over and say, Hey, are you Don Lemon? [23:54] Blah, blah, blah. [23:55] And they'll start talking to me and they don't want a selfie. [23:56] And then he starts buying me beers and he goes, you're not like anything like I see on [24:00] television. [24:00] I say, because you're seeing a character that on Fox news, that's not necessarily me. [24:04] Yeah. [24:04] And so I believe the problem is we live in silos now, algorithms, Fox news, conservative [24:10] news. [24:11] They paint people into, you know, make them into characters that they are not. [24:15] Yeah. [24:15] And if you have an opportunity to meet those people, I don't know, maybe you're right. [24:20] Maybe you can change their minds. [24:21] In my experience, it's been my experience my whole life. [24:23] I think that we're in a completely different world than we've ever been in. [24:27] Um, and I, and I don't think it's a mystery of how we got there. [24:31] And, and if you look at, for instance, one of the things that I found the most shocking [24:37] over the past, uh, 10 years and within the last five years, actually, is, um, there was [24:47] a whistleblower that came forward to Congress from Meta, from Facebook. [24:52] And, uh, and remember she testified, I think it was at the end of 2022. [24:57] And she came over with a, um, uh, legally obtained as a whistle, under the whistleblower [25:02] act, uh, uh, internal documents from Meta, which showed that by their own investigation [25:09] internally, they found, and I don't hold me to the numbers, but they are, um, like around [25:16] what I am saying. [25:17] I'm not, this is not hyperbole. [25:19] Is that since the inception of Instagram, the, uh, the increase in teenage suicide among [25:30] girls has grown exponentially as well as even, uh, even greater than that has been the number [25:38] of girls between the ages of 14 and 17 years old that have, uh, sought, um, medical treatment [25:45] for self-harm has grown exponentially and Meta itself determined that it was a direct result [25:55] of the algorithms by which they are focusing on teenage girls. [26:03] Okay. [26:03] So what we find from this whistleblower is that literally the algorithms that are being supported [26:11] by platforms like Meta and all of the other ones are literally killing our children. [26:18] And you know what we did about it? [26:20] Nothing. [26:21] Nothing. [26:22] Nobody did a single damn thing. [26:27] Nobody. [26:28] And those same algorithms are the ones that are telling me. [26:32] And by the way, I'm, and it's not like I'm not, I'm, I'm immune to it. [26:35] We all have a pocket full of dopamine. [26:40] Literally, this is as dangerous as a pocket, as a, as a bag of heroin or crack in your pocket. [26:48] And every single moment that we're pulling it out, I'm being told that you're different [26:52] from me. [26:53] And the reason is, is because that's what makes money. [26:56] That's what, that's what gets the clicks. [26:57] Now I'm going to say something that, that, that people will say if they're watching this, [27:01] they'll say, well, your dad had an opportunity to do something about it. [27:03] Why not? [27:04] Why didn't he do something about it? [27:05] Because, and I'm not going to defend my dad or the administration or the Department of [27:09] Justice inability to go after meta, because I think that there is a, um, uh, that money [27:16] in politics is these singular, um, uh, if we could, if we could solve anything, it would [27:24] be that is because they're beholden, they're beholden. [27:27] They spend billions, hundreds of millions and millions and millions of dollars on lobbying [27:33] in DC on, uh, on, on funding campaigns, on, uh, directing, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, social [27:41] media campaigns, um, uh, against, um, uh, political actors. [27:45] Do you think people in Washington, because if you look at the, the Democratic Party, it's [27:49] people who are really don't understand social media, right? [27:53] They're just learning really how to use it. [27:55] You think that that may be the thing that keeps them from understanding it, that, you know, [27:59] it's a young man's game or a young woman's game and. [28:02] No, I think that there's a difference between understanding how to communicate over social [28:06] media and knowing how, what policy needs to be instituted in order for, um, uh, in, in [28:13] order for organizations like meta not to, um, literally kill our teenage girls. [28:19] When you see all of those folks, you know, um, the, uh, Mark Zuckerbergs and [28:24] Alton Musk and all those people sitting next to Trump in the East Room or in the Oval Office [28:32] and. [28:33] Or behind him at the inauguration. [28:34] Yeah. [28:34] Yeah. [28:35] And even, uh, what's his name from, from Apple? [28:38] Yeah. [28:39] Tim Cook. [28:39] Tim Cook. [28:40] Tim Apple, as Trump calls him. [28:41] Yeah. [28:42] Tim Apple. [28:42] What do you think of that? [28:43] I'm concerned about the consolidation of media right now, especially conservative media. [28:47] I think it's the, the, um, I, number one, I think we've already crossed the Rubicon, [28:54] um, is that the consolidation has occurred. [28:59] Uh, it, uh, it is almost complete. [29:02] It, the, I think that you literally can identify a handful of tech oligarchs that have now almost, [29:13] uh, uh, uh, complete control over the, um, the distribution streams of information in this [29:20] country. [29:21] And the idea that anyone is comfortable with that, regardless of what the names of those [29:27] people is, um, is really, really, really disturbing. [29:31] Yeah. [29:32] Um, and so I look and I, and I, and I, and I have friends at CNN and I have friends that, [29:38] uh, you know, I've friends in, in, uh, people that I've known, I don't know what they'd call [29:42] acquaintances that I respect. [29:45] And, um, and it is, there, there's, uh, I don't know how to, how to, to turn that back. [29:53] Were you friends with Jake Taffer? [29:56] No. [29:57] No. [29:57] Well, I knew Jake forever. [29:58] I've known Jake, Jake for 25 years. [29:59] How'd you feel about the book? [30:01] Um, look, here's what I'd like to say about that is I think that, um, uh, Jake is a, um, [30:14] is a complete and utter, uh, asshole. [30:20] I think that he is, um, I think that he is a, um, uh, a really poor journalist. [30:27] And I, and beyond that, I don't think he's a, a, a very decent human being as, as a, as a [30:33] person, I don't, I don't like Jake. [30:35] And so I guess what normally someone when asked a question like that, like me is supposed [30:40] to say is like, oh, well, you know, here's how I feel about it. [30:44] I think he's full of fucking shit. [30:46] That's what I think. [30:47] You think Jake Taffer is full of shit? [30:49] I think he is the Brick Tamlin of his generation. [30:51] Yeah. [30:52] Yeah. [30:53] I know Jake's a former colleague. [30:55] Oh, I know. [30:55] I know you do. [30:56] Yeah. [30:56] Yeah. [30:57] Yeah. [30:57] And I, and I, and I, I don't know what you think of Jake, but I do know this is that [31:02] what