How Democrats Abandoned The Working Class

[0:00] Folks, it's midterm season and there is one target audience the Democrats are desperately [0:05] trying to pander to. I'm not talking about Subaru moderates, Granola NPR whites, [0:10] or Cupertino lizard people. I'm talking about the working class. [0:15] The working class. The working class. [0:17] In the working class neighborhoods, I represent regular working class folks. [0:22] What has he done for the working class? [0:23] So who are the working class? And why are Democrats so thirsty to prove that they are [0:29] the true party of working class Americans? Now, some terms show up in political discourse [0:33] gradually, like neoliberalism or polyamory. But working class had a very specific moment [0:40] it entered the mainstream. 1.35 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on November 9th, 2016. [0:47] Some big news here, Megan. Huge news, actually. Huge, huge. [0:50] The AP now projecting that Donald Trump has won the state of Pennsylvania. [0:54] That is the race, frankly. [0:56] It's been almost 10 years since Trump broke through the blue wall, winning Wisconsin, [1:01] Michigan, and Pennsylvania. And liberals suddenly remembered that everyone can vote. [1:05] And it's not just a Capital One rewards perk. [1:08] For months, the media fanned out across rural America to study working class Trump voters [1:13] like gorillas in captivity. [1:14] They're like, small business owner want banana? [1:17] Me, Soledad O'Brien. Me, friend. [1:22] Reading Hillbilly Elegy became doing the work. [1:25] That book actually shot back to number one a week after Trump's inauguration. [1:30] Liberal guilt made J.D. Vance so famous that depending on how bad Qatari engineering is, [1:35] this guy might be president soon. [1:37] The man and woman who raised me, Mamaw and Papaw said, [1:40] we're for Democrats because Democrats are for working people. [1:44] And I don't think that's true anymore, my friends. [1:45] Now, Grifter Huckleberry Finn is getting at something very real here. [1:49] Since 2016, there's been a lot of debate around what the working class even means. [1:55] But it used to be very simple. [1:56] Working class people got a paycheck. [1:58] They had a boss. [1:59] They were probably in a union. [2:01] And they almost definitely voted Democrat. [2:04] Ever since FDR and the New Deal back in the 1930s, [2:07] workers were a core part of Democrats' identity as a party. [2:10] In 1935, FDR signed the Wagner Act, which guaranteed workers the right to collective bargaining. [2:16] Republicans at the time tried to smear it as socialist. [2:20] But Dems didn't give a fuck. [2:22] They passed Social Security later that year and were like, [2:25] yeah, Social Security. [2:27] Social. [2:28] We put it right in the name, bro. [2:30] Come at us. [2:31] In 1938, Democrats created the minimum wage in the 40-hour work week. [2:35] And in 1965, they started Medicare. [2:38] This was a party unafraid to fight on the side of workers and against capital. [2:43] And it made states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, [2:46] which were built on manufacturing and agriculture, [2:48] Democratic strongholds. [2:50] Places that Democrats could count on. [2:53] Maybe even take for granted. [2:55] I mean, why would Hillary even need to visit Wisconsin? [2:59] Now, I know what you're thinking. [3:00] Really? [3:00] Hassan, you're going to relitigate 2016 all over again? [3:03] I'll be honest with you. [3:04] I feel like relitigating 2016 is kind of hack as a concept. [3:09] So what I'm going to do is relitigate the 1990s. [3:13] It was Hillary Clinton's husband, jazz icon Bill Clinton, [3:18] who pushed Democrats towards more business-friendly practices [3:21] and away from labor. [3:22] Bill Clinton's 1992 platform was silent on antitrust and monopoly power, [3:27] which had been a party plank for Democrats for over a hundred years. [3:32] And the next year, he signed NAFTA, [3:34] which enshrined into law that investor rights would get priority over labor rights. [3:39] This was all happening as inequality was getting worse [3:42] and leaving the working class behind, [3:44] which was totally understood at the time [3:46] by the people inside the Clinton administration. [3:49] In fact, this is Clinton's labor secretary, Robert Reich, [3:52] speaking in 1994, just a year after NAFTA was signed. [3:56] My friends, we are on the way to becoming a two-tiered society [4:01] composed of a few winners and a larger group of Americans left behind [4:07] whose anger and whose disillusionment is easily manipulated. [4:14] Today, the targets of that rage are immigrants [4:17] and welfare mothers and government officials and gays [4:23] and an ill-defined counterculture. [4:29] But as the middle class continues to erode, [4:33] who will be the targets tomorrow? [4:36] Don't worry, Rob, it's still the same people. [4:39] But Clinton didn't just stop at NAFTA. [4:41] In 1996, he signed the Welfare Reform Act, [4:45] ending cash assistance for millions of people in poverty, [4:48] and then bragged about it in campaign ads. [4:51] He signed tough welfare reform, work requirements, time limits, [4:55] forced teenage mothers to stay in school or lose benefits. [4:58] Yeah, Bill, I'm sick of these welfare queens [5:00] not finishing the Great Gatsby. [5:04] Here's what's crazy about that ad. [5:06] Those aren't even black teenagers. [5:08] Do you know how Republican you have to be [5:10] to go after white teen moms? [5:13] Once Bill was done handcuffing the working class, [5:16] he unleashed the investor class, [5:19] repealing Glass-Steagall and passing the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, [5:23] which basically turned Wall Street into a giant casino. [5:26] Now, there's a reason people look back fondly on the 90s. [5:30] This actually worked for a while. [5:32] There were budget surpluses, economic growth soared. [5:36] Millions of jobs were created. [5:38] Housing prices went up and up and up. [5:41] What could possibly go wrong? [5:44] Lehman Brothers, a 158-year-old firm, filed for bankruptcy. [5:48] The House passes a sprawling $700 billion government rescue [5:53] of the financial industry. [5:54] 2.6 million jobs were cut from the economy last year. [5:58] That's the greatest decline since 1945. [6:01] Why weren't we bailed out? [6:02] That live grenade of financial deregulation [6:04] that Bill Clinton left in the economy, [6:06] it all blew up in 2008, right when I was graduating college. [6:09] And thanks to the weakened social safety net, [6:12] further weakened by George Bush, [6:13] millions of people were pushed into poverty. [6:16] And by the time Barack Obama came along, [6:18] things were starting to get a little awkward. [6:21] Even though anger at Wall Street was spiking, [6:23] it was still an important source of funding [6:25] for the Democratic Party. [6:27] Now, Obama at least gestured towards fighting [6:31] on behalf of the working class. [6:32] But let's be clear who Senator McCain's fighting for. [6:35] He's not fighting for Joe the plumber. [6:38] He's fighting for Joe the hedge fund manager. [6:40] But on Obama's watch, no bankers went to jail, [6:45] and inequality kept skyrocketing [6:47] as union membership continued to fall. [6:50] And when all that hope he sold didn't come through, [6:53] it curdled into cynicism. [6:55] Working class people kept going into the voting boots, [6:58] pulling the lever, and nothing changed. [7:00] In fact, a 2014 study of policy outcomes over 20 years [7:04] found that economic elites have substantial independent impacts [7:08] on U.S. government policy, [7:09] while average citizens have little or no independent influence. [7:13] It was basically a math proof that the 1% ruled [7:16] and the 99% drooled. [7:19] So unless your dad works for Blackstone or BlackRock, [7:22] you're fucked. [7:23] So it's no coincidence that two years later, in 2016, [7:26] the two most popular presidential candidates [7:28] were people who could credibly claim [7:30] that they weren't in Wall Street's pockets [7:32] and would fight for the working class. [7:35] Special interests, lobbyists, donors, [7:38] they make large contributions to politicians, [7:41] and they have total control over those politicians. [7:44] I don't want anybody to control me [7:47] but the people right out there. [7:49] We need a political revolution [7:50] where millions of people stand up [7:53] and say loudly and clearly [7:55] that our government belongs to all of us [7:58] and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. [8:02] Of course, we all know what happened next. [8:05] The Democratic Party backed Hillary Clinton, [8:08] whose campaign followed the usual playbook, [8:10] ignoring working class voters and focusing on suburban moderates. [8:14] That is not a conspiracy theory, okay? [8:17] Chuck Schumer literally said it out loud [8:19] three months before the election. [8:21] For every blue-collar Democrat we will lose in Western PA, [8:27] we will pick up two, three moderate Republicans [8:31] in the suburbs of Philadelphia. [8:33] And you can repeat that in Ohio, [8:35] in Illinois, in Wisconsin. [8:37] 2016 was the year the suburban strategy stopped working. [8:41] It was the Democrats' worst turnout for union members [8:44] and rural voters since Walter Mondale in 1984. [8:48] So that brings us to today, [8:50] 10 years after 2016, [8:52] and the Democrats still have not figured out [8:56] how to win back all those working class people that they lost. [9:00] Now, I've heard the ideas. [9:02] We should run DSA candidates. [9:04] Great. [9:04] We should shut up about trans rights. [9:07] Not