How Trump 2.0 is Radicalizing Resistance Moms - with Jennifer Welch

[0:00] If you and I are standing next to each other and we're in Oklahoma, I'm kind of going to go, I think they might be more fearful of you because the white nationalism that's baked into white Christian evangelicalism. [0:13] They're still going to think I'm really bad from Satan, a harlot, all sorts of things. [0:17] Sure, sure, sure. [0:18] But the racism, I think, might trump. [0:21] But Jennifer, I am cute. [0:23] Adorable. [0:24] That's what I'm saying. [0:24] I mean, 10 out of 10. [0:25] I think I can get through. [0:27] We think of America as neatly divided into red states and blue states. [0:31] But inside of those red states are a lot of blue dots. [0:34] People living in deep MAGA country who look around and think, yo, this shit is crazy. [0:40] Now, Jennifer Welch is one of those people. [0:43] Yeah, she looks like someone who has a show on Bravo because she did. [0:47] But after the Democrats lost two elections to Donald Trump, she took the exit to Bernieville. [0:50] And now she is a real housewife in the streets and a Hassan Piker in the sheets. [0:56] The Democratic Party is completely out to lunch. [1:00] No wonder we lost in 2016. [1:02] No wonder we lost in 2024. [1:04] Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal and a liar. [1:06] Zoran has proven that the people can win in this country. [1:10] In her podcast, I've Had It, which she co-hosts with Angie Sullivan, has become a magnet for Democrats, sick of the party establishment. [1:17] So I sat down with Jennifer to talk about her viral confrontation with Cory Booker. [1:21] I'm like, bitch, please, what do you mean? [1:22] You're against PAC money, aren't you? [1:23] You're a little bitch? [1:24] No, I didn't. [1:24] I was thinking that in my head. [1:25] But that was in your mind? [1:26] Yeah. [1:26] Okay. [1:27] Her views on how to turn more Americans to the left. [1:30] There are movable, changeable, good people, really good people in this country. [1:35] And that's who the Democratic Party needs to target with a message of empathy. [1:39] And what it's like to be a progressive in the Bible Belt. [1:41] Being in Oklahoma, do you ever have this thing where you're like, wow, you love Jesus, but you hate Jesus? [1:46] How does this work? [1:47] I also learned a few new swear words from Jen. [1:50] But if all the cursing in this episode bothers you, well, stop being a little t***, you t***y-ass t***. [2:07] Conspiracy theories are flying about the shooting at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. [2:11] An overwhelming amount of Americans online believe that the shooting was staged, fabricated to increase President Trump's approval ratings. [2:18] Now, I read about this response on Ground News, which is today's sponsor. [2:21] Ground News is an independent news platform that shows a breakdown of publications reporting on a story, including which way each publisher tends to lean politically. [2:29] It's not about eliminating bias completely, but it makes you aware of the potential biases of different publications, so you can consider them as you analyze an event or an issue. [2:37] In one of the articles, Donald Trump maintained that the shooting was real and the Epstein files were, quote, a Democrat hoax and are a criminal conspiracy designed to damage him. [2:47] Right. [2:47] This is one of the first times when I did not pick up on many differences in a story that could be attributed to political leanings. [2:53] The right-leaning publications are saying the same thing as the left. [2:56] Shit is weird. [2:58] Let's cut through the noise together. [2:59] Go to groundnews.com slash huson to subscribe and get the 40% off Unlimited Access Vantage plan, which breaks down to just five bucks a month with my discount. [3:06] That's groundnews.com slash huson. [3:09] You are a progressive atheist from Oklahoma. [3:13] Did you also grow up around people that were constantly trying to convert you? [3:18] Yes, constantly. [3:20] It's just, it's the story of my entire existence in Oklahoma, the recruiting. [3:24] Wait, so how did it work for you? [3:26] Because for me, I would be like at a friend's house after a few months and then they'd give me the convo about JC. [3:34] So I remember the first time it ever happened. [3:36] I knew that they were religious and I wasn't, but I didn't think that much of it in elementary school. [3:41] Okay. [3:41] And I was a cheerleader for the Brink Bobcats, Brink Junior High, go Bobcats, and at a slumber party. [3:49] And this is when they're really getting really indoctrinated. [3:51] And they said, Jennifer, have you been saved? [3:54] And I was like, from what? [3:56] They're like, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Savior? [3:59] And I was like, no. [4:00] And they're like, you will burn in hell, like forever. [4:03] And the demons torture you and they shed your skin off and then it grows back and they remove it forever and it never ends. [4:09] Oh, wow. [4:10] They weren't full Dante's Inferno on you. [4:11] Full blown. [4:12] So I'm horrified, terrified. [4:14] So I race home to my mother, who is an unapologetic atheist. [4:18] At the time she was in the closet because you'd have to be, she's 83 years old. [4:22] I race home to my mother and I'm like, mom, we've got to go to church. [4:25] I've got to get saved. [4:26] And she's like, for God's sakes, Jennifer, that is ridiculous. [4:29] If you go to that church, I will ground you. [4:32] Whoa. [4:32] So I was like told not to go to church, but I went anyway. [4:36] Okay. [4:36] Because peer pressure, fear of eternal damnation, the aforementioned shedding of the skin. [4:43] It didn't sound very pleasant. [4:44] Right. [4:45] So I go to this church with my friend and her mom is driving us there and they were a working class family. [4:52] And her mom had this cup with all of these coins in it and then a $20 bill rolled up at the top. [4:59] And she said, girls, fill up the tank, $5 gasoline. [5:05] So I grabbed the 20. [5:06] My friend Shonda said, okay, I'll pump the gas. [5:09] And Shonda's mom said, no, Jennifer, count out the quarters. [5:12] The 20 is for the church. [5:14] So I was like, well, that's weird. [5:16] Like, why are we giving money to the church? [5:18] But whatevs. [5:18] So I counted out the quarters, went into 7-Eleven, paid it. [5:21] And we pull up to the church. [5:23] It's called Crossroads Cathedral. [5:25] It's this big, massive mega church. [5:27] The pastor rolls up in a white Rolls Royce in a white fur coat. [5:31] And his wife, full-blown Tammy Faye Baker, white fur coat, go in. [5:36] And it is Bible-thumping, tongue-talking, hellfire damnation. [5:41] It was the scariest shit I had ever seen in my entire life. [5:45] And seeing how this family had struggled so much financially, and they were giving the $20 to the people who pulled up in the rolls and the fur coats, I knew instantly. [5:55] Like, my mother's onto something. [5:58] This is a racket, total grift. [6:00] And so, I mean, from time, you know, I would kind of try to fit in with my friends, but I was never indoctrinated. [6:07] And my mother kind of viewed people who had deep religion like that as kind of an intellectual weakness. [6:13] She kind of looked down on it. [6:15] So it's hard to buy into it. [6:18] For me, it was like, you love Jesus Christ? [6:20] And I'm like, Muslims love Jesus Christ. [6:22] And they didn't like the first part of the sentence. [6:24] Oh, yeah. [6:25] Yeah, that's a big one. [6:26] But I was like, I'm down. [6:27] I downloaded all the software, I'm backwards compatible, totally down with what you're down with. [6:32] And they were like, we just don't like. [6:33] But I was like, look, if you circle back and you think you're cool