Jake espoused and has continued in the way that he has spoken about me, the way he [31:08] has spoken about my mother, the way that he has spoken about my father, if the idea that [31:14] I would tell you and be full of shit, like everybody else usually is and say, well, you [31:18] know, I, I'd like to respect Jake's long career in journalism and, you know, he's done [31:23] good things before, you know what? [31:25] I don't have to say that I'm not running for anything. [31:27] I'm not, you know, I'm certainly not running for class president and I'm not running to [31:30] be the most popular man in, uh, you know, on, on TV. [31:33] And so that's the way I feel about Jake because I have a real personal grief, uh, grievance [31:39] with him. [31:40] What would you say to him if you, I don't have to say, I'd say exactly what I just said. [31:46] Yeah. [31:48] You said, I have Jake, I do not like you. [31:52] I don't like you at all. [31:53] And I have a whole host of reasons why. [31:57] And that's final. [31:59] There you go. [32:00] Looking directly into the camera. [32:02] Yeah. [32:02] You recently said something very similar, although a bit stronger about, uh, Donald Trump, if you [32:08] had the opportunity to say something to him or if you sat next to him somehow or was in [32:11] his company. [32:12] Yeah. [32:13] And I, and you know, I, I got to stop using the, uh, the F word as much as I do. [32:21] Right. [32:21] Because my mom says the same thing and then she'll tell me, she said, you got to stop cussing [32:26] so much. [32:26] She don't say, and then I talked to Barbara and Barbara said, she loves it when you cuss. [32:30] So, exactly. [32:32] So I don't, um, you know, I, I, I say, um, like I, I, I definitely feel like my, um, my, [32:42] uh, cussing is well-earned. [32:44] So I'll be clear. [32:46] You said you would tell Donald Trump to go fuck himself. [32:50] Yeah. [32:50] Yeah. [32:51] And, uh, and would anybody expect anything differently? [32:54] I mean, really? [32:55] I mean, number one, here's the reason why is because I don't think that there's any potential [33:01] or possibility of a productive conversation with someone who's incapable of telling the [33:07] truth or being self-reflective. [33:09] So if I had a conversation with someone like, for instance, that's not what I'll say to [33:16] Tucker. [33:18] That's not what I'll say to Nick, even Nick Quintus. [33:20] That's not even what I will say to, and I made this, and, and I'm by example to Kansas [33:26] but it is what I would say to Donald Trump, because I think he is entirely incapable of [33:33] having any self-awareness or being in any way, uh, having a productive, honest conversation. [33:42] I feel that way, similar. [33:45] I feel how you feel about Donald Trump to, for people like Candace. [33:49] I've spoken to her. [33:50] I would speak to her again. [33:51] I would not, um, I would not socially do anything with Donald Trump, but I would sit down and [33:57] interview him. [33:57] Right. [33:58] And, but it would be a journalist. [33:59] That, that, yeah. [34:00] That's a very different thing. [34:01] It's a different thing. [34:02] Is it, is it, that, that's it, I, I'm not a journalist. [34:04] I'm, and, I, and I never pretend to have the, um, uh, any aspiration to, um, to, to be. [34:11] So if the question really is, on a human level, what would you say to, to this, to Donald [34:16] Trump, if he were to sit across from me right now, my honest, honest answer is exactly [34:21] what I, what I have said. [34:23] Which is, you don't want to say it. [34:25] Yeah. [34:25] Oh no, go fuck yourself. [34:27] Yeah. [34:27] So here's, I, um. [34:29] Not you, him. [34:30] Yeah, I know. [34:30] I know. [34:31] I got it. [34:32] Thank you for that clarification. [34:33] Um, I feel a similar way about Lindsey Graham. [34:37] I'm sorry. [34:38] And because. [34:38] You don't have to be sorry to me. [34:40] Yeah. [34:40] Because that's what I was saying to Maisie, my daughter, she's like, she made the same [34:43] point. [34:43] Like, hey dad, don't you care about this? [34:45] Yeah. [34:45] Yeah. [34:46] Because they're saying, she, he's saying, or he, and he's one of us and he's saying that [34:50] we should not exist. [34:51] Yeah. [34:51] And we shouldn't have the same rights. [34:52] Yeah. [34:52] And, but I don't, I don't understand. [34:54] And I don't believe in outing people. [34:55] But if you, if you're a hypocrite, yeah, you should be fucking outed. [34:59] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. [35:01] Now, here's something that I have learned. [35:03] Life doesn't ask you if you're ready. [35:05] It just keeps coming. [35:07] And sometimes what it brings feels too heavy to carry by yourself. [35:11] That's one of the reasons that asking for help really matters. [35:14] It's not weakness. [35:15] It's one of the healthiest decisions that you can actually make. [35:18] BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report found that 85% of Americans believe getting support [35:23] is a wise decision. [35:24] Yet 74% say society still discourages people from doing it. [35:29] Those two numbers shouldn't both be true. [35:32] BetterHelp makes getting started simple. [35:34] The therapists are fully licensed. [35:36] They'll match you with someone based on your needs. [35:38] And if it isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime. [35:42] With more than 30,000 therapists and over 6 million people served, they've helped a lot [35:47] of people take that first step. [35:48] So if you have been thinking about talking to someone, maybe today is the day. [35:52] Get 10% off of your first month at betterhelp.com slash Don Lemon. [35:57] That's betterhelp.com slash Don Lemon. [36:00] Why did people not say anything in D.C.? [36:04] I don't know. [36:04] You would know as well as I do. [36:06] I mean, really, you know all of these people. [36:09] You know the stories behind them. [36:11] You get information as a journalist that I don't even get. [36:14] You know why I have none of your colleagues out at these people when they absolutely know. [36:20] And I don't know. [36:21] I think that part of it has to do with something that is real. [36:27] Is that it is really, really, really dangerous to go down the path of outing anyone for any [36:34] reason because of the horror and the history of it. [36:37] Well, I think that's why. [36:39] But if you're a hypocrite, it's different. [36:41] Oh, I don't disagree. [36:43] But again, I think that at least in a newsroom, okay, and I don't know, you tell me, in the [36:51] newsroom, you'd still, you'd have the editor to sit there and go, we can't do this. [36:56] Well, they'd say, what's your proof? [36:57] Like, did you catch him in bed with anyone? [36:59] And you hear stories. [37:00] I hear stories that he would be at parties and he would invite people to, do you need [37:04] a ride home? [37:06] You know? [37:07] Yeah. [37:08] Yeah. [37:08] So from that perspective, but by the way, it's not like people outside of, you know, [37:15] of journalism that have to thankfully abide by those