great. [9:07] And we need a Joe Rogan of the left. [9:12] But it's clear that there are millions of Americans [9:14] who still feel politically homeless. [9:17] A recent poll showed that 43% of Americans [9:20] are not happy with either party. [9:22] Honestly, I thought that number would be higher. [9:24] The way this is always framed by the media [9:26] is a blue versus red problem. [9:28] The country has never been more divided. [9:31] We've never been more divided. [9:32] Our policies have never been more divided. [9:34] Our country's never been more divided. [9:35] Our country's never been more divided than it is today. [9:38] This country has never been more divided. [9:40] But there are ways in which the working class is very united. [9:43] They are united in hating the billionaire psychos [9:46] running the economy. [9:47] They are united in their opposition [9:49] to the Scrooge McDuck corruption in Washington. [9:51] And now we're seeing the rise of maybe the most energetic, [9:55] bipartisan, working class coalition [9:57] that we have seen in a generation. [9:59] We're all saying in unison, [10:02] fuck AI data centers. [10:04] The backlash against AI data centers is growing [10:08] with protests from coast to coast in dozens of states today. [10:12] The issue uniting many Americans across the political divide. [10:15] We don't want this. [10:17] It is not going to benefit us in any way. [10:19] We are not going to pay double the amount of our utility bills. [10:23] Do you understand that? [10:25] We don't get anything for it. [10:26] Other than we're losing land, we're losing water, [10:28] we're losing air quality. [10:29] Why are you protecting? [10:30] To talk about this more, I reached out to a media outlet [10:35] whose mission statement is building power for the working class. [10:38] Since 2021, More Perfect Union has been doing on-the-ground reporting [10:42] focusing on labor unions, inequality, and corporate power. [10:45] And maybe no other media outlet out there right now [10:48] is doing more reporting on the backlash to AI data centers. [10:52] So I sat down with one of their reporters, John Russell, [10:56] a West Virginia native, someone who has spent years [10:58] having real conversations with working class voters, [11:01] trying to genuinely connect with them in good faith. [11:04] We talked about the bipartisan coalition forming against big tech. [11:07] It's a mask off moment where people can see what side you really are on. [11:13] How he connects with people who maybe don't share his politics. [11:16] If they know you're coming from a genuine place, [11:18] you're not trying to hide something, [11:19] you're being upfront about who you are, [11:21] that can kind of set the tone for a conversation. [11:25] And as someone from Appalachia, [11:27] I got his take on the vice president. [11:30] What is your take on J.D. Vance? [11:31] Oh, trash. Trash. [11:34] I mean, what's the problem with J.D. Vance [11:37] other than all the stuff he says and does and is? [11:43] And of course, his face. [11:55] West Virginia is one of those states that your hand is a map of it. [11:58] And it is a middle finger and it's perfect. [12:01] So literally, this is West Virginia, Eastern Panhandle. [12:05] You got Maryland down here. [12:06] You have Morgantown. [12:08] So Wheeling's right here. [12:09] This is Ohio. [12:11] I grew up here. [12:12] But it's like Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, all these states. [12:15] This area is where generations of my family is from. [12:18] The cuts for us there is this place called The Pits. [12:22] They want to currently build a three gigawatt data center on The Pits. [12:27] What The Pits is, is thousands of acres of absentee land in the hills [12:33] that for decades, like an outlaw dirt bike culture has taken over. [12:41] Oh, shit. [12:41] East of the Mississippi, if you want to go crazy off-roading, [12:45] look this up on the internet. [12:46] Yeah. [12:47] You go to The Pits outside of Wellsville, Ohio. [12:50] And it's like, there are no rules. [12:52] Nobody knows who owns the land. [12:54] It's like a dirt bike gang has taken this over. [12:55] So X Games meets The Lost Boys from Peter Pan. [12:58] And I'm seeing this, like, you know, data centers are uniting left and right. [13:02] Yes. [13:03] In crazy ways. [13:04] Yes. [13:05] And I'm watching, like, everybody I grew up with in high school [13:08] who I saw, like, send a dirt bike off a cliff, [13:11] like, organizing petitions against data centers. [13:15] Right, right, right. [13:15] And I'm like, there's something to work with here. [13:16] Yeah, yeah, totally. [13:17] High school Johnny Knoxville is like, fuck these data centers. [13:21] Yeah, get these out of here, dude. [13:22] They'll dismantle it. [13:23] Okay. [13:24] One of the things that I love about the videos that you do for More Perfect Union [13:27] is you actually go out into the field and you do practical reporting. [13:33] You are not a cable news pundit sitting on a roundtable, [13:37] basically arguing with someone before commercial break. [13:41] Yeah. [13:42] I want to chat with you. [13:43] Let's break down a few words that get thrown around in media circles oftentimes. [13:49] Let's start with rural America. [13:51] If you're living in rural America, [13:53] I think one of the things it's defined by, [13:55] regardless of where you go, is extraction. [13:57] Like, if you are in the middle of the country, [14:01] like, large-scale monoculture agriculture, [14:06] where monopolies are owning all the inputs, [14:09] that's kind of the economy that you deal with. [14:12] If you're in the mountains of West Virginia, [14:14] it's been the extractive industry of coal. [14:16] That's rural. [14:17] If it takes a while to drive to go get groceries, [14:21] rural. [14:22] You know, there's all these indicators that fall on a spectrum [14:25] from, you know, the city center to the suburbs to the exurbs [14:30] to where it takes a while to get to Walmart, you know? [14:33] But I would say, you know, [14:36] the extraction economy is a major theme in, like, [14:39] the rural coverage that I do. [14:41] And that always comes paired with, you know, [14:46] I think of the coverage we did of West Virginia data centers. [14:48] Like, there is such a push to put these things [14:52] in communities that have already had [14:56] most of their wealth taken out of there. [14:58] Yeah. [14:59] They're used to it. [14:59] And so the next wave of this wealth extraction [15:01] is something like data centers. [15:03] And I think that's a uniting thing. [15:04] For the people in my audience, [15:07] who perhaps have family members that voted for Donald Trump [15:10] and see these people as irredeemable, [15:13] in your reporting, what would you like them to know? [15:17] I think the way that we consume, [15:20] the way we talk to our family members, [15:23] first of all, like, check where you're coming from, [15:25] you know, because if you're just trying to defend [15:27] a political party, [15:29] I think you got to go deeper than that [15:31] to rescue people who are a little too far gone. [15:33] You have to get back to shared values. [15:36] And there are a lot of people in Trump country [15:39] that share the value of wanting to hold it. [15:43] They wanted to hold the Epstein class accountable. [15:45] That was the whole thing with their base, right? [15:48] You can get in there and relate on that thing. [15:51] But if you're just trying to come in and say, [15:53] your party's bad and my party's good, [15:55] they're prepared for that. [15:56] And you got to go on values. [15:58] I mean, speaking of values, [16:00] naturally, you lean a little bit more left, right? [16:03] Yeah, yeah. [16:03] How do you unlock people [16:07] who have more conservative positions than you? [16:09] Is it the mullet doing the work? [16:11] Is it the mullet? [16:11] Like, what's the... [16:12] It is. [16:13] It is my... [16:14] It's a little bit of this. [16:15] No, you're clearly affable. [16:17] You genuinely come from a place of curiosity. [16:20] But what did you find was the way [16:22] that you connected with people [16:23] that don't vote like you [16:24] or perhaps share the same values that you do? [16:26] Well, it does help to look like this, you know? [16:30] But I did find, growing up where I did, [16:33] before I got hired at More Perfect Union, [16:35] I worked at a dive bar. [16:37] Shout out to Johnny's Bar, baby. [16:39] Shout out to Johnny's Bar. [16:40] And that's where I learned something [16:43] that helps me in my work all the time, [16:44] which is I just, I wear my politics on my sleeve [16:47] and I don't try to hide that with people. [16:50] And I think that if they know [16:52] you're coming from a genuine place, [16:53] you're not trying to hide something, [16:55] you're being upfront about who you are, [16:56] that can kind of set the tone for a conversation. [17:00] And that's what I always did in Johnny's Bar. [17:02] Like, before I got hired at More Perfect Union, [17:04] I was making TikToks about like, [17:06] you know, we should all join together [17:08] as people in the same boat here [17:09] and maybe take back some of our power. [17:12] I talk left-wing politics in my small town bar [17:14] with people mostly whose idea of a leftist [17:16] is the actual devil. [17:18] Was there a moment that inspired you [17:19] to start making those videos? [17:20] Like what, you know, not to like heroes journey this, [17:25] but like what was the inciting incident? [17:27] What was the moment that made you go like, [17:29] oh, I actually, I wanna go to the cesspool [17:32] that is