with me, that's great. [6:41] But I just want to let you know I love JC. [6:43] I really love JC. [6:44] What do we think that a white, evangelical, suburban American would be scared of most? [6:52] A Muslim or an atheist? [6:54] That's a good question. [6:55] I could go either way. [6:56] What do you think? [6:57] I'm kind of going to go, if you and I are standing next to each other and we're in Oklahoma, [7:03] I'm kind of going to go, I think they might be more fearful of you because the white nationalism [7:09] that's baked into white Christian evangelicalism. [7:12] They're still going to think I'm really bad from Satan, a harlot, all sorts of things. [7:16] Sure, sure, sure. [7:17] But the racism, I think, might trump. [7:20] But Jennifer, I am cute. [7:22] Adorable. [7:23] That's what I'm saying. [7:24] I mean, 10 out of 10. [7:25] I think I can get through. [7:27] That's all I'm saying. [7:28] I'm just like, look, I know you're telling me I'm going to go to hell. [7:31] I'm telling you I love Jesus. [7:32] I think he's going to return. [7:33] We love him. [7:34] We love prophet Issa. [7:35] We think he's so amazing. [7:36] Issa? [7:37] Issa. [7:37] Issa's Arabic for Jesus. [7:39] Okay. [7:39] But so these people that are evangelicals, how do they connect being an evangelical Christian [7:43] to this idea of Christian nationalism? [7:45] So you grew up in Oklahoma. [7:47] Please tell us, what is Christian nationalism? [7:48] So I think Christian nationalism is this idea that Christians have, that the United States [7:55] is for God. [7:56] And it's a Christian nation for these good white folk that are delivering Christianity to [8:02] the United States of America. [8:03] I think this group of people really don't understand that Jesus, if he did exist, and I don't know [8:11] that he did or not, was a brown-skinned person in the Middle East. [8:15] I don't think they quite really understand that. [8:18] And I liken it to this. [8:22] So I grew up in suburban Oklahoma City. [8:24] Okay. [8:25] Cookie cutter neighborhoods, very, very white. [8:28] There was not a lot of culture. [8:30] So people got their culture from their church, and then it just feels fucking great to be an [8:36] American. [8:37] We have this badass military. [8:39] We got big flags at car dealerships. [8:41] And so those are the two identifiers that they have as their culture. [8:45] And so they meld these two together, and Jesus has become like this supply-side, capitalist, [8:52] mega-church, prosperity gospel, and he loves America. [8:55] And you see all that imagery in MAGA. [8:57] Sure. [8:57] You know? [8:58] So to me, a lot of people always ask me, how can... [9:01] So Jesus is Toyota-thon? [9:05] I think in their minds, yeah. [9:08] I do. [9:08] Okay. [9:09] I do. [9:09] You mentioned the prosperity gospel. [9:11] What is prosperity gospel? [9:12] Okay. [9:13] So the prosperity gospel, as I understand it, is some of my friend who gave the money [9:18] to the pastor who had the roles. [9:20] The fur coat. [9:21] The white fur coats, the whole nine. [9:23] That if you are good and you give your money to God, then God's going to favor you, and [9:30] then you will also have money. [9:32] So it's like investing into... [9:34] It's like a pyramid scheme, almost. [9:36] I mean, it's a complete grift, kind of like what Trump does with the Trump store. [9:40] So the idea is almost like trickle-down economics through the church. [9:44] Exactly. [9:44] Got it. [9:45] Understood. [9:46] You are part of a larger shift of many people in America that started out classic MSNBC, [9:53] still with her, vote blue no matter who's in office, liberal. [9:57] But then you took the exit to Bernieville. [9:59] What made you take that exit? [10:01] Defeat. [10:02] When we lost in 2024, I mean, I was all in on Kamala. [10:07] I was, you know, let's go, I'm brat, all of it. [10:10] Okay. [10:10] And then at the DNC, lived out, had a blast living out, right? [10:17] Uh-huh. [10:17] What does that mean? [10:18] What does that mean, I lived out at the DNC? [10:20] So I think... [10:21] Wait, what does that mean? [10:22] So I think that progressives call basic liberals, garden variety, you know, wine moms like me [10:28] that watch MSNBC, that we like to live out. [10:32] And so I think it's kind of, they're kind of making fun. [10:35] But I liked it. [10:36] It was fun to live out. [10:37] Got it. [10:38] So we lose. [10:38] Yeah. [10:39] I'm like, how did we lose to this guy again? [10:43] So I'm ready for the resistance. [10:45] I'm like, you know, I need to get one of those pink hats. [10:47] We're going to have to march. [10:48] Let's go. [10:49] I mean, let's go. [10:51] And it just never came. [10:53] And then I'm like, what the fuck is going on? [10:55] They're voting for these imbeciles that Trump is nominating for his cabinet. [11:00] Marco Rubio gets 99 and 0. [11:04] Alyssa Slotkin from Michigan votes for Kristi Noem, the wife of Big Titty Brian. [11:09] I mean, that's who she votes for. [11:11] Okay. [11:11] So I'm just like, what is going on? [11:13] Why are they collaborating with these people? [11:15] Right. [11:16] So I was so mad that there wasn't a defined opposition. [11:20] So then I'm just like, you know, what the fuck is going on? [11:24] So you start getting outside of your media bubble. [11:27] I was the podcast had my podcast had already. [11:30] We'd already taken like a political lean because I've always been super political. [11:34] And then when you start opening up your eyes to it, you know, then you're just like, God [11:39] damn it. [11:40] Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries are in on it. [11:42] It's like full-blown fascist collaboration. [11:45] And once you see it, you can't unsee it. [11:47] Jennifer, this is wild. [11:48] I'm talking to you, but it feels like I'm talking to Mehdi Hassan right now. [11:52] Oh, thank you. [11:52] I love Mehdi. [11:53] So, I mean, obviously this moment happened at the DNC, but this is a relatively new phenomenon. [11:57] So is it the rise of your podcast? [12:00] Is it you being exposed to other viewpoints in the media landscape? [12:06] This is a big shift, Jennifer, that I did not anticipate happening. [12:09] I think it's, I really believe nobody likes to lose. [12:12] And then you see the damage that this man is doing. [12:15] And it takes me back to, it made me really mad at the Democratic Party that we lost because [12:22] Joe Biden had really one big, important job when he got elected. [12:26] And that was who was going to be your attorney general, who is going to prosecute the funders [12:31] and the organizers of January 6th. [12:33] They only got the low-level, you know, rubes that went in there. [12:37] Somebody paid for that. [12:39] Somebody organized this. [12:40] We are now reporting that Trump spent $3 million of his own money to organize this and the fact [12:47] that we didn't handle that. [12:49] And then this guy is president again and citizens are getting shot and the genocide has continued [12:54] to be funded and Netanyahu's going bananas. [12:58] And then we, it's just, it's such an indictment on the Democratic Party because I expect Republicans [13:02] to do this. [13:03] I lived in a red state with a Republican supermajority. [13:07] I know how diabolical these people are. [13:09] I know they're pathological liars. [13:11] I lived around it. [13:13] But to see the Democrats play patty cake with these fascists. [13:17] And then again, once you open up your eyes to it, it just starts, you know, really rapidly. [13:22] The disgust gets really rapid. [13:24] And then I had some people on the podcast like Cory Booker and I got in a fight with him. [13:27] Right. [13:28] Rahm Emanuel and I got in a fight with him. [13:30] And it's just like, do you guys