rules that you have to abide by. [37:21] I have not been saying that about a number of people. [37:24] And the only reason I say it is for the thing that you point out about it. [37:29] Not just the hypocrisy, but I really do feel that one of the things that we're experiencing [37:36] is people that have no respect for themselves. [37:40] And because of that, their capacity towards empathy towards anyone else is greatly, greatly [37:50] diminished. [37:51] I mean, psychologically, I understand it. [37:53] I understand that you are unable to express who you truly are and that self-hatred is turned [38:05] against the world. [38:06] And I think it's a real thing without diminishing any of the personal experiences that any of [38:13] them have gone through or their right to privacy about their own sexuality. [38:16] It's kind of like none of us care. [38:18] Like you're the only one who cares. [38:21] And in your concern for it is that what you've done is decide to take it out on all the rest [38:27] of us. [38:28] Well, it's mind boggling because you're operating in a system that doesn't believe that you [38:32] should exist. [38:32] And then you were saying to yourself, like, I guess I shouldn't. [38:35] It's a, it's, I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but it's crazy. [38:39] Um, so can we just gossip a little bit? [38:42] Did you, did you ever know anyone? [38:45] Did you, were there stories about him and call boys and hookers or any of that? [38:48] No, no, no, no. [38:49] I mean, look, I'm, I'm just enough people that I've, um, yeah, I've been around. [38:55] It's just that it was kind of like, accept it. [38:57] Yeah. [38:57] Yeah. [38:58] Um, yeah, by the way, it's not just, look, who else? [39:02] Yeah, no, I'm not going to like, uh, I'm already in enough lawsuits, Tom. [39:09] Allegedly. [39:10] Allegedly. [39:12] Allegedly. [39:12] Who else? [39:13] Allegedly. [39:14] Who else? [39:14] Is, I'm not going to do this. [39:17] Can you give me initials? [39:20] I'm not doing it. [39:22] You give me, you know, as well as I do. [39:25] I mean, are you asking me if Josh Hawley's gay? [39:29] Yes. [39:29] Are you asking me if Stephen Miller's gay? [39:31] Yes. [39:31] Yeah. [39:32] I don't know. [39:33] I don't know. [39:34] I really don't know. [39:35] Okay. [39:35] Let me tell you this. [39:36] Are you asking me if Speaker Johnson's gay? [39:38] Uh, yeah. [39:39] Okay. [39:39] I personally, I don't know. [39:42] Yeah. [39:43] So. [39:43] Yeah. [39:44] So let me just. [39:45] Give me another minute and I come up with six more names. [39:47] Um, I got a, I used to get a, my, my gaydar would ping with. [39:52] By the way, wait, wait, wait, I got to do this because I got, no, I got, yeah. [39:55] Yeah. [39:56] Yeah. [39:56] Come on. [39:57] Yeah. [39:57] And I got to step back because really, for real, it's important to me. [40:02] My generation, one of the singular kind of like defining civil rights issues, at least [40:12] that we were, were focused on when I got into like late high school, college and beyond in [40:19] my, my, my, my younger years was LGBTQ rights. [40:24] We, I'm 56. [40:26] It was the, the, the coming out of the closet when I was in high school was still a thing [40:33] that was like, it took an enormous amount of courage, took an enormous amount of courage [40:39] to, to, to be, to do that. [40:42] And so for me, LGBTQ rights were kind of like our like civil rights, um, in, in the sense [40:51] of like, uh, it, it, it was incredibly important. [40:55] And, and there was a fault line that you, that you've, that you fell on before it was [41:00] okay, you know, before will and grace, as my dad would say, you know? [41:04] And so when I talk about this, the one thing that is, I'm still like, I reflect upon is [41:13] like, I think you never said like, oh, he's gay unless they wanted you to say he's gay [41:22] because you want it to protect their privacy because you realize that the, the, the pain [41:27] that you could cause them doing that. [41:29] Now we've gotten over that, but I'm still kind of stuck in my generational piece of, of, [41:34] of wanting to respect people's privacy about, about their sexuality. [41:38] I'm with you. [41:39] We're, we're basically the same age. [41:40] I'm a little bit older than you. [41:41] So I know exactly what you're talking about. [41:43] Do you know Jen Welch? [41:45] Jennifer Welch? [41:46] Oh yeah, of course. [41:47] I just, I just was with you. [41:48] Yeah. [41:49] So she's a friend. [41:49] We taped yesterday. [41:50] She told me that she, she interviewed, uh, with you and we do something every week. [41:54] We have a show together every week and we play this game called Top or Bottom. [41:57] Yeah. [42:00] Stephen Miller. [42:01] Dude. [42:01] Top or Bottom. [42:02] Oh, dude. [42:03] You two can play that. [42:05] You two can play that game. [42:06] Yeah. [42:07] Mike Johnson. [42:08] Top or Bottom. [42:08] Out of the room. [42:10] I'm like, oh jeez, you're making me like, oh, oh. [42:14] I just talked to Kravod on either side. [42:17] Yeah. [42:17] So let me just be, um, just candid. [42:20] Yeah. [42:20] That's one of the reasons I love your dad is because he pushed, influenced President [42:27] Obama on same-sex marriage. [42:29] Yeah. [42:29] And that's one reason. [42:31] And we can talk a little bit more about that. [42:33] The other reason is, sorry, after my sister died in 2018, I'm sitting in my living room [42:44] by myself and the phone rings. [42:48] And I usually don't answer numbers that are not, you know, and I said, it's 202. [42:52] And I'm like, okay, what is it? [42:54] And I answered, I said, hello. [42:55] And they said, hey, it's a blah, blah, blah from the vice president's office. [42:58] I'm like, who the fuck is this? [43:01] Yeah. [43:01] And they're like, no, this is like the vice president wants to talk to you. [43:04] And I'm like, come on, who the fuck is this? [43:07] He said, can we call you back? [43:08] I said, sure, whatever, I didn't. [43:10] And then boom, the phone rings. [43:12] It's your dad. [43:14] Yeah. [43:14] 45 minutes offering me words of comfort. [43:17] Yeah. [43:18] And he's the vice president of the United States. [43:20] He did not have to do that. [43:22] No. [43:22] He was the vice president. [43:23] This was 2018. [43:24] He didn't have to do that. [43:25] Yeah. [43:25] I will, no matter what, forever love your dad. [43:30] Yeah. [43:30] So. [43:31] I appreciate that. [43:32] Sorry. [43:32] So, no, you're going to make me cry. [43:34] Yeah, I know. [43:35] Because he knows grief and we, he knows how to comfort people. [43:40] We don't have that anymore. [43:41] No. [43:41] Yeah. [43:42] Well, that, the, the thing that I say is that the fundamental difference of my dad of anybody [43:46] that has been in that office before without denigrating or diminishing this particular [43:52] uh, uh, trait and the great traits that many presidents had before him is, is, uh, is my [44:03] dad, uh, empathy isn't, isn't even the right word. [44:08] And he's the, the, the greatest role model of how to be a man of anyone that I