social media and like talk about politics [17:35] and perhaps reach out to people that feel unheard. [17:39] I think I've always been angry [17:40] about how this billionaire owned media [17:43] lied to the people I grew up with. [17:45] And I've always believed in the possibility [17:47] of them joining together with other people [17:50] who are in the same boat [17:52] so that we can end some of this suck [17:54] that we're currently in. [17:55] And I was like, there's gotta be a way to do this. [17:58] And everyone's on their phone. [17:59] So why don't we pump out some stuff [18:01] and see what happens? [18:02] You know, maybe suggest, [18:03] hey, we should all get together on this. [18:06] So this idea of joining together, right? [18:08] Yeah. [18:08] People talk about coalitions all the time. [18:10] It's something that you've really focused on. [18:12] A thing that gets talked about in lefty politics [18:15] is the idea of building coalitions [18:17] around the working class. [18:19] Yeah. [18:19] How would you define working class? [18:21] Yeah. [18:22] Anybody who doesn't make their money from owning stocks. [18:26] Anybody who makes their money from selling labor. [18:29] Anybody who, like, if you can't call Howard Lutnick, [18:34] you're working class. [18:36] Got it. [18:36] If something that you say in public [18:39] moves markets or starts wars, [18:44] you know, then you might not be working class. [18:47] You know, this is the first time [18:48] I've actually really heard this articulated well this way. [18:50] You're basically talking about labor [18:55] that perhaps works for companies. [18:59] You could work at a grocery store. [19:00] You could work at a variety of different places. [19:03] But if you are not part of the equities class, [19:06] you're part of the working class. [19:09] To me. [19:10] To me. [19:11] Yeah. [19:11] If you get your money by selling your labor, [19:14] most of your money by selling your labor, [19:16] to me, you're working class. [19:17] And I think that doesn't strike people [19:19] because we're, [19:20] the assumption is like a white guy in a hard hat. [19:23] Yeah. [19:23] You know, a doctor and a lawyer, [19:25] you know, we kind of separate that in the public. [19:27] But I don't think we should. [19:29] Like dentist? [19:31] Yeah. [19:31] Working class, man. [19:32] And like dude who bags groceries at Safeway [19:35] where I used to work. [19:36] Yes. [19:36] And I was fired, [19:37] which is some fucked up shit. [19:38] You got to tell me. [19:39] I thought it was a pretty good employee. [19:40] I just didn't want to work there, [19:43] but I did work. [19:43] I'm on your side. [19:44] I thought I did. [19:44] I thought I was decent. [19:45] I didn't want to in my heart. [19:46] What did you do at Safeway? [19:47] I was, I was a courtesy clerk. [19:50] Okay. [19:50] Which is, I bag groceries. [19:51] Yeah. [19:52] Essential work. [19:53] Yeah. [19:53] Essential work. [19:54] And shout out to my boy who got me the position. [19:55] I still owe you a huge thank you. [19:57] Shout out to Chris. [19:57] Thank you for getting me that job. [19:58] Way to go, Chris. [19:59] I fucked it up. [19:59] It wasn't, [20:00] and you vouched for me [20:01] and I fucked it up [20:02] and I still live with that, [20:03] but me and Chris are boys. [20:04] Let me, [20:04] let me get us back on track. [20:06] So, [20:07] you're basically saying, [20:10] hey, my cousin who's a dentist [20:11] and plumber, [20:14] there's a connection here. [20:15] Yeah. [20:16] And I think we need to update that now [20:17] because you look at the scale of wealth in America [20:20] and we have a trillionaire. [20:23] We have a trillionaire. [20:24] We have close to a thousand people [20:26] with a billion dollars. [20:28] You know, [20:28] for me, [20:29] I'm always trying to get people [20:30] to think about the difference [20:31] between a million and a billion. [20:32] Yeah. [20:33] A million seconds is 11 days. [20:35] A billion seconds is 32 years. [20:37] Holy shit. [20:38] A trillion seconds is 32,000 years. [20:41] We have a trillionaire, man. [20:42] And you think like being a dentist [20:44] is closer to being the guy [20:45] with a trillion dollars [20:46] than it is the working class. [20:47] No, [20:47] it's like the, [20:48] to me in America right now [20:51] with wealth inequality, [20:52] as bad as it is, [20:53] you're all working class. [20:54] Now that's not to like flatten [20:55] the difference between a lawyer [20:57] and someone bagging groceries. [20:59] There are differences there, [21:00] but for the purposes of fixing our problems, [21:03] which I view as mostly being caused [21:06] by people with too much money and power, [21:07] making all the decisions, [21:09] we are all working class. [21:10] Politicians always use this phrase. [21:12] We want good working class jobs. [21:15] Yeah. [21:15] And, [21:15] and they always phrase it like [21:18] people love their jobs. [21:20] Yeah. [21:21] I think most jobs suck. [21:22] Yeah. [21:22] I've done food service. [21:23] I've done, [21:24] I've worked at grocery stores. [21:26] I've worked at Office Max, [21:28] selling printers. [21:28] All my jobs that I've had outside of comedy [21:33] pretty much suck. [21:34] Does comedy, [21:35] is comedy rock? [21:35] Comedy, [21:36] comedy. [21:36] I like, [21:36] I mean, [21:37] I'm, [21:37] I'm lucky enough to do what I'm passionate about. [21:39] Yes. [21:39] Okay. [21:40] I feel that way too. [21:41] But every, [21:41] but every other job that I had fucking sucks. [21:43] I was a stump grinder for seven years. [21:45] Oh shit. [21:45] Yeah. [21:46] Yeah. [21:46] That takes the cake. [21:47] I don't even know what that is. [21:48] You have like a giant diesel machine [21:51] and then you blast a tree stump into dust. [21:54] Seven years. [21:55] But why do you have to do that though? [21:57] It was good money. [21:58] No, [21:58] no, [21:58] but people wanted the, [21:59] like there's like that stump needs to go. [22:01] You'd be surprised at the amount of stumps in America. [22:03] So like, [22:04] here's the thing. [22:05] And like, [22:05] are you a homeowner? [22:07] I own a home. [22:08] Yes. [22:09] Okay. [22:09] A yard of any kind. [22:10] We have a yard. [22:10] We have a front yard. [22:11] I don't know the situation in New York city, [22:13] but like if you're owning a yard out there, [22:14] if you're, [22:14] if you're renting a yard, [22:16] sure you'll end up with a tree stump in your yard. [22:18] And then people will go try to like set it on fire, [22:21] drill holes in it, [22:22] or like dig it out. [22:23] There's no better way to get it out than, [22:25] than blasting it out with a diesel machine and someone like me. [22:28] Got it. [22:29] Children must've loved you. [22:30] Like my son, [22:30] whatever you just described, [22:32] he's six. [22:33] It's very Bob the builder. [22:33] Yeah. [22:34] He would have fucking loved that. [22:36] Most of my demographic is just, [22:38] you know, [22:38] children enthralled by machines. [22:40] Gotcha. [22:41] To get us back on point. [22:43] What I'm saying is, [22:43] is we don't need to romanticize jobs per se. [22:49] Yeah. [22:50] But what I think we need to focus on is common human dignity. [22:54] Yeah. [22:55] And the way people are compensated for their labor gives them the dignity to provide for [22:59] their families, [23:00] pay for healthcare, [23:01] send their children to school. [23:02] Totally. [23:02] If a loved one gets sick, [23:04] take care of them, [23:05] get the bag, [23:06] take care of grandma, [23:07] be able to look out for my mom and dad, [23:08] my sister. [23:09] If someone's in a bind, [23:10] I can help them. [23:10] I can see that on the bumper sticker right now. [23:13] Like get the bag. [23:13] Yeah. [23:14] Take care of grandma. [23:14] So I can take care of grandma. [23:15] Like chill. [23:16] Yeah. [23:17] Yeah. [23:17] Be able to help my sister out if something bad happens. [23:20] Bag. [23:20] Yeah. [23:20] Yes. [23:21] Grandma chill. [23:21] One of the great things about my job right now is I get to kind of drop into locations [23:26] and see how things are going there. [23:27] We did a piece in Italy about worker own cooperatives. [23:31] Cause not only do I think we should stop like romanticizing jobs, [23:34] but we should think about how jobs are organized because we're used to one way here in America [23:40] where most of them suck. [23:41] Yes. [23:42] And what's it like in Italy? [23:43] So we did a story where like a fifth of the economy in this region of Italy and Northern [23:49] Italy comes from companies that are owned by the people who work there. [23:54] This, [23:55] and I remember we were standing on the floor. [23:58] Wait, [23:58] how does that work? [23:59] Okay. [23:59] So the workers own the company. [24:00] They can hire and fire their boss. [24:03] And like, [24:03] wait, [24:03] is this like the way the Green Bay Packers are owned by the city or whatever? [24:06] I never understood this concept. [24:08] Yes. [24:08] Okay. [24:09] So break this down for me. [24:10] Please make me understand it. [24:10] I can't, [24:10] I can't see, [24:11] I don't know the details of the Packers, [24:12] but basically a cooperative, [24:14] right? [24:15] Okay. [24:15] This is a company like any company you would work for, [24:18] but instead of being owned by one guy and shareholders and a board, [24:22] okay, [24:22] the workers are the shareholders, [24:24] the board, [24:24] and they make the decisions to run the company. [24:27] You can hire somebody to be CEO and you can also fire them. [24:32] And it was mind blowing to me to go