believe in anything or are you just a little bit better [13:35] version than the Republicans? [13:39] And I do think there is a harm reduction component for sure. [13:42] There's no question. [13:43] Right. [13:44] Would Kamala be better than Trump? [13:46] No question about it. [13:47] Yeah. [13:47] None whatsoever. [13:48] It would be a completely different country right now. [13:51] But the fundamentals that primed the soil to fall prey to fascism, that's a bipartisan effort. [13:58] So it feels like you've almost woken up to a new reality of what the traditional Democratic [14:03] Party establishment is. [14:04] I mean, you kind of see the machinations of it with a lot of the guests that you had on [14:08] the pod. [14:08] They thought they were going to get a fastball interview. [14:10] You clearly didn't. [14:11] You chopped them up. [14:12] You went to Benihana. [14:13] Yeah. [14:13] You did what you did. [14:15] Yeah. [14:15] Where do we go from here, Jennifer? [14:17] Much to my surprise, a lot of my friends, my longtime girlfriends in Oklahoma that I would [14:23] say are moderates, they are like full-blown going left now. [14:29] Are you serious? [14:31] Nobody knew what AIPAC was a year ago. [14:33] Nobody gave a fuck. [14:34] And now these women that I know are like, I will not vote for a candidate that takes AIPAC [14:38] money. [14:39] And the base has moved in such a way. [14:42] And of course, this is anecdotal, what I'm telling you right now. [14:45] Right. [14:45] But I believe the base has moved in such a way that the Democratic establishment is still [14:50] in denial. [14:51] They are in denial, bargaining. [14:53] They're in the five stages of grief of this party right now. [14:56] Yeah. [14:56] And so I think that also the fact that Democrats are not fighting as hard as we all want them [15:04] to is exacerbating this leftward move of the electorate. [15:09] What do you think will break this POV? [15:11] Because I hear it a lot from Democratic Party establishment, which is enough with the fringe [15:16] issues, enough with what my son and daughter are protesting on college campuses, enough [15:21] of the bathroom stuff. [15:23] Let's get the blues in power and make it like the good old days when Barack Obama was president [15:28] and Guantanamo Bay was open. [15:31] So I think that the problem with a lot of this statement is it seems pretty disingenuous. [15:39] First of all, nobody really believes that somebody who identifies as liberal. [15:44] And let me just say this. [15:45] Yeah. [15:45] We all know the difference between a liberal and a progressive and a leftist. [15:49] The majority of Americans don't. [15:51] The majority of Americans think that I grew up around think Obama was a leftist communist. [15:56] Right. [15:57] Okay. [15:57] Okay. [15:58] I mean, that's just the reality. [15:59] We all fight online about who's the majority of Americans don't know, don't care. [16:05] So the voters that the Democratic Party try to go after are the people that are never going [16:10] to vote for them, ever. [16:12] So they don't believe for a second. [16:14] If a Democrat stands up and says, I'm tired of this bathroom stuff and I'm not going to [16:20] tolerate it and this trans ideology, they're going to go, bullshit, they're lying. [16:24] And people don't like that. [16:26] They can sniff out the condescension and the opportunistic lying to get elected. [16:31] Just be who you are. [16:33] And I think we need to flip the narrative and the science backs up what I'm about to [16:39] say. [16:39] We need to ask MAGA people, why are you so obsessed with trans people? [16:45] A new study came out that shows all of these hotspots where people consume trans porn and [16:50] they're all red counties. [16:51] So what's going on with that? [16:53] We need to start playing offense with these people. [16:55] So what's your theory here? [16:57] Why did this become such a polarizing, divisive issue? [17:00] Well, you know, interestingly, Victor Orban started all of this 16 years ago when he was [17:06] elected in Hungary, all of this trans stuff. [17:09] And, you know, we didn't, we've always had trans people in America, but it wasn't this [17:15] big of a culture war issue. [17:18] This is another messaging moment for the Democrats, in my opinion. [17:21] You have the MAGA Republicans, the Republican Party that are like, we're for the founders, [17:27] we're for the founding documents. [17:29] You know, we are real Americans, we're heritage Americans. [17:33] They fucking get all their inspiration from a very small country in Eastern Europe that [17:40] elected a two-bit dictator. [17:42] That's where they have their conventions and that's the model they go to. [17:46] So if I was a Democratic strategist, I would be messaging the shit out of that, saying these [17:52] guys don't look to the founders. [17:53] They don't look to, because that's a big thing in red state America. [17:57] You would message more of this kind of foreign fascist. [18:01] Yes. [18:02] I don't even want to call it interference, but almost influence. [18:05] Is that what you're saying? [18:06] Why are they looking to Hungary for inspiration when we have a much longer democracy? [18:11] And furthermore, why is Ron DeSantis constantly telling people not to say gay? [18:18] What's all that? [18:18] But that's weird. [18:19] Do straight men, I know a lot of straight men, I don't hear them talking about gay shit [18:23] that much. [18:24] The people I hear talking about trans and gay shit the most are MAGA Republicans. [18:29] It's just a really interesting phenomenon. [18:32] And instead of being defensive, like, oh, we're not going to talk about the bathroom stuff [18:37] anymore, be offensive. [18:38] Put them on the defense. [18:39] But the Democratic Party is always playing, well, the thing with the trans is blah, blah, [18:46] blah. [18:46] And like trans athletes, how many are we talking about here? [18:49] Four people? [18:50] Right, right, right. [18:50] Four people. [18:51] We're talking about four people. [18:52] That's what you want to have a debate about? [18:53] Yeah. [18:53] You know, I want to talk about this moment that you had. [18:55] I mean, it was an iconic moment where you unloaded the clip on Senator Cory Booker. [18:59] Look, I'm one of a handful of people that don't take corporate PAC money. [19:02] I don't understand my Democratic Party. [19:03] What about APAC money? [19:05] You take APAC money, don't you? [19:06] A minuscule percentage of my resources come from me. [19:09] I read it's like 800,000. [19:11] Yeah, but that's a lifetime number. [19:13] Do you think he's a war criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu? [19:16] Do you think he's a war criminal? [19:18] Again, these are questions that a lot of people think are the important litmus tests that are loaded and hot. [19:24] I think the thing that Democrats get so frustrated with, where we are right now, where you see like the Zoran Mamdani's and the Graham Platner's rise up, because they can go on podcasts and you can say, do you think Benjamin Netanyahu's a war criminal? [19:38] And they just say, yes. [19:39] What was the goal there? [19:42] Okay, so we had him on I've Had It, which I have two podcasts. [19:45] I've Had It, which is more like, what have you had it with? [19:49] And that's a lot of fun. [19:50] Yeah. [19:51] And so I asked him what he'd had it with. [19:53] And he said, corporate PAC donations. [19:56] And it wasn't planned at all for me to then ask him about APAC. [20:02] But the minute he said that, because I'm not a part of the corporate media ecosystem, I'm just a normal person that accidentally has a podcast. [20:12] I'm like, bitch, please, what do you mean? [20:15] You're against PAC money, aren't you? [20:17] You