haven't [44:21] met, not just a father, but a man. [44:25] And the reason being is that then what I've found, and I'm like, I, I'm grateful for my [44:33] whole life every day for this reason is that all my people would people like that, that [44:39] you were at dinner with perceived as my fuck ups and the, you know, which also include like [44:45] the, the things I had no control over the traumas in my life are the things that have [44:49] now allowed me to be of service and connect with other people. [44:53] And when I say of service, I don't mean like I'm a saint and like I'm of service to people. [44:58] I mean it this way is what I recognized in my dad and what he always taught me is he, he [45:04] does like those phone calls, the phone call he made to you. [45:08] I'm, I'm not exaggeration over the course of my life. [45:10] He probably does three of those, you know, uh, a day. [45:14] But you know, he didn't say, Hey Don, it's the vice president. [45:16] He said, Hey Don, it's Joe. [45:17] Yeah, no, exactly. [45:18] And my point is, is, is, is you know what he taught me? [45:23] It's selfish on his part, selfish on my part that I stay connected with people in recovery [45:30] and talk to them every day because you know what? [45:32] It makes me feel connected. [45:34] It makes me feel like whatever loss that I went through and the grief that I went through [45:37] and the struggle that I went through is related to my recovery is, is not for nothing. [45:42] is that like, I know I seen him uplifted by giving of himself and that, that's what I'm [45:50] talking about. [45:51] When I talk about being of service to other people, it's not because I have some courage [45:56] or that he, I've realized that watching my dad, it is the thing that, that it made him [46:04] makes him, it a truly amazing human being, human being. [46:11] Yeah. [46:11] How's your dad? [46:12] He's okay. [46:14] You know, when I, and I say that and I kind of look off wistfully is because cancer is [46:20] really hard, man. [46:22] You say, okay, you're not saying great. [46:23] What do you mean? [46:23] No. [46:24] Okay. [46:24] He's got stage four metastatic bone cancer. [46:27] Um, you know, and this is all public because he talks about it publicly. [46:30] Otherwise it wouldn't, um, violate his privacy is that, um, it's really hard. [46:36] The treatment is, it's not fun. [46:38] Um, you know, he went through the radiation. [46:41] Uh, he went, uh, uh, uh, [46:44] and now he's on, you know, kind of the hormone therapy, which is really tire you out. [46:49] And the thing I worry about with my dad is that, um, he just never complains, but I know, [46:55] I mean, I can, I can hear it in his voice. [46:58] And, um, and so it's, it is hard. [47:01] It's really hard. [47:02] And now the checkups are coming up great. [47:04] And I know they released, you know, all this stuff that, um, but he's got stage four metastatic [47:11] bone cancer, you know, in the, in the, the PSA levels have gone down and he had stage four [47:16] prostate cancer, which, uh, they've successfully treated, but. [47:20] Think he's going to be okay. [47:24] Um, the honest answer to that is, uh, no, ultimately he's not, man. [47:33] Anybody with stage four metastatic bone cancer, there's no curing it. [47:38] You know, it becomes a waiting game. [47:42] Do you think he stayed in too long? [47:44] You think he should have gotten out earlier? [47:47] No. [47:47] Um, I don't, but I believe my dad can hang the moon, you know? [47:52] And, um, and I believe that, uh, and I know this for certain. [47:57] I know my dad had the capacity to do the job that he set out to do, um, as president. [48:05] And I know that because the evidence is there because of what he did do when he was president, [48:12] because there is no evidence of him not being able or having the capacity intellectually or [48:20] otherwise to perform the job that he was elected to do. [48:23] And I think that my dad getting out after the debate was probably the, at least singular [48:32] acts of, of, uh, political courage by anybody that's ever held that office. [48:38] I don't know. [48:38] And you can tell me, and I, and actually I know that I'm not wrong of anybody that as [48:44] president that willingly, um, relinquished, uh, power in the way that my dad did by saying [48:52] that he would not seek reelection after he got COVID after that debate. [48:56] And, um, and did my dad lose a step when he was president? [49:01] Literally a physical step? [49:03] Yeah, he did. [49:04] Did he lose a step, uh, uh, mentally and intellectually? [49:08] No, he didn't. [49:09] And there's no evidence otherwise that he did. [49:12] There's, I mean, look, and also the talk, you want to talk about hypocrisy. [49:15] The hypocrisy of, uh, the daily, um, uh, um, instances of Donald Trump, uh, doing something [49:27] that is, uh, you know, uh, verifiably, um, like moronic. [49:36] I want to, I want to talk about that, but I just want to get back to your, because you [49:40] know what folks are saying? [49:41] Well, you know, it was, he stayed in too long. [49:44] It wasn't the right decision for the country that, you know, your mom, Jill, that was pushing [49:48] him to stay and that sort of, you've heard that stuff. [49:51] I have absolutely heard it. [49:52] I've heard it from Jake Tapper. [49:54] And, and here, like here, here's, I can make a lie out of all of that is this. [50:00] They, they report and they talk about how I was pushing my dad from inside the White House [50:05] that I'd like moved in, that I was in the Oval Office, just all lies, absolutely total, [50:10] complete lies of anyone that would have an interest in him not running again. [50:19] Is there anyone that you can think of that would benefit more from their father, from, [50:24] from my dad not being president than me? [50:28] Anybody? [50:30] No. [50:30] By the way, to the degree of this is that my dad ran and he was still president. [50:35] There's no way that he would have pardoned me because he would have trusted in the Department [50:39] of Justice to actually treat it at least fairly and the Department of Corrections and the Department [50:46] of Probation to be under the control of at least someone who believed in the rule of law [50:51] and the Constitution. [50:51] He would have believed in the process of appeal of which the Supreme Court just overturned the [50:57] 922 G3 as unconstitutional of which I was convicted of. [51:01] He would have believed in the process. [51:03] So, who would have had more interest personally to gain from saying, we've had enough than [51:11] me? [51:12] Now, however, Jake and, you know, whoever else he tries to convince has, you know, keeps [51:19] espousing this bullshit, not based on any on the record source whatsoever, is that I was [51:26] in there saying, you got to run, you got to run. [51:28] The exact opposite is true. [51:30] 100% outside. [51:31] Now, did I tell him not to? [51:32] Yeah. [51:33] No, I didn't. [51:34] And I didn't tell him not to because I know this, is that my dad, more than the only thing [51:42] that supersedes his devotion