over as an American to Italy, [24:36] stand on the floor of a factory where 2,000 people worked, [24:40] just like the ones that closed down after NAFTA in the Ohio Valley, [24:44] where I'm from. [24:45] They got a 2,000 person factory. [24:47] It's doing manufacturing. [24:49] It's owned by the workers. [24:50] And I'm standing there with the boss of the company and three workers. [24:55] And I asked the workers, [24:56] what would you do if your boss made 300 times more than you make? [25:00] And they were like, [25:01] we would fire him. [25:02] The workers are highly paid. [25:03] They work in manufacturing. [25:04] They control who runs the company. [25:06] They make the products. [25:07] And then they go sip espresso at 4 PM and be reasonable. [25:12] Yeah. [25:12] There are different ways to do jobs. [25:13] No, [25:13] no, [25:13] but what's the catch here? [25:14] Like the way you're describing, [25:15] I was like, [25:15] no, [25:15] no, [25:16] there's a catch though. [25:16] What's the catch? [25:17] There's, [25:18] you know, [25:19] nothing's perfect. [25:20] Okay. [25:21] How long do you have to work there to be able to vote? [25:23] Or the moment day one, [25:25] you're essentially on the quote unquote board? [25:27] So this would be a plug to watch the video because we had [25:31] a worker who had just joined all the way up to somebody who'd been there a long [25:35] term time. [25:36] First of all, [25:36] you have far less turnover. [25:38] You have far more expertise. [25:40] Sure. [25:40] Yeah. [25:40] Yeah. [25:40] You've incentivized staying there. [25:43] Yeah. [25:43] And there's a clear path from the guy we were talking to is 20 years old, [25:47] to spend a short amount of time and become, [25:50] you know, [25:51] a worker owner. [25:52] Would you say kind of the core tenants of the videos that you work on for [25:58] More Perfect Union, [25:59] are they essentially about labor solidarity? [26:02] Yeah. [26:02] It's about strength in numbers. [26:03] It's about solidarity. [26:04] It's about different ways to organize the economy and work. [26:09] One of the things I hear in media reporting all the time is here is how the [26:13] Democratic Party abandoned the working class. [26:16] Yeah. [26:16] What does that mean? [26:19] Yeah. [26:20] Well, [26:21] that makes me think of Elliott County. [26:24] We did a piece for More Perfect Union. [26:26] And this was the Emmy award-winning piece that you made about it. [26:29] Yeah. [26:29] We won two Emmys. [26:30] And shout out, [26:31] I should say, [26:31] shout out to the whole team at More Perfect Union. [26:33] Like anybody, [26:34] any video that I'm on, [26:36] there's a whole team behind that. [26:37] Josh Hersfeld Crowe and Meg Hershline, [26:40] Faz, [26:40] Faz, [26:41] Josh Miller Lewis will go down the whole list. [26:43] It'd take too long. [26:43] But Elliott County is the only county in America, [26:48] this is Eastern Kentucky. [26:50] It's the only county in America that voted 144 years in a row for Democrats [26:54] before flipping to Trump by one of the largest margins. [26:57] Talk about fumbling the bag there. [26:58] They fumbled the bag. [27:00] 144 years, [27:00] you're running it up. [27:01] And then to just, [27:02] and then to flip your entire base. [27:05] But here's they, [27:06] to your question, [27:06] I would say the Democratic Party was responsible for fumbling that bag. [27:10] Because what we found there, [27:12] of course, [27:12] a lot of people who voted for Democrats forever and then flipped to Trump. [27:16] But you can trace through the history of the Democratic Party. [27:19] It used to be very much FDR. [27:21] And then it switched to, [27:24] you know, [27:24] Bill Clinton and corporate donors and, [27:26] and the Democratic Party that we know today that we see in a fight with these [27:32] primaries in a real contest for the direction, [27:34] you know, [27:35] like someone like Zeran Mamdani or more of what we've been used to. [27:40] So it is the FDR Labor Party that kept places like rural Kentucky voting for it forever [27:47] because they knew the deal. [27:49] You vote for Democrats because they're for the working man. [27:51] But eventually they lost those roots and, [27:54] and we suffered a pretty large consequence for that of people. [28:00] In your reporting, [28:01] what specifically did the Democratic Party do to betray the working class that made [28:06] people say, [28:07] fuck it, [28:07] I'm changing my vote? [28:08] Yeah. [28:09] Well, [28:09] you know, [28:10] I, [28:10] I target the Democratic Party a lot, [28:12] but I, [28:13] this really counts for both parties in our politics on the whole. [28:16] Sure. [28:16] But they just got, [28:17] you know, [28:18] we, [28:18] over the course of getting thousands of billionaires now, [28:23] both of our parties have just switched to exclusive, [28:25] exclusively serving their agenda. [28:27] I think about this, [28:28] um, [28:29] report that came out more than a decade ago from Princeton, [28:32] I think, [28:33] where it's like, [28:34] you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. [28:36] The conclusion of this report was that, [28:38] uh, [28:39] the American people have little to no control over the policies passed by either [28:44] party or either administration. [28:46] So I think you can say about the Republicans that they've always been for, [28:50] uh, [28:51] corporate control and for the agenda of really large money. [28:54] But for the long time, [28:55] you could say that less about the Democrats and then they started, [28:58] you know, [28:59] going for, [29:00] uh, [29:00] NAFTA and free trade. [29:02] And in the era of citizens United, [29:05] they're relying on corporate donations too much and you get, [29:08] let that happen for years. [29:09] Well, [29:09] aside from corporate donations is stupidity. [29:11] Also a part of it, [29:12] because there's this clip of Chuck Schumer from 2016, [29:14] where he's talking about the democratic party's sort of national strategy. [29:17] And I think about this at least twice a week. [29:19] Let's take a look for every blue collar Democrat. [29:23] We will lose in Western PA. [29:25] We will pick up two, [29:28] three, [29:28] uh, [29:29] moderate Republicans in the suburbs of Philadelphia. [29:32] And you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin. [29:37] This is my sleep paralysis demon. [29:38] That's actually on a loop in my nightmares. [29:41] Oh God. [29:41] I've watched it many times. [29:43] That's your Freddy Krueger. [29:44] Yeah, [29:44] it is. [29:44] Oh God. [29:45] It is. [29:45] Yeah. [29:45] I wake up in a cold sweat every night and it's Chuck Schumer just selling us out. [29:50] Uh, [29:50] yeah, [29:50] I think, [29:51] you know, [29:51] right there, [29:51] you can see the strategy of trying to go after suburban, [29:55] you know, [29:55] wine moms and such. [29:56] And I think, [29:57] um, [29:59] that is because we, [30:00] they really lost their roots. [30:02] Right. [30:03] Um, [30:03] and they're trying to reconstruct the base that is, [30:07] uh, [30:07] that goes well and doesn't offend corporate donors. [30:10] So they say like, [30:11] Oh, [30:11] let's try to hunt for that base in the suburbs of all these cities because those [30:15] people will kind of get on a cultural agenda that doesn't offend our donors. [30:20] Right. [30:20] You know, [30:20] all these major corporations can slap a pride flag onto a pretty terrible agenda, [30:25] uh, [30:26] but not really be there, [30:28] uh, [30:29] to stand up for policies that represent people. [30:31] Right. [30:32] And unfortunately I think there hasn't been a change from that strategy. [30:36] I mean, [30:36] Schumer still leads, [30:38] the party. [30:39] This is the thing I cannot understand. [30:41] How is that possible? [30:42] There's no gravity. [30:42] There's no consequences. [30:44] Kolkata chai has brand new teabags. [30:46] It is so easy. [30:47] I literally don't have to think about it. [30:49] Hot water, [30:50] teabag, [30:50] mug, [30:51] donezo. [30:52] Okay. [30:52] But what do I think about now? [30:57] But real talk, [30:57] what is a microwave actually? [30:59] It hums, [31:00] it dings, [31:00] it spins, [31:01] but what is making the food hot? [31:04] Hello. [31:06] Screw you countertop Chernobyl. [31:08] Hard pass. [31:09] Okay. [31:10] Just enjoy this moment for one second without, [31:13] Ooh, [31:13] hello fridge. [31:14] Oh, [31:14] my chilly little frenemy. [31:16] I tolerate you, [31:18] but I do not trust you. [31:19] Do you remove heat or do you add coal? [31:22] Ew. [31:23] I'm getting cold. [31:23] I'm just thinking about it. [31:24] You know why I should make some chai to warm up? [31:27] Stupid Hassan, [31:28] you're already making chai, [31:29] but I forgot about it because these teabags are literally doing all the work. [31:33] Wait, [31:34] is it a teabag or a chai bag or a chai tea? [31:36] Nope. [31:37] No, [31:37] no, [31:37] no, [31:38] not going there. [31:39] Just add hot water, [31:40] milk, [31:40] and sweetener of your choice. [31:41] Honestly, [31:42] it's the best chai in the game. [31:44] I should go tell someone. [31:49] Something very unique has happened over the past 30 years where a disproportionate amount of power [31:53] in capital has been allocated to two different things. [31:56] And I call it more broadly tech and wall street. [31:59] Yeah. [32:00] The amount of sort of both political capital and capital capital those two buckets have. [32:07] Yeah. [32:07] There is a particular LinkedIn class that is connected to both tech and wall street. [32:12] Yeah. [32:13] And, [32:13] and now