called him a bitch? [20:17] No, I didn't. [20:18] I was thinking that in my head. [20:18] But that was in your mind? [20:19] Yeah. [20:20] Okay. [20:20] Like, don't you take a lot of APAC money? [20:22] And he's like, well, it's just not very much. [20:24] And then I'm like, because from my vantage point in Oklahoma, when you have all these horrible MAGA politicians, Cory Booker is like a dream, right? [20:35] He doesn't, you think he's like this great liberal Democrat. [20:39] But then all of this stuff with the genocide, I really started laser focusing on. [20:44] And once again, once you see it, you cannot unsee it. [20:47] There's a lot of people that have critiqued this, though, in the Democratic Party establishment. [20:51] Jennifer, why are you doing this? [20:52] Why are you sniping out your own? [20:57] Shouldn't you circle up and protect them? [20:59] What do you say to that critique? [21:01] I'm not in a cult. [21:03] I'm simply not in a cult. [21:05] Anytime you have a group of people where you say we cannot criticize, that is not a healthy environment. [21:13] Those are the symptoms of a cult. [21:15] That's what we criticize MAGA for. [21:17] So we can't have it both ways. [21:18] We can't say, look at MAGA. [21:20] They never stand up to Donald Trump. [21:21] They never criticize him. [21:23] Little Moses Mike always falls in line. [21:25] Lindsey Graham always falls in line. [21:28] And then we can't criticize Cory Booker for saying, hey, I cannot stand PAC money. [21:33] Also, APAC. [21:34] Come on. [21:34] Right. [21:35] Benjamin. [21:35] We have to be able to call it out. [21:37] So you're basically saying, look, Jennifer Welch is here to humiliate you so that you improve. [21:42] Which kind of reminds me of my dad when it comes to me and math homework. [21:48] He's like, I will ridicule you in this public library until you get better at long division. [21:54] Yeah. [21:54] And in a weird way, I did rise to the occasion. [21:56] Yeah. [21:57] Yeah. [21:57] I think shame and humiliation can be a very motivating factor. [22:01] I want you to help me process this. [22:02] Okay. [22:03] Be my liver that is processing this new information that's going into my body. [22:07] I've seen the big splashy pieces about you, Jennifer, and they position you as perhaps part of a larger shift to the left. [22:16] And you're telling me this anecdotal evidence of many of your friends that deeply care and now have shifted further to the left. [22:23] One of the things I've struggled with is I don't know in the future if empathy can be scaled within the Democratic Party. [22:33] The things that you're talking about, caring about the rights of the Palestinians, caring about LGBTQ issues, all of these things require ICE, require a deep sense of empathy. [22:45] And when I drive past the country club or the tennis club, and I know you're an avid tennis player, can empathy infiltrate the tennis club? [22:55] Okay. [22:55] So I think there are a group of people that are country club Republicans, and these people travel around. [23:04] They could come to dinners in New York, and they're sophisticated enough to not say off-color remarks. [23:12] But privately, they always go and triple Trump. [23:15] They're always going to go and vote Republican. [23:18] These, to me, are far more offensive people than the rural Americans who have just been left out, abandoned by the Democratic Party. [23:28] And so there is a group of people that I grew up around where, no, you're correct. [23:34] Empathy is not going to hit them. [23:38] It's gone. [23:39] And those people are a lost cause. [23:41] The Democratic Party does not need to trot around with Liz Cheney, does not need to throw minorities under the bus because they're never going to vote for Democrats ever, period. [23:51] However, I do think there are a group of people that are moderate-minded that maybe have not been that political because they haven't had to be political. [24:00] Because politics didn't really affect them. [24:04] Their daughter's rights weren't threatened. [24:07] Maybe they recently had a gay grandchild or their son or daughter now is in a mixed-race relationship. [24:14] And then they're like, oh, wait, hold up. [24:16] Do you remember Mitt Romney at the Black Lives Matter march? [24:19] I remember I saw that on my TikTok. [24:20] I was like, what? [24:22] Yeah. [24:22] He has a black grandson. [24:23] Right. [24:23] So it changed him. [24:26] And Mitt Romney was moderate. [24:27] I disagree with him almost in everything politically, but he wasn't a diehard Christian nationalist. [24:33] The people who, once they get ignited, that have empathy as a default setting but have never had to be political because their privilege has prevented them from, as a luxury, that they don't have to be political. [24:44] Those are the people that you can change, the apolitical, who are inherently pretty good people. [24:52] And these are the people that are my rich lady white friends that have always voted probably down the middle who now they're seeing the images of a genocide. [25:04] They're hearing about what's happening in Lebanon. [25:07] And they're seeing the regime, the Trump regime, shoot protesters. [25:15] And these people, it's very easy for me to have a conversation with them where I say, you know, they're like, can you believe Renee Goode got shot? [25:21] And I can say, think about all of the black people in America who have been screaming, this is happening to us. [25:28] This is happening in our communities. [25:30] Right. [25:30] And these friends of mine go, oh, my God, you're right. [25:32] I can't believe I didn't think that. [25:34] There are movable, changeable, good people, really good people in this country. [25:40] And that's who the Democratic Party needs to target with a message of empathy. [25:44] But there are some, you're right, that are just fucked, that are just spiteful for spite's sake. [25:51] You know, one of the things that happens a lot in regards to that is this idea of just, you know, those people leave them behind. [25:57] And this was the messaging in 2016 and 2020 and 2024. [26:01] As you say, Trump's core base is a cult. [26:03] They go, look, we're never going to convince those 63 million Trump voters to change ever. [26:08] Then in 2020, they were like, hey, we're never going to convince those 74 million Trump voters to change. [26:12] And then in 2024, they're like, hey, we're never going to convince those 77 million Trump voters to change. [26:18] I'm noticing a pattern here. [26:21] But do you think there's a tipping point that's going to happen now? [26:25] I do not have faith in people that triple Trump. [26:29] I don't wish to offer these people an off-ramp either. [26:35] I think our message should be, look, we don't understand it. [26:39] We have a lot more empathy than you do. [26:41] We don't particularly want to hang out with you, but we're going to fight for you to have health care. [26:45] We're going to make sure you don't file for bankruptcy because you have stage four cancer. [26:50] We're going to make sure if you have a gay grandbaby that that baby has the same rights as everybody else. [26:57] And so, fuck you. [26:58] But we're not going to fight for you. [27:03] It's such a narcissistic political thing that we have to court these people. [27:10] And it's all about their feelings. [27:12] Make it about universal human rights. [27:14] Make it about a message of universal opportunity in the economy. [27:18] But don't court... [27:20] I mean, Jennifer, I've got to cut you off there. [27:22] What you're describing sounds like something Jesus would do. [27:25] So, I don't know. [27:25] I know. [27:27] I know. [27:27] It's really problematic with the atheist thing, isn't it? [27:29] Well, I mean, how do you reconcile that? [27:32] Which, being in Oklahoma, do you ever have this thing where you're like, [27:34] wow, you love Jesus, but you hate Jesus? [27:36] How does this work? [27:42] Hold still. [27:42] I promise this won't hurt. [27:46] Oh, hey there. [27:47] I was just making some delightful small talk with my employee, Austin. 