to country and service is his devotion to me and my family. [51:55] And he's clear about that. [51:57] If I had said to my dad, dad, you got to drop out, I would never, because of me, [52:06] You think he would have if you said so? [52:09] I don't know whether he would have or not, but I do know this, is that it would weigh [52:15] heavy, heavier on my heart than anything if I had weighed in in one way or another definitively. [52:25] What I said to my dad, I'll tell you exactly what I said to my dad. [52:27] I said, dad, whatever you decide I support, I will tell you this, is that you never feel [52:39] like you haven't done enough. [52:40] You've fought harder for this country than any person that I've ever met in my life. [52:43] You care more about it. [52:44] You've had a more successful presidency on every level than anyone in my lifetime that [52:51] I can think of. [52:52] You've passed more important legislation, more legislation, period, bipartisan legislation [52:57] than any president since Lyndon Johnson. [53:00] You ever finish a book and immediately think, I wish more people would read this? [53:03] Well, that's how I felt about Bullies, Parasites, and Slaves, Replacing Exploitation with Mutual [53:08] Care by George Koch. [53:11] The book asks a simple question. [53:13] Why do so many systems reward exploitation instead of cooperation? [53:16] George Koch draws on history, real-world examples, and his own experience as a technology executive [53:22] to explain how many of us end up underpaid, overworked, and discouraged from questioning [53:29] the system. [53:30] But what I like most is that he doesn't stop with the diagnosis. [53:34] He offers another way to think about building a society based on mutual care instead of exploitation. [53:40] Whether you read it in paperback, digitally, or listen to the audiobook, it's worth your time. [53:45] And if you genuinely can't afford it, guess what? [53:48] It's available, free. [53:50] Go to BPS online or text BULLY to 511-511. [53:54] That's BULLY, B-U-L-L-Y, to 511-511. [53:57] Text fees may apply. [53:59] So I agree with you. [54:01] Do you think that the, not necessarily your dad, but the PR team, the apparatus, that [54:06] they didn't do a good enough job? [54:08] They did a horrible job. [54:09] Yeah, because if you look at the chips, the infrastructure, the... [54:13] They did a horrible job. [54:14] And I mean, like, not only a horrible job. [54:17] I think that, like, one of the things that I know about, that I'm absolutely positive about [54:23] politics, that I've always known, is that in order to be truly successful, you not only [54:29] have to be competent, you have to be able to communicate that competence. [54:32] And they did an absolutely horrible job of it. [54:36] Because, you know, I think they got lazy over the fact that my dad was such an effective [54:42] communicator. [54:43] And that communication was completely obfuscated by the fact that his voice got lower. [54:51] And he talked like this, and he had lost debt. [54:55] And his ability to forcefully communicate in the way that he had in the past, just by [55:00] virtue of age, not by virtue of intellectual capacity, was less. [55:04] That's what I would say to people when they'd ask me about your dad. [55:07] I would say, we should all be so lucky to get to the point where it's going to happen [55:13] to all of us. [55:14] That doesn't mean your mind is going. [55:16] And we better get used to it, right? [55:17] Yeah, it's true. [55:18] Because we're living longer, and people are going to be in the workforce longer, and [55:22] they're going to be involved and engaged in lives because of the capacity to continue [55:27] to do a job, because our physical capacity to do it. [55:32] You know, I got in trouble at CNN for defending your dad. [55:35] Oh, I know you did. [55:36] For Nikki Haley. [55:37] Yeah. [55:37] And she said he should, whatever, and about age. [55:39] And what I meant was, is that when I said she wasn't in her prime, is that I didn't think [55:45] that. [55:45] No one says that. [55:46] No one puts that on the transcript. [55:47] It's in the transcript. [55:48] I don't think that that's what society thinks. [55:50] And she should be careful about discriminating against people when women have been discriminated [55:56] against for so long. [55:57] And then, you know, and then CNN use it for whatever. [55:59] But the thing is, is that if you, I want to get back to this thing with your dad. [56:03] Do you wish you had told him to get out? [56:05] Or would you have, what would you have, what did you want to say? [56:08] Did you ever want to say, dad, don't do it? [56:10] Oh, no. [56:10] Without saying it. [56:11] There's never something that goes unsaid between me and my dad. [56:14] Nothing. [56:15] And I have no regrets whatsoever. [56:16] I 100% know this, is that I'm with my dad. [56:27] If my dad said that, you know, we're all going to, you know, do a kamikaze mission to, I would [56:37] be with my dad, not because I'm blind or stupid or that I, because I know that he never would [56:43] ever do anything that he thought that was in direct opposition to the interest of the people [56:50] that he loves the most in the country that he loves the most. [56:53] What were you thinking as you were watching that debate? [56:56] That something was very off. [56:58] And now I know what it was. [57:00] My dad has stage four prostate cancer. [57:04] He'd just flown over, I don't know, 16, 18,000 miles over the course of three weeks. [57:10] And obviously, I mean, he came out and look, here's what, here's what was so stunning about [57:15] it is that, you know, I almost feel like Donald Trump falls asleep in front of us in order [57:23] to like, let's talk about that, to adjust us to like, what is clearly the fact that he [57:29] is having a health issue. [57:31] I think it is congestive heart failure, but this is because I am, you know, I'm not because [57:40] I've gone to medical school in between the time, but my point about my dad is he walked [57:45] out on that stage and everybody knows Joe Biden to be an effective debater and to walk [57:54] out with energy and he can be combative. [57:57] I mean, over the course of the time that every time he ran for president, the one thing that [58:01] stood out about Joe Biden is he was the best debater on that stage. [58:06] And so when he walked out, you can see it in his eyes, is that it was like, he was like [58:13] a deer in the headlights in it. [58:14] And I knew immediately that something was up. [58:16] And I, and, and, you know, I know my mom said, oh, they thought she, and the stroke or [58:20] things like that. [58:21] I didn't think that, but I knew like, and by the way, I've never seen that since. [58:26] I haven't seen that in my dad since. [58:30] That moment was singular. [58:33] I have not seen my dad in any, in, in any scenario in which it was like that. [58:40] And so I don't know. [58:42] Um, but I do know is that he finished the debate. [58:46] He made it through the debate. [58:48] The first 15 minutes were a complete and utter, like my