tech is wall street. [32:16] Yes. [32:16] Look at the, [32:17] you know, [32:18] seven companies that are driving the S and P 500 growth. [32:21] And it's all these, [32:22] it's Silicon Valley now. [32:24] Correct. [32:24] And then that shows up in the areas where I grew up with the physical infrastructure of data centers. [32:29] And, [32:30] uh, [32:31] you know, [32:32] right now, [32:34] that was one vision of putting together a political coalition that we know fails now. [32:39] Yes. [32:40] But when you have, [32:41] um, [32:41] wall street and tech building out these data centers in all of the places where the Democrats lost, [32:46] I am seeing a coalition of people coming together, [32:50] uh, [32:50] that is right and left saying no to big tech, [32:54] no to flat, [32:55] uh, [32:55] cameras. [32:56] And if the Democrats don't pay attention to that and realize that there is a coalition [33:01] right there in the places you have lost, [33:03] but you got to take up, [33:04] you got to take a stand against the corporate donation, [33:08] uh, [33:08] against corporate donors, [33:10] against tech. [33:10] It's right there for the taking. [33:11] That is the, [33:12] the strange Venn diagram that I have seen. [33:15] We're both left and right. [33:16] It can be hardcore red, [33:18] hardcore blue. [33:18] Both sides are equally like fuck AI data centers. [33:24] Yeah. [33:24] Based on your reporting. [33:25] What is that? [33:27] What, [33:27] what, [33:28] what, [33:28] what is this huge middle finger to these? [33:30] Yeah. [33:31] Essentially these big ass server racks that suck up all this water. [33:34] There's no other issue where the mask has been completely off and the agenda of these companies is totally visible. [33:40] I'll give another example for coverage with more perfect union. [33:44] Yes. [33:44] We go to cover a data center proposal going into Mingo County, [33:48] West Virginia. [33:49] Yes. [33:49] Mingo and Logan County. [33:50] Yes. [33:51] These are the coalfields. [33:52] They are used to big companies coming in, [33:54] taking all the wealth and leaving a mess. [33:56] In the process of shooting that piece, [34:00] we spoke to a woman in a minivan pulled over on the side of the road with a big five gallon jug, [34:05] getting water out of a pipe coming out of a mountain. [34:09] And that is the only drinking water. [34:11] She comes there three times a week to get drinking water for her family. [34:14] That's how she gets drinking water in the coalfields of West Virginia. [34:17] They want to stick a data center there and say, [34:19] Hey, [34:20] you go get your water out of a mountain. [34:23] We're going to give all the clean water that you've been denied for decades to a data center. [34:27] It's a mask off moment where people can see what side you really are on. [34:32] I also think it's the first time we've seen technology be presented in such a way where people are like, [34:37] no, [34:37] I get how AI makes you rich. [34:38] Yeah. [34:39] How the fuck does this make me rich? [34:41] Yeah. [34:41] That's the other thing about it, [34:42] man. [34:42] It's like, [34:43] you know, [34:43] I see people like, [34:45] Oh, [34:45] well, [34:45] this is how companies operate, [34:47] right? [34:47] They, [34:48] they come to areas where they already made a mess where people are desperate for jobs. [34:52] And a lot of people will say like, [34:53] Hey, [34:53] we need these jobs. [34:55] But AI data centers are literally a job killing supercomputer. [35:00] Totally. [35:00] That's what it does. [35:01] Yeah. [35:01] That's how they sell it on wall street. [35:03] And people know this. [35:04] There's no jobs in there, [35:06] man. [35:06] So, [35:06] so, [35:07] so if you're a grocery store worker, [35:08] you work at a fast food company. [35:09] If you, [35:10] you know, [35:10] even do clerical work at, [35:12] uh, [35:13] your, [35:14] your local school or dentist office, [35:16] here's my question. [35:17] Yeah. [35:17] And you're reporting, [35:18] right? [35:18] You you're speaking with all these Trump voters, [35:20] but if you remember, [35:21] do you remember the inauguration? [35:22] Yeah. [35:23] Essentially the fang stocks were right behind it there. [35:26] And you would think the way Donald Trump positioned himself, [35:28] it would be like cowboy hat, [35:30] no shade to you mullet. [35:32] Like, [35:33] you know what I mean? [35:33] Like, [35:33] like he would have signaled like, [35:36] Hey, [35:37] here you are. [35:38] Yeah. [35:38] Cowboy stadium behind me. [35:40] Like I'm America's team, [35:41] but he basically had the top 10 companies in the S and P 500. [35:44] Yeah. [35:44] Like Elon Musk is like tweaking out on Kessler. [35:47] I mean Zuckerberg thousand yard stare, [35:49] but just weird, [35:50] but the head of Apple, [35:51] the head of Amazon, [35:52] you know what I'm saying? [35:52] Tim Apple. [35:53] And so, [35:54] Tim Apple, [35:55] but my, [35:56] so my question is, [35:57] is that when, [35:58] when you talk to the people that voted for Donald Trump and they watched the [36:01] inauguration, [36:03] that scene signaled something to me. [36:05] What did that scene signal to them in your reporting? [36:08] Well, [36:08] that's the thing that a lot of people assume, [36:11] uh, [36:11] a lot of people assume that doesn't land with Trump voters. [36:14] It absolutely does. [36:16] But for it to mean anything politically, [36:18] you have to have a political movement. [36:19] That's pointing that out that says there they are on his side. [36:24] And here I am on your side. [36:26] Yeah. [36:27] Is the democratic party doing that? [36:29] Or are they kind of trying to hold onto this coalition? [36:32] That's now lost umpteen elections, [36:34] uh, [36:35] and, [36:36] uh, [36:37] avoiding taking a stand against the people who are standing behind Donald Trump. [36:41] I think you have to draw it in a line in the sand, [36:44] but thankfully now we've seen a movement, [36:46] uh, [36:47] of that happening. [36:47] I mean, [36:48] you, [36:48] you have Zoran Mondani winning in New York city, [36:50] but it's not only that, [36:53] but now we see candidates, [36:54] uh, [36:55] from that model succeeding everywhere, [36:57] Michigan, [36:58] you know, [36:59] Colorado. [36:59] And I think that can succeed everywhere. [37:02] And you know, [37:03] something that has been less examined is the fact that there are little blue cities [37:09] all over red states, [37:10] uh, [37:11] where you can make government deliver for people, [37:14] where you can take back some of the public sphere and say, [37:18] you can expect excellent public services. [37:21] And we're also going to take a stand against data centers and flock cameras coming into town. [37:27] And I think that would sweep Huntington, [37:30] West Virginia, [37:30] Wheeling, [37:30] West Virginia, [37:31] little towns all across this country. [37:33] And, [37:34] uh, [37:35] you know, [37:36] that's something I haven't seen a wave of it happening, [37:39] but I think it's possible. [37:40] So I got a question for you. [37:41] I don't have the answer to it, [37:42] but there's two states that like are soon. [37:44] Hey, [37:44] look, [37:45] it joined me, [37:46] man. [37:46] Yeah, [37:47] please. [37:47] Well, [37:48] there's two states that I don't, [37:49] I don't fully get, [37:50] but I'd love your analysis on. [37:51] If you look at two states, [37:53] there's North Carolina and there's Kentucky. [37:54] Those are two states where the governor will be Democrat, [37:57] but the state voted for Donald Trump. [37:58] Yeah. [38:00] What do you think's happening there? [38:01] Yeah, [38:02] I can relate that back to covering Elliott County in Kentucky because Andy Beshear, [38:06] at the same time that Elliott County voted, [38:09] uh, [38:09] that's 144 years for Democrats, [38:11] then Donald Trump. [38:11] Same time they voted for Donald Trump. [38:13] They also voted for Andy Beshear. [38:15] The Kentucky governor, [38:17] Andy Beshear, [38:18] a Democrat, [38:19] has been reelected. [38:21] This is a very significant win for Democrats. [38:23] Beshear, [38:24] who ran as a defender of abortion rights in a large, [38:27] largely Republican commonwealth. [38:29] Kentucky is defeating Republican attorney general, [38:32] Daniel Cameron. [38:33] Now, [38:33] some people will point at Beshear and say, [38:36] that's the way to go. [38:37] That's the way to win. [38:38] But I think it's important to, [38:39] uh, [38:41] also realize that Beshear is losing those counties, [38:45] uh, [38:46] just at a slower pace. [38:48] Uh, [38:50] so he's, [38:50] he's, [38:51] he's being better than other Democrats on this. [38:53] Um, [38:54] but to really start winning those back, [38:56] you know, [38:57] I, [38:57] I think it comes down to taking a clear stand for, [39:00] for working people on an, [39:02] on an agenda that delivers and holding, [39:04] um, [39:05] the corporate bad actors accountable. [39:07] Thankfully, [39:07] that's going to be a lot easier to do because now you have this data center push going everywhere. [39:13] It's an easy stand to take. [39:14] So I want to get to, [39:15] you did this great piece with Bernie Sanders where you actually took him. [39:18] And you had to meet different Trump voters, [39:20] but here's the thing that I, [39:22] that I can't understand. [39:23] I totally get, [39:24] Hey, [39:25] the Democrats have abandoned us. [39:27] Yeah. [39:27] But the thing that I don't get is like, [39:29] but this guy, [39:31] like billionaire Scrooge McDuck, [39:35] I'm only out for myself. [39:37] Donald J. [39:38] Trump. [39:39] That's the