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[31:03] Visit att.com slash iPhone or visit AT&T's store for details. [31:08] Right now we're seeing the MAGA Christians are having a huge Jesus problem. [31:15] And they're fighting with the Pope right now, right? [31:18] Because they have invented this white, hapless asshole, and that's who they worship. [31:25] And then anytime you talk about Jesus Christ, the actual central character of the Bible, he's this radical empath. [31:34] I'm interested to see if like a James Tallarico that messages his faith, what that does to the Texas electorate. [31:43] I'm curious about that. [31:45] I don't particularly like the commingling of religion and politics at all. [31:50] Even if he's on my team and he's progressive and all of that, just it's nauseating for me that we always have to bring up religion when it comes to politics. [31:59] That's just me personally. [32:00] Have you seen what Trump's been doing? [32:02] I mean, the AI Jesus photos have been wild. [32:05] Okay. [32:05] I want to show you the first one. [32:07] This is what Trump put up. [32:08] So Donald Trump put this up and then deleted it. [32:11] Yeah. [32:11] Now he then said, because a lot of evangelicals got mad at this and he was like, I'm not trying to be Jesus. [32:19] I was trying to be a doctor. [32:20] Right. [32:22] Then he put this up today. [32:24] He actually put this up a few hours ago. [32:25] What's going on here? [32:27] So what I like about this is he goes from I'm the Messiah to now I'm the chosen one. [32:32] That God might be playing his trump card. [32:34] But this is hilarious to me. [32:36] I read this earlier. [32:37] Irish for Trump says, I was never a very religious man, but it doesn't seem with all these satanic, demonic child sacrifices. [32:44] Sacrificing monsters. [32:47] Yeah. [32:47] I'm trying to do the math here because that's Epstein Island, which he's in the Epstein files. [32:51] And to say you're not religious, but you're acknowledging satanic, demonic monsters is hilarious. [32:59] This is what I call Christian signaling. [33:01] And this has been a huge component of MAGA success. [33:05] Right. [33:06] So they accuse us of virtue signaling. [33:08] And I accuse them of Christian signaling. [33:11] All of the women that carry the water for the patriarchy, [33:14] Christy Noem and Pam Bondy, all just the nauseating they come out with these crosses on. [33:19] And then you have Moses Mike Johnson, who's always talking about the Lord this, God that. [33:24] So he props this stuff out, Trump, to Christian signal to his base, [33:29] to where they go, oh, oh, okay, this is all in our wheelhouse. [33:34] This is all approved by God. [33:35] You've said Donald Trump is like an evangelical preacher. [33:39] Yeah. [33:39] In what way? [33:41] It's exactly like him. [33:43] Flashy, lying, all of the womanizing. [33:50] Think about just the interior decoration of the Oval Office, of his plane. [33:55] All the gold, the over-wealth advertised, over-promising, under-delivering delusions of grandeur. [34:04] He reminds me exactly of an evangelical preacher, ripping off his base, [34:10] which is exactly what that megachurch pastor did when I tried to go get saved, [34:14] and they started talking in tongues. [34:16] When Trump came, I was like, no wonder they like him. [34:19] He's just like all of these evangelical preachers around here, full of shit, artificial, the swoopy hair. [34:27] Think about the righteous gemstones. [34:28] I mean, he's like a character right out of that. [34:30] Jennifer, do you get blowback in the comments from this? [34:32] I mean, I'm scared for you. [34:33] I don't read the comments. [34:34] You don't read the comments. [34:35] No. [34:35] From all your friends that you went to high school and college with and that you grew up with that are like, [34:38] hey, why are you going at the church like this? [34:40] Oh, oh, oh, oh, those comments. [34:42] Yeah. [34:42] So my friends in Oklahoma, I don't have any like evangelical friends. [34:48] Okay. [34:48] They're either Christian light or maybe agnostic because it wasn't tenable for me to be an atheist [34:56] and for them to be really concerned about, you know, recruiting people. [35:01] It wasn't a tenable relationship. [35:03] So those people shut up. [35:04] But I'm wonderful. [35:05] In a lot of purple cities like Oklahoma City, you have the best progressive liberals on the planet. [35:12] These people fight hard. [35:13] They're locked in because they live around the core of what MAGA supermajorities do. [35:19] So I have some of the coolest friends in Oklahoma. [35:22] So they're cheerleading me on about all of this. [35:24] That's awesome. [35:25] But also because they are acutely aware of how damaging megachurches are and indoctrinating people [35:32] and leading them to this MAGA movement. [35:35] And so there is this thing in Christianity in the Bible Belt where my friends that are Christian light [35:41] look down upon megachurches. [35:45] Oh, interesting. [35:45] Yeah. [35:46] So what's their reasoning? [35:47] So like around Easter, all the megachurches do these videos where they're baptizing people [35:53] in the dunk tank and then they have the rock bands and then like people like floating over the stage. [35:58] And so if somebody is like an Episcopalian, which is a little classier Christian, right? [36:02] They're kind of like, God, that's so trashy. [36:05] Really? [36:05] Yeah, there's this Christian. [36:07] They're throwing shade. [36:07] It's a Christian on Christian crime. [36:09] Totally. [36:10] Yeah, it's great. [36:11] No way. [36:12] Yeah. [36:13] Yeah. [36:13] I didn't know that. [36:14] They look down on the megachurchers. [36:16] So there is a distinct, and these are the people that I'm talking about that maybe they've always voted Republican because these Christian light people, because they got a tax break, but they're not in that cult, that megachurch, megacult, which to me is all the same psychological soil that walks you down this path where it's very easy to dehumanize people. [36:36] Tell me about the turning point crowd. [36:39] What do, what does, you know, that's going to emerge in 2028 and beyond. [36:43] There is a group of turning point USA kids that are turned up. [36:47] Now I was going to pull up to one of their events, but I saw what they did to Ramaswamy and I knew I probably don't belong. [36:51] Christianity is the one truth. [36:54] Jesus Christ is God and there is no other God. [36:57] He is part of the Holy Trinity and any other God is a demon and it's false. [37:00] Turning point, I mean, I think that, did you see last night that, or a couple of nights ago where J.D. Vance was supposed to pull up at University of Georgia with Erica Kirk and he showed up to tens of people. [37:14] There were, I mean, I think 90% of the stadium was completely empty. [37:18] Really? This is a turning point event? [37:21] Yeah. And Erica Kirk no showed because she said there was a security issue, which is interesting that they would allow the sitting vice president of the United States to show up if there was a security issue. [37:30] I think she found out that nobody was going to be there or maybe she and J.D. are having problems. [37:35] I don't know. I'm just, you know, guessing there. [37:38] But I think that this, the way they have treated the horrible, unnecessary murder due to access to guns in the United States of Charlie Kirk and they rolled