heart dropped, like what is going [58:53] on? [58:54] And then after, you know, he, and then the media set a bunch of hurdles for him to trust. [59:02] First, it was the George Stephanopoulos interview, which he did for an hour and a half. [59:06] And then it was the, uh, NATO summit press conference in which he gave a tour de force [59:11] about, you know, foreign policy for an hour and a half to 300, um, you know, journalists. [59:16] And then it was the NAACP speech in which he went out and he gave this rousing speech. [59:22] And, and by the way, everybody forgets at that same time is that, you know, these are [59:26] weeks, like a couple of weeks that have gone by in which you have like in the elite inner [59:33] Georgetown set, as I call them with the democratic party that are connected to the funders that [59:39] are saying he needs to drop out and, and creating a little cabal to make that happen. [59:44] But meanwhile, the black caucus, Latino caucus, the progressive caucus, every single one of [59:50] them was stood by Joe Biden. [59:52] AOC was out there saying he's got to stay in. [59:54] Bernie was out there saying he's got to stay in. [59:57] You had Congressman Clyburn saying he had to, uh, that he was the nominee and he's staying [1:00:03] in. [1:00:03] And then he got COVID right after that NAACP speech. [1:00:06] He was supposed to go, um, the next day to, um, uh, one of the Latino organizations, a national [1:00:13] convention in, and give a speech in, in Vegas. [1:00:16] And I had been at the NAACP speech just to like see him and give him a hug because I came [1:00:21] from LA and I left and I went back and I got a call in the morning from, uh, somebody in [1:00:27] his staff and saying, he's not doing well. [1:00:29] And, uh, they tested him for COVID. [1:00:31] He had COVID and he, he looked awful and he had to go down for two days and literally sleep [1:00:37] for two days. [1:00:38] And, um, and after that, uh, he had to make a decision and think about that. [1:00:45] You ever, you ever know somebody in his position willing to give up? [1:00:48] No. [1:00:49] That. [1:00:50] Do you think he would have won? [1:00:52] Yeah. [1:00:52] Yeah. [1:00:53] You do. [1:00:53] Yeah. [1:00:54] Yeah. [1:00:54] I think my dad can run a four, four 42. [1:00:57] I mean, I like, so what do you care? [1:00:59] What I, what, what, what I believe, but yeah, of course I think my dad could have won. [1:01:02] Yeah. [1:01:02] Do you, by the way, the same way that I thought my dad could win when everybody at CNN from [1:01:08] David Axelrod to Rahm Emanuel to Jake, to everybody at Fox news and everybody at MSNBC for that [1:01:16] matter, we're saying that my dad would never win the 2020 and that, you know, he's going [1:01:21] to come in fifth in Iowa and fourth in New Hampshire and he's not going to win Nevada [1:01:24] and he can't, um, he can't match Michael Bloomberg's money and he won. [1:01:29] He, not only did he win, he got 81 million votes more than anybody that's ever run for [1:01:32] president. [1:01:32] Do you think not getting out affected his legacy? [1:01:38] No, I don't think ultimately at the end of the day, and this isn't delusional thinking [1:01:41] on my part. [1:01:42] I think at the end of the day, Joe Biden's presidency will be judged by what he actually [1:01:46] did, what he was able to achieve. [1:01:48] And by the virtue of the man that he, he was the actual man. [1:01:53] And he did not usher in this sort of thing that we have that, or take us back to a Trump. [1:01:58] Well, he ushered us out. [1:01:59] The question is, did we, did we go, uh, uh, did we follow him, uh, as a, as an, as a [1:02:06] country, uh, out of it permanently? [1:02:10] I, I look, the singular greatest mistake I think that my dad made was appointing Merrick [1:02:16] Garland to, uh, as attorney general. [1:02:19] A lot of people I know will agree with that. [1:02:20] And I, and, and this isn't a personal line. [1:02:23] I, I knew Merrick Garland, um, you know, uh, as a fellow dad on the sidelines that my girls, [1:02:29] uh, soccer games, um, way before he was attorney general. [1:02:32] I think the mistake was this, is that Merrick Garland was a, a federal appeals court judge. [1:02:38] And the only people that have better judgment than the federal appeals court judge, according [1:02:43] to federal appeals court judges, are, are potentially maybe sometimes God. [1:02:47] And so when he came to the department of justice, what he did, which I think was a, um, uh, an [1:02:55] affront to the, to the, uh, to the, to his mandate as attorney general was he made a political [1:03:02] judgment. [1:03:03] And the political judgment he made was, is that while Donald Trump clearly broke the [1:03:08] law and incited an insurrection, and we all know it because we all watched it and we all [1:03:14] watched him actually say the words, it's not a question. [1:03:18] What he decided that was that the country politically couldn't withstand that. [1:03:23] He made a political decision. [1:03:25] And then he was dragged back into actually going forward with the, with the, with the prosecution [1:03:31] only for one reason is because Donald Trump was so incredibly obstinate about the documents [1:03:38] that he had stolen from the white house. [1:03:39] That's what drug, that's what dragged us back in to Jack Smith becoming special counsel as [1:03:47] the documents case, which then spread into the insurrection. [1:03:51] He should have moved faster. [1:03:52] That's what everyone says. [1:03:53] He should have, he should have opened up an official investigation. [1:03:59] I mean, it's crazy that I'm even saying that remember he never opened up an investigation [1:04:03] into the insurrection and the storming of the Capitol. [1:04:07] They prosecuted the low level people, the people that, by the way, even more so opening [1:04:13] up the criticism of like, you're going after, you know, Jane and John Doe who came from Poughkeepsie [1:04:19] and didn't realize that they were going to get swept up into the Capitol. [1:04:23] You know, instead of going after, you know, Enrique Terrio directly in his connection to people [1:04:29] inside the white house, instead of going after Steve Bannon, instead of going after Jack Maxey, [1:04:34] instead of going after Patrick Byrne and all of the people that orchestrated it, they waited [1:04:42] until the, you know, you had to go through all the hearings in the house side. [1:04:46] Yeah. [1:04:47] And by the. [1:04:47] Still didn't do anything until the documents case. [1:04:49] Yeah. [1:04:50] It's crazy. [1:04:51] Yeah. [1:04:51] I didn't understand Merrick Garland. [1:04:53] Your dad, he believes in the independence of the Justice Department. [1:04:56] He didn't say anything to. [1:04:57] No, a hundred percent. [1:04:59] And that, and by the way, and so therefore, and so when I say it was a single biggest mistake [1:05:04] on his part is that once the die was cast and Merrick Garland was named, then by virtue [1:05:13] of the fact that my belief, my dad believes in the separation of powers in the Chinese wall, [1:05:18] that's