guy. [39:41] Because if you think about what even he's doing, [39:44] cutting Medicare, [39:46] cutting Medicaid, [39:46] how is that in interest of workers? [39:50] Yeah. [39:50] And that's also something that people get very angry about. [39:54] You know, [39:55] I run into Trump voters all the time, [39:57] um, [39:58] who will tell me like, [40:00] it's not right to cut our Medicaid down here. [40:02] They get very angry about these things like, [40:04] uh, [40:05] disability and Medicaid, [40:07] social security, [40:08] things that people rely on. [40:09] They know, [40:10] uh, [40:10] when those things get cut and they're very angry about it, [40:13] but you have to have somebody standing up on that. [40:15] The other thing is, [40:16] it goes back to the media takeover. [40:19] Um, [40:20] you know, [40:20] we can sit here and look at Donald Trump and say, [40:22] I can't believe you'd be voting for this guy, [40:24] but you have to be in the media bubble that a lot of people are to realize [40:28] they're just overwhelming it with culture war issues, [40:31] uh, [40:31] to keep people divided. [40:33] And that's what you have to, [40:35] to break through in order, [40:37] uh, [40:38] to make any kind of change. [40:39] And I know you've spent a lot of time in the, [40:41] you know, [40:41] Fox media bubble. [40:42] Have you, [40:43] have you like turned on Fox news and watched it lately? [40:45] I can't, [40:45] I can't bro. [40:46] Yeah. [40:46] I can't. [40:46] It's crazy. [40:47] No, [40:47] but the, [40:47] I want to focus on what you were talking about, [40:50] which is there are these moments of unity that people aren't focusing on. [40:55] And I, [40:55] and I want to focus on one moment from your Elliot County interviews that you were [40:58] doing. [40:59] This is a video where you're talking to a Trump voter about immigration. [41:01] Let's take a look. [41:02] When it's people coming, [41:03] coming across the border versus say billionaires or something like that, [41:07] who's got the most influence over the problems that you think we'll face as a, [41:12] as a country. [41:13] Millionaires. [41:14] Yeah. [41:15] Yeah. [41:15] Yeah. [41:16] Do you think you have more in common with a migrant from Mexico or Donald J. [41:20] Trump? [41:21] Great question. [41:22] A migrant from Mexico. [41:23] Yeah. [41:24] A migrant from Mexico. [41:25] Absolutely. [41:26] Absolutely. [41:27] Because we're out here working to survive, [41:31] to feed our family. [41:32] So she straight up sounds like Bernie Sanders. [41:34] Yeah. [41:35] How common do you think this perspective is amongst the Trump voters that you've [41:39] interviewed? [41:40] I see it all the time. [41:41] And that was Nehemiah Stark behind the camera who asked that question and it was [41:44] key, but I see that all the time. [41:47] Also in Elliot County, [41:48] there's a Mexican restaurant in town and it is 99% white in that county. [41:56] People love the Mexican restaurant. [41:57] One of the things I'll do is, [41:58] you know, [41:59] I ask in that piece, [42:00] what's the top issue for you? [42:01] People will say the border. [42:02] We're in Kentucky, [42:04] thousands of miles away from the border. [42:06] And, [42:07] um, [42:07] that's only been a priority for like two years. [42:10] But if you go and say, [42:11] okay, [42:12] the border is a problem. [42:14] Uh, [42:14] why don't we start by kicking out the guy who runs a Mexican restaurant in town? [42:18] The answer you always get is no, [42:21] no, [42:21] no, [42:21] no, [42:21] not that guy. [42:22] He's not who I'm talking about. [42:23] I'm talking about everybody else who's doing crime and fraud and all of this. [42:28] But those are boogeymen that are made up by the media that, [42:32] are keeping those people voting in a way that serves the folks who own the media that's filling their head with lies. [42:39] Yeah. [42:40] I mean, [42:40] so this is happens all the time. [42:42] And I've, [42:42] I've had this conversation with people all the time as well. [42:45] When I had to go do field pieces for the daily show. [42:48] Yeah. [42:49] Cover different conventions. [42:51] But I've told people this before. [42:53] And sometimes there's an overlap. [42:54] And sometimes there are two different things, [42:55] which is there's ignorant people. [42:56] And then there's like bigots and racists. [42:58] Yeah. [42:58] Sometimes it's both. [42:59] Yeah. [43:00] Sometimes they're both ignorant and they're bigoted, [43:02] but sometimes it's just an ignorance thing. [43:04] Yes. [43:05] I think that, [43:06] I think that's the biggest bucket there is ignorance. [43:09] Yeah. [43:10] But that's something that you can, [43:12] you can unwind the ignorance. [43:14] It's not going to be easy. [43:15] So one time I went to the Republican national convention. [43:17] This is when the Muslim ban was happening. [43:19] Okay. [43:19] This was, [43:20] this was in the zeitgeist. [43:21] Yes. [43:21] So I, [43:22] so I did this field piece. [43:23] It was basically, [43:24] it was called like Hassan's goodbye tour. [43:26] So I basically went to the delegates from every state and I'm like, [43:27] Hey, [43:28] you're the delegate from Montana. [43:29] Tell me what big sky country is like. [43:30] And he's like, [43:31] big sky country is great. [43:32] You should go to Yellowstone park. [43:33] And I'm like, [43:34] Oh, [43:34] I'd love to go to Yellowstone. [43:35] I can't. [43:35] Why? [43:36] Uh, [43:36] you know, [43:37] the, [43:37] the guy you're voting for wants to ban Muslims from the country. [43:39] And then he was like, [43:40] Hassan's goodbye tour. [43:41] Right. [43:41] And then I like, [43:41] I hugged them and I'm like, [43:42] goodbye from Montana or whatever. [43:44] So that's the joke. [43:44] I'm sweating right now. [43:45] That was the joke. [43:46] I met this very lovely lady. [43:48] We have the tape. [43:48] We could play the tape, [43:49] but, [43:53] um, [43:53] she was like, [43:54] that's not going to happen. [43:55] Donald Trump's not going to do that to you. [43:56] You're one of the good ones. [43:58] And I was like, [43:58] you're one of the good ones too. [43:59] And then we hugged, [44:01] but, [44:03] um, [44:05] that is a part of my larger point, [44:06] which is there's, [44:07] there's a group of people that I feel, [44:12] um, [44:12] there's a chasm in between these two things. [44:15] There is this MS 13 Taliban boogeyman that they see in the media. [44:20] And then there's their day-to-day neighbor. [44:22] There is their, [44:24] uh, [44:24] uh, [44:25] Latino colleague at work. [44:27] There's the Muslim dentist that, [44:29] that works in town. [44:30] There's the, [44:30] you know, [44:31] Bengali cardiologists that they, [44:33] um, [44:34] are getting a heart exam for, [44:36] um, [44:36] with, [44:38] but let me ask you this. [44:39] There is this narrative within, [44:41] um, [44:42] media circles that the Republican party in the current MAGA movement is a white [44:47] Christian nationalism movement. [44:49] Yeah. [44:51] In all the States that you go to, [44:53] do you see them as part of this movement or is it not about that for them? [45:00] There it's a big country. [45:01] I'm sure there are parts where, [45:03] uh, [45:03] it's like anything else. [45:04] There are, [45:04] there are parts for which that is true, [45:06] but that's not my experience on the whole. [45:10] Um, [45:12] one of the things that I, [45:14] you know, [45:16] think is so interesting to, [45:17] to that population of people. [45:19] I, [45:19] I try, [45:20] you know, [45:21] I try to have revealing conversations with Republican voters and I try to point [45:27] out that, [45:28] Hey, [45:28] you might be rooting for what ice is doing right now, [45:31] but be careful because you might find out that this standing force is also for you [45:38] later on down the line. [45:40] And I think, [45:41] how do you make that connection though? [45:43] So right, [45:43] right now, [45:44] um, [45:44] you have NSPM seven, [45:47] you have Rubio going out there and putting people's name on a list. [45:50] And what they're doing is saying, [45:52] uh, [45:54] anybody who does these things, [45:56] they're part of the far left that we have to root out. [45:59] Yeah. [45:59] Who's a threat to America. [46:00] Which is so our audience knows. [46:01] What is NSPM seven? [46:02] It's a national, [46:03] it's national, [46:04] uh, [46:04] presidential security memorandum seven. [46:07] Okay. [46:08] Cause the way you said it so fast, [46:09] it was like, [46:10] I was like, [46:11] he just said a K-pop group and I don't know, [46:15] but I don't know. [46:16] So I just wanted to be like, [46:17] cause I didn't know. [46:18] Yeah. [46:18] I didn't know hunt tricks for a long time. [46:20] And then my daughter was like, [46:21] you don't know who hunt tricks is. [46:21] And I was like, [46:22] Oh fuck. [46:22] I have no clue who that is. [46:24] Yeah. [46:24] K-pop demon hunters movie on Netflix. [46:26] If you have children or daughters, [46:28] they're super into it. [46:30] Anyways. [46:30] Yeah. [46:30] Much more sinister and worrying. [46:32] Hey, [46:33] yeah. [46:33] Nefarious. [46:33] Hey, [46:33] no, [46:33] no, [46:34] no. [46:34] Hey, [46:34] they're fighting demons. [46:35] Just so you know, [46:35] okay. [46:36] Which is super fucked up too. [46:37] Ice and some of the demons that they're fighting, [46:39] but all the demons aren't bad. [46:40] Anyways, [46:41] I'm going on one of my tangents again, [46:43] back to you. [46:44] NSPM seven is what? [46:45] This is a presidential memorandum that directs the full weight of law [46:49] enforcement