out this funeral that looked like a WWE wrestling match. [37:55] This backfired. Remember I told you about the Christian on Christian crime? [37:58] Right. [37:59] So these mega church people and turning point people, they live in bubble wrap with each other. [38:04] Okay. [38:04] In MAGA world and that sort of prosperity gospel world. [38:08] Then you have a bunch of other Christians that think that form of Christianity is bullshit and trash. [38:14] And so when they put Charlie Kirk's funeral on the national stage like that, you have people of all different faiths. [38:21] And then you have the Christian light people, as I call them, going, that's in poor taste. [38:25] God, that's some freaky shit or God, that's some weird shit. [38:28] Right, right. [38:29] And I think it backfired. [38:30] I think turning point is going to be on its last leg. [38:33] I think where we need to focus our attention is more to, as far as the youth goes, to like Nick Fuentes and the Groypers. [38:41] Like I think turning point is, I think that, put a fork in it, I think that thing is cooked. [38:45] Okay. [38:45] I think turning point is dead. [38:47] So I got my holy trinity of Al's that I love. [38:49] I love Al Sharpton. [38:50] Okay. [38:51] I love Al Roker and I love Al Gore. [38:53] That's my trinity. [38:56] They're just great characters. [38:57] Yeah. [38:57] They're just great characters. [38:58] Yeah. [38:58] So I wanted to show you an Al Sharpton clip real quick and I want to know your thoughts. [39:01] Okay. [39:02] So are you going to run again in 28? [39:04] Listen, I might. [39:10] I might. [39:11] Thinking about it. [39:13] I'm thinking about it. [39:16] If she comes back and there's a primary, let's do it. [39:19] Let's have that conversation. [39:21] I think I'm not one of these Democrats like, oh, don't run. [39:26] I'm not going to wet the bed over that. [39:27] If she wants to run, let her run. [39:29] Let her talk about what she and Joe Biden did. [39:34] Let her answer for specific policy positions that she has. [39:39] So you're like, air it out. [39:40] Step on the stage. [39:41] Step on the primary stage and air it out. [39:42] Yeah. [39:43] I mean, if she wants to run again and she wants to earn voters, let's hear what she has to say. [39:48] I think all of the progressive bedwetting about she's over, blah, blah, blah, just let's have a primary. [39:55] We didn't get to have one last time. [39:56] Let's have a primary. [39:58] And if Kamala wants to run, then let her run. [40:01] Let's hear what she has to say. [40:02] How did you feel about the uncommitted movement at the last DNC? [40:06] I was so mad about it at the time. [40:08] I was so mad about it. [40:09] Really? [40:10] Yeah. [40:10] So remember, I was an MSNBC lib. [40:13] Okay. [40:13] So we got invited to the DNC and I was so excited. [40:16] I mean, it's like really surreal because I'd always watch the DNC. [40:19] Sure. [40:19] And I'm from Oklahoma City, this interior designer, and I'm like at the DNC. [40:22] Yeah, yeah. [40:23] You're a mad out head. [40:24] We're doing, it was just, we're meeting all of these politicians. [40:27] I interviewed Barack Obama. [40:29] It was just still, I think back and I'm just like, oh my God, that was so much fun. [40:34] And every day when I got out of the Uber and I walked into the United Center, there were [40:40] Palestinian protesters. [40:42] And when we left, there were Palestinian protesters. [40:44] And they were peaceful. [40:45] They were nice. [40:46] I always said hi and blah, blah. [40:47] And some screamed at me, whatever. [40:49] But it's, I didn't think, it's, it's America. [40:52] Right. [40:52] You get to protest. [40:52] Sure. [40:53] Yeah. [40:53] But deep down, I thought to myself, they are going to fuck us. [40:56] They are going to fuck us. [40:58] They are going to fuck us. [40:59] That's what I thought at the time. [41:01] So I was kind of pissed off about it. [41:03] And then, you know, we have the election and she loses. [41:10] He wins. [41:11] It's just brutal. [41:12] I mean, it's just, it was so brutal. [41:13] It was so brutal waking up thinking this many fucking people voted for them. [41:17] But I wasn't mad at those protesters. [41:20] I thought they were, before, I thought they were going to fuck us. [41:22] Afterwards, I wasn't. [41:23] I realized like there's a real problem in the country that 77 million people voted for this [41:29] guy. [41:30] Right. [41:30] Like a dirty cop. [41:31] Trump's like a dirty cop. [41:33] They voted for a dirty cop. [41:34] And so then I really, and I knew some stuff about Israel and Palestine, but I always bought [41:41] into this narrative that like Israel is a democracy and they are our best friend and they're surrounded [41:48] by all these terrorist groups. [41:49] And I'm an atheist. [41:50] And so easy for me to hate on a religion. [41:52] Like these are these radical Muslims. [41:53] So I was like, oh yeah, that sounds crazy. [41:55] So I was, I bought into that and I lived in the middle of the country and I didn't really [42:01] expand my thinking much beyond that narrative. [42:06] But my husband would always say, he's a criminal defense attorney. [42:09] You'd really like him. [42:10] And he's from this small town in Oklahoma called Hugo, Oklahoma. [42:13] Okay. [42:13] And he would always go, and he's probably more progressive than I am. [42:17] He'd always go, I don't know what the fuck is going on with Israel, but everybody that [42:21] I hate likes them. [42:24] Like Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham, that was his litmus test for it. [42:27] Okay. [42:27] And so after the, the election, you know, I really started, I thought I need to read more [42:34] into all of these things. [42:36] And so I read and a lot more as to what was happening with Israel and Gaza. [42:41] And then once you start liking certain things in your algorithm, you get more and more. [42:46] And then that's where you get where I just felt like, oh my, this is, of course, of course [42:55] the democratic party is compromised here because we funded this like, and I was so happy when [43:01] Joe Biden won, I was so fucking happy. [43:04] Yeah. [43:04] And generally speaking, I was pretty happy with him the first two years of his presidency. [43:08] Then it was like, is he still going to run? [43:10] He seems pretty old. [43:11] But then when you find out, you know, how much the like Cory Booker and Joe Biden, these [43:16] Democrats that I loved, really loved, really believed in living in a red state with all [43:22] these fucking Christian nationals politicians. [43:24] I really believed in these rays of hope. [43:27] You find out they voted to fund a regime that is Israelis that shoot little kids in the head [43:34] and in the heart and carpet bomb their, their apartments. [43:38] Just, and then you, it's just bad. [43:41] Now they're doing it in Lebanon. [43:43] There's a million people displaced. [43:46] It's like, I don't, I don't want to vote. [43:48] Anybody that believes that? [43:49] Why the fuck are these rural Americans that don't have healthcare, they're funding that [43:56] shit? [43:56] Right. [43:57] Really? [43:58] Like, it's just, it's so disappointing. [44:00] So in rural America where so many of their needs aren't met, how can so much of the country [44:06] then also be just pro war? [44:09] I don't understand. [44:11] I don't, I don't know. [44:12] You know, it's, if it's so much that they're pro war is, is that it's this, it's this thing. [44:18] My husband says this all the time because we go to the Oklahoma City Thunder Games. [44:21] We're huge Thunder fans. [44:22] Oh. [44:22] Right? [44:23] I mean, you guys are NBA champs. [44:24] Shout out to you. [44:24] Yeah. [44:24] I know. [44:25] SGA baby MVP. [44:26] So