a, I think a thing you're not supposed to say anymore, a wall between the church and [1:05:24] state, between the executive and the Department of Justice, that he had no control over that. [1:05:30] And you know how I have evidence of that? [1:05:33] I got indicted twice after I had a plea agreement, after I had a deal, a special counsel was appointed [1:05:41] by Merrick Garland. [1:05:42] And then I had to go to trial as a son of the president. [1:05:45] And whether you think of it or not, all one thing that does prove is that my dad never [1:05:49] picked up the phone and called Merrick Garland or anybody in the Department of Justice or [1:05:53] anybody in this White House. [1:05:55] You think he made the right decision by pardoning you? [1:05:57] A hundred percent. [1:05:58] Thank God. [1:06:00] Yeah. [1:06:00] I mean, I know people expect me to also go like, well, here's the one thing I know. [1:06:04] I am incredibly grateful for that pardon, particularly in light of what is happening right now, [1:06:09] particularly in watching Donald Trump indict you and go after you because you were covering [1:06:15] a protest that found its way into a church. [1:06:18] And I know that I'm not going to ask you to comment on it because you shouldn't comment [1:06:21] on it as your, as your disbarred attorney, I'm going to tell you not to. [1:06:25] But by virtue of the fact of Donald Trump going after James Comey, by virtue of the fact of [1:06:30] Donald Trump indicting, going after John Brennan, by virtue of the fact of John Brennan going [1:06:36] after Adam Schiff, sitting as a senator, by virtue of the fact that if my dad had not pardoned [1:06:43] me, then Donald Trump would have his claws into my family for however long he held power. [1:06:51] And so what would my dad write about Trump in his book if he knew that I was under the [1:06:57] supervision of the Department of Probation, who, while you're under the supervision of [1:07:01] the Department of Probation, you have no Fourth Amendment rights. [1:07:04] They can enter your house whenever they want. [1:07:07] They can come into your breadwinner when you're sleeping. [1:07:10] They can walk into your bathroom when you're sitting, you know, brushing your teeth in the [1:07:15] mirror. [1:07:16] They can go through whatever they want. [1:07:17] They can stop you in your car. [1:07:19] They can do anything that they want to do. [1:07:21] They can do anything that they want to do. [1:07:24] So if he knew that his son, that Donald Trump would have that control over his family, [1:07:29] what would you do? [1:07:32] How are you doing? [1:07:32] How's your recovery? [1:07:33] Uh, uh, great. [1:07:37] For real. [1:07:38] I'm, um, you know, I always hesitate with that, um, question because you don't necessarily [1:07:43] want to say, I'm doing great. [1:07:45] Everything's fine. [1:07:46] So, so, you know, the cocaine they found in the, in the, in the White House was not yours. [1:07:50] By the way, can we talk about that for a second? [1:07:52] For real, you've been to the White House. [1:07:53] Okay. [1:07:54] Yeah. [1:07:54] So when you come in through the East, um, uh, entrance, uh, I mean, excuse me, of the, [1:08:00] the West Wing entrance, the executive, uh, Avenue right there. [1:08:03] You know, you come in under family never comes in over there because that's where the office [1:08:10] is are. [1:08:11] And that's where the Oval Office is. [1:08:12] And anyway, when you come in, there's a guard that sits at that desk and you go to the right. [1:08:18] One way is the, is the private dining for the White House, uh, Oval Office staff. [1:08:24] And then there's the, the door for the, um, situation room. [1:08:30] And the only people that go through the situation room are people with top secret, um, uh, security [1:08:38] clearances. [1:08:39] Yeah. [1:08:39] And there's a wall and it has cubbies, little like box cubbies. [1:08:44] And everyone that goes in there, as I understand, has to put their phone in that cubby. [1:08:50] Number one, I wasn't even in the White House when it was found. [1:08:55] Number two is what possible scenario has me leaving the residence, walking down the stairs [1:09:09] through the colonnade, going down and I go back out the other way. [1:09:14] And then going down and going to the dead end of the hall to a room that I've never been [1:09:19] in or, and clearly I've never been invited into the situation room where they run wars [1:09:24] or actually they run wars. [1:09:26] And apparently under Donald Trump, they strategize about how they're going to cover up the Epstein [1:09:29] files. [1:09:30] Okay. [1:09:31] And take a bag of cocaine and put it in a cubby and walk away. [1:09:38] While, by the way, I've been seven years sober and now, and at that time was stone cold [1:09:43] sober and being drug tested on a weekly basis by the Department of Probation. [1:09:48] Why were they? [1:09:49] But they're still convinced. [1:09:51] Meanwhile, you look at pictures of Don Jr. pulling little white things out of the UFC, [1:09:58] putting something into his mouth, looking like his eyes are bugged out, everybody. [1:10:03] But meanwhile, they're convinced that it was me. [1:10:06] And by the way, I understand part of it. [1:10:09] The reason I understand part of it is because they showed pictures of me smoking crack on the [1:10:12] front page of the New York Post every single day through the, the pictures that they stole [1:10:17] from my laptop every day for four years straight. [1:10:22] How would people not think that I was? [1:10:24] They were obsessed with you. [1:10:25] I mean, they were obsessed with you. [1:10:26] They still are. [1:10:26] And oddly, oddly obsessed with your job. [1:10:28] Come on, Miranda. [1:10:29] Miranda Devine. [1:10:30] My, I'm, I'm ready. [1:10:32] I'm like, I just won one defamation lawsuit for $1.7 million against Patrick Byrne. [1:10:37] And I'm ready for you, Miranda. [1:10:38] Keep talking. [1:10:39] Keep talking, sister. [1:10:41] But they were obsessed with you and obsessed showing pictures of your junk, whatever you [1:10:45] pixelated. [1:10:46] Oh, yeah. [1:10:47] No, no, it wasn't all pixelated. [1:10:49] Yeah. [1:10:50] Is that weird to have? [1:10:52] Well, I've gotten over the weirdness of it, but yeah, it's weird. [1:10:56] It is weird, but I have gotten over the weird. [1:10:58] But look, they did me the most incredible favor, which they, and I, and I mean this sincerely, [1:11:03] is the thing that they meant to kill me is, and this is, you know, I hope doesn't come [1:11:09] off as, as cliche or trite. [1:11:11] The thing that they, it made me stronger. [1:11:14] And there was a reason why sayings like that, um, uh, are, uh, become truisms because they're [1:11:20] true. [1:11:21] Yeah. [1:11:21] And, and I had to make a decision at one point is, am I going to get out of bed and [1:11:29] live or am I going to curl up and die? [1:11:31] And so, yes, total annihilation of my private life, complete and utter humiliation in front [1:11:41] of the entire world. [1:11:43] As I said, the New York Post put me on the cover of the