in the United States towards targets for enforcement. [46:53] And they list out some of those targets. [46:56] Uh, [46:56] and they all have that kind of under the umbrella of this far left threat. [47:01] Attorney general Pam Bondi's ordered the FBI to, [47:05] compile a list of what the justice department is calling domestic terrorist [47:10] organizations. [47:11] And one of the buckets of people in this memorandum is folks who are [47:16] anti big tech. [47:18] So if you are a Republican going out and say, [47:24] you get a crazy idea and you cut down a flock camera, [47:27] there's all kinds of news stories out there of people doing that with thousands [47:30] of comments and people cheering them on. [47:31] And maybe you're a Republican and doing that. [47:33] This is what's left of a flock camera here on Claremont Avenue. [47:36] It's one of several investigators say we're targeted by vandals. [47:41] Houston police say they're investigating as eyewitness news now has found that [47:44] at least half a dozen flock cameras destroyed across the city this week. [47:48] A man has been arrested for damaging, [47:49] close to a dozen flock cameras in the city of Suffolk. [47:53] What you might not realize is that you just landed yourself on the far left [47:58] terrorist list, you know, [48:00] according to NSPM seven and this standing force that is totally unaccountable, [48:05] that has murdered Americans ice. [48:07] You might find yourself on that list eventually. [48:10] If you are standing up against the priorities of big tech, [48:15] big capital in the people that they elect. [48:17] Just so our audience understands what this is, what is a flock camera? [48:21] That is one of these surveillance cameras. [48:23] It's a corporation called flock putting them out. [48:26] They have blown up all over the country, [48:29] thousands in a very short amount of time, and they read license plates, [48:34] and they are able to put that in and track your larger movements, [48:42] know where you're going, know if your car is getting hot. [48:45] They know all kinds of stuff about you by simply putting these cameras up, [48:51] small towns, big cities. [48:53] It's a massive expansion of the surveillance, uh, state, [48:57] which is already, uh, too powerful in my opinion. [49:02] Uh, and furthermore, that's kind of backed up by all of this artificial [49:06] intelligence infrastructure, right? [49:08] It's a huge privacy and security issue. [49:10] Yeah, no, no, this is some George Orwellian. [49:12] It's very Orwellian. [49:13] Yeah. [49:14] And if you are a Republican and you go out there and you really resist that, [49:18] you might, uh, find yourself on the side, [49:21] on the wrong side of the secure security state with all the other leftists [49:25] that ice is supposed to be rounding up, et cetera. [49:27] In your reporting, when, when you went and you interviewed all sorts of different [49:30] people, did you find that they all in, in addition to AI data centers, [49:33] they were also like, fuck these flock cameras. [49:35] Oh yeah. [49:36] Or did they think that like, no, big brother is going to keep me safe. [49:39] And these flock cameras are going to find MS 13 from where I am. [49:42] Uh, I would say people are against these flock cameras. [49:46] Understood. [49:47] In your most popular video from the perfect union, you took Bernie Sanders [49:51] around your home state, West Virginia to talk to voters. [49:54] That state was blue for 80 years and is now the second reddest in the country. [49:57] Yeah. [49:58] Um, I want to show a clip from that video of Bernie talking to a Trump voter [50:02] about healthcare as a human right. [50:03] Let's take a look. [50:04] You're, you're so reasonable. [50:06] Like they've, they've painted you in a bad light [50:08] and it actually makes me very angry because, you know, you see things and you believe it. [50:13] I'll just be honest. I haven't really seen you talk before. I haven't really like follow. [50:18] I don't follow politics that much. And so the last couple of days before this, [50:22] I started watching some of your speeches and I started like watching your interviews and I was shocked. [50:27] I was like, Oh, not as bad as they had told you, huh? [50:30] This is not how he's portrayed in the media. [50:32] Yeah, there you go. You know, you meet people face to face. [50:38] They know clearly what side you are on and you can watch. [50:43] And I've seen this all throughout my reporting. [50:45] You can just watch the decades of propaganda fade away right there. [50:49] So you have a movement at scale. Bernie's one guy and he's old. [50:54] Not to be, no, no, no, no, no, no, no shade, but he is old. He's very old. [50:58] Absolutely. He kept the flame alive forever. All right. Yeah. [51:01] But if you have a movement at scale, he's been cooking for a long time. [51:03] He has been cooking. [51:05] Let me just say this. The message of what that video is doing is I think you're establishing two [51:08] things. And this isn't common in discourse. Like, John, I want you to know this. You're [51:12] doing two things here that are very important. Number one, I think you're showing that [51:18] people are reachable. Yeah. [51:20] And people are redeemable. [51:22] Would you agree with that? [51:23] I would. Okay. [51:24] Not, and not to oversimplify, like there are some people who are not redeemable in this, [51:30] in this mega movement, but they're not the majority. [51:32] So you've obviously seen this talking point that's made its way around the internet. [51:36] You hear it all the time of there are 75 million people that voted for Trump. Leave them behind. [51:42] Fuck them. Accost them at Thanksgiving. [51:46] Like, yeah, take the noose and let them hang themselves. [51:51] What, what do you have to say to that as just a general political strategy? [51:56] You're not going to get very far in a movement to return power to working people if you don't [52:00] figure out how to get those people onto your movement, because to unwind the level of corporate [52:06] power we have, you're going to need everybody who's in the same boat as you. And it is on, [52:12] you know, the people building that working class movement to reach out to the people who are [52:18] reachable and build bonds to get them on your side, because it's strength in numbers. [52:26] The story that I see is that woman that's in that clip that we just showed. [52:30] There's a lot of people like her. [52:31] Yeah. And the saddest part is those people are being erased. [52:34] Yeah. [52:34] Their story, their perspective isn't being told. [52:37] Yep. [52:37] And I think the majority of the media's narrative is built around, I call it, [52:41] uh, I hate my brother-in-law who voted for Trump. [52:43] Yeah. [52:44] And I'm going to accost him at Thanksgiving syndrome. [52:47] That's essentially what it is. [52:48] Like there's some family member that's didn't vote the way you like. [52:52] Yeah. [52:53] That triggers something within you. [52:54] So fuck my brother-in-law. [52:55] Yeah. [52:55] And that's totally cool. [52:57] You may not like your brother-in-law. [52:58] Like that's, I understand that position. [53:00] Uh, but I think that shift in mindset has to happen around building larger coalitions. [53:07] And to me, like politics, just the way we think about politics and the way that [53:12] most conventional candidates talk about it. [53:16] I think as our problems, we have like several existential crises happening at once. [53:21] And what would you say those are like in the country? [53:24] You have- [53:24] Simultaneously, right? [53:25] Trillionaires. [53:26] Inequality is one. [53:27] You have climate, which has just totally evaporated from, but you know, I was just [53:33] breathing in wildfire smoke. [53:34] Sure. [53:35] Yeah. [53:35] You have the rapid build out of AI, uh, totally unaccountable. [53:40] Um, you have, I differentiate between Trump voters and elected people that know what they're [53:47] doing, but you have fascism on the march that's mixed in with all of this. [53:51] And you know, there are some others in there as well. [53:53] Yeah. [53:53] Right. [53:54] That's not even getting into the substance of healthcare and wages and all of this. [53:57] Right. [53:59] But that is clear to people now. [54:01] And I think when you, um, see people talking about the news and it doesn't match [54:08] the sky being on fire, people are like, what? [54:11] What are you talking about? [54:12] What are we doing here? [54:13] Right. [54:14] You know, so I think when a real one comes and sits down, uh, that's a moment where all [54:20] of this propaganda fades away and you can start to see a spark of the unreachable become reachable. [54:27] When you're really talking about, Hey, what do we do about the smoke in the sky? [54:31] What do we do that this AI data center is getting water and you're getting it out of a [54:36] pipe in a mountain? [54:36] Yeah. [54:37] Like we got to start talking about real stuff here and, and politics and media has for the [54:41] longest time just been, uh, left, right, uh, red, blue is a better term. [54:46] Just, uh, you know, course race. [54:49] Yeah. [54:49] Game of tug of less and less represents what people can feel in their life. [54:53] So we clearly have seen MAGA 1.0, right? [54:56] We're now seeing MAGA 2.0. [54:58] Let's look ahead to the midterms. [54:59] So right now, Trump's disapproval rating keeps going up. [55:03] Does that mean anything? [55:05] Uh, yeah. [55:06] You know, I think that it, it, it means he's unpopular. [55:11] Okay. [55:12] But what you do with it is a different thing. [55:14] You know, I think we look too much, uh, at Donald Trump to define what the agenda should be [55:21] and not enough at what people like Kristen are feeling down in West Virginia. [55:26] You know, getting her vote, I think has less with Donald, uh, less to do with Donald Trump [55:31] being unpopular and more to do with the fact that she has real problems. [55:35] So speak to those and that's going to open it up. [55:37] You're asking for politicians to have original thinking or a set of moral clarity [55:42] around human beings and representing their constituents. [55:45] I actually, I actually do think it's, it's too much. [55:47] It might be too much. [55:47] Because the, the incentive structure is so off. [55:51] Yeah. [55:51] Meaning the, the center of power when it comes to technology, media, wall street, [55:57] that's now all kind of lumped into one only works for a, a handful of people, AKA the donor class. [56:03] Yeah. [56:03] But I, but you're right. [56:04] I do think there are politicians that are changing that narrative. [56:07] Um, let me ask you this as an Appalachian, what is your take on JD Vance? [56:13] Oh, trash, trash. [56:16] What do you mean trash? [56:17] He sold out his people for his own political career. [56:20] Okay. [56:21] You know, he sold a narrative, uh, that we were helpless, that we chose all of the problems. [56:29] You're talking about hillbilly elegy? [56:31] Yeah. [56:31] Okay. [56:31] Yeah. [56:31] From the very, from the very jump, he kind of. [56:34] Damn. [56:34] From the moment you read the book, you were like, I'm not buying this. [56:37] Yeah. [56:37] Uh huh. [56:38] Because it was just, it was a way to use the pain of an entire population [56:43] to, uh, start his own political career where he is now delivering for the corporate [56:48] class that caused all of those problems that he wrote about. [56:52] And, um, he never really accurately challenged power in that book and instead suggested it was, [57:00] uh, people choosing to be this way. [57:02] Okay. [57:03] This is really interesting because I want to introduce a new segment on the show that we've [57:06] never done, but I've always wanted to do it. [57:07] Tracing JD Vance. [57:08] It's not that we can alt that title, but the title of this segment is called, Hey, [57:13] whatever happened with that? [57:15] Yeah. [57:15] So the first big story that you reported on for more perfect union, you remember the story? [57:18] East Palestine. [57:19] East Palestine. [57:20] Okay. [57:20] This was the railroad disaster. [57:22] Yeah. [57:23] Uh, which happened in the county that you were born in. [57:25] Yep. [57:25] Okay. [57:26] In the county. [57:26] Look at those flames. [57:28] Look at that. [57:29] Shit. [57:29] The town is under a state of emergency after 50 train cars derailed, causing a massive fire, [57:34] a half mile long, which lit up the night sky and burned for hours. [57:38] Once the news cycle passed, most Americans totally forgot about it. [57:42] Give us an update. [57:43] Whatever happened with that? [57:44] Well, the thing to realize there is that, that, uh, detonation that everybody remembers [57:50] from the news wasn't how they told us it had to happen. [57:56] What happened? [57:56] The narrative was that there are cars full of hazardous chemicals that might spontaneously combust [58:02] so that, so we are going to blow them up first so it can be a controlled detonation. [58:08] It was called the controlled burn. [58:09] Yeah. [58:09] Right. [58:10] We later found out that there was data, um, temperature and pressure data from the actual [58:16] cars in question full of those chemicals that showed the chemicals cooling down, [58:21] not spontaneously combusted. [58:23] And the railroads make the pitch that, look, this is the situation. [58:26] The temperatures are rising. [58:27] We believe that polymerization is imminent and the best course of action is to do a vent burn. [58:32] And unfortunately, while they're making these decisions, the temperatures of the cars are [58:37] actually starting to trend downward. [58:40] So that calls into question one of the major narratives of why they had to detonate that [58:44] in the first place. [58:45] Now, we don't know what the actual motivation is behind that. [58:50] This is a major rail corridor. [58:53] So the quicker it gets cleaned up, um, I imagine the better to keep these rail corridors open. [58:59] But that was a major, um, point that wasn't covered in the initial reports that people really [59:04] need to, to know about the decision to have that chemical exposure that caused, uh, acute risks that [59:11] we know about, but bigger ones that we're going to find out about over the long term. [59:15] And we might not know about yet. [59:16] So you follow up on this two years later. [59:18] Yeah. [59:19] And, and my question is, is was, was justice eventually served to, to the citizens in the [59:24] town, the people that were affected by the chemicals that were burned off? [59:29] It's really fucked up. [59:30] What, what ended up happening? [59:31] Uh, I would say justice was not served. [59:34] The, the payouts were, this is a multi-billion dollar corporation. [59:37] The payouts are capped at a, at a laughable level in the, you know, tens of thousands of dollars [59:43] in the best case scenario. [59:44] Um, you know, we talked to a man with advanced congestive heart failure, uh, half a mile [59:52] outside of the derailment zone, completely messed up his life, uh, and nowhere near the [59:58] amount of compensation that a multi-billion dollar company could provide nowhere near that. [1:00:03] And, and that's just for the people who are closest to it. [1:00:06] This is a wide ranging thing. [1:00:08] And for the most part, once you get out behind the narrow, um, bounds where they offer to pay, [1:00:15] even a little bit, people beyond that get basically nothing. [1:00:18] And, you know, we, this is on top of a legacy of this part of the country, having to deal with [1:00:26] dirty industries and a collapsed economy. [1:00:29] And, uh, you know, addiction was huge in the area is my home county. [1:00:34] I had, uh, 250 people total go to my high school. [1:00:38] Uh, almost near a dozen of them have, have died from addiction. [1:00:41] You know, this is years ago, but that's a flavor of, of what people deal with in this area. [1:00:48] And I remember there's a bar we went to when we were covering East Palestine, [1:00:52] a woman worked there and her, she lived right by the tracks. [1:00:58] Um, years before that derailment happened, her child was killed by a Norfolk Southern train. [1:01:05] They come through town. [1:01:05] They're always trying to run the trains longer, faster, and with less people. [1:01:09] That's part of the reason why this disaster happened. [1:01:13] Um, her child was killed by a train that was going way too fast. [1:01:16] They offered to pay her like $6,000 for the death of her child and said, you know, if you [1:01:23] push beyond this, we're, we're going to go after you and we're not going to pay that. [1:01:27] So be happy with $6,000 for the death, death of a child. [1:01:31] And she was telling me this, that was years before the derailment. [1:01:35] The derailment happens. [1:01:36] She lives right next to the tracks and she's exposed to this. [1:01:40] And then we find out that, um, the father of that child is someone I graduated with and he was [1:01:47] struggling with addiction, you know? [1:01:49] So that's one bartender in East Palestine with like generations of corporate negligence in this area [1:01:58] that has only continued since that derailment. [1:02:01] One of the politicians that was at the time being very vocal about this was JD Vance. [1:02:08] Yeah. [1:02:09] How are Trump voters in East Palestine feeling about JD Vance these days? [1:02:14] Do they see him as an ally or do they now see him accurately? [1:02:18] I think they, they, from that disaster, basically every politician that came through town, [1:02:29] people felt about them the same way. [1:02:32] You're here for a photo opportunity and we're not expecting much. [1:02:35] And unfortunately that was accurate. [1:02:37] Yeah. [1:02:38] And, um, but again, you can't beat something with nothing. [1:02:43] It's not enough for JD Vance to be absolute ass. [1:02:47] You have to be better than JD Vance. [1:02:49] Sure, sure. [1:02:50] That's the bar. [1:02:50] You have to actually hold Norfolk Southern accountable. [1:02:53] Hey, John, thank you so much for coming on the show. [1:02:54] Thanks for having me, man. [1:02:56] Pleasure. [1:02:56] How about the ladies and gentlemen? [1:03:07] The largest labor uprising in American history, like, and the largest armed conflict of working [1:03:12] people since the civil war in American history happened at Blair mountain in the coal fields [1:03:16] of West Virginia. [1:03:17] And this is where striking miners, multiracial, white, black, tied red bandanas around their neck. [1:03:22] And they took up arms against the government and coal companies in a strike for dignity, [1:03:27] for fair labor practices, for a lot of the things that we take for granted today that are under assault. [1:03:34] And they were called the redneck army. [1:03:37] And, uh, I think that is, uh, what the definition of redneck should be. [1:03:42] It should be rooted in solidarity in our labor history. [1:03:46] Uh, that by the way, is never taught in schools around the area because [1:03:49] that might be dangerous to the agenda of corporations. [1:03:54] Hey folks, you can now watch HMDK on Spotify. [1:03:56] If you're subscribed to Spotify premium, you don't get any Spotify ads on my video.