we go to these games and they do the national anthem. [44:31] And my husband always says, I have to go to the bathroom. [44:34] Really? [44:35] Because he can't, he can't stomach it. [44:36] It's not that he doesn't like America. [44:38] First of all, the Colin Kaepernick thing really pissed him off. [44:40] And we, he wouldn't allow anybody to watch the NFL for like two years in the house. [44:44] It's not like I was like sneaking off watching football or anything, but he just really upset [44:48] him the way Colin Kaepernick was treated. [44:49] But it really pisses him off when we're in Oklahoma City and it's like seeing for the [44:55] national anthem. [44:56] And then all of these people that he knows triple trumped act, stand up and they act like [45:00] they're so, they so support the troops. [45:03] And he goes, it just pisses me the fuck off because they go into these poor neighborhoods [45:07] and recruit these guys and send them to the front lines. [45:10] And they come back here with PTSD. [45:11] They've lost a limb, all these fucking mental problems, addiction. [45:15] Sure. [45:15] They don't ever fund the soldier. [45:17] And it's such bullshit that they act like they're patriots. [45:20] I can't even fucking stand to sit there and listen to the national anthem with them. [45:23] It's total bullshit. [45:25] So to your question, the, it's not that people in rural America are like, oh my God, I love [45:31] war. [45:32] It's supporting America is like being a Christian for them. [45:36] It's just not an option. [45:37] Okay. [45:38] They just feel like compulsively like we're at war against these Muslims. [45:43] We got to take them out. [45:44] And they, they say death to America. [45:46] Nobody has taken the time to sit down and explain to them exactly what's going on. [45:52] I think we're starting to see a big change in that. [45:55] I think that Israel, like the dam is broken on that thing. [45:59] It is broken. [46:01] And, and there is an exposure that they have that makes sense as to why, you know, they [46:09] say things like as soon as the TikTok images subside, you know, like that's their strategy [46:15] and combating this is just to suppress it. [46:17] And so. [46:18] Stop the cell phones. [46:19] Right. [46:20] You get the cell phone out of your daughter and son's hand. [46:22] They won't show up to the protest. [46:23] Yeah. [46:23] But I think what you're talking about, and you mentioned this earlier, is a part of a [46:26] larger problem. [46:27] And I think all Americans should be aware of it, which is Citizens United, but also oligarchs [46:33] spending money and buying elections. [46:36] Now you have some very choice feelings about some oligarchs. [46:39] And I want to play you this clip of Jeff Bezos that I think about three times a week. [46:42] What does money mean for you being the first person in history that has a net worth of [46:48] a three digit amount of billion? [46:50] The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my [46:59] Amazon winnings into space travel. [47:04] So that's basically, Blue Origin is expensive enough to be able to use that fortune. [47:09] So I have many thoughts, but I'd like to, and I've jotted them down in my journal, but [47:14] I'd like to know your thoughts first, Jennifer. [47:16] I just think these men and the way America at large, we attribute a lot of traits that [47:26] these men have not earned. [47:27] We're like, oh, they're geniuses or, you know, all of the, they're just these strong alpha [47:32] men. [47:33] And I think when they, when you get to become a billionaire like that, it appears as though [47:38] at least the ones that I've seen something breaks in them, exploiting people breaks you [47:44] much like taking money from these oligarchs might break a politician that once was a bright [47:49] light. [47:51] And I think it's really damning that these men have all of this wealth. [47:57] And that's what he, that's what he's working on. [47:59] I don't get it with the space thing. [48:01] And it's a penis extension. [48:02] Yeah. [48:03] I thought about it multiple times. [48:04] He also calls it his winnings. [48:06] Like he, he got a, like a, he hit a lick on a, a scratch off. [48:11] The interviewer also says you have triple digit hundreds of millions or billions. [48:17] That's also strange. [48:20] It's also like, there's a lot of things on earth you could help with education, [48:25] healthcare. [48:26] He's like, no, we gotta go there. [48:28] Think about his ex-wife. [48:29] She is spending money and over fist to help marginalized people, to enact positive change. [48:39] And then you have this prick and Larry Ellison, who's just horrible, Elon Musk, who just spends [48:47] his days. [48:48] Could you imagine having that kind of, I've got a bank account that can choke a bull. [48:52] Fuck you money. [48:53] Whoa. [48:54] And he spends his day on Twitter. [48:57] He's so oppressed and he's so aggrieved. [48:59] And he said, chronically online, retweeting Nazis and white nationalists. [49:05] It's that's so pathetic. [49:07] And it shows you that we've been, we think this age old question, if you won the lottery, [49:12] what's the first thing you're going to do? [49:14] I can tell you the last thing I'm going to do is anything that these people do, [49:17] because they all seem so miserable and so unhelpful. [49:21] You know, Jennifer, I have a huge fear. [49:22] And walk me through this just as a heterosexual man that's 40 years old. [49:25] But I am getting older. [49:26] There's something about being an older man and being on the Internet that bad things happen. [49:30] But there is something that's happening with the boomers. [49:33] I want to I want to play a clip of one of my favorite Kenyan presidents. [49:36] He had some thoughts on the boomers. [49:38] Let's take a look. [49:38] It's fair to say that 80 percent of the world's problems involve old men hanging on and who are afraid of death [49:48] and insignificance and they won't let go and they build pyramids and they put their names on everything. [50:04] And they're just they get very they're very anxious about it. [50:09] Now, is it just old men? [50:11] Because that man also tried to get Ruth Bader Ginsburg to retire as well. [50:15] So what is it? [50:16] What's going on with Americans and age? [50:19] You know, I think about this a lot because Joe Biden, I just I think he kind of fucked us. [50:27] RBG kind of fucked us. [50:29] And I just I loved both of them so much at one time. [50:33] Like they they encompassed and embodied like so much of like what my political identity was. [50:40] What I identified as like this shining ray of light in this red state of, you know, Christian nationalism that I lived in. [50:47] And then they just they don't know when to visit Kenny Rogers, know when to hold them, know when to fold them. [50:53] Yeah, no one to walk away, know when to run. [50:56] They don't they don't seem to do that. [50:58] Like, look at fucking Mitch McConnell. [51:01] I have a theory. [51:02] What's your theory? [51:02] What makes it? [51:03] What do you think is making them white knuckle power to the very end? [51:07] I honestly don't know. [51:10] I think America doesn't give dignity with old age. [51:13] Eastern cultures, as you get older, we respect our elders. [51:18] And there's a place for you that is of high status. [51:21] Yeah. [51:21] Here's my pitch. [51:22] Okay. [51:23] I think once you hit the retirement age to encourage people to retire, we should say, hey, please retire gracefully. [51:32] We will give you a guest slot on The View because that's catnip. [51:38] Yeah, that's catnip. [51:39] Yeah. [51:39] Daytime talk show. [51:40] I get hair and makeup done every day. [51:42] Yeah. [51:43] And I get to talk politics. [51:44] Yeah. [51:45] Yeah. [51:46] That is what my dad wants to do. [51:48] Think about that dream lineup on The View where it's just like Chuck Grassley, Whoopi Goldberg, [51:53] Joy Behar, Mike Birbiglia's mom. [51:56] Bam. [51:58] You know what I mean? [51:59] It's like you don't have to run healthcare anymore. [52:04] You don't have to run the government anymore. [52:05] Yeah. [52:06] You have a job. [52:06] You will be seen in every dentist's office across the United States. [52:10] I mean, you're really right about the dignity thing because you probably saw that this week [52:16] where Trump had the DoorDash grandma bring him McDonald's to advertise the no tax on tips. [52:23] So the no tax on tips is something special, right? [52:26] It's very special. [52:27] When I saw that, I thought, what an indictment on DoorDash, the president and American culture [52:32] at large that we are doing a big press conference for a grandma who's trying to raise money for her [52:40] husband's fucking cancer treatment. [52:42] Yeah, it's beyond depressing. [52:43] And you're so right about that. [52:45] I had a grandmother. [52:45] She was, God, she was meaner than a rattlesnake. [52:47] Mean people live forever. [52:48] My nice grandparents died when they were young. [52:50] Yeah. [52:50] And this woman- [52:51] The people you want to live don't stick around long. [52:53] Never. [52:54] And the people you hate will never die. [52:57] Yeah. [52:58] And this is why I worry about Trump. [52:59] I mean, it just keeps going and going and going. [53:04] His mind will go, but his body is a blue zone. [53:07] I'm telling people this. [53:08] He's going to live forever, but go ahead. [53:10] So when my grandmother, she was probably in her 90s when she died, [53:13] but she was in a nursing home. [53:14] Yeah. [53:15] And my mother and I would go see her and it's so depressing. [53:19] There's just these people that would just send off to these nursing homes in wheelchairs, [53:24] brain rot, physical rot, and there is no dignity in any of it. [53:29] None. [53:29] None. [53:30] You have been at times coined as a quote, wine mom. [53:33] And I can find that to be condescending. [53:37] I like to unload the clip on dads, you know, and there's different types of dads. [53:41] There's Patagonia puffer dad. [53:43] There's Subaru dad. [53:45] Yeah. [53:45] There's- [53:46] Is that a lesbian? [53:46] The Subaru dad? [53:47] Subaru dad is just more of like a granola dad. [53:50] He may have like an NPR tote bag. [53:51] Okay. [53:51] He may like love to take you on a camping trip to Yosemite. [53:54] Okay. [53:54] Maybe he likes going to Lake Tahoe. [53:56] You have the, hey, it's the national anthem. [54:00] Dad. [54:01] I know that dad. [54:02] There's another dad I know, which is like, Merry Christmas. [54:05] Say it back. [54:06] Yeah. [54:06] That dad. [54:07] Yeah. [54:09] You speak to a particular type of mom. [54:11] Can you give me some alts on wine mom? [54:14] Oh, okay. [54:15] So I would say, I agree with you that the wine mom thing is kind of reductive. [54:19] And I was offended by it at first, but now I'm like, don't wet the bed. [54:21] Just embrace it. [54:22] Sure. [54:22] You know, don't sweat the small stuff. [54:24] But different types of moms. [54:26] There's the PTA moms. [54:28] And this is a breed of mom that is really intense. [54:32] I mean, these are the types that. [54:33] That's authoritarianism. [54:34] It totally is authoritarianism. [54:36] I was in these group meetings that were just really alarming for my child that was a senior in high [54:42] school last year. [54:43] I mean, and it is like, the boys need to arrive for the basketball game at 8 p.m. [54:49] If they arrive late then da da da da da. [54:51] And I'm just like, they can drive. [54:53] Sure. [54:54] They can vote. [54:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [54:55] They're 18-year-olds. [54:56] Pipe down, woman. [54:57] I had this one mom. [54:58] I went to a mom meeting. [55:00] These mothers can be a lot. [55:03] My son, my oldest son was going on a trip to New York his freshman year of high school. [55:07] Yeah. [55:07] And they were going with just like the art teachers. [55:10] And this mom, right, we were in this meeting before we send our kids off to New York. [55:14] And I was just like, you know, they're going to go, have fun, [55:16] they do this trip every year. [55:17] So this is in Oklahoma City and you're about to send your kids to New York? [55:19] Yeah. [55:19] Got it. [55:20] okay and so this mom they said do you have any questions and i was like oh god here we go here [55:24] come the power moms they're coming she raises her hand and she starts and she said i'm going to ask [55:30] what everybody's been thinking probably this whole meeting do you have a plan if there is a 9 11 style [55:37] attack while while our kids are in new york whoa and i mean it was audible i went right i just [55:45] thought my god how could you parent like that i mean that's what you're thinking about well what [55:50] what did the what did the mom say what did the 9 11 mom say well then the teachers the teachers [55:54] 9 11 preppers the art the history whatever they were like if something happens we will stay together [56:02] as a group you know some standard stuff and she like doubled down she asked multiple follow-up [56:07] questions for at this point i've completely checked out because i am just like i'm intrigued everybody [56:12] is going to hate your kids so i went home and i go to my son dylan i'm like dylan the last name [56:19] because i knew the woman's last name i was like is her son a and dylan was like oh yeah he's the [56:23] biggest and i was like i knew it i knew that that woman's son had to be a if that's [56:28] the mom that's raising him you're getting spicy but it's true wouldn't you think so i mean is that [56:38] the new alt the wine mom is the al-qaeda mom because it sounds like it's uh it's quite the comparison [56:47] i thought it was nuts but i think that there's just so much hyper helicopter [56:52] mommying going on and it's just like i was a gen xer and so like we just went we were feral you know [56:59] we were just out kind of rabid totally we were like latchkey kids and and so all figure it out [57:05] dot gov sure totally so all of that just you know 95 different oh this is what she said this was her [57:11] follow-up question i can't believe i forgot this yeah yeah in case al-qaeda strikes back sure she [57:15] said what if a parent i'm not saying who okay went and stayed at the same hotel just in a different [57:24] room okay and this teacher at the high school said well that would defeat the purpose of the trip [57:30] because we're wanting to take the kids without their parents right to say hey this is an opera this [57:35] is an art museum because typically if kids are exposed to that with their parents they rebel like i hate [57:39] the opera i hate an art museum but if they do it together encourage independence and make a new [57:43] memory and it yeah and and the willingness to embrace art which i really appreciated and so she [57:49] was like well what if and she kept going on what if we stay at the hotel across the street and the [57:54] teacher's like lady maybe he finally was like maybe your child isn't a good candidate to to come on this [58:00] trip because we really like to get them away from the parents and expose them to things that we don't [58:05] really have in oklahoma and that's when i went home and asked dylan if her son was a pissy and he [58:10] confirmed that yes he was okay copy that i have no response to that i don't want to i don't want to [58:16] unload the clip on dylan's friend or anything like that jennifer walsh thank you so much for being on the [58:21] the show thank you