New York Post more times in a [1:11:47] year period of time than anyone in the history of the paper. [1:11:50] They wrote one and a half articles on average a day about me for over 18 months. [1:11:55] And that doesn't include what the Daily Mail did. [1:11:58] And that doesn't include the 14 hours of documentaries, disparate documentaries that Fox News did beyond [1:12:05] their coverage. [1:12:06] I was the third most spoken about public figure on Fox News for three years straight every [1:12:12] day. [1:12:12] The only two people that they talked about more were Donald Trump and Joe Biden. [1:12:16] They decimated me and they showed picture after picture after picture of a two year period [1:12:23] of time in my life, by the way. [1:12:25] What did the laptop prove? [1:12:27] Literally nothing other than I was a addict for a two year period of time in my life. [1:12:33] They went through every voicemail. [1:12:35] They had all my voicemails. [1:12:37] You want to know how that was a hack? [1:12:39] Deleted voicemails from my phone. [1:12:42] I mean, that's how they have that voicemail of my dad calling me in the middle of my addiction [1:12:46] saying, honey, I love you, please. [1:12:48] What can I do? [1:12:49] I don't know what to do. [1:12:50] They had every text message for 20 years, Don. [1:12:53] Every email for over 20 years. [1:12:56] Every photograph and deleted photograph for 20 years and photographs that I never took. [1:13:02] And they boxed it all together and they created this thing and they called it a laptop. [1:13:08] And you know what the laptop proved? [1:13:10] What? [1:13:10] One thing is that everything that they accused me of was not found as evidence in the laptop. [1:13:15] Not one email that I say, hey, dad, I need you to do this for me on behalf of this client [1:13:20] that I'm representing. [1:13:21] Not one. [1:13:22] Over 20 years. [1:13:23] You'd think they would have found one for all of the things they talk about the Biden [1:13:27] crime family. [1:13:27] Not one instance in which I communicated to anyone in my dad's administration that you [1:13:34] needed to do something for me because I'm getting paid for it. [1:13:37] Not once. [1:13:39] Is that why you're doing this? [1:13:41] Oh, one of the reasons I'm doing that. [1:13:44] Another reason I'm doing that is because I want to talk about recovery and take away the [1:13:48] stigma because 50 million Americans actually are addicted to something right now. [1:13:53] And one of the reasons is because of my family. [1:13:56] One of the reasons is because I want to stand up for my dad. [1:13:58] And the other reason is this. [1:14:00] Is because I can. [1:14:02] Because I can. [1:14:04] They built this platform for me, Don. [1:14:06] And they put me up on it and they tied me to a stake and they set me on fire and they [1:14:13] threw tomatoes at me. [1:14:14] And when the crowd died down and finally kind of slunk away, there I was still standing. [1:14:23] And what am I going to do? [1:14:24] I got a platform and you're handing me a bullhorn. [1:14:28] I got a lot to say. [1:14:31] You know what they say? [1:14:33] You never mess with someone who has nothing to lose. [1:14:36] Yeah. [1:14:37] What do you have to lose? [1:14:37] Here's what I have to lose. [1:14:40] I don't. [1:14:41] And I agree with exactly what you're saying. [1:14:45] I have. [1:14:46] You've been through everything. [1:14:47] No, I know. [1:14:47] What else? [1:14:48] You know what I'm saying? [1:14:48] No, I know exactly what you're saying. [1:14:50] It's exactly what you're saying. [1:14:52] Is that in what people think that, uh, uh, that I lost my, um, uh, the humiliation that [1:15:04] I, that, that anyone would consider humiliating to have to, uh, uh, uh, pictures. [1:15:12] Of them in, you know, engaged in things in motel rooms with, um, uh, with people and drugs [1:15:20] and, and, you know, like they showed that picture of me without my teeth. [1:15:24] As you know, it's like when you get caps put on your teeth, that's what your teeth look [1:15:27] like. [1:15:28] But those whole things, I mean, it's, it's just, it's pervasive. [1:15:31] And what I gained in it was a, um, an enormous sense of, uh, connection with people. [1:15:41] What are they going to say about me that they haven't already said? [1:15:44] And the realization that, that, you know what, the gift that I've been given of what my dad [1:15:50] had because of his, his experience with grief. [1:15:54] So many people have been shamed. [1:15:57] So many people have been humiliated and whether it's on their own little corner of life, it [1:16:02] is, it is, it's almost a universal thing. [1:16:05] And they feel like they can come up to me and share with me like, Hey man, like keep [1:16:10] on keeping on. [1:16:11] Yeah. [1:16:11] It's a really cool thing. [1:16:12] I thought what they did to you was very unfair. [1:16:15] I have one more question for you. [1:16:17] Um, people ask me all the time, but I don't know if you've seen the latest headline. [1:16:21] Would I run for president? [1:16:23] Yeah. [1:16:24] What do you think? [1:16:24] You think I should run? [1:16:25] I think absolutely you should run. [1:16:27] Are you serious? [1:16:28] Yeah. [1:16:29] A hundred percent. [1:16:30] Yeah. [1:16:30] Why do you say that? [1:16:31] Because I think you're an incredibly effective communicator. [1:16:34] You believe in a lot of the same things that I do. [1:16:36] I think that you are a, um, I think that you care about the country. [1:16:40] I think you believe in the constitution. [1:16:42] I think that you believe in our form of government. [1:16:45] I think you have a sense of, uh, that there is such a thing as the American dream, even though [1:16:51] we have fallen short for it anytime. [1:16:53] And anybody that believes in any of those things, I think should get involved in politics. [1:16:57] I have the Biden seal of approval. [1:17:00] You have the approval. [1:17:01] Yeah. [1:17:01] But, but I don't know. [1:17:02] And also I will, I will campaign for you or against you, whatever helps the most. [1:17:07] Because I said to everybody who asked this, because it could go either way. [1:17:11] Tell your dad. [1:17:12] Yeah. [1:17:12] I said, hello, I'm your mom and thank you for doing this. [1:17:14] Thank you. [1:17:15] Best of luck to you. [1:17:15] Thank you. [1:17:16] Thanks for watching everybody. [1:17:18] I appreciate you. [1:17:19] Make sure you like, subscribe and turn on notifications. [1:17:21] So you don't miss anything. [1:17:23] We're live weekdays at 10 AM and 5 PM Eastern with new content at 2 PM Eastern, sometimes [1:17:29] at 8 PM. [1:17:29] So follow the Don Lemon show, wherever you are, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch, [1:17:34] Substack, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Apple podcasts. [1:17:36] We are everywhere and we're there every day. [1:17:40] And if you want a little more, join the Lemon community, exclusive posts, behind the scenes, [1:17:46] live chats, just hit join or check the channel pages. [1:17:50